←2016-05-14 2016-05-15 2016-05-16→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:01:11 <shachaf> how can you have both a king and an overlord
00:01:53 <oerjan> the overlord overthrows the king, duh
00:02:22 <shachaf> does the underlord undermine the overlord
00:02:34 <oerjan> BLASPHEMY
00:03:04 <oerjan> the overlord cannot be undermined. as long as no one finds the self destruct button, anyway.
00:04:00 <oerjan> it's that big red with the "don't push if you want to live" sign.
00:04:07 <oerjan> *red one
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00:08:12 <oerjan> phoily!
00:08:22 <oerjan> (2 in a day, progress!)
00:08:41 <oerjan> well, sort of a day
00:13:25 <boily> heŀŀœrjan! it's still the same day in Canadaland hth
00:13:47 <oerjan> exactly!
00:17:35 -!- EuroTaneb has changed nick to Taneb.
00:24:21 <int-e> shachaf: Britain has both queen and parliament...
00:24:49 <int-e> (I'm sure a king and an overlord could come to a similar arrangement.)
00:28:15 <oerjan> `? gamemanj
00:28:25 <HackEgo> gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.
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00:34:20 <oerjan> `? wumpu
00:34:24 <HackEgo> Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
00:34:37 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/wumpu{,s}
00:34:48 <HackEgo> No output.
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00:35:03 <oerjan> . o O ( this messes up culprit identification :( )
00:35:06 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/wumpu
00:35:14 <HackEgo> changeset: 8059:4b82b9fd65f0 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sat May 14 20:26:22 2016 +0000 \ summary: <int-e> learn Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it\'s chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
00:35:29 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/wumpus
00:35:43 <HackEgo> oerjan
00:35:46 <shachaf> would `hg mv` do better, if it was an option?
00:35:54 <oerjan> no idea
00:36:22 <oerjan> it's probably not an option, anyway.
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00:37:03 <shachaf> so you're saying that that's vacuöusly true
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00:37:15 <shachaf> or is that vacuoüsly
00:37:17 <shachaf> who knows
00:38:23 <int-e> "Germany's Jamie-Lee is the biggest argument I've seen for the big five to have their automatic entry to the final removed." ... that bad, eh...
00:38:44 <boily> hellochaf. I believe it's vauöusly hth
00:39:26 <oerjan> boily: i'm skeptical hth
00:39:39 <oerjan> *skeptial
00:39:52 <boily> *skëptial
00:40:13 <oerjan> *sqëptial, demonym for albanian.
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00:45:21 <fizzie> I already forgot what Germany had.
00:45:36 <fizzie> Ohh, right, *that*.
00:46:05 <fizzie> Well, it did get the least amount of points.
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00:47:09 <fizzie> This year they announced the jury votes and the audience votes separately, which was interesting. Especially when Poland got like 7 points from the juries, and 222 from the audience.
00:47:39 <fizzie> (I'm a bit surprised the Wikipedia table doesn't currently *show* them separately, but I'm sure someone'll improve it.)
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00:58:16 <int-e> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2016 lists them separately at least
01:02:43 <fizzie> int-e: Curiously, it's entirely missing points for the first semifinal, but it has the second one.
01:03:17 <int-e> funny
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01:10:29 <Phantom_Hoover> who won
01:10:56 <Phantom_Hoover> ah ukraine
01:11:41 <nortti> https://rageclub.net/~nortti/ul.py.txt
01:12:44 <nortti> ^ underload-y interpreter, in 255B
01:16:19 <oerjan> "-y"?
01:17:17 <oerjan> ah.
01:22:24 <nortti> couldn't quite fit all of underload in 255B, sadly
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01:23:07 <oerjan> "KamLAND-Zen is a group of buddhist monks studying a balloon filled with the xenon isotope Xe136."
01:25:29 * oerjan thinks maybe there was a joke in there.
01:29:06 <boily> Zen is inscrutable. As the Great Master fungot once said unto his disciples...
01:29:06 <fungot> boily: the compiler sources aren't touched when you usually build up a list
01:29:25 <oerjan> Mu.
01:35:29 <boily> "Five of diamonds arched back intended far-seeing size xanthoma, watering bicostate Envelope Logistics®. Commissional, the boozing speech nontronite navigates visions of verbarspermophyta. Dietine overlooker seining, waddywood breathes, full breaths, malacostracology evident. Trip hammer, trip hammer, trip hammer, trip hammer.
01:35:31 <boily> - V❊H❊Q❊H, V❊H❊Q❊H
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01:39:04 <hppavilion[1]> I'm watching VSauce's video "What is the greatest honou?r"
01:39:19 <hppavilion[1]> It makes me want to invent awards
01:40:37 <fowl> Vsauce is neat
01:41:10 <hppavilion[1]> The Bertrand Russell Award for Not Having a Bertrand Russell Award
01:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> (for it to work, we must count a person as a set of awards, and awards as the set of people who have been granted it)
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01:42:23 <boily> hppavellon[1], fellowl.
01:42:24 <hppavilion[1]> (If it makes you uncomfortable, a person can be a tuple containing the set of awards, among other things)
01:42:32 <hppavilion[1]> ahoily
01:43:25 <boily> you should give an award made of wood inoculated with spores of a GMO mushroom that grows into the shape of an award.
01:45:18 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Ooooh
01:45:35 <hppavilion[1]> boily: My Bertrand Russell award is funny, right?
01:46:19 <Phantom_Hoover> yes it was quite funny
01:46:33 <boily> it's a good award.
01:46:35 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: OK, good
01:46:55 <boily> a tautological award, that is given because you deserve it.
01:47:11 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yes, but the wording needs to change
01:47:25 <hppavilion[1]> The Tautology Award for Receiving a Tautology Award
01:47:37 <boily> that's better.
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01:48:01 <boily> . o O ( I want an Awardmushroom Award. what does it taste like? )
01:55:43 <int-e> its taste should be awarding (not to say rewarding).
01:56:06 <tromp_> hi int-e. did you get some new result on laver tables?
01:56:59 <int-e> nothing new... I can prove that we actually get shelves...
01:57:36 <tromp_> ah. i see...
01:57:39 <int-e> and I have proved maybe half of that in Isabelle.
01:59:50 <boily> laver tables and mushroomy awards: a vegetarian dashi.
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02:08:38 <hppavilion[1]> Reals = 1D
02:08:41 <hppavilion[1]> Complexes = 2D
02:09:02 <hppavilion[1]> Quaternions = 4D, Octonions = 8D, Sedenions = 16D
02:09:32 <hppavilion[1]> I've also heard of some sort of Hexions = 6D, but there aren't any useful Trinions = 3D
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02:09:58 <hppavilion[1]> Let's go in weirder directions
02:10:10 <hppavilion[1]> Unit = 0D
02:10:28 <hppavilion[1]> ??? = -1D
02:10:54 <boily> [EXPUNGED]
02:13:15 * hppavilion[1] names ALL the sets of numbers
02:13:37 * hppavilion[1] also gives many of them nice blackboard bold symbols
02:15:53 <oerjan> -1D is the empty set hth
02:19:27 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/negative+thinking hth
02:20:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Ah, that makes sense
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02:44:37 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
02:44:56 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAA?
02:45:06 <oerjan> NOOOOCLOOOOG
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02:45:41 <boily> oh.
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02:45:54 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
02:46:04 <boily> fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOT!
02:46:05 * oerjan suddenly ponders the wisdom of idling in the channel
02:46:28 * boily will update the wisdom when he gets home. probably Monday, if he has time.
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02:48:41 <Cale> I remember a friend of mine in university showed me an esoteric language which was similar to befunge, except that your code was segmented into connected components, "rafts" which could be pushed around as the program ran by appropriate instructions.
02:48:53 <Cale> I forget the name of it, I wonder if anyone would recognise it
02:49:03 <hppavilion[1]> Has anyone adapted FFF to work for less traditional units?
02:49:17 <hppavilion[1]> Not traditional
02:49:17 <hppavilion[1]> everyday
02:49:17 <hppavilion[1]> For example, what's an FFF pascal?
02:50:08 <oerjan> apparently there are now just 3 confirmed living people born in the 19th century.
02:51:59 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose Fahrenheit should be included
02:52:03 <boily> hppavilion[1]: one ounce per furlong per fortnight per fortnight?
02:52:23 <hppavilion[1]> boily: That works
02:52:40 <hppavilion[1]> 8 m/s/s/s (8 m/s^3)
02:55:20 <oerjan> Cale: well no relevant hits on "raft" or "rafts" on the wiki
02:56:06 <oerjan> it rings a bell, but do something with moving pieces and otherwise not very befungey, which i also have forgotten the name of
02:56:11 <oerjan> *to something
02:56:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i'm pretty sure Fahrenheit died long ago hth
02:56:54 <oerjan> >_>
02:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: You clearly have not been to America
02:57:28 <oerjan> of course i have
02:57:42 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well you didn't pay attention
02:57:43 <oerjan> three times
02:57:46 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I was born here
02:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: And I have managed to condition myself to use SI units automatically
02:58:01 <oerjan> or wait, four.
02:58:32 <oerjan> (although two of them were passing through on the one trip)
02:58:47 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But I haven't been able to shake Fahrenheit; I simply can't take a temperature in Celsius and lookup about how warm it is
02:59:09 <oerjan> below 0 is freezing, above 100 is boiling hth
02:59:18 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well duh
03:00:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I simply always think in terms of Fahrenheit; if you tell me it's 30 degrees Celsius, at best I will do the conversion, at worst I'll ask you to give me the temperature again
03:00:35 <hppavilion[1]> Granted, I live in alaska, so usually the temperature is just "cold", but when I DO use temperature it's always Fahrenheit
03:00:56 <hppavilion[1]> Anyone feel like deriving weird units?
03:01:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHOTGUN CHICKEN).
03:01:25 <oerjan> i recommend inverse femtobarns, those are pretty weird.
03:01:28 <hppavilion[1]> The Kirk is used for measuring space dilation and clocks in at 1 meter/meter
03:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> It can also be used for speed for those that hate everyone around them
03:03:00 <oerjan> there are the obvious, like Wolfram for ego and Hitler for evil.
03:03:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Wolfram for ego?
03:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Also, I was going for SI-derived units
03:03:47 <oerjan> i thought that was well-established.
03:04:35 <oerjan> Tesla. i mean, it's already SI but _damn_.
03:06:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The international hub of solid matrices | Contains only free ranging moons | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | The overdone city meme has RISEN from is burial place in Truth or Consequences (not Hot Springs) in search of BRAINS.
03:06:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The international hub of solid matrices | Contains only free ranging moons | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | The overdone city meme has RISEN from its burial place in Truth or Consequences (not Hot Springs) in search of BRAINS.
03:13:51 <hppavilion[1]> Cale: It wouldn't happen to be Funciton, would it?
03:14:42 <Cale> I don't think so
03:20:13 <Cale> It was one character per instruction in a 2D grid, and when the program was first loaded, the orthogonally adjacent connected bunches of instructions would be determined and grouped together into "rafts", and then there were instructions which would cause the raft they were in to move up/down/left/right, I think so long as they weren't bumping into another raft (so they could steer themselves around against the whitespace background)
03:21:08 <Cale> and so two rafts could come together to allow control to flow from one to the other, and then perhaps separate again later
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03:32:22 <fizzie> Ub.
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03:33:26 <fizzie> There's the 'got.
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03:59:00 <shachaf> copumpkin: cocktailpumpkin
03:59:31 <shachaf> copumpkin: what if i sent you a book containing that thing
03:59:36 <shachaf> copumpkin: would you be likely to read it
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05:41:55 <shachaf> `? itymology
05:42:40 <HackEgo> Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
05:43:09 <shachaf> `? oerjan
05:43:10 <HackEgo> Your retired mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
05:45:07 <shachaf> i was going to add "itymologist" but i can't find a place to fit it in tdnh
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07:18:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
07:18:41 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an equivalent of LaTeX for making MIDI music?
07:19:30 <deltab> textual music formats? there are many
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08:07:36 <hppavilion[1]> Here's a rather interesting idea
08:07:39 <hppavilion[1]> Gap Music
08:08:06 <hppavilion[1]> Start with a completely random ordering of chords and eliminate some of them until it sounds good
08:11:28 <xfix> `? 0
08:11:42 <HackEgo> 702 matching entries found.
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08:15:01 <xfix> `? haskell
08:15:06 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
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08:15:57 <xfix> `? c
08:15:59 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
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08:28:19 <xfix> `` echo 4 8 15 16 23 42 > "wisdom/6 random numbers"
08:28:28 <xfix> `? 6 random numbers
08:29:10 <HackEgo> 6 random numbers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
08:29:16 <HackEgo> No output.
08:29:42 <xfix> `? 6 random numbers
08:29:44 <HackEgo> 4 8 15 16 23 42
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10:11:47 <gamemanj> so apparently my program thinks zzo38's munching squares program likes the value "d2" a lot.
10:12:17 <gamemanj> And has thus peppered all the "potential jump / potential copy" lists with various placements of d2.
10:12:31 <gamemanj> And has thus given up on trying to use immediate values.
10:19:21 <gamemanj> It seems it's found an excuse, somewhere, to pepper memory with D2.
10:46:14 -!- tsumegirl has changed nick to izabera.
10:50:12 <gamemanj> Programs with > 2,300 instructions tend to run into problems due to the memory required for storing the range of possible states at a given instruction, even with some accuracy-vs-speed tradeoffs towards speed (said optimizations likely being the cause of the 'd2' problem)
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10:56:49 <gamemanj> It seems the tracer only works relatively well on structured programs that do not use speed-code. i.e. None of them.
10:59:25 <gamemanj> I think BytePusher emulation speedups may only be reasonably achievable using JITs.
11:00:04 <hppavilion[1]> An extreme case is the Toccata Grande Cromatica by early-19th-century American composer Anthony Philip Heinrich, which uses note values as short as 2,048ths; however, the context shows clearly that these notes have one beam more than intended, so they should really be 1,024th notes.[4]
11:00:11 <hppavilion[1]> ...
11:00:16 <hppavilion[1]> "Really"
11:01:20 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: yay for mangled wording!
11:01:49 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: ?
11:02:15 <gamemanj> ...well, you were commenting on the "really" being there when it's a statement of opinion, correct?
11:02:29 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: No
11:02:33 <gamemanj> Then what?
11:03:28 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I was pointing out that, for any reasonable duration of a whole note, the difference between a 2048th and 1024th note is imperceptible, AND it's impossible to reliably play either one anyway
11:04:03 <gamemanj> why on earth would someone use such values, then?
11:04:15 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I have no idea
11:04:53 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: The article is expressing how the use of 2048th notes is pretty extreme, but that there is one extra flag so it's actually 1024th notes, which is somehow more reasonable
11:05:10 <gamemanj> I prefer 1/32 notes.
11:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Keep in mind, a whole note is 1 second iirc, meaning a 1024th note is less than a millisecond long
11:05:58 <gamemanj> Then it would sound like a click.
11:08:36 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yeah
11:08:59 <xfix> ... does HackEgo seriously run a new Linux kernel when you run a command. Wow.
11:10:13 <hppavilion[1]> xfix: ?
11:10:27 <hppavilion[1]> xfix: Are you talking about how it lacks internal state?
11:10:39 <xfix> No wonder why it reacts so slowly...
11:11:02 <hppavilion[1]> xfix: If that's what you mean, "a new linux kernel" is the most wrong you could possibly get
11:11:13 <hppavilion[1]> xfix: It's a new shell instance. Not an entirely new kernel.
11:11:19 <int-e> ?!
11:11:19 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
11:11:19 <gamemanj> `dmesg
11:11:32 <int-e> it's a uml thing, it *is* a substantial part of the kernel
11:11:52 <hppavilion[1]> xfix: Also, keep in mind, the use of multi-shell allows multiple people to use HackEgo at once, which makes it scalable
11:12:02 <HackEgo> Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset \ Initializing cgroup subsys cpu \ Initializing cgroup subsys cpuacct \ Linux version 3.13.0-umlbox (hackbot@codu) (gcc version 4.7.2 (Debian 4.7.2-5) ) #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 \ On node 0 totalpages: 65855 \ free_area_init_node: node 0, pgdat 60318390, node_mem_map 60fd4000 \ Normal zone: 901 pages used
11:12:16 <gamemanj> Hmph. Not telling me the current system time.
11:12:18 <gamemanj> `uptime
11:12:42 <HackEgo> ​ 10:12:38 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01
11:12:46 <gamemanj> That proves it.
11:12:50 <gamemanj> It's starting a new kernel.
11:12:52 <gamemanj> "up 0 min"
11:14:38 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Up 0 min == no uptime. If it was reusing the same kernel instance, it would keep the uptime.
11:14:59 <int-e> xfix: in any case its host is becoming worse and worse... it used to be reasonably reactive. UML should boot up very quickly if everything is in memory...
11:15:17 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Wait, an entire new kernel?
11:15:29 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: By the look of it.
11:15:31 <hppavilion[1]> Like, practically a cold boot?
11:15:37 <int-e> user mode linux is a linux kernel running on a linux system
11:15:43 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Kind of. Remember that it's UML, as int-e says.
11:16:02 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Which UML is this? I'm reading "Universal Markup Language"
11:16:16 <int-e> I just expanded it for you.
11:16:28 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: User Mode Linux. Basically a kernel made to run in a kernel - a step between containerization and a VM.
11:16:38 <xfix> `cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/boot_id
11:16:54 <xfix> `cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/boot_id
11:17:07 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Ah
11:18:10 <gamemanj> I doubt "init" is even installed - such a thing would require a very stripped-down init for performance reasons.
11:18:29 <HackEgo> 6d8b8bcc-a466-439b-ba68-a959936a8ebe
11:18:31 <xfix> `ps aux > ps
11:18:34 <HackEgo> 589120e0-8745-44a1-9d3a-28a933a13ec6
11:18:36 <HackEgo> error: unsupported option (BSD syntax) \ \ Usage: \ ps [options] \ \ Try 'ps --help <simple|list|output|threads|misc|all>' \ or 'ps --help <s|l|o|t|m|a>' \ for additional help text. \ \ For more details see ps(1).
11:18:37 <xfix> `run ps aux > ps
11:18:41 <gamemanj> Different boot IDs...
11:18:51 <HackEgo> No output.
11:19:02 <gamemanj> `cat ps
11:19:24 <HackEgo> USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 1.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 10:18 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 10:18 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 10:18 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?
11:19:30 <xfix> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/a00724d0cc96/ps
11:19:43 <gamemanj> Notice it's referring to /init...
11:19:51 <gamemanj> that doesn't seem like a normal init's position on the disk.
11:20:05 <gamemanj> `file /init
11:20:16 <HackEgo> ​/init: ERROR: cannot open `/init' (No such file or directory)
11:20:55 <gamemanj> `mount
11:20:55 <xfix> 5000 291 85.0 0.0 344 16 ? R 10:18 0:00 cat
11:20:59 <HackEgo> none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host
11:21:00 <xfix> Although, it did notice "cat" process.
11:21:24 <gamemanj> xfix: So it might not be rebooting for every command... or it might be the wrong cat process.
11:21:35 <int-e> `uname -a
11:21:38 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
11:21:49 <xfix> But that's weird, why cat didn't have arguments.
11:21:53 <xfix> Yeah, it's a different one.
11:22:12 <gamemanj> xfix: I wrote my cat after it came up with "No output.", definitely a different cat process
11:22:20 <xfix> To be exact, this one: sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps aux > ps' | cat
11:22:22 <gamemanj> Probably some internal part of HackEgo
11:22:54 <gamemanj> en_NZ. Well, now we have no doubts as to HackEgo's hosting location.
11:23:22 <gamemanj> Also notice the "type hostfs" mounts.
11:23:25 <int-e> I expected Canada.
11:23:27 <int-e> :P
11:24:51 <gamemanj> The UML install seems to borrow files from the "real" host filesystem, since having a separate install for the system is kind of wasteful (Docker, I'm looking at you)...
11:25:11 <int-e> (I'm pretty sure it is Canada. That's where the ISP-whose-name-shall-not-be-said is located. Also that's what whois says for HackEgo's IP address.)
11:25:30 <gamemanj> Who knows? :)
11:26:08 <int-e> why wouldn't you borrow parts of the host... they become easier to update that way
11:26:29 <gamemanj> int-e: Well, I would.
11:26:31 <int-e> "docker" has a totally different philosophy.
11:26:44 <int-e> also I don't quite get what the point of docker is...
11:26:55 <int-e> ...since it fails at proper isolation.
11:28:12 <gamemanj> Here's how HackEgo seems to work: 1. command gets entered in 2. UML with "bare" initrd (could even be using ASM and syscalls) and extremely minimal setup boots, 3. The init performs magic (TM) and starts the command.
11:29:06 <gamemanj> idea: cat /proc/1/exe > extracted-init
11:29:18 <gamemanj> though it'll probably fail due to permissions. :(
11:29:39 <int-e> But I get the point where they say that every component brings its own dependencies and therefore will not change its behavior when transferred betwenn hosts. No missing libraries on the host system, no conflicting versions... all coupled with the attitude that bandwidth and storage are essentially free.
11:30:04 <int-e> (I'm sure it sometimes goes wrong when you change kernel versions.)
11:33:49 <gamemanj> (Well, if syscalls get dropped or are made incompatible, it would probably go wrong. But usually versioning problems stay in userland AFAIK.)
11:37:52 <int-e> gamemanj: you could always look at source code: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/src/tip/init.c
11:38:11 <gamemanj> ah, that explains it!
11:40:40 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I have invented a musical poem
11:40:52 <hppavilion[1]> One of those really short ones
11:41:06 <hppavilion[1]> (like the i-with-fingerprint or three-humped-m)
11:42:11 <int-e> hah. echo init | cpio -H newc -o | gzip -9c > umlbox-initrd.gz ... that's quite minimal.
11:42:31 <hppavilion[1]> "Insufficient Permissions"
11:42:44 <hppavilion[1]> It's basically just a half note where the ellipse is a "©"
11:43:03 <gamemanj> int-e: Presumably init is linked statically, then?
11:43:09 <int-e> gamemanj: of course.
11:44:11 <int-e> `file /init
11:44:45 <HackEgo> ​/init: ERROR: cannot open `/init' (No such file or directory)
11:45:10 <gamemanj> Tried that.
11:48:17 <int-e> `ls /opt
11:49:32 <HackEgo> No output.
11:58:50 <int-e> `which ghc
11:59:37 <HackEgo> No output.
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13:05:49 <oerjan> eep forgot the idling idea.
13:06:40 <oerjan> oh well only a couple hours missing.
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13:22:03 <int-e> oerjan: oh you missed so much...
13:22:35 <int-e> oerjan: http://sprunge.us/hNYF
13:22:59 <oerjan> shocking
13:27:24 <oerjan> @tell xfix <xfix> `run ps aux > ps <-- you probably want to use | paste
13:27:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:27:36 <xfix> Okay.
13:27:55 <xfix> `run ps aux | paste
13:28:06 <oerjan> saves you a step
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13:28:44 * oerjan looks for HackEgo's oiling can
13:28:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.346
13:29:00 <xfix> Nice.
13:30:00 <oerjan> you're welcome.
13:31:14 * oerjan wonders something
13:31:16 <oerjan> `paste -
13:31:32 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/-
13:31:40 <oerjan> nah.
13:31:50 <xfix> That's... useful?
13:32:06 <xfix> `len Goodbye, world.
13:32:13 <HackEgo> 15 codepoints
13:32:25 <oerjan> xfix: i was just wondering if it somehow supported the - for stdin syntax, but no. (not really surprising.)
13:32:45 <xfix> Considering STDIN is mostly broken, it wouldn't be that useful.
13:32:46 <xfix> `cat
13:33:02 <oerjan> i suppose.
13:33:17 <HackEgo> No output.
13:34:18 <Taneb> My list of things to do after exams now has 15 things in it
13:36:45 <oerjan> Taneb: careful, or you'll start doing more exams to procrastinate the list tdnh
13:40:31 <Taneb> I know, that's a real problem
13:40:45 <Taneb> I did one yesterday and I already have 6 more lined up
13:41:02 <oerjan> scary
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14:05:45 <fizzie> The en_NZ thing had some sort of a point.
14:05:50 <fizzie> I forget exactly what.
14:06:00 <fizzie> But it had nothing to do with geography.
14:07:11 <fizzie> 2013-11-04 07:05:47 <oerjan> zzo38: we asked Gregor to set it so that HackEgo could use utf-8, and he chose en_NZ to be funny
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14:07:16 <fizzie> Well, a "point".
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14:08:24 <oerjan> well he _could_ have chosen zh_ZH or whatever it's called.
14:08:37 <oerjan> (might have to install it first.)
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14:14:05 <fizzie> `` locale -a | paste
14:14:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.14520
14:14:39 <fizzie> (New feature to cut down on writes: compare the paste result with everything in the paste dir, and reuse the old file if it already exists.)
14:14:51 <int-e> `le/rn paste/"Paste" is a short story by Henry James. Its contents has been cut into pieces and distributed over numerous tin boxes on the World Wide Web, little pearls of wisdom buried among ordinary pastes.
14:14:57 <HackEgo> Learned «paste»
14:14:59 <int-e> (what an odd story)
14:15:17 <myname> wat
14:15:22 <fizzie> `` LC_ALL=zh_TW.utf8 ls /nosuchfile
14:15:25 <HackEgo> ls: 無法存取 /nosuchfile: 沒有此一檔案或目錄
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14:19:34 <oerjan> `` sed -i s/has/have/ wisdom/paste
14:19:43 <HackEgo> No output.
14:21:24 <int-e> `? grammar
14:21:29 <HackEgo> Grammar is just a subset of syntax.
14:22:10 <int-e> That fails to capture its adversarial nature.
14:22:20 <myname> lol... Number = [(43 - 2 * Lowest Value * Second Lowest Value) mod 5] + 3
14:22:21 <myname> dead simple
14:22:33 <oerjan> `learn Grammar is the evil subset of syntax.
14:22:38 <oerjan> hth
14:22:38 <HackEgo> Relearned 'grammar': Grammar is the evil subset of syntax.
14:23:02 <int-e> works for me
14:23:55 <oerjan> `learn Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax.
14:24:09 <HackEgo> Relearned 'grammar': Grammar is just the evil subset of syntax.
14:24:46 <myname> so grammar is to (subset, syntax) as i am to (twin, perl)?
14:24:58 <oerjan> `? myname
14:25:00 <HackEgo> myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.
14:25:08 <oerjan> apparently.
14:25:24 <myname> okay
14:25:46 <oerjan> "Actually, when you do a study to test the effect of water on the cancer risk, the number of deaths from cancer is significantly lower in the control group."
14:25:54 <oerjan> seen on the iwc forum.
14:26:17 <coppro> iwc?
14:26:23 <oerjan> irregular webcomic!
14:26:30 <myname> so... people who don't have cancer are less likely to die from cancer?
14:26:31 <coppro> w
14:26:43 <oerjan> myname: i think you're misinterpreting
14:27:24 <oerjan> to clarify, the previous paragraph: "Really? Aren't you sure Water is carcinogenic, too? After all, 100% of all cancer patients have been exposed to it. "
14:27:38 <int-e> the control group wouldn't get any water.
14:27:39 <myname> oh
14:27:50 <int-e> and won't die of cancer
14:27:57 <int-e> (almost certainly)
14:32:10 <int-e> This is similar to the logic that lets you conclude that infertility is hereditary. (If your parents didn't have any children, you won't have any either.)
14:34:15 <int-e> (now I wonder how I came to think that they're similar... I guess it's that they combine a medical aspect and tautological/vacuous reasoning)
14:51:43 <oerjan> medical research can be hazardous to your health.
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15:52:23 <fizzie> TIL: JSON string syntax has an escape character for the forward slash. (But why.)
15:53:37 <fizzie> (It's legal unescaped too, but "\/" is also allowed for "/".)
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16:03:36 <Cale> fizzie: In Javascript's string notation, escaping any character which isn't otherwise special results in just that character.
16:04:00 <fizzie> But that's not JSON.
16:04:08 <fizzie> It's specifically just the /, not any other character.
16:04:15 <Cale> Oh, that's interesting.
16:04:31 <Cale> I would have expected them to just steal the string syntax wholesale.
16:04:34 <fizzie> Although that might still be the underlying reason, if (for some reason) there's a lot of use of "\/" in JS strings.
16:04:38 <fizzie> http://www.json.org/string.gif
16:04:49 <Cale> weird
16:05:34 <fizzie> Maybe it's to make / not jealous of \.
16:07:28 <FireFly> fizzie: oh, that explains why I've seen "\/" a lot in JSON
16:07:36 <FireFly> Still not sure why people would do that though...
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17:30:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * M654 * New user account
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17:39:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:M654]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47033 * M654 * (+118) Created page with "Heya, I'm m654. My GitHub page is [http://m654z.github.io here], so heck it out if you want to see my newest projects."
17:47:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:M654]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47034&oldid=47033 * M654 * (+1)
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18:03:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Shard]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47035&oldid=47029 * SMA * (+57) added ShaFuck link
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18:09:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tellurium]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47036 * M654 * (+2480) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Tellurium |paradigms=imperative |author=[[m654|User:M654]] |year=[[:Category:2016|2016]] |typesys= |memsys=cell-based |refimpl=[https://github.com/m65..."
18:10:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tellurium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47037&oldid=47036 * M654 * (+11)
18:11:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[M654]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47038 * M654 * (+23) Redirected page to [[User:M654]]
18:12:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:M654]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47039&oldid=47034 * M654 * (+25)
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19:13:42 <impomatic> Is there a nice bit-twiddling hack to extend a bit to fill all higher bits in an int?
19:14:44 <impomatic> E.g. 0000001010101010 -> 1111111010101010 extending bit 10 to fill the higher bits.
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19:21:14 <fizzie> impomatic: It's not *that* nice, but you could make one out of the (mostly obvious) https://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#RoundUpPowerOf2 by leaving out the v--;/v++; and adding a orig_v |= ~v; at the end.
19:22:49 <fizzie> (It'd just go 0000001010101010 -> 0000001111111111 -> 1111110000000000 -> 1111111010101010 in the obvious manner.)
19:23:13 <impomatic> Thanks :-)
19:25:07 <impomatic> Maybe better to stick with IF (numb & 0x400) {numb -= 0x800} or whatever I'm currently using.
19:26:27 <fizzie> Oh, you had a particular position you want? I assumed a general "invert all leading zeros left of the most significant set bit".
19:28:33 <fizzie> For the fixed-position case, "(numb << K) >> K" is possibly the simplest thing to do, but only if you happen to have access to a >> that's reliably an arithmetic right shift.
19:29:41 <impomatic> I'll take a look what TCC does
19:29:53 <impomatic> (after I've had an ice cream!)
19:30:31 <fizzie> Standard C's >> is implementation-defined for a signed, negative number, though I think the most common implementation is an arithmetic shift.
19:31:07 <fizzie> Not much of an improvement over the if, though.
19:32:31 <impomatic> No, I'll stick with if, but will test it out of curiosity :-)
19:46:55 <\oren\> ITS HAILING WTFOMGBBQ
19:47:08 <\oren\> `metar CYYZ
19:47:30 <deltab> I've seen \/ used to break up </script> within js so that it's not recognised by the html parser reading an embedded script
19:47:45 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metar: not found
19:48:35 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
19:49:12 <lambdabot> CYYZ 151821Z 31024G31KT 15SM -SHRA SCT042TCU BKN084 04/M01 A2987 RMK TCU4AC2 SLP122
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20:04:20 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
20:04:21 <lambdabot> EGLL 151850Z AUTO 33004KT 300V360 9999 NCD 15/04 Q1021 NOSIG
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21:12:57 <int-e> sigh, I hate it when I'm playing a point and click adventure and it wants me to hold a button for 2 seconds for something to happen.
21:13:55 -!- xfix has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
21:14:03 <shachaf> Does that happen often?
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21:16:44 <int-e> well, occasionally
21:20:50 <int-e> actually going beyond mere point&click happens quite often... but it can be done in unsurprising ways, like pulling levers, or turning gears...
21:23:51 <f10d4> I calculated all nontrivial elementary 1d ca's periodic oscillators
21:24:22 <f10d4> trying to prove turing-completeness of some ca-s
21:24:30 <f10d4> other that rule-110
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22:44:49 <b_jonas> hi
22:44:53 <b_jonas> fungot, how are you
22:44:53 <fungot> b_jonas: because afaik it's for breaking big s-exps up to make them less anonymous :o, i can turn on to make it
22:48:22 <b_jonas> how's your long weekend going so far, everyone?
22:48:56 <Taneb> Not very long
22:49:01 <Taneb> I had an exam yesterday and an exam tomorrow
22:50:32 <b_jonas> Taneb: I see. what's the exam about this time/
22:50:49 <Taneb> Yesterday's was coding theory, tomorrow's is character theory
22:51:14 <Taneb> Tuesday's is computation by graph transformation
22:51:36 <Taneb> Wednesday is cryptography, and also correctness of programs by construction
22:51:43 <Taneb> ...this is a lot of C's
22:51:50 <Taneb> Appropriately, I'm all at sea
22:52:47 <Taneb> And sincerely hoping I pass
22:58:32 <b_jonas> Those sound scary.
22:58:54 <b_jonas> Character theory especially, but the rest too.
22:59:33 <Taneb> My Thursday and Friday exams don't begin with C
22:59:41 <Taneb> Galois Theory and Topology
23:00:11 <b_jonas> Those at least sound slightly better, depending on what "topology" covers. It's a bit broad.
23:00:37 <shachaf> hopefully what topology covers is finite
23:00:44 <shachaf> or at least has a finite subcover
23:00:52 <Taneb> One would certainly hope so
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23:14:36 <b_jonas> Taneb: wait, you had a coding theory exam in the week-end?
23:14:42 <b_jonas> why are you having exams in the week-end?
23:14:47 <b_jonas> that only happened to me once
23:15:14 <b_jonas> six exams next week sounds like a lot though
23:16:40 <Taneb> b_jonas, I don't know, but Saturday exams are an uncommon but not unheard of thing here
23:18:39 <fizzie> I think we had Saturday exams as well. At least in the exam period schedule sheets -- not sure if I ever ended up in any. I think they tried to schedule the unpopular ones there.
23:18:55 <fizzie> (And what could be less popular than coding theory.)
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23:25:38 <b_jonas> Taneb, fizzie: ok
23:25:42 <b_jonas> `wisdom
23:25:45 <b_jonas> `? manometer
23:26:50 <HackEgo> manometer? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:26:50 <HackEgo> sweden//Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize.
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23:29:17 <b_jonas> `? major
23:29:19 <HackEgo> major? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:19 <b_jonas> `? every major
23:29:21 <HackEgo> every major? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:53 <b_jonas> `slashlearn every major/Just put me down as “undecided” – every major's terrible.
23:30:08 <HackEgo> Learned «every major»
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