00:00:09 Well 00:00:21 Here's WA's list of indeterminate forms 00:02:18 0^0, ∞/∞, 0∞, ∞-∞, 1^∞, and ∞^9 00:02:21 s/9/0 00:02:28 s/\$/\// 00:03:15 not 0/0 ? 00:03:24 oerjan: Oh, and 0/0 00:03:36 oerjan: That's the one I searched, and it provided a list of "other indeterminate forms" 00:03:44 ok 00:03:45 Wait, no it didn't 00:03:51 I searched 0^0 00:03:55 And just missed 0/0 00:04:00 So it is my incompetence 00:04:48 why's 1^infty indeterminate? 00:04:52 ∞^(-∞) should also work, i think 00:04:56 0^0 = 1, 0/0 = tau/2, ∞/∞=1, 0∞ = 0, ∞-∞ = 0, 1^∞ = 1, and ∞^0 = 1 00:04:59 There 00:05:01 That was easy 00:05:13 myname: Not really sure 00:05:26 hppavilion[1]: why is 0^x = 0 except for x=0? 00:05:30 myname: it means basically that when you have limits going to the parts, you cannot say anything about the limit of the whole 00:05:55 oerjan: i get that, but 1 is not a limit 00:05:56 (or hardly anything) 00:06:08 myname: anything can be a limit 00:06:11 myname: Because it's useful to have x^0=1 forall x, and x^0 is more important than 0^x, and THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE 00:06:33 hppavilion[1]: no there cannot 00:06:33 if x -> 1 and y -> ∞, you can say nothing about x^y. that's all. 00:06:34 oerjan: Can the limit be SPAAAAAAAAAAACE? 00:07:03 oerjan: but i do can say something about 1^x for every x 00:07:14 myname: 0^0 is either equal to 0 OR 1 OR undefined; you can't have x^0 = 1 and 0^x = 0 forall x 00:07:21 myname: you seem not to get the point. 00:07:36 oerjan: 1*1=1 00:07:41 1*1*1=1 00:07:42 hppavilion[1]: that's why it is indeterminate 00:07:58 myname: Yes, but having 0^0 = 1 adds nice things 00:08:30 no 00:08:42 yes it does. 00:08:56 but it's still indeterminate for calculus purposes. 00:09:47 If you have two real functions f x and g x that vanish at the origin and are analytic at 0, then (f x)^(g x) approaches 1 as x approaches 0 from the right 00:09:53 oh, grade publish{d his 69th video 00:09:56 I don't really understand most of what I just said, but it sounds like a good thing 00:10:01 myname: gradeAunderA? 00:10:07 yeah 00:10:09 Ah 00:10:14 That guy's an asshole 00:10:21 how so 00:10:27 oh wait, ∞^(-∞) doesn't work, scratch that, it's clearly -> 0. 00:10:28 I wish I could give him more than one like per video 00:11:17 oerjan: How does calculus work if you decide to use countable and uncountable infinities? 00:11:22 Does it make mathematicians cry? 00:11:32 Oh, today was my second day of precalc (w/ trig) 00:11:41 They taught Set-Builder notation, and I was happy 00:12:21 But then, when she wanted "the set of all multiples of pi" and I gave {n | n in Z} 00:12:31 She said that that doesn't work ;-; 00:12:39 hppavilion[1]> If you have two real functions f x and g x that vanish at the origin and are analytic at 0, then (f x)^(g x) approaches 1 as x approaches 0 from the right <-- wat, i don't believe that. 00:12:41 why not 00:12:53 Because the form that the book wants is {x | x=n, n in Z} 00:12:57 Which is stupid and ugly 00:13:32 indeed it is 00:13:41 Any mathematician will tell you they're obviously equivalent, and that the notation is pretty standard, but that mine looks better 00:14:03 (I think she also had the whole numbers as 0,1,2,3... and the naturals as 1,2,3...) 00:14:07 hppavilion[1]: the infinities in calculus have nothing to do with cardinalities, so that's just nonsense. 00:14:17 oerjan: Exactly, I figured that was the case 00:14:58 (And I think maybe she said that you write the irrationals with a blackboard bold I? I've never heard of that being the rule, and I think I saw a thread asking what to use and the answer was "choose whatever and define it at the top") 00:15:14 hppavilion[1]: the alternative answer to your question is "lebesgue measure theory" hth 00:15:39 (but then it's not the values that are the infinities, but the sizes of sets) 00:15:44 (there needs to be a name for the non-zero reals, the positive reals, the positive reals plus zero, the negative reals, and the negative reals plus zero...) 00:15:48 (and the integers minus 0) 00:16:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:16:18 "whore houses are like disney land for guys. that is where wet dreams come true" 00:17:12 Because the form that the book wants is {x | x=n, n in Z} <-- welcome to "lies to children", i think. 00:18:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:18:35 myname: Whore houses are just New Orleans square, thankyouverymuch 00:18:43 oerjan: Yep 00:18:48 oerjan: I mean, it's still valid 00:18:57 A computer that could read set-builder notation would get the same answer 00:19:23 It isn't even mathematically a "weird notation"- it's normal notation, it just is doing it the stupid way 00:19:36 It's like the set {x | x in Z} 00:19:40 You could just say Z 00:19:56 hppavilion[1]: the "do naturals include 0" question splits even professional mathematics, so don't complain _too_ much about hth 00:20:18 (in fact, I think she asked for the set {1, 2, 3...}- expecting it in set-builder- and I just said "N") 00:20:24 oerjan: Good? 00:21:02 oerjan: The real issue is that one side has WITH zero as "whole numbers" and WITHOUT as "natural numbers", and the other side has WITH zero as "natural numbers" and WITHOUT zero as "whole numbers" 00:21:06 (I'm in the second camp) 00:21:30 I think she even said- like, specifically, writing it out- that the whole numbers (in this case with zero) are written with the double-struck W 00:22:06 Which is presumably true, but nobody ever really does that in my experience and if you used it without defining it 15% of readers would have no idea what you're talking about 00:23:14 (I'm probably also going to get marked down for replacing variables like t or m- which are stupid variables that you don't use unless you've already used x, y, and z or you're specifically dealing with things like time- with x when there is no other x in this equation) 00:23:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:24:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:24:04 *crash* 00:24:38 I think she also said that the irrationals are written I, but http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/61269.html claims that I is for the integers (but that Z is also reserved for them, and is more common) 00:24:45 * boily pokes hppavilion[1] in the stability bits 00:24:53 boily: ? 00:24:57 Also, ahoily 00:25:00 Did you just join? 00:25:09 hppavellon[1]. no, I was on the phone with the SO. 00:25:18 Ah 00:25:37 hppavilion[1]: i'm not sure most professional mathematicians use "whole numbers" at all hth 00:25:42 boily: I've been ranting about the common core (or about my precalc teacher, depending on whether the things she's saying are from the common core) 00:26:07 what is common core? 00:26:14 oerjan: Yeah, but I think mathoverflow said that if the naturals include 0 and you want to refer to the numbers without 0, then you say "whole numbers" 00:26:16 just use N^+ and N_0 twh 00:26:37 (incidentally, the obvious translation of "whole number" into norwegian (heltall) means integer, period.) 00:26:46 myname: That works, but I want to abbreviate it xD 00:26:55 oerjan: ...great 00:27:09 boily: It's a unified standard in the US that is being used to try to fix our failing education system 00:27:15 hppavilion[1]: because an extra small symbol takes too much space? 00:27:20 *hele tall, unless you're composing words 00:27:24 myname: No, because it clutters 00:27:38 huh? 00:28:03 In the general view, it's a rule that says what students need to know at the end of the year at minimum (each year has to teach this list of things if the student hasn't already leaned them: {...}) 00:28:44 myname: Having an extra superscript + or subscript 0 makes it look like there's a set N, and that we're referring to a set derived from it 00:29:28 boily: In the more specific case, common core takes a rather feeble and over-practicalized view of education, puts it in a too-strict form, and regiments teachers down to the minute 00:30:01 So teachers can't slow down and spend an extra few days on something that this class has trouble with or skip over a section everybody already knows 00:30:06 hppavilion[1]: well, we do 00:30:18 myname: ? 00:30:43 boily: For example, there's an image on the internet of a quiz filled out by a third grader or something 00:30:57 N^+ = { n | n in N, n > 0 } and N_0 = { 0 } cup N 00:31:05 hppavilion[1], from what i've heard common core is mostly a scapegoat 00:31:11 works for both definitions of N 00:31:14 And there's a question asking the student to solve "5*3" using "the addition strategy" (which, presumably, is where you just add stuff up) 00:31:27 And the student did 5+5+5 = 15 00:31:31 And the question was marked wrong 00:31:41 With the correct answer being "3+3+3+3+3 = 15" 00:31:46 boily: See the problem? 00:31:58 Uh-huh, that's stupid 00:31:59 ... 00:32:15 yeah but it turns out there's more to it than pictures that go around on facebook 00:32:16 * boily attaches himself to his beloved Canada. 00:32:24 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, probably 00:32:45 of course it's hyperbolic and probably apocryphal, but still. it's *juuuust* so believable... 00:32:50 coily 00:33:00 Phantom_Hoover: But seriously, even if the rest of the system turns kids into ripped supergeniuses, the fact that something like that happened under it is absurd 00:33:15 does fungot string together trigrams or longer or shorter? 00:33:16 quintopia: mr president, in its wisdom, that decides whether the measures adopted to date with poultry cages and provide for the continuance of the current member states. 00:34:04 boily: I don't think it's so much that the book said that doing 5+5+5 is wrong and 3+3+3+3+3 is right so much as it only listed 3+3+3+3+3, and the people in charge of grading the paper were mathematically illiterate and not qualified to be teaching math 00:34:25 quinthellopia 00:34:27 But no matter how well your curriculum tells teachers what to teach, if the teacher doesn't get it the class won't work 00:35:38 i mean a big part of it is that american right-wingers need to feed their 'this country is going to the dogs and we need to go back to the good times' narrative 00:36:12 so blaming the common core for every problem in the education system is very attractive to them 00:36:53 the 5+5+5 vs. 3+3+3+3+3 thing stems from a reasonable didactic idea that is incredibly stupid when used in a standardised test 00:38:32 does fungot string together trigrams or longer or shorter? <-- variable length 00:38:33 oerjan: draftsman of the opinion of an institution that has the power and working methods for cooperation in the fields of teaching and culture, to education and the media, which will be granted to the court of first instance. 00:38:58 oerjan: random variable length? or adaptive? 00:39:50 quintopia: IIRC it's a fixed length but the length depends on which ^style is set 00:39:57 ah 00:40:35 it's not the length that counts, it's how many styles fungot has. 00:40:36 i wonder what we'd get running it on the entire google 3-grams dataset. 00:40:36 boily: mr president, of course, not represented here today for this big debate. perhaps just for once i will also be ready by that time the commission made its own contribution. my colleague, mr liikanen, mrs wallström, to issue instructions. i can illustrate the problem using the example of mr cox understanding what was agreed in cardiff and which now goes ahead in the union already have a staff of only some 30 officials who c 00:40:36 iirc it's variable. adaptive presumably. 00:40:59 fizzie!!!!! 00:41:18 ^source 00:41:18 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 00:41:21 erm 00:41:23 ^help 00:41:23 ^ ```; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 00:41:24 i think we need a "trump stump speeches" style 00:42:20 "•Nonsense generation based on variable-length ngram models." 00:42:46 believe me. if fungot spoke like Trump, it would be yuuuge! No one else can make fungot sound better. i kid you not. 00:42:47 quintopia: mr president, on the resources available under the fisheries agreement between the council and, of course, to be trying to find solutions other than allowing refugees to settle in any part of the negotiations. on the other the programme for community research and the possible insertion of a specific paragraph or chapter in order to do so, we have studied this report and its recognition that the community structures, 00:44:34 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49630&oldid=49629 * Darkrifts * (+181) 00:44:41 YES! 00:44:42 YES! 00:44:46 GAWKER IS FINALLY DEAD! 00:44:50 *WOOHOO* 00:45:25 I guess the best way to view this is: if you have a business model that involves picking on rich people who can afford to hire good lawyers, make very very sure you don't do anything illegal 00:45:52 ais523: Yep 00:46:31 ais523: If a judge orders you do do something, you do it. You don't publish an article saying "A judge ordered us to do this, but we're just going to ignore him" 00:46:41 hppavilion[1]: huh? the whole gawker network thing? 00:47:11 boily: The main blog has shut down (looks like the website will be staying up, at least for a little while, but there'll be no new content) 00:47:19 Univision published various other properties 00:49:02 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:49:15 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:50:11 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:08:15 another legitimate-looking edit caught in the filter, and no sign of attempting to follow the new procedure :( 01:09:34 oerjan: people can't read? 01:09:36 otoh i've seen no legitimate _registrations_ yet, so it seems a bit early to declare it a total failure. 01:10:06 quintopia: or they cannot be bothered. it requires registering ++, after all. 01:10:45 oerjan: well, i doubt it's much of a big loss. 01:10:48 probably not something people do just for correcting a couple typos. 01:11:35 quintopia: well it remains to be seen if _anyone_ bothers. 01:12:00 yeah, but if they try to do that and fail, won't their failed attempt be recorded and we can fix whatever they were trying to fix for them? 01:12:37 quintopia: well sure, we could do that recent edit. int-e did one previously. (i'm not sure if it's actually correct, though.) 01:13:29 this requires paying much more attention to the abuse filter log than i've previously done, anyhow. 01:13:44 (and i'm not promising to keep doing it.) 01:13:57 can anyone see it? 01:14:14 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseLog/6629 01:14:53 at least int-e could, and he's not an admin. 01:17:30 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:18:45 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 01:22:49 i like how "denier", traditionally a measure of the fineness of silk or rayon, is now more commonly used (and mispronounced) as "one who denies" 01:23:17 i like to imagine that holocaust denier is a way to measure the fineness of a holocaust 01:29:37 quintopia: 'deni-er' versus 'dín(a|e)r' 01:31:17 i'm not familiar with this particular phonetic notation system 01:32:12 i guess (a|e) is some way to represent æ as a more drawn-out diphthong? 01:32:45 what are you talking about mispronunciations 01:33:23 unless someone is saying de-nye-er about tights there are no mispronunciations involved 01:38:30 quintopia: nope it is just that you could have eather a or e there 01:38:42 a bit like regexp notation 01:39:35 quintopia: something similar happened in german to auspowern 01:39:41 Phantom_Hoover: i could have said "pronounced using a different modernly-invented pronunciation that mayn't even be standard yet" but that would be somewhat wordy 01:40:30 Zarutian: look at Phantom_Hoover's pronunciation guide. it makes a lot more sense than yours 01:41:48 auspowern used to come from the french pauvre and shifted towars the english power 01:58:56 <\oren\> I am back in YYZ finally! 01:59:07 <\oren\> @metar cyyz 01:59:08 CYYZ 240000Z 22012KT 15SM SCT120 BKN250 25/14 A3020 RMK AC4CI1 SLP227 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 01:59:13 he\\oren\! 01:59:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RIDGE CHICKEN). 01:59:28 -!- Roxxik has joined. 01:59:34 ...oh i thought you meant the rush song 02:03:48 Oooh, here's a way to make your musical notation horrifying 02:03:57 Use a normal half note ("minim") 02:04:04 And add a tail to the stem 02:05:36 `8ball is my suspicion right? 02:05:37 Better not tell you now. 02:05:41 darn. 02:05:52 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:07:22 hppavilion[1]: That would probably be parsed as an unusual way of writing a quarter note. 02:07:35 pikhq: Yeah, that's what I thought 02:07:47 pikhq: But also include quarter notes so that people are unsure 02:08:03 And maybe occasionally have notes with the flag on the other side, or mirror the note entirely 02:08:16 bindun 02:08:32 (whole and half rests have a terrible notation) 02:08:36 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:08:58 There's a few other novelties you could use, such as the flagged longa. :) 02:09:53 hppavilion[1]: no need to obfuscate. you should always strive to make your musical notation as clear and concise as possible. for instance, look how simple and readable that is: https://prestonparish.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/last.gif 02:10:34 quintopia: The point of this is that it's obfuscated, to make the sheet music as intimidating and horrifying as possible 02:10:50 Maybe a whole note, but filled in like a quarter note's head 02:11:09 quintopia: The further along that gets, the less valid and playable it gets. 02:11:45 ...does that music require that I take square roots? 02:11:48 pikhq: that last note is wonderful 02:11:51 It starts looking like it's just written for robots or something, and goes all the way into nonsense. 02:11:51 I'm seeing some square roots in there 02:12:21 (since the "filled in head" isn't usually parsed as "make it half the length" the way a flag is due to filling in being non-repeatable, it'd take a bit to figure it out) 02:12:26 -!- Roxxik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:12:30 as a former bass player, i can also identify strongly with the 437 measures of rest 02:12:38 :D 02:12:49 As a former bass singer, I too identify with it. 02:12:51 pikhq: How would a note with only half of the notehead filled in be parsed? >:) 02:13:03 hppavilion[1]: A punch to the head. 02:13:17 ... Of the composer, I should say. 02:13:20 pikhq: We'll assume that I'm long dead because I wrote classical music 02:13:43 There will be debates in academia about how it was intended to be played for ages. 02:13:53 pikhq: Excellent, excellent 02:14:37 I think I'll forge a piece of classical music (attribute it to a false (but plausible) composer so it isn't too illegal) and fill it with stuff like this 02:15:01 And a couple historical documents from other sources claiming it's "perhaps the most beautiful piece ever written" and such 02:17:27 (hm, how does one write "a chord, but in which some of the notes in it are held for longer than others" in normal notation? I'm certain that there's a simple, generally-accepted way that has been used for centuries because it seems like a pretty simple thing, but I can't remember since it's been years since I picked up a piano) 02:18:08 oh man. botanicsage just mashed up bowsers castle theme from smw with interior crocodile alligator :D 02:19:58 hppavilion[1]: Write two chords, one with and then one without the notes, and use a tie to connect them. 02:20:10 pikhq: Ah, yes 02:20:30 (what is the interpretation if you have a chord in which some noteheads are filled and others aren't? Probably something similar) 02:20:46 (the filled noteheads end a beat before the unfilled ones, almost certainly) 02:20:52 I don't think that would be conventional, but that'd be the likely interpretation. 02:27:59 -!- Roxxik has joined. 02:28:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:28:59 hppavilion[1]: that would usually only be used when there are multiple distinguishable voices/parts (e.g. right-hand/left-hand) 02:29:12 Hm... 02:29:20 i.e. if there is a chord played entirely by the left hand, multiple note values in the same chord would be obfuscatory, and so it would be done using ties 02:29:24 incomprehensibly: Nah, it's definitely possible 02:29:36 Ah, yes 02:29:36 but if there is a left hand chord and a right hand melody, it's ok to have totally different note values 02:29:48 hppavilion[1]: oh it's certainly possible, just confusing to the player and so is generally avoided 02:31:13 Question: Is it possible to make software that reliably plays relatively real-sounding music given a file that describes the music as a sort of electronic sheet music (probably some sort XML or JSON, but anything would work)? 02:32:06 you would probably want a MIDI file 02:32:08 (probably designed for music composition so you don't have to, y'know, find an entire orchestra to play it at the drop of a hat to make sure it sounds right) 02:32:21 incomprehensibly: That's what I figure 02:32:23 there's software of varying qualities 02:32:34 incomprehensibly: But I seem to remember MIDI not being exactly what I was going for 02:32:38 you can get something like Kontakt 02:32:55 which has pretty high quality sample libraries for various real pianos 02:33:09 Yep, looks about right 02:33:13 OK... 02:33:26 but "real-sounding" would require stuff like dynamics, interpretation, performance, which would not be contained in the sheet music and kind of depends on a human being there either to record the performance or to tweak all the notes 02:33:37 Yeah, of course 02:33:53 And are there any editors that use either something that looks approximately like real musical notation (WYSIWYGily) or a relatively easy DSL? 02:33:59 and you COULD write a program to fake all that stuff in a way that a good pianist would be able to tell was nonsense but could probably trick most people 02:34:02 That generate MIDI 02:34:07 hmm! sibelius and finale 02:34:08 I think 02:34:09 Ah, yes, of course 02:35:02 incomprehensibly: LilyPond is what sent me on this track, and it's been compared to Sibelius and Finale as being about the same, but LilyPond, AFAICT, doesn't play the music; just makes the sheet out of LaTeX 02:40:02 -!- Roxxik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:40:21 ah! cool 02:41:19 -!- Roxxik has joined. 02:41:48 incomprehensibly: Also, LilyPond is FOSS 02:42:08 (It looks like LilyPond is extensible, so someone is bound to have made a synthesizer by now) 02:42:23 neat 02:42:38 ah it can generate midi! 02:42:58 but not take it I don't think... 02:46:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:49:02 incomprehensibly: I don't need it to accept MIDI 02:49:06 incomprehensibly: Also, LilyPond can? 02:49:17 hppavilion[1]: yeah says in the documentation 03:01:24 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 03:03:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:11:50 -!- Roxxik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:20:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:56 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:39:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:03:07 -!- augur has joined. 04:17:09 AmigaMML is another program you can write music with, although it cannot output MIDI files. You can include dynamics and other stuff though, and does not require Amiga computer to be use 04:18:01 I think that XML is pretty bad for stuff that isn't markup-text 05:24:35 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:09:35 -!- carado has joined. 06:50:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:55:45 ...huh 06:55:53 New idea for irony punctuation: Escaping 06:56:19 "Where could you have possibly gotten that idea?": Normal; "Where could you have possibly gotten that idea\?": Sarcastic 07:04:26 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:04:40 -!- carado has joined. 07:26:18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe_Protection_Society is funny 07:26:48 "It is not clear in what sense the APS is a society, or how many members it has (if any), or from where it claims authority for its views. John Richards has never published a constitution, a list of members, or the criteria (if any) for membership. It is not known in what sense he is the chairman, how he was elected or appointed, or how he might be removed." 07:30:21 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:38:20 Ugh, inanimate whose is one of the little holes in English that, once you notice it, you can't close it 07:38:35 Some people use "of which", but others (including me) think it sounds overly formal 07:38:44 I generally use something sort of like "which's" 07:39:07 (but not quite; there's no glottal stop so it's more like... "whichs" 07:39:31 ``huh'' 07:39:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `huh'': not found 07:39:41 HackEgo, grow up 07:40:36 ) 07:40:50 So what does #esoteric think about the inanimate whose? 07:47:24 Yay! 07:47:42 I just reverted a vandalized Wikipedia page to an unvandalized revision! 07:58:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:04:26 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:04:49 -!- carado has joined. 08:07:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:07:07 -!- heroux has joined. 08:36:08 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 08:36:24 @tell ais523 Some of the styles have a fixed length, but the majority are based on variable-length models trained with https://github.com/vsiivola/variKN 08:36:24 Consider it noted. 08:36:31 quintopia: As above. ^ 08:44:16 what happened to gmane? 08:45:39 -!- Tefaj has joined. 08:46:04 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:47:54 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:48:31 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:55:35 -!- heroux has joined. 09:01:04 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:02:55 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 09:04:31 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:59 -!- carado has joined. 09:10:25 hppavilion[1], I tend to anthropomorphise inanimate objects to some extent anyway, inanimate whose doesn't bug me at all 09:13:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:20:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:20:54 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:28:34 -!- heroux has joined. 09:28:56 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:31:28 -!- aloril has joined. 09:39:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:43:28 -!- heroux has joined. 09:46:56 -!- Tefaj has changed nick to Jafet. 10:53:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:54:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:05:55 "Don't anthropomorphise ____, they *hate* that!" 11:25:03 zgrep: don't you hate being anthropomorphised?' 11:25:21 . o O ( "look at zgrep, he looks almost human!" ) 11:25:31 * zgrep beeps 11:26:19 It's so annoying being mistaken for something that has human qualities. 11:27:27 * zgrep is such a tool, found in every computer, essentially being gzip -d | grep 11:27:56 . o O ( zcat | grep ) 11:28:03 Yeppers. 11:28:05 . z Z meeeeow 11:28:31 * zgrep . o O ( I wonder why int-e doesn't use a CTCP action. ) 11:28:52 * zgrep . o O ( . o O ( . o O ( ... ) ) ) 11:28:58 zless is perhaps the program in that family that I use most often. 11:29:04 Cogito ergo cogito. 11:29:31 * zgrep doesn't actually use any of the z* commands... ._. 11:29:39 zgrep: because in the context where I developed the habit (some MUD), the output would've looked like this: [int-e . o O ( foo )] 11:29:48 Ah. 11:29:49 and it's not an alias. 11:30:24 * zgrep . o O ( Programs with aliases, they're hiding from someone, they must be criminals! ) 11:30:31 * zgrep . o O ( Or spies! ) 11:30:35 yes! 11:32:19 `speedtest 11:32:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: speedtest: not found 11:32:24 Ooh, fast. 11:32:42 HackEgo has sped up? 11:33:44 -!- boily has joined. 11:34:48 `wisdom 11:34:50 applicative functor//Applicative functors are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 11:35:02 apparently 11:35:22 > 1 11:35:25 1 11:35:35 @botsnack 11:35:36 :) 11:36:53 @tell zgrep Hello. 11:36:53 You can tell yourself! 11:36:58 No, I can't! 11:37:29 @tell lambdabot Hello. 11:37:30 Nice try ;) 11:37:34 Heh. 11:37:44 @tell thispersondoesnotexistyet Hello. 11:37:44 Consider it noted. 11:41:08 int-ello, zgrellop. 11:41:35 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 11:41:53 * zgrep boils boily as a greeting 11:43:16 `relcome AlexR42 11:43:18 ​AlexR42: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 11:44:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:56:28 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 12:02:24 I'm reading the scrollback again, about crazy sheets of five-line musical staff notation maybe parodies or maybe obfuscated stuff at https://prestonparish.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/viral-sheet-music-the-creative-notation-of-john-stump-and-others/ 12:06:13 (and about fungot) 12:26:37 fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOÔOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! 12:32:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARVEN CHICKEN). 13:12:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:52:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:55:35 -!- Reece` has joined. 14:04:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:10:27 -!- fungot has joined. 14:11:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:14:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:23:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:31:56 the CC0 license is surprisingly bloated 14:32:02 https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode 14:36:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:47:30 Jafet: it's not so surprising when you think about how it's trying to work in jurisdictions whose laws are actively hostile to the idea of relinquishing author rights. 15:09:51 hmm, "hostile" 15:10:41 That sounds so negative, but it is oddly approproate. 15:16:53 @tell hppavilion[1] Ugh, inanimate whose is one of the little holes in English that, once you notice it, you can't close it <-- wiktionary says _formerly proscribed_ 15:16:54 Consider it noted. 15:19:16 * oerjan notes that the corresponding norwegian pronoun is archaic. no idea if it was proscribed for inanimates. 15:42:17 oerjan: which pronoun, "min"? 15:51:15 i have no idea how one would generate nonsense from a variable length language model. how do you know how far back to read? 15:52:51 b_jonas: "hvis" 15:53:12 it might not be _entirely_ archaic, but definitely excessively formal. 15:53:47 hvis is an inanimate relative possessive pronoun? 15:54:01 oh wait 15:54:10 quintopia: i'm pretty sure those variable length models involved PhDs hth 15:54:44 oerjan: really? 15:55:10 ok it's a pretty sure hunch 15:55:11 i still feel like i should be able to understand it 15:55:18 NERD 15:55:45 *+hth 15:56:09 quintopia: i assume there's a cutoff formula or algorithm. 15:58:01 isn't oerjan an expert in knowing how far back to read? 16:00:05 argh 16:02:06 :D 16:03:53 quintopia: As far back as you have matching context in the model, with a probability based on the backoff weight of using a shorter context sometimes. 16:05:28 fizzie: how does the model generator decide what length contexts to include? 16:06:06 quintopia: https://sites.google.com/site/vesassiivola/publications/TASLP2007.pdf 16:08:41 told you there was a PhD. 16:09:48 Well, there's a more approachable overview in chapter 3 of https://sites.google.com/site/vesassiivola/publications/is2007less.pdf 16:12:35 nah that paper goves me a decent idea even if i dont know what kneser-ney smoothing is. pretty clever. 16:12:51 . o O ( tool assisted speed linguistic programming ) 16:13:11 oerjan: you may be reading a tad too fast 16:13:24 int-e: you're assuming i'm actually reading? 16:13:29 oerjan: yes! 16:13:49 oerjan: it's something that empirically, you are often doing 16:13:56 shocking 16:14:20 and I'm often making assumptions 16:14:27 are you sure? 16:14:32 so nobody should be surprised. 16:14:55 you cant be sure oerjan isnt just skimming, reading only a word here or there and making up the parts in between 16:14:56 oerjan: I'm sure, can you provide evidence to the contrary? 16:15:41 . o O ( is_mega_non_overlapping ) 16:15:51 quintopia: in fact the only part of that link i read was the picture captions at the end, and only to check i wasn't lying hth 16:16:23 (i checked afterwards, of course) 16:19:33 int-e: i'm sure TASPL would be a thing if fizzie and ais523 would just cooperate on it. 16:21:23 *LP 16:22:41 Fun fact I learned the other day: Subversion respects an environment variable called SVN_I_LOVE_CORRUPTED_WORKING_COPIES_SO_DISABLE_SLEEP_FOR_TIMESTAMPS, which you can set to "yes" to disable a wait it does in many places to ensure filesystem timestamps have changed. 16:23:26 sounds helpful. 16:23:40 `wisdom 16:23:41 california//California is pronounced "Caliphate-ornery-I-A" 16:23:47 wow it _is_ fast 16:24:23 fizzie: that's amazing 16:25:25 Apparently it's something the test suite uses to make the tests not take so long. 16:27:56 There's three other similarly named knobs; SVN_I_LOVE_CORRUPTED_WORKING_COPIES_SO_DISABLE_RELOCATE_VALIDATION, SVN_I_LIKE_LATENCY_SO_IGNORE_HTTPV2 and SVN_I_LOVE_PANGALACTIC_GARGLE_BLASTERS. 16:29:04 (If the last one is set and the file revision number is 42, it prints a humorous message as part of the commit message.) 16:30:55 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:41:49 <\oren\> wait, svn uses HTTP? 16:42:02 <\oren\> Why not FTP? 16:43:37 <\oren\> oh, it can use http or use its own protocol 16:54:46 <\oren\> by the way, they are apparently making progress toward shutting down the quickbooks dude 16:56:30 <\oren\> @meszages-louh 16:56:31 You don't have any messages 16:56:50 <\oren\> @metar cyyz 16:56:50 CYYZ 241500Z 18007KT 140V200 15SM FEW030 BKN250 25/17 A3016 RMK CU2CI3 SLP212 DENSITY ALT 1600FT 17:01:27 \oren\: the quickbooks dudes seem to have stopped attacking our wiki for now, at least. 17:02:09 (the new filter is catching several other kinds of spam, though.) 17:02:23 <\oren\> oerjan: I mean that the telephone company is shutting down their fraudulent help line 17:02:32 yeah i figured 17:02:52 but i assume they would have no reason to spam a phone number that isn't working. 17:03:05 <\oren\> right 17:05:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:06:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:11:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:17:32 -!- Akaibu has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:50:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:58:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:01:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:04:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:21:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:22:25 `? wegian 18:22:26 wegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:22:30 `? wegians 18:22:31 wegians? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:22:43 @massages-lud 18:22:43 oerjan said 3h 5m 49s ago: Ugh, inanimate whose is one of the little holes in English that, once you notice it, you can't close it <-- wiktionary says _formerly proscribed_ 18:25:29 `? nandwegian 18:25:30 nandwegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:28:18 One of my friends has been trying to get an FTP server to connect to irc 18:31:31 Taneb: via getting it to upload a file to Freenode that has IRC-like lines at the start? 18:31:50 IIRC many IRC servers have been modified to close the connection if they see anything that looks like it's part of the wrong protocol 18:31:55 I'm not sure of the specifics 18:32:26 He could set a nick but freenode makes you wait until a 001 before you can join a channel 18:32:27 due to things like the web-based worm we had a while back (basically it posted links to a web page, and if you visited that web page, you'd spam the link into other channels because it convinced your browser to connect to an IRC server) 18:32:56 that sounds like another sort of fix to the same problem 18:39:44 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:43:34 david_werecat.neutrino: points -4.74, score 26.58, rank 2/47 18:43:59 `unidecode 18:44:00 ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] 18:44:29 ooh, is someone jousting beind our back? :-D 18:48:47 david_werecat.neutrino: points -4.57, score 26.68, rank 2/47 (--) 18:49:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:50:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:51:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:59:08 -!- augur has joined. 18:59:13 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 19:00:13 <\oren\> argh 19:00:16 <\oren\> warning: '&&' within '||' 19:01:05 <\oren\> why not warning: '*' within '+' 19:01:27 <\oren\> warning: '-' within '==' 19:02:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:03:33 Where did the wegian wisdom go? 19:03:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:04:21 <\oren\> `? wegian 19:04:22 wegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:04:26 <\oren\> `? norwegian 19:04:27 norwegian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:04:30 <\oren\> `? norway 19:04:30 Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 19:04:46 ifthenwegian? 19:05:01 <\oren\> `? warning 19:05:01 warning? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:05:31 `` grep wegian wisdom/* 19:05:37 grep: wisdom/¯\_(ツ)_: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/icbm: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/fternooner:fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. \ wisdom/gasp 19:05:53 ...dammit 19:06:06 `` grep wegian -r wisdom 19:06:07 wisdom/gaspasjo:gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days \ wisdom/fternooner:fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. \ wisdom/møøse:Møøse is Norwegian for moss. \ wisdom/lexer:lexer is a maximally Norwegian painter. Its squares 19:06:30 `` grep wegian -r wisdom > temp/wegians 19:06:30 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: temp/wegians: No such file or directory 19:06:39 `` grep wegian -r wisdom > shr/wegians 19:06:39 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: shr/wegians: No such file or directory 19:06:43 `ls 19:06:44 advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 19:06:46 <\oren\> `learn Warnings indicate whn you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. 19:06:48 Learned 'warning': Warnings indicate whn you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. 19:06:58 <\oren\> `learn Warnings indicate when you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. 19:06:58 `` grep wegian -r wisdom > tmp/wegians 19:07:00 No output. 19:07:02 Relearned 'warning': Warnings indicate when you are doing something dangerous, like using operator precedence. 19:07:10 `url tmp/wegians 19:07:10 File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository. 19:07:23 Crap... 19:07:26 `url 19:07:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:07:31 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: use paste 19:07:37 \oren\: ty 19:07:52 `` grep wegian -r wisdom | paste 19:07:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.2574 19:09:14 `learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). 19:09:16 Learned 'wegian': A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). 19:09:48 shachaf: -_- 19:09:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Soletur1970 * New user account 19:11:49 david_werecat.neutrino: points 0.67, score 32.21, rank 2/47 (--) 19:11:50 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:Soletur1970]] with an expiry time of 2 decades, 4 years, 4 hours, 19 minutes and 12 seconds (account creation disabled): Quickbooks spammer 19:12:50 -!- Roxxik has joined. 19:13:14 <\oren\> `relcome Roxxik 19:13:15 ​Roxxik: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 19:16:36 I just discovered Google News 19:16:42 How do I tell it to never give me Fox? 19:17:19 Oh 19:17:21 It's impossible 19:17:23 -_- 19:17:59 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: try using a custom adblock to remove the links 19:21:03 <\oren\> I also recommend removing the wall street journal (paywall), breitbart and the new york observer (propaganda), vox and the huffington post (propaganda), 19:21:05 Oh, wait, no it isn't 19:21:07 It's possible now 19:21:33 OK 19:22:10 Ah, you can adjust frequencies 19:22:14 But you can't block Fox entirely 19:22:19 Just set it to "rarely" 19:22:45 <\oren\> Well I usually read 19:22:58 <\oren\> nothin 19:22:59 \oren\: What are the good news sources? 19:23:16 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: At this point, twitter and reddit, probably 19:23:40 ...yeah, probably 19:23:48 Hackernews? 19:23:52 Reddit: The only news site where you can block bullshit 19:24:28 I guess I'll add the BBC 19:25:21 <\oren\> Oh I also read the Register 19:25:40 <\oren\> but that's only tech news 19:26:03 -!- bojidar_bg has joined. 19:27:10 Oh, got to block the Christian Science Monitor 19:27:54 Just read http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather -- I think this is (easy, really easily) "doable" in JavaScript via Object.create and prototypes. Basically, in JS each Object has a prototype, and if it lacks a property, it would lookup the prototype. (Or am I missing something?) 19:28:34 Oh, North Korea launched an ICBM 19:28:40 Landed in the Sea of Japan 19:30:22 Italy had an earthquake with at least 120 dead 19:33:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:49:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:50:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:59:04 david_werecat.neutrino: points 5.79, score 37.75, rank 2/47 (--) 19:59:17 lel 19:59:28 welcome back david catt 20:00:52 beating kiseki is now the easiest way to get to the top of the chart 20:02:14 -!- Roxxik has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:08:43 -!- david_werecat has joined. 20:09:27 nice job 20:10:07 thanks, although I'm not sure how much of that score is because of kiseki... 20:10:49 almost all of it 20:11:01 -!- bojidar_bg has left ("Uh!"). 20:12:23 and if lymia is feeling flippant, they can just rerun the program with neutrino included and get back the same score they had to begin with 20:14:27 True. 20:15:13 Before kiseki it had been a while since a program beat every other program. The last time I remember that happening was a couple of years ago. 20:16:17 space_hotel did once, but not on every tape length and polarity 20:16:33 anyway, i think you have now qualified as the new deewiant. 20:16:47 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49631&oldid=49163 * Mychal * (+413) Added Io implementation 20:19:34 Due to relatively small programs? 20:22:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:30 !ztest beatskiseki (>[+]+)*-1 20:34:30 david_werecat.beatskiseki: points -19.69, score 10.75, rank 28/47 20:35:38 woops 20:35:45 !ztest beatskiseki >+(>[+])*-1 20:35:46 david_werecat.beatskiseki: points -17.19, score 16.50, rank 13/47 20:42:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:02:03 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 21:03:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:08:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 21:10:40 -!- Caesura has joined. 21:16:31 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 21:18:48 -!- jaboja has joined. 21:18:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:21:52 !ztest neutrino >(+)*15(>--)*3(>[>>>((>[-[++[(+)*6[-][+]+>+{}]]]+)%-1)*-1])*16(>[(-)*14[+][-]])*8>(-)*127([[-][+]])*-1 21:21:52 david_werecat.neutrino: points 2.43, score 30.72, rank 2/47 (--) 21:23:24 -!- david_werecat has left. 21:29:44 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:42:33 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:48:51 Lymia: Yeah, I have a feeling BF Joust activity is too sporadic for the monthly code-secret-until-over competition idea to work super well. 21:50:44 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:52:21 "IIRC many IRC servers have been modified to close the connection if they see anything that looks like it's part of the wrong protocol" => yes, but more importantly, many irc servers (but not the one on freenode) require you to pong a ping whose body has a random string before you can do anything, to stop blind attacks that don't read what the serv 21:52:21 er says. 21:54:24 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:14:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:23:07 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:24:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:37 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:36:50 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 22:54:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:04:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:20:51 -!- boily has joined. 23:22:41 * boily pokes \oren\ in the Torontonian bits 23:24:20 coily! 23:24:54 why did rush name a song after an aeroport? 23:25:03 quintopia! because YYZ! 23:25:19 . o O ( why yyz, au fait? ) 23:25:34 oops. 23:25:37 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:26:33 what do? 23:27:05 thinking about eating. 23:27:12 . o O ( I should be eating. ) 23:27:53 oh 23:28:03 you never chat while you eat 23:28:15 why bother logging on? 23:29:47 <\oren\> I'm always logged on 23:29:54 <\oren\> essentially. 23:30:04 I like seeing what's happening :) 23:31:01 david_werecat uploaded some new entries. thats all. 23:31:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:32:02 the happening doesn't happen much, eh? 23:32:07 @metar KATL 23:32:08 KATL 242152Z 14003KT 10SM FEW008 SCT110 BKN200 BKN250 26/23 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP223 T02560228 \$ 23:32:11 @metar CYUL 23:32:11 CYUL 242200Z 22009G21KT 30SM FEW180 SCT240 28/18 A3003 RMK AC1CI3 SLP171 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 23:32:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:32:31 it was cloudy 23:33:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:33:28 a bit rainy maybe also 23:33:28 hmm, Call of CYUL 23:33:56 (I keep thinking that) 23:33:58 @metar LOWI 23:33:59 LOWI 242220Z AUTO 24003KT 210V270 9999 NCD 17/14 Q1024 23:35:58 int-ello. call of cyul? 23:36:45 nofroily. hintopia. 23:36:56 CYUL is always swimming but it always swims Left 23:37:54 <\oren\> @metar CYYB 23:37:54 CYYB 242200Z 17006KT 15SM -SHRA SCT044 OVC060 21/17 A2995 RMK SC3SC5 CVCTV CLD EMBD SLP142 DENSITY ALT 2200FT 23:38:21 <\oren\> Why is there never much temperature difference between here and north bay 23:38:44 <\oren\> north bay is like 7 hours driving north from here 23:38:56 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ 23:38:57 CYYZ 242200Z 20012G18KT 15SM FEW130 SCT150 BKN220 29/14 A3001 RMK AC1AC2CI3 SLP163 DENSITY ALT 2100FT 23:39:30 <\oren\> oh great today it's actually colder in Toronto. I don't understand waether 23:40:28 the whole of Ontario can be reduced to a single point hth 23:40:40 waether 23:40:51 wa(e)t(h)er 23:42:55 <\oren\> I dOnt undRstand weTR 23:43:20 <\oren\> or should that be weDR 23:43:35 <\oren\> probly 23:45:28 <\oren\> ｳｴｻﾞｰ 23:45:36 \oren\: how do you spell "core" 23:46:06 <\oren\> cor 23:46:23 @metar KOAK 23:46:24 KOAK 242153Z 29012KT 10SM FEW010 20/13 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP173 T02000128 23:46:33 @metar ENVA 23:46:33 ENVA 242220Z 13006KT 9999 VCSH SCT045 BKN065 12/12 Q1017 RMK WIND 670FT 17007KT 23:46:49 autumn is a-coming 23:47:16 <\oren\> otM iz a cumiG 23:47:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:48:40 <\oren\> theoretically, one could mark letters with thingies on top of them but I don't knwo how to type those thingies 23:48:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:48:59 <\oren\> so my proposal uses capital letters, klingon-style 23:49:47 *tlhIngan 23:50:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:50:27 You know what? 23:50:40 I'm sick of confusion around square root 23:50:58 From now on, there is no such thing as "the square root" of a number (or really any nth root) 23:51:11 There are only numbers which are "a square root" of it 23:51:59 `` grep wegian -r wisdom > temp/wegians <-- we have | paste for this hth 23:52:09 If you just want the principle root, you have to specify that, but you also have to define what differentiates between a principle and nonprinciple root 23:52:14 oerjan: I was told 23:52:19 oerjan: And I did 23:52:24 OKAY 23:52:33 oerjan: \oren\ told me 23:52:56 hppavilion[1]: "the square root" is positive by definition hth 23:53:07 oerjan: sqrt(-1) 23:53:19 i is "the" square root of -1 23:53:27 *sigh* 23:53:37 hppavilion[1]: itym principal hth 23:53:45 quintopia: ityr 23:54:21 it's the principal of the thing. 23:55:01 (In my Algebra II class last year, when finding the zeros of a quadratic we used any root, but she also said that the equation y = sqrt(x) is a function because only the positive part of the results are true; though, to be fair, we did at least use ± on the former) 23:56:20 traditionally the principal root is the one with smallest argument 23:56:52 quintopia: smallest argument? 23:57:18 Wait, is that mathspeak or just "the one that the least people complain about"? 23:57:37 mathspeak hth 23:57:52 it's the angle of a complex number, in radians 23:58:03 Ah 23:58:31 ais523: Maybe we should require that new users make themselves a userpage, and that an administrator read it and think "yeah, looks pretty legit" before approving them 23:58:59 hppavilion[1]: that doesn't work because there's been a lot of spammers that _do_ make their own userpages 23:59:05 (auto-approval happens after a week or so, admins can disapprove before then) 23:59:29 presumably because other wikis have such a policy, or something. 23:59:39 oerjan: They'll probably look pretty formulaic and 2^n-assed (for natural n >=2) ```