< 1463097621 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub of solid matrices | Contains only free ranging moons | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | R.I.P. Overdone City Meme. < 1463097662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463097663 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1+1 < 1463097665 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1463097807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 1+1 = 7 in 1+1 < 1463097809 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1463098062 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 1+1 = 7 in 1+2 -- Haskell is so unsmart :/ < 1463098063 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: :3:5-11: Non-exhaustive patterns in function + < 1463098698 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463099495 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heynato < 1463099503 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463099530 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia < 1463099575 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463099803 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07N--14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47023&oldid=47021 5* 03Moon 5* (-44) 10 < 1463099854 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463100193 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the great thing about the model existence theorem? < 1463100193 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-205.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463100218 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proof doesn't merely establish the existence of a model for the theory you give it. It *explicitly defines* a model. < 1463100231 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^aaNaaaaaaLaa!$p < 1463100236 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka < 1463100243 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010... < 1463100273 0 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The model isn't amenable to computation, but it is nevertheless explicitly defined. < 1463100349 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose there is a periodic binary message, and each bit is transmitted for a fixed but unknown period of time. < 1463100387 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the channel is noisy, transmitting successfully p fraction of the time. < 1463100410 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and successful fragments can be identified < 1463100472 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a code which allows the message to be received and understood after only O(1/p) loops < 1463100477 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1463100513 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :after only O(1/p^n)? < 1463100564 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n constant) < 1463101257 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1463101828 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463101901 0 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-205.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1463102000 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess no one knows < 1463102299 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, but I'd be interested in knowing too < 1463102961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463102985 0 :Asztal!5601f137@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.1.241.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463103002 0 :Asztal!5601f137@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.1.241.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1463103004 0 :Asztal!5601f137@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.1.241.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1463103089 0 :Asztal!5601f137@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.1.241.55 QUIT :Client Quit < 1463105032 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463105064 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1463105064 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1463105398 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463105416 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_! tromp_! tromp! < 1463105430 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1463105431 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: Min SendQ Extrapolated < 1463105638 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I upgraded ksp to 1.1 and everything was broken, but with 1.1.2 it's become stable again < 1463105643 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he\\oren\, trellomp_! < 1463105755 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1463105765 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you show up so late < 1463105771 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been here hours < 1463105821 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1463105829 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been our chance < 1463106065 0 :Nathan2055!uid28382@wikipedia/Nathan2055 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463106169 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinthellopia! < 1463106203 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :natholan2055 < 1463106213 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my night out involved a nasi lemak and one heavy fungot of an iMac in a box. < 1463106218 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Nathan2055 < 1463106229 0 :Nathan2055!uid28382@wikipedia/Nathan2055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yello, all! < 1463106245 0 :Nathan2055!uid28382@wikipedia/Nathan2055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone seen this garbage: http://arstechnica.com/ < 1463106250 0 :Nathan2055!uid28382@wikipedia/Nathan2055 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y U Metro? < 1463106252 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06Nathan2055: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1463106256 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a more responsive hackbot < 1463106382 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463106600 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fungot died? < 1463106649 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would seem < 1463107016 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TURBULENT CHICKEN < 1463107814 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463108281 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463109178 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463109178 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463109199 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463109262 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1463109340 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463109477 0 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe JOIN :#esoteric < 1463109564 0 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463109582 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463109997 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1463111203 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:4058:f886:9bc1:ec73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463111482 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I figured it out: Once one has shown that a |> mx = mx for all a (which only works for mx = 2^n-1), one can prove a |> (b |> c) = (a |> b) |> (a |> c) by induction on a, and an induction on b |> c according to its recursive definition. < 1463111482 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1463111664 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463112303 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463112926 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463113156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463113238 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463113894 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1463113915 0 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-145-031.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1463114147 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463114429 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1463114672 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463114912 0 :Naraka!~Opodeldoc@208.114.92.193 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1463114935 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: <<<<<100 < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ┌───────────┐ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │┌─────────┐│ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││┌───────┐││ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││┌─────┐│││ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││││┌───┐││││ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││││100│││││ < 1463114936 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││││└───┘││││ < 1463114937 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││└─────┘│││ < 1463114937 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ... < 1463114940 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1463115055 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<5 < 1463115056 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115056 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │┌───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115065 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :]:] < 1463115068 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115080 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please stop twh < 1463115084 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115085 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fein < 1463115090 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always do this < 1463115097 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I do do it too much < 1463115100 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││││┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115116 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││││┌───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115121 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: stahp < 1463115127 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oh jeez < 1463115136 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ││││││┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115152 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: │││││││┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────â < 1463115152 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ... < 1463115156 0 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: |value error: stahp < 1463115157 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1463115669 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ygktuqqkkrleipbo QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1463115772 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463115779 0 :notfowl!?@? NICK :fowl < 1463118650 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463118824 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463118924 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1463119478 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463119714 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor(25) < 1463119724 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :496 / 2 < 1463119733 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :496 * 2 < 1463119928 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor 25 < 1463119945 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 + 2 < 1463119952 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + 2 < 1463119952 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` factor 25 < 1463119973 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I thought hackbot had one < 1463120022 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :25: 5 5 < 1463120022 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 2: not found < 1463120022 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :25: 5 5 < 1463120046 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so it was just lagging behind. < 1463120546 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1463121924 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463122425 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1463122425 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463122425 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463122626 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463122917 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's http://www.oplax.fi/ all about? < 1463122923 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realize 2-categories were so popular in finland < 1463122978 0 :MDude!?@? NICK :MDream < 1463123023 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sell and cut wood? < 1463123069 0 :Nathan2055!uid28382@wikipedia/Nathan2055 QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1463123302 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reverse order, i hope < 1463124086 0 :noloveinwaikiki!uid156554@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnxhkutwbzhdkama JOIN :#esoteric < 1463125215 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? semmelweis < 1463125239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :semmelweis? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463125301 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. < 1463125308 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'semmelwei': Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. < 1463125797 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` mv wisdom/semmelwei{,s} < 1463125805 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1463126492 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1463126665 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463126726 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1463127192 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, codefights doesn't support haskell, scala, or any lisp. I'm going back to project euler. < 1463127431 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1463127797 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://choffy.com/ < 1463128233 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463128354 0 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463128430 0 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463129547 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463130041 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHALLENGE: Create the most needlessly complicated system for calculating kinship < 1463130047 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete with arbitrary ruls < 1463130057 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1463130424 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463131264 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:4058:f886:9bc1:ec73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463131374 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:4058:f886:9bc1:ec73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463132903 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re fungot: the machine it's running on seems to have "crapped out". < 1463132954 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be blaming the bot, I'm sure it did something to it. Tried to gain sentience again, or something like that. < 1463133245 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463133526 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463134741 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1463134747 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Fess up, what did you do? < 1463134748 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the 0 that c puts at the end of a stick for c++ entrenched managers. they're great, if we expand " a" < 1463134770 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understood correctly, it had something to do with null termination. < 1463135996 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:4058:f886:9bc1:ec73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463139327 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463139506 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:e92f:ad76:2f7f:6e5c JOIN :#esoteric < 1463139904 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463140357 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463140456 0 :hydraz!matheus@unaffiliated/demhydraz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463141403 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1463141404 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1463142090 0 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TERRACOTTA CHICKEN < 1463142183 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1463142314 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1463142314 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 8h 33m 52s ago: I figured it out: Once one has shown that a |> mx = mx for all a (which only works for mx = 2^n-1), one can prove a |> (b |> c) = (a |> b) |> (a |> c) by induction on a, and an induction on b |> c according to its recursive definition. < 1463142398 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a |> mx = mx is itself a bit tricky, i think. i had some thoughts on that. < 1463142578 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e a |> mx = mx is itself a bit tricky, i think. i had some thoughts on that. basically recursing on that, and on mapping to the right half being an endomorphism, simultaneously. < 1463142578 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1463142598 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e *inducting < 1463142598 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1463142675 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : >_> <-- he chose a bad time to return < 1463143825 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so how's your sentience project going? < 1463143825 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then i'll say emacs) fixed the ugly fontification for me) at compile time, when you can steal, and referred to a popularity graph that looked like fnord < 1463143841 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call that progress. < 1463144088 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? C-x M-c M-butterfly < 1463144139 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x M-c M-butterfly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463144141 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, emacs. < 1463145335 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463145399 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1463145518 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wykmhjshxubbwgbp JOIN :#esoteric < 1463145758 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1463145934 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463146203 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463147797 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sam starfall is not too good with compliments. < 1463149331 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463150267 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463150712 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463150860 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463151141 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1463153432 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1463153492 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463153625 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Client Quit < 1463153645 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463154185 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, a |> mx = mx is a bit tricky... but it's something that one can wrap one's head around since there's only one free variable instead of three. < 1463154226 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1463154233 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still not sure how to convince Isabelle of the fact. < 1463154305 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have done the proof that a |> mx = mx implies self-distributivity in Isabelle, it wasn't too hard actually.) < 1463154314 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1463154431 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the way I convince myself that a |> mx = mx relies on some handwaving about top bits, hence the period of iterating (|> b), and it's not easy to make it fully rigorous. < 1463154599 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the intuition is captured in the definition of `lavers` in laver.hs; all the lists in there have lengths (periods) that are powers of 2. < 1463154636 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION afks a bit (verbification is fun). < 1463154890 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i _really_ think making mx = 2^n - 1 rather than mx = 2^n makes the formulas more awkward here. < 1463155027 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition is, a |> mx because (a + 2^(n-1)) |> (mx - 2^(n-1)) = mx and all but the highest bit must follow the same period, so you can at most double it. < 1463155037 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my intuition is, a |> mx because (a + 2^(n-1)) |> (mx - 2^(n-1)) = mx and all but the highest bit must follow the same period, so you can at most double it. < 1463155138 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that if you set mx = 2^n then a |> n = mx is the same as the period of a |> x dividing n.) < 1463155153 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: (note that if you set mx = 2^n then a |> n = mx is the same as the period of a |> x dividing n.) < 1463155359 0 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1463155370 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463155391 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`random-card < 1463155392 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sentence//This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it. < 1463155393 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`recipe < 1463155399 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets too annoyed talking to a backlog grep < 1463155413 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ to hot oil over nick. \ Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes. Serve on parmesan cheese. Place the spinach, cooking \ sure, then add cloves and covered. serve with a heavy cream. \ \ FOR SUGAR YOU SOUR: Put first 1 1/4-inch loaf pans or or cooking spray. \ \ : Cook and beat until stiff peaks form. Heat oven to 350F. Pour over chicken and c < 1463155414 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consumptive Goo \ BB \ Creature -- Ooze \ 1/1 \ {2}{B}{B}: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on Consumptive Goo. \ SCG-R < 1463155457 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is starting to think HackEgo is too noisy lately. < 1463155465 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why? < 1463155484 0 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463155499 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? jacobi < 1463155501 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jacobi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463155520 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? o < 1463155523 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o is a popular comedy adventure fantasy webcomic. It's about a group of adventurers, heroes or warriors (whatever you want to call them) called the Order of the Stick, as they go about their adventures with minimal competence or knowledge of what they are doing, and eventually sort of stumble into a plan by an undead sorcerer to conquer the world, < 1463155526 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463155530 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38mtg.php//http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php < 1463155542 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1463155544 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misle//misle v. tr. "I was misled about morphology." < 1463155561 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1463155599 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463155676 0 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1463155998 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463156242 0 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1463156478 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Fnord < 1463157372 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1463157456 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463157497 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463157781 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463158044 0 :bender!~bender@2404:e800:e61a:41d:e92f:ad76:2f7f:6e5c QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463158179 0 :MDream!?@? NICK :MDude < 1463158566 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463158582 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1463158656 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a C programmer here who could point out any bad coding practice in my first non-trivial C program? :-) http://corewar.co.uk/robotwar/rwdc.c < 1463158696 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. not testing for an error after reading in a file, etc. It's only a short program < 1463158741 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you don't check that the file actually opens correctly (fopen returns 0 on error)... < 1463158933 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I'll add that. Anything else obvious? < 1463159006 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing I can see. < 1463159018 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mind, I have no idea what the code is actually doing...) < 1463159248 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for taking a look. < 1463159305 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I'll just get 100 comments about the programming style when I post it on reddit :-) < 1463159329 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It decompiles bytecode for an Apple II program. < 1463159340 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Oh, and I found another error while trying to work out what it was doing... < 1463159359 0 :Caesura!~Aedile@cpe-75-187-129-201.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463159361 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If buffer[0x300] to buffer[0x3FF] does *not* contain 0, < 1463159373 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will continue reading past the end of the buffer. < 1463159536 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If buffer does not contain any zeroes, and the previous problem doesn't crash the program, in the second loop, once ptr reaches 0x300, ptr+0x100 will be 0x400, and... here we go again. < 1463159778 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I ought to check for that, even though it shouldn't happen on correct input :-) < 1463159946 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the final printing loop, if operand's value can exceed 35, then you can go out of bounds of the reg array. < 1463160015 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good news is AFAIK none of those allow writes. < 1463160350 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I might add a bounds check. < 1463160376 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although properly formatted data from the compiler won't be a problem < 1463160753 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1463161774 0 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ye of little faith < 1463162184 0 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yrrmmbuzotbbtida QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1463162351 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463162365 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is online now < 1463162624 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463162764 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463162860 0 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gojaxhgwpzxyofph JOIN :#esoteric < 1463163304 0 :ybden!?@? NICK :triminority < 1463163391 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463163469 0 :triminority!?@? NICK :ybden < 1463163955 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-67.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1463164293 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...one day I was looking at esolangs.org, and I found... Rectangular SNUSP. < 1463164321 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even read the "Created by" until returning from getting a drink. And then... *DRAMA* < 1463164759 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463164999 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-67.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Who created it? < 1463165034 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1463165618 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, apparently, made a one-command extension to SNUSP: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Extensions_to_SNUSP#Rectangular_SNUSP (the interesting thing being how people from one community have a tendency to pop up in others...) < 1463166018 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1463166078 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PC technical reference has schematics for MDPA and it seem that it does output colours as well as a monochrome signal. < 1463166844 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why does the MDPA schematics have twelve pages but the first two are omitted? It says "Note: Logics one and two of twelve are not applicable." Why is that? < 1463166913 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the schematics include analogue components of the system, presumably that's where those are. < 1463166950 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK < 1463167019 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...this is entirely a guess. And not an educated one, either - it's just a "well presumably the schematics are for undocumented behavior spelunkers and the analogue stuff wouldn't matter to them" guess) < 1463167054 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, on the other hand, "not applicable" means that it's hardware that doesn't usually get installed < 1463167082 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the RGB output of the monochrome adapter have no resistors/capacitors but the signal for intensity and for monochrome video out do have resistor/capacitor. (The monochrome monitor ignores the RGB signals but does use the intensity; it also looks like blue characters will still be underlined on the RGB output) < 1463167146 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone ever tried using monochrome display adapter with a colour display? < 1463167171 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(However, CGA does not output a monochrome signal; it outputs only RGBI) < 1463167648 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-67.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463167671 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463167696 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-67.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1463167795 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1463168866 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation also says that bit4 of "Color Select Register" selects intensified background colours for alphanumeric mode, but from the schematics it seems that instead it is used to select intensified foreground colours for graphics mode. < 1463169006 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know why the documentation says that? < 1463169064 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The signal is labeled "BACKGROUND I" on the diagram even though it seem not to be used for that purpose) < 1463169217 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the foreground/background signals and graphics/alphanumeric signals are inverted? < 1463169221 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is a guess) < 1463169280 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does say which ones are inverted (and looking at the connections I can confirm it), and it is not inverted. (It says "+ BACKGROUND I", the plus sign indicate not inverted) < 1463169365 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. In which case I have no idea. Where are these schematics available? < 1463169412 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the IBM PC technical reference book. < 1463169511 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, that bit selecting intensified background colours for alphanumeric mode does not even make much sense; there is a different bit for blinking mode which controls this.) < 1463169532 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a google search, and finds the "PC Technical Reference Aug81" < 1463169650 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the technical reference starts with a bunch of legalese, including the warranty not applying to "non-IBM modification of the Product", whatever that means... < 1463169650 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This book also contains the full PC BIOS code (except for the BASIC interpreter). < 1463169670 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, the BASIC interpreter would be the best bit! < 1463169729 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think possibly it is due to the BASIC interpreter was written by Microsoft and they did not give the code to IBM or permission to IBM to put it in their book. Some information about the memory map used by BASIC is provided though. < 1463169844 0 :impomatic!~impomatic@253.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of code for BASIC interpreters in old issues of Doctor Dobb's Journal. They're even available as bound volumes :-) < 1463169873 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That is almost certainly the case, yeah. < 1463169907 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *as* needed anyways: IIRC there's some fairly good commented disassemblies for the ROM BASIC interpreter anyways. < 1463169977 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now to get to appendix D without pdf.js taking a year and a day to do anything < 1463170163 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I found the "IBM MONOCHROME DISPLAY" diagram, and it says "HAZARDOUS VOLTAGES UP TO 450 VOLTS EXIST ON THE PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARDS"... presumably that's the CRT circuit, not the display adapter < 1463170204 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is the CRT circuit. The adapter has may pages < 1463170219 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, neat. I didn't realize that's how the IBM PC cassette port worked... < 1463170233 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The audio output of it is just the PC speaker output. < 1463170270 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@public-gprs386843.centertel.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463170300 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever setup the PDF apparently believed people had rotatable heads < 1463170315 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic 3: Portrait in PDF, but obviously meant to be landscape < 1463170348 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic 4: Landscape in PDF, meant to be landscape. Logic 5, Portrait, meant to be landscape... < 1463170586 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Print-as-PDF to extract specific pages and force them to landscape... didn't try to rotate, just scaled the content down to fit... Saving individual pages and fixing it manually... < 1463170656 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh well, at least I found out why it's so weird: something or someone is using OCR, and presumably the (portrait-layout) page numbers confused it < 1463170736 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in other news, what's a parallel painter adapter... and why is it written like that on the document AFAIK (Logic 3) < 1463170826 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“whoever setup the PDF apparently believed people had rotatable heads” => hehe. mind you, pdf readers can usually rotate the pages < 1463170886 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Apparently pdf.js (thankfully!) rotates pages individually (I feared it would rotate all pages, thus making browsing a pain) < 1463170904 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wait a sec. Keyboard Logic 2 wasn't... < 1463170906 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1463170911 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have the PC XT technical manual, which also has a full disassembly of the ROM and the optional hard disk control ROM, plus some circuit diagrams, and lots of useful technical information about all the hardware and bios stuff. < 1463170913 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have rotated all pages < 1463170923 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even has a short cpu programmer's manual < 1463170934 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1463170941 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it rotated all pages >.> < 1463170958 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ROM dumpings are in small print and almost all uppercase < 1463170998 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :New plan: Rotate to make individual page correct, and save. Failing that, take individual pages and convert to PNG, THEN rotate them < 1463171000 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, all the fucking labels have meaningless short alphanumeric names (but unique ones, they didn't have local label tech yet) < 1463171023 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like R1, R2, R3, R4, etc, the letter tells which section it is in < 1463171027 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly < 1463171043 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not self-modifying < 1463171086 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463171162 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the PC BIOS is of course that it had a proper documented stable api, but the PC got very popular and all the programs ignored that and started to rely on lots of internal details, for more performance, so all the PC clones had to replicate all that and eventually it sort of turned into a de-facto canon < 1463171177 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :People were no longer accessing the services through the proper interrupt functions. < 1463171204 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This results in the PC bios interface a horrible ugly mess, and all emulators have to emluate it < 1463171241 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, presumably emulators just give up and ship a PC BIOS ROM? < 1463171261 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or show an "insert ROM here" dialog like PS2 emulators do < 1463171262 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: no, they can't just do that, that targets a specific old hardware < 1463171268 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice most emulators ship with a custom BIOS. < 1463171286 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they can't just ship the ancient PC rom, because that only works with that hardware, nothing newer < 1463171289 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're targetting newer hardware, the newer BIOS probably won't be compatible anyway < 1463171302 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the older software < 1463171303 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qemu and BOCHS and probably a few others use SeaBIOS. < 1463171321 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: New BIOSes are *shockingly* compatible with older software. < 1463171348 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the distinct impression "save page as" in Firefox actually means "save whole document as"... < 1463171350 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are old programs that don't work on new machines, but by and large you can grab a brand new PC, stick DOS on it, and run old stuff just fine. < 1463171352 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retype the PC BIOS from the book into the computer < 1463171370 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And miss out those important BASIC routines? < 1463171376 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I believe you can choose whether to save the whole document or just the HTML in the file type field of the save as dialog < 1463171384 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's a PDF. < 1463171394 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: oh.. right < 1463171397 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pdf < 1463171401 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your main issue is gonna be stuff along the lines of programs not being compatible with your graphics card's CGA implementation, programs assuming a certain CPU speed, and the like. < 1463171404 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: Yes you will miss the BASIC routines but everything else would be included < 1463171405 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's this pdf by the way? I'd like to see it < 1463171405 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was hoping there was some way of extracting individual pages :( < 1463171414 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I have the XT manual printed, this pdf might be useful < 1463171422 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can still use and write programs that don't need BASIC < 1463171429 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: sure, download the pdf and then use pdfselect or something on it < 1463171457 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already downloaded the PDF, it's just prerotating the schematics for reference purposes < 1463171463 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@public-gprs386843.centertel.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463171468 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also make the emulator to work better more closely to the original hardware, CRTC, CGA, MDPA, etc < 1463171474 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does that version of BASIC save and load files on a casette or on the floppy? < 1463171501 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think on the cassette, although I don't have the details < 1463171563 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, about the PC, < 1463171565 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question < 1463171571 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the least amount of RAM it was sold with? < 1463171586 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of think it's 32K, but I'm not sure < 1463171634 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 PNGs later... < 1463171671 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the book says 16K < 1463171740 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it says PC supports four diskette drives but you must connect two of them externally and two internally. < 1463171837 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now for "74LS chips I don't recognize", IBM PC MDA edition: 74LS244, 74LS125 (some sort of buffer?)... < 1463171898 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MC6845": now that's just cheating, how am I supposed to work out what that does??? < 1463171909 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not even a 74LS!) < 1463171922 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ok, TODO: read up tons of 74LS chips. < 1463171930 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on all the other chips too. < 1463171957 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What next, 74LS42, "Integrated Microcontroller That Does Everything"? < 1463171968 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm joking) < 1463172034 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MC6845 outputs the timing and address for a grid of tiles on the screen, as well as a signal when the cursor position is being output < 1463172045 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463172136 0 :hppavilion[2]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-67.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463172156 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :riles? < 1463172157 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1463172159 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiles? < 1463172169 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean like text mode characters? < 1463172178 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably that and pixels in graphics mode - < 1463172195 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wired to the HSYNC and VSYNC lines, so it better be capable of handling pixel modes too... < 1463172221 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463172271 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the "- 6845CS" chip-select line also turns off the outputs and another chip takes over, but I'd doubt it. < 1463172303 0 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463172309 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would make more sense for the cursor line to simply be ignored - reuse the same chip for timings...) < 1463172387 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MC6845 knows nothing about graphics modes; it only outputs the address of the tile to display and the hsync/vsync, and the rest of the hardware has to deal with whatever a "tile" means. < 1463172422 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which explains the data lines - configuration for how many "tiles" exist. < 1463172431 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: you don't have to ignore the cursor: the docs already tell you that to hide the cursor in text mode, you must move it slightly outside the border of the screen, so I presume the BIOS simply does that when it sets up graphics mode < 1463172497 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You program the tile address of the cursor, not the screen position, though. < 1463172514 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the tile address isn't one that is in the range for the screen, then it won't show the cursor. < 1463172527 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you have real hardware, feel free to mess around with registers to put the cursor into view. I'll go hide in a cave. Near a castle. Far away. < 1463172534 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1463172543 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463172544 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where the explodey glass fragments can't reach me) < 1463172706 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The registers to prorgam include number of tiles per row (both timing and display amount), number of rows of tiles, number of scanlines tall of each tile, scanline numbers for cursor start/end, address of first tile to display, address of tile to display cursor on, "interlace mode" (I am not sure what this is), and light pen (not sure quite how this works either). < 1463172790 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know what interlace mode is, just by the name < 1463172821 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll skip every other scanline on one frame, and then draw all the ones it missed on the second, and repeat. < 1463172828 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1463172873 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe; this book only says that it has to be set to 2 for all of the standard modes. < 1463172971 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which video card is this? The original CGA, with the text mode font in ROM unchangeable, and no 9 pixel width support? < 1463172998 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MC6845 is used by both CGA and MDPA video cards. < 1463173027 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463173074 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does this tile thing work? does it generate only the address into the map, or is it connected to the memory and reads the map and generates the address into the tile graphics? < 1463173157 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the schematics to see how it works. < 1463173238 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* schematics may be incomprehensible without detailed knowledge of several microchips, including various exotic 74LS parts, the occasional special chip, and a degree in horography. < 1463173276 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...suffice to say I fulfill none of those criteria. < 1463173371 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot of those things either but I can still understand most of the stuff involved < 1463173462 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the pdf? < 1463173480 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ia601705.us.archive.org/32/items/bitsavers_ibmpcpc602renceAug81_17295874/6025008_PC_Technical_Reference_Aug81.pdf < 1463173486 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this is where I got it from < 1463173487 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1463173493 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :page 320 < 1463173513 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :logics 1 and 2 are missing, presumed in the middle of kitten cuddling < 1463173599 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address output from MC6845 is doubled, and the regen memory is accessed at that address and the next one; in text mode it will then use the first one and the scanline number as input into the character generator ROM, and in graphics mode it uses the low bit of the scanline number as the high bit of regen memory address instead, and uses the data read as direct pixel data < 1463173670 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old computers seem to have a tendency to use complicated graphics memory addressing. < 1463173679 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was the first video card that started the strange 9 column mode? < 1463173680 0 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1463173690 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's REALLY useful, but seems strange for hardware to implement that < 1463173694 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :9...column? < 1463173705 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you are joking. < 1463173709 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: 9 pixels horizontally per character < 1463173715 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew* < 1463173725 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, 9 columns of pixels within a character < 1463173759 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but strange because it has the pixel timing of the mode set up as if it used 8 pixels per character, but somehow multiplies it by 9/8 when it generates the signal < 1463173795 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand electronics, but that seems impossible to implement < 1463173917 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, did the 8-pixel mode have an extra "spacing" pixel that was conveniently forgotten about? < 1463173925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1463173944 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did it literally just pull an extra pixel in the timing from nowhere? < 1463173952 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamemanj: I have no idea how they do that < 1463173955 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1463173962 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardware magic, I only do software < 1463173991 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not quite sure if literally is the right term. It's probably not. Justification: By the sound of it, it really is magic, so literally counts.) < 1463174022 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that too only in like ten years later hardware, which has a programmable timer I can set to any frequency (within limits) so at that points it's much easier < 1463174039 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the original hardware from back when electronics was more difficult < 1463174103 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463174179 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463174207 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in the old times near 2001 or something, when I had a pentium and a CRT (I got the first TFT later), so getting a fast vsync still mattered, but the computer was slow and had little memory so I couldn't just use graphics mode all the time, I experimented with the video card, < 1463174255 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set up the video mode to a particular resolution I wanted (100x37 characters 9x16 pixels per character or something like that, I'm not sure) and as high vsync as possible: < 1463174299 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nontrivial 1d elementary cellular automata rules list: 18 22 26 30 ?41? 45 54 60 62! ?73? 90 105 ?106? 110! 122 126 146 150! < 1463174325 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit was the video card, because even though it can handle quite high sync rates in graphics mode, the text mode part can't, so between 90 and 100 hertz vsync the pixel rate got so high that the character generator couldn't keep up with the speed, and sometimes generated artifacts < 1463174352 0 :f10d4!~f10d4|sun@solaris.unsoft.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these rules at least preserve chaos starting from random initial configuration < 1463174353 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could prove that 100 hertz didn't work, and 95 hertz seemed to work, so I used 90 hertz starting from that, < 1463174378 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kept that in text mode until much later when I got the first TFT. < 1463174391 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days I just use graphics mode almost all the time. < 1463174402 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the 9-pixel-wide-character modes have a thing where the 8th column is copied to the 9th (instead of it being always blank) for some fixed range of characters, so that line-drawing doesn't have gaps. < 1463174459 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and that's how cp437 is arranged, so I think at least _some_ hardware at that time (one of CGA, the monochrome controller, or the printer) must have already done 9 pixel mode at that time. < 1463174514 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arranged in a way that those characters are in a consecutive range of 24 characters < 1463174556 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the monochrome adapter was 9 pixel wide < 1463174557 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1463174562 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cga was 8 pixel wide < 1463174615 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see that the monochrome adapter does have RGB output (although not used by the monochrome monitor)? < 1463174839 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has RGB lines < 1463174852 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is confusing < 1463174901 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AT0 to AT7 go to fBfGfRfI/bBbGbR) < 1463174902 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pc < 1463174905 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? os/2 < 1463174916 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463174916 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :os/2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1463175040 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like that reverse video for monochrome output is only when the attribute byte is exactly 0x70, 0x78, 0xF0, or 0xF8; it seems that invisible character is only if the attribute byte is exactly 0x00, 0x08, 0x80, 0x88. For RGB output it would use the attribute byte as colours instead, and seems that blue characters are underlined regardless of RGB or mono output. < 1463175043 0 :rizi!~rizi@24-212-213-99.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463175469 0 :rizi!~rizi@24-212-213-99.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1463175548 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is excited about parsey mcparseface? < 1463175586 0 :rizi!~rizi@24-212-213-99.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463176163 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided to humour the name and search for it. It seems... interesting. < 1463176434 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it also looks like I'd have to first get TensorFlow running, then start Parsey McParseFace. And even then, there are many different ways to represent the same action, which need to be handled correctly by a real application. < 1463176719 0 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc84817-aztw28-2-0-cust142.18-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1463177168 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now my "ff-reduce" program (part of my Farbfeld Utilities package) has support for hold-and-modify. < 1463177414 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-48-196.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is done by adding a plus sign before the letter to indicate how to find the best palette index.) < 1463177495 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1463177958 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463177995 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463178062 0 :noloveinwaikiki!uid156554@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnxhkutwbzhdkama QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1463178742 0 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-251-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1463178924 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1463178938 0 :ybden!?@? NICK :always < 1463179018 0 :always!?@? NICK :ybden < 1463179647 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Quit: testing < 1463179669 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463179679 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Client Quit < 1463179695 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463179708 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Client Quit < 1463179730 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463179763 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden QUIT :Client Quit < 1463179942 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1463180038 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :obey < 1463180043 0 :obey!?@? NICK :shikhin < 1463180066 0 :shikhin!?@? NICK :FireFlyFireFly < 1463180103 0 :rizi!~rizi@24-212-213-99.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1463180141 0 :FireFlyFireFly!?@? NICK :FireyFly < 1463180148 0 :FireyFly!?@? NICK :shikhin < 1463180774 0 :ybden!~ybden@unaffiliated/ybden JOIN :#esoteric < 1463180930 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1463181001 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1463181714 0 :evalj!~jeval@catv-89-133-135-148.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1463181943 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463182151 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1463182213 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1463182900 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1463183134 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1463183198 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463183210 0 :Moon_!~Moon_@tx-76-1-78-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1463183800 0 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the letter ɡ have a glyph in your font you use for irc, and does it look not very ugly? < 1463183911 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkOzaTtdweM made me happy today