←2016-05-19 2016-05-20 2016-05-21→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:10 <Taneb> It's concievable I've been within 400 miles of Mountain View
00:01:11 <fizzie> "AMTRAK is like the Orient Express of the USA. It'll be a special time."
00:01:18 <pikhq> Have you been in the Bay Area?
00:01:53 <fizzie> Seems to be something called the California Zephyr.
00:02:02 <Taneb> pikhq, not as far as I'm aware
00:02:14 <Taneb> I remember Universal Studios which apparently is in Los Angeles
00:02:14 <pikhq> Alas.
00:02:20 <pikhq> Yeah, it is.
00:02:20 <Taneb> I was only 3 years of age
00:02:27 <quintopia> who is a good drummer?
00:02:50 <shachaf> Taneb: is it immoral for me to live in the united states
00:02:50 <Taneb> That is an odd question to ask, quintopia
00:03:10 <quintopia> would it be more or less odd to answer?
00:03:18 <Taneb> shachaf, it isn't immoral to me, you live there of your own free will
00:03:18 <quintopia> i'll take that as your answering "not me"
00:03:24 <quintopia> shachaf: how bout you?
00:03:37 <shachaf> I'm not a drummer at all.
00:03:43 <shachaf> I dislike drums.
00:03:57 <shachaf> Taneb: is it immoral to me, though
00:03:59 <quintopia> fizzello! drums?
00:04:07 <Taneb> shachaf, that depends on your morals
00:09:37 <pikhq> Is it immoral if you aren't a citizen of another country and thus have real issues living anywhere else?
00:10:05 <shachaf> I have all sorts of citizenships, though.
00:10:58 <shachaf> Hmm, but the other countries have mandatory military service.
00:11:43 <pikhq> Sure, but IIRC you've got the right to live anywhere in Schengen, so hey.
00:12:07 <Taneb> I have two with the vague possibility of a third
00:12:18 <Taneb> None of which as far as I am aware have mandatory military service
00:12:24 <shachaf> Yes, but I think the exemption specifically relies on me living in the US?
00:12:27 <shachaf> I'm not actually sure.
00:12:32 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], summary of my collated research on today's xkcd:
00:12:33 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> after extensive research i have concluded that the joke is that as it is spring there are rabbits around and people take pictures of the cute little ones
00:12:33 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> half of the joke appears to have been left out of the comic and the remainder has been extrapolated grotesquely by randall's blackbird-like comedic timing
00:12:44 <fizzie> No drums.
00:12:59 <Taneb> quintopia, I have a unicycle if it helps
00:14:01 <quintopia> Taneb: will that help us start an esoteric band
00:14:04 <pikhq> shachaf: Huh. I woulda figured it would be on you not living in the countries in question.
00:14:20 <Taneb> quintopia, I believe bands are made more esoteric if they have a unicycle
00:14:20 <pikhq> But then I am in no way an expert on mandatory military service requirements in other countries.
00:14:26 <shachaf> pikhq: Did you ever get emails from Skyrock Adventures?
00:14:34 <pikhq> Not to my knowledge.
00:14:50 <Taneb> However, I cannot yet ride said unicycle
00:15:03 <quintopia> Taneb: more eccentric, certainly. more esoteric though?
00:15:11 <pikhq> I would certainly hope you couldn't get in a situation where you would be forced to engage in mandatory military service in two countries *simultaneously*...
00:15:22 <Taneb> quintopia, only a select few people can ride a unicycle
00:15:34 <shachaf> Is a select few fewer than few?
00:15:35 <quintopia> none of which are here?
00:15:38 <Taneb> pikhq, especially if said countries were at war
00:15:46 <fizzie> In Finland, the military service is optional if you have a second nationality and haven't been living in Finland for the last seven years or more.
00:15:51 <Taneb> shachaf, not necessarily, but it is more prestigious
00:16:07 <pikhq> fizzie: Which is only half the situation for shachaf, unfortunately.
00:16:16 <pikhq> I haven't the foggiest clue how that works for Israel.
00:16:35 <shachaf> fizzie: Oh, is that true? But what happens when you move to Finland for seven years?
00:17:04 <Taneb> What if you are stationed in Finland while in another nation's military
00:17:26 <Phantom_Hoover> you work a lot of overtime
00:17:52 <pikhq> Taneb: That typically is not considered "living in the country", bizarrely.
00:17:56 <fizzie> shachaf: If you move back to Finland while still <= 30 years old, you'll need to do it; if older than that, they'll just forget about it.
00:18:03 <shachaf> OK.
00:18:16 <shachaf> Then I can just wait [redacted] years and then move to Finland, I guess.
00:18:31 <quintopia> shachaf: so you originated in finland?
00:18:43 <quintopia> shachaf: you have one of those ridiculous names by birthright?
00:18:49 <shachaf> No, fizzie did.
00:20:27 <fizzie> (Apparently the 7-year rule is also just the threshold after which it's automatic. You can apply for an exemption even if you've been away from Finland less than that, if you're sufficiently free of connections to Finland.)
00:20:44 <fizzie> I have just the boring one nationality.
00:20:59 <pikhq> Alas, I only have US citizenship. So boring.
00:21:12 <quintopia> i should have followed this convo more closely
00:21:14 <quintopia> so lost
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00:21:30 <pikhq> Rather better than a US green card though. Many of the related obligations without many of the rights.
00:21:48 <Taneb> I think I will head to bed now
00:21:50 <Taneb> Goodnight!
00:22:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i keep meaning to get an irish passport
00:22:06 <Phantom_Hoover> just for the sake of having one
00:22:28 <oerjan> `? oerjan
00:22:31 <HackEgo> Your retired mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antidiluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a passion. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
00:22:38 <oerjan> shachaf: wat.
00:22:46 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, if the UK leaves the EU I'll be doing my best to get a Netherlands passport
00:22:51 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/anti/ante/' wisdom/oerjan
00:22:54 <shachaf> oerjan: well, you've been known to kick people who flood the channel
00:22:55 <HackEgo> No output.
00:22:59 <Phantom_Hoover> ooh good point i should get on that
00:23:11 <fizzie> If the UK leaves the EU, I wonder whether they'll kick me out.
00:23:18 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, getting a Netherlands passport?
00:23:22 <Phantom_Hoover> god the border situation's going to be a clusterfuck once that happens
00:23:33 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, you live in the uk?
00:23:50 <pikhq> fizzie: That would be such a clusterfuck.
00:24:06 <oerjan> shachaf: TOO LATE
00:24:12 <pikhq> Though, the UK being in Schengen is not directly related to them being in the EU.
00:24:28 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, since January last year.
00:24:32 <pikhq> It's possible they could leave the EU but still be in their weird half-Schengen state.
00:24:41 <shachaf> oerjan: apparently you mildly dislike puns with a passion too hth
00:25:07 <Phantom_Hoover> is ireland in schengen? presumably not since in practical terms the borders work the same as the UK
00:25:22 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, it's got the same deal as the UK
00:25:22 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, hmm, where
00:25:51 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Half-Schengen. They're on the same bizarro thing where they agree to many of the terms such as the right to residence for Schengen citizens, but not the open border.
00:26:15 <oerjan> shachaf: only puns masquerading as stupid typos hth
00:26:23 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: London.
00:27:03 <shachaf> fizzie: I heard the new London office was going to be pretty good.
00:27:32 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, I mean, there's two.
00:27:50 <fizzie> shachaf: There's the one we're moving in soon, that's just a boring old office building rented from someone.
00:28:11 <fizzie> shachaf: And then there's the new building Google's building from scratch, that's supposed to be incredible and all that.
00:28:23 <fizzie> Of course the latter doesn't actually exist.
00:28:26 <shachaf> What, they're still building it?
00:28:28 <shachaf> It's been years.
00:28:32 <fizzie> They haven't started yet.
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00:28:38 <fizzie> There's an impressive hole in the ground, though.
00:28:48 <pikhq> Well, y'know, it's gotta be web-scale.
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00:29:17 <fizzie> The story I heard was, the plans were insufficiently awesome and had to be scrapped.
00:29:34 <fizzie> Has to be true, since that's what Daily Mail says: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2950181/Google-scraps-boring-plans-London-HQ-Internet-giant-s-boss-Larry-Page-orders-architects-design-building-worthy-standing-100-years.html
00:29:39 <Phantom_Hoover> ah for fuck's sake i think i need mine and my parents' birth certificates to get an irish passport
00:29:46 <pikhq> Sounds like Page.
00:30:33 <fizzie> The office that actually does exist is right next to the hole in the ground, though, so at least it'll be a short move if they eventually end up building something.
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00:42:59 <oerjan> fizzie: now i'm thinking of those sinkholes...
01:02:58 <boily> sinkholes. deep into the ground, a little bit darker than they ought to be. than they have the right to be. shouldn't they be lightened more by the light source you carry?
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01:03:32 <boily> a flashlight should do its job, not bring out too many shadows, right by the corner of your vision.
01:04:25 <boily> the descent is easy, even if the rock is clammy. steps hewn so many years ago are uneven, but wide. you won't slip, or if you do, you'll be close enough to the ground to not break too many bones.
01:05:10 <boily> or you hope so. the ground isn't there, and you fear it has forsaken you. not even a geological laugh to remind you of its presence. it smirks, in the darkness.
01:05:25 <oerjan> shoily. i assume there's a reference.
01:08:24 <boily> I may be in the act of reading a few SCPs...
01:08:37 <oerjan> that'd do it.
01:09:11 <oerjan> the flashlight reminded me of another one, the dimension hopper.
01:10:28 <oerjan> let's just say you shouldn't assume light is harmless.
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01:14:30 <boily> SCP-507 is a very well done article.
01:14:56 <boily> I was inspired by SCP-087, my all-time favourite. that one is gutwrenchterrifying.
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01:37:13 <oerjan> <shachaf> Oh, disliking bell peppers makes you quirky now? <-- definitely!
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01:40:18 <shachaf> oerjan: you know what else is quirky? editing your own wisdom entry hth
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01:41:16 <oerjan> `? evil
01:41:53 <HackEgo> evil? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:42:14 <oerjan> `? overlord
01:42:19 <oerjan> now where did i put it.
01:42:20 <HackEgo> Evil overlords do evil acts like taking over the world, kicking puppies, and changing their own wisdom entries.
01:42:25 <oerjan> ah there it was.
01:42:29 <oerjan> shachaf: ^
01:44:34 <Sgeo> Help I think my language nomadness is at a standstil
01:44:49 <Sgeo> I try to look at other languages but all I see is ways that they're bad because they're not Rust.
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01:45:34 <oerjan> Sgeo: how am i going to make a "rusted" pun when you type this fast tdnh
01:46:03 <oerjan> `? sgeolang
01:46:05 <HackEgo> Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM.
01:46:52 <Phantom_Hoover> how is this the first time i've heard of sgeolang
01:47:25 <oerjan> `learn Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
01:47:30 <HackEgo> Relearned 'sgeolang': Sgeolang used to change frequently, but eventually it rusted in place.
01:48:29 <Sgeo> I'm trying to look at Perl 6, but I keep getting hung up on its mutability model not being Rust's, and that roles suck compared to Rust traits
01:48:30 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: `wisdom uses a bad PRNG?
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01:49:06 <Phantom_Hoover> honestly i kind of assumed sgeo stopped jumping languages after i stopped paying attention to this channel
01:49:08 <Sgeo> A lot of other stuff I can almost forgive based on Perl 6 being dynamically typed
01:52:51 <Moon_> Does hackego allow sshing?
01:54:54 <shachaf> Sgeo: i think your language behavior may be the opposite of nomadness hth
01:55:05 <boily> Mhelloon_. you should try!
01:55:18 <shachaf> oerjan: `wisdom was created just the other day anyway
01:55:25 <shachaf> Sgeo: What about all the ways Rust is bad because it's not Haskell?
01:55:37 <shachaf> all it means is that you've grown old and set in your ways hth
01:56:18 <Moon_> `sh
01:56:22 <Moon_> `ssh
01:56:49 <HackEgo> No output.
01:56:49 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ssh: not found
01:57:19 <shachaf> `` hg log bin/wisdom | tac
01:57:28 <HackEgo> No output.
01:57:44 <oerjan> shocking
01:57:44 <shachaf> `` hg log bin/wisdom | grep date
01:57:46 <HackEgo> date: Tue May 03 23:17:41 2016 +0000 \ date: Mon Nov 16 02:53:18 2015 +0000 \ date: Mon Nov 16 02:52:06 2015 +0000 \ date: Mon Nov 16 02:50:09 2015 +0000 \ date: Mon Nov 16 02:40:16 2015 +0000 \ date: Thu Jul 02 15:13:01 2015 +0000 \ date: Thu Jul 02 15:06:48 2015 +0000 \ date: Sun Jun 21 02:4
01:57:53 <shachaf> `` hg log bin/wisdom | grep date | tail -n1
01:57:55 <HackEgo> date: Mon Jun 01 23:54:10 2015 +0000
01:58:03 <shachaf> see, it's less than a year old
01:58:24 <oerjan> !
01:58:47 <boily> shachaf: Rust is good, exactly because it isn't Haskell.
02:00:08 * oerjan quickly jumps into the bomb shelter
02:00:17 <Moon_> `? hackego
02:00:19 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
02:01:01 <shachaf> `? rust
02:01:03 <HackEgo> Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell.
02:01:07 <shachaf> rust is da bomb
02:07:45 <Sgeo> Rust fixes a lot of problems Haskell has IMO
02:10:51 <shachaf> Like rank-n types?
02:11:18 <Sgeo> Like annoying to use records
02:12:01 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/47ucw9/comparing_haskell_and_rust_which_to_choose_when/d0fphn2
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02:13:23 <shachaf> Rust Uses Simple Types
02:15:01 <Sgeo> Rust has type families and not fundeps, instead of both for historical reasons like Haskel
02:15:03 <Sgeo> Haskell
02:18:00 <oerjan> does it have injective type families, though
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03:11:31 * Sgeo has no idea what those are
03:12:06 <Sgeo> shachaf, I have been able to fake rank-n types in some circumstances, although it sucks
03:13:39 <Sgeo> I made a trait (like a Haskell class) representing forall a. (Reifies a b) => a -> b
03:13:51 <Sgeo> But I don't have a reasonable way to write closures that satisfy that
03:14:22 <Sgeo> I made a macro, but it doesn't close over stuff:
03:14:22 <Sgeo> https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/3d7f8449ea5ba136038a9c677e744004#file-haskell_reflection_2-rs-L157
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05:09:07 <zzo38> I have writen some designs for a kind of computer machine and I wrote about the video processor and blitter and so on. The blitter is not nearly as advanced as Amiga, though.
05:20:03 <zzo38> You could do memcpy(dest,src,n) as memblt(dest,1,src,1,n,0,MEMBLT_OPAQUE) and memset(s,c,n) as memblt(s,1,&c,0,n,0,MEMBLT_OPAQUE) for example.
05:20:41 <zzo38> Do you like this?
05:20:51 <zzo38> Do you know some things about computer hardware design?
05:22:35 <mad> I know some things
05:22:56 <mad> the general problem with blitters is that you need 3 times the memory bandwidth
05:23:28 <mad> once for reading the texture, once for writing to the framebuffer, and once for displaying to the screen
05:23:57 <zzo38> Unlike Amiga the blitter in my design uses up CPU cycles and cannot run simultaneously with the CPU. Also screen displaying is a separate component.
05:24:28 <zzo38> The video processor is clock interleaved with the CPU.
05:25:04 <mad> doesn't the amiga share the same ram for gfx and cpu&
05:25:05 <mad> ?
05:25:18 <mad> (or at least the amiga 500)
05:25:39 <zzo38> I don't know a lot about Amiga, but I think it does share some of the RAM.
05:26:00 <mad> yeah it has 2 types of ram... chip ram and fast ram
05:26:13 <mad> fast ram is fast because it's not shared with the video and sound hw :3
05:26:31 <zzo38> Yes, and only the Chip-RAM is shared.
05:26:54 <mad> do you have hw scrolling?
05:27:36 <zzo38> My own design is different; video and CPU are clock-interleaved so both have exclusive access to memory. CPU can run at double speed when video is disabled (note that video is normally enabled even during vblank, since the video processor executes instructions during vblank and hblank)
05:28:09 <mad> what generation of dram is your system designed around?
05:28:12 <zzo38> mad: Yes, the video processor runs a program which can write to the video registers in order to implement scrolling and so on
05:28:24 <mad> early c64 like dram or modern?
05:28:39 <mad> also, 8 bits? 16 bits? 32 bits?
05:28:50 <mad> 64 bits?
05:29:14 <zzo38> I haven't decided anything about DRAM yet, although it is 8-bits data, 32-bits address (audio memory is 16-bits data though)
05:29:42 <mad> doesn't it make sense to have vram if you have ram for audio?
05:29:55 <mad> or share the audio ram between gfx and sound?
05:31:11 <mad> 8-bit ram shared between cpu and gpu might not be fast enough to run a blitter
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05:31:25 <mad> unless you're doing it in 4 colors or 2 colors
05:32:29 <zzo38> The designs can change in future of course, although currently what I have for audio is that it uses separate memory and can run in parallel with CPU/video, so CPU cannot access it (you would have to use some kind of DMA transfer modes to do it I suppose)
05:33:02 <mad> some systems have no cpu access of vram either
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05:33:17 <mad> like.. genesis I think (though it has dma for that)
05:35:34 <mad> the issue I see is that dram runs at something like 3mhz
05:35:41 <mad> which leaves 1.5mhz for the gpu
05:36:22 <mad> for NTSC that's about 96 memory accesses per scanline
05:39:46 <mad> since the active region is about 75% of the width that's like (80% on paper + 5% overdraw or something like that), 72 cycles for the actually drawn pixels
05:40:40 <mad> which means you have to draw about 4 pixels worth of graphics per byte
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06:03:04 <mad> to get 16 colors you'd need either 16bit ram, separate cpu vs gpu ram, or more modern ram that's faster if subsequent accesses fall in the same page
06:03:14 <mad> or multiple ram banks on the same address pins
06:15:01 <mad> then to draw sprites you probably have to eat into your cpu cycles or leftover gpu cycles but that's not too bad if you don't have too many large objects :3
06:18:34 <Sgeo> I think Perl6 is bad at math
06:18:35 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> m: say (1+10i) ~~ (-∞..∞)
06:18:35 <Sgeo> <camelia> rakudo-moar e39ce3: OUTPUT«True␤»
06:18:36 <Sgeo> oops
06:18:50 <Sgeo> Gah I hate HexChat sometimes
06:18:59 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> m: say (1+10i) ~~ (-∞..∞)
06:19:06 <Sgeo> camelia> rakudo-moar e39ce3: OUTPUT«True␤»
06:25:20 <myname> for real? *scnr*
06:27:55 <mad> zzo38 : basically I've looked at this... it's hard to really have sprites on a 8bit system with shared gpu + cpu ram
06:28:06 <mad> tho c64 does it (barely)
06:30:44 <mad> and I guess the msx2 vdp does it but it has really few sprites and not very high bit depth
06:32:56 <pikhq> The C64 does it, but at the expense of the CPU not being able to read RAM as often while the screen is drawn.
06:33:52 <pikhq> The VIC ends up taking exclusive control of the bus at various points, which sucks.
06:35:12 <mad> yeah
06:35:37 <mad> the whole system is just kinda strapped for bandwidth
06:35:54 <mad> and it has to have an extra SRAM for the colors
06:38:47 <mad> one of the reasons the amiga can do more simply because the ram bus is 16bits instead of 8bits
06:39:21 <mad> (ok and also having proper cmos chips instead of slow nmos and enough chip space for control registers for everything :3 )
06:41:53 <zzo38> I have written the list of cycle accesses and that stuff
06:43:27 <zzo38> It is two clock cycles per pixel (which is what Digi-RGB (also another specification I made up) uses).
06:43:47 <zzo38> Here is what I have written so far: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/new.computer There is more but on paper and I have not written it into the computer yet.
06:44:57 <zzo38> As it turns out, I have exactly sixteen memory accesses needed per tile, which is what I needed.
06:45:57 <zzo38> Note that CPU and video are clock interleaved, so both have exclusive access to RAM.
06:48:54 <zzo38> Sprites are 8x8 or 8x16 and the attribute byte of a sprite consists of a 4-bit plane mask, a collision bit, a height bit, a occult bit, and a impostor bit.
06:52:51 <mad> 2 gpu clocks per pixel?
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06:53:01 <mad> which means 4 all in all?
06:54:08 <zzo38> Yes
06:54:31 <mad> that means you'd have to access ram @ 25mhz no?
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06:55:15 <zzo38> I don't know yet all of the speed, and the plans may change in future as I have said.
06:55:50 <mad> for 320x240x60, that's about 400x262x60 in terms of clock cycles if you cound hblank+vblank, that's 6.3mhz
06:55:54 <mad> pixel clock
06:56:39 <mad> which means it would have to be SRAM or something
06:57:15 <zzo38> I was thinking SRAM actually
06:57:53 <zzo38> Although changes are possible as it gets made up more, there can be whatever changes we consider necessary to correct it.
06:58:09 <mad> 640x480 quadruples this problem
06:58:27 <mad> unless it has a reduction in features
06:58:47 <zzo38> Yes, the frame rate could be reduced perhaps
06:58:59 <mad> on a lcd?
06:59:05 <mad> or you could interlace it
07:01:06 <zzo38> Yes interlacing is another possibility that I have thought of, but am unsure about it. However it does seem interlacing would clearly work fine with the video registers I have defined, as the display program could be defined for an interlaced display. However, I only intended 320x240 to be used for analog output while the other modes are only for LCD
07:03:18 <zzo38> However you have mentioned some problems so I could consider how to fix it
07:05:05 <mad> it's like they used all sorts of tricks on later systems so that they could do more colors and resolution
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07:05:50 <mad> mostly more memory bits and fast page dram (=faster if accesses fall on the same page) and multiple ram areas
07:07:12 <mad> it's kinda sad that dram just got more and more complex as it sped up
07:07:21 <mad> instead of staying simple and just speeding up
07:07:47 <zzo38> That's why I avoided it, because it is too complex
07:08:35 <mad> and sram sizes are still tiny and prices kinda hair raising last time I checked :D
07:09:00 <mad> tho psram might not be too bad
07:09:50 <zzo38> What does "psram" mean?
07:10:11 <mad> pseudo static ram
07:10:27 <mad> basically dram designed to have some characteristics of static ram
07:10:46 <zzo38> Yes that might work (if I can understand it better)
07:11:16 <mad> it varies from chip to chip I think but it goes from auto-refresh, to chips that have special layout with smaller rows so that they can be read with full accesses every time
07:11:56 <mad> and I remember reading about it being used in the first Iphones (presumably to get to market faster instead of dealing with the insane timings of DDR33456)
07:14:22 <mad> afaik the genesis has psram as well
07:16:07 <zzo38> OK
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07:54:25 <b_jonas> `? galss
07:54:27 <HackEgo> galss? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
07:54:30 <b_jonas> `? glass
07:54:32 <HackEgo> I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me.
07:54:57 <b_jonas> `slashlearn glass/I can eat glass and it doesn't hurt me. -- http://www.savagechickens.com/2016/05/new-diet.html
07:55:00 <HackEgo> Relearned «glass»
07:58:49 <zzo38> You could implement graphical displays as either 4-plane PseudoColor XYPixmap or 15-plane TrueColor ZPixmap.
08:04:49 <zzo38> Hopefully you could see how you can do both of these things, as well as imitating PC text mode (including cursor) and VT100, by the use of the system I have designed (I have updated the document a bit).
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08:55:27 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/xRhwA0M.jpg SPIRITS ARE ALLLWAAYS WITH YOOOUUU
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11:01:51 <fizzie> There's a warning on the menu saying "fish may contain bones", which sounds reasonable, but there's also another warning saying "olives may contain", and that's a bit more dubious.
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11:04:35 <int-e> ominous
11:05:19 -!- int-e has set topic: The international hub of solidity matrices | May contain | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
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11:43:13 <int-e> xhoily
11:48:32 <boily> alphabetint-ello!
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14:11:30 <izabera> i have an idea
14:11:58 <izabera> let's found the "committee for the code that's not 100% awful"
14:12:26 <izabera> then we can give away stickers that people can add to their readme on github
14:12:41 <izabera> like "approved by CCN100A"
14:14:14 <izabera> the number of stars on github is clearly not enough to separate crap from good code
14:16:26 <b_jonas> hi, people
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14:57:53 <b_jonas> Hey look, Scott Aaronson replied to a question with a Kipling quote included => https://www.quora.com/Whats-your-advice-to-someone-beginning-his-her-PhD-in-Theoretical-Computer-Science/answer/Scott-Aaronson
14:58:02 <b_jonas> `? if
15:00:00 <oerjan> i'm only halfway (? the list seems to keep growing) through those answers.
15:00:22 <oerjan> or wait
15:00:35 <oerjan> that may have been the one i actually skipped most of.
15:01:08 <b_jonas> oerjan: it's one of the first ones
15:01:17 <b_jonas> what's with hackego?
15:01:21 <b_jonas> he's left?
15:01:23 <b_jonas> strange
15:01:35 <b_jonas> I think `? if isn't the same verse, but still
15:01:43 <b_jonas> it's from the same poem
15:02:28 <oerjan> b_jonas: whoops
15:03:17 <oerjan> it was the last of Gregor's bots remaining. although maybe it'll rejoin, even if the others didn't.
15:05:13 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh, he runs bots on multiple hosts?
15:05:20 <b_jonas> at the same time that is
15:05:23 <b_jonas> I haven't done that yet
15:05:57 <b_jonas> I've relocated my bot to another host manually for months once when I knew the normal host wasn't available for a while, but I never tried to run them on multiple machines at once.
15:09:03 <oerjan> um i'm not talking about multiple copies of the same bot. except for glogbackup, which was supposed to only be here when glogbot isn't.
15:11:08 <b_jonas> although it would be hard to keep two copies of HackEgo in sync, because they store so much persistent mutable data
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15:12:45 <oerjan> and afaik Gregor never synced glogbot with glogbackup, even when it was working.
15:23:00 <izabera> https://github.com/davidlind/taas
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15:38:44 <oerjan> `botsnack
15:38:56 <HackEgo> ​>:-D
16:03:38 <b_jonas> `? if
16:03:59 <HackEgo> If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss:
16:04:33 <b_jonas> right, different verse of the same poem
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16:26:46 <\oren\> i want a port of allegro 4 to javascript
16:26:56 <oerjan> allegedly.
16:33:29 <b_jonas> \oren\: what's "allegro 4"?
16:33:35 <b_jonas> `? allegro
16:33:36 <b_jonas> `? allegro 4
16:33:44 <HackEgo> allegro? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:33:44 <HackEgo> allegro 4? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:33:53 <\oren\> a game library for C
16:33:57 <b_jonas> ah
16:34:07 <b_jonas> and why would you want a javascript port of that?
16:34:14 <b_jonas> also, hell\oren\
16:35:01 <\oren\> i have a much fadter computer now so i could make my old games into web games
16:35:31 <b_jonas> \oren\: but it's not your computer that matters for that, it's the computer of the people playing those games, right?
16:36:15 <\oren\> the computer i wrote them on was a ancient dell laptop from 2006
16:36:17 <b_jonas> and my computer for example isn't powerful enough. although I recently decided it's finally time to buy a new computer that's more powerful, that will still take some time because there's some more urgent stuff I have to do before.
16:37:27 <\oren\> so i think average pc today could do it in js
16:38:11 <b_jonas> is it unrealistically expensive if I want the desktop computer with a motherboard that can be expanded to up to 32 gibibytes of RAM, even if I only want to buy 8 gibibytes of RAM for it now?
16:38:38 <b_jonas> that's a rhetorical question, there's not much need to answer, I'll find out the answer when I look at specific motherboard models
16:38:46 <b_jonas> and I have more criteria I want from it
16:39:19 <b_jonas> I know it will cost a ton, and I have other things I want to spend money on, but still, it will be worth
16:39:38 <b_jonas> I want all the shiny modern hardware stuff
16:39:42 <b_jonas> ok, not all
16:39:44 <b_jonas> but much of it
16:40:15 <\oren\> i bought a thinkpad
16:41:19 <\oren\> but i have built desktops in the past
16:41:53 <b_jonas> I also want to buy a compact camera, which sounds like it's cheaper, but actually much of the hardware of a desktop computer lasts for very long, and I can expand it by replacing only some parts (additional RAM, storage, etc) later, the costs are really the same order of magnitude.
16:43:16 <b_jonas> The camera won't sit in a room, so its hardware (especially the lens mechanics) is amortized quickly.
16:44:11 <b_jonas> I bought a surge protector yesterday
16:47:42 <fizzie> I'd buy something that I could stick at least 32 gigs in eventually.
16:47:52 <fizzie> I'd buy 16 in it to start with, even.
16:48:00 <fizzie> (This workstation's got 64.)
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17:19:46 <Taneb> https://vimeo.com/93042377
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18:14:50 <shachaf> `olist 1037
18:14:51 <HackEgo> olist 1037: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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20:21:03 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sgeo> Like annoying to use records
20:21:11 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought someone had Solved The Records Problem
20:22:47 <b_jonas> thx
20:24:02 <shachaf> b_jonas did, with the grandmophone
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20:51:33 <zzo38> Now I wrote a display program for use with what my new computer design says so far, that can imitate a PC text screen without the cursor (but does implement blinking text). You can look in order to see example of its working.
20:51:47 <zzo38> I also wrote about audio working now
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21:18:29 <zzo38> Compared with Amiga, my system cannot execute instructions on the video processor during rendering (so writes to video registers can occur only between scanlines or during vblank), although I have a more complex instruction set (with sixteen instructions instead of three), although the instruction set is fully orthogonal (there are two address mode bits, two condition bits, and four instruction kind bits)
21:21:25 <zzo38> Raster bars (horizontal and vertical) effects can still be implemented though.
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21:38:09 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monadic_predicate_calculus
21:38:11 <shachaf> v. misleading tdnh
21:39:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: is this that older low-level computer design of yours that has the strange complicated collection of addressing modes and treats the instruction pointer a general register?
21:39:54 <int-e> Monadic first order logic is fun.
21:39:57 <zzo38> No it is a different one, and I haven't written about the CPU instrucion set
21:39:58 <b_jonas> by complicated collection of addressing modes, I mean an instruction can have two or three arguments, each of which has a variable addressing mode with a variable number of extra bytes to encode the instruction
21:40:08 <b_jonas> making it hard to decode instructions
21:40:20 <b_jonas> zzo38: ok
21:40:33 <b_jonas> and that one, I thin ,had more than 16 "instructions"
21:40:52 <zzo38> The one I mean is this one: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/new.computer it isn't that complicated to decode instructions. I have written about the video processor and audio and operating system.
21:41:05 <zzo38> Note that the video processor's instruction set is not the same as the main processor's instruction set
21:42:09 <zzo38> Do you like this so far?
21:43:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, while we're at designs for instruction sets, just out of curiosity, have you ever looked at John Savard's designs at eg. http://www.quadibloc.com/arch/perint.htm or http://www.quadibloc.com/prog/lg00.htm ?
21:44:25 <zzo38> I will look now
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21:57:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: this thing you describe and call a “video processor” sounds like a auxiliary general cpu to me, which runs synchronized with the RAM acess, and that's why it runs only during hsync and vsync time. It doesn't seem like specifically a *video* processor. It doesn't have parallelism or much video-specific things.
21:57:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: also, the sentence “Video registers are read-only.” is probably a typo
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22:02:35 <zzo38> Yes; it should be write-only. I fixed it now
22:04:03 <zzo38> It is meant for programming the video registers and can execute instructions or read during rendering, what the instructions programmed it to do.
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22:22:46 <zzo38> Do you have other comments about this?
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22:39:41 <shachaf> If you have a Turing machine where the symbol on the tape is erased whenever you move left, is that equivalent to a push-down automaton?
22:40:34 <zzo38> It look it will be like the stack if you do that?
22:41:02 <int-e> do you erase the symbol you're going to or the symbol you're coming from...
22:41:44 <int-e> but assuming the lattter it should directly translate to a PDA.
22:43:08 <shachaf> The latter.
22:43:27 <int-e> oh. did you intend to put input on the tape?
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22:43:59 <shachaf> Oh, I guess a PDA usually has a separate input tape.
22:47:09 <int-e> you get something quite odd when the input and the stack share a tape... because you can compare the stack size to the current input position. so recognizing { a^nb^nc^n | n in N } seems possible.
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23:18:42 <fizzie> Amazon, you're a liar.
23:18:58 <oerjan> shocking
23:19:01 <fizzie> They said they'll dispatch something on the 17th, but it's still "preparing to dispatch".
23:19:13 <shachaf> Did they say the 17th of which month?
23:19:22 <fizzie> I think they did.
23:19:29 <oerjan> year?
23:19:41 <fizzie> That they don't say.
23:19:48 <oerjan> see, there you go.
23:19:55 <fizzie> They do say "Expected by 22 May", but that also lacks the year.
23:35:32 <int-e> time zone?
23:38:02 <int-e> Or perhaps they're just still using the Julian calendar.
23:38:18 <b_jonas> it could be UTC-39999:00:00 timezone
23:39:13 <b_jonas> I still think we could make an authentic old-timey or medieval or “eighties” or “19th century” etc theme park just by declaring it's in some time zone with a large negative offset
23:40:26 <zzo38> O, that's how you do it?
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23:41:48 <int-e> (The Julian calendar is 13 days behind the Gregorian now... no change since the October revolution)
23:48:03 <pikhq> b_jonas: I don't think a UTC-P30Y time zone is all that reasonable or authentic.
23:50:41 <oerjan> int-e: it won't change until 2100.
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23:57:50 <zzo38> Do you like the PC text imitation display program I wrote, and can you find any mistakes in it?
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