00:00:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:01:56 -!- augur has joined. 00:06:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:07:05 -!- rodgort` has joined. 00:07:07 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Perhaps #esoteric should start using Chess Annotation Symbols (??, ?, ?!, !?, !, !!) constantly, possibly when livereading active conversations ) 00:07:36 . o O ( that idea is ?? ) 00:07:51 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:08:43 ITYM ⁇ ⁈ ⁉ and ‼ HTH HAND 00:09:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:09:54 ¿What, compose-?-? just yields a ¿? 00:10:39 -!- augur has joined. 00:12:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_1975 confuses me... 00:12:39 Fischer wanted "first to win 10 games" 00:13:07 And in the event of 9-9 he wanted the current champion (which would be him) to keep the title 00:13:36 In the event of 9-9 in a "first to win 10" format, wouldn't the correct response be "play one more game, the winner is the overall winner"? 00:14:20 Oh, wait, I guess the rationale is that if the score is 9-9, the players are about evenly matched and the 10th game is pretty much decided by a coin toss... 00:14:54 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( How about "first to win 3 more games than the other has won?" (or some s/3/n/ for integer n)? ) 00:15:59 that could in theory last forever 00:22:13 I vaguely recall that the expected value of the absolute distance after N steps of 1-d random walk is something non-constant, which I guess would mean it'd be increasingly unlikely to continue? (Of course you could presumably use that as an argument against any sort of constant difference N as well, since it'd mean exactly evenly matched participants would reach that disparity eventually.) 00:26:42 at least sqrt(n) disparity hth 00:27:12 (that may or may not be the right order) 00:33:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:33:20 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:33:59 zzo38: no, I think all LL(1) languages are LR(1). I could be wrong though. 00:34:24 I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard. Why does it seem like all good mechanical keyboards are horribly expensive? 00:36:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 00:39:32 i'm pretty sure all LL(1) _languages_ are LR(1). not quite sure about _grammars_. 00:40:08 I want a clicky keyboard for home with 50 g force and 101/104 key US layout. 00:40:13 (for the first, an LL(1) recognizer is pretty obviously implementable as a deterministic pushdown automaton) 00:42:16 Seriously, they're horribly expensive. 00:42:21 well, an LR(1) grammar is one which needs only 1 token lookahead at the end of a production, while iirc an LL(1) grammar is one that needs only one token lookahead at the _beginning_ iirc. assuming that, it's pretty trivial for grammars too. 00:42:22 Why do they have to cost this much? 00:42:42 (to be sure that the production is chosen) 00:42:49 How did people even have keyboards for their computers back twenty or thirty years ago when mechanical keyboards were the norm? 00:43:12 It's the market in action hth 00:44:33 You can do other kinds of keyboards cheaper and satisfy the majority of people and so on and so forth. 00:45:07 Yeah, but still, fuck them. 00:47:13 I like the IBM Model F keyboard 00:47:59 Game: Total Shuffle Chess (AKA Chess60277490498889369439384431508790906881064404967751680) 00:48:21 oerjan: I prefer deterministic putdown automata 00:49:17 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] ------### 00:49:18 (well, it might actually be more like Chess15069372624722342359846107877197726720266101241937920 as castling becomes irrelevant and/or impossible) 00:49:40 (processing...) 00:49:55 Ding! 00:49:56 oerjan: Your addiction to swatting indicates deeper issues, and that you're a broken human being worth less than fertilizer 00:52:11 i don't find your putdown as deterministic as my swatter hth 00:56:53 Huh 00:57:17 oerjan: I don't think CS has a concept of /how/ deterministic something is; only whether or not it is 00:57:39 Apparently Bobby Fischer was an anti-semitic asshole (also a holocaust denier) 00:57:43 shocking 00:58:53 the CS thing, that is. the other i'm ignoring. 01:01:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:01:34 I think he was... he said he agreed with Nietzsche that "religion is just to dull the senses of the people"... and yet he published "My 60 Memorable Games" because he thought the rapture was coming soon and figured he'd make some cash first 01:02:23 one day soon, deep learning will allow us to say /ignore hppavilion[1] when he brings up ancient crap 01:02:33 Sure 01:02:52 This is what happens when I read wikipedia 01:02:59 About real-world stuff 01:03:06 "We only ship to Worldwide." -- perfect Engrish grammar 01:03:09 your addiction to bringing up crap indicates deeper 01:03:09 issues, and that you're a broken human being worth less 01:03:09 than fertilizer 01:03:14 dammit irssi 01:04:35 i have paste_detect_time = 100msecs and that's somehow not enough. 01:04:41 wob_jonas: You can only get their stuff in Worldwide, Massachippissippi hth. 01:05:07 * oerjan increases to 200 01:05:52 ...wait, what? 01:05:55 Oh, I see 01:05:58 xD 01:06:18 I needed a joke and that was the best I could come up with. 01:08:46 i was going to bring up Usa, Japan but wikipedia crushed my childhood again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita#Product_labeling 01:09:37 mm, snopes 01:11:05 (wait, does this count as ancient crap, argh) 01:11:40 Done. I've ordered a mechanical keyboard. 01:11:55 YOU CANNOT DOWNLOAD A KEYBOARD, SILLY 01:12:24 I'm not downloading it. It will get here the slow way, on legs. 01:12:40 Takes some time because it has to go around the globe, and not even in a straight line. 01:13:06 (Can't withstand the pressures deep inside Earth.) 01:13:25 do the legs at least not have to swim 01:13:49 oerjan: I think it can take a ship or something 01:14:00 but that's cheating! 01:14:28 Not if it's only a small part of the route, I think. 01:15:16 But maybe it doesn't even need a ship, and can come through all land the long way. 01:15:26 I don't really know. 01:15:53 oerjan: Ha! 01:16:23 wob_jonas: Was it made in USA? 01:17:04 wob_jonas: I don't think so. It's shipping from Hong Kong, and probably made there. 01:17:12 I'm not really sure where these things are made really. 01:20:29 TIL "Philippines" is spelled with a 'ph' and "Filipino" is spelled with an 'f' 01:20:32 WTF 01:22:32 and they speak Tagalog 01:22:37 and Cebuano 01:25:27 hppavilion[1]: well in norwegian, they're both spelled with F hth 01:25:46 oerjan: PLEASE LET ME JOIN YOU 01:26:51 hppavilion[1]: you'll probably need a work permit for that hth 01:27:09 Yeah, probably 01:27:10 or possibly, you could find a norwegian to marry. 01:27:59 i suspect you're unlikely to be granted political asylym, anyway. 01:31:31 Most likely scenario is a Trump presidency, which in the event of I'm genuinely considering leaving the country 01:31:41 Even though it makes me a walking cliche 01:35:53 even with a trump presidency, political asylum may not be automatic hth 01:37:01 hpp: leave to where? 01:37:16 oerjan: Well yeah, it wouldn't 01:37:30 And Norway wasn't high on the list of destinations 01:37:33 wob_jonas: Not sure yet 01:37:39 WAT 01:37:47 oerjan: It's not top 5 01:37:48 HOW DARE YOU NOT BUT NORWAY FIRST 01:38:12 *PUT 01:38:34 oerjan: It's a great country, but it isn't primarily english-speaking 01:38:37 (AFAIK) 01:38:43 oerjan: Norway is nice, I visited in August 01:38:59 hpp: what? Norway is as good as English speaking. most people there speak English, you can get by with English. 01:39:14 and besides, if you already know English, then Norwegian isn't that hard to learn 01:39:14 wob_jonas: Oh? 01:39:15 my roommate and I are experimentingn with canadian banking regulations 01:39:29 I wrote him my rent cheque on the inside flap of a macaroni carton in sharpie 01:39:56 alercah: Are the Canadian bank rules that you don't have to write cheques on the official paper? 01:40:00 oerjan: did you really remain the only Norwegian regular in the channel? 01:40:09 (And does this extend to checks as well?) 01:40:39 wob_jonas: there was another recently, but e hasn't been active enough for me to remember who it was... 01:40:50 ...wtf is 'finnmark 01:40:52 ' 01:40:54 maybe e left again 01:41:10 hppavilion[1]: it's our northernmost county (excluding svalbard) 01:41:20 I mean, it's Finland+Denmark... but it's in Norway... 01:41:23 .oO( minpoijjikop isn't a regular ) 01:41:40 oerjan: Where's Trønnes? 01:41:54 (It's a town, from what I've been told) 01:42:15 hppavilion[1]: funny, we also had an episode in the channel a few years ago when someone found out about the name Finnmark (possibly from me) and was amazed by it 01:42:26 Huh 01:42:30 hppavilion[1]: never heard of that town 01:42:40 Maybe I'm stuck in a CTlL? 01:43:09 it's in Hedmark, in the south of the country. 01:43:12 Ah, apparently Finnmark is a county within Norway 01:43:20 hppavilion[1]: yes, as I understand them, you can write a cheque on anything so long as it contains the requisite information 01:43:21 wob_jonas: I SAID THAT 01:43:41 (it also might not be big enough that anybody knows, the same way I've never heard of Arnold, Nebraska) 01:43:48 yeah, you did, sorry 01:44:07 hpp: or maybe it's so far to the north that nobody goes there 01:46:25 Hm, Google Maps only knows about one in... Meraker? I assume that's a Norwegian county? 01:46:57 It would be nice to know for me too which places within Europe are good for living and working in case I want to leave. 01:47:07 But I don't know much about that. 01:47:10 hppavilion[1]: btw the Finn in Finnmark is the same word as Fin in Finland. afaik (1) there may be some finnish-norwegians ("kvener") there (2) people probably didn't consider the distinction between Finnish and Sami that important back then 01:47:31 Ah 01:48:18 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:49:29 hppavilion[1]: btw Trønnes is a "grend", which is very small, so more a village than a town. 01:49:42 Ah 01:50:46 (not really sure where any of the boundaries are... in my mind, village/town and town/city are interchangeable, and at the same time "city" can describe pretty much anything) 01:51:28 hppavilion[1]: Meråker is a municipality. it's part of Nord-Trøndelag county. 01:51:54 Ok... 01:52:14 Is fnord in Nord, or vice versa? /s 01:52:49 btw the Trønnes i found (on norwegian wikipedia) is not there. it apparently has the distinction of being the first place in norway to get a home for the elderly. 01:53:02 OK... 01:53:33 hpp: Norway has fjords, not fnords 01:53:42 I've seen them 01:53:47 I haven't seen any fnords 01:53:52 wob_jonas: I was under the impression a fnord is a co-fjord 01:54:00 well no one expects you to see the fnords 01:54:03 My browser abbreviates titles when I have too many tabs, and it abbreviated "Grandmaster (chess) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" to "Grandma". I can't complain. 01:54:11 OOOOOOOH 01:54:21 How deep does afnordnia typically go? 01:54:42 fungot, do you like Norway? 01:54:42 wob_jonas: guile was covered a few minutes 01:54:44 i don't know, never heard of ania before. 01:55:26 Will your brain rearrange things to fill in the gap (so if you have a page where a different word on each line, and one of the words is "fnord", will you see a blank line or will all the later words move down?) 01:55:31 s/down/up/ 01:55:34 hppavilion[1]: i think that according to some, a city needs to contain a cathedral hth 01:55:42 That works, I suppose 01:55:45 What's bigger than a city? 01:55:52 anyway, Trønnes in Hedmark has only about 100 families 01:56:00 hpp: a metropolis 01:56:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:56:24 And above that? 01:56:28 Probably a megalopolis 01:56:32 Then a gigalopolis 01:56:46 (Can we define a gigalopolis as 1000000000 or more individuals?) 01:56:48 hpp: or a city-planet like Corouscant or Trantor or Ravnica 01:56:54 Perhaps 01:57:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:58:41 So anyway, keyboard is ordered, but I'll also have to buy a new computer. I'll have to choose a motherboard and stuff. 01:59:00 then there's dyson spheres, i guess 01:59:49 and beyond that it seems a bit hard to get a continuous city. well, not that it's easy with a dyson sphere, i think those aren't actually realistically solid? 02:00:08 a ringworld, maybe. 02:00:27 oerjan: Trantor isn't realistic either 02:00:28 (just need to invent scrith[sp] first) 02:01:28 `wisdom 02:01:29 tas//TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. 02:02:07 gigalo- is a little scow. you're basically taking the greek prefix megalo- (from which mega- comes), and pretending it contains a mega- prefix. 02:02:48 giganto- would be more parallel. 02:03:09 is the next terato-, hm 02:03:26 yep 02:03:54 and from there i'm not sure they come from genuine greek. 02:05:06 hm actually it does, but not in a useful way, peta- is from penta- 02:07:01 `cwlprits tas 02:07:03 oerjan oerjan 02:07:07 wat 02:07:29 how is that possible. 02:07:36 `dowg tas 02:07:38 2016-05-07 ` sed -i \'s/A //\' wisdom/tas \ 2016-05-07 ` mv wisdom/ta{,s}; sed -i \'s/^/A /\' wisdom/tas 02:07:43 oh. 02:07:52 `cwlprits ta 02:07:54 oerjan coppro 02:08:09 `dowg ta 02:08:10 2016-05-07 ` mv wisdom/ta{,s}; sed -i \'s/^/A /\' wisdom/tas \ 2016-05-06 learn TAS is a tool-assisted speedrun: a race in which participants must use quality tools such as the PHP hammer, Autoconf, and the Arkenpliers to assist them in running. 02:08:23 it really didn't seem like my style :P 02:09:06 `? tanebventions 02:09:06 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 02:09:10 `? tanebventions: math 02:09:12 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the axiom of choice, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms. 02:09:38 * oerjan gives shachaf a dowg snack 02:09:39 `? inconceivable 02:09:40 inconceivable? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:09:43 `? impossibl 02:09:44 impossibl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:09:44 `? impossible 02:09:45 impossible? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:10:43 `? hoag 02:10:44 hoag? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:11:08 oerjan: No, I took mega- from megalopolis and replaced it with giga- (because metric) 02:11:18 hppavilion[1]: that's what i said 02:11:27 and that is scow 02:11:27 And? 02:11:33 Oh, I see 02:14:18 `? mk 02:14:19 mk? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:14:22 `? mkx 02:14:23 mkx? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:14:32 `? le/rn 02:14:33 le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 02:15:06 `? culprits 02:15:07 `culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 02:15:17 oerjan: It could also be terastiopolis 02:15:31 `slwd culprits//s/the lists // 02:15:32 Rosebud! 02:15:49 `slwd culprit//s/the lists // 02:15:51 wisdom/culprit//`culprits` is a program that lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 02:16:14 `` mv wisdom/culprit{,s} 02:16:15 (megalo = μεγάλο = terástios = large, terastio = 02:16:15 τεράστιος = terástios = huge) 02:16:17 No output. 02:16:42 hppavilion[1]: terato- is somewhat different. hm. 02:17:22 wait, I did something wrong... 02:18:06 Ha! 02:18:12 Wiktionary includes "ginormous" 02:18:30 well, it's a very cromulent word. 02:19:04 oerjan: I think a lot of people don't like it 02:19:26 OKAY 02:19:54 (but it says comparative is "more ginormous" and superlative is "most ginormous", when it would correctly be "ginormouser" and "ginormousest") 02:19:59 <\oren\> I tought it was spelled gynormous 02:20:01 oerjan: no, I think terato is right. I think it's greek for monster-like, and related to the same word the metric prefix tera comes from 02:20:34 \oren\: No, that's a domain-specific thing used by OB/GYNs 02:21:15 (Also, why doesn't English include the opposite of -er and -est for "more" and "most"? Something to say "less" and "least"?) 02:21:24 (It MUST have historically at some point...) 02:22:35 What's "mg"? <-- velarized m, maybe? 02:22:47 I would think so 02:23:18 of course, n can also be velarized, which seems confusing. 02:23:21 oerjan: I don't think a velarized m makes sense 02:23:42 Oh, IPA uses a ɱ 02:24:50 hpp: ɱ in IPA is not a velarized m 02:24:58 wob_jonas: oh, because m doesn't use the tongue to start with? but m can be palatalized... 02:25:08 wob_jonas: Yeah, that's the problem 02:25:31 So it looks like English n is the alveolar nasal 02:25:40 i'm not really good at distinguish velarization for anything but l, anyway. 02:25:58 hpp: [ɱ] in IPA is the the nasal stop version articulated at the same place as f, which you get from some speakers when they pronounce nf or mf 02:26:06 (God sounds are fun) 02:26:10 And ŋ is the velar nasal 02:26:22 So if m is the labiodental nasal... 02:26:38 hpp: no, it's not 02:26:48 [ɱ] is the labiodental nasal 02:26:50 Oh, no it isn't 02:26:51 Right 02:26:54 I got my tabs confused 02:26:58 wob_jonas: most likely terastios is also related to the same word, so... 02:27:04 If m is the bilabial nasal 02:27:19 called "labiodental" because it's made with your upper teeth pressed to your lower lips, and "labio" means lips and "dent" means teeth 02:27:27 yeah 02:27:30 I'm figuring it out 02:27:30 the names there actually make sense 02:27:40 Yeah, they do 02:28:07 'm' is the bilabial nasal because your lips are pushed together (in the exaggerated version you're taught in preschool) 02:28:11 And, y'know, it's nasal 02:28:15 hppavilion[1]: long words in english don't usually take -er and -est comparatives. hth. 02:28:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:28:45 these are easy to understand because they ([m], [f], [T]) are the three common places of articulation that you can actually see easily from lip-reading ([m] only when not at the start of a word) 02:28:47 oerjan: English is my L1. I think I know the rules. hth. 02:28:56 Then... I have no idea what the equivalent of ng is for m 02:29:05 the other stuff is in your mouth, so you like need X-ray to understand them 02:29:15 X-ray has been done of course, but it's not something you see every day 02:29:25 wob_jonas: Or a mouth 02:29:34 (It MUST have historically at some point...) <-- well norwegian doesn't, and i don't remember any indoeuropean language i've seen doing so. 02:29:39 hpp: a what? 02:29:52 wob_jonas: A mou... you're messing with me 02:30:01 I mean 02:30:04 what with a mouth? 02:30:12 wob_jonas: You need x-ray OR a mouth 02:30:38 You can understand stuff without x-ray if you just pay attention to your mouth 02:31:56 nah 02:32:31 wob_jonas: hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_phonology#Consonants has velarized mˠ 02:34:13 oerjan: ok 02:36:13 i was reading about velarised m recently because it finally answered my long-running mystery of why mh is pronounced /v/ some of the time and /w/ others 02:38:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:38:23 argh irish distinguishes nʲ and ɲ 02:39:01 Wait... 02:39:16 I can't see the difference between the m in 'symphony' and the m in 'rum' 02:39:45 your teeth touch your lips in the former 02:39:57 Phantom__Hoover: OH! 02:40:00 Huh 02:40:06 depends a bit on dialect and personal variation i guess 02:40:33 (Also, I was discussing that there's apparently a difference with my mother. She asked why there were labia in my nose. I had to explain the root to her.) 02:42:54 also distinguishes n̪ˠ from ŋ 02:45:02 Phantom__Hoover: oh so the mh in your name is pronounced like w? 02:45:05 Well I just tried to velarize m... 02:45:08 It's horrifying 02:45:15 oerjan, no it's silent 02:46:32 oh. 02:48:53 oh right, omh refers to another table 02:50:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 02:51:29 Is there a name for the velarized m? "velar bilabial nasal" didn't turn up anything 02:51:35 iiuc it lengthens the o 02:51:53 hppavilion[1]: velar and velarized are not the same thing 02:52:36 ...oh? 02:52:40 WTF IPA 02:52:41 WTF 02:52:55 however, i don't think wikipedia has articles for all combinations with velarized... it's an adjustment you can apply to many consonants. 02:53:05 see the velarization article 02:53:17 OK 02:53:34 hppavilion[1]: velar is primary articulation, but velarized means a secondary articulation in _addition_ to the primary one. 02:54:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:03 same for palatal and palatalized 02:55:01 (also, is there any relation between n and h, or is it just similar symbols?) 02:55:14 (looks like no relation.) 02:55:44 they're presumably both inherited from the phoenician alphabet 02:56:05 But no relation in sounds? 02:57:29 n from Nun. apparently it descends from the egyptian symbol for snake, "djet", and was used for a sound like english J there 02:58:11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N) 02:58:48 h from Heth, via greek Heta before that lost the H 02:59:17 i see, that explains why eta looks like H 02:59:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 02:59:41 "The original Semitic letter Heth most likely represented the voiceless pharyngeal fricative (ħ). The form of the letter probably stood for a fence or posts." 02:59:49 anyway, those articles say more. 03:01:48 hppavilion[1]: anyway, n is pretty far from h in sound, and always has been. 03:02:04 Yeah 03:02:48 unlike U,V,W and Y, which all descend from the same letter hth 03:04:06 oh, and apparently F too 03:05:59 first greek adapted F into a vowel Y, then latin got F with the original sound, borrowed greek Y as V, then borrowed it _again_ as Y, and then created U to distinguish when V was a vowel. 03:06:37 \oren\: ſ looks too much like it's supposed to be esh 03:06:43 (ʃ) 03:06:53 (or Ʃ if using uppercase) 03:06:56 and then someone created W from V, i guess. 03:11:26 actually greek had both F and Y, but lost the w sound that the former represented. 03:11:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F#History 03:14:06 I was just looking for something similar to k, but without the sudden stop 03:14:20 And I wound up in Germany with the voiceless velar fricative 03:14:28 OH MY GOD I LOVE PHONETICS SO MUCH 03:15:48 ach du lieber fonetik 03:16:29 darn 03:16:40 *ach du libe phonetik 03:16:47 argh argh 03:17:02 *Ach du liebe Phonetik 03:17:13 now food -> 03:26:44 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is there a letter that completes n:m::h:_? I can't find any such thing, but it'd be fun to mess with people with ) 03:39:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:44:33 -!- Moonythedwarf has joined. 03:49:04 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:53:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:17:05 -!- Kaynato has joined. 04:47:48 -!- Melvar` has joined. 04:49:20 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:49:52 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:07:12 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:14:07 looks like wikipedia is celebrating Star Trek's 50th anniversary 05:22:22 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:26:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:27:39 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 05:32:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:48 -!- augur has joined. 05:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:59:28 -!- augur has joined. 06:01:56 hppavilion[1]: k 06:02:09 ? 06:02:40 mathematical convention :) 06:03:05 Just as n and m get used as variables of a similar sort, h and k sometimes do as well 06:03:40 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 06:04:03 Cale: i think he meant visually 06:04:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:36 So like ɰ rotated 180 degrees 06:05:46 yep 06:06:00 `unidecode ɰ 06:06:01 [U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG] 06:06:13 -!- carado has joined. 06:06:22 `unicode M WITH 06:06:24 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ UTF-8: c9 b0 UTF-16BE: 0270 Decimal: ɰ \ ɰ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ UTF-8: c9 b1 UTF-16BE: 0271 Decimal: ɱ \ ɱ (Ɱ) \ Uppercase: U+2C6E \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ 06:06:43 `unicode M WITH | grep 'M WITH' 06:06:45 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ UTF-8: c9 b0 UTF-16BE: 0270 Decimal: ɰ \ ɰ \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ UTF-8: c9 b1 UTF-16BE: 0271 Decimal: ɱ \ ɱ (Ɱ) \ Uppercase: U+2C6E \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ 06:06:52 `` unicode M WITH | grep 'M WITH' 06:06:53 No output. 06:07:07 `` unicode 'M WITH' | grep 'M WITH' 06:07:09 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK \ U+04CD CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER EM WITH TAIL \ U+04CE CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER EM WITH TAIL \ U+0616 ARABIC SMALL HIGH LIGATURE ALEF WITH LAM WITH YEH \ U+06B5 ARABIC LETTER LAM WITH SMALL V \ U+06B6 ARABIC LETTER LAM WITH DOT ABOVE \ U+06B7 ARABIC LETTER LAM WIT 06:07:27 `` unicode 'M WITH' | grep ' M WITH' 06:07:28 U+0270 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED M WITH LONG LEG \ U+0271 LATIN SMALL LETTER M WITH HOOK 06:07:33 hmph 06:21:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:28:09 ah yes, now I remember why I ignored HackEgo 06:29:43 sorted 06:44:03 :( 06:44:18 I only ignored the unicode messages 06:44:22 yay 06:44:38 I'd miss 98% of the stuff in the channel once again if I ignored it totally again 06:45:09 I'm trying to pick a couple acoustic tunes for open mic tonight 07:01:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:11:31 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I should learn drug chemistry... ) 07:13:56 Huh, apparently part of the reason anime looks the way it is is that- when it was done with cel animation- it was produced in literally the stupidest way possible 07:14:13 The animation is done first, then the voice actors try to sync with the movement 07:14:26 Rather than taking the soundtrack and making it look like the characters are talking from there 07:31:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:30 I want to release a (CGI) film branded "4D" 07:36:58 By which I mean we used math to render the entire movie in 4D (and projected down to 3D then to 2D for screen viewing) 07:37:05 Such as to give the audience headaches 07:52:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:04:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:10:12 -!- 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REALLY made this stuff watertight. 14:37:20 So if I buy stuff on PayPal, then I must pay PayPal's currency conversion fees, which are way higher than the currency conversion I can get from my bank. But there's no way to actually use the cheaper fees at the bank: 14:39:34 I can transfer money from my bank to PayPal, but if I transfer anything but HUF, then I have to pay the international bank transfer fee, even if I'm transferring from my domestic foreign currency account to Paypal's domestic account, and that fee has a high fixed minimum regardless the amount. 14:39:53 yup 14:40:07 for a while I maintained a USD credit card for that exact reason 14:40:20 but nowadays I don't buy through paypal often enough for it to matter 14:41:08 Or I can pay from a bank card with PayPal, but then they charge the card in the native currency of the bank card, and I can't cheaply have extra bank cards in multiple currencies, even though I totally can have _accounts_ in those currencies, for the extra cards are either inpossible or have a high monthlyfee. 14:42:13 I could save on the costs only if I transferred a large amount of money to PayPal at a single time, but for that I'd have to predict the currency I'm going to buy stuff on PayPal, and that's quite unpredictable: 14:42:26 Yeah, all my income goes through PayPal right now, and that conversion business is kind of annoying. 14:42:41 People sell things on PayPal in USD or CAD (from Asia or America) and in GBP or EUR (from Europe). 14:43:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:43:47 I can try to change to another bank for this, for if another bank gives better conditions, I could transfer, though it could be a bit of a hassle. 14:43:58 I'll have to go ask other banks. 14:44:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:45:04 And I don't buy expensive stuff in PayPal, only cheap stuff. 14:48:39 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:49:26 Cale, you aren't a face I see in here often 14:50:01 Which, to be fair, might be because I don't pay attention very much 14:50:41 or because you don't see faces on irc 14:51:26 izabera, well, *you* don't 14:51:39 what kind of irc are you using? 14:52:10 long ago i used kvirc and it had some protocol for avatars 14:52:51 Alternatively, you could try having a really vivid imagination 14:53:01 i don't even d&d 14:54:25 Oh, and the extra problem is, I'm not even sure I can actually transfer currencies other than HUF to PayPal. They only give a single bank account number for transfer, and I'm not sure it's possible for a single account number to receive multiple currencies. I called their customer support, 14:54:57 and the lady said I probably can transfer other currencies, but she's not sure, and I should try. And to try, I have to pay the expensive bank transfer fee regardless the amount. 14:56:36 Incidentally, calling their customer support on phone is an international call, which also costs a shitton. 14:56:47 Taneb: shachaf told me to join when I wrote https://hackage.haskell.org/package/category-printf and I just stuck around, but haven't had much occasion to say a whole lot 14:57:10