00:01:12 nofrily. 00:02:23 nofrily? 00:02:48 (this is a repetition from previous time when you DIDN'T NOTICE hth) 00:02:57 1015241 00:03:03 <_<... >_>'... 00:03:07 hppavellon[1]. 00:03:14 ahoily 00:03:28 darn i shouldn't have cheated so fast, i probably could have guessed it was baltic with some thought. 00:03:51 I have absolutely no fungotting idea where nofrily could be coming where from. 00:03:59 EXCELLENT 00:04:02 fizzie: fizziello. FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 00:04:07 (T) 00:04:24 I'm godelling slang 00:04:39 `? godelling 00:04:40 godelling? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:04:41 1015241 is 69 and 420, in no particular order 00:04:58 (being the product of the 69th and 420th primes, though I may be doing something wrong as of yet) 00:05:30 oerjan: maybe some random language spoken in Siberia? 00:05:31 No, I think it works 00:05:40 69th and 420th, with index at 0 00:05:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:55 boily: wrong continent hth 00:06:11 also, it's transliterated, i guess 00:06:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:06:58 If you wish to specifically refer to 69 followed by 420, you use 2953336069, and for 420 followed by 69 you use 354319109 00:07:25 (are there codes for other drugs yet?) 00:07:42 hppavilion[1]: those are big numbers. you should do an MTF then RLE to compress them. 00:07:56 oerjan: Burmese? 00:08:04 boily: Never heard of MTF, or at least I can't think of it 00:08:09 What is it? 00:08:13 boily: nope 00:08:34 (that's still the same continent afaiac hth 00:08:36 ) 00:09:08 ... 00:09:35 -!- ocharles has joined. 00:10:24 the "-fr-" bit is throwing me for a loop... 00:10:58 Maldivian? 00:12:59 Damn, are there any numbers for drugs other than pot? 00:13:03 Wait, I already asked 00:13:04 -!- dingbat has joined. 00:13:47 hppavilion[1]: there is the 2C family, but it's alphanumeric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C_(psychedelics) 00:14:15 boily: I'll just treat it as ASCII in that case 00:15:56 boily: on checking, it seems to be a dead language. it's the last descendant of one you might consider classical. 00:16:57 not maldivian, anyway 00:17:03 -!- zgrep has joined. 00:17:03 Pali? 00:17:41 ...you're still in asia despite my best efforts to tell you that's wrong :P 00:17:51 oops >_>' 00:20:08 Cretan? Minoan? 00:20:16 nope, nope 00:20:56 (do we know any words from those? i don't know.) 00:21:37 next hint: although dead, it's still used by some 00:21:55 Old Church Slavonic? 00:22:03 Aramaic? 00:22:03 (as i implied, i didn't actually know it was dead until right now) 00:22:08 no, no 00:22:22 I'm trying to remember "classical" languages. 00:22:43 well "classical". it depends on your definition i guess. 00:23:17 I liberally classicaly classify languages usually... 00:23:55 Manx? Cornish? 00:24:21 no, no. more classical than that, i think. 00:25:19 next hint: you can blame the muslims for it dying. 00:25:23 Latin and lesser Latin? 00:25:31 pikhq: nope 00:25:54 pikhelloq. 00:26:09 Salboiliton 00:26:23 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:26:37 oh fungot. two riddhelloes at the same time. 00:26:57 i think pikhq's one isn't too hard. 00:27:17 oerjan: Coptic? 00:27:22 *DING* 00:27:40 that was a good one. 00:28:13 pikhq: Portuguese? 00:28:41 * oerjan guessed pikhq's correctly. 00:28:50 I was doing weirdo Esperanto, personally. 00:29:44 oerjan: Coptic is only mostly dead -- it's still used liturgically. 00:29:46 I forgot most of Esperanto's suffixes. are -n adverbs? 00:30:48 -n is the accusative suffix. 00:31:36 And apparently the accusative is used in excalamtions, such as "Saluton". 00:31:46 * oerjan learns that chebyshev's first name, pafnuty, is originally coptic. 00:32:43 pikhq: i'm pretty sure "dead" does not usually exclude that for languages. 00:33:21 Yeah... Well, it depends. 00:33:35 Coptic is as "dead" as Latin is, and some might call Latin a dead language. 00:34:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:34:59 * oerjan also learns that this is one of the cases where -ev is pronounced -of. 00:35:37 Latin is post-re-de-undead. 00:37:16 boily: btw iirc aramaic isn't quite dead, although it's not doing well in the current war zone down there. 00:37:36 they come in ones and twosles, but if they so choozles, before your eyes you'll see hem multiply 00:38:23 them 00:38:25 i think shachaf thinks he's found my secret weakness or something. 00:38:55 either that, or he's got it on his brain himself. 00:39:02 mostly the latter 00:39:14 * boily is utterly confused by the sudden turn in conversation 00:39:15 a bit of the former maybe, but one can only expect diminishing returns there 00:39:45 Yeah, Aramaic is classed as endangered, but not extinct. 00:40:37 wait, the talmud is mostly in aramaic? 00:41:02 boily: itym confusel hth 00:41:56 boily: unconfusel hth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLnADKgurvc 00:43:38 oerjan: Yes. It's worth remembering that the Talmud is a large body of writing from various rabbis written post-70CE. 00:46:23 shachaf: i think i sniped myself with that link hth 00:47:17 I like the internal rhyme in "because they guzzle up the things you prize" 00:47:21 Well, semi-rhyme. 00:47:35 Does that sort of thing have a name? Are there other instances of it? 00:47:49 oerjan: I am... partially unconfuselled? 00:48:39 shachaf: half rhymes are a thing. 00:48:55 I like thr feel of it. 00:49:06 the 00:49:48 shachaf: That would probably be alliteration, not rhyme. 00:50:38 "because" and "guz" seem to rhyme. 00:50:45 Ah, that. Yes. 00:50:50 That's a semi-rhyme. 00:51:11 (that's the actual term for it) 00:51:18 Alliteration is scow. 00:51:25 Well, it's fine. 00:51:28 But people make too much of it. 01:17:03 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 01:20:38 `? oerjan 01:20:39 Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:22:39 `slwd oerjan//s/Crocker/&, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles./ 01:22:41 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles 01:22:52 oops 01:22:54 `? oerjan 01:22:55 Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles.. He sometimes 01:23:00 double oops 01:23:02 `revert 01:23:07 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:25:44 `relcome Robdgreat 01:25:45 Robdgreat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:26:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:26:14 allo 01:26:22 Robdgreat: long time no see 01:26:25 `` sed -i 's/oeverlord/œverlord/' wisdom/oerjan 01:26:27 No output. 01:26:29 boily: please fix up the oerjan wisdom entry twh 01:26:39 shachaf: what were you aiming for? 01:26:41 `icode œ 01:26:42 [U+0153 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE OE] 01:26:51 oerjan: indeed. How's everything? 01:27:02 spammy 01:27:13 Robdgreat: allo. French? 01:27:52 no no 01:27:56 murcan :) 01:28:07 `` sed -i 's/\.\././' wisdom/oerjan 01:28:09 No output. 01:28:26 oerjan: what do you "He sometimes"? 01:28:52 boily: um you seem to be looking at the pre-reverted version 01:28:55 `? oerjan 01:28:55 Your mysterious pronounced zombie œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:29:37 all is fine now then. 01:30:02 i think shachaf perceived some crampiness. 01:30:25 i think oerjan perceived some crankiness 01:34:03 `? boily 01:34:03 "Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 01:34:19 still shorter :P 01:37:10 `slwd oerjan/s/pronounced zombie/reanimate/ 01:37:10 usage: sled file//script 01:37:16 `slwd oerjan//s/pronounced zombie/reanimate/ 01:37:18 wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious reanimate œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:37:47 word merging through puns 01:40:24 `? Phantom__Hoover 01:40:24 Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. 01:40:26 `? Phantom_Hoover 01:40:26 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. 01:45:42 `? hat 01:45:43 hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo 01:53:36 `? Robdgreat 01:53:37 Robdgreat ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:54:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BARBARIAN CHICKEN). 01:57:59 `? fungot 01:58:00 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 02:00:49 is this all that happens in here anymore? 02:01:42 nah, sometimes people discuss Magic the Gathering 02:02:00 I see 02:02:20 * oerjan slightly ironic 02:02:48 only slightly 02:07:23 i think the more energetic newbies aren't in at the moment. 02:10:04 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:10:29 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:11:51 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:13:51 On occasion esolangs also get talked about. 02:14:06 While we're often off topic, we all *are* genuinely interested in them. 02:14:35 Also, this will probably please you: fungot is written in Befunge. 02:14:53 * pikhq mutters, fungot is dead 02:15:04 eek 02:19:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:26:21 "Douchey Douches Douche Douchily" -- Ernest Hemingway, July 3, 1961 02:28:18 -!- dingbat has joined. 02:28:27 -!- ocharles has joined. 02:28:33 -!- zgrep has joined. 02:35:41 hppavilion[1], man you do say some shit sometimes 02:35:54 Phantom__Hoover: I do 02:36:10 keep it up though, if it wasn't for you nobody would ever talk about esolangs 02:44:41 . o O ( i didn't know Ernest Hemingway made esolangs ) 02:45:04 learn something new every day 03:01:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:05:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:06:21 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:08:02 <\oren\> HA! The Imperial Japanese invaded my Iranian Communist Authority through India, but I encircled them and wiped out 50 divisions at once 03:08:30 and all that in canada? 03:09:04 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49669&oldid=49668 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+173) 03:09:27 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49670&oldid=49669 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+17) 03:10:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:13:29 <\oren\> Hey, the british are here, to retake the Raj through Kuwait 03:13:53 <\oren\> pip pip comrades 03:16:34 <\oren\> Oh, look! I now own Jordan, Syria, and Israel 03:16:52 -!- Caesura has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:24:38 <\oren\> Advancing into the Sinai 03:31:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:32:52 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:38:29 -!- Melvar` has joined. 03:41:06 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:57:52 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:58:18 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 03:58:36 The concept of choosing one's sexual orientation is mathematically absurd 03:58:51 ? 03:59:13 Simple game theory tells us that, assuming your choice of orientation does not affect anyone else's, the optimal strategy is /clearly/ to choose bisexuality 04:00:20 Well, I want to choose asexuality. 04:00:27 Except that people react poorly to it, and as such one should be heterosexual. 04:00:31 And even if it does affect others' choices, unless it specifically affects your contemporaries to choose straight or asexual, you still benefit 04:00:43 zzo38: That would be nice too 04:01:09 pikhq: But no one can tell your orientation unless they are informed- sex as a game has imperfect information 04:02:17 *If* you would not be at risk of significant discrimination for being not-heterosexual, that would be the case. 04:02:43 And since the best move for /everyone/ is to choose bisexuality (as, assuming everyone plays optimally, it doubles your dating pool, and under no circumstances does your dating pool decrease), there would be no reason to discriminate against bisexuals because most other people are bisexual too 04:03:03 If people as a whole were game theoretically optimal, yes. 04:03:55 pikhq: Yes, and people tend to be fairly close to optimal for obvious choices such as this 04:04:11 And yet, it's not the case. 04:04:26 Nor would it make any sense for it to be the case from an evolutionary standpoint. 04:04:34 "do you want $10 or $20, both given to you right now with no differences other than amount?" 04:04:35 (mind, that is not a standpoint many people take!) 04:04:37 pikhq: Well, yes, there's that 04:05:07 s/\$/¤/ 04:06:03 I think some amount of the *idea* that one chooses one's sexual orientation comes from certain individuals who are homosexual or bisexual and feel that it's wrong, and then force themselves into heterosexual acts and then loudly proclaim that they chose to be straight. 04:06:39 Ah, yes 04:06:45 I've never heard that though 04:06:49 But, regardless. I'm quite certain it's the case hardly anyone had a time they *decided* to be heterosexual, jusst a time they realized it. 04:07:00 But if I could choose, I definitely 100% would've chosen to be bi 04:07:24 You've never heard people say they chose to be heterosexual? 04:07:33 pikhq: I honestly have never heard that 04:07:33 You do not listen to many religious fundamentalists then. 04:07:38 This is probably for the best. 04:08:03 (and, keep in mind, gays probably have better sex than straight people- sex is never a game with perfect information, but the information is a /lot/ better when you've both had a penis (or vagina) for your entire life) 04:08:36 *cough* there exist trans people *cough* 04:08:38 :P 04:09:08 I think there is still decision what you want though, such as only opposite or don't sex (therefore, I want don't sex). 04:09:18 pikhq: For the purposes of analysis, we assume that trans people are the gender they identify as- trans men are just men, trans women are just women 04:09:31 (Or something more strange than sexual orientation, in some cases, possibly???) 04:09:48 hppavilion[1]: A reasonable analysis. This does, however, leave some men with vaginas and some women with phallusses. 04:10:01 (though, yes, they are definitely in the minority) 04:10:35 zzo38: To some extent, yes, conscious choices can impact your desires and behaviors. 04:10:42 zzo38: Yes, asexual is nice too because it decreases distractions and prevents sexual frustration (I assume; I've always just assumed asexuals don't have any form of frustration from never having sex, that they just don't feel any inclination to) 04:11:01 As it turns out, human brains are complex and this includes human brains' sexual behavior. 04:11:31 pikhq: I suppose that there are trans women who have not undergone surgery... I think it's the majority of trans people, actually. 04:11:43 I guess we just drop them from the equation for now? 04:11:53 hppavilion[1]: It is the majority of trans women, yes. 04:12:07 Or, at least, trans people are negligible as they make up <1% of the population 04:12:24 And I think they still benefit from choosing to be bi, it's just that straight sex is better for them 04:12:45 (The only game-sex with perfect information is, of course, masturbation) 04:13:23 hppavilion[1]: Modulo the fact that trans people's sexual responses can be quite different from a cis person's, even with the same genitalia in both cases. 04:13:28 Because psychology. 04:13:32 Ah, yes 04:13:39 Forgot about that too 04:13:56 Hormones can also be relevant. 04:14:06 But anyways! 04:14:45 The general point that there can be factors in sexual orientation that would influence your decision making, resulting in *very* different choices if it were in fact a choice, is quite valid. 04:14:46 Yes! 04:14:57 Yes 04:15:27 pikhq: Yes, OK 04:15:41 But since people can't know your orientation unless they obtain information- which in theory should be concealable- you can evade most of those issues by being bi but being a little more discreet about gay sex 04:16:00 (a bi person having sex with someone of the same gender is still considered "gay sex", right?) 04:16:05 hppavilion[1]: And with gay people being more discreet about the straight sex. 04:16:17 I say so, at least. 04:16:25 pikhq: Yes, but gays at least tend to be more accepting 04:16:36 Though "biphobia" is actually a thing... 04:16:39 Oddly enough there can be serious biphobia in some parts of the gay community. 04:16:42 For some reason... 04:16:48 pikhq: Yeah 04:16:54 Mostly from people who assert that you're not bi, you're just in the closet. 04:17:11 My dad's boyfriend is a gay man that is homophobic, but only towards lesbians... 04:17:24 :( 04:17:28 Don't ask how it works, I don't know 04:19:57 Sounds confusing but not unheard of. 04:20:09 ...what the fuck is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_hair_texture 04:20:24 That is the most OR bullshit I have ever read 04:20:34 OR? 04:22:34 pikhq: "Original Research" 04:23:03 It looks like someone didn't get a job, decided it was because they had curly hair, ranted about it, and made it into a wikipedia page 04:23:37 Ah. I will say, the phenomenon discussed there *is* a real thing. But it's kinda subtle, and is really more a particular manifestation of racism than anything else. 04:23:45 ... And this article is crap at discussing it. 04:25:09 My guess is some undergrad African-American studies student realized there wasn't a Wikipedia article about it and turned a class assignment into it. 04:28:12 Yep 04:28:27 pikhq: A bad class assignment at that, but they probably got an A 04:28:39 *nod* 04:28:56 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:34:53 pikhq: How exactly does the idea of "ablism" work? 04:37:15 divisaur 04:38:20 hppavilion[1]: "ableism" is literally discrimination against those with disabilities. 04:38:49 pikhq: Yeah 04:38:54 And how does that count as injustice? 04:39:16 I mean, you are literally disabled 04:39:34 It goes broader than simply failing to account for accessibility. 04:40:03 Even if the job likely won't involve a lot of walking, someone with working legs is probably a better hire than someone who's paraplegic 04:40:09 You would be surprised how often e.g. a deaf person is treated as a non-person. 04:43:15 @metar CUIL 04:43:16 No result. 04:43:36 darn 04:46:53 Remember, compulsory sterilization has happened as late as *2010*. 04:47:04 In the US. 04:48:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:31.184.238.61]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 04:52:12 pikhq: Ah, yes 04:58:50 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 05:51:52 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:52:16 Hm, is it possible to change what my IP directs to in a geoip database? 05:53:27 Because I want the internet to think I live in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace 05:55:45 no, there isn't: http://fusion.net/story/287592/internet-mapping-glitch-kansas-farm/ 05:57:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: No route to host). 06:28:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:50:39 -!- dingbat has joined. 07:11:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:54:57 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:57:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:02:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:05:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:09:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 08:45:52 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:13:22 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:13:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:14:58 -!- atehwa has joined. 11:33:55 -!- boily has joined. 11:38:05 `wisdom 11:38:06 but//But is a Trintercal operator. 12:28:11 So in fantasy fiction, nobility ranks come in two suits: the Good ranks are named prince, duke, earl, whereas the Evil ranks are named king, count, baron. 12:29:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RIVERSIDE CHICKEN). 12:30:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:35:21 `wisdom 12:35:22 orin//orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. 12:36:04 b_jonas: In which fantasy fiction? 12:36:40 There definitely are good kings in some fantasy books 12:43:45 Sometimes there are evil princes that murder good kings. 12:45:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 12:46:18 Lord of the Rings had both good and bad kings 12:49:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:50:42 I assume you mean the entire verse, not just the books with that title. 12:59:48 -!- fungot has joined. 13:02:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:03:10 I meant the books 13:11:47 Then I can't think of very many evil kings. I don't think Sauron counts as a king, Denethor certainly doesn't, and Théoden wasn't really "evil" even before getting better. 13:19:32 * Robdgreat pulls the plug 13:19:37 You have no power here! 13:20:55 In retrospect, I guess the Witch-King of Angmar counts, though. 13:21:40 fizzie: How about the Witch-king of Angmar? 13:22:05 That's what I *just* said. 13:22:14 Oh, I didn't read that line before I wrote mine 13:24:16 Yeah, doesn't work too well for the Lord of the Ring, which has elf Lords/Ladies and human ruling stewards instead of elf kings/queens. King Ar-Pharazôn of Númenor could count as an Evil king thouhg. 13:26:06 FreeFull: the arch-example (which might have popularized this a bit) is Dune, which plays duke Leto Atreides against baron Vladimir Harkonnen. 13:27:13 Tvtrope's take on the nobility titles is (TVTROPES WARNING) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AristocratsAreEvil 13:32:08 Note though that Galadriel considered turning from an ordinary elf Lady to a beautiful and terrible Queen. 13:33:01 I'm not sure what determines the kingliness/queenliness of elves, anyway. Thingol was the king of Doriath and Thranduil the king of the woodland elves, but Celeborn, Galadriel and Elrond are all nondescript Lords and Ladies of their places. 13:33:23 Thingol and Thranduil weren't all that evil, though AIUI the latter was a bit of a dick. 13:36:58 And Ingwë, Fingon and Olwë were somehow the kings of Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri, respectively. So it doesn't really seem to depend on having a proper sort of kingdom to run. 13:39:27 Maybe some elves were like "Do we want to have a monarchy" and some said "Sure", and the others "Nah" 13:40:32 Finland was supposed to have a king once, but that never went anywhere -- now we just read news about the Swedish royalty instead. 13:40:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Finland_(1918) 13:41:48 Poland hasn't had a monarchy in a while now 13:43:14 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:43:46 The last monarch stopped ruling in 1815 13:44:03 And that was just a Duke, not a King 13:44:12 Last king stopped in 1795 13:44:49 Because of the Third Partition of Poland 13:47:16 Man, Poland has had it rough 14:03:30 -!- kaoD has joined. 14:03:42 -!- kaoD has quit (Changing host). 14:03:42 -!- kaoD has joined. 14:03:42 -!- kaoD has quit (Changing host). 14:03:42 -!- kaoD has joined. 14:06:24 kaoD.test: points -25.19, score 12.50, rank 24/47 14:08:05 kaoD.test: points -30.76, score 6.56, rank 47/47 (-23) 14:08:26 kaoD.test: points -25.19, score 10.71, rank 45/47 (+2) 14:16:15 `bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=tree-percussions 14:16:20 bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=tree-percussions: b_jonas 14:21:26 [wiki] [[Churro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49671&oldid=43972 * Martin Ender * (+65) add categories 14:36:21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions 14:38:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:42:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:43:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:00:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:16:17 -!- augur has joined. 15:20:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:21:16 `? strt 15:21:17 strt? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:41:48 -!- gamemanj has joined. 15:41:52 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:51:38 `? 4rn4 15:51:39 4rn4? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:52:02 `learn The 4rn4 has two false goals. 15:52:04 Learned '4rn4': The 4rn4 has two false goals. 15:52:09 no wait 15:52:13 `unlearn 4rn4 15:52:14 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unlearn: not found 15:52:17 `forget 4rn4 15:52:19 Forget what? 15:52:30 `learn The 4RN4 has two false goals. 15:52:32 Learned '4rn4': The 4RN4 has two false goals. 15:52:37 better 15:57:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:01:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:13:23 You can just `learn without `forgetting, and then it'll relearn. 16:16:03 fizzie: yes, I was just sort of stupid there 16:16:21 I thought it would have to use a different filename for 4RN4, but obviously no 16:27:21 <\oren\> Hmm, I'm looking at the skin color emojis in samsung's new font 16:27:29 <\oren\> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrBBDfbWYAA5z93.jpg 16:28:23 <\oren\> It's interesting that the default is brown haired european, 1-2 is pale asian, and 3 appears to be gyaru. 16:35:24 <\oren\> Also, there's a lot of drama apparently because the new iOS font shows 🔫 as a water gun instead of a real gun. 16:38:03 <\oren\> Actually, having skin tone 3 be gyaru helps a lot because we can use [Emoji Modifier Fitzpatrick Type-3][Man] as Trump. 16:40:11 <\oren\> There's a haircut emoji but it's a pity there's no "bad haircut" emoji 16:43:26 I heard of the water gun thing. 16:45:34 I got the impression the main concern was that you think you're sending fun water gun pictures and your friends think you're pointing a real gun at them. 16:47:16 there is already a fun discrepancy with REMINDER RIBBON 16:52:27 <\oren\> I have suggested that unicode encode a water gun emoji in the next round 16:55:31 <\oren\> Jafet: oh, right, some are pink and some are yellow iirc 16:56:57 <\oren\> I have no idea what yellow ribbon means however 17:01:53 one day someone will make a "create a face app", and it won't have any face rendering code 17:02:01 It'll just call the text renderer 17:03:24 <\oren\> OH god no why no 17:03:52 text renderers are becoming complicated enough that you could get away with doing that nowadays 17:04:08 you'd just need a very good font 17:06:14 i am confused by thw last row 17:06:22 why are there 6 fingers? 17:08:13 <\oren\> myname: OH GOD WHAT I CANT WHY DID YOU TELL ME 17:09:37 why are there so many emoji characters, though... 17:10:11 WHy not? 17:10:31 <\oren\> gamemanj: nowadays if more than one cell phone maker has it, they generally will encode it 17:11:39 <\oren\> originally, it was because multiple Japanese cellphone makers had filled in the gaps in Shift-JIS with emoji. 17:11:40 lambdabot: !help 17:12:17 lambdabot: Please leave „oerjan“ a Message stating „Thank You very much Dude, that was a quite helpful Message indeed.“ 17:12:32 Can someone instruct me to achieve that, please? 17:12:33 the unicode consortium aims to encode all writing systems used in human communication 17:12:41 with @tell 17:12:44 Thanks 17:12:55 you @tell user message 17:13:00 @tell oerjan Thank You very much Dude, that was a quite helpful Message indeed! 17:13:00 Consider it noted. 17:13:03 o/ 17:13:05 Thanks. ☺ 17:13:07 Win. 17:13:15 I would like to note that Signwriting is now encoded as unicode, and it needs horribly complicated text shaping algorithms to actually render, because you have to combine lots of modifiers to get a glyph, and there's way too many possibilities to pre-render. It's among the hardest to render scripts encoded in unicode. 17:14:43 <\oren\> I wor one intend only to add emoji once the terminal software makers decide how to render them 17:15:12 Terminal software makers have no idea. I mean, in theory you could treat them as 16x16 charcells, but then there's the combining chars and modifiers. 17:15:16 I don't know why they even chose to encode it as characters, rather than a domain-specific non-character-based language like five-staff musical notation or 2d maths notation. 17:15:56 Terminals and emoji just don't work 17:16:01 <\oren\> I mean, right now on most terminals, ☁️ is a half-width character, which doesn't work 17:16:02 (Am I being crazy here?) 17:16:15 presumably you can now add combining marks to hand signs 17:16:24 b_jonas: Not really, but it's "against the goal of Unicode" not to encode everything 17:16:35 I bet there is a way to encode five-staff musical notation in Unicode 17:16:38 <\oren\> But the newest version of unicode made emoji fullwidth. 17:17:06 gamemanj: I don't think that's how it works. They only want to encode characters, not formatting. 17:17:22 <\oren\> But I need to wait for terminal software to catch up 17:17:38 Yah, Things need Time to evolve. 17:17:45 <\oren\> (and, presumably, editors and such) 17:18:31 * APic switched back from „mosh“ to „ssh“ because my „glibc“ cannot correctly parse „😸“ yet. 17:18:54 <\oren\> Also, I don't intend to ever have colors in my font 17:19:03 With good old SSH i only see a Rectangle, but under „mosh“, i see just nothing at all, a blank Space, which is much worse for me. 17:19:34 (Term: rxvt-unicode, for the Record) 17:19:36 <\oren\> I'm using this through two tmuxes and ssh, and I see a fullwidth cat 17:19:47 That is nice. ☺ 17:19:49 <\oren\> but the cat is covering up the und quote 17:19:57 <\oren\> s/und/end/ 17:20:00 b_jonas: They do encode formatting already, in a way. 17:20:01 That is not that good. 17:20:05 b_jonas: U+000A 17:20:32 b_jonas: Also RTL/LTR overrides 17:20:38 <\oren\> gamemanj: there are a lot of different space and endline variants 17:20:53 Exactly 17:21:03 Just goes to show that they were encoding formatting from the start 17:21:04 <\oren\> ‌‍‎ 17:21:08 I mean, look at the text we have in like our sacred books, say the complete works of Arany János or some other literature. Apart from two handfuls of non-ascii characters like áéíóöőúüűAÉÍÓÖŐÚÜŰ–…„”»« and fixed with space which I still don't know if it has a unicode encoding, it uses italic. A lot of italic. Plus a couple of levels of indentation sometimes. The italic isn't supposed to be encoded as characters, and usually is 17:21:19 \ Plus a couple of levels of indentation sometimes. The italic isn't supposed to be encoded as characters, and usually isn't. 17:22:21 <\oren\> Above, if you're using my font, you'll see that I compromized by putting in small abbreiations for what kind of space it is 17:22:52 and if you aren't, you have no idea! 17:23:08 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 17:23:23 <\oren\> Under, "General Punctuation" 17:23:52 So it's completely normal that text contains formatting stuff that isn't characters, like at least italic and headings (chapter titles) and block quotes and the occasional centered row of stars separator, and possibly also line breaks and paragraph breaks and multiple levels of indents, although the latter ones are easy to represent as characters. 17:24:36 \oren\: right, that's the opposite choice as I made in my font. in my font, space characters and the nul character are the only ones that do have a glyph but it isn't distinguishable from ordinary ascii stuff. 17:24:56 <\oren\> Italic exists in unicode for latin letters 17:25:22 <\oren\> But it's not supposed to be used for anything except math 17:25:28 \oren\: isn't that supposed to be for _math_ italic variables, as opposed to italicized text? 17:25:34 right, that 17:26:07 That would usually look wrong for text, and might not have all the necessary characters (you'll need an italicized hyphen at least, which maths doesn't use). 17:26:09 <\oren\> Yeah, but I don't recognize their authority to set rules 17:26:31 Hmm, now I wonder which punctuations ever appear italicized in Arany János poems. 17:26:49 \oren\: I might not recognize unicode's authority, but math italics and text italics are distinct things to me. 17:26:54 <\oren\> So I designed my font in such a way that italics will look ok as running text 17:27:39 \oren\: do you have like a full set of italicized common punctuation marks, for italicized text? possibly in a separate font? 17:27:40 <\oren\> as will the cursive/script latin 17:27:47 If Unicode already has „Yellow Heart: 💛“, why should not it have „Yellow Letter A“, or „Yellow Letter π“, also? 17:28:09 <\oren\> Yeah I'm not doing colors. 17:28:27 <\oren\> in terminals we have a better way of doing colors 17:29:28 *nod* 17:29:53 <\oren\> msee? 17:30:07 <\oren\> wait why does that look wrong 17:31:07 <\oren\> see? 17:31:13 <\oren\> ah there we go 17:32:17 <\oren\> actually what happens if I do ☁️ thsi 17:32:35 <\oren\> stupid emoji, i wanted a green cloud 17:33:08 <\oren\> ☁ test 17:33:14 <\oren\> ah there we go 17:33:22 <\oren\> the non-emoji cloud works 17:48:01 -!- kline has quit (Quit: K-Lined). 17:51:15 -!- kline has joined. 17:58:17 Unicode is 900% stupid. 17:59:02 citation needed 17:59:51 I do design UTCE deliberately omitting complex scripts and stuff that is not easily rendered in terminals, since it is designed mainly for terminals anyways (not for typesetting). (For typesetting, a system like TeX and METAFONT, perhaps a bit more extended, would help more.) 18:02:40 zzo38: It is what has evolved naturally. Nature as a Whole is also way > 100% stupid. 18:04:14 Stupid, dumb, and yet we're talking here... 18:06:45 TBH, I consider Unicode less stupid than the ways to encode it 18:07:09 TBH, if it wasn't for UTF-16, we might have been able to just use bitfields instead of combining char madness 18:07:25 but this is the way it played out 18:08:06 Do you like my UTCE design? 18:08:40 Can't find it. Is there a link? 18:08:51 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:09:00 (Taking advantage of UTCE fonts is still possible even if you are running programs that use ISO 2022 instead.) 18:09:21 -!- Jafet has joined. 18:09:27 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce 18:10:04 I already see an issue with this. 18:10:15 There's a reason UTF-8 avoids the 0x00 to 0x7F area... 18:10:36 Things like C compilers tend to treat the input as ASCII, 18:11:20