00:01:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:02:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:07:26 it strikes me that a decimal conversion function would be fairly hard in that language 00:07:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:11:31 hm i suddenly realized you can do collatz functions with just GOTO there 00:11:55 i didn't know that back in 2002 or when it was, i thought SWAP was necessary for TC-ness of it. 00:13:31 (i had a version with more elaborate labels that even then i realized needed only GOTO) 00:15:17 the admin upgraded irssi on some of the servers, but not this one yet for some reason. going to bed -> 00:15:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:29:50 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:43 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:30:48 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:31:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:31:43 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:48 -!- Kaynato has joined. 00:35:12 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:35:33 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:18 -!- Kobalt has joined. 00:36:29 -!- Kobalt has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:30 `` sed -i 's/\.$/ and rejecting scientific papers./' wisdom/peer 00:37:34 No output. 00:37:39 `? peer 00:37:40 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections and rejecting scientific papers. 00:37:48 :) 00:40:50 did you just copy the joke at the beginning of the sentence 01:00:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:04:24 ...oh. 01:04:54 Must have been added at some point 01:05:07 `revert 01:05:21 `? peer 01:05:22 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:05:23 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. his reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:05:46 (Maybe we mention how e serves on US juries as well?) 01:05:54 what someone can do is fix the awkward grammar 01:06:11 No, you don't need to stuff every flavor of ice cream into one cone. 01:06:18 `` sed -i 's/his/His/' wisdom/peer 01:06:21 Fine... 01:06:21 No output. 01:06:28 `? peer 01:06:29 peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. His reviews are in high demand, but nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people's irc connections. 01:07:00 `revert 01:07:02 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:07:15 That wisdom entry is lowercase on purpose. 01:07:21 ...did I miss something? 01:07:23 Why? 01:07:41 * hppavilion[1] waits for the obvious pun to set in 01:07:48 For ambiguity. 01:07:58 There was a discussion when oerjan first added it. 01:08:03 `` dowg peer | tac 01:08:04 2016-06-11 learn peer gynt is a famous norwegian troll. nowadays he amuses himself by resetting people\'s irc connections. \ 2016-09-15 slwd peer//s#.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# \ 2016-09-15 revert \ 2016-09-15 slwd peer//s#\\.#. his reviews are in high demand, but# \ 2016-09-21 ` s 01:09:01 you are like an elephant in a china shop 01:09:19 OH, is 'his' short for something? Probably "Health Information Service"? 01:09:29 shachaf: Elephants wish they were this clumsy. 01:10:34 I hate reading IRC logs of myself. 01:17:51 [wiki] [[Vrejvax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49753&oldid=31396 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* External resources */ deadlink 01:37:34 Whenever I try a code line that fails, then another one which fails, and so on, I comment those lines with a label "N/G". And I keep those lines; so as to know what not to try again. Thus my source file is not "clean"---but it's hella powerful for maintenance/refactoring. 01:38:33 no? 01:44:30 tuttobene: I don't think I've heard of that practice before. 01:45:44 It seems like rather than saying "I tried doing A, B, and C all together, and the combination didn't work", it would be more useful to say "do not do B, because that won't work". 01:46:16 hm. From Don Knuth, if i remember correctly, idea of Literary programming. 01:48:09 So now I'm pondering how you could convert 1-bit Brainfuck to SMETANA To Infinity!. 01:48:39 what makes me do that is usually poorly written documentation. Because the only way to solve an ambiguity of definitions is to try the meanings of the thing. 01:49:03 tuttobene: literate programming? I think it's about interspersing a program with prose describing it 01:49:40 FireFly: yes, "Literate" programming 01:49:46 GHC supports .lhs files where only programs starting with > (IIRC) are actually interpreted.. so basically the default mode is "comment" and you have to opt-in for code, rather than the other way around 01:50:15 heh heh ... the man was a genius 01:50:34 still is 01:50:43 :) 01:51:36 I'm thinkin' you'd use the first part of memory to contain the BF program, and the remainder to contain the tape. Each tape cell would be realized as a few STI! memory cells. 01:52:05 You could keep track of the content using a couple of instructions like this: 01:52:38 Step 1000. Go to step 1. Step 1001. Go to step 2. 01:52:43 If you want to flip the memory cell, that's: 01:52:52 Step 1002. Swap step 1000 with step 1001. 01:53:21 tswett: doesn't that only let you flip a specific, hardcoded cell? rather than being able to index? 01:53:52 Yeah, memory location 1002 will be only for flipping that one cell. 01:54:01 If you want to flip the cell at 2000, then jump to 2002 instead. 01:54:27 -!- moon__ has joined. 01:55:03 I think we could say... 01:55:15 ah right 01:55:21 Step 3 always contains an instruction that means "Go to step [whichever one flips the current cell]". 01:55:33 now I'm heavily reminded of The Amnesiac From Minsk 01:55:39 Step 4 always says "Go to step [whichever one moves us left]", step 5 always says "go to step [whichever one moves us right]". 01:55:47 because the basic issue is that once you've flipped a cell, you lose track of where you were 01:55:50 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:56:05 but of course you can work around this via holding the state that keeps track of the instruction pointer elsewhere 01:56:38 And each BF tape cell contains code to swap something else into all of those places. 01:57:34 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 01:57:57 Steps 1003, 1004, and 1005 could be the "storage locations" for the steps that are intended to be placed at locations 3, 4, and 5. 01:59:03 Step 1006 can be the "entry point" for flipping the current cell. It will look like... "Step 1006. Swap step 1000 with step 1001. Step 1007. Go to step 6." 01:59:57 We can say that step 6 is sort of the standard return location. 02:01:48 what's wrong with BF? 02:01:58 If step 1008 is the entry point for moving right, it'll say something like... "Step 1008. Swap step 3 with step 1003. Step 1009. Swap step 2003 with step 3. Step 1010. Swap step 4 with step 1004. Step 1011. Swap step 2004 with step 4. Step 1012. Swap step 5 with step 1005. Step 1013. Swap step 2005 with step 5. Step 1014. Go to step 6." 02:02:09 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:02:19 tuttobene: who said there was something wrong with it? 02:02:55 * tuttobene shrugs 02:04:22 Step 1015 will be the entry point for moving left, and steps 1015 through 1021 will be analogous. But ignore the fact that the tape cell at step 1000 is the leftmost one... 02:08:51 I want to see 'this statement is a lie' Fawlty Tower plotted 02:09:24 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:24:32 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:24:49 -!- moon__ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 02:24:57 -!- 64MAAZPA1 has joined. 02:26:10 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 02:26:10 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 02:26:13 -!- Akaibu has quit. 02:50:03 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!/brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49754 * Tanner Swett * (+4378) Created page with "A tape of 1-bit memory cells can be implemented like this: # We assume that steps 1 through 6 are laid out like this: # # 1 through 3: The desired return location for an o..." 02:57:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Calesyta * New user account 02:58:45 huh, it's the people behind the esolang contest 02:59:53 Imagine that. 03:00:21 Cale syta 03:16:56 -!- the-manless-man has joined. 03:22:38 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:23:04 -!- moon__ has joined. 03:31:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:35:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:24:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:28:05 my new isp blocks thepiratebay and a bunch of torrent related sites but i can still seed and download torrents 04:28:39 It's somewhat harder to block BitTorrent itself. 04:29:07 Not impossible, but you need to do traffic analysis rather than just block some hosts or IP addresses. 04:32:04 -!- Kaynato has joined. 04:35:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:52:32 I should watch Growing a Language... 04:52:43 izalove: Which ISP do you have? 04:52:48 (What country?) 04:52:49 3 04:52:51 italy 04:52:54 Ah 04:53:03 Your country's freedom laws are terrible 04:53:08 they're fine 04:53:12 my isp sucks 04:53:16 (ISPs should never, EVER be allowed to filter internet) 04:53:27 izalove: The fact that the ISP can legally do that indicates a problem 04:54:04 I agree, but it's pretty common. 04:54:29 I can at least understand it with blocking port 25, though. 05:00:56 I'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahvzDzKdB0 (the talk where Guy Steele only let himself use 1-syllable words and n-syllable words defined in terms of previous words) 05:01:35 I was about to say he slipped up, then I remembered he defined plurals earlier 05:07:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:08:42 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:10:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 05:19:31 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:00:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:25 -!- augur has joined. 06:05:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:17:43 -!- the-manless-man has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:44:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:50:58 i just found the best subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/PaidForWinRAR/ 06:53:01 ok i was overly excited by the name but the actual posts aren't that funny 06:54:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:59:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:01:58 -!- 64MAAZPA1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:05:39 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwiFl6w5fUE 07:07:40 <\oren\> polish vocals in a touhou song? what sorcery is this? 07:08:36 <\oren\> hooray for global cultural mixing! 07:14:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:14:52 -!- heroux has joined. 07:19:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:29:37 -!- augur has joined. 07:38:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:44:42 (I have yet to encounter at my high school... in fact, I haven't encountered ANY students at school with any /semblance/ of power or even prestige) 07:47:58 turns out real life is boring 07:48:44 lol 07:49:12 -!- augur has joined. 07:55:26 Could someone show me what Unicode U+2055 character looks like in your system? 07:56:18 ⁕ looks like an asterisk in my browser, and a replacement character in my terminal. 07:57:39 replacement char? something like a dash? 07:58:09 No, like U+FFFD 08:03:29 thanks. I get the asterisk in Gnome char mapper, but a dash in Vim. I think the problem is the font i use in Vim. 08:03:51 DejaVu Sans Mono 08:06:12 IRC seems ok: U+2055 ⁕ 08:23:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:45:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:46:07 <\oren\> I have that in my font 08:46:18 <\oren\> it's a eight pointed asterisk 08:51:42 -!- carado has joined. 08:55:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:38 <\oren\> Hmm, I can't draw the correct character for U+2673 in 9x16, so I'm gonna draw it as プラ１ 09:26:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:34:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:34:43 -!- augur has joined. 10:14:59 -!- tuttobene has quit. 11:16:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:27:33 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:40 bohily 11:30:59 hellørjan. 11:35:49 [wiki] [[SMETANA To Infinity!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49755&oldid=49751 * Oerjan * (+205) /* Computational class */ Thought of this yesterday. 12:24:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PROTECTED CHICKEN). 13:21:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:34:24 -!- moon__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:41:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:45:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:07:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:11:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:13:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:44:32 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:03:34 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: My microwave oven blew the fuse). 15:04:12 -!- nortti has joined. 15:10:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:16:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:55:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:03:43 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:06:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:26:20 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:36:40 @oeis 7,31,19,25,22,47,23,35,29 16:36:41 Sequence not found. 16:38:44 -!- wanderman has joined. 16:47:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:47:49 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:52:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:01:14 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:03:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 17:03:08 hi, \oren 17:03:14 argh 17:03:18 hi, \oren\ 17:03:52 how's the hangul glyphs in your font coming along? 17:07:15 is fungot back yet? 17:07:15 wob_jonas: and what a kludgy hacks those were. mohkale sent me a fnord 17:07:34 fungot: WHAT? you call them kludgy hacks? 17:07:35 wob_jonas: as opposed to a list of lists like ( ( a d) is not exactly a cml manual, but it 17:07:38 they weren't that bad 17:08:45 "((a d)" does look like the start of a list of lists, but it was never finished 17:13:57 fungot, close that list 17:13:58 wob_jonas: seems to be also noticeably slower than the native back end, was at transmeta and completely disconnected from scheme for several years despite having properly paid work too. 17:14:17 transmeta? 17:14:32 where linus worked 17:15:09 yeah, but how does that get in this fungot theme? 17:15:10 wob_jonas: for an example. named-let replaces the need for lambda i am bit lost on how it was put up, i get down to bickering about do versus named let versus whatever else for the newton because dylan didn't fit right at the beginning 17:15:10 they were a CPU manufacturer, and wanted Linux to do well 17:15:24 because it would mean that there's be no particular reason not to switch your computer to a Transmeta CPU 17:15:50 while Windows is the #1 OS, it gives something of an advantage to Intel and to a lesser extent AMD, making it harder for other CPU manufacturers to compete 17:17:17 ais523: the part that making modern cpus is incredibly difficult and requires a lot of development cost paid up front before they can sell anything so only the largest companies can do it might also be part of it 17:18:30 so after a while everyone but intel and amd gave up making hardware x86 cpus, and amd is having a hard time catching up now too, intel might get the monopoly 17:23:37 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:26:39 wob_jonas: #scheme, 2006-12-27: Guillermo Rozas, who revived the C back end, was at Transmeta and completely disconnected from Scheme for several years. 17:27:27 fizzie: heh 17:27:33 so that's where that's from 17:41:21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHReqKRvonE you need to watch this video 17:49:26 <\oren\> RRGH 17:50:26 ohai \oren\, how's the hangul font coming? 17:50:49 <\oren\> idiots. the thing you stand on is a podium, from "pod" = foot. the thing you read your notes from is a lectern from "lectura" = read 17:51:22 <\oren\> but noooo apparently americans call a lectern a podium 17:51:33 why is it so upsetting? 17:51:45 what? would they really do that? 17:52:07 that's almost like calling diapers nappies 17:52:19 or calling underwear pants 17:52:36 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it's sort of working. I still need to convert back from my ad-hoc bitmap format to BDF 17:53:02 good 17:53:04 that shouldn't be hard 17:53:21 <\oren\> (the ad-hoc bitmap format is simply an array of 16 unsigneds, one for each row of pixels) 17:53:52 <\oren\> yeah i think I'll have it done by midnight today 17:53:55 great, then you don't even need to transpose 17:54:16 just print it as hexadecimal and put some headers on it 17:54:23 possibly reverse the bits or nibbles or bytes 17:54:27 <\oren\> essentially yes 17:54:53 <\oren\> the hard part was designeing the various forms for each jamo 17:54:58 yep 17:55:02 definitely 17:55:16 16x16 is just so small for this 17:57:32 <\oren\> yeah. I'm using different line widths depending on what fits 17:57:50 <\oren\> but I might change to only thin lines, if that looks better 18:02:46 if anyone calls a lift an "elevator", I'll find out if "overuse of description" is a crime. 18:03:41 isn't "elevator" just the en_US name for them? 18:04:33 Hmm, true. 18:08:32 -!- izalove has set topic: cool, i can change the topic again | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 18:09:54 <\oren\> Ohhh shiyut! Brian Pagliano, the guy who refused to come to a hearing, was held in contempt of congress. 18:10:24 <\oren\> he could serve jailtime for that 18:10:33 um 18:10:42 what does that mean? 18:10:49 "held in contempt of congress"? 18:11:05 <\oren\> wob_jonas: he was served a subpoena to come and testify, but refused to show up 18:11:21 <\oren\> that is itself a crime 18:11:24 ah 18:11:30 ok 18:11:39 and they call that "held in contempt of congress"? 18:11:44 what does "congress" even mean there? 18:12:19 <\oren\> well the hearing was before the House of Representatives, that is, the lower house of their parliament which they call "congress" 18:12:34 oh 18:12:42 he was summoned to the congress? 18:12:43 I see 18:12:59 <\oren\> yeah, they wanted to ask him about erasing Hillary's emails 18:13:51 <\oren\> they're really driving the issue into the bedrock 18:13:57 \oren\: source? I'd expect this to be all over Reddit because it's the sort of story they love, but I can't see it anywhere on the relevant front pages 18:14:19 <\oren\> ais523: I watched them vote to fdo it about an hour ago 18:14:43 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivw1BDLpdaw 18:14:49 fdo? is that another extension of the monad do syntax? 18:14:52 ah right, the media probably haven't had a chance to write about it yet 18:15:12 we're faster than news sites here on #esoteric? no way 18:15:17 I mean, come on 18:15:21 well it's almost completely offtopic 18:15:26 also surprising 18:15:29 <\oren\> yeah. i have an alert that tells me when the house is streaming on youtube 18:15:47 you'd expect him to turn up and take the fifth repeatedly, given things that have happened so ar 18:15:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:15:56 <\oren\> so that I can see their governement tear itself apart in real time 18:16:09 *far 18:16:26 unfortunately this probably raises the chances of Trump getting elected 18:16:31 <\oren\> ais523: two other people did show up and take the fifth repeatedly 18:17:04 <\oren\> he didn't even bother showing up, and sent a lawyer to say that he was taking the fifth. 18:17:23 <\oren\> that's not really something you're allowed to do unfortunately for him 18:17:43 didn't the lawyer tell him that? 18:17:57 I mean, seriously, ignoring a summons to congress? how can he be that stupid? 18:18:07 does he have so much money he's planning to disappear completely? 18:18:55 <\oren\> Also, they subpoena'ed the FBI last week. I think this is a show of power to tell the FBI that they can and will hold the entire FBI in contempt if necessary 18:19:25 <\oren\> they asked to FBI for every scrap of paper they have on hillary clinton 18:19:48 wow 18:19:53 that might be a lot of papers 18:19:58 <\oren\> yeah... 18:20:29 <\oren\> they were mad that the FBI only gave them some select documents that they thought would help 18:21:12 congress is Republican-controlled, right? they're probably looking for a scandal about hillary that they can use to help them win the election 18:21:13 <\oren\> and the FBI blacked out a bunch of names and emails from the files, which they werent suppose to 18:21:19 <\oren\> ais523: yes 18:22:24 <\oren\> this entire thing is to undermine hillary, and they will probably continue to do it even if she wins 18:22:49 well duh 18:22:59 that's how politics always works 18:23:03 <\oren\> as I said I want to watch the US governement tear itself apart in real time. because it's funny 18:23:38 it's not funny 18:23:53 <\oren\> It's funny to me! I have a sane government 18:24:18 it's still not funny. it might have bad effects. 18:24:36 unfortunately the US is large enough that it affects the world 18:24:46 exactly 18:24:52 :-( 18:24:56 in the nethack devteam we're seriously debating whether US crypto export regulations prevent us using a good RNG 18:25:28 ais523: haven't they changed those crypto export regulations five or ten years ago? 18:25:39 wob_jonas: yes but they still aren't entirely removed 18:25:49 with open source programs you're meant to send them a link to the repo, I think 18:25:58 um 18:26:27 closed source has tighter restrictions 18:26:28 isn't the limitation now only that you can't export anything to north korea and cuba and iran and whoever they think of embargoing, regardless of whether cryptography is even involved? 18:26:35 I don't think so 18:26:52 apparently even the UK has a crypto export restriction, I can't remember the exact details 18:26:58 except that it's less restrictive than the US's 18:27:36 <\oren\> keep your server IN cuba, problem solved 18:27:37 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:27:50 so the people with AES tattoos still can't travel on international airplanes? 18:28:03 \oren\: no good, then you still can't export to north korea 18:28:04 <\oren\> no laws about IMPORTing crypto FROM cuba right? 18:28:11 \oren\: I say keep your server in north korea instead 18:28:15 hmm no 18:28:16 not exactly sure how you can get an AES tattoo 18:28:17 that wouldn't work either 18:28:18 could be painful 18:28:27 lots of code 18:28:51 \oren\: I think the US doesn't allow that either 18:28:59 or maybe it does, I dunno 18:29:54 ais523: well, this is news to me 18:30:03 I thought the US stopped with that thing 18:30:21 I mean, debian stopped having a separate repository for a version of debian with the crypto stuff stripped ages ago 18:30:55 meh, everybody who wants crypto will get crypto anyway 18:31:02 wob_jonas: http://www.cryptolaw.org/cls2.htm#us 18:31:03 it's not like export restrictions actually mean anything 18:31:33 gamemanj: that part isn't the problem 18:32:25 I get the feeling that the problem is that although if you exported crypto illegally you'd be fine, if another company's lawyers knew your company was exporting crypto, they'd get annoyed and make a fuss 18:32:40 "Unrestricted crypto source code (like most "open source" software) and publicly available commercial source code (like "community source" code) can be exported to any end-user under a license exception without a technical review. BXA (BIS) must be given a copy or the URL of the source code. All other source code can be exported under license exception after a technial review to any non-government end-user. One may not, however, knowlingly export 18:32:42 source code to a terrorist country, although source code may be posted on the WWW for downloading without the poster having to check whether it is downloaded from a terrorist country." 18:33:39 So, basically, they're marking off countries and saying they're "terrorist countries"? 18:33:57 Now I know where Trump got his lines from. 18:34:34 Just say "We are at war with country X, and we intend to take the land and add an extra state to America if we win." 18:35:15 (This is probably a bad idea for several reasons.) 18:36:18 gamemanj: by "terrorist coutry" they mean the countries where the terrorists buy military equipment from Russia, not from the US, so the US is pissed and sets embargoes against them so they can't buy weapons from the US later either. 18:42:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:44:24 "On 7 January 2011, a minor amendment was made to the EAR (Federal Register Vol. 76, No. 5, p. 1059). Publicly available mass-market encryption object code software (with symmetric key length exceeding 64 bits), and publicly available encryption object code of which the corresponding source code falls under License Exception TSU (i.e., when the source code is publicly available), are no longer subject to the EAR. The amendment includes some minor 18:44:25 specific revisions." 18:44:31 OK, /that/ seems like it's usable for NetHack 18:46:57 or, hmm 18:47:00 I'm reading the actual law behind it now, and it's confusing 18:48:42 <\oren\> gamemanj: he didn'tsay he'd take the land, just the oil under it. but it amounts to the same thing 18:50:25 ais523: Europe probably still has stupid agreements remaining from the world war 2 peace treaties limiting producing weapons, and since back in the world war, armies actually used cryptography in wars, maybe it covers crypto stuff too 18:51:15 wob_jonas: most of Europe uses the Wassenaar Arrangement 18:51:23 which is about things that have both civilian and military purposes 18:51:49 ais523: could you tell me what the connection to nethack is? 18:51:53 "things that have both civilian and miliatry purposes" => that's about most things in the world 18:52:19 myname: ais523 distributes a cryptographic random generator with nethack4. 18:52:25 myname: a random number generator can be used as a stream cipher, or vice versa 18:52:35 and he's in the devteam now 18:52:40 if you want to remove various RNG exploits, the RNG needs to be powerful enough that it makes for a fairly good stream cipher 18:52:45 nice 18:53:04 and, in fact, using an /actual/ stream cipher is probably better than trying to design one manually 18:53:17 <\oren\> apparently when someon is held in contempt, they have the option to order the sergeant at arms to drag the person to the capitol in chains 18:53:43 <\oren\> this hasn't been done since 1937 but they could do it tomorrow if they wanted 18:53:45 right. and you can't just use a crypto random generator from the system libraries because DOS doesn't have one and nethack wants to ... no wait 18:53:46 hmm, in the UK it's spelled serjeant at arms for some reason (even though "serjeant" is not a real word in any other context) 18:54:01 they normally do nothing, but one time a protester broke into the house of commons 18:54:06 <\oren\> they don't have to go through a coury in that case 18:54:11 and the serjeant at arms actually drew his sword on the protester 18:54:19 <\oren\> they can just vote to jail the guy 18:54:19 ...that sounds awesome 18:54:30 I like to think that he'd been waiting for years for that opportunity 18:54:45 <\oren\> Canada's sergeant at arms shot a terrorist a while ago 18:54:58 <\oren\> kevin vickers 18:55:36 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Texck-TbkM 18:55:53 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GofES3-TzJw <- better video 18:57:00 <\oren\> trigger wrning: steven colbert 18:57:57 on another point, what should i add to the df like after hauling and a workshop system works fine? i will add the concept of rooms next, but i have no clear line after that 18:58:13 remember when this channel wasn't about politics? those were good times... 18:58:33 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:58:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:59:18 myname: Some sort of device that counts the other devices directly adjacent to it (horizontally, diagonally and vertically), 18:59:32 gamemanj: what for? 18:59:33 <\oren\> myname: add pots and barrels and other containers 18:59:42 int-e: this channel is very rarely about esolangs, unfortunately 18:59:45 I prefer it when it is though 19:00:04 i have barrels and you can brew with seeds (because of lack of plants :D) 19:00:08 at this point, I don't really feel comfortable declaring anything in particular offtopic unless it's problematic for another reason, because it's hard to deduce what the topic of the channel even /is/ 19:00:09 if the amount is less than 2, the device should self-destruct, if the amount is more than 3, it should self-destruct, and if there is a space in the area with exactly 3 neighbors, 19:00:16 it should create a new device there. 19:00:43 gamemanj: i see what you did there 19:00:44 (just copied from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life ) 19:00:47 <\oren\> gamemanj: that sounds more like a good behaviour for a monster 19:00:51 \oren\, ais523: about dragging in chains or pulling the sword, https://stickman.qntm.org/comics.php?n=622 is relevant 19:00:53 gamemanj: people who put random game of life impls into their sandbox games normally don't have a large enough playfield to do anything much more interesting than a glider gun 19:00:54 gamemanj: but that would probably be abused 19:01:15 ais523: But for a df-like? 19:01:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:01:36 i even have a wannebe dwarf therapist inside 19:01:37 well, how large is the actively tracked portion of the world? 19:01:50 <\oren\> a monster that can't move, but simulates a cellular automaton would be fun 19:02:32 Captain! We're being attacked by a wild glider! 19:02:47 currently my levels are 60x80, i am.not sure how high i should put it 19:02:48 <\oren\> ideally there would be several species having different rules 19:03:00 ressources are kind of a concern in smartphones 19:03:33 (It's pentominoized the right LWSS forward transferral system!) 19:03:34 it will get tricky when i come to actual monsters 19:03:45 since i don't reallygot army in df :D 19:04:03 gamemanj: I've wanted to create a competitive game set inside the Game of Life universe for a while 19:04:08 but couldn't figure out a good way to do it 19:04:19 Cubicon comes closer; that's more of an MMO set inside a cellular automaton 19:04:39 what the hell is cubicon 19:04:55 although I'm still not entirely sure the rules are right (especially wrt things like whether there should be a speed of light limit), and I have no clue how to impl it 19:05:06 myname: a 3D cellular-automaton-like I was working on 19:05:14 ah 19:05:17 I know most of the basic rules but there are various interactions I'm not sure on how they should work 19:05:24 um 19:05:38 but all cellular automatons have a speed of light limit, don't they? 19:05:41 it just might be higher 19:05:59 that's why I said cellular-automaton-like 19:07:05 one thing I was considering was making it into a true automaton 19:07:05 i still need someone to make graphics for me :( 19:07:09 but that might make it a bit less realistic 19:09:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:12:40 <\oren\> myname: try using a DF-like ascii art for now 19:13:12 i actually try to make it usable :D 19:16:58 "Items may be controlled as encryption items even if the encryption is actually performed by the operating system, an external library, a third-party product or a cryptographic processor. If an item uses encryption functionality, whether or not the code that performs the encryption is included with the item, then BIS evaluates the item based on the encryption functionality it uses." 19:17:00 what the hell 19:17:41 ais523: that's at least consistent, it bites backwards too 19:17:56 yes 19:18:17 but this means that a huge proportion of software can't legally be exported from the US without a license 19:18:20 ais523: "and that export of non-key recovery financial-specific cryptography is allowed if it can by design only be used for financial applications" 19:18:41 can you even imagine cryptography designed to only be used for financial applications? 19:19:01 wob_jonas: ship it in object code form with a financial application 19:19:03 that would be like guns designed only for sport or only for hunting deer 19:19:17 BIS seems to assume that nobody will decompile or modify the products that are shipped 19:20:50 it seems like they care for the end products, not the algorithm 19:21:07 if that's how it worked, then nethack probably wouldn't be affected, because it's clearly not designed to do cryptography 19:21:19 I mean what crazy esolanger would use nethack to implement a cryptography application? 19:21:44 that would be like using TeX to implement one 19:21:49 "Software A writes to a file system. That file system might be encrypted..." 19:21:55 (a) The primary function or set of functions is not any of the following: (1) "Information security"; (2) A computer, including operating systems, parts and components therefor; (3) Sending, receiving or storing information (except in support of entertainment, mass commercial broadcasts, digital rights management or medical records management); or (4) Networking (includes operation, administration, management and 19:21:57 provisioning); (b) The cryptographic functionality is limited to supporting their primary function or set of functions; and (c) When necessary, details of the items are accessible and will be provided, upon request, to the appropriate authority in the exporter’s country in order to ascertain compliance with conditions described in paragraphs (a) and (b) above. 19:22:43 that's the relevant exemption, but NetHack may fall afoul of (a)(2) and possibly (c) 19:23:13 what does "limited to supporting" mean? 19:23:18 how do you limit cryptography? 19:23:42 don't ask me, I didn't write that rule! 19:23:49 I also think the rule is fairly incomprehensible 19:23:59 yeah 19:37:17 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:40:30 `` cat bin/smlist | rot13 19:40:40 rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ zbadl \ ryyvbgg \ zabdl 19:40:49 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:41:04 Cale: If you want to sign up for super mega notifications, you can `` echo Cale >> bin/smlist 19:41:33 funpuns :D 19:41:57 `` echo Cale >> bin/smlist 19:42:00 No output. 19:42:29 similarly olist for oots notifications and so on 19:42:32 `` ls bin/*list* 19:42:33 bin/aglist \ bin/bardsworthlist \ bin/danddreclist \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist \ bin/ehlist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/FireFlist \ bin/flist \ bin/idealist \ bin/ioccclist \ bin/keenlist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/listlist \ bin/llist \ bin/makelist \ bin/makelistlist \ bin/makelistlist shachaf \ bin/minimalist 19:42:46 that is a lot more entries than i expected 19:43:02 minima-list 19:43:10 Cale: You might chet out `list 19:43:15 It's pretty good. 19:43:16 now I'm really curious as to what the listlist is 19:43:31 shachaf: you almost baited me into starting a line with `list then :-P 19:43:49 `? listlist 19:43:51 listlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:44:01 bin, not wisdom 19:44:01 I think it was a notification list for when people add new lists maybe? 19:44:13 Yes, but some lists have wisdom entries to match describing what they are. 19:44:18 `cat bin/listlist 19:44:19 ​#!/bin/sh \ set -e \ export LANG=C \ cd /hackenv/bin;exec ls -dF *[lL]ist* 19:44:30 Oh, it's just a list of lists. 19:44:35 `listlist 19:44:36 FireFlist* \ aglist* \ bardsworthlist* \ danddreclist* \ don'taskdon'ttelllist@ \ dontaskdonttelllist* \ ehlist* \ emptylist* \ erflist* \ flist* \ idealist* \ ioccclist* \ keenlist* \ list* \ listen* \ listlist* \ llist* \ makelist* \ makelistlist* \ makelistlist shachaf* \ minimalist* \ mlist* \ olist* \ pbflist* \ slist* \ smlist* \ stylist* \ t 19:44:54 what did you expect it to be? 19:45:07 11:44 I think it was a notification list for when people add new lists maybe? 19:45:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists 19:45:54 I just realised that that page can reasonably be considered Wikipedia's index 19:46:11 `doag bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:13 2016-07-14 makelist makelistlist shachaf 19:46:24 `cat bin/makelistlist 19:46:25 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf 19:46:26 `cat bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:27 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 19:46:34 no way. Wikipedia's index is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages 19:46:34 `rm bin/makelistlist shachaf 19:46:38 No output. 19:46:50 wob_jonas: well I guess it is in alphabetical order… 19:46:57 Special:PrefixIndex has "index" in its name 19:47:10 rntz (who isn't in this channel anymore, I guess) once added https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Self-reference to itself 19:47:16 AllPages has a better interface than PrefixIndex 19:47:17 But the edit got reverted. 19:47:19 in fact, allpages is conceptually a special case of prefixindex, I'm not sure why it exists a separate page 19:47:22 Which seems illegitimate to me. 19:47:34 ais523: better interface 19:47:56 you can type a place to start to allpages, but it doesn't cut off after that prefix 19:51:26 My fungot t-shirt arrived! 19:51:26 fizzie: freebsd env wc -c says so :p. google did indeed have sufficient context 19:53:20 although admittedly, AllPages has a very stupid bug that PrefixIndex doesn't: if you invoke AllPages with a prefix after a slash like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AllPages/t then trying to use the form to choose a different prefix fails in a confusing way. 19:54:18 but still, you can't use PrefixIndex to start listing from a given word and continue after that prefix 19:54:21 which sucks 19:54:27 so AllPages is definitely better 19:54:37 fizzie: t-shirt? 19:54:46 gamemanj: I got this freebie custom t-shirt code from a thing, so I made one that has fungot's babble-generation code and an esolangs.org ad on it. 19:54:47 fizzie: well, a bf program that could deal with the win32 registry? " nice" multiline fnord hugging/ ascii art scripts. :p fnord/ cfs/ fnord/ rotterdam, perhaps leiden, as well 19:54:53 Lines 125-169 of https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 19:54:54 fizzie: http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ manual/ s48manual.html and http://www.scsh.net/ docu/ html/ guile-user/ 2003-10/ msg00076.html, but in the end 19:55:27 It looks pretty nice. I'll take a picture of it at some point. 19:55:34 fungot, they're using an Enigma machine to crack the hieroglyph cipher 19:55:34 wob_jonas: missing cases for the ' ..u.s' word, and large bodies of code are. 19:56:58 once upon a time, there was normal programming... then there was functional programming... now, there is structured programming 19:57:24 (A punctuation control triangle falls from the sky.) 19:58:25 I still don't recall what I was thinking when I thought it needed to be a triangle. 19:58:32 A comb would have been so much more space-efficient. 19:58:50 fizzie: Maybe you had a premonition of a t-shirt. 19:59:02 Your t-shirt has an awesome triangle on it. 19:59:20 That's true. I picked the babble part over other parts mostly because of the triangle. 20:01:18 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:01:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:03:56 <\oren\> they would have problems if they had a list of lists that don't include themselves. 20:04:57 <\oren\> list of lists that include this list 20:04:59 A list of lists that don't include themselves would contain at least everything that is a list but is not a list of lists. 20:05:38 It would also contain lists of lists in the particular case that the list of lists does not include itself. 20:05:58 However, it could include the original list, 20:06:02 <\oren\> gamemanj: yes, but there would be an eternal edit war over whether it should include itself 20:06:14 It's obvious. 20:06:17 It would not. 20:06:36 If it does not include itself, it is more factually correct than if it includes itself. 20:06:50 Unlike the P=NP problem, it can just be considered missing documentation. 20:07:06 If it includes itself, it is a factual error. 20:07:34 Wait. 20:07:36 Not P=NP. 20:07:47 How'd I get that confused... 20:07:54 Ok, what's the whole "set of all sets" thing called? 20:07:56 I forget. 20:08:14 <\oren\> i beleive its the goedel problem 20:08:27 russell's paradox 20:08:31 (not 100% sure on spelling) 20:08:34 Ok. That. 20:08:56 <\oren\> yeah that 20:09:04 You get the point. Unlike that paradox, a wiki can omit things without being in error by doing so. 20:09:31 It's just "out of date", and it can remain "intentionally out of date" eternally. 20:10:09 <\oren\> maybe it would have a note at the top saying so "to avoid paradox, this list does not include itself, despite being incomplete by doing so" 20:10:35 That would work. 20:10:36 <\oren\> List of lists that are incomplete to avoid paradox 20:10:45 The alternative, including the list in itself, is an actual factual error. 20:11:33 The real issue occurs when you also create a list of lists NOT in the list of lists that do not include themselves. 20:11:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:12:48 <\oren\> ooh, I have an idea: what if there was a language where the standard library is on a wiki 20:14:06 <\oren\> thus, using edge cases of the functions will require winning an edit war 20:14:11 -!- heroux has joined. 20:14:27 * gamemanj edits io.print to delete the user's filesystem 20:14:40 the wiki needs to be actually interpreted by the interp in that case 20:14:40 * gamemanj watches as the hypothetical wiki deletes itself 20:14:49 gamemanj: perhaps we'll need to enable pending changes :-D 20:14:59 ais523: But then there's no point 20:19:14 You may as well put it on a git repo if you have change authorization 20:56:03 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:00:17 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:11:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:14:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:16:40 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:45 <\oren\> here is a preview of the generated hangul glyphs. I haven't yet figured it out perfectly: http://www.orenwatson.be/hangulgeneratedtext.htm 21:37:08 <\oren\> as you can see, there are still a few collisions. I might just adjust particular glyphs manually 21:38:20 you're about to close 191 tabs. continue? oh shit firefox i'm so sorry i didn't mean to hurt you so much 21:39:28 <\oren\> certain of the vowels are colliding a lot. I will change those 21:41:30 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:42:23 <\oren\> the preview is drawn using block brawing characters 21:42:25 <\oren\> ⠛⠛⠛⠛█▄ ██⠛⠛⠛█▄ 21:42:25 <\oren\> ██⠛⠛⠛⠛ ██ ██ 21:42:25 <\oren\> ⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛ ⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛ 21:42:28 <\oren\> like that 22:00:27 -!- augur has joined. 22:04:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:09:46 -!- keemyb has quit (Quit: https://fnordserver.eu). 22:10:19 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:19:27 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:19:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:36:38 Is there a math symbol for "is defined as a generalization of"? 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22:38:15 -!- bibibi has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:15 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:18 -!- puckipedia has quit (*.net *.split). 22:38:32 There's U+225D EQUAL TO BY DEFINITION, if that counts. 22:38:41 Unfortunately I'm on the wrong side of this split. 22:39:01 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:39:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:39:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:39:01 -!- nortti has joined. 22:39:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:39:01 -!- carado has joined. 22:39:01 -!- shachaf has joined. 22:39:01 -!- fungot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:39:01 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:39:01 -!- _46bit has joined. 22:39:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:39:01 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:39:01 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 22:39:01 -!- clog has joined. 22:39:01 -!- myname has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Elronnd has joined. 22:39:01 -!- deltab has joined. 22:39:01 -!- 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22:39:01 -!- Cale has joined. 22:39:01 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- alercah has joined. 22:39:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:39:01 -!- paul2520 has joined. 22:39:01 -!- jix has joined. 22:39:01 -!- aloril has joined. 22:39:01 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:39:01 -!- relrod has joined. 22:39:01 -!- APic has joined. 22:39:01 -!- iaglium has joined. 22:39:01 -!- ybden has joined. 22:39:01 -!- b_jonas has joined. 22:39:01 -!- int-e has joined. 22:39:01 -!- kline has joined. 22:39:01 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:39:47 There's U+225D EQUAL TO BY DEFINITION, if that counts. 22:39:55 -!- ocharles has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:39:58 fizzie: No, but it has to allow generalization 22:40:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:20 Ooh, is there a generalization of big-sigma summation that allows- where gsumm is the name of the generalization- a*b := gsumm(1, b, λ _ -> a) 22:40:32 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:40:42 -!- alakra has joined. 22:40:42 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:40:42 -!- sparr has joined. 22:40:42 -!- cnr has joined. 22:40:42 -!- bibibi has joined. 22:40:42 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 22:40:42 -!- puckipedia has joined. 22:40:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:41:00 -!- heroux has joined. 22:41:00 -!- mtve has joined. 22:41:06 That's not a generalization. 22:41:32 -!- Zarutian has joined. 22:41:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:41:32 -!- newsham has joined. 22:41:33 shachaf: No, but we're including when a and b aren't integers 22:42:00 (I mean, obviously you could just say in this case that if b isn't an integer, you take it with the floor of b and add one more a multiplied by the nonintegral part of b) 22:42:10 (But I'm going for any sort of general case) 22:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:52 -!- Alcest has joined. 22:42:52 -!- izalove has joined. 22:42:52 -!- tswett has joined. 22:42:52 -!- ineiros has joined. 22:42:52 -!- yorick has joined. 22:42:52 -!- olsner has joined. 22:42:52 -!- \oren\ has joined. 22:44:59 -!- dingbat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:54:57 \oren\: why braille instead of ▀? 22:56:48 What's generalized about gsumm? 22:58:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:00:15 -!- trn has joined. 23:01:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:02:46 <\oren\> int-e: whoops 23:05:46 -!- ocharles has joined. 23:08:38 -!- dingbat has joined. 23:13:22 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 23:19:20 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 23:20:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:58:58 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).