00:01:03 fancy 00:01:44 you mean like tcsh, which can process labels and gotos in an interactive command-line between commands? 00:17:29 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:18:50 so I have a moderately cheating 12 byte hello world in bash. 00:21:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:22:25 int-e: ? 00:24:10 int-e: weren't we talking about perl? 00:24:23 I mean, for golfing, the language matters a lot 00:24:35 oerjan: '23:53:45 which reminds me, there are a ton of languages, like Perl and Ruby, where people have done hello worlds in anagol with not enough alphanums for them to contain the actual hello world string' 00:24:54 wob_jonas: bash is in the same category. 00:26:21 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:26:46 sorry, I mean, yes, 12 bytes in golf is impressive 00:27:00 I'm still reading a camera manual 00:27:19 (they call it manual, but a large part of it is about crazy automatic modes that I'll probably never use) 00:28:21 BLC8 has no less than 16 12-byte hello world programs:) 00:28:47 tromp: does it have a hello world shorter than 12 bytes? 00:28:57 no 00:29:22 but you can think of it as a 11.5 byte program rounded up 00:30:10 it uses a half-byte cat program 00:31:06 I'm curious about the half-byte cat 00:31:37 see http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html 00:31:42 prooftechnique: brute force it if you want to know what it is 00:31:49 there aren't that many half-byte programs 00:32:00 yes, I know there's a halting problem and all, but still 00:32:34 Oh, that's cute 00:33:33 That's a cute cat 00:37:52 here kitty kitty 00:38:08 @messages-lead 00:38:08 oerjan said 1h 10m 50s ago: Formaldehydra is the best way to preserve it. <-- -----### 00:38:15 quintopia: netcraft confirms it hth 00:38:52 But now I don't know whether that @tell came before or after oerjan logread the discussion. 00:39:08 *MWAHAHAHA* 00:39:12 `? formaldehydra 00:39:19 formaldehydra? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:39:57 shachaf: ok disclosure: i had seen it since i search for my nick first. 00:40:10 i hadn't thoroughly read it, though. 00:43:22 shachaf: nice job. nailed it. high five. 00:44:51 -!- miketo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:47:38 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:47:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:55:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:11:05 In any case this seems to be a file system exploration exercise to a very large extent. For example, this is a hello world shell script on anagol: ruby ../oldlocal/test.rb 01:13:56 (which can be shortened to ruby ../o*/*b and a few other versions, which is quite competetive) 01:17:10 tromp: you miscount the characters, I think. "Hello, world" is 12 bytes... and still missing the exclamation mark. 01:27:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:29:37 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:30:10 [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48998&oldid=48994 * Darkrifts * (+361) /* File I/O */ 01:35:24 [wiki] [[FOS-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=48999&oldid=48996 * Darkrifts * (+665) /* Documentation */ 01:38:30 [wiki] [[FOSCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49001&oldid=48998 * Darkrifts * (+106) /* Documentation */ 01:41:53 tromp: https://tromp.github.io/img/construct.9x19.gif what's this 01:44:37 it seems weird to click the picture of an illegal position to get to your page for the number of legal positions 01:49:22 Just downloaded the Kindle PC program 01:49:42 The font size that I'm comfortable with on windowed mode is too small for me in fullscreen mode :( 01:55:05 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:04 [wiki] [[FOS-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49002&oldid=48999 * Darkrifts * (+14) /* Documentation */ 01:56:20 [wiki] [[FOS-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49003&oldid=49002 * Darkrifts * (+0) /* Documentation */ 02:08:00 -!- boily has joined. 02:09:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:10:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:11:49 boʰily 02:14:28 -!- iaglium has joined. 02:15:27 `relcome iaglium 02:15:52 iaglium: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:16:10 heǁǁørjan! 02:27:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:51 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:34:04 That sounds suspiciously Welsh 02:34:30 [wiki] [[FOS-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49004&oldid=49003 * Darkrifts * (+44) /* Unexpected behavior */ 02:35:22 prhellooftechelloniquello! 02:42:21 I don't understand Rare Candy in the TCG, isn't that how normal evolution works? 02:43:02 `` cd wisdom; ls *porth* 02:43:07 porthello 02:43:14 Oh, it skips the stage 1? 02:43:20 `? porthello 02:43:24 Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner. 02:47:21 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:48:20 `? fternooner 02:48:23 fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 02:51:23 <\oren\> why are the quotes weird for danish and Norwegian, but Swedish has normal quotes? 02:52:08 ... 02:52:30 <\oren\> Wait.. why does the sweidsh one start with a ” and not a “? 02:52:43 he\\oren\. those are the standard quotation marks according to their respective languages hth 02:52:58 * oerjan swats \oren\ for cultural bias -----### 02:53:17 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:54:21 <\oren\> Really, swedish mandates both starting and ending with a ”? 02:55:01 the hydra's rightmost dire group is now down to two segments. 02:55:14 *two dire 02:55:32 as opposed to the six earlier today. 02:55:56 what is this hydra y'all are speaking of? 02:56:05 http://www.madore.org/~david/math/hydra.xhtml 02:56:17 \oren\: that's the way it is. or at least the wikipédia way. hth. 03:03:08 <\oren\> boily: I looked it up. Apparently hungarian quoting starts like a german and ends like a swede 03:03:34 quotations are weird. 03:03:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUPERCALIFAHDAMMITIFORGOTTHERESTOCIOUS CHICKEN). 03:04:22 <\oren\> I prefer to have separate beginning and ending quotes 03:04:41 `wisdom supercali 03:04:50 supercalifragilisticexponential growth//Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust. 03:12:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:16:24 oerjan: does it leave it in cantor's dust? twh 03:18:15 quite possibly. 03:25:47 useful resources for unicode http://www.macchiato.com/ 03:27:13 useful information for delicious espresso 03:27:39 ... 03:28:26 i hit the wrong button and the hydra is gone. 03:28:33 iei! 03:28:34 ...it was inevitable. 03:28:45 <\oren\> expresso is best enjoyed with foamed milk 03:28:46 swut u get 03:29:16 next time run it at full cps (chops per second) 03:30:11 <\oren\> actually, foamed milk is really good even by itslf 03:36:24 i have no interest in that. 03:37:17 <\oren\> oerjan: you don't like milk? 03:37:49 that was to quintopia hth 03:38:14 also my stomach doesn't cope with hot milk. 03:38:47 oerjan: what do you have interest in? have you now lost all interest in hydrae 03:38:52 bah let's try some manual strategy. 03:39:09 here we have a depth 6 hydra... 03:50:17 [wiki] [[Apple3.14]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49006&oldid=48962 * Conor O'Brien * (+1) /* Implementation */ 03:53:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:57:05 [wiki] [[Bynary/implementation.js]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49007 * Conor O'Brien * (+3054) Created page with "An implementation of [[Bynary]] written in node js by [[User:Conor O'Brien]]. Make sure you `npm install readwrite` before running. == Implementation == const rw = require("..." 03:57:28 [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49008&oldid=48967 * Conor O'Brien * (+38) /* Languages I have implemented */ 03:57:41 [wiki] [[Bynary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49009&oldid=36112 * Conor O'Brien * (+136) 03:59:19 [wiki] [[Bynary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49010&oldid=49009 * Conor O'Brien * (-2) /* Implementation */ 04:13:55 enough of that. now reddit -> 04:23:16 [wiki] [[FOS-X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49011&oldid=49004 * Darkrifts * (+0) /* Documentation */ 04:55:03 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:56:29 -!- miketo has joined. 04:56:55 -!- miketo has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 05:03:56 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if Hex TCG is any good 05:05:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:07:34 -!- augur has joined. 05:17:51 I just started listening to a video (https://youtu.be/LMMSEZk7Eqo, if you're curious) 05:18:06 And I noticed something I feel I should have picked up on years ago 05:18:26 The way the audio is set up for my headphones makes it sound like the music is coming from /inside/ my head 05:18:32 What is that music 05:21:32 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49012&oldid=48990 * Darkrifts * (+190) /* Implementations */ 05:31:19 ...why is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_August_2016 a thing? 05:45:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:45:54 How to convert a grammar to optimized so that the right side can have only up to one terminal and only at the beginning, and that if it contains actions then it contains nothing else? 05:51:43 "Look through your deck. Shuffle your deck afterward. 05:51:43 " 05:52:23 [wiki] [[Calcutape]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49013&oldid=47351 * Darkrifts * (+350) 05:52:43 I assume a good player should never have a need for that. And there goes hope that PTCGO has a UI that reminds you of your deck (do any card games have that?) 05:53:18 For Pokemon card, six cards are set aside at the beginning, so you might not know what cards remain until you can look. 05:53:44 Oh, good point 05:53:45 Shuffling your deck isn't useful in PTCGO? 06:01:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:06:34 Is that like Pokémon Go, but you catch cards instead of animated monsters? Seems like a niche market 06:08:14 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:21 -!- augur has joined. 06:09:56 -!- blozo has joined. 06:20:22 -!- blozo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:02:22 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:06:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:10:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:43:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:09:04 -!- augur has joined. 08:09:49 -!- Akaibu has joined. 08:33:51 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:01:15 The stuff to convert grammar I mentioned, I think the last part it is not difficult (I can think of it) but also I think it is wrong anyways so is irrelevant, other stuff I may be able to think of by myself anyways. But there are other problems anyways that I have not mentioned 09:02:22 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:08:07 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:09:32 This book might help too 09:31:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:31:31 An interesting thing about English (and indeed, most natural languages) is that it's beyond context sensitive 09:32:07 Because the way you talk necessarily changes based on the environment of the discussion- who you are, who you're talking to, and sometimes even the environment 09:32:16 An interesting example is the word "dad" 09:32:36 In most cases, you say "my dad" (or "my father") 09:32:45 "If a language is not regular, it requires a machine with at least Ω(log log n) space to recognize (where n is the input size).[22] In other words, DSPACE(o(log log n)) equals the class of regular languages." 09:33:02 int-e: Is that sort of comparison of Ω and o legitimate? 09:33:09 But when talking to a sibling, you're more likely to just say "dad" 09:33:20 And this also applies to your mother 09:33:34 But if you have two gay dads, then it changes 09:34:49 You can also have many English words that have many meanings, can be confusing and ambiguous, and many logic also isn't work with English speaking so well, so in addition to beyond context sensitive there is even more than that too. 09:34:51 (Now that I think about it, who do people with two fathers discuss their father? I assume they reference them by name, but then what about when trying to get the attention of one but not specifically the other? In a straight couple you'd just say "mom" or "dad", but if your parents are same-sex I guess you'd either have to use their names or create a separate system ("dad" and "dud" perhaps?)) 09:35:13 dad and papa 09:35:30 But you usually don't say "dad" when talking to a grandparent about your father 09:35:37 You say "my dad" 09:35:50 And it isn't linked to which side of the family they're on 09:36:40 But in an emotional-public context- for example, a sad Facebook post after the death of your father- you're likely to call them "Dad" instead of "my dad" 09:42:42 4320p: Soon to be a thing 09:43:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:49:11 at some point increasing the resolution will become less and less appealing 10:13:41 i found out that my long forgotten youtube chan is still there 10:14:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwynSN_DBSI full of wizard101 videos like this one 10:14:11 ah the memories :') 10:32:22 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:42:58 -!- centrinia has joined. 10:49:20 -!- gamemanj has joined. 10:53:19 -!- gamemanj has quit (Client Quit). 10:55:49 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:58:50 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:01:44 shachaf: well the two sets Ω(log log n) and o(log log n) are certainly disjoint and the latter contains the regular languages and the former all the rest. 11:02:16 -!- HackEgo has joined. 11:03:54 shachaf: of course it would be wrong to think that Ω(log log n) and o(log log n) are complements of each other. 11:04:44 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 11:06:42 wob_jonas: what's the cheapest way for perl to invoke an external program and print its output? 11:07:12 (I'm wondering whether the perl hello world entries are based on the same trick as the shell ones) 11:09:10 int-e: it depends. it can be exec"foo", or print`foo`, or say`foo`, or `foo 2>&1`, or just `foo` if it's printing to stderr, or just #!foo : if there's a shebang line but it doesn't mention perl, then I think perl will helpfully attempt to run the program in the shebang line 11:09:39 int-e: Do you mean DSPACE() in the first sentence? 11:09:41 int-e: I don't know which of these work in the case of anagolf 11:10:15 ah, the shebang it is. 11:10:18 int-e: you can also try to check existing revealed perl solutions on anagolf, or ask mtve who's sometimes in this channel 11:10:40 int-e: and I think I'm missing some others 11:10:47 hmm 11:11:01 thanks! 11:11:14 oh yes, there was the non-golf but VERY sneaky unshift"foo|";print<> 11:11:26 no wait, that's a syntax error 11:11:38 um, but anyway, get "foo|" onto @ARGV and then <> 11:11:44 there was some short sneaky way to do that 11:11:47 I don't recall what 11:11:55 so that leaves one puzzle... how on earth does (or did) the 11 character bash entry work. 11:12:00 probably not enough for this golf, but it features in obfu 11:12:07 let me check 11:12:19 int-e: could it be using a full path for an executable not in PATH ? 11:12:32 like, there may be a directory containing the interpreters for all languages or something? 11:13:26 02:11:05 In any case this seems to be a file system exploration exercise to a very large extent. For example, this is a hello world shell script on anagol: ruby ../oldlocal/test.rb 11:14:08 and in bash it uses wildcards like /*/*/*/h*+ or something which happens to expand to /usr/local/bin/hq9+ /something/irrelevant/containing/letterh 11:14:33 int-e: yes, anagol can be like that 11:14:48 you remember all the programs that depend on the pid or even the time you run them 11:14:56 anyway I think that's more than enough of a hint. 11:15:15 yeah I was looking for an angle to use the pid... didn't find any in this case. 11:15:32 sure, the pid won't help here 11:16:08 I was thinking along the lines of `find`[$$] 11:16:35 how old is anagolf? could there have been a program that worked only for one second at epoch time 1234567890 in 2009-02 ? 11:17:24 well, we have a stamp for the 11 byte bash entry: 2008/01/30 16:34:13 11:17:45 I see 11:18:07 and it's quite possible that it got broken later 11:18:57 02:13:56 (which can be shortened to ruby ../o*/*b and a few other versions, which is quite competetive) <-- once you do stuff like that it obviously becomes very fragile. 11:20:47 yeah 11:23:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:27:22 But I find it highly amusing that the anagol server has a hello world program right under our noses... okay... once you move aside a pile of newspapaer and some old food. 11:28:47 int-e: that's normal. what computer doesn't have a hello-world program? are you thinking of non-unix systems which have no useful command-line utilities installed, so you can't even grep in a file or add two numbers without installing something? 11:30:01 wob_jonas: I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised by how many GNU core utils do *not* implement any Hello, world! easter egg. 11:31:04 we should get a command-line hello world and a libc hello world, both such that they can print all the variations in case and punctuation, in the next revision of POSIX 11:34:09 Does busybox have a hello world command in it yet? 11:47:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:52:42 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 11:53:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:55:42 `hello 11:56:07 Hello 11:56:53 `hello does this take any arguments? 11:56:59 Hello 11:57:12 `hello world 11:57:13 Hello 11:57:23 `hello -w 11:57:25 Hello 11:57:32 `file bin/hello 11:57:38 bin/hello: ASCII text 11:57:44 `cat bin/hello 11:57:45 echo Hello 11:57:51 `rm bin/hello 11:58:00 No output. 11:58:12 hey, don't delete it! we need a hello world executable conveniently accessible 11:58:54 well it should do more than just that, I think 11:59:04 yeah 11:59:09 should I create a saner one? 12:03:24 well, sanity is overrated. it should be mildly interesting in my view... do something with an argument, perhaps be a bit random... 12:04:04 `` shuf -1 quotes 12:04:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:04:11 shuf: invalid option -- '1' \ Try `shuf --help' for more information. 12:04:45 `` shuf -n 1 quotes 12:04:45 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"h",pack"h",$ARGV[0]",($c&4?"w":"W"),"orld",($c&8?"."),"\n";' &&chmod -c a+x $e 12:04:59 mode of `bin/hello' changed from 0644 (rw-r--r--) to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x) 12:05:01 Reality isn't a part of physics 12:05:01 `hello 12:05:05 String found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "]",($c&4?"" \ (Missing operator before ",($c&4?"?) \ String found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "w":"" \ Bareword found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "":"W" \ (Missing operator before W?) \ String found where operator 12:05:16 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"h",pack"h",$ARGV[0]",($c&4?"w":"W"),"orld",($c&8?".":""),"\n";' &&chmod -c a+x $e 12:05:17 booo 12:05:20 No output. 12:05:22 `hello 12:05:26 String found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "]",($c&4?"" \ (Missing operator before ",($c&4?"?) \ String found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "w":"" \ Bareword found where operator expected at /hackenv/bin/hello line 2, near "":"W" \ (Missing operator before W?) \ String found where operator 12:05:31 booo x2 12:06:45 `ls tmp 12:06:47 args \ fruit \ sh \ spline \ spout \ tempcmd \ testcmd \ tmp_jonas 12:06:50 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"h",pack"h",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&8?".":""),"\n";' 12:06:54 No output. 12:06:57 `hello 12:07:01 hello, world 12:07:05 `hello 2 12:07:07 hello world 12:07:08 `hello 1 12:07:09 Hello, world 12:07:10 `hello f 12:07:12 hello, world 12:07:16 `` exec >tmp/foo; echo 1; echo 3; echo 2 12:07:17 No output. 12:07:20 `hello F 12:07:21 `cat tmp/foo 12:07:23 hello, world 12:07:23 1 \ 3 \ 2 12:07:28 that's wrong 12:07:29 `hello 7 12:07:33 Hello World 12:07:36 `hello 9 12:07:40 Hello, world. 12:08:21 Hmm, no exclamation mark. 12:08:23 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"C",pack"h",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&8?".":""),"\n";' 12:08:27 No output. 12:08:32 `hello 9 12:08:34 Hello, world. 12:08:36 `hello f 12:08:38 Hello World. 12:08:39 `hello 12:08:41 hello, world 12:08:48 int-e: oh, we can add that as an option too 12:09:02 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:09:13 . o O ( and !!!1 ) 12:09:26 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"C",pack"h2",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\n");' 12:09:28 hopefully 12:09:32 No output. 12:09:33 `hello 12:09:34 hello, world 12:09:35 `hello f 12:09:36 Hello World. 12:09:38 `hello 10 12:09:41 Hello, world 12:09:42 `hello 01 12:09:45 hello, world! 12:09:49 there 12:10:05 any other options you want? 12:10:15 `hello world 12:10:17 hello, world 12:10:31 nah I just wanted the Hello, world! to be covered as well 12:10:44 `hello 81 12:10:46 hello, world! 12:10:50 `hello 41 12:10:52 hello, World! 12:10:56 `hello 11 12:10:58 Hello, world! 12:11:00 Which seems to be the most common one, really. At least that's the impression from inside my bubble. 12:11:11 I can't follow which one is the most common really 12:11:29 also, maybe this should be changed so you only need one character for an argument, rather than two 12:11:39 there's still only 48 outputs so it would be possible 12:13:40 -!- atrapado has joined. 12:14:47 `cat `.' 12:14:48 cat: `.': No such file or directory 12:18:25 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\n");' 12:18:29 No output. 12:18:30 `hello 12:18:32 hello, world 12:18:33 `hello A 12:18:34 Hello, world 12:18:35 `hello B 12:18:36 hello world 12:18:37 `hello D 12:18:39 hello, World 12:18:42 `hello H 12:18:42 hello, world. 12:18:48 `hello P 12:18:49 hello, world! 12:18:55 `hello ` 12:18:56 hello, world 12:19:08 `hello a 12:19:08 Hello, world 12:19:18 `hello p 12:19:19 hello, world! 12:19:23 `hello q 12:19:24 Hello, world! 12:19:27 that's better 12:21:48 ``` e=bin/hello;>$e echo $'#!/usr/bin/perl\n''$c=unpack"C",$ARGV[0];print+($c&1?"H":"h"),"ello",($c&2?"":","),($c&4?" W":" w"),"orld",($c&16?$c&8?",":"!":$c&8?".":""),($c&32?"":"\n");' 12:21:51 No output. 12:21:52 `hello 12:21:53 hello, world 12:21:54 `hello ! 12:21:55 Hello, world 12:21:56 `hello b 12:21:57 hello world 12:22:04 `hello h 12:22:05 hello, world. 12:22:07 `hello i 12:22:09 Hello, world. 12:22:10 `hello q 12:22:11 Hello, world! 12:22:15 `hello y 12:22:16 Hello, world, 12:22:31 `hello [ 12:22:32 Hello world, 12:22:39 `hello z 12:22:40 hello world, 12:22:50 upper vs lower case tells whether it outputs a newline 12:22:52 `hello 12:22:53 hello, world 12:24:20 `` time seq 1000000 > /dev/null; time seq 1 2 1000000 > /dev/null 12:24:24 real: 0m2.102s, user: 0m2.440s, sys: 0m0.000s \ real: 0m0.495s, user: 0m0.480s, sys: 0m0.000s 12:24:32 wat 12:24:40 `` time seq 1000000 > /dev/null; time seq 1 2 1000000 > /dev/null 12:24:43 real: 0m0.993s, user: 0m2.240s, sys: 0m0.000s \ real: 0m0.469s, user: 0m0.460s, sys: 0m0.000s 12:24:56 ok it makes no sense to time stuff on hackego 12:25:42 izabera: it usually makes no sense to time stuff anywhere. you usually get times for something other than what you wanted to measure. 12:26:11 it's usually not nearly as skewed 12:26:34 sure, but HackEgo sometimes responds like a minute after your query, so what do you expect? 12:29:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:43:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:50:44 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:57:26 the awkward moment when github says i have 0.2% c++ in my code and it's all c 12:57:47 impure 12:58:04 it's pure c 12:58:14 you are using impure C with C++'s convention, so you are bad 12:58:18 (probably) 12:58:24 what conventions? D: 12:58:59 * izabera checks if there's any new or delete in the code... nope 13:01:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:33:06 `learn anagol is Anarchy Golf, code golf server at http://golf.shinh.org/ 13:33:12 Learned 'anagol': anagol is Anarchy Golf, code golf server at http://golf.shinh.org/ 13:44:08 -!- Zekka has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:54:51 -!- boily has joined. 14:02:27 * boily fills his watering can then hydrates int-e 14:05:29 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:10:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:13:42 I JUST INVENTED THE BEST THING EVER 14:13:46 #define case break; case 14:14:21 izabera: people do that, but give the macro a saner name 14:14:26 nooo 14:29:59 also, if you do that, you'll be screwed at the default 14:30:32 i usually put it first 14:30:37 you're weird 14:30:44 ok 14:31:18 besides, nothing's stopping you from #define default break; default 14:33:09 well, technically you can't define either, because the standard doesn't permit you to define keywords, and obviously that's for a good reason, it could break library macros and stuff, but oh who cares 14:33:28 also, #define default break; default is worse because then you can no longer declare defaulted member functions 14:33:36 You're allowed to if you don't use the stdlib at all, iirc 14:33:44 if this is C++ though 14:33:51 who needs stdlib anyway 14:33:55 alercah: I don't think you're allowed even then 14:33:56 just used checked switch 14:33:59 the standard just forbids it 14:34:09 nah, just use if-goto 14:34:21 nobody needs switch or while 14:34:39 oh, you're right 14:34:46 if, for, and goto are the only flow controls real men use 14:34:53 you can't #define library names if you use the stdlib, but you can if you don't 14:35:10 wob_jonas: who uses for? 14:35:15 wob_jonas: no need for for with if+goto 14:36:01 alercah: me. for(;foo;) isn't actually longer than while(foo), so why bother learning two different loop control constructs when one is better than the other in all respects 14:36:47 wob_jonas: why use loops? 14:37:03 if you're encouraging shitty control flow 14:37:06 plus, if you only use if, for, goto then you can read the code even without knowing English, because you can recognize the different syntaxes without having to remember what the English keywords are 14:37:08 just use if + goto 14:37:08 alercah: he's still a padawan 14:37:19 and hell, drop if 14:37:25 just use GCC's computed labels extension 14:37:26 alercah: for(;;) is usually shorter than if-goto 14:37:47 yeah... and computed comefrom 14:37:56 GCC doesn't have computed comefrom 14:38:05 yeah, it's stupid 14:38:07 we need those in C 14:38:08 wob_jonas: wait, is the objective to use shitty control flow or to golf 14:38:20 it's not shitty control flow 14:38:32 anything with if-goto is 14:38:32 it's to not make the language more complicated for no reason 14:38:51 do you, like, use unless in perl? I don't, because if(! is just easier to remember 14:39:07 I submit that your argument is inconsistent 14:39:15 if switch is complicated "for no reason", so are loops 14:39:19 wob_jonas: I've used unless. 14:39:28 even when you need a parenthesis, if(!(foo bar)) is shorter than unless(foo bar) 14:39:34 * int-e isn't much of a perl hacker though 14:40:02 int-e: yes, me too, in those very old codes I have that I'm ashamed to read now. the worst part is where they don't put a space before equals signs for assignment. 14:40:10 "unless" gives some insight into the programmer's intent. 14:40:21 I also like unless-else 14:40:24 potentially, at least. 14:40:36 because writing if (!...) { } else { } always feels weird 14:40:47 that reminds me to S-Lang, which uses the strange syntax !if instead of unless 14:40:51 err.. not always 14:40:52 wob_jonas: note, I'd only use the statement form, foo unless bar; 14:40:57 but sometimes is less intuitive 14:41:02 foo unless bar is very useful 14:41:07 ok 14:43:55 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:49:07 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:51:46 <\oren\> #define brase break; case 14:52:16 <\oren\> #define ul(x) if(!(x)) 14:52:34 <\oren\> #define ut(x) while(!(x)) 14:52:41 <\oren\> #define wh while 14:53:07 <\oren\> #define ei else if 14:54:59 <\oren\> #define sut struct 14:55:15 <\oren\> #define cz const 14:55:54 \oren\: or just see the one and two letter macros in the source code of K 14:55:55 no 14:55:58 the source code of J 14:56:00 mistype 14:56:16 I think it has a #define I long or something liek that 14:56:37