< 1461628923 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who works with CSGs? < 1461628923 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461628991 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: People who deal with Turing Machines < 1461629029 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've dealt with Turing Machines. I have not used CSGs for anything meaningful that I remember. < 1461629040 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd imagine they mostly just work with SPACE(O(n)) if they care about the class < 1461629083 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's such an unwieldy model of computation < 1461629105 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Turing Machines recognize the CSGs, IIRC < 1461629111 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Also, I'm doing something eso with it < 1461629129 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: turing machines recognize everything < 1461629137 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can compute < 1461629142 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, right < 1461629147 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then what recognizes the CSGs? < 1461629154 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :linearly bounded TMs < 1461629167 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I've done some string rewriting which actually comes quite close. < 1461629187 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Really? I would think that you would need a TM For the CSGs < 1461629206 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: i said TM < 1461629211 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, then what system generates the ECTs (Every Computable Things) < 1461629219 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well yeah < 1461629224 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TMs without restriction < 1461629235 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461629253 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What thing analogous to BNF is used for the Unrestricted Grammars? < 1461629254 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/linearly bounded/linearly bounded memory/ < 1461629291 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: unrestricted grammars _are_ analogous to BNF. < 1461629292 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but string rewriting will take you directly to Chomsky type 0) < 1461629309 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought BNF was the CFGs < 1461629329 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(string rewriting = semi-Thue systems) < 1461629330 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ...are you incapable of understanding the word "analogous"? < 1461629338 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I might b < 1461629339 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1461629356 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION getting annoyed, sorry < 1461629399 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought that a and c are analogous (with some implicit connection b and d) if a:b::c:d < 1461629402 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: i think unrestricted grammars have the same problem as int-e noted for CFG: no one _really_ uses them because they don't have nice properties for actual parsing < 1461629408 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1461629411 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CSG < 1461629412 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fair enough < 1461629445 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But if they the only thing at your disposal is grammars, it's better to have a URG than a CFG < 1461629467 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want to use it to describe computations, sure < 1461629501 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461629503 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I do < 1461629516 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends what you mean by "better". there is the usual duality where better at being powerful means worse at being analyzable < 1461629529 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1461629553 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Remember Thoof? I'm basically just doing that again, but trying to make it cleaner < 1461629634 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I should use decidable grammars. That seems less stupid < 1461629639 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: there are some who think that the real problem with answering the P vs. NP question is that no one has a real grip on how powerful P is. and CSG is almost as bad. < 1461629684 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: the thing is, it's know that equivalence of context-sensitive grammars is undecidable. of course you can try to decide it for as many cases as possible, but to sell this, scientifically, you need a compelling reason why this question is of practical interest, I think, because theoreticians will not care much about methods that only work in some cases. < 1461629728 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It's a proof assistant. Proving their equivalence is the job of the user, not of the program. I just want to know what tools to include. < 1461629761 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461629784 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I bet you'll find publications on testing equivalence of CFGs, even though the problem is undecidable, precisely because there's some practical interest. In fact: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/sumitg/pubs/oopsla15-edu.pdf < 1461629800 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what I need is a concrete machine that is a decider (machine that always halts) < 1461629834 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(concrete as in "some sort of metaphor that you can actually think about and manipulate") < 1461629895 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang idea I had a while back: a language where the only data structure is strings, which are manipulated character-wise < 1461629911 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except at all points, each variable has to contain a real English word or the program crashes < 1461629924 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is I can't see a way to make it TC without losing the spirit behind the language < 1461629972 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why make it TC? Why not make it Total? < 1461630029 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "naturally" it ends up as a finite state machine < 1461630042 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461630042 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those normally allow uninteresting translations of programs via hardcoding the output < 1461630054 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1461630062 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take input it's more interesting but even then I suspect you'd just use two similar words as 0 and 1 and have all your variables as booleans < 1461630136 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1461630314 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461630316 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there a lot of systems that we just don't know if they're turing complete yet? < 1461630404 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, systems that can loop finitely or infinitely (and where it's not trivial to determine how long it'll loop), and where the amount of info in it can increase infinitely or decrease, but there are no proofs of turing completeness or non-completeness < 1461630641 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1461630679 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like the collatz conjecture and the mandelbrot fractal and so forth < 1461630702 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly some kinds of recursive equations or summation < 1461630825 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lychrel numbers < 1461630840 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: probably. < 1461630866 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461630916 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kinda wondering if most of them are turing machines but are just excessively hard to write a program in < 1461630976 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it's possible to have a system that has most trappings that would make a turing machine (infinitely growable state, unpredictable halting) but are just too chaotic to be turing complete < 1461631031 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously you cannot do it with a finite number of variables, which means you need some kind to structure an unbounded number of them. < 1461631043 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kind of way < 1461631053 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've been wondering whether English actually has infinitely many words < 1461631060 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even if it did, they'd follow predictable patterns i think < 1461631065 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an uninteresting way < 1461631077 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, you need unboundedly many variables, but in an interesting way somehow < 1461631102 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the first obvious idea is that arrays of variables need to be grammatically correct phrases < 1461631126 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a better dictionary for that < 1461631129 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it a crosswords thing < 1461631134 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fizzie probably has one, so that's not insurmountable < 1461631138 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :english doesn't meaningfully have infinite words < 1461631142 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461631149 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines an array full entirely of "buffalo" < 1461631155 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because your morphemic construction is too limited < 1461631160 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1461631193 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I guess you could do it in a polysynthetic language < 1461631219 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: you can argue the case for tautonyms < 1461631221 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzz, etc. < 1461631232 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with a verb -> nominalize -> incorporate into a verb -> nominalize -> incorporate into a verb -> nominalize -> etc... < 1461631237 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically just unary that can't get shorter than three < 1461631272 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1461631307 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up tautonums < 1461631323 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin animal names that have the same name twice or more? < 1461631356 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word's basically been generalized to mean any word that contains a repeating section < 1461631371 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do that in english < 1461631400 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1461631403 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it's like the language with the least reduplication morphemes in the world < 1461631420 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: *MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA* < 1461631446 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461631490 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok that might have been a hyper-hyper-bole :3 ) < 1461631537 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so following the crossword idea, what about this: There's an infinite grid, initially populate with an 'a' at the origin. There's an operation that takes an english word and tries to insert it into the crosswords; it would try to insert the word in some fixed order that moves out from the origin, and succeed if the word could be inserted (overlapping with at least one existing word, filling at... < 1461631543 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...least one space, and preserving the property that all vertical and horizontal words are proper english words... like scrabble). You get back one bit of information, namely whether the operation succeeded or not. < 1461631574 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's an awkward write only storage... but not clearly insufficient to make things TC. < 1461631600 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, append only is what I wanted to say. < 1461631656 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that swat is for something in the distant past tdnh < 1461631724 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: behold the long arm of the swatter < 1461631725 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is possibly on the bottom end of the scale for how modular its words are < 1461631739 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm pretty sure it is < 1461631751 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1461631794 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the combination of tons of loanwords and low complexity of the verb grammar and noun grammar < 1461631838 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sics augur on mad < 1461631851 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was just feeling evil < 1461631901 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't that how you normally feel? < 1461631952 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERM < 1461631980 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461632074 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, foreshadowing (GG)... < 1461632088 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1461632147 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what it means to say that a language's words are modular < 1461632186 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for infinitely many english words, english morphology allows cycles < 1461632200 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are infinitely many words, but not in a hugely interesting way < 1461632222 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORING < 1461632224 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sprachbaukastenträume (dreams of construction kits for languages) < 1461632255 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's a language construction kit out there < 1461632280 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461632297 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't quite the point I was trying to make < 1461632323 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1461632328 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1461632349 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :språkmeningsutvekslingskatastrofe < 1461632367 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the point is about german, dont be fooled. german "very long words" are actually multiple words, but the orthographic convention is to not use spaces < 1461632385 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1461632390 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammatically, they're not single words, just compound words < 1461632412 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has them in abundance just like german but english orthography for compounding is to use spaces < 1461632442 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: give me an example of english cycle < 1461632464 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: -ish is Noun -> Adjective, -ness is Adjective -> Noun < 1461632519 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i think my evil has gone too far. < 1461632532 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461632544 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could drive space ships with it, but I see that as a feature < 1461632558 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is -nessish possible? < 1461632567 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :loch nessishness < 1461632569 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nearly as bad as the space ships driven by bad news (--> Hitchhiker) < 1461632574 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: yes < 1461632622 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: but the meanings of these are tricky, because -ness creates an abstract noun, so we get increasing fuzziness and it rapidly becomes weird < 1461632628 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but grammatically its fine < 1461632659 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nessification < 1461632697 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there's always anti- :) < 1461632710 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The point was that compound nouns are *very* modular. < 1461632712 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti^n-X is always fine, of course < 1461632727 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i still dont know what modular means in this context :) < 1461632729 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-co-nuts. < 1461632768 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :modular things can be combined more or less freely, but also taken apart. < 1461632780 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, agglutinative, then < 1461632786 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or agglutinating < 1461632801 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to fusional < 1461632818 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461632843 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is on the agglutinating end of the spectrum but it has some places where fusional morphology is found < 1461632858 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461632996 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1461632999 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'd call english analytic < 1461633018 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the parts that aren't analytic, fusional < 1461633050 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :agglutinating generally implies that your compounding is relatively clean-cut < 1461633057 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*earendel@unaffiliated/earendel < 1461633057 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no KICK #esoteric :earendel < 1461633075 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1461633087 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461633095 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1461633106 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really the case for english (or any european language really) < 1461633150 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: before today, i'd _almost_ started thinking he'd changed his ways. < 1461633198 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I know him anyways < 1461633272 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: old channel troll who keeps coming back. this time it took longer before i noticed it was him (in fact i got tipped) < 1461633285 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1461633360 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461633401 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that was a while ago... he was behaving so well i decided to stay silent. < 1461633643 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461633900 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1461633933 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461634002 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what happened today? < 1461634044 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :two unecessary outbursts using foul language, as far as I can tell. < 1461634052 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1461634055 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1461634057 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah* < 1461634068 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(boily uses fowl language all the time and he's still allowed here, how fair is that) < 1461634078 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs. < 1461634082 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kickbans int-e < 1461634117 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :I speak clicks, whistles and clucks < 1461634124 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair boily only uses it when he quits < 1461634128 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't kick him anyway < 1461634133 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat < 1461634135 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three distinct bird languages < 1461634144 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each with their own grammar and syntax < 1461634145 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foal language on the other hand... < 1461634150 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: no honks? < 1461634159 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: cow.org/csi < 1461634168 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nahh I don't associate with geese < 1461634180 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :My chicken friends are as low as I'll stoop < 1461634193 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461634219 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I seem to remember earendel participating in discussion at some point. < 1461634260 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I dont have flash plugins on my phone < 1461634272 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: Oh, that's flash? < 1461634276 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: I never noticed xD < 1461634283 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: It's the "Instant CSI button" < 1461634306 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1461634325 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What paradigms have never been used for golphing? < 1461634493 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461634578 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461634630 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember hearing the word "entonces" in spanish < 1461634713 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1461634727 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it means something like "so then" < 1461634748 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461634840 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: english is analytic too. analytic is about syntax, agglutinating is about morphology < 1461634845 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461634862 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for compounding, agglutinating generally isnt about compound words. its about affixes < 1461634886 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and english affixes have very well-defined borders < 1461634908 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not compared to, say, japanese < 1461634920 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say they're about the same on that < 1461634939 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess chinese which is hard to beat < 1461634947 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chinese has basically no affixes < 1461634955 0 :fowl!fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a programming language but am afraid to show it off because it looks a lot like smalltalk < 1461634955 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so chinese isnt a good comparison < 1461634975 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english might be marginally more prone to morphophonological processes than japanese is, tho < 1461634991 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least standard japanese. i suspect dialects have more morphophonology going on < 1461635026 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461635089 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, chinese has tons of compound words < 1461635097 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I guess isn't really the same as affixes < 1461635119 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1461635138 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about -zi words, does -zi count as an affix? < 1461635166 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are maybe a handful of affixes in chinese, but very few < 1461635186 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, -ren compounds < 1461635194 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be surprised if there were more than affixes tho < 1461635222 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1461635226 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than 20 affixes < 1461635261 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could say that chinese affixes aren't pure affixes, they also have a vocabulary meaning < 1461635303 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461635312 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether its an affix or not is determined entirely by whether its bound or not < 1461635324 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could say that about a lot of chinese's grammar, most of its grammar words also have a vocabulary meaning < 1461635329 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how it does prepositions < 1461635393 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well prepositions are words < 1461635405 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition :) < 1461635422 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they're definitely free words in chinese < 1461635424 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Huh. I seem to remember earendel participating in discussion at some point. <-- yes, he seemed to be making an effort a few times. < 1461635436 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, deciding whether stuff is bound in chinese is harder, because stuff doesn't really bind phonologically in phonological words < 1461635467 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What paradigms have never been used for golphing? <-- . o O ( XML? ) < 1461635472 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :morphemes are really easy to split in chinese, words are hard < 1461635487 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindof the reverse situation of a typical european language < 1461635584 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Something more like... geometric? < 1461635606 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461635647 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm working on a programming language but am afraid to show it off because it looks a lot like smalltalk <-- ais523 has the same problem with Feather *ducks* < 1461635654 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1461635698 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now you're using fowl language < 1461635712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, that might be ambiguous < 1461635712 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: phonological fusion isnt a good indication of boundness < 1461635721 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple-biguous < 1461635732 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has lots of inter-word phonological processes (as do many, if not most, languages) < 1461635735 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about "*ducks*" but in retrospect "Feather" is a fowl language and so is fowl's language < 1461635744 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur : I guess the case for english being agglutinating is helped by the fact that many of the typical european more messy morphemes have been dropped < 1461635745 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boundness is a morphosyntactic issue < 1461635782 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: indeed. english is mostly agglutinating. fusion and suppletion are (universally, i think) more common as the words are more common < 1461635782 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most (but not all!) of the weird germanic plurals have been dropped < 1461635798 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :case is mostly gone < 1461635801 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so english has lots of suppletive and fusional morphology but its in the highly common words < 1461635808 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same is true of turkish, which is canonically agglutinating < 1461635810 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1461635825 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppletive-anything argues against agglutinative < 1461635833 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not an either or < 1461635847 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably no language, or very few, is strictly one or the other < 1461635851 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also english has a lot of irregular verbs < 1461635856 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :numerically < 1461635860 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461635863 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't very irregular < 1461635866 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are lots of them < 1461635886 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the formation of the past and the past participle < 1461635889 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some debate about whether they're truly irregular or not, actually < 1461635900 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho all of them are "irregular" in morphologically interesting ways < 1461635910 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like using non-concatenative morphology, which is always fun < 1461635912 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if english was really an agglutinative language it would have a lot fewer < 1461635916 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1461635927 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese has like 3 irregular verbs overall < 1461635950 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, english is on the agglutinating end of the spectrum, not that it's uniformly agglutinating < 1461635962 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-concatenative = not agglutinative < 1461635982 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that.. is also up for debate :) < 1461635989 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say compared to the world mean agglutinativeness, english isn't that agglutinative < 1461636007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1461636012 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be true! < 1461636022 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proportionally, english is majority agglutinating tho < 1461636025 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: WMA is the best statistic < 1461636048 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to count, too, because many english words are partially fusional partially agglutinating < 1461636056 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most english inflections are somewhat concatenative but that's also true of fusional languages < 1461636134 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461636142 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally, even in regular verbs, english is fusional, because like almost all indo-european languages, tense and person are coded in one morpheme < 1461636154 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if its a regular affix < 1461636171 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know if there's a good way to quantify these things, tbh < 1461636173 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally the average fusional language has tons of inflections that are basically concatenating something but there complications like suppletive etc < 1461636191 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good description of english < 1461636203 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has less inflections than other european languages overall < 1461636217 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the inflections it does have aren't that regular < 1461636250 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I see it as a 2d classification < 1461636261 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one dimension is amount of inflection < 1461636271 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other dimension is how regular that inflection is < 1461636282 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i understand, but i mean, it's hard to measure things < 1461636299 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, look, english has a lot of regular verbs, right < 1461636302 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amount of inflection goes: isolative - analytic - synthetic - polysynthetic < 1461636324 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that use the -s affix for 3rd person present tense, yeah? < 1461636336 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :singular, in particular < 1461636341 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s = 3.sg.pres < 1461636348 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then agglutinative means that the inflections are very regular and concatenative, and fusional means that the inflections are not very regular and concatenative < 1461636372 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do we measure the contribution of this affix, which is fusional? < 1461636381 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur : yes but it interacts with tense < 1461636387 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an affix, so it should contribute positively to an agglutination measure < 1461636397 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its fusional so it should contribute positively to a fusion measure < 1461636406 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's suppletive for like 2 or 3 verbs (to be, to have...) < 1461636416 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461636449 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i think defining these metrics is non-trivial. im sure it can be done, in various ways, but its hard to know how to compare languages beyond intuition < 1461636463 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, plural is -s but there are also some suppletive plurals < 1461636493 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if english was agglutinative it wouldn't have the suppletive plurals < 1461636507 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, you cant just say "if english was agglutinative" < 1461636514 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a spectrum < 1461636515 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1461636524 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as agglutinative as turkish or japanese < 1461636545 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other languages typically called 'agglutinative' < 1461636552 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if english was as agglutinating as those languages it would be like those languages < 1461636588 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is a silly conversation < 1461636641 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is agglutinating if you compare it to, say, german, but that's like calling trump 'poor' by comparing him to bill gates < 1461636669 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461636689 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say english is more like turkish and japanese than it is like french in terms of agglutination < 1461636689 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I object to calling any european language agglutinative < 1461636708 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but english is more isolating than turkish and japanese < 1461636728 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is also slightly more analytic than french < 1461636731 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :english nominal morphology is especially agglutinating < 1461636747 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1461636755 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its highly agglutinating < 1461636771 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivationally, that is. the inflectional morphology is too but there's not much of that so < 1461636799 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivationally it has all sorts of kinks due to the fact that the derivations happened in many different languages < 1461636830 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinks are not an obstacle to being agglutinating < 1461636850 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, again, unless we have a measure of agglutination, there's only subjective intuition here < 1461636868 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've seen a classification of this < 1461636956 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461637012 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like (group - word - morpheme) (syllable - phoneme - feature), figure out which units on the left side line up with borders of which unit on the right side < 1461637019 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461637057 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461637058 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an especially clean-cut language like chinese, the lining up happens on the smallest meaning unit (morpheme) and the largest phonetic unit (syllable) < 1461637108 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so chinese can be said to have groups [ words [ morphemes=syllables [ phomemes [ features < 1461637143 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slightly less clean cut language like japanese has groups [words [ morphemes [ syllables [ phonemes [ features < 1461637238 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that as < 1461637283 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461637295 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) what's the smallest unit of meaning that syllables don't straddle (2) what's the smallest unit of pronounciation that morphemes don't straddle < 1461637327 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese is (1) morphemes (2) syllables < 1461637476 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1238 :) < 1461637478 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mongolian is less clean - syllables straddle morphemes but not word boundaries, morphemes straddle phonemes but not features < 1461637502 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461637592 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is less clean still - syllable match word boundaries, morphemes straddle everything including features < 1461637626 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :french is the least clean and can have multiple words in a single syllable, and morpheme boundaries are hard to isolate < 1461637707 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ok that sucked and didn't come across, sorry < 1461637753 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it's not a very good classification for agglutinativeness anyways (which doesn't match very well with this and is much more accurately described as "irregularity" I think) < 1461637785 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461637867 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461638072 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461638359 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1461638606 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461638692 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1461638841 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ent0nces: you should fix your connection hth < 1461638883 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461638893 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tdnh < 1461638895 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was pretty good timing < 1461638941 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what happened to afk < 1461638949 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i was afk hth < 1461638977 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shockingly didn't last longer than until i'd made some food. < 1461639161 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461639201 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ent0nces: you should fix your connection hth < 1461639214 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( 3, 2, ... ) < 1461639444 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@67-5-178-237.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1461639601 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict entonces automatically rejoins every 9 minutes, and then pings out as if eir client doesn't respond to pings at all. < 1461639637 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1461639710 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :ent0nces!*@*$##fixyourconnection < 1461639716 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1461640016 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461640091 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, your count was way off < 1461640280 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1461640320 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: note that this is after last rejoin, not after pinging out hth < 1461640330 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 3, 2, ... < 1461640333 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461640358 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG I CAN HOLD A 1 OKAY? < 1461640365 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ent0nces doesn't respond to ctcp version < 1461640373 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he/she/it is online right now; I'm guessing it's a bot) < 1461640396 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a bot not programmed to respond to pings? makes sense. < 1461640409 0 :MDude!?@? NICK :MDream < 1461640441 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw i snapped and banned *!*canaima@* yesterday hth < 1461640460 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am starting to wonder if all of these canaimans are one troll. < 1461640496 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1461640508 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been canaimans who joined briefly, then left. < 1461640533 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a man, a plan, a canaima < 1461640537 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway one of them (with several nicks) did get on our nerves. < 1461640549 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i an actor? rot, canaima < 1461640550 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I feel the ban is justified but a redirect would make sense < 1461640555 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have no idea where to redirect to < 1461640573 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461640718 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i an ache, eh, canaima? < 1461640758 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461641085 0 :ent0nces_!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461641092 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: foiled < 1461641107 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461641152 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1461641261 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :htf did that happen, e's not used a _ before... < 1461641267 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1461641289 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -b :ent0nces!*@*$##fixyourconnection < 1461641293 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also a different host < 1461641307 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it looks like they're changing host regularly < 1461641315 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one was used before < 1461641317 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't put in the host anyway < 1461641321 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461641332 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe you can help me make canaima palindromes twh < 1461641363 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :amianacorn.ro [canaima] < 1461641375 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i got as far as "am i an accordion, noid roc canaima?" < 1461641402 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually then i tried adding para and things went even more downhill < 1461641414 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1461641536 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461641538 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461641551 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1461641554 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you didn't reban hth < 1461641563 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461641567 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was hoping the connection issue had been fixed < 1461641581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you start hoping that now < 1461641606 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it hasn't pinged out < 1461641619 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't recognize that it's already on < 1461641695 0 :ent0nces_!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461641760 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if a new one arrives at :41 or so < 1461641795 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ent0nces_ only started pinging out when ent0nces joined < 1461641823 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1461641869 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started a couple minutes earlier < 1461641874 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i an acronym? YNOR, canaima? < 1461641944 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"am i an accumulator? rot, alum UC" -- canaima < 1461641993 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i an acrobat, a tab or canaima? < 1461642065 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :minute of truth < 1461642066 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better tdh < 1461642177 0 :ent0nces_!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461642326 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1461642327 0 :ent0nces!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461642328 0 :ent0nce__!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461642349 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :ent0nces*!*@*$##fixyourconnection < 1461642357 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1461642362 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1461642364 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1461642374 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels trolled < 1461642379 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1461642394 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -b :ent0nces*!*@*$##fixyourconnection < 1461642421 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :ent0*!*@*$##fixyourconnection < 1461642433 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1461642518 0 :ent0nces_!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1461642813 0 :ent0nce__!~ent0nces@104.238.194.236 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461644533 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461644734 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1461645032 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell is the government sending me so much money?! < 1461645073 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not unemployed or anything < 1461645110 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tax refund of seven thousand dollars, what the hell?! < 1461645126 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461645224 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a calculation mistake < 1461645278 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they sent me a check. I hope not everyone's taxes were calculated like that, our overnment would go bankrupt < 1461645355 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461645471 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07LOLCODE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46846&oldid=44697 5* 03173.233.38.21 5* (+76) 10 < 1461645729 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1461645762 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, never mind. apparently it's because I only worked from this fall this year, so my income was very low on an annual basis, or something... < 1461645778 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461645781 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would do it < 1461645848 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: how can your government go bankrupt if they can make more CAD whenever they want hth < 1461645916 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well they have to buy the aluminum the loonies are made of, lol < 1461645991 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :toonies > loonies < 1461646024 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm why doesn't the US government pay off its debt by printing more money < 1461646049 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we always hear about trillion dollars of national debt on tv < 1461646051 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The coin is manufactured using a patented distinctive bi-metallic coin-locking mechanism.[2] The coins are estimated to last 20 years." < 1461646052 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would probably trigger hyperinflation < 1461646060 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. longer than the patents < 1461646073 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: well, what's wrong with having debt < 1461646152 0 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mhkskwroydwhhegj JOIN :#esoteric < 1461646250 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if US's problem is really that much debt < 1461646278 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's better to pay for things up front than to borrow money < 1461646289 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly a canard from the republicans specifically in the US case < 1461646299 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I'm not saying that debt is good < 1461646300 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: why? < 1461646301 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1461646344 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashing tax rates on the rich and starting a trillion dollar war on Iraq then complaining about debt..... < 1461646379 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look at this we're having deficits we have to slash education and welfare! < 1461646380 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: borrowing money is like stealing bread from your future sel < 1461646398 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1461646412 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you borrow money and then spend it on infrastructure < 1461646436 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have, say, 1 billion in debt but also 1 billion in infrastructure < 1461646476 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right whereas the us spent trillions destroying other countries' infrastructure < 1461646664 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I don't understand < 1461646682 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how people who tried to get us into yet an other war in Iran < 1461646698 0 :mad!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can live without any guilt over that < 1461647163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: but a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow < 1461647328 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no it's not < 1461647352 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar in ten years < 1461647374 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461647433 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seriously depends on what happens in the next ten years < 1461647556 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you borrow money for ten years you are taking a large risk that you may become unemployed, etc and be unable to pay the intest, then get charged large fees by evil rich people, and end up destitute < 1461647561 0 :cnr!~connor@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1461647601 0 :cnr!~connor@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1461647676 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to pay today and be a free man, than to promise payment and be reduced to a slave < 1461647714 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about interest < 1461648037 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh, evryone I've ever seen offering me some loan? < 1461648107 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said a dollar today is worth more than a dollar in ten years < 1461648116 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 99 cents today < 1461648306 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1461648321 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language based on request-response rather than a single entity < 1461648331 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but a dollar is worth more if you have $1000 than if you have $100,000 < 1461648496 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? what does that have to do with it? < 1461648599 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1461648625 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd better be sure that you'll still have the money in 10 years, < 1461648686 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else the $100 loan you took out 10 years ago may be making you lose your home < 1461648722 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1461648844 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461648881 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461648908 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iow, a dollar today is only *likely* to be worth more. it's encumbered by great risk < 1461648939 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the risk < 1461648958 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you'll lose your ability to pay it < 1461649054 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461649165 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, lose your ability to pay it and still pay for rent, food and transport < 1461649279 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think borrowing money is such a bad deal then you should get into the business of lending money < 1461649543 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to make money by honest and moral means < 1461649641 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought your job involved writing software? < 1461649808 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1461649877 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't involve exploiting my position as a holder of substantial money to extract more money from people who have less of it than me < 1461649986 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get to wear a fancy hat < 1461650037 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wear an ushanka in cold weather does that count? < 1461650819 0 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@24.237.158.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1461651789 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1461652351 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1461652361 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461652362 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461652649 0 :Elronnd!?@? NICK :b1ackpenguin < 1461652649 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461652754 0 :b1ackpenguin!?@? NICK :Elronnd < 1461653378 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you ping arin.ga ? < 1461653448 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1461653466 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 20999ms < 1461653498 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i messed up something because apache is up but i can't ping it < 1461653512 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the test < 1461653519 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1461653920 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe the 23rd packet would've made it < 1461653955 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE WILL NEVER KNOW < 1461654804 0 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-87-58.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461655074 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1461656050 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461656313 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461656710 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461657134 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461658812 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1461663253 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461663495 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461667209 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, does jq count as an esoteric language when used for something besides its intended purpose? < 1461667250 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about it, the raw input/output and null input options argue against that. < 1461669903 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461670344 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461670496 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461670766 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461671564 0 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461671924 0 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1461672361 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461672747 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:2da6:350b:6c1:594a JOIN :#esoteric < 1461673039 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: WAITING CHICKEN < 1461675230 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:2da6:350b:6c1:594a QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461676078 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1461676488 0 :MDream!?@? NICK :MDude < 1461677777 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461678046 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461679834 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1461680343 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461680610 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461681153 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1461681322 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen gregor < 1461681359 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen gregor ever < 1461681381 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1461681876 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461682364 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461682623 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461683464 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1461683703 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Core War tournament at DEF CON this year http://silverwingedseraph.net/def-con-24-0x20th-anniversary-core-war-competition < 1461684639 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1461684703 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461685739 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we have an RFC 1345 encoder script in HackEgo? It would be sufficiently eso. < 1461685982 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` jq -n '0 | recurse(. + 1)' < 1461686000 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: jq: command not found < 1461686366 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1461686374 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -p < 1461686381 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown < 1461686469 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file /bin/bash < 1461686489 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x5bb332752cc304fa7fbb838bdf7d7766ffc7a8a1, stripped < 1461686597 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1461686597 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1461686632 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch https://github.com/stedolan/jq/releases/download/jq-1.5/jq-linux64 < 1461686741 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1461686764 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` mv jq-linux64 bin/jq < 1461686774 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1461686783 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` jq -n '0 | recurse(. + 1)' < 1461686784 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /hackenv/bin/jq: Permission denied < 1461686798 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` chmod +x bin/jq < 1461686805 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1461686808 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` jq -n '0 | recurse(. + 1)' < 1461686810 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67 \ 68 \ 69 \ 70 \ 71 \ < 1461686818 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1461686885 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's jq? < 1461686905 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461686911 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A json transforming language. < 1461686947 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is neat because it feels so functional, like an arrow combinator dsl. < 1461687014 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, as others I think have put it, “grep, sed, awk for JSON”. < 1461687308 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` findmnt -J | jq 'recurse(.children[]) | select(.source | startswith("/")) | del(.children)' < 1461687319 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :findmnt: invalid option -- 'J' \ \ Usage: \ findmnt [options] \ findmnt [options] | \ findmnt [options] \ findmnt [options] [--source ] [--target ] \ \ Options: \ -s, --fstab search in static table of filesystems \ -m, --mtab search in table of mounted fi < 1461687327 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :… oh. < 1461687598 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use jq a lot in my work... for some reason all my datasets are json < 1461687689 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for automation i use python however < 1461688353 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461688513 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ok < 1461688515 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? jq < 1461688521 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jq? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1461688623 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1461688833 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461688895 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1461689116 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461689615 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461691530 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461691765 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461691768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1461692028 0 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461692061 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1461692082 0 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1461692200 0 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461692834 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@84.51.143.223 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461693138 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you had two push down automata that could send signals to each other < 1461693219 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting system would be turing complete even though each component isn't < 1461693285 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... i think that will be my next esolang < 1461695254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461696134 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1461696718 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the trope you get when an enemy loses all their HP but doesn't die? < 1461696856 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461697113 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461697162 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461697543 0 :xfix!~xfix@unaffiliated/xfix PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last Chance Hit Point, if you mean TV Tropes? < 1461697683 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is literally the worst tragedy ever happened to me http://i.imgur.com/qyxpDKi.png < 1461697722 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam in a manga < 1461697728 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to die < 1461697730 0 :xfix!~xfix@unaffiliated/xfix PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no link, how you will follow it... < 1461697737 0 :xfix!~xfix@unaffiliated/xfix PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the worst thing ever. < 1461697925 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna find the uploader and sue them < 1461698078 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfix: that only means an attack can only kill it if it's already at 1 hp < 1461698095 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, when their HP is at 0 (or negative!) but they still attack < 1461698108 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what negative hit points even mean < 1461698130 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes? < 1461698148 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], in a video game, what do you think negative hit points would mean < 1461698182 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: No, you said "hp", so now I'm here < 1461698186 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1461698194 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god I can't help but laugh at that < 1461698204 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But it would mean purgatory. You have to play a stupid part of the game to get back to the main game < 1461698229 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily, I mean if I were to make one, it'd mean, um < 1461698430 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: complex hitpoints are waaaaaaaaaaay more interesting < 1461698438 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1461698456 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Also, quantum combinatory logic < 1461698463 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum what < 1461698480 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Combinatory Logic < 1461698502 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? I mean, I kinda barely sort of ish understand what combinatory logic means, but quantum combinatory logic? < 1461698514 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Well, QCL isn't established yet < 1461698532 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But probabilistic combinatory logic is < 1461698550 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's SK with the additional τ combinator, which takes two arguments and returns one with 50/50 probability < 1461698560 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461698567 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that improve hit points? < 1461698599 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It wouldn't; it's completely unrelated < 1461698606 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461698633 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about every hit is an instant KO and you just have to dodge a lot? < 1461698649 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Sounds too unforgiving < 1461698658 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it wouldn't be a random chance < 1461698684 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoiding damage would mean solving little minigames to survive... actually, Undertale is a perfect example < 1461698709 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not perfect < 1461698724 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea of it being like a dance match, you would have to time the moves right to avoid attack < 1461698817 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: My biggest difficulty with QCL is that I can't find the bits in CCL < 1461698842 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between quantum and probabilistic? < 1461698856 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Quantum is more confusing < 1461698869 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing < 1461698909 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: In QC, you have superpositions (and entanglement). That means a qubit can be in a superposition of 1 and 0. PC doesn't allow superpositions. < 1461698926 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461698940 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't τ return a superposition? < 1461698996 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It could, but I think that some other combinator should do that < 1461699001 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Probably the Q combinator < 1461699009 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1461699022 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Q takes two expressions and returns a superposition between them. < 1461699037 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(curried, duh) < 1461699045 0 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-87-58.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1461699087 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: O takes a quantum state and observes it. < 1461699093 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't fully understand S :p < 1461699095 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Wait, I think this system supports cloning ATM < 1461699113 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Sxyz = xz(yz) < 1461699124 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does substituting z into x and y even mean < 1461699125 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's a generalized application operator < 1461699131 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ? < 1461699143 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does xz even mean < 1461699145 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: xz means "apply x to the argument z" < 1461699151 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461699154 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's curried < 1461699159 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now < 1461699164 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's like x(z) in classical notation, but it's more general < 1461699176 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :((x z) (y z)), right...? < 1461699184 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or x(z, y(z))? < 1461699231 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Kind of like both < 1461699239 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1461699262 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: The cool thing about curried functions is that they only take one argument, but they can return other functions that take more arguments < 1461699270 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ik < 1461699283 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :K x y = x < 1461699296 0 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a curried representation, those two are effectively the same thing. < 1461699299 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: So if foo(x, y, z) = x+y+z, then if bar = curry(foo) then bar(x)(y)(z) = x+y+z < 1461699311 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1461699316 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: OK, good < 1461699329 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: So in classical notation (still curried, xz(yz) = x(z)(y(z)) < 1461699336 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/curried/curried)/ < 1461699368 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1461699383 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Do you see why SKK = I? < 1461699389 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1461699393 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: OK, excellent < 1461699425 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :S K K x = K x (K x) = x < 1461699428 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1461699451 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: So the problem with SKQO is that you can clone a quantum state and observe it multiple times < 1461699468 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like... SOO(Qxy) < 1461699482 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is observing like the tau operator? < 1461699484 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And real quantum computing bans cloning of values < 1461699490 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I guess? < 1461699496 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But it uses a superposition < 1461699502 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :like O (Q x y) is equivalent to t x y? < 1461699504 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Rather than 2 separate arguments < 1461699515 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: They're similar, yes, but not identical < 1461699526 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I think < 1461699528 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent < 1461699537 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at QC yet < 1461699598 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: identical is also mathspeak < 1461699609 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you clone something? < 1461699611 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to go in 8 minutes < 1461699616 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You can't. It's banned. < 1461699650 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Or are you asking how you clone something in SKOQ despite it being banned in reality? < 1461699655 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1461699674 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOO is the "clone and self-apply" combinator < 1461699682 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOO? < 1461699690 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOO(Qxy) = O(Qxy)(O(Qxy)) < 1461699692 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes < 1461699695 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1461699703 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: SOO like SKK; that's a combinator expression < 1461699705 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a name < 1461699717 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :S O O x = Ox(Ox) < 1461699719 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :right...? < 1461699724 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Correct < 1461699726 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need O? < 1461699732 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: To observe things < 1461699737 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just collapse on applying Q < 1461699737 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Oh, good point I guess < 1461699749 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :collapse...? < 1461699751 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Huh? Like, as soon as Q is applied? < 1461699758 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's a quantum physics thing < 1461699761 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean Q x y z? < 1461699780 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Ah, that works, actually < 1461699782 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKQ < 1461699784 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Q x y z = (Q x y) z = either x z or y z < 1461699784 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((Q x) y) z) < 1461699817 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: That works better, I suppose. But how do we prevent cloning? < 1461699841 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Unless the Q "object" collapses all at once < 1461699865 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i would make it so, i.e. S entangles states < 1461699868 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: So when the expression is collapsed once, it collapses everywhere < 1461699871 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: OK < 1461699873 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$? < 1461699884 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you actually cannot define how they entangle < 1461699888 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ looks tanglier < 1461699891 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: OK... < 1461699899 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Also, e.g. < 1461699915 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: e.g. is "for example", i.e. is "in other words" < 1461699924 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :...huh? < 1461699927 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how do you make a state out of Q x y that collapses to y when Q x y collapses to x? < 1461699955 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Well, probabilistically speaking, you just need a combinator like M < 1461699962 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mx = xx < 1461699975 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :S (K Qxy z) a b? < 1461699990 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my brain < 1461699995 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :M(Qxy) = Qxy(Qxy), and unless we have the global collapse protection, that could be x(y) < 1461700002 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Welcome to quantum physics < 1461700008 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could actually make both S and $ where S entangles a Q as is and $ entangles it reversed < 1461700013 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Here's your eigenharp < 1461700025 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Perhaps < 1461700026 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the quantum stuff that hurts, it's the absense of parentheses < 1461700031 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Ah xD < 1461700034 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You get used to it < 1461700045 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Remember that application is left-associative and you'll be fine < 1461700075 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we trying to find out an equivalent to O? < 1461700084 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: We already decided on an equivalent to O < 1461700088 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do think there is no need for O < 1461700099 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], do you mean M, or SKQ? < 1461700109 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ? < 1461700121 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Qxyz = xz|yz, because Qxy creates a superposition between x and y and applying a superposition collapses it < 1461700126 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to leave < 1461700133 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooh < 1461700142 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets it a little bit < 1461700148 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like observing it? < 1461700168 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1461700240 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess K (Q x y) z = Q x y, right? < 1461700337 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1461700402 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461700424 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my proposal: S a b (Q x y) = a (Q x y) (b (Q x y)) and $ a b (Q x y) = a (Q x y) (b (Q y x)) < 1461700492 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (K x) (K y) z = K x z | K y z = x|y, right? < 1461700532 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric := Q x y < 1461700551 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1461700562 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1461700572 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q x y is x|y < 1461700583 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't Q a superposition? < 1461700589 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I using | wrong < 1461700591 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1461700605 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (K x) (K y) z = K x z or K y z = x or y, right? < 1461700610 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you say x|y should be? < 1461700615 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461700615 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Wait, shouldn't applying a superposition to something yield another superposition? < 1461700623 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Qxyz = Q(xz)(yz) < 1461700639 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does so < 1461700656 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Did you change it while I was offline? < 1461700662 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1461700669 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more sense < 1461700672 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i defined S and $ < 1461700702 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1461700723 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (X y) Z = Z y? < 1461700740 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is R? < 1461700749 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my definition..? < 1461700753 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (Qxy) T = Txy? < 1461700762 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :where T is probabilistic x or y < 1461700765 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg < 1461700767 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Quit: gtg < 1461700812 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is \x.\y.yKx? < 1461700815 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :R sounds like fmap from Haskell... < 1461700861 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Doesn't it? < 1461700913 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, it's the opposite < 1461700938 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why it ignores X completely < 1461701022 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It extracts the argument and applies it to something else, it appears < 1461701028 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: X is a combinator < 1461701043 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: So R (SK) K would be KK < 1461701064 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that "X is a combinator" was a stupid thing to say < 1461701073 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said, that'd be \y.\y.yKx < 1461701106 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION analyzes < 1461701118 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't get it < 1461701152 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :λy → λy → yKx... < 1461701167 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x.\y < 1461701168 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1461701174 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one was right < 1461701176 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Oh, that makes thing easier < 1461701198 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: But I have a feeling R is impossible, because it allows you to undo Q which could be used for cloning < 1461701224 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cq = Q(Rq) < 1461701236 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something along those lines < 1461701241 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd need an anti-R for it < 1461701254 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AR (X y) = X < 1461701392 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1461701423 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cq = Q (R (AR q)) (R q) < 1461703169 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Something that'd be nice for neoletters is if arrows < 1461703175 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, premature enter < 1461703187 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ...if arrows properly connected with boxdrawing characters < 1461703203 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"help me, premature ejaculation man" "i'm cuming!" < 1461703331 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just call me a premature ejaculation, because I'm coming early" < 1461703473 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461703537 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@192.5.110.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461703701 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Python invader 5* 10New user account < 1461703862 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461703886 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1461703983 0 :Reece`!~Ner@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461704015 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ill look into the arrow problem. i thought they already did connect < 1461704051 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Maybe it's just the particular renderer < 1461704059 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: The corner arrows connect, I found < 1461704071 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: But the vertical arrows do not connect with vertical boxdrawers < 1461704140 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461704174 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted. < 1461704403 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1461705031 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1461705064 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46847&oldid=46620 5* 03Python invader 5* (+2091) 10 < 1461705474 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1461705752 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46848&oldid=46847 5* 03Python invader 5* (-2092) 10/* See also */ < 1461705915 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461706458 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461706507 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461707264 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1461707813 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46849&oldid=46769 5* 03IAM 5* (+218) 10/* Last Half—Or Is It? */ new section < 1461708156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:IAM14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46850&oldid=46835 5* 03IAM 5* (-173) 10 < 1461708158 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461708239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46851&oldid=46849 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+266) 10/* Last Half—Or Is It? */ < 1461708789 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wizard < 1461708793 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdo < 1461708794 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1461708795 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1461708798 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pirate < 1461708800 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pirate < 1461708820 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? glass < 1461708882 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wizard: not found < 1461708882 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pirate: not found < 1461708891 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdo: not found < 1461708891 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pirate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1461708892 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :char/Char is a prominent component of charcoal. < 1461708892 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :glass? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1461708962 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slashlearn glass/I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me. < 1461708969 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «glass» < 1461709019 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you slashlearn < 1461709327 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1461709342 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted a ticker tape printer for like amusing retro computing purposes < 1461709347 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I go about looking for one < 1461709394 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1461709494 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: they're usually built into teletype or telex machines, not separate < 1461709517 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: there's a working one on display in Andrássy út here if you want to try it < 1461709527 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a museum < 1461709552 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I have 14 hours to apply on behalf of my uni's CS society for a grant < 1461709556 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no idea what to get < 1461709593 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: more beefy servers? or hard disks? they're always useful < 1461709602 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A storage server perhaps? < 1461709608 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have more servers than we have places to put servers < 1461709617 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um, then apply for more place? < 1461709632 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's normally done as an ongoing thing and this is a one-time thing grant < 1461709879 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or done as an arrangement between us and the uni, which is a different thing againb < 1461709894 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1461710008 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to get something cool we can display and do fun and pretty looking things with < 1461710101 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a Cray XT5, I think they print those fancy panels on it as part of the deal. < 1461710109 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I assume so, because they always seem to have some. < 1461710130 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/XT5/whatever number is current/) < 1461710153 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that would also need a place to put it in. < 1461710258 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the CSC upgraded Sisu (a Cray XC40) actually has pretty front tiles, unlike the previous CSC ones. < 1461710279 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://research.csc.fi/documents/48467/84606/sisu_phase2_1b.jpg <- see < 1461710305 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Northern lights, even though the machine is in a place where you can see those maybe once a year if that. < 1461710322 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that looks a little above our price range I'm afraid < 1461710376 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compare to CSC's previous (XT4/XT5) one: https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/296fd8fd-0303-4b26-b5e0-ce6d3368b0c0_l.jpg < 1461710379 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so square. < 1461710470 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1461710479 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really a "CS" thing, but if you can't think of anything, you could always get a fancy 3D printer, since then you can print whatever. < 1461710628 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second vote for 3d printer < 1461710682 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you could get a steno machine. Some of those have ticker tape < 1461710702 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could teach people steno, which is always fun < 1461710741 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461710807 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone -- I forget who -- got one of the http://formlabs.com/ printers at their office. It does the thing where you have some liquid that's hardened by a laser, instead of squeezing melty stuff out through a nozzle. < 1461710841 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one of those things that I wanted to back on KS, but I didn't have the money :( < 1461710952 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1461711197 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: b_jellonas. interesting reference you slashlearned there. < 1461711223 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloily. What was it? < 1461711243 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechellonique. < 1461711246 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? glass < 1461711271 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me. < 1461711283 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ it's used as a minimal translateable sentence to showcase different languages and their grammatical features. < 1461711293 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's very cool < 1461711307 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can_Eat_Glass < 1461711334 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: http://www.columbia.edu/~fdc/utf8/ < 1461711348 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Harvard students were involved. < 1461711350 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jag kan äta glas utan att skada mig. < 1461711351 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I think I learned that one from someone on this channel recently < 1461711398 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: inget jag skulle rekommendera < 1461711463 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :J'peux manger d'la vitre, ça m'fait pas mal. < 1461711567 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1461711571 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What goes with logic? < 1461711582 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axioms and red wine < 1461711591 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently have Logic, Approximation, and Insanity, but Approximation doesn't feel right < 1461711607 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeeh... construction works < 1461711610 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's modal logic. That's more of a rosé type of thing < 1461711619 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constructivist Insanity. < 1461711638 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ouch, that's too many apostrophes for me < 1461711732 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwah ah ah ^^ < 1461711792 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoken French drops schwas, clustering consonants together with great disrespect to phonotactics hth < 1461711799 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, most of the ensuing dialogue after such a demonstration would likely also be apostrophe < 1461711816 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well sure, but you don't write that by dropping the e usually < 1461711919 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-82.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1461711928 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it is the case. < 1461711943 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://clyp.it/fdgndqrn < 1461712035 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There weren't even any vowels in there. < 1461712073 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1461712100 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A joke about French, and also almost that URL < 1461712154 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have vowels! we're just stingy about spending them all in one go :P < 1461712154 0 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1461712239 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a language with 17 vowels, that economy seems unnecessary < 1461712281 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461712358 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, doesn't what you said mean "I can eat the window"? < 1461712386 0 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1461712396 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only remember french from high school, but I thought glass was le verre < 1461712407 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: no, window is “la fenêtre” I think < 1461712413 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, duh < 1461712432 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, vitre is a pane of glass < 1461712457 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: don't the French leave some of their schwas in? < 1461712465 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, they do < 1461712483 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quebec is' just like j'pns < 1461712536 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'ppr'll'. < 1461712590 0 :coppro!~scshunt@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonjroily < 1461712615 0 :adu!~ajr@111.sub-70-192-203.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1461713615 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1461713886 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.239.53.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: DIAMOND CHICKEN < 1461714111 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1461714126 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1461714134 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a model for a processor < 1461714176 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has absurd startup times, but after that is identical to a Harvard Architecture < 1461714243 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1461714296 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically a Harvard architecture- a control unit, an ALU, data memory, instruction memory, and I/O with buses between the CU and all other components < 1461714320 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting for the part where it's not a Harvard architecture with a fatal flaw < 1461714396 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, however, there's a unit called the "Boot Unit" or "Memory Unit" with one or more read buses from the Data Memory, an equal number of buses to the instruction memory, and a read bus/receiver bus from the Control Unit < 1461714422 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"Memory Unit"/"Memory Transfer Unit"/ < 1461714515 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On boot, the CU boots a small script from the data memory, sends a message to the BU to transfer a much larger block to the instruction memory (the BU is specially designed for transferring large amounts of data quickly) and awaits its completion, then continues like a normal Harvard Arhcitecture < 1461714663 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This really only works efficiently if the OS itself executes programs that run on the OS, as opposed to the hardware. Which may or may not be how things work anyway; I don't really know. < 1461714715 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to break the cardinal rule of improv, but why? < 1461714738 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this just Modified Harvard Architecture? I didn't think it was, but a part of the wikipedia page on normal Harvard Architecture suggests it might be < 1461714749 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like it could be. < 1461714769 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Harvard Architectures are much faster than Von Neumann architectures < 1461714798 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: But they suffer from the fatal flaw of not being able to, well, boot (without an external operator) < 1461714878 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The original Harvard Architecture needed someone to physically load programs which were COMPLETELY separate from the data memory. < 1461714887 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha < 1461714907 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is a Harvard architecture; it has a program and data, and they are entirely separate < 1461714942 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck where the first len(prog) bytes of the tape hold the program itself (and you can modify it at runtime) are a Von Neumann architecture < 1461714992 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with an instruction that writes the current byte of memory to a particular part of the program is a Modified Harvard Architecture by my understanding < 1461715003 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1461715063 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck with an instruction to transfer a large quantity of memory into the program at a specified location (something like K, which appends the tape to the program) would be whatever this thing is called < 1461715110 0 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: So what was "Aha"?