←2016-08-02 2016-08-03 2016-08-04→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:05 <moon___> True enough
00:00:06 <moon___> :P
00:00:12 <wob_jonas> you can even rewrite autoexec so it does something different next time you boot, or boot linux
00:00:26 <wob_jonas> mind you, you could just boot linux from a user disk with a command after booting
00:00:29 <wob_jonas> so you don't really need that
00:00:31 <wob_jonas> but this way is better
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00:02:50 <moon___> actually, is it possible to use the DLX image bochs comes with over the serial port?
00:09:08 <moon___> i'd seriously like the compilers too you know :P, could that come as one last package?
00:09:20 <wob_jonas> what's DLX?
00:09:44 <moon___> Extremely minimal linux, comes with bochs (at least it did for me)
00:10:09 <wob_jonas> you can use linux from serial console much better than dos
00:10:33 <moon___> Ik, how would i do that with DLX tho? :P
00:10:58 <wob_jonas> lots of dos programs use the console and keyboard directly (even for just speed, when they wouldn't need to strictly speaking), but linux programs don't do that, they work fine in a virtual terminal that you control from serial terminal
00:11:11 <moon___> the DLX linux is the bochs demo
00:12:27 <wob_jonas> moon__: ask the linux guys. you probably have to make init spawn gettys on the serial terminal, do some config, and optionally also put the console (boot time and later debug messages and stdio for early userland boot script stuff) to the serial terminal,
00:12:36 <wob_jonas> and optionally put the console for the boot loader to serial terminal.
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00:16:51 <wob_jonas> moon__: I'm unlikely to send you the whole turbo pascal and borland C distributions, or all of dos or its installer, or all of norton utilities or its installer, or all of norton commander or its installer, or the windows or winword or excel installers. I have them, but I probably won't distribute them.
00:16:55 <wob_jonas> get them from somewhere else.
00:17:00 <moon___> kk
00:17:11 <wob_jonas> I think you can find the turbo pascal and borland C somewhere on the internet
00:17:25 <wob_jonas> finding hungarian version of excel 5 might be more difficult
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00:20:28 <wob_jonas> this stuff isn't even big. I have all the dos stuff on a one gigabyte large image of which about 25% is free space, and it includes all the above and more, and is quite close to what I had on my first computer back when I had 2 decimal gigabytes of hard disk, \
00:21:04 <fizzie> You used to be able to find all that stuff on abandonware sites no problem. Well, maybe not the Hungarian Excel.
00:21:09 <wob_jonas> omitting the linux install on a 850 megabyte partition (to which I had to install and uninstall programs to make them fit because I didn't know what I could safely remove), and omitting the minimal windows 95 install that's on a 50 megabyte sized compressed partition and boots from a floppy. I had no easy way to backup at that point, because hdd or
00:21:09 <wob_jonas> cd burners were expensive.
00:21:41 <wob_jonas> so basically all my useful dos stuff is about 750 megabytes, including installers and games,
00:22:05 <wob_jonas> plus there's a few hundred megabytes (mostly some games) I've lost permanently from a hard disk failure earlier.
00:24:07 <wob_jonas> there's a lot of small old software in there
00:24:32 <izabera> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/711770/fast-implementation-of-rolling-hash am i reading this correctly? they say to compute hash1 = [0]*base^(n-1) + [1]*base^(n-2) + ... + [n-1] but they always multiply by the same number?
00:25:16 * izabera isn't sure because 12 people thought it's correct
00:25:21 <fizzie> I keep a 'dos' directory that I had on a computer, it's full of random silly little programs from the era where I went "well C:\DOS is in PATH so I'll just stick stuff there".
00:25:42 <wob_jonas> fizzie: that's one of the things I cleaned up properly back on dos
00:25:55 <wob_jonas> I made a C:\PATH directory for all the miscellania I run
00:27:13 <fizzie> I never managed.
00:27:44 <fizzie> Which makes no sense, because I did set PATH.
00:28:02 <fizzie> Although I'm pretty sure this autoexec.bat I'm looking at is not mine.
00:28:37 <fizzie> Or, huh. Maybe it is.
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00:29:06 <wob_jonas> so the path contains C:\PATH;C:\DOS;C:\NC;C:\NU;C:\WINDOWS;C:\BC\BIN;C:\TP\BIN;C:\NAV
00:29:13 <wob_jonas> it varied a bit, but that's basically it
00:29:16 <fizzie> I remember some things (like these goto %config% target labels), but some of them seem really off.
00:29:57 <fizzie> This PATH contains C:\BC45\BIN;C:\IEXPLORE;C:\ANIPAINT;C:\CPQDOS;C:\;C:\DOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\MOUSE;C:\SB16;C:\PGP;C:\SE;C:\MCAFEE;C:\PMAIL;c:\cdtsr but I'm... a bit suspicious.
00:30:32 <wob_jonas> I see
00:30:56 <fizzie> (I don't know what all that stuff even is.)
00:32:04 <fizzie> I do remember using 4dos a lot.
00:32:26 <shachaf> i remember borland turbo-c
00:32:29 <shachaf> it was tg
00:32:34 <wob_jonas> C:\PATH contains the joe editor, mouse, the more frequently used compressors (pkzip, pkunzip, arj, rar), setup.bat that invokes c:\windows\setup because otherwise c:\dos\setup (which is useless) would shadow it, and a few other things
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00:34:19 <moon___> wob_jonas: does the amount of Cylinders Heads and Sectors matter for the DOS img? i bet it does
00:35:04 <wob_jonas> moon__: it sort of might matter. but you can set it to any sane amount.
00:35:10 <wob_jonas> actually, I'm not sure it matters
00:35:15 <wob_jonas> I think it matters only for fdisk basically
00:35:20 <wob_jonas> but everything else uses lba
00:35:36 <wob_jonas> fdisk just makes sure to write the partition table to cylinder boundary to make it compatible with old stuff
00:35:48 <wob_jonas> although I'm not really sure
00:35:57 <wob_jonas> set it sanely and then you can't have a problem
00:36:13 <wob_jonas> (basically just set it to 63,255 and as many cylinders as completely fit)
00:36:26 <wob_jonas> and make sure the bios (emulator) and the partition table agree in them
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00:37:04 <moon___> its complaining it cant open the drive image, wtf?
00:37:04 <wob_jonas> the best way for that is to erase the disk to all zeros (not only the partition table, but where each boot sector goes) and then create them with fdisk and format
00:37:35 <moon___> thats what i get for using it on windows *shrug*
00:37:39 <wob_jonas> note that dos (including the format program) is stupid, and will believe some values in the mbr AND the old boot sector blindly, which is why you should zero the boot sector before formatting a drive
00:37:42 <wob_jonas> fdisk doesn't zero it
00:37:49 <wob_jonas> (this is old dos lore)
00:38:36 <wob_jonas> so start from a clean all zeros hard disk image, boot from boot floppy, partition hard disk with DOS fdisk, reboot, boot from boot floppy, use DOS format command
00:38:43 <quintopia> helloerjan
00:38:43 <wob_jonas> then it's safe to copy data in there
00:39:54 <moon___> its unable to find the disk when i have the path everything and all that, its complaining
00:39:55 <moon___> ):
00:40:08 <wob_jonas> don't forget to tell fdisk to make the mbr bootable (set boot partition)
00:40:32 <wob_jonas> AND to make the file system bootable by formatting it with format /s or with the DOS sys command after it's formatted (
00:40:33 <wob_jonas> )
00:40:48 <moon___> its not loading the floppy for some odd reason
00:41:32 <moon___> NVM there it goes
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00:42:16 <oerjan> hellopia
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00:42:48 <wob_jonas> oh, and virtualbox uses some custom disk format for hard disk, not raw hard disk image, so either you have to create the hard disk image with virtualbox, or use some arcane incantations to virtual box to turn a raw image to its favourite format
00:42:58 <moon___> ik
00:43:08 <moon___> im using bochs, i had it installed, but didnt like it
00:43:15 <moon___> and now i got it working
00:43:17 <moon___> :P
00:43:22 <wob_jonas> you could try raw qemu too
00:43:51 <moon___> how do i get what discs are avaliable?
00:44:41 <wob_jonas> moon__: um, what do you mean?
00:44:49 <moon___> Drives
00:45:00 <moon___> What drives are avaliable
00:47:35 <wob_jonas> um, from what? dos? bochs?
00:47:40 <wob_jonas> outside? inside?
00:48:08 <moon___> DOS
00:48:20 <moon___> Srry about being uninformative :P
00:49:26 <wob_jonas> use the fdisk utility, it's interactive and console-based (there's a non-interactive read-only more), it tells how many hard disks the bios sees and how many partitions dos sees on them
00:49:49 <wob_jonas> alternately the de and ndd programs from norton utilities also tell how many physical disks you have
00:51:32 <wob_jonas> then dos sees the partitions as logical disks, denoted by C:, D:, etc, but those letters also include ram drives and cd drives and possibly other, which programs can access logical sector-based through dos, or the file system on them if there's one
00:51:46 <wob_jonas> format formats the logical disks
00:52:17 <wob_jonas> cds work differently though
00:52:20 <wob_jonas> they still get a drive letter
00:53:35 <wob_jonas> oh, and lba sectors are numbered from 1, there's no sector 0
00:53:42 <wob_jonas> this one confuses the hell out of me all the time
00:53:45 <wob_jonas> be careful with it
00:53:48 <wob_jonas> sector 1 is the boot sector
00:54:00 <wob_jonas> sector number 0 is not used for arcane historical reasons
00:57:03 <moon___> kk
00:57:11 <wob_jonas> or something
00:57:13 <wob_jonas> I dunno how this works
00:57:16 <wob_jonas> seriously
00:57:45 <moon___> lol
00:59:28 <moon___> Tip: PowerISO is cancer, dont even peek like it did, i opened installer, and it was offering me random software
00:59:42 <moon___> Deleted\
01:03:16 <wob_jonas> my joe-editor for dos is about 260 kilobytes in size (not copressed) it seems, including the executable and config file (that's all you need to run) but not sources
01:03:47 <wob_jonas> moon__: tell use how you fare with this
01:04:04 <moon___> ?
01:04:33 <moon___> Also, Virtualbox finally got that emulator bug fixed, it can now run that one version of the linux kernal that it used to cause a race on
01:05:09 <wob_jonas> moon__: as in, tell me later if you manage to get it working, or where you're stuck
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02:03:29 <moon___> wob_jonas?
02:03:39 <moon___> b_jonas?
02:04:07 <moon___> Hmph, anyone know how to prevent people from formating C:\ on MS DOS 6.22?
02:07:13 <oerjan> handcuffs hth
02:07:35 <moon___> lol, this is in bochs if it help
02:08:17 <oerjan> it doesn't because i have no clue hth
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02:12:45 <oerjan> `? tanebventions: linguistics
02:13:00 <HackEgo> tanebventions: linguistics? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:14:54 <oerjan> `lastfiles
02:15:01 <HackEgo> wisdom/nundrum
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02:30:11 <boily> `? tanebventions
02:30:13 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
02:30:28 <boily> `? tanebventions: math
02:30:29 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the reals, Lambek's lemma, the Hodge star operator, pointless topology, and histograms.
02:30:41 <boily> sounds well-rounded.
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03:26:01 <hppavilion[1]> I don't get the phrase "ugly as sin"
03:26:11 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, trig functions are awesome
03:27:05 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] -----###
03:27:22 <oerjan> 'cos you deserved it.
03:30:00 <hppavilion[1]> Would a wikipedia article for "List of crazy shit said by Donald J. Trump" break NPOV?
03:30:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Obviously, not with that name- probably more along the lines of "List of controversial statements made by Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential race"
03:30:34 <hppavilion[1]> )
03:30:44 <orin> probably not
03:30:55 <hppavilion[1]> orin: Probably not which way?
03:31:08 <orin> probably not NPOV
03:31:16 <hppavilion[1]> Because, while it is obviously getting /really/ close to NPOV, Trump DOES say a LOT of crazy things that it would be nice to have a neutral lookup of
03:31:41 <oerjan> well, they'd have to make one for hillary too, then.
03:32:02 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_Trump is probably basically that
03:32:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well of course
03:33:02 <hppavilion[1]> And honestly, saying "Donald Trump is an emotionally-unstable compulsive liar" probably doesn't really break NPOV at this point
03:33:32 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, Trump said Snowden should be "executed"
03:36:21 <orin> hppavilion[1]: he probably won't say that now, now that russia is on his side
03:39:50 <orin> "List of changes to the political positions of Donald Trump"
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04:23:38 <oerjan> . o O ( much adu about nothing )
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04:25:47 <shachaf> Where is a paper I can point someone to that has a formal definition of Leibniz's dy/dx notation?
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04:41:16 <Sgeo__> comex... isn't here
04:41:17 <Sgeo__> bah
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04:55:14 <oerjan> Sgeo__: he's in another channel.
04:56:26 <Jafet> do you really need to be formal about it? just divide the height thingy d^2 by the width (dx)^2 to get the slope, then simplify using (dx)^2 = dx^2
05:16:11 <orin> shachaf: I have a book about the hyperreals somewhere
05:16:19 <shachaf> The hyperreals are scow.
05:16:32 <shachaf> And in NSA they define dy/dx to mean something like the real part of some expression.
05:16:37 <shachaf> It's not literally dy divided by dx
05:25:09 <Jafet> non standard (crypt-)analysis
05:28:14 <orin> shachaf: the derivative of y is the standard (non infinitesimal) part of dy/dx
05:28:41 <shachaf> Right. So dy/du du/dx = dy/dx doesn't make sense seen as canceling.
05:29:17 <orin> shachaf: it does if you use the various properties of the st() function
05:32:19 <orin> in this case, the property st(xy) = st(x)st(y) : x,y finite
05:48:23 <oerjan> not much chance of getting a break in girl genius
05:49:16 * oerjan hopes zeetha and dimo won't get wasped
05:50:47 <oerjan> or violetta, hm
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06:15:41 <hppavilion[1]> Just found an xkcd I haven't seen before :D
06:15:45 <hppavilion[1]> http://xkcd.com/679/
06:18:37 <shachaf> oerjan: SPOILERS tdnh
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07:05:35 <oerjan> shachaf: sorry :(
07:05:51 <shachaf> I'll probably forget it by the time I read GG.
07:05:53 <shachaf> If I ever do.
07:06:28 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
07:06:58 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure my spoiler wasn't precise enough to matter unless you've been recently following.
07:07:25 <shachaf> I didn't mean to make you feel bad.
07:07:35 <shachaf> I should be the one who's apologizing.
07:07:41 <oerjan> EXACTLY
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07:08:41 <shachaf> So what does the notation dy/dx mean?
07:08:46 <shachaf> Please advise.
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07:09:13 <moonythedwarf> Moo
07:09:33 <oerjan> if y is a function f(x) then it means lim h -> 0 (f(x+h)-f(x))/h, hth
07:09:43 <oerjan> *-a function
07:10:19 <shachaf> y is a function or an expression?
07:10:31 <oerjan> i already corrected it
07:10:38 <shachaf> So is y an expression?
07:10:41 <oerjan> yeah
07:10:48 <shachaf> Does dy/dx mean D(\x.y)(x)?
07:11:00 <oerjan> pretty much.
07:11:05 <shachaf> That's what I was thinking.
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07:11:20 <shachaf> OK, now people say things like y^2 = x^2; d/dx both sides to get dy/dx = x/y
07:11:27 <shachaf> What's dy/dx in that case?
07:11:45 <oerjan> MAGIC
07:12:52 <oerjan> well, really the same thing.
07:13:44 <shachaf> When y isn't an expression in terms of x?
07:13:49 <oerjan> you're just assuming y is some expression in x.
07:14:06 <oerjan> and you want to solve for it, or something.
07:14:07 <shachaf> How can you use D if you can't make a function \x.y?
07:14:39 <oerjan> just think of y as a meta-variable?
07:14:47 <shachaf> I never meta-variable I didn't like.
07:14:52 <shachaf> But I'm not sure how it helps here.
07:15:09 <oerjan> of course then they'll turn it around and solve x in terms of y.
07:15:54 <shachaf> One property of dy/dx is that dx/dy = 1/(dy/dx)
07:16:17 <oerjan> indeed
07:16:40 <oerjan> what you can do is to think of this as both x and y being expressions in a third variable
07:17:40 <oerjan> and then dy = dy/dt * dt, where dt is just a formal term.
07:18:04 <moonythedwarf> Hmm? Wheres my jick? My client pinged me
07:18:08 <oerjan> an arbitrary nonzero constant, even.
07:18:17 <moonythedwarf> ??
07:18:18 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: when?
07:18:35 <moonythedwarf> its highlighting (oerjan) and then dy = dy/dt * dt, where dt is just a formal term.
07:18:38 <moonythedwarf> Wtf
07:19:03 <moonythedwarf> *shrug* onetime only i bet
07:19:33 <oerjan> and then dy = dy/dt * dt, where dt is just a formal term.
07:19:43 <moonythedwarf> Highlighted it again
07:19:44 <moonythedwarf> Wtf
07:19:53 <oerjan> fancy
07:20:00 <shachaf> twotime only i bet
07:20:17 <moonythedwarf> Got pinged somewhere else just now, also a apparently random highlight, wtf
07:20:33 <moonythedwarf> Irc had better explain
07:20:44 <oerjan> i think it's your client doing that hth
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07:21:28 <oerjan> check if it has some highlight settings.
07:21:30 <moonythedwarf> Ill check my HL filters
07:21:44 <oerjan> hey, binary search!
07:21:52 <oerjan> and then dy = dy/dt * dt, wh
07:22:05 <oerjan> where dt is just a formal term.
07:22:10 <shachaf> oerjan: you gotta be more like a cpu
07:22:15 <shachaf> start branch predicting hth
07:22:35 <moonythedwarf> Oh lol there was a stray 'a' in my j=highlight settings
07:22:38 <oerjan> it's hard to predict without data
07:22:52 <shachaf> Well, binary search is maximally unpredictable anyway.
07:22:58 <shachaf> That's the whole point.
07:23:24 <shachaf> But predicting nothing is worse than a wrong prediction.
07:23:31 <shachaf> Unless you care about spam, that is.
07:23:34 <shachaf> `1 allquotes
07:23:38 <HackEgo> 1/496:1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warr
07:23:39 <oerjan> OKAY
07:23:44 <shachaf> `spam
07:23:44 <HackEgo> 2/496:igal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. \ 5) <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 6) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 7) <SimonRC> TODO:
07:23:56 <moonythedwarf> Oh boy
07:25:43 <shachaf> oerjan: Anyway, what justifies the whole thing where you separate the dy and the dx?
07:25:56 <oerjan> MAGIC
07:25:58 <shachaf> dy/dx = y -> dy = y dx
07:26:24 <oerjan> seriously, is not like i formally know this.
07:26:42 <shachaf> No one formally knows this.
07:26:44 <shachaf> That's the thing.
07:26:48 <shachaf> But they all use it and it works somehow.
07:27:05 <shachaf> coïncidence?!
07:28:20 <shachaf> Anyway, can you do these tricks on derivatives with types?
07:28:29 <oerjan> wat
07:28:50 <shachaf> Let's see. T = T^7, so dT/dT = dT^7/dT, so 7*T^6 = 1
07:30:36 * oerjan sidles away
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07:42:13 <shachaf> L(x) = 1 + x*L(x), so dL(x)/dx = L(x) + x*dL(x)/dx
07:42:14 <shachaf> Who knows.
07:44:31 <oerjan> hm? that's just differentiating multiplication.
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08:57:45 <b_jonas> "Hmph, anyone know how to prevent people from formating C:\ on MS DOS 6.22?" => I think you don't understand how DOS works. DOS allows all programs full access to your system. Including booting a linux. Make backups if you have sensitive data.
09:09:49 <oerjan> b_jonas: you didn't ping him
09:16:12 <Jafet> are you sure? there were a lot of 'a's in that line
09:16:22 <oerjan> ...
09:16:55 <oerjan> Jafet: i think it was only "a" as a single word, although there's one there.
09:19:44 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: you've been unpinged hth
09:20:02 <oerjan> doesn't look overly present.
09:21:39 <shachaf> poochythedog
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09:40:16 <b_jonas> moon__: ^
10:30:09 <fizzie> Whoop, the wiki recent-changes bridge seems to have gone away again.
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12:33:04 <b_jonas> ok, so a unitary matrix is a square-shaped complex matrix whose columns are unit length and pairwise orthogonal, but if it's a real matrix then it's called an orthogonal matrix instead of a unitary matrix, and if it's a Christian religious denomination then they call it unitarian instead.
12:33:19 <b_jonas> this terminology is confusing, especially if you also add the Hungarian translations.
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13:29:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Z]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49067&oldid=47098 * TuxCrafting * (+41) Added a link to my implementation
13:30:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Z]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49068&oldid=49067 * TuxCrafting * (-77) y u lie
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14:54:13 <gamemanj> ...what would happen if you took a board designed to be used with a main processor, but noted that you couldn't use the main processor and could only use the co-processor? (The main processor would be responsible for initial data upload to the co-processor, though)
14:54:33 <gamemanj> Would that, for sufficiently annoying-to-use co-processors, be esoteric? :)
14:57:27 <b_jonas> gamemanj: do you mean a coprocessor like in the Sega Saturn which has two equally powerful processors, or a coprocessor as in an intel 80387 which is totally impossible to use without a 386 because it can't even sequence instructions or compute addresses on its own, or a graphics processor in a modern day computer?
14:57:46 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I was thinking the J1 coprocessor in the Gameduino.
14:59:01 <b_jonas> or say the processor in a large printer or printer-scanner on which you can even play Doom, or the processor in the router which runs linux or bsd even when your desktop is turned off, or the small processor in the keyboard, or the processor in ...
14:59:15 <b_jonas> these days we have powerful processors everywhere
15:00:39 <gamemanj> yep, hence I was thinking of a specific hardware platform in which the coprocessor has, among other things:
15:02:51 <gamemanj> code size limitations, and pretty much all available RAM (afaik not usable as code) is used for some hardware feature or another (so you have to make a choice between RAM or video)
15:03:36 <gamemanj> (like, you could sacrifice tile RAM, or maybe sacrifice sprite palettes/sprite image data)
15:04:22 <gamemanj> (and ofc you can still use the other sprite image RAM areas, but it still means you have less sprite images available)
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15:34:51 <alercah> gamemanj: sounds like graphics code
15:37:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Z]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49069&oldid=49068 * TuxCrafting * (+25)
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16:42:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SetBang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49070&oldid=47016 * * (+107) Third blog post.
16:48:16 <ybden> ooh, new setbang post
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16:49:14 <gamemanj> if a language is good for job security, I doubt I want to use it
16:49:40 <gamemanj> because that's usually "you go and everything collapses" kind of security
17:45:53 <orin> wasn't there a language recently where everything is a pointer to a pointer to a pointer?
17:46:31 <orin> and you could only do pinter arithmentic indirected through sevarl pointers as the only opearion?
17:46:44 <ybden> orin: 3*?
17:46:50 <orin> oh right
17:46:57 <ybden> or however it was stylised
17:47:02 <ybden> I tried doing some stuff with that
17:47:08 <ybden> It was fun
17:47:29 <orin> three star programmer
17:48:01 <ybden> orin: was that the name of the language, or are you calling me one?
17:49:03 <orin> that's the name
17:57:16 <ybden> ah
17:57:25 <ybden> Well, both would be correct, then :P
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18:14:01 <MoonyTheDwarf_> Someone please explain why 'Refrigerator' is in the topic
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18:15:25 <izabera> it's too hot without it
18:16:51 <MoonyTheDwarf_> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:17:05 <quintopia> MoonyTheDwarf_: its the last line of the haiku
18:17:14 <MoonyTheDwarf_> ?
18:17:57 <quintopia> telekinetic interdisciplinary refrigerator
18:20:39 <gamemanj> quintopia: ...because anything can be interdisciplinary, right?
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18:43:05 <izabera> `` unidecode $'\357\273\277'
18:49:51 <quintopia> gamemanj: duh
19:07:04 <orin> refigerator also has five syllables in Japanese
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19:25:44 <MoonyTheDwarf_> wanyone know how to set up serial over network for bochs?
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20:33:32 <hppavilion[1]> Horseshoe Theory is fun
20:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if I can combine it with the Political Compass or something...
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20:40:56 <izabera> protip: don't work in /tmp if it's a tmpfs and there's the slightest chance of a power fail
20:52:57 <hppavilion[1]> Protip: Follow all protips you see, because they're usually good advice
20:53:36 <fizzie> ProtIP: protects your IP address.
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21:02:33 <izabera> what happens if you don't? D:
21:02:51 <izabera> will hackers find where i live and tell isis to kidnap my dog?
21:03:00 <hppavilion[1]> New favorite hard-to-parse-but-still valid ("garden path") sentence: Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
21:03:10 <int-e> it depends... do you have a dog?
21:03:13 <izabera> n
21:03:15 <izabera> o
21:03:19 <int-e> then no.
21:03:22 <izabera> oh
21:03:24 <izabera> wait
21:03:27 <izabera> how did they know it?
21:04:37 <myname> from ypur ip, dude
21:05:02 <int-e> time to stop using Isabelle for today... I'm starting to find "by auto blast" amusing.
21:05:03 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, they just check the dog bit
21:05:33 <izabera> gotta get one of those fancy new dynamic ips
21:05:43 <shachaf> pooch bit?
21:12:18 <hppavilion[1]> We shouldn't use Appeals to Tradition in debates because they've always been considered invalid arguments
21:13:52 <hppavilion[1]> Non sequiturs are a bad form of reasoning because space monkeys are trying to conquer the moon
21:16:09 <shachaf> i get it
21:16:13 <shachaf> the joke is that you're arguing against classes of arguments by using those arguments themselves
21:16:14 <hppavilion[1]> People who invoke Ad Hominem are assholes
21:16:14 <izabera> fail
21:16:14 <hppavilion[1]> Ha! Ad Hominem apparently translates to "against the man"
21:16:14 <hppavilion[1]> Therefor, hippies can be called "Ad Hominites"
21:16:14 <shachaf> ad poochinem
21:17:44 <hppavilion[1]> If we allow Appeal to Fear to be used, then Trump will be elected
21:18:19 <shachaf> what about appeal to rudeness
21:20:41 <shachaf> i'm being rude now
21:20:41 <shachaf> but that's ok
21:20:42 <hppavilion[1]> My preferred argument is Appeal to the Supreme Court
21:20:42 <hppavilion[1]> :P
21:21:55 <hppavilion[1]> But the argument I like to use the most is (1) take the opponent's basic claim/evidence, assume it's true (letting other people debunk that, as I usually do mass debating) (2) show that, even if their evidence is true, their conclusion is still stupid because, once you calculate statistics, their are several other possibilities
21:22:06 <hppavilion[1]> For example, Trump claimed he saw New Jersey muslims cheering on 9/11
21:22:42 <hppavilion[1]> I did the math and found that there are a few thousand muslims in New Jersey whose birthday was on 9/11, so even if he did see that, it could very well have been a coincidence
21:24:35 * hppavilion[1] prays that that doesn't have any glaring flaws
21:29:52 <izabera> you came up with a pathetic excuse for something that didn't happen in the first place
21:30:31 <izabera> only making your opponent look more credible than you
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21:32:40 <hppavilion[1]> "Carl is a jackass." - Wikipedia, and not in the context of a quote
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21:47:58 <boily> `wisdom
21:48:09 <HackEgo> nundrum//A nundrum is the categorical dual of a conundrum: a problem whose solution is useless.
21:48:32 <shachaf> `wisdom
21:48:33 <shachaf> `wisdom
21:48:34 <shachaf> `wisdom
21:48:35 <shachaf> `wisdom
21:48:55 <HackEgo> turing//Turing is what you are doing when you Tur
21:49:03 <HackEgo> monoid//A monoid is the easy version of a category.
21:49:03 <HackEgo> hexchat//Hexchat is a variant of Smalltalk invented in Hexham.
21:49:03 <HackEgo> clbin//clbin is a "command line pastebin" web application: https://clbin.com
21:50:08 <shachaf> I thought "turing" meant "using the Internet".
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21:56:58 <moon___> i just got a amazing 46 FPS on a max size embark (dwarf fortress 0.43.05, 64bit)
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22:02:57 <orin> now flood the map with magma and see that go down to less than one
22:04:22 <moon___> lol
22:04:34 <moon___> it already halved, vut arill, 46 starting fps is new
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22:12:18 <boily> hellochaf, mhelloon___, hellorin!
22:12:45 <shachaf> @tell boily yo
22:13:59 <moon___> hi boily
22:16:46 <boily> @massages-loud
22:16:46 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
22:17:13 <boily> ???
22:19:07 <shachaf> `cwlprits clbin
22:19:15 <HackEgo> dipperswett
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22:25:47 <boily> @massages-loud
22:25:47 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
22:25:58 <boily> OKAY
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22:35:19 <orin> hellwob_jonas!
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22:40:30 <wob_jonas> the large fast SD card I ordered hasn't arrived, even though the delivery was estimated for up to today, and it comes from the UK
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22:42:27 <wob_jonas> `dateu
22:42:29 <HackEgo> 2016-08-03 21:42:19.388000000+00:00
22:42:41 <boily> the UK is faraway hth
22:43:07 <wob_jonas> boily: yeah, I heard scary stories
22:44:10 <boily> maybe Taneb is a nazgûl?
22:50:55 <MoonyTheHuman> hi wob_jonas
22:51:35 <wob_jonas> Hmm... if I digitally edit the airplane boarding pass to remove the LARGE ADS WITH FULL-COLOR PHOTO THAT TAKE UP A THIRD OF THE SHEET to conserve ink, but keep the barcodes and text data, would that be crazy of me?
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22:59:40 <hppavilion[1]> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U4kg2cHyP6k/URLY6BOsypI/AAAAAAAAA6E/HGLOlRU1HBc/s1222/foxnewsprime.jpg
22:59:44 <hppavilion[1]> Somebody needs to die
23:02:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:04:34 <boily> hppavellon[1]. this makes me angry.
23:04:57 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Me too.
23:05:06 <hppavilion[1]> I will find that article and execute the writer.
23:05:16 <shachaf> I don't think anyone needs to die.
23:05:25 <shachaf> And I particularly don't think you should talk about killing people.
23:05:26 <hppavilion[1]> Bullet to the stomach seems appropriate, unless there's something more ironic
23:05:27 <shachaf> Please don't.
23:05:32 <shachaf> Hey, stop it.
23:05:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Is there any more ironic, less illegal response?
23:05:53 <shachaf> I don't know or care.
23:06:14 <shachaf> Honestly, your jokes in here aren't funny anyway. I just ignore them.
23:06:23 <shachaf> But this is crossing some line.
23:06:42 <hppavilion[1]> :,(
23:06:58 <hppavilion[1]> I wasn't so much joking as I was appalled and angry
23:07:01 <int-e> . o O ( http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/serenity.png )
23:07:23 <shachaf> I don't see anything appalling.
23:07:41 -!- augur has joined.
23:07:50 <shachaf> Well, except for the bit where you're talking about murdering people.
23:07:53 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: A person who was tasked with writing a news article that would be read by many Americans about math said that prime number have "very little importance"
23:08:00 <hppavilion[1]> s/number/numbers/
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23:08:12 <hppavilion[1]> If it was just one guy being an idiot to himself, it'd be fine
23:08:21 <shachaf> int-e: ?
23:08:24 <hppavilion[1]> But this is an article that will be read by lots of people
23:08:33 <shachaf> Prime numbers have very little importance.
23:08:54 -!- Warrigal has joined.
23:08:55 <shachaf> Whereas death threats or whatever have a lot more importance.
23:09:09 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure prime numbers have a lot of importance to society
23:09:14 <hppavilion[1]> Like, y'know, encryption
23:09:37 <shachaf> Small amount of imortance. You can do encryption without prime numbers.
23:09:52 <shachaf> But that's not the point. Even if that person is wrong, your behavior is unacceptable.
23:10:13 <shachaf> I request that you stop.
23:10:20 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett.
23:10:32 <hppavilion[1]> Fine
23:11:31 <MoonyTheHuman> read this over. ??? never seen hppavilion[1] use that bad of a joke >_>
23:11:48 <hppavilion[1]> MoonyTheHuman: It's what happens when I'm angry
23:12:07 <hppavilion[1]> And keep in mind, I saw that in the middle of a long line of fox news fails and lies
23:12:35 <hppavilion[1]> For example, several disproportionate bar graphs where an increase of 1 would be represented as 8 times as much
23:12:42 <int-e> shachaf: it's a coping mechanism, though a bit leaky
23:13:11 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, I see now.
23:13:35 <myname> hppavilion[1]: just don't do news
23:14:04 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I have family that watches Fox News exclusively, so this is personal for me
23:14:26 <myname> american problems
23:14:40 <boily> int-e: int-ello. serenity?
23:14:47 <hppavilion[1]> So on a different note
23:14:52 <MoonyTheHuman> hmm.. Gimmie the latest D-Wave computer and a good prime number calculator. done. moar
23:14:56 <hppavilion[1]> What would be a better form of math education in the US
23:15:09 <MoonyTheHuman> Dunno
23:15:24 <hppavilion[1]> What classes should be mandatory (at what grades can they be taken, what grades must they be taken by), what do they cover, what options should be mandatorily available?
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23:15:48 <MoonyTheHuman> heres one: Vector\
23:15:55 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf please stop being such a grumpy codger
23:16:17 <Phantom_Hoover> how old are you hppavilion[1] anyway
23:16:47 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: no u
23:17:24 <int-e> boily: as long as I avoid reading between the lines
23:18:05 <shachaf> int-e: Perhaps I should use an IRC client that supports temporarily showing ignored text.
23:18:09 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: ...object to answer?
23:18:26 <hppavilion[1]> I do think schools should teach logic of some sort
23:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> (at least, a half-semester class where they go over logical fallacies and say why they're wrong and you shouldn't use them)
23:18:54 <myname> so that less people get reasonable grades?
23:18:57 <Phantom_Hoover> that's not how logical fallacies work
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23:19:06 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: I think it is?
23:20:22 <myname> hppavilion[1]: i have to tell you a truth
23:20:29 <myname> people are stupid
23:20:32 <myname> deal with it
23:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> 'logical fallacies' with the latin name and shit are kind of useless
23:20:41 <hppavilion[1]> myname: On average, people are average intelligence.
23:20:58 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Not really; and it would cover informal ones too
23:21:04 <myname> hppavilion[1]: that doesn't make most of the people less stupid
23:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> cognitive biases are the empirically-measurable equivalent and they don't work like a little book of Reasons People Are Wrong Online
23:21:32 <hppavilion[1]> (note: True Scotsmen get to skip the class)
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23:24:21 <boily> just opened my first pickled peppers. they taste good ^^
23:26:04 <Phantom_Hoover> you could go full UEF and try to coach people out of the fundamental attribution error but i imagine it'd be p tricky in real life
23:27:28 <oerjan> baroi lyereko
23:27:58 <shachaf> Good afternoon, oerjan.
23:28:09 <oerjan> Good evening, shachaf.
23:29:25 <boily> . o O ( baroi lyereko??? I have no fungotting clue... )
23:29:26 <fungot> boily: oct. 19, 2000
23:29:30 * oerjan notes that his procedure for reading the logs has become ridiculously convoluted.
23:29:36 <shachaf> How d'you do?
23:29:39 <oerjan> boily: *MWAHAHAHA*
23:29:40 <int-e> hoerjani
23:29:51 <oerjan> evenint-e
23:30:11 <boily> ubusuku oerjabuhle
23:30:14 <int-e> oerjan: not quite the same https://xkcd.com/609/
23:30:19 <oerjan> boily: it's transliterated, anyway.
23:30:34 <boily> ukrainian?
23:31:03 <oerjan> . o O ( is there a rickrolling wiki )
23:31:08 <oerjan> boily: nope
23:31:46 <oerjan> i assume ukrainian would use something dobry-like, like any good slavic language?
23:32:33 * oerjan has to cheat, anyway.
23:32:45 <boily> yeah, dobroho večora.
23:32:45 <oerjan> except i can guess it's a bantu language?
23:33:02 <boily> xhosa.
23:33:08 <oerjan> yay
23:33:12 <boily> yours is some sami variant?
23:33:14 <oerjan> no.
23:33:24 <boily> darn.
23:33:25 <shachaf> oerjan: jolly good show, old chap
23:33:31 <int-e> oerjan: (never) I (gonna) sincerely (give) hope (you) that (up) there (never) is (gonna) no (let) such (you) thing! (down!)
23:34:08 * boily subliminally mapoles int-e
23:34:23 <oerjan> i haven't used sami because the phrases i found did not seem to attach well to boily.
23:34:35 <oerjan> afair.
23:35:15 <oerjan> boily: hint?
23:35:22 -!- augur has joined.
23:35:44 <boily> not yet, still searching.
23:36:29 <boily> found!
23:36:33 <boily> eastern armenian.
23:37:17 <oerjan> int-e: to read the logs, i'm (1) making sure tunes is shown in utf-8 (it isn't always. in some cases i cannot even show it but have to save.) (2) copy into vim (3) break lines (4) load file in browser.
23:38:16 <shachaf> That sounds complicated.
23:38:19 <shachaf> You should automate it.
23:38:38 <oerjan> also the line breaking is convoluted too. i should make a macro.
23:39:12 <shachaf> Why is it convoluted?
23:39:33 <oerjan> boily: yep
23:39:51 <Phantom_Hoover> `? ngevd
23:39:53 <HackEgo> L½ŒÛµìüª¦¼Ð’ÝæÕ}9´Ï]Jm玅¾í[¸Ï¯0³óUÔ.Fi¸
23:40:02 <Phantom_Hoover> short, that time
23:40:15 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a normal mode command that only inserts one break (and indent) per affected line, so i repeat until it stops.
23:41:29 <oerjan> :%s/\(.\{75\}\) /\1^M /
23:42:37 <shachaf> Why don't you make a small web page that fetches the latest log, applies transformation, and serves it to your browser?
23:42:47 <oerjan> fancy
23:43:11 <shachaf> Then you could just go to that URL directly. It'd be so easy.
23:43:58 <oerjan> oh i forgot the step where i sometimes join two days hth
23:44:25 <shachaf> You can do that too.
23:44:39 <shachaf> With only a small amount of work you can ask for the logs for any time interval.
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23:45:15 <quintopia> coily!
23:47:58 <boily> quinthellopia!
23:48:20 <oerjan> ...so ghc is going to get a "bespoke" keyword.
23:48:26 <oerjan> (in deriving clauses)
23:48:41 <int-e> spooky
23:49:04 <oerjan> it's not a word i'm intuitively familiar with, although the dictionary meaning _does_ fit.
23:49:50 <oerjan> (it means to apply the specialized deriving method for a builtin class.)
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23:50:29 <oerjan> although it may not be used that much, being the default whenever applicable.
23:50:51 <oerjan> (i hope.)
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