00:18:05 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Remember kids: Chicken may seem fun, but remember to be safe <-- . o O ( UNSAFECOERCED CHICKEN )

00:28:13 <oerjan> (exercise: how many ways can you permute evil, universe, mirror and twin there and still make sense)

00:40:17 <boily_> maudit routeur de mes deux m'a te ******* aux vidanges tu vas voir ça sera pas long!

00:46:15 <boily> there's the French «crisser» (“to screech”, “to squeal”), and Québécois «crisser» (“to do something with violence or suddenly”).

01:05:37 <lambdabot> KATL 262352Z 20009KT 10SM FEW075 FEW250 33/17 A3000 RMK AO2 SLP147 CB DSNT S & SW T03330172 10356 20333 55002

01:34:32 <\oren\> Apparently if no party gets a majority, then the House of Rep.s will pick the president, and the Senate will pick the vice president. that could be fun!

01:37:57 <\oren\> My battery wasn't charging for some reason, so I bought a new laptop charger with more watts

01:52:51 <HackEgo> Zekka: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)

02:43:45 <tswett> It is not the case that a human can run arbitrarily fast without getting into space.

02:47:01 <tswett> As an example, I cannot run at 120 miles per hour (200 kilometers per hour) without getting into space.

02:55:56 <myname> i am wondering wether the sentence is corrext under the assumption that people cannot do arbitrary small turns

02:56:34 <myname> i.e. for every speed you are running, there should be a smallest possible circle you can run in

02:58:21 <\oren\> well at some speed, the ground falls away from your feet and you can't accelerate yourself

04:56:35 <\oren\> Yay, I finally have a laptop charger that can charge while the sytem is powered up!

05:00:59 <\oren\> oerjan: yeah but the obvious question is why did this laptop come with a 65 watt charger when that's inadequate to both charge the battery and run the system at full power

05:01:49 <\oren\> do they expect people to shut off their laptops to charge them? does anyone do that?

05:03:52 <oerjan> i suspect when you bought it, you forgot to check the box where it said to charge extra hth

07:50:39 <pikhq> izabera: More useful thing: let poll and/or select actually tell if a read request will block or not on a file.

12:34:46 <HackEgo> Now I Know My ABC's \ 1UU \ Enchantment \ At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control permanents with names that include all twenty-six letters of the English alphabet, you win the game. \ UNH-R

12:36:49 <b_jonas> myname: un-cards are almost all the cards from the Unglued and Unhinged M:tG sets, two sets for sort-of self-parody that do things M:tG can't normally do. The cards have a silver outer border, and they're not legal for any sort of serious game or tournaments.

12:37:27 <HackEgo> Vanquish the Foul \ 5W \ Sorcery \ Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater. Scry 1. (Look at the top card of your library. You may put that card on the bottom of your library.) \ THS-U

12:38:36 <b_jonas> `fetch http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2016-07-23.zip share/mtg/AllSets-2016-04-08.zip

12:38:36 <HackEgo> http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2016-07-23.zip%20share/mtg/AllSets-2016-04-08.zip: \ 2016-07-27 11:38:33 ERROR 404: Not Found.

12:39:08 <HackEgo> 2016-07-27 11:39:01 URL:http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/oracle/All%20Sets-2016-07-23.zip [719795/719795] -> "All Sets-2016-07-23.zip" [1]

12:40:48 <int-e> boo, "Our Market Research Shows That Players Like Really Long Card Names So We Made this Card to Have the Absolute Longest Card Name Ever Elemental" contains only 21 distinct letter (missing fjqxz)

12:43:02 <HackEgo> Harmless Offering \ 2R \ Sorcery \ Target opponent gains control of target permanent you control. \ EMN-R

12:43:21 <HackEgo> Usage: jar {ctxui}[vfm0Me] [jar-file] [manifest-file] [entry-point] [-C dir] files ... \ Options: \ -c create new archive \ -t list table of contents for archive \ -x extract named (or all) files from archive \ -u update existing archive \ -v generate verbose output on standard output \ -f specify archive file name \

12:49:20 <HackEgo> Usage: tar [OPTION...] [FILE]... \ GNU `tar' saves many files together into a single tape or disk archive, and can \ restore individual files from the archive. \ \ Examples: \ tar -cf archive.tar foo bar # Create archive.tar from files foo and bar. \ tar -tvf archive.tar # List all files in archive.tar verbosely. \ tar -xf archive.t

12:49:25 <HackEgo> bzip2, a block-sorting file compressor. Version 1.0.6, 6-Sept-2010. \ \ usage: bzip2 [flags and input files in any order] \ \ -h --help print this message \ -d --decompress force decompression \ -z --compress force compression \ -k --keep keep (don't delete) input files \ -f --force overwr

12:49:28 <HackEgo> Usage: xz [OPTION]... [FILE]... \ Compress or decompress FILEs in the .xz format. \ \ -z, --compress force compression \ -d, --decompress force decompression \ -t, --test test compressed file integrity \ -l, --list list information about .xz files \ -k, --keep keep (don't delete) input files \ -f, --f

13:22:50 <b_jonas> in HackEgo, do we have a directory under the versioned file system that's also in the shared library path? I want to install a binary that uses a shared library. if there's such a directory, I'll install directly. otherwise, I'll create a shell script wrapper that sets LD_PRELOAD

13:25:27 <b_jonas> oh right, we can't have a user-writable directory in the GLOBAL shared library path, because that would require us writing the system /etc/ld.so.cache

13:33:21 <HackEgo> myname is not your name. You don't know what they are doing. Or you are doing. Or am I? He is Perl's evil twin brother.

13:40:08 <HackEgo> 2016-07-27 12:40:03 URL:http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/p7zip-16.02-linux-bin-only.tar.xz [1143816/1143816] -> "p7zip-16.02-linux-bin-only.tar.xz" [1]

13:40:15 <HackEgo> bin/ \ bin/7z \ bin/7za \ lib/ \ lib/p7zip-16.02/ \ lib/p7zip-16.02/7z \ lib/p7zip-16.02/7z.so

13:40:34 <HackEgo> bin/ \ bin/7z \ bin/7za \ lib/ \ lib/p7zip-16.02/ \ lib/p7zip-16.02/7z \ lib/p7zip-16.02/7z.so

13:42:32 <HackEgo> 52) <oklopol> if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has \ 173) <elliott> oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?

13:44:16 <HackEgo> /hackenv/lib/p7zip-16.02/7z: 1: /hackenv/lib/p7zip-16.02/7z: Syntax error: "(" unexpected

14:07:39 <b_jonas> that's why. it's an x86_32 executable, and we don't have x86_32 libraries, not even libc.so.6

14:08:01 <HackEgo> \ bin/7za: file format elf32-i386 \ architecture: i386, flags 0x00000112: \ EXEC_P, HAS_SYMS, D_PAGED \ start address 0x0804a8f0

17:38:27 <HackEgo> almightynsx1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)

19:29:39 <Elronnd> One might argue that the opposite of ass is philanthropist, but that completely ruins the joke

19:35:03 <\oren\> Trump openly called for the russians to hack hillary and release her private emails

19:45:51 <HackEgo> <oerjan> le/rn mad/This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate. \ <oerjan> rm wisdom/mad #this thing has been too damn true lately \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <oerjan> revert \ <FreeFull> run rm -rf wisdom \ <shachaf> revert 0 \ <shachaf> run rm -rf wisdom/* \ Initial impor

19:48:31 <int-e> He could've cited copyright reasons... except they expired, I think: '"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."'

19:49:49 <HackEgo> wisdom/hydrogen \ wisdom/holy water \ wisdom/welcome.eo \ wisdom/nobody \ wisdom/itidus21 \ wisdom/everyone \ wisdom/\oren\ \ wisdom/pizza \ wisdom/skeleton \ wisdom/sand \ wisdom/the u \ wisdom/madness \ wisdom/vampire \ wisdom/prography \ wisdom/madbr \ wisdom/mroman \ wisdom/alice \ wisdom/marriage \ wisdom/lmt \ wisdom/progres \ wisdom/@ \ wisd

19:50:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: skeleton: not found

19:50:07 <HackEgo> A skeleton is an unintelligent undead, similar to the zombie but harder to create, because it's lacking most of the body. The best skeletons are made by groups of people, so-called skeleton crews.

19:50:33 <HackEgo> Hydrogen is what stars are made of. There's a conjecture that at the immense pressures inside Jupiter or Saturn, hydrogen might form a superconducting liquid metal.

19:50:42 <HackEgo> wisdom/nobody \ wisdom/everyone \ wisdom/the u \ wisdom/alice \ wisdom/lmt \ wisdom/gamemanj

19:50:59 <HackEgo> 1/2:wisdom/nobody:Nobody killed the cyclops Polyphemos after he tried to eat a shipful of sailors, and this perceived injustice made Poseidon so mad he swore vengeance at him and the gods couldn't calm him down for ten years. \ wisdom/everyone:Everyone in here is mad. \ wisdom/the u:The U are a very mad people. \ wisdom/alice:Alice

19:51:12 <HackEgo> 2/2:doesn't want to go among mad people. \ wisdom/lmt:lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. \ wisdom/gamemanj:gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.

19:53:47 <HackEgo> <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ <mroman> learn Alice doesn\'t want to go among mad people.

20:01:26 <HackEgo> 1/1:wisdom/madness:madness lies thataway. \ wisdom/mroman:mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare.

20:03:12 <shachaf> Someone once gave me a puzzle: Find two periodic functions whose sum is the identity function.

20:09:39 <int-e> shachaf: is it okay to work in Z/6Z? (I guess you want R -> R, but you didn't specify that)

21:12:39 <int-e> shachaf: okay, you don't have to be overly creative for that problem (no transfinite induction required)

21:12:57 <\oren\> hmmm so you really need only find a single function g, and then prove that there exists an a, such that for all x, 0 = g(x) + a - g(x + a)

21:19:02 <\oren\> int-e: axiom of choice? hmmm well what if you turned the real numbers into a cartesian product

21:27:59 <\oren\> int-e: right so what we need is a basis where they're all primes or inverted primes or something

21:28:09 <int-e> I'm not ruling out that such a vector space construction works but... it has to be over some field, and if you want to obtain the usual addition in R as vector space addition, the field must have characteristic 0. Q is probably the natural choice in that case.

21:31:01 <\oren\> int-e: well I do, because we need to have the end result two functions that add together

21:37:12 <int-e> shachaf: okay, I can make that work but it seems to be an unecessary complication to me.

21:39:14 <\oren\> if we can, then all that remains is to prove that there exists some other number z, such that for all x, f_a(x) + z - f_a(x + z) = 0

21:43:13 <int-e> FreeFull: you can rest assured that they are not; their graphs are both dense in the real plane

21:48:07 <int-e> FreeFull: otherwise the sum of the two functions would be periodic (with the same period, and potentially shorter ones), and f(x) = x isn't periodic.

21:49:29 <int-e> FreeFull: in fact the two periods have to be incommensurable, as the Pythagoreans would say.

21:51:47 <FreeFull> You do need an infinite number of discontinuities, but does the function have to be discontinuous everywhere, or can you get away with some continuity?

21:52:20 <int-e> FreeFull: and the point of viewing R as a vector space, as far as I can see, is to make the two periods part of the basis of the vector space. So R as vector space over R doesn't help.

21:52:31 <wob_jonas> oh, a calculus question. let me look at the logs (though I probably can't solve it, I'm bad at calculus)

21:52:44 <int-e> FreeFull: no, continuity anywhere would contradict denseness of the graph in the plane ;)

21:53:41 <int-e> wob_jonas: finding two periodic function (R -> R) whose sum is the identity function

21:53:42 <FreeFull> Damn, it's actually really difficult to come up with functions that are continuous nowhere

21:55:31 <wob_jonas> let me think, I think there might be a construction using the well-ordering theorem

21:57:01 <int-e> wob_jonas: shachaf has a solution; I have one at http://sprunge.us/BWCV; \oren\ is stumbling around, I think; I don't know about FreeFull.

21:57:20 <wob_jonas> int-e: I want to think about it without reading a full solution for a little bit

21:57:53 <wob_jonas> int-e: sure, it might be the theorem that every vector space has a basis (was mentioned above)

21:58:01 <int-e> wob_jonas: sure, I'm just stating it's there and summarizing what's happing, since you didn't look at the logs.

21:58:46 <wob_jonas> by the way, do you know my other favourite maths question? not the Chameleon one, but the one that has a LOT of different ways to solve, which is why I like it

21:59:01 <\oren\> if you have such a basis A, then f_a(x)a where a is a member of the basis and f_a(x) is the coeficient of a in x, has period b where b is any other member of A, and x - f_a(x)a is periodic with period a

22:03:54 <wob_jonas> hmm, indeed maybe it would be worth to use a vector space basis (of the reals over rationals), which can help because we know it's countable

22:07:40 <wob_jonas> \oren\: ok, now I don't get what you're talking about. what coefficients of what?

22:09:39 <\oren\> these rational coeficients are used to add up rational multiples of the basis numbers, to create each number in R

22:15:37 <int-e> Oh the point for the polynomials of degree n is that p(<sum of n+1 terms>) splits into a sum of n+1 functions with only n arguments each.

22:16:16 <wob_jonas> I said some really stupid things about this math problem above, so ignore almost all of it please

22:21:31 <int-e> \oren\: uhm how do you define a sum of uncountably many terms? besides, the problem asked for a sum of only two periodic functions.

22:28:30 <int-e> (sorry, I got lost in the false attempt and irrelevant remarks... I missed the line where you wrote out x - f_a(x)*a, because I was too busy complaining about the word.)

22:28:54 <wob_jonas> I seriously think I should rather solve this problem with the well-ordering theorem than with vector space basis

22:29:54 <wob_jonas> alercha: prove that the identity function on the reals can be written as the sum of two periodic functions on the reals

22:30:24 <\oren\> yeah I would prefer a constructed solution as opposed to my hypothetic existence proof

22:31:07 <int-e> the followup problem (simplified version: write f(x) = x^2 as the sum of three periodic functions) will not work with the vector space approach, since that can only produce additive functions. (f(x+y) = f(x) + f(y))

22:31:55 <int-e> Well the axiom of choice very much seems necessary. (Though I have no proof of that.)

22:32:02 <wob_jonas> I mean, I understand if you want to factor the reals to equivalence classes of numbers whose difference is a sum of integer multiply of the two periods (let's call them 1 and sqrt(2) for simplicity)

22:32:14 <wob_jonas> but that doesn't need choice, I don't think I need a complete vector space basis

22:32:50 <wob_jonas> I do think the AC is necessary, but I'd not like to use it through a vector space basis, but through the well-ordering or something similar

22:51:24 <wob_jonas> Anyway, my favourite maths problem is at http://mathoverflow.net/a/90201/35417 :

22:51:54 <wob_jonas> There exists a set $ A $ that is everywhere dense on the square $ [0, 1]^2 $, but such that for any real number $ x $, the intersections $ A \cap (\{x\} \times [0, 1]) $ and $ A \cap ([0, 1] \times \{x\}) $ are both finite.

22:52:13 <wob_jonas> I love that problem because there are so many different approaches for it that lead to a proof.

23:00:19 <int-e> wob_jonas: how about the obvious bijection of rational numbers in [1,2) with powers of two as denominators to themselves: reverse the bits.

23:01:47 <int-e> (additional constraints: no choice; all the intersections should have size at most 1; high school level)

23:02:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that works. it's another version similar to the first solution I give in the node, where I define the set without powers of two

23:03:03 <wob_jonas> which means that normal mathematicians don't usually give that, they know too many advanced stuff for it

23:03:36 <int-e> Oh if I wanted a hammer I'd use transfinite induction on the cardinality of the continuum.

23:03:40 <wob_jonas> I list the solutions in 8 bullet points ordered from most elementary to least elementary prerequisites.

23:04:42 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, that's how the 6th solution works, it's a big hammer, at least for mathematicians like me who learned of set theory somewhat late

23:08:13 <int-e> That's too Borel. (I have not done much topology so I usually want circles with arbitary real diameter.)

23:09:06 <wob_jonas> int-e: I mean, you don't really need to know what a "topological base" is for this

23:09:42 <wob_jonas> you just need to know basic real calculus, that every disk contains a rational circle

23:11:08 <alercah> I like set-theoretic structures like topologies, sigma-algebras, and filters. They lead to very weird properties

23:11:26 <wob_jonas> yes, the last one was hard to understand, it took a LOT of time for my friends to convince me that it probably works

23:12:17 <wob_jonas> the problem there is that that set is easy to come up with, and easy to conjecture that it works, but we didn't find an easier proof to prove that it works

23:14:03 <int-e> I guess I'm not very good with measure theory, which you need to make the probabilistic argument rigorous.

23:14:54 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, so if you know a lot of set theory but not much of advanced calculus, then the set theory proofs seems more natural to you

23:15:49 <wob_jonas> because I remember I read the proof first in a book that uses elementary maths only

23:16:48 <wob_jonas> iirc even the version that every bounded closed set in R^n is compact has an elementary proof there

23:16:58 <alercah> The elementary proof is basically that, given an open cover, if you need infinitely many members to cover a closed & bounded set, you can assume it's an interval, then subdivide it to get a smaller set.

23:18:19 <int-e> wob_jonas: btw, the *construction* in the last proof makes perfect sense, but I would have a much more elementary approach to establishing density.

23:18:40 <alercah> eventually, the set gets small enough that it can be covered by a single member, which is the contradiction

23:19:49 <alercah> if you're trying to cover [a, b], let I_0 = (i_0, j_0) cover a, I_1 = (i_1, j_1) cover j_0, and so on

23:20:34 <alercah> if you don't cover the entire interval, let I_{\omega} = (i_{\omega}, j_{\omega}) cover sup_{\alpha < \omega} j_\alpha

23:21:12 <alercah> repeat this process transfinitely until it does cover the entire interval [a, b], which must happen because you have an open cover and there are more ordinals than intervals

23:23:54 <alercah> then for each limit ordinal \alpha you used, you can build a finite cover of [a, i_{\alpha}] by taking the previous limit ordinal's finite cover and adding successive intervals until you pass i_{\alpha}, which must happen after finitely many steps since the upper bounds converge to j_\alpha > i_\alpha

23:25:53 <alercah> if you visualize it, what you're basically doing is finding the ordinal-like strucure in the upper ends of the intervals, you might try a bunch and find that they convege, and then try more and find that they converge, and then try this infinitely many times and find that *those* upper bounds converge, etc.

23:26:18 <alercah> but you can always cover the limit point and cut off all but finitely many previous intervals

23:28:32 <alercah> (the argument I gave above doesn't, technically, work, because "previous limit ordinal" isn't well-defined. But it shows you the point of the argument.