00:00:12 `learn Nød is French for vertex. 00:00:14 Relearned 'nød': Nød is French for vertex. 00:00:33 * oerjan pellets b_jonas with some punctuation.....!?!? 00:01:34 also that wisdom entry does not make sense. 00:02:15 oerjan: in reality, nœd is French for node 00:02:18 `forget the meaning of life 00:02:21 Forget what? 00:02:49 b_jonas: aha. 00:04:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:06:12 `learn Nœd is Norwegian for distress. 00:06:15 Learned 'nœd': Nœd is Norwegian for distress. 00:06:34 i'm not sure that's precise enough... 00:07:45 oerjan: is that the same as "not" in german? 00:07:49 `? not 00:07:51 not? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:07:56 hm probably 00:12:51 Hm... 00:13:25 `? stalagmite 00:13:28 A stalagmite is an upside-down stalctite. 00:13:37 I need a logical next item in this sequence: Either the value 1 OR the value 2; the value 1 AND the value 2; a map from the value 1 TO the value 2 00:13:46 `? stalactite 00:13:47 A stalactite is an upside-down stalagmite. 00:13:56 `? stalagtite 00:13:57 stalagtite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:14:01 `` sed -i 's/lct/lact/' wisdom/stalagmite 00:14:04 No output. 00:14:22 ah, good catch 00:14:59 oerjan: Any idea what's higher than a function (where a higher-order function is at the same level as a function)? 00:15:17 `? rap 00:15:18 no. 00:15:18 rap? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:15:19 `? scat 00:15:20 scat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:15:30 oerjan: Darn 00:15:39 `? curse 00:15:40 `? curses 00:15:40 curse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:15:41 curses? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:16:03 b_jonas: You have any clue? 00:16:23 `learn A curse is a curse, off course, of course. 00:16:26 Learned 'curse': A curse is a curse, off course, of course. 00:23:39 And a curse, it gets worse, of course, of course 00:23:43 That is, of course 00:23:47 Unless the curse 00:24:00 Is something I can't make fit to the original song 00:25:38 all we need is curse whose name rhymes with Ed hth 00:27:39 `? schaf 00:27:41 ​"Schaf" is german for "sheep". There is absolutely no relation to shachaf. 00:33:40 `slashlearn soviet russia/In soviet russia, this wisdom entry reads you. <-- um you weren't paying attention, were you. 00:33:52 i guess it was too subtle. 00:35:15 oh it was fixed 00:35:55 oerjan: yep 00:36:51 -!- centrinia has joined. 00:44:46 `? soviet russia 00:44:48 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ soviet russia? 00:44:55 `slashlearn 00:44:56 No output. 00:44:58 Huh 00:45:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming language and kitten typesetting | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Camelot (not THE PIT OF THE SOUL-EATER). 00:46:51 `quote 00:46:52 515) one time I tried cpp programming ​ it was hellish ​ maybe I should try again 00:46:54 `quote 00:46:54 `quote 00:46:54 `quote 00:46:55 `quote 00:46:56 884) What I learned on the Prolog course is that it's a good language if you need a thing that can say "No" a lot. 00:47:02 686) Stupid W|A doesn't even understand "Vatican papal density". (As far as countries go, they've got a quite high one.) 00:47:03 899) oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise 00:47:03 127) Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible) 00:47:03 hppavilion[2]: way to break the chain 00:47:19 oerjan: Wait, was there a chain? 00:47:25 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 00:48:19 hppavilion[1]: there was a principle, and i suspect you broke it although your reference is too obscure for me to know on the spot. 00:49:06 oerjan: Excellent, excellent 00:49:14 oerjan: Yes, it's definitely a reference 00:49:31 i cannot manage to google the term " `slashlearn soviet russia/In soviet russia, this wisdom entry reads you." 00:49:34 wtf 00:49:49 oh i hadn't actually c/p it 00:49:59 "pit of the soul-eater" 00:50:16 where's that from, and how did that turn into camelot 00:51:42 oerjan: I chose two random mythical locations and spewed them out onto the topic 00:51:54 oerjan: the "pit of the soul eater" itself is just a general concept 00:51:58 ic 00:52:05 well doesn't fit the theme 00:52:20 oerjan: What's the theme? 00:52:24 oerjan: Countries? 00:52:41 (as in, cities-in-the-country-in-which-you-live) 00:53:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming language and kitten typesetting | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Kinshasa (not Leopoldville). 00:54:45 oerjan: I still don't get the them 00:55:03 oerjan: Remember, I'm American and thus don't understand the rest of the world. 00:55:15 hppavilion[1]: have you considered google hth 00:55:29 oerjan: I wouldn't know what to google 00:56:20 you could, for example, google kinshasa. 00:56:23 oerjan: Oh, places conquered by other places?? 00:56:31 s/\?\?/?/ 00:56:38 not really. 00:56:53 Yeah, looks like it 00:57:04 oerjan: As in, constantinople -> istanbul 00:57:21 although that might increase the chance of it fitting, that's not the definition 00:58:17 also, google Istanbul (not Constantinople) while you're at it. 00:58:48 oerjan: Yes, I know, Istanbul (not Constantinople) 00:58:55 oerjan: I think I'm the one that started the chain, actually xD 00:59:11 oerjan: Oh, renamed cities 00:59:23 yay 01:00:03 `? o 01:00:06 o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, 01:00:39 ... 01:00:51 `? p 01:00:52 p? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:01:22 `` \? o | fmt | tail -3 01:01:23 oerjan: wait what? wasn't the first one Budapest? was that supposed to be because it got renamed from Pest-Buda or Aquincum or something? 01:01:26 problems at the same time. Hopefully not in that order, so they get \ their personal problems taken care of before the final battle. And it's \ a comedy. 01:01:36 b_jonas: i haven't seen budapest 01:01:46 I thought that was the first one.. 01:01:59 or maybe some other place in Hungary or something 01:02:01 istanbul was definitely first. 01:02:16 and i think the second was me changing it to Oslo 01:03:20 b_jonas: The first one was Istanbul (not Constantinople), which was done by me. It was California previously, before which it was Budapest, but neither of those had the not-clause 01:03:32 oh, right 01:03:32 hppavilion[1]: I see 01:03:39 i forgot about those 01:03:58 oerjan: The lack of not-clause disqualifies them from the chain 01:05:16 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Ceylon (Sri Lanka). 01:05:22 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Ceylon (not Sri Lanka). 01:05:30 b_jonas: um that's backwards 01:05:48 topic is hard 01:06:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Ceylon (not Sri Lanka). Lack of cloaks will result in immediate execution.. 01:06:47 i think this chain is jumping the shark. 01:06:52 (Yes, I get what the joke meant originally) 01:07:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Ceylon (not Sri Lanka). Lack of cloaks will result in immediate execution by shark.. 01:07:33 oerjan: Yes, and now we've repurposed said shark 01:07:43 and you didn't fix the order tdnh 01:08:06 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Dunaújváros or St. Petersburg (not Sztálingrád or Leningrad). 01:08:10 oerjan: That's b_jonas's job 01:08:19 b_jonas: :( 01:08:33 b_jonas: i think two of those words are _very_ hungarianly spelled 01:09:01 especially Dunaújváros wtf is that 01:09:24 oh 01:09:32 * oerjan swats himself -----### 01:09:43 oerjan: the "new" name of Dunapentele. it's been renamed in ancient times. 01:10:23 i don't think it was -grád, though? 01:11:30 oerjan: ah no... Sztálingrád is another renamed town 01:11:47 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Dunaújváros or St. Petersburg (not Sztálinváros or Leningrad). 01:13:21 "After the Hungarian revolution of 1956 the new government renamed the city the neutral Dunaújváros in 1961, which means "Danube New City" (New City on the Danube)." <-- where is the "new" 01:13:41 oh új 01:13:57 * oerjan assumed the ú was part of the river 01:18:27 `? try 01:18:28 try? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:18:43 `slashlearn try/There is no try. 01:18:45 Learned «try» 01:19:09 `? spice 01:19:11 spice girls/The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. 01:19:17 ... 01:19:21 ah 01:19:34 `slashlearn spice girls/The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. 01:19:36 Learned «spice girls» 01:19:39 `slashlearn spice/The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. 01:19:42 Relearned «spice» 01:19:48 `? spice 01:19:50 The Spice Girls are Pog spice, Story spice, Sarah spice, Gender spice, and Baleen spice. 01:20:04 `? kitten 01:20:06 `? kitten typesetting 01:20:08 kitten ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:20:08 kitten typesetting? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:20:12 `? kitt 01:20:13 Kitt is the singular of kitten. 01:22:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:51 `? octarine 01:23:52 octarine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:25:08 `learn Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named. 01:25:11 Learned 'octarine': Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named. 01:28:22 -!- XorSwap has joined. 01:31:43 `? 323 01:31:45 323 is a quine in McCulloch's first machine 01:31:56 `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/323 01:31:58 No output. 01:39:08 esomake 01:42:32 oerjan: Are any of McCulloch's Machines decidable? 01:43:44 i've only looked at no. 2, which i didn't get quite to the bottom of 01:44:04 i suspect it's decidable, but it got complicated enough that i'm not entirely sure 01:44:17 `learn Virgil is a prayer at dawn, as well as an ancient Italian poet who led Dante to hell so they can ask the blind transgendered seer Anchises stupid politics questions concerning contemporary noble families. 01:44:23 Learned 'virgil': Virgil is a prayer at dawn, as well as an ancient Italian poet who led Dante to hell so they can ask the blind transgendered seer Anchises stupid politics questions concerning contemporary noble families. 01:45:42 oerjan: OK, because I need a decidable-but-suitably-complex machine to troll first-year CS students 01:46:27 * oerjan has a hunch b_jonas is misspelling "vigil" 01:47:43 hm i see... 01:48:07 hppavilion[1]: no. 1 is decidable because it's a subset of 2 that doesn't reach the hard cases 01:48:29 oerjan: OK 01:49:13 for deciding mortality that is 01:51:18 -!- Froo has joined. 01:54:30 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:03:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:08:03 -!- tromp has joined. 02:11:23 I have just realized a horrible potential hole in my specification of Daoyu 02:12:39 If the program calls EXECS from the first-level program, which navigates to the top-level program data and then calls an EXECS from the top-level program data, 02:13:43 It is unclear whether the EXECS should then act on the data already present or instantiate a new child of that program-data 02:13:58 What say you? New branch or not? 02:17:31 Kaynato: Whatever is less simple 02:17:34 oerjan's razor 02:18:13 Both are particularly problematic for the programmer - however, the second one is also particularly problematic for the implementer 02:18:39 The question, I suppose, is between self-interaction (which is a tenet of the language) and getting lost in trees of branching 02:19:58 Kaynato: Keep languages focused on on the initial featureset rather than heaping new aspects of complexity onto them. 02:20:13 It's not really an addition but filling a hole 02:20:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:20:26 I realized that the functionality here was not specified but didn't know what to do with it... 02:20:47 As it stands, the current implementation just creates a new datatape when calling EXECS without checking to see if one exists, which.. 02:21:00 Leads to segfaults when it tries to follow the chain backwards 02:21:21 But so far I haven't really made programs that rely on this distinction of functionality 02:21:52 I suppose it would be imperative to have self-interaction instead of that sort of situation, then, because it would keep in line more with the rest of the language 02:22:55 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:24:19 Recently I think I have devised a generalizable format for making a state machine in the language, and am currently using this design to write a 99 bottles of beer program 02:25:31 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:28:42 `? manpage 02:28:45 manpage? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:28:49 `? womanpage 02:28:52 womanpage? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:29:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:31:32 -!- variable has joined. 02:32:09 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:42:12 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:43:51 -!- MDude has joined. 02:44:36 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 02:47:15 For far too long, power has been concentrated in the hands of "root" and his "wheel" oligarchy. We have instituted a dictatorship of the users. All system administration functions will be handled by the People's Committee for Democratically Organizing the System (PC-DOS). 02:48:39 -!- nitrix- has quit (Changing host). 02:48:39 -!- nitrix- has joined. 02:48:43 -!- nitrix- has changed nick to nitrix. 02:52:18 -!- picobit has joined. 02:57:56 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 03:10:10 Huh 03:10:15 "Co-administrator" 03:19:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:20:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:30:36 -!- iconmaster_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:37:19 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:42:42 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:47:09 -!- heroux has joined. 03:50:20 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:50:39 -!- heroux has joined. 03:55:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:57:07 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 03:57:16 -!- heroux has joined. 03:58:56 After a 99 bottles program, what would be a good thing to work on in an esolang? 04:01:10 Text adventure? 04:01:41 Did you write the truth program or Deadfish implementation? 04:02:05 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:04:31 http://www.firthworks.com/roger/cloak/index.html 04:07:15 -!- heroux has joined. 04:14:51 I wrote a truth program, so I suppose Deadfish will be next 04:15:23 No, wait, it involves squaring numbers 04:16:18 I blame myself for making a language in which arithmetic is non-trivial 04:17:10 Kaynato: prove TC 04:17:30 I would love to but I haven't the slightest idea where to start here. 04:17:38 I have a strong suspicion that Daoyu is TC, however 04:18:03 -!- XorSwap has joined. 04:18:20 TC by Equivalency... BF in Daoyu does not seem very feasible. 04:19:18 As in sensible without extreme amounts of pain and suffeering 04:20:04 Kaynato: "modeled after two or so tenets..." you've got me 04:20:38 Glad to see someone interested :) 04:22:15 If there is any way to improve the wiki page, please tell me immediately 04:23:27 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:28:01 Kaynato: it would be helpful to have an explanation of child stacks and selections 04:28:23 also... how is a new path created? 04:28:40 Hm, should I put this before or after the commands? 04:28:45 I'd say before 04:30:09 Also I don't see an example illustrating # 04:30:34 Ah, yes, I forgot about that halfway through 04:30:47 I think an explanation of child tapes and selections should cover it, though 04:33:58 is # the only way to make a child tape? 04:34:19 Yes 04:36:33 There we go 04:36:47 Kaynato: bitwise cyclic tag is a popular equivalence target for very awkward languages 04:37:25 if you can make a queue, you're halfway there 04:38:00 Hm, this might work. I could extend the 0 and 1 into 0000 and 1000, and I think it could work pretty handily 04:41:22 Is this explanation good? 04:42:38 Hmm, wait a second. Does the initial data-string also have to be arbitrary for it to be TC? 04:43:02 hm good question 04:43:42 indeed 04:44:50 "*Note*: BCT remains Turing complete even if the initial data-string is always just a single 1." 04:44:53 I was thinking that it ought to be rather decently doable, aside from that input problem, since using SIFTS, POLAR, and EQUAL, with 0 = 1000, 1 = 1001, nothing = 0000, would work well 04:44:57 Oh, very nice 04:45:40 A problem, however, is in reading in the BCT program 04:46:10 you have the option of compiling it to a Daoyu program instead 04:46:35 Ah, because if I show that every BCT program is a Daoyu program, then it is still a proof 04:46:41 yeah 04:47:19 (as long as the construction is computable, but you don't need to do it in either of the languages themselves) 04:47:54 Mhm. I've written a utility in C for Daoyu which outputs the Daoyu source to construct an arbitrary Daoyu program 04:48:32 Partially, it's to make writing the 99 bottles program even remotely sane... 04:50:00 i've written haskell utilities like that for other esolangs 04:50:24 I've recently bought a Scheme book, it seems very good 04:50:39 (see /// and Emmental) 04:51:35 Ah, yes, I would expect so indeed 04:52:31 I am not sure... was implementing Daoyu in C the right choice? 04:52:45 I think that is fine 04:53:45 C may not be the easiest language to implement interpreters in, but it does the job 04:54:06 and is fast 04:54:44 Necessary, for something like this 04:54:59 It would make sense, honestly, to make a hardware implementation for this 04:55:31 I am making a testing Daoyu program to debug some edge behavior of EXECS 04:58:29 Kaynato: btw we have a table css class called plainpres which might make your code-in-table examples prettier (removes the borders) 04:59:33 Thanks, I just put that in 04:59:44 Looks much better now :) 04:59:59 Also, would it be a good idea to comment my example code? 05:11:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:17:58 New EXECS functionality implemented and working, to the sweet sound of SEGVFAULT 05:19:48 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:04:44 Added the debug program to the page for some reason... Good night, all 06:09:13 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:17:51 -!- picobit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:20:03 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:41:20 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 06:50:40 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:53:15 -!- tromp has joined. 06:57:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:02:48 The rules for Magic: the Gathering do not currently specify what happens if you try to add a snow mana symbol into your mana pool 07:03:47 That's not a thing you can do, is it? 07:04:56 I don't know if there is any combination that would allow it 07:05:23 You also can't add Phyrexian mana to your mana pool. 07:05:33 Those are consume-only symbols as far as I know. 07:05:43 zzo38: What do you think of the new colorless mana symbol? 07:06:38 It is OK, I guess. I may have preferred a solid diamond or thicker but still hollow diamond, but it still works as is. 07:11:51 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:12:45 I don't think I like that {1} was errataed to the new symbol. 07:12:54 When producing, I mean. 07:14:56 I neither agree nor disagree. However I can note that even if it wasn't changed the effect would be the same. When the amount of colorless mana to add is large I would prefer the number though, and the rules do support it. 07:17:59 zzo38: I don't think it can happen. You can add the mana cost of a card to your mana pool, but snow mana symbols can't appear in mana costs. 07:19:17 -!- rdococ has joined. 07:41:36 -!- mroman has joined. 07:45:28 cool they're analyzing now how much dialogue in movies is said by what gender. 07:51:31 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:54:57 -!- tromp has joined. 07:59:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:02:51 what? why the hell would they do that? 08:05:42 It probably also depend what movie, too. With a SQL database listing the movies and dialogues then you can divide to make the statistics whichever one you want to calculate. 08:10:15 rdococ: Gender studies of course. 08:13:50 also I don't like when newspaper try to dumb stuff down for the reader. That just reinforces inaccurate views. 08:16:52 gender studies? 08:17:41 why would someone do gender studies? all it is is going to cause arguments and excuses for people to moan 08:17:47 it's probably rigged too 08:18:55 well... if you see some difference you can either interpret it as good or bad. 08:19:08 and convince people it is good or bad. 08:20:57 -!- tromp has joined. 08:24:54 That's why you need to provide the raw data so that you can make your own calculation by SQL codes. 08:25:54 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:31:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:32:43 that doesn't help you 08:33:03 It's a matter of how you interpret the data :) 08:33:15 25% people can speak french. 08:33:17 that's data 08:33:29 It doesn't say squat about why, how and if it's bad or not. 08:33:59 sure, if you're french you can get enraged and go yelling around "more people should speak french" 08:34:25 or you can get enraged and go yelling around "too many people speak french" 08:38:42 also I stumbled upon a video on youtube, started to watch it 08:39:26 then suddenly the speaker says "let me point out that this is not anti-jew propaganda" and then I'm like "uhm... why is he saying that" 08:39:38 then I read the title of the channel saying "worldwar three" and I'm like "uhm... what?" 08:40:04 and by stumbled I mean youtubes autoplay feature :) 09:20:23 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:28:42 `? boring 09:28:46 boring? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:38:35 It's a ring in the category of bo 09:40:30 mroman: no, it's just... I'm in a half mind to `learn boring wisdom entries are added by b_jonas to trick others to replace them by good ones 10:16:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:16:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 10:18:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 10:19:14 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:26:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:26:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:50:44 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:58:02 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:58:51 -!- carado has joined. 11:22:30 -!- tromp has joined. 11:24:37 -!- boily has joined. 11:26:58 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:27:07 -!- j-bot has joined. 11:29:59 boily: you know there are some lines in the wisdom.pdf that are so long they don't fit in the page, right? There's an url in page 13, some lisp code in page 27, another url in page 42, 11:32:22 boily: a shell command pipeline in page 49, a headword in page 53. 11:33:20 boily: but thanks for the pdf anyway, it's a nice compilation, I'm glad you're makign it. 11:33:41 b_jellonas! 11:33:56 yeah, overlong lines are the bane of my existence. 11:36:46 fungot, how do you like them overlong lines? 11:37:26 fungot is not here! :( 11:37:34 Tanelle.! 11:37:51 fizzie`: WHARGHRLGHGHBLFLGHBHRFHFHFHFHFWERRGRGGGGGGGGGRRRRHHH! 11:47:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:00:11 `? slough 12:00:19 slough /slaʊ/ or /sluː/ means a marsh; slough /slʌf/ means skin thrown off a reptile 12:00:31 /sluː/??? 12:01:40 -!- lleu has joined. 12:02:17 -!- diginet_ has joined. 12:02:28 -!- mbrcknl_ has joined. 12:02:41 and the UN denies Macedonia? what a world we live in... 12:03:49 `? ha 12:03:52 Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé egy szavad 12:04:12 -!- pelegreno_ has joined. 12:04:17 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:04:25 -!- Effilry has joined. 12:04:34 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 12:04:53 -!- int-e_ has joined. 12:05:55 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:05:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:05:56 -!- hydraz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:05:56 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 12:05:57 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:05:59 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:05:59 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:06:00 -!- pelegreno has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:06:03 -!- diginet_ has changed nick to diginet. 12:06:49 -!- hydraz has joined. 12:06:49 -!- hydraz has quit (Changing host). 12:06:49 -!- hydraz has joined. 12:07:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 12:07:06 -!- mbrcknl_ has changed nick to mbrcknl. 12:07:57 b_jonas: google translate doesn't help much. nothing lewd in there I hope? 12:08:24 (as if the Wisdom isn't already lewdfull enough as it is. reproductive organs everywhere...) 12:14:43 -!- zadock has joined. 12:17:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INTERFACE CHICKEN). 12:32:55 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:35:10 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 12:35:28 -!- fungot has joined. 12:35:36 That's been very un-stabbel. 12:36:13 @tell boily OVERFULL HBOX 12:36:13 Consider it noted. 12:38:04 -!- llue has joined. 12:40:39 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:44:13 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 12:44:22 -!- lleu has joined. 12:48:56 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 12:57:41 boily: it's Szabó Lőrincz's translation of the same part of Kipling's poem as in `? if 13:07:05 argh 13:07:15 s/incz/inc/ (duh) 13:07:15 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 13:21:49 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 13:22:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:27:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NriDTxseog 13:27:40 I generally tend to associate the west coast/california accents she makes with "mean rich arrogant non-nice white girls" 13:28:06 like totally sooo not nice... 13:30:34 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NriDTxseog#t=3m05s ) 13:30:34 (input):1:9: error: unexpected 13:30:35 Operator without known fixity: 13:30:35 ://, expected: space 13:30:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NriDTxseog#t=3m05s ) 13:30:35 ^ 13:30:38 hm. 13:30:41 :D 14:39:20 -!- tromp has joined. 14:43:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:43:47 -!- I has joined. 14:44:06 -!- I has changed nick to Guest15642. 14:52:36 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:53:46 -!- nitrix has quit (Quit: EOF). 14:54:45 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:59:41 we should write a webserver in vbscript 15:08:34 -!- nitrix has joined. 15:09:57 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:17:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:21:40 -!- greenlock has joined. 15:25:34 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 15:35:29 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:38:57 -!- spiette has joined. 15:44:11 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:59:09 -!- Reece` has joined. 15:59:17 `? font 15:59:29 `? oren's font 15:59:35 font? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:59:35 oren's font? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:00:46 -!- nycs has joined. 16:04:22 -!- Guest15642 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:20:11 `? yay 16:20:18 yay? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:20:22 what? no yay? 16:20:34 make it learn yay as YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! 16:21:38 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:29:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:37:55 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:41:42 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 16:42:49 -!- greenlock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:46:47 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:08:32 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:34 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:12:08 -!- nycs has joined. 17:14:47 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 17:19:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:25:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:56:12 -!- tromp has joined. 17:59:33 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:00:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:04:55 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:13:43 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:15:07 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:23:42 -!- gamemanj has joined. 18:25:05 Is there some magical fairy I can get that will tell me if I make stupid assumptions like "false is 0"? 18:34:14 sometimes, false is 0 18:36:23 you're making stupid assumptions 18:43:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:43:59 A combination of log and floor allows you to seriously abuse math 18:45:58 which combination? 18:47:06 gamemanj: n^. = n/n^log_k (n) 18:47:29 "log_k"? 18:47:34 gamemanj: Wait 18:47:42 gamemanj: n^. = n/n^floor(log_k (n)) 18:47:54 gamemanj: _k means "subscript k" 18:48:00 gamemanj: That's an operation that takes an integer (or real, maybe) and moves it to after the decimal point 18:48:13 Wait 18:48:17 gamemanj: n^. = n/k^floor(log_k (n)) 18:48:27 There, that's right 18:49:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:49:24 gamemanj: Typically- but not necessarily- k is the base that n is expressed in (10, oftentimes), but it can be an arbitrary real to allow for non-place-value systems 18:50:04 gamemanj: Basically, the floor(log_k (n)) means "the number of digits it takes to write (integer) n out on paper in base k" 19:00:07 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:08 -!- caradow has joined. 19:02:02 actually, the number of digits is one more than the floor(log()) 19:02:24 e.g. 10 takes 2 digits 19:02:48 and the number of Go positions takes 171 digits:) 19:03:39 tromp_: Saw that coming xD 19:05:19 -!- picobit has joined. 19:06:10 What's Pseudoscientific Notation? 19:06:26 Probably similar to scientific notation, but it uses phi instead of 10 19:07:02 base phi is p cool 19:09:23 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but also useless in hard science 19:18:17 > floor (log 0) + 1 19:18:19 -179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805... 19:18:20 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 19:19:06 > floor (log 0 / log 10) + 1 -- oops, wrong formula ;-) 19:19:08 -179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805... 19:19:37 :t logBase 19:19:38 Floating a => a -> a -> a 19:41:36 :t floor 19:41:37 (Integral b, RealFrac a) => a -> b 19:41:47 I wonder what that integer is 19:41:52 log 0 is -infinity 19:42:05 FreeFull: So the first digit of -infinity is 1? 19:42:21 hppavilion[1]: Apparently, yeah 19:42:24 :t mod 19:42:25 Integral a => a -> a -> a 19:42:35 FreeFull: I've heard there's an algorithm to calculate the nth digit of pi 19:42:41 > mod 10 $ floor (log 0) 19:42:42 -179769313486231590772930519078902473361797697894230657273430081157732675805... 19:42:44 FreeFull: What happens if you plug in infinity? 19:42:49 > flip mod 10 $ floor (log 0) 19:42:50 4 19:42:57 hppavilion[1]: The last digit of -infinity is 4 19:42:57 FreeFull: Huh. 19:43:23 hppavilion[1]: And yeah, you can calculate the nth digit of pi without having to calculate all the preceeding digits 19:43:46 hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spigot_algorithm 19:43:56 FreeFull: So what happens if you plug in infinity, assuming that you have at least OK definitions of what happens when you math infinity? 19:45:01 presumably it doesn't work 19:45:12 hppavilion[1]: It still takes an infinite amount of time to calculate 19:46:05 -!- centrinia has joined. 19:46:06 hppavilion[1]: Actually, no 19:47:09 -!- centrinia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:47:28 hppavilion[1]: Either way, it seems you can't get an answer from it if you put in infinity 19:50:21 Hm... 19:50:42 If the opposite of infinity is unfinity (the infinitessimal), rather than -infinity 19:50:54 Does the behavior of duality of operations change? 19:52:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:56:47 > prime 2 19:56:48 Not in scope: ‘prime’ 19:56:52 > isPrime 2 19:56:53 Not in scope: ‘isPrime’ 19:56:53 Perhaps you meant ‘isPrint’ (imported from Data.Char) 19:58:30 i,i is' 2 19:58:41 tfw you make a quick patch to a vm to help debug a problem in your program under the vm, and then, due to a shifting about of allocations, find the patch is now crashing the program 19:58:45 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:04:36 -!- centrinia has joined. 20:15:03 Do fandoms have a concept of "Low Orbit Ion Canon"? 20:15:31 fungot, are you cured yet? 20:15:31 b_jonas: http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 15698... you should be on a different area at msn.com... thing was also to make it not know how to program 20:15:57 great! 20:16:02 I'm glad you're back, fungot 20:16:03 b_jonas: same source as five in my case 20:16:24 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:16:48 fungot: putting absolutely every letter except "o" and "t" in esoteric. 20:16:48 gamemanj: sing me the budapest national anthem!!! o_o 20:19:55 And also asking me to sing songs I don't know. 20:20:48 fungot: Strangely appropriate 20:20:48 hppavilion[1]: i would screw it until i realized its generated :) 20:21:06 ...You were saying? 20:21:15 .....wat 20:33:16 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 20:35:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:40:55 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:42:24 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 20:44:25 -!- caradow has changed nick to carado. 20:48:01 `? FireFly 20:48:17 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 20:48:25 `? shachaf 20:48:27 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of bad punnery is named after him. 20:48:33 `? selamat pagi 20:48:35 selamat pagi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:49:10 seems I'm *still* not going to understand that anytime soon 20:49:25 `` cat < wisdom/funpun | cat | rot13 | cat | cat > wisdom/shachaf 20:49:34 No output. 20:49:38 `? shachaf 20:49:40 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. 20:49:43 much better hth 20:51:27 InspireFly 20:54:20 -!- p34k has joined. 21:11:37 -!- iconmaster_ has joined. 21:16:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:18:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:25:41 shachaf: what about impassionate bell peppers? 21:26:38 int-e: :33 < ask the purrson who added that wisdom entry hth 21:33:02 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:36:04 -!- XorSwap has joined. 21:52:27 -!- I has joined. 21:52:50 -!- I has changed nick to Guest72001. 21:55:39 -!- bb010g has joined. 21:57:10 `slashlearn oren's font/\oren\'s font is http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 21:57:26 Learned «oren's font» 21:57:49 -!- tromp has joined. 21:58:30 -!- testtesttest has joined. 21:58:33 "Powerline characters"? 21:59:25 `slashlearn lifthrasiir's font/lifthrashiir's font is https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png 21:59:32 Learned «lifthrasiir's font» 21:59:34 `? font 21:59:36 font? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:59:49 how many fonts??? 22:01:30 Ok, why is it that 3 people in #esoteric have their own fonts? 22:01:34 `slashlearn font/#esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz 22:01:37 Learned «font» 22:01:53 ...make that 4.... 22:02:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:02:04 gamemanj: because #esoteric is the international hub of esoteric programming, bitmap font making, and kitten typesetting 22:02:08 gamemanj: wait, who's the fourth? 22:02:10 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/font2x.png 22:03:27 -!- testtesttest has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:03:33 If it looks awful, that's because it's awful. 22:03:34 gamemanj: whoa, all in one wide strip. looks strange 22:04:00 It's laid out so that I can quickly write tools to put it into things. 22:04:38 hmm wait 22:04:44 I think there was one more, a vector font 22:04:51 a monospaced one with thin lines 22:04:55 in a custom format 22:04:58 whose was that again? 22:05:29 I have no idea. 22:06:51 I think it was hppavilion[1] 22:07:13 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:07:25 hppavilion[1]: can you comment? remind us to screenshots or something? 22:07:38 I recall it was horribly hinted 22:07:41 unhinted 22:07:43 something like that 22:07:49 made it look ugly 22:08:18 I suppose a monospaced font in a custom format would be the next logical step for a budding font author, unless they know how to use fontforge (note: I do not) 22:08:49 gamemanj: this had some sort of eso purpose. more than the other fonts that is 22:09:16 oh wow 22:09:31 ? 22:09:53 ah no 22:10:23 I made a font too, for rfk86. 22:10:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:10:34 Actually, come to think of it, why on earth did I paste the link to my x2 monospace font...? 22:11:34 (The x2 one doesn't have a good excuse for looking ugly!) 22:11:35 https://zem.fi/rfk86/ is written in it (if the web font stuff works out). 22:11:52 fizzie: Wow, that is... one tiny font. 22:12:14 Though it was strictly for that use, so I didn't strive for a big character coverage. 22:12:39 I think the character encoding may be... broken... 22:12:42 It's one tiny screen, 128x96. 22:12:50 "”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â" 22:13:10 ^ characters copied from the "frame" 22:13:18 stupid confusing mislabelled stuff 22:14:13 Hm. It works for me in Chrome, but it's possible it's not sending the character set. 22:14:57 It says "Attempt to use an XML processing instruction in HTML." Which makes no sense. 22:15:46 Huh, yes, it's not quite kosher. Wonder how I never noticed. 22:16:04 Well, I pressed "View Source" in Firefox and there was a big red line. 22:16:07 Then I hovered over it. 22:16:33 The content is xhtml, but it's sent as "Content-type: text/html" with no charset spec. 22:16:50 fizzie: that's common 22:16:53 Well, Firefox at least believes it's HTML, not XHTML... 22:17:07 ^ above XML tag had the error 22:17:14 It kind of predates html5 being a big thing. 22:18:48 I will turn it into something more reasonable, but later. 22:19:01 "Kittens have eaten the developer's link cable," :( kittens... i thought they were nice... 22:19:09 `? fizzie 22:19:16 and what's this about a modernist sculpture out of the pieces of calculators 22:19:24 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 22:19:32 It was actually one rather big cat. 22:19:53 Cables can kind of look like cat toys. 22:20:35 `? shachaf 22:20:38 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. The unit of fun punnery is named after him. 22:20:40 `? gamemanj 22:20:41 gamemanj? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:20:49 yay, I'm undocumented! Thank goodness 22:20:54 the world hasn't found a reason to mock me yet 22:21:37 I was undocumented for quite long too 22:21:55 ``` hg log -r wisdom/b_jonas 22:22:01 abort: unknown revision 'wisdom/b_jonas'! 22:22:10 `? b_jonas 22:22:12 b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. 22:22:15 ... 22:22:36 `` cat wisdom/b_jonas | rot13 22:22:38 o_wbanf rtl antlba gvgbxmngbf fmrzéyl. Ubyyégéeőy rtlryőer arz vfzregrx. 22:22:41 ... 22:22:59 well, I'm out of tricks 22:24:32 -!- Guest72001 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:24:50 ``` hg log --template "{date|isodate}\n" wisdom/b_jonas 22:24:54 2016-01-18 06:32 +0000 \ 2016-01-17 13:56 +0000 22:25:05 hg_jonas 22:25:19 so I was undocumented until 2016-01 22:26:53 so in other news, if you need a variety of stick figures for your web comic, and you don't want to draw them, look no further than U+16C0! 22:27:12 * gamemanj had been looking at a bitmap font and noticed weirdness in that area 22:28:49 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:40:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:40:27 -!- p34k has quit. 22:40:42 A language that looks like valid C code but has completely different semantics could be fun 22:41:20 `? b_jonas 22:41:32 b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. 22:41:34 How about: passing all values by-reference... making structures objects... and of course making "int" 1 bit in length. 22:41:47 ("boolean" would be 256-bit.) 22:42:03 someone remind me what the translation commands are 22:42:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:42:13 deprecated hth 22:42:15 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 22:42:45 mediocre! 22:43:57 Actually, maybe a C compiler that treated all operations as function calls to a standard library... and then seriously screw up that library. 22:44:43 Like making "a += b;" be more like "(*a) = a[*b];" 22:45:45 Maybe add an actual increment in the process. (because the in-language ++ would, without fail, cause a segmentation fault) 22:49:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:51:21 I was thinking more like making even basic things, like the meaning of =, *, and {} completely different 22:54:20 -!- boily has joined. 22:55:21 @tell rdococ what? why the hell would they do that? <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test 22:55:21 Consider it noted. 22:55:37 seriously, was rdococ trolling 22:55:49 bohily 22:56:21 hellørjan! 22:56:25 @massages-loud 22:56:25 fizzie said 10h 20m 12s ago: OVERFULL HBOX 22:56:43 fizzie: FIZZIELLO. OKAY. 22:56:57 ye olde overfulle hbox 22:58:10 "overfull hbox"? 22:58:18 ...?? 22:58:27 gamemanj: a very common LaTeX warning message 22:58:37 Oh. TeX. Of course. 22:59:04 gamellomanj. do you have a github account? 22:59:11 it basically means that it didn't manage to split your text into lines satisfactorily 22:59:41 boily: hi 22:59:44 boily: There is a 50% probability. Please refine your question with informative information on the nature of why it was posed. 22:59:45 (although sometimes it's small enough that you can just ignore it, anyway) 22:59:50 b_jonas: b_jellonas! 23:00:39 gamemanj: the questional informativeness pertains to the wisdomery collaborationism hth 23:00:49 gamemanj: he's trying to press gang you into sending wisdom pull requests hth 23:01:46 I wouldn't say "press gang". more like "voluntarily devote oneself for the greater good". 23:02:13 b_jonas: the Soviet Union renamed cities even in Hungarian? 23:02:15 boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping that someone will stumble on them and replace them with something better. 23:02:32 `addquote boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping that someone will stumble on them and replace them with something better. 23:02:38 1276) boily: sorry for the boring wisdom entries I added. I mostly did it hoping that someone will stumble on them and replace them with something better. 23:02:54 -!- XorSwap has joined. 23:02:58 boily: also in German hth 23:03:36 `? boring 23:03:38 boring? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:03:44 i guess that wisdom entry never got added 23:03:51 boily: no, I think the city _started_ as Sztálinváros, but then near 1985 people obsessively renamed every street and other name that could be linked in any way with the communist system or idols, and anything referring to Stalin, Marx, Lenin, or Engels definitely had to go. It's more complicated than that because some things were renamed twice, 23:04:16 `learn Boring means of little interest. 23:04:19 and some street names did get renamed once under the Soviet rule and then back to their old name after 1990 23:04:22 Learned 'boring': Boring means of little interest. 23:04:28 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:04:30 but I don't think that's happened to Dunaújváros 23:04:36 oerjan: i have a boring bank account 23:04:47 shachaf: wat 23:04:59 it's hard to get any other kind 23:05:09 b_jonas: the entries aren't boring. I am pondering about some recategorification, about langs (esoteric or not) and places (fictive or not quite exactly unfictive). 23:05:26 (in case it isn't obvious, i went for meta up there) 23:05:28 boily: _some_ of the entries aren't boring, yes 23:05:52 I mix in good ones to stop people from just using the hg log to unconditionally revert everything I do 23:06:28 oerjan: anyway i was thinking of http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.04.18 01:40:52 hth 23:06:30 I tend to disregard some reverts ^^ 23:06:51 b_jonas: i distinctly recall reading in wikipedia yesterday that Sztálinváros was renamed fairly early, long before communism ended but after stalinism did 23:06:55 oerjan: anyway the joke is that interest rates are low 23:07:05 oerjan: possible 23:07:14 oerjan: Stalin fell out of favor earlier or something 23:07:34 shachaf: ah 23:08:04 The renamings cause some confusion when the older generation mentions the old street names and young people don't understand what they refer to. 23:08:29 he fell out of favor in the fifties. it took a bit longer to change the name. 23:08:48 Back in the 90s they handled it the sane way, by leaving the signs with the old street names up still readable, but crossed out. These days there's a new wave of more stupid renamings and they just change the signs overnight, which is much worse. 23:08:58 Plus, they name everything of Széchenyi, which is boring. 23:09:32 It's not that I don't like Széchenyi or anything, but if you name everything the same, that's bad. 23:09:43 Plus, I'd like something finally named of Erdős Pál. It's high time. 23:10:34 people would compete on how many cities separate you from the one named Erdős Pál. 23:10:47 boily: no, not cities. renaming towns is silly, they should stop that. 23:10:58 I'm talking about streets or institutions. 23:11:05 * oerjan swats boily -----### 23:12:01 * boily is swatted. ow. 23:12:06 Is there a variant on Kleene Algebra that deals with translation rather than recognition? 23:12:27 Huh, my computer didn't log me out of IRC when it was closed for a long period of time 23:12:44 And a ton of messages just came through xD 23:13:01 So anyway, if you live in Budapest for long enough, you'll eventually learn some of the more important old names. Népköztársaság újta == Andrássy út; November 7. tér == Nyugati tér; there's much more but I forget 23:13:22 There was something named about Lenin I think 23:13:29 and something with Október in the name 23:13:33 hppavilion[1]: in theory you can describe a transductor with a regex that distinguishes input and output letters 23:13:42 oerjan: Ok... 23:13:50 i don't know if that's common in practice 23:14:06 oerjan: But is there something nice and pretty? Perhaps one that is based on string substitutions rather than strings? 23:14:14 it's just something that seemed obvious to me when learning about transductors 23:14:55 Like, kleene algabra is +, x (for lack of a better symbol), and *, where + alternates strings, x concatenates them, and * repeats an arbitrary number of times 23:15:04 ah yes, the internet says Lenin körút == Erzsébet körút + Teréz körút, but that probably doesn't come up much because people just call it Nagykörút anwyay 23:15:36 hppavilion[1]: i'm not sure if substitutions fit or not 23:15:47 also Majakovszkij utca == Király utca; and I was wrong above, November 7. tér == Oktogon; Marx tér == Nyugati tér; that's confusing 23:15:57 But if we use trivial substitutions (that is, take a symbol and yield a different symbol) instead of trivial matches (take a symbol, fail if it doesn't equal to some internal constant symbol), then something probably happens 23:16:02 nugatti street 23:16:10 and, ah yes, I should've known this one: Felszabadulás tér == Ferenciek tere; it's probably the one I've heared the most 23:16:51 hm apparently Nugatti is norwegian 23:16:59 I think it might be the same- x takes two symbols and replaces each based on an expression, + takes two symbols and expressions and tries applying one then the otehr 23:17:00 *other 23:17:07 like what we have instead of Nutella, i guess 23:17:10 So all we need now is Trivial Substitution Notation 23:17:17 [a/b] works 23:17:37 There was also a Gorkij fasor, but that's not a big street 23:17:50 Or maybe [a→b] 23:18:00 Maybe drop the brackets 23:18:34 oerjan: And that provides a basis for an s/// notation that /isn't/ a complete hack! Yay! 23:20:36 Then there are 9 streets currently named of Damjanics within Budapest, although most of them are small, those all had a different name before 90 but I don't remember what 23:21:04 one was close to where I grew up but I don't remember the old name 23:21:23 hppavilion[1]: [a/b] is equivalent to [a/][/b] hth 23:21:43 oerjan: True, true 23:21:48 basically, you _fundamentally_ only need an input and an output alphabet that are distinguished 23:21:49 oerjan: Well, not quite 23:22:12 oerjan: Sweden has lots of streets named "Ny gatan", a really unimaginative name because "Ny" means new 23:22:14 assuming there are no backreferences. 23:22:32 b_jonas: not Nygatan? 23:22:44 oerjan: maybe "Nygatan" yes 23:22:52 yes, Nygatan 23:23:01 oerjan: No, it isn't; [a/] matches a then appends nothing to the output, [/b] then matches the null beginning of the ny remaining input (so nothing) and adds b to the end of the output 23:23:01 or possibly Nya Gatan 23:23:09 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:23:14 another popular one is Storgatan (big street) 23:23:21 oerjan: The input and output are completely independent 23:23:33 though mostly in smaller towns :P 23:23:56 oerjan, olsner: what surprised me is that most of the street names in Sweden were so short 23:24:01 hppavilion[1]: they're not independent because you cannot match both in sequence without doing the equivalent of [a/b] 23:24:02 we have short ones too, but also normal length ones 23:24:16 short? they're all normal length :P 23:24:23 the most popular street names in Hungary are probably Kossuth Lajos utca and Kossuth utca 23:24:35 oerjan: But if you allow the input and output to not both be exactly one symbol, then it doesn't work 23:24:37 although the quite short Fő utca is also very popular 23:24:38 oerjan: Which you did 23:26:22 the place i live in trondheim (although not the street i'm on) has heaps of streets named after fairy tale figures. and the place in my hometown where my father lives has many of the same names. 23:26:28 [a/b] != [a/][/b] because [a/][/b] matches an input that has an a (failing otherwise) and adds a b to the output (no matter what), whereas [a/b] matches an a and outputs a 'b' 23:26:54 Well... 23:26:54 I suppose that in this case it won't add a b if a fails, but in the general case they can't be equivalent 23:27:00 oerjan: interesting, I don't recall having such names here 23:27:19 and of course there are plenty of historical figures that also are used in almost every town, like Ibsen. 23:27:37 right 23:27:56 Hungarian historical figures make up at least half of the street names here 23:28:11 oerjan: Of course, this doesn't allow matching groups, which makes it effectively useless 23:28:29 including the ever popular Kossuth and Petőfi, the above mentioned Damjanics, but also lots of ones you've never heared about 23:28:50 but there are lots of streets not named of people 23:28:56 do you guys have many "Church Street" or equivalent? 23:29:23 at least we don't put the same street name twice in a town, usually. 23:29:41 boily: yes, there's at least one Templom tér yonder in 19 23:29:59 oerjan: come to Montréal! if two stretches of asphalt align, even if they aren't connected, they have the same name! 23:30:25 oerjan: yeah, that would make navigation SO MUCH less confusing 23:30:58 not having people tell you "meet at Corvin" and then either you have to ask for a clarification, or if you forget, guess from their age which Corvin they were likely thinking of 23:32:21 hppavilion[1]: i don't see how they're not equivalent. 23:32:27 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:32:30 oerjan: Let me think 23:32:53 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 23:33:21 my favourite version was "meet at Corvin, in the tram stop in the direction of Buda" (both directions of tram 6 eventually cross the Danube to go to Buda, and both Corvin are on the tram line 6) 23:34:15 Budapest is a Lost City. 23:34:45 boily: only when it's women who can't navigate and can't explain what they want or what they see or where to go try to tell you something 23:34:58 boily: real men can give unambiguous descriptions easily 23:35:17 and use a map, and not search for "Budafoki út" in Pest 23:35:23 boily: Kirkeveien/Kirkegata are reasonably common i think. it's even used in the norwegian version of monopoly. 23:35:51 b_jonas: you sound like you speak from experience... 23:36:21 oerjan: checking the map, it says there are lots of streets named "Templom" something in Budapest, not only the one in 19 I knew about 23:36:29 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:37:09 boily: I've been living here all my life, and still love the city, despite its faults 23:37:12 so yes 23:37:33 although if the government manages to ruin Városliget like they're planning then I'll be VERY upset 23:38:11 boily: real men can give unambiguous descriptions easily <-- they just can't ask for them? 23:39:03 maybe women are experts at making maps 23:39:07 oerjan: I can try to ask, yes. In the case when there is a small finite list of possibilities like "at Corvin, in the tram stop towards Buda" then definitely. 23:39:18 oerjan: but when it's crystal ball territory with no starting point, then no, I can't really ask 23:39:34 b_jonas: i'm just expanding your gender stereotypes hth 23:39:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:39:49 you know, it's like those newbies on IRC who ask like "my program doesn't work, and I didn't change anything" and you can't get anything specific from them 23:39:56 (rdococ got me a bit in the mood) 23:40:30 oerjan: would you say rdococ engendered the mood 23:40:53 oerjan: maps are a trouble too. I like the maps published by Topográf, because they're more readable than the more popular alternatives, but then they stopped making it (probably around the time people started using all the fancy digital touchscreen GPS stuff instead of paper maps) 23:40:56 moodococ. 23:41:05 so now there are no good enough maps of the town 23:41:36 * oerjan enswats shachaf -----### 23:41:46 I dunno how that works at your place 23:41:51 paper maps that is 23:42:05 I know it costs a lot to produce good ones and keep them up to date 23:42:07 but still, it's sad 23:42:11 i dunno i haven't used one in years 23:42:22 I wish they made a better one 23:42:45 last i looked for a place, i just used google maps. 23:42:58 although I do have to admit the Cartographia map (which is the most popular brand, and already was when Topográf was still in business) has improved, it's not as horrible as it used to be 23:43:31 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:43:32 I should get myself a new map 23:43:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FUMIGATING CHICKEN). 23:48:06 then suddenly the speaker says "let me point out that this is not anti-jew propaganda" and then I'm like "uhm... why is he saying that" <-- aka "I'm not a racist but ..." which reminds me of http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/zelda/?1460930400&d=-1 23:48:16 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 23:48:48 wait since when does mroman idle 23:49:10 i,i "I don't qualify my sentences, but..." 23:50:43 (btw that comic is not actually zelda. they're running two comics alternatively in the same spot and have confused themselves again.) 23:50:59 not that this probably matters unless you're swedish 23:51:26 (it's "lilla berlin") 23:54:20 of course the two comics have a lot in common, being extremely liberal-themed and made by swedish women 23:54:35 (from an american viewpoint, anyway) 23:54:54 (in sweden this is probably just the default :P) 23:57:27 . o O ( Ah am monologuing? -- Count Dookû, Darths & Droids ) 23:58:53 oerjan: we're still here 23:59:03 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:59:25 i don't think the number of listeners matters for monologuing 23:59:35 yeah