00:01:15 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion <hppavilion> New rule: From now on, "Glottal stop" must be pronounced in a cockney accent ("Glo'al stop") <-- just as long as you do the equivalent with "uvular trill" and "alveolar trill" twh *MWAHAHAHA*
00:01:59 * oerjan in relevant news seems to have developed this weird jealousy of édith piaf.
00:03:08 <oerjan> also, i found a nice proof of the figure 8 thing, which may or may not be what everyone else knows but in any case seems to generalize like heck topologically.
00:04:45 <oerjan> first, pick a countable dense sequence x_n in the plane.
00:05:48 <oerjan> then, for each figure 8 in your set, and for each component it splits its complement into, pick an element in the sequence from that complement. (you can do this without choice.)
00:06:14 <oerjan> then, disjoint figure 8s cannot pick the same triple.
00:06:35 <oerjan> so you have an explicit bijection with a countable set QED
00:08:37 <oerjan> this generalizes like heck because the only thing you use (modulo _maybe_ some weak topological axiom) is (1) R^2 is connected and has a countable dense subset (2) figure 8s are closed connected sets whose complement has at least 3 connected components.
00:11:27 <HackEgo> 1091) <Koen_> nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means
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00:12:09 <boily> amhellørrrrrrrrrjanur.
00:12:50 <oerjan> do québécois often trill their rs
00:13:16 <oerjan> i understand the fricative is more common in the francophonie
00:14:16 <shachaf> there's nothing phonie about boily's french hth
00:14:44 * oerjan waits for the inevitable measurement
00:17:56 <boily> oerjan: depends on which région you come from. most don't hth
00:18:18 * boily *THWACKS* shachaf. 0.86 shachafs.
00:18:59 <HackEgo> fabric of reality//The fabric of reality is *not* plaid corduroy, no matter what evil tongues say.
00:19:11 <shachaf> `cwlprits fabric of reality
00:19:35 <HackEgo> wumpus//Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
00:19:40 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, you can't 6-wisdom it
00:19:46 <HackEgo> ridicule//A ridicule is a tiny particle composed of bad jokes.
00:19:46 <HackEgo> conspirabiology//conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages.
00:19:49 <HackEgo> structsubural type//Something Bike is into. Not to be confused with suburban destruction.
00:19:50 <HackEgo> hallucination//You are just imagining this wisdom entry.
00:20:17 <shachaf> I thought a ridicule was a kind of bag?
00:21:13 <boily> no, you're thinking of a baguette hth
00:21:46 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguette_(bag)
00:22:11 <shachaf> Clearly not a tanebvention.
00:22:29 <oerjan> shachaf: are you saying baguettes involve sex
00:22:30 <boily> I was simply badpunning there.
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00:22:40 <shachaf> oerjan: that's what wikipedia says hth
00:22:42 <boily> I didn't know there was such a thing...
00:23:07 * boily shouldn't pun. it may spawn tanebventions
00:23:33 <oerjan> what's wrong with spawning tanebventions, except that they're intrinsically incompatible with spawning
00:23:47 <boily> Taneb: Tanelle. do you spawn?
00:23:58 <shachaf> oerjan: Presumably Taneb has no problem with asexual reproduction.
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00:30:25 <oerjan> hm my generalization depends on a theorem that we used all the time in some of our articles, but which doesn't seem to be mentioned in wikipedia's Connected space article
00:31:24 <oerjan> (namely: the complement of a component of the complement of a connected set in a connected space is connected.)
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00:31:33 <oerjan> Alf Rustad, in this case.
00:32:44 <oerjan> or, to use a terminology you'll like, the co-components of a connected set are co-connected.
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00:34:17 <quintopia> oerjan: given how time and money went into shipping it, i agree
00:34:32 <quintopia> i guess i have to eat the 43 dollars
00:36:34 <shachaf> Is that 43 dollars or 43 CAD?
00:38:13 <oerjan> <int-e> I was checking for cwlpryts <-- i think someone might be insulting your naming schemes, shachaf
00:38:42 <oerjan> i also have a memory like a sieve.
00:38:54 <int-e> oerjan: it had nothing to do with shachaf directly. I just applied the tr command (in context) to "culprit".
00:39:29 <oerjan> int-e: did you see my figure 8 proof twh
00:39:48 <int-e> oerjan: no, I let it scroll away, since I wanted to think about the problem first.
00:40:00 <int-e> but right now I'm doing other things...
00:40:50 <oerjan> now i'm wondering if something similar can work for the T shapes - but the obvious thing doesn't.
00:42:38 <oerjan> a small modification, and it does.
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00:44:23 <oerjan> in fact, i think you need only a pair rather than a triple there.
00:45:59 <oerjan> quintopia: i've been thinking a bit about the problems wob_jonas (?) mentioned recently
00:46:31 <oerjan> wob_jonas: the figure 8 and T-shape ones.
00:47:01 <oerjan> my proof for the first can be adapted (and simplified) for the second, it seems.
00:47:17 <wob_jonas> oerjan: which T-shaped one? the easier one where you have the base of the T on a line and they're nicely vertical and horizontal, or the harder one where the tees can be anywhere and the two lines can be in any direction (as long as they're not parallel)?
00:47:17 <quintopia> oerjan: at one what timestamp were thet mentioned?
00:47:34 <wob_jonas> oerjan: I haven't solved the figure eight one yet, I'll have to think about that
00:47:42 <oerjan> quintopia: i've forgot.
00:48:04 <oerjan> wob_jonas: ah ok. don't read scrollback then >:)
00:48:29 <wob_jonas> quintopia: I think it was someone else who mentioned the figure eights first... let me look for a link
00:48:42 <shachaf> There's a link but it's in Hungarian.
00:48:53 <shachaf> The thing it links to, I mean. I think the Link itself is in English.
00:48:54 <oerjan> wob_jonas: although i'll have to check if my proof still works for the harder...
00:49:14 <wob_jonas> shachaf: that one doesn't tell anything about the figure eights. it's a proof about the tees
00:49:37 <wob_jonas> but the figure eight problem is posed in the logs
00:49:53 <oerjan> wob_jonas: i think quite possibly it does, in fact.
00:49:54 <wob_jonas> oerjan: iirc the easy version of the tee has a quite short simple solution
00:51:25 <oerjan> mine is also short enough...
00:51:26 <wob_jonas> quintopia: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.07.28 starting from /01:23:38/
00:52:32 <wob_jonas> oerjan: on the forum, the general tee version was given with thumbtacks in 3-space:
00:52:41 <wob_jonas> from the same log page, "01:55:05 <b_jonas> the harder problem was: how many pairwise non-overlapping nails can you fit in 3-space, where a nail is the union of a circular disk and a segment such that the endpoint of the segment is the center of the disk and the two aren't coplanar."
00:52:53 <wob_jonas> but I don't think it's much harder than the 2d version
00:53:14 <oerjan> oh wait no it doesn't, not directly.
00:55:48 <wob_jonas> oh right, I remember the easy and short solution for the easy version of the tees (mushrooms) now
00:56:09 <wob_jonas> should I tell it, or would that be too much of a spoiler?
00:56:20 <int-e> you could always paste it somewhere
00:56:32 <wob_jonas> how fluent are people here in rot13 or base64?
00:56:47 <wob_jonas> or do I have to, like, use a strong encryption?
00:57:16 <int-e> I wouldn't be surprised to find people fluent in rot13 here
00:57:31 <int-e> but base64 seems a bit of a stretch.
00:57:51 <wob_jonas> paste then, it's easier than a strong encryption
00:58:25 <boily> `le/rn hungarian/A gulyás, közeli rokonaival, a pörkölttel és a paprikással szinte az egyedüli parasztételek, amelyek a 19. században a polgári és a nemesi konyhában teljes mértékben létjogosultságot szereztek.
00:59:23 <zzo38> I think ROT13 is commonly used, but there are other ways such as to send a private message, or a UHS cipher
00:59:40 <wob_jonas> Problem: prove that you can't place more than a countable number of non-intersecting tee shapes (mushrooms) in the plane, such that a tee shape is the union of a vertical segment that goes upwards from the x axis and a horizontal segment whose midpoint is the top of the vertical segment.
00:59:53 <shachaf> zzo38: A private message doesn't work because people not included in the message might retroactively want to look at the solution in the logs.
01:00:13 <shachaf> zzo38: UHS cipher doesn't work because no one knows how it works except for you.
01:00:30 <boily> solution: use québécois.
01:01:20 <pikhq> ROT13 seems appropriate for spoilers in active conversation (rather than an actually secret message).
01:01:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Are you sure that it doesn't violate the Digital Millenium Copyright Act?
01:01:48 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, and it is what is commonly used and probably should be if you do not have a good reason to not to
01:02:13 <pikhq> For example: Fancr xvyyrq Qhzoyrqber.
01:03:09 <zzo38> shachaf: It probably doesn't matter; such information can be found in many place (including UHS2HTML.pl documentation, OpenUHS source code, etc) (although I figured it out by myself instead)
01:03:10 <wob_jonas> Solution (rot13): Sbe rnpu grr, gnxr gur cnve bs gur engvbany k pbbeqvangr bs n cbvag ba gur yrsg unys bs gur ubevmbagny frtzrag naq bar ba gur evtug unys. Gurfr cnvef pna'g zngpu sbe gjb qvssrerag aba-bireynccvat grrf, naq gurer ner bayl pbhagnoyr cbffvoyr barf.
01:04:34 <zzo38> It is easy to make ROT13 with a shell script of course.
01:05:10 <boily> shachaf: lbh fzbbpu cbbpurf?
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01:05:44 <shachaf> boily: of course not: https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/smooch-your-pooch-a-cute-childrens-book-with-unsafe-suggestions/
01:06:07 <wob_jonas> I guess if you learn to read rot13, that's just hurting yourself, just like if you learn to read the fucking numbers on the eye test table. Do you know how hard it is to fight the latter?
01:07:01 <oerjan> wob_jonas: hm ok, that's simpler than my solution, but similar.
01:07:22 <wob_jonas> I think I still only know the 42 and that it's made of the digits 12345679, but I had to actively try to forget it at examinations.
01:07:50 <shachaf> wob_jonas's T solution is almost identical to the 8 solution I know.
01:08:27 <wob_jonas> These days I'm measured by a different different eye test chart page, not the classical one, so now I have to fight not to remember that one.
01:09:52 <wob_jonas> Hopefully sooner or later they'll just use random-generated ones (at least for the letter/number recognition tests, not the other tests).
01:11:05 <wob_jonas> Electronic technology is always getting cheaper, so I think that time will come soon enough (like a couple of years).
01:11:34 <wob_jonas> Has anyone else here had this problme?
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01:12:19 <HackEgo> Zekka: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:13:00 <shachaf> wob_jonas: I've never memorized the letters on the eye exam thing.
01:13:41 <wob_jonas> shachaf: sure, that's the sensible outcome, but did you also feel that was a problem?
01:14:12 <shachaf> What, fighting to avoid memorizing them?
01:14:45 <wob_jonas> or feeling frustrated that they just use the same chart always
01:15:01 <wob_jonas> oh, and I think I know there's a 24 somewhere
01:15:01 <shachaf> I didn't know they use the same chart always.
01:15:14 <shachaf> There must be at least two charts.
01:15:19 <wob_jonas> and that one is more annoying, because the 42 doesn't actually matter, but the 24 is down where it does
01:15:30 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yes, there are at least three charts:
01:15:43 <shachaf> Or maybe everyone switches simultaneously.
01:15:48 <shachaf> When I was young the chart was in Hebrew. Now it's in English.
01:15:50 <wob_jonas> one with numbers, one with letters, one with E shapes rotated four ways,
01:16:47 <shachaf> Then maybe you're younger than I am, so you didn't take eye exams before the switch.
01:17:22 <wob_jonas> no, I just don't live in a country where people read hebrew
01:17:49 <shachaf> Well, I guess some people do.
01:18:22 <shachaf> But I'm told that, in Hungary, the game called "Animal, Vegetable, Mineral" in English is called "barkochba".
01:18:58 <wob_jonas> shachaf: yes, it's called that, but I think it's called "twenty questions" in English
01:19:29 <wob_jonas> or at least it's called something like "barkochba", I'm not sure that's the correct spelling
01:19:37 <shachaf> I'm going by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Questions
01:20:43 <shachaf> "mineral" seems awfully specific
01:22:09 <lambdabot> *** "mineral" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:22:09 <lambdabot> adj 1: relating to minerals; "mineral elements"; "mineral
01:22:09 <lambdabot> 2: composed of matter other than plant or animal; "the inorganic
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01:35:58 * oerjan gives shachaf a swat for that hebrew sketch -----###
01:36:26 <lambdabot> n 1: solid homogeneous inorganic substances occurring in nature
01:36:26 <lambdabot> having a definite chemical composition
01:36:36 <oerjan> huh it was still there
01:37:11 <oerjan> int-e: is @more distinguished by channel or something?
01:37:20 <lambdabot> *** "mineral" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:37:20 <lambdabot> adj 1: relating to minerals; "mineral elements"; "mineral
01:37:20 <lambdabot> 2: composed of matter other than plant or animal; "the inorganic
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01:37:31 <lambdabot> n 1: solid homogeneous inorganic substances occurring in nature
01:37:31 <lambdabot> having a definite chemical composition
01:37:47 <int-e> oerjan: I believe so.
01:37:55 <oerjan> it didn't accept @more in private
01:39:29 <oerjan> (just testing the reverse)
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01:48:52 <oerjan> <int-e> (and there's room for optimization... I could drop all the even numbers because a2 \/ b2 is easy to satisfy) <-- all the numbers not relatively prime to the distance, i think.
01:49:19 <oerjan> which would also solve your dodgy -a2 \/ -b2
01:50:27 * oerjan didn't program anything, but that's what he found out checking some cases by hand
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01:52:57 <oerjan> l and 1 are _so_ distinguishable in sprunge's font. not.
01:57:20 <shachaf> you totally had me going there until you said "not."
01:57:31 <shachaf> i was completely ready to believe that they were distinguishable
02:00:43 <boily> are there any downsides to repeatedly use a box of beasts?
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02:10:47 <int-e> oerjan: yes, all numbers relatively prime to the distance, but the distance was 16...
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02:12:06 <int-e> but the same argument means that -a2 \/ -b2 will not cause any trouble because whatever a prime factor of 2 in a can do can also be accomplished by a factor of 2 in b and vice versa.
02:12:22 <int-e> basically I tried to write as little code as possible.
02:14:57 <oerjan> int-e: right, although that's only because you ignore that in _reality_ a2 <=> b2.
02:15:34 <int-e> and I got away with it.
02:15:38 <oerjan> but i guess it does indeed no harm, for any prime.
02:17:47 <oerjan> did you find any prime distances yet?
02:19:34 <int-e> No, I have not continued the search.
02:20:05 * int-e is trying to do something with hint...
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02:20:30 <int-e> (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hint)
02:22:14 <oerjan> assuming it is the "don't need to check numbers not relatively prime" that makes even distances more common than odd ones, it makes sense that prime distances should be rarest.
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03:27:01 <int-e> oerjan: 15493 is the smallest prime that works
03:28:35 <int-e> now using minisat directly, and no divisibility checks; code: http://sprunge.us/EhKX?c++
03:33:09 <int-e> let's try to find out how many there are up to 100k. 18637 is another one.
03:36:16 <oerjan> seems rather random. probably there is no faster check than such a SAT solver.
03:41:59 <int-e> even if there is a faster check, it would probably be far more tedious to code.
03:43:11 <int-e> Especially in this case where one doesn't even need to do a Tseytin transformation to obtain a CNF.
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04:02:55 <int-e> 43613, 45179... also this is slowing down significantly now.
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04:25:11 <hppavilion> That is, if you learn a foreign language (to babel 3-5 level), then don't use it (or similar languages) for a while, can you pick it up normally?
04:25:50 <baordog> hppavilion: Depends on the person.
04:26:06 <baordog> My suggestion is to learn the language well enough to read it on an adult level.
04:26:13 <baordog> Many people who can "speak" a language can't read it at all.
04:26:24 <baordog> Couldn't read arbitrary books without a dictionary.
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09:04:45 <Jafet> oddly enough, adding divisibility tests does not seem to help in any way. maybe it's the variable ordering.
09:33:32 <hppavilion> The Official State Dance of Colorado is... the Square Dance
09:34:16 <oerjan> surely you mean rectangle
09:34:26 <izabera> it's funny because dance :D
09:34:34 * izabera is european and didn't get the joke
09:35:24 <oerjan> i'm also european, but i vaguely remembered it anyhow.
09:36:38 <oerjan> hm it's actually true.
09:36:43 <Sgeo> It's not my imagination that this is a good card, right? http://pkmncards.com/card/articuno-roaring-skies-ros-16/
09:37:22 <oerjan> but then, most us states have one, have that one.
09:37:43 <oerjan> stupid fingers ruining my scansion
09:38:18 <oerjan> Sgeo: cards are only imagination hth
09:45:50 <oerjan> wyoming doesn't seem to have a state dance.
09:46:54 <izabera> why do states even have an official dance?
09:47:18 <oerjan> "where're sources for this? i've searched a bit online and can't find any reason to believe that new york's official dance is the harlem shake."
09:47:40 <oerjan> izabera: they have official everything
09:48:03 <oerjan> i bet there are even state rocks -> now to check
09:49:50 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_minerals,_rocks,_stones_and_gemstones Q.E.D.
09:55:07 <Sgeo> oerjan, I'm attempting to interpret and explain profunctor optics, I think I'm being too abstract
09:55:35 * oerjan gently turns Sgeo toward shachaf
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10:49:13 <Sgeo> http://sgeo.tumblr.com/post/148191055665/profunctor-lenses-and-elixir
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10:57:53 <shachaf> you're not supposed to ask that hth
10:59:19 <Taneb> hppavilion, thee, I think
11:00:01 <shachaf> Taneb: i read on the internet that it tolls for me, though
11:01:43 <Sgeo> shachaf, am I at least somewhat accurate?
11:01:47 <Sgeo> Sorry if it's unreadable
11:02:26 <shachaf> It's unreadable in some philosophical sense in that I didn't read it.
11:03:51 <shachaf> I think the notation doesn't make sense.
11:04:43 <xfix> `len t͕͕̮̺̹̭̙͌ͮ̄e͈̼̥͕̱͎ͧ͊̓͡s̗͉͇͔̩̟͈̒̽̊̒tͮ̂ͤ͆͒̎̚͏͚͎̦̲͝
11:05:08 <Sgeo> shachaf, the = thing?
11:05:11 <HackEgo> 4 graphemes \ 48 codepoints \ 92 UTF-8 bytes
11:05:15 <shachaf> It doesn't make sense to say that I give you "Profunctor p => p a b" because that means that I give you something that requires you to satisfy the Profunctor p constraint.
11:05:39 <shachaf> It's like when people say things like "(exists a. Show a => a)".
11:06:02 <shachaf> Anyway overall it looks more or less correct? I don't know Elixir.
11:06:45 <xfix> myname: I guess it should say grapheme clusters.
11:07:04 <HackEgo> xfix: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
11:07:45 <shachaf> Are you some kind of fixed point?
11:08:35 <xfix> myname: In short, it's a count of user perceived characters.
11:09:03 <xfix> In this case, the string has lots of combining characters, but there are 4 user perceived characters.
11:09:04 <myname> i perceive more than 4ncharacters!
11:09:25 <shachaf> I perceive shachaf, Sgeo, xfix, myname.
11:09:30 <shachaf> HackEgo is not a character.
11:10:04 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 2 codepoints \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
11:10:19 <xfix> In this case, despite it being a simple g with two dots, it cannot be represented with a single codepoint.
11:10:31 <xfix> But at the same time, it's clear that it's a single character.
11:10:59 <shachaf> Taneb: single characters are my favorite
11:11:05 <shachaf> for my shipping wall and all
11:11:43 <xfix> Although, I guess the definition of that depends on a language.
11:12:10 <xfix> In most locales, this is 2 characters, but in Slovak it's 1,
11:14:12 <HackEgo> 2 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
11:14:21 <xfix> Oh, right, Perl version used by HackEgo is too old, and doesn't recognize emoji characters.
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11:37:35 <int-e> @tell oerjan after 7 hours of computation, this is the list of prime differences up to 100k: 15493, 18637, 43613, 45179, 61333, 67807, 68483, 80671, 87383.
11:39:15 <izabera> hey is this a common technique? https://arin.ga/k0UEqz/raw
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11:39:42 <izabera> all i've read on stackoverflow was about using a pipe with close on exec
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11:48:06 <Jafet> @oeis 15493, 18637, 43613, 45179, 61333, 67807, 68483, 80671, 87383
11:49:06 <Jafet> @oeis 16, 22, 34, 36, 46, 56, 64, 66
11:49:07 <lambdabot> Erdős-Woods numbers: the length of an interval of consecutive integers with ...
11:53:59 <Jafet> @google "Erdős-Woods prime"
11:55:54 <int-e> lambdabot: why don't you tell us the sequence number? *mumble*
12:07:26 <int-e> ... because the oeis package's simple interface doesn't: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/oeis-0.3.6/docs/src/Math-OEIS.html#lookupOEIS
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13:33:13 <int-e> also why don't cabal/hackage do incremental updates for the package database...
13:33:25 <int-e> 12 MB is not *that* small.
13:34:05 <wob_jonas> maybe it was implemented back when the package database was small, and then nobody updated it since. or maybe they didn't find an easy way to install rsync on windows.
13:48:06 <wob_jonas> agile programming => http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-07-30
13:50:55 <int-e> does it involve pole dancing?
13:51:27 <int-e> okay, close enough.
13:52:29 <int-e> today, Debian gave me: news for cheap
13:52:49 <int-e> (full message: Mailing root: apt-listchanges: news for cheap )
13:57:50 <int-e> it would help if their tar file (uncompressed) were append only but it isn't.
13:58:27 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, sorting by time could work too
13:59:34 <wob_jonas> although then you can't save space by deleting old packages from the databse
14:00:25 <int-e> well, hackage is not in the habit of deleting packages
14:00:59 <int-e> though nowadays it allows editing meta-information
14:01:13 <int-e> so it's not crystal clear anymore
14:02:12 <int-e> hah. http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/07/28/0806-the-divine-comedy-page-5/
14:02:39 <int-e> (finally! a funny Sandra and Woo strip!)
14:13:20 <int-e> related: http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2003-11-22
15:26:13 <HackEgo> Mario is a classic PSPACE-complete problem invented by Nintendo.
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19:53:28 <almightynsx> ok so i got a really difficult task on my hands
19:54:04 <almightynsx> i want to understand the deepest level of esotericism and magick/magic. how would i do that or who would i talk to?
19:57:40 <almightynsx> i want to understand occult magick mysticism and gnosis as a science. how could i make this possible
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20:05:56 <HackEgo> almightynsx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:06:13 <wob_jonas> oh come on, he deserved at least a rainbow one
20:08:17 <shachaf> The rainbow one is annoying when you're trying to communicate actual information.
20:08:30 <shachaf> In fact all the variations are annoying for that. Not helpful.
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20:28:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pung: not found
20:38:55 <almightynsx1> im looking for help. anyone have a few minutes?
20:43:43 <almightynsx1> im trying to find a quick route to learn as much about real magic/magick as possible. any ideas?
20:44:13 <wob_jonas> haven't you already asked that like an hour ago?
20:44:28 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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20:46:18 <myname> read thenstuff in the parantheses
20:48:00 <myname> touchscreen keyboards are hard
20:48:41 <orin> almightynsx1: try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:50:12 <myname> i am a bit afraid that people who are looking for that might be too stupid
20:50:13 <shachaf> Is magick different from magic?
20:50:53 <myname> don't ask questions you don't want to be answered
20:52:22 <Sgeo> There are too few words and too much reuse. So many places where people wander in looking for something related only in name
20:52:48 <Sgeo> /r/rust gets Rust game people, #go gets programmers, #nethack gets people who want to hack stuff
20:52:57 <Sgeo> And we get occultists
20:53:27 <Taneb> #cs-york gets canadians
20:53:30 <orin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9FImc2LOr8
20:53:39 <myname> oh, there is an actual go chnnel?
20:54:34 <orin> come on and slam and welcome to the jam
20:59:24 <shachaf> I asked the question because I did want it to be answered.
20:59:51 <Taneb> wob_jonas, survival first person shooter mmo, I think
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21:18:53 <gamemanj> shachaf: *shakes 8-ball* ask again
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22:21:46 <int-e> shachaf: do you wanna give feedback on https://github.com/int-e/haskell-src-exts-simple/blob/master/src/Language/Haskell/Exts/Simple/Syntax.hs ? :-P
22:22:52 <int-e> it's an annotation-free view on the haskell-src-exts AST
22:23:07 * int-e got carried away while updating the corresponding users in lambdabot.
22:26:34 <int-e> and I've reached the point where I have to decide whether I'll treat it as a fun experiment or actually polish and use it.
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22:31:16 <int-e> feel the power of the butterfly effect
22:31:35 <ais523> quintopia: not intentionally in a major way
22:32:38 <ais523> quintopia: well I'm mostly trying to find a job
22:34:10 <ais523> just one and I'm worried it'll fall through
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22:35:12 <ais523> shachaf: well my experience is in computer science research
22:35:25 <ais523> I even have a PhD in that
22:35:34 <ais523> going too far out-of-field, it'd be hard for me to demonstrate I had relevant experience
22:36:23 <shachaf> Oh, that reminds me that I forgot to read your thesis.
22:37:13 <shachaf> I guess most jobs in computer science research are in academia?
22:37:46 <ais523> that said, one of the things I'm thinking about is working for a research department of a company
22:37:57 <ais523> but I don't know how many would be working in the fields I have experience in
22:38:46 <shachaf> Are you interested in non-research computer jobs?
22:38:54 <shachaf> Not that I know much about how the whole thing works in the UK.
22:39:04 <ais523> to some extent, those are the likely "fallback"
22:39:23 <ais523> but companies are unwilling to hire someone with a PhD for a position that doesn't need one, as they assume that you'll jump ship when a better position comes along
22:40:29 <ais523> not sure (second-hand information), it seems plausible though
22:40:31 <shachaf> I think I heard that Google typically hires people with PhDs at one level above people without.
22:40:52 <shachaf> Often for roughly the same sort of work.
22:41:01 <shachaf> But I might be wrong about the sort of work or the rest of it.
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22:42:11 <ais523> the problem with working for Google is that it's physically in London
22:42:31 <ais523> and I was hoping for a job somewhat nearer
22:42:47 <ais523> (London is just about within reasonable commuting range in terms of time, but not in terms of money spent)
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22:43:16 <shachaf> Well, only an example that I heard about.
22:44:00 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that makes it still faster, I expect, but probably not any less expensive
22:45:02 <ais523> (also, terminating at Curzon Street Station is possibly not the best of plans; sure, it's a disused station in the centre of Birmingham, so must have seemed like a good idea, but the *reason* it's disused is that it's sufficiently far from the centre that people forgot about it)
22:45:12 <shachaf> What sort of expense is it?
22:48:16 <ais523> shachaf: if using a slow train and buying the ticket well in advance, it appears to cost £16 in each direction: http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/BHM/EUS/031016/0900/arr/031016/1700/dep
22:48:25 <ais523> that requires getting up over three hours in advance
22:49:26 <ais523> the fastest trains appear to cost £85 one way
22:49:39 <ais523> with no benefit for buying a return ticket
22:50:24 <ais523> or £55 if you miss rush hour
22:51:44 <shachaf> Well, Birmingham is over 100 miles from London, apparently.
22:51:54 <shachaf> Sounds like a scow commute no matter what the price is.
22:52:24 <ais523> it is probably the most heavily competed and optimized intercity journey
22:52:30 <ais523> but even then it's not what you want to be doing on a commute
22:52:54 <shachaf> In a situation like that I think I'd prefer to just move to London.
22:53:25 <ais523> (not to mention, there's /also/ the issue of getting to the exact endpoints that you want; there actually used to be a high-rise block of flats physically above New Street Station but it's been demolished, and a job in London is unlikely to be right next to Euston or Marylebone)
22:53:50 <shachaf> That's what fizzie did, rather than commute from Finland.
22:54:24 <ais523> yes but commuting from Finland to London is probably not temporally viable
22:55:05 <ais523> you *might* be able to do it fast enough in a military plane, but that would be cost-prohibitive in addition to probably not available to the general public
22:57:25 <ais523> incidentally I think the UK has at least one startup that's trying to substitute planes for trains, but I don't know how popular they are
22:57:34 <ais523> there's also the possibility of coach travel I guess, let me check hat
22:59:53 <ais523> £20 return but it takes over 2 and a half hours each way
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23:00:19 <ais523> this is believable, the coaches are limited by the road speed limit of 70mph, the rail speed limits are higher
23:00:34 <ais523> maybe we should build a hyperloop :-P
23:00:44 <shachaf> You should bring that up in #trains.
23:01:02 <ais523> (note: the UK is a very unlikely place to build one, our population density is very high, meaning that finding a path for new transport corridors is very hard)
23:01:34 <shachaf> It isn't all that easy in the US either.
23:01:57 <shachaf> Anyway you could move to California. I heard that's where all the cool people go.
23:02:20 <ais523> if I'm unwilling to move within the UK (and I am), I don't want to move to the US either
23:03:47 <shachaf> Oh, I didn't see that you were unwilling to move.
23:03:47 <quintopia> that's the reason i never found an industry job i think. i was unwilling to compromise and take a job that didn't absolutely thrill me
23:05:01 <ais523> quintopia: I think half of my problem may be taking job postings at face value
23:05:10 <ais523> if they ask for a bunch of experience I don't have I tend not to apply
23:05:48 <shachaf> Yes, job postings are scow.
23:06:52 <shachaf> The whole system is a mess.
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23:23:01 <lambdabot> LOWI 302150Z AUTO 11005KT 9999 BKN100 20/17 Q1017
23:23:38 <lambdabot> EGBB 302150Z 33007KT CAVOK 14/09 Q1016
23:23:46 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
23:23:47 <HackEgo> metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks.
23:23:49 <lambdabot> CYUL 302200Z 19012KT 30SM FEW060 FEW240 25/12 A3004 RMK SC1CI1 SC TR SLP174 DENSITY ALT 1100FT \ ENVA 302150Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW004 SCT090 12/10 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 33004KT \ ESSB 302150Z AUTO 23004KT 9999 FEW039/// SCT170/// 16/15 Q1005 \ KOAK 302153Z 30016KT 10SM FEW008 20/13 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP103 T02000133
23:24:25 <lambdabot> LLBG 302220Z 15005KT 9999 SCT023 27/23 Q1006 NOSIG
23:24:36 <lambdabot> KPHX 302151Z 24010G14KT 10SM FEW120 FEW150 SCT200 37/18 A2979 RMK AO2 SLP067 CB DSNT N AND E-SE T03720183
23:24:41 <ais523> wow, we're using a botchain for something /other/ than a bot loop?
23:25:32 <lambdabot> KATL 302152Z 23005KT 10SM FEW034 FEW110 BKN200 BKN250 28/22 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP154 CB DSNT SE-SW T02780217
23:26:26 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
23:26:59 <shachaf> Oh, it was probably fungot or some other bot.
23:27:00 <fungot> shachaf: it will. business is mailing for individuals on the gas supplies.
23:27:28 <shachaf> ais523: Why do you like Birmingham?
23:27:55 <ais523> shachaf: I've lived here all my life and can't really function elsewhere for long periods of time
23:28:43 <shachaf> I've never been to Birmingham. That could be why I can't function for long periods of time.
23:51:25 <int-e> @tell oerjan more Erdős-Woods numbers: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/b059756.txt
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