←2016-09-27 2016-09-28 2016-09-29→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:02:43 <hppavilion[1]> The Principal Quotient Distance of two strings s and t is the minimum number of steps it requires to turn s into t using only insertions of a contiguous block of characters and deletions of contiguous blocks of characters (so 'abcdefg' and 'abfg' have a distance of 1, as you delete the characters 2..4)
00:04:00 <hppavilion[1]> The principal quotients of s and t (s/t) are the strings that have the smallest Principal Quotient Distance from the original string (that is, they all have the same distance)
00:05:25 <hppavilion[1]> So while 'acdabd' is a quotient of 'abcdabcd' and 'bc' ('abcdabcd'/'bc'), it is not a principal quotient because it requires 2 steps (delete the first 'b' and second 'c') while 'adabcd' and 'abcdad' only require 1
00:14:29 <hppavilion[1]> boily: If that makes any sense?
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00:30:12 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to have created a rudimentary encoding that gives a unique name to each edit distance function
00:30:45 <hppavilion[1]> Levenshtein is called 'dis'
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00:36:05 <boily> hppavilion[1]: it makes sense.
00:36:18 * boily was momentarily distracted by a kimchi howto video >_>'...
00:42:26 <hppavilion[1]> The PQD is DI
00:43:16 <hppavilion[1]> (case aims to be significant, but isn't necessarily- usually, uppercase is the same as lowercase, but for substrings instead of single characters)
00:46:34 <hppavilion[1]> (these examples are yet to show the weighting option, but there is one)
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01:24:36 <izalove> yo momma is so fat she was reincarnated as 2 people
01:24:37 <izalove> namaste
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01:58:59 <hppavilion[1]> Is there such thing as a TRInomial coefficient?
02:02:14 <hppavilion[1]> (With trico(n, k) presumably being equal to the coefficient of the term x^k in (x^2+x+1)^n, or something like that)
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02:13:11 <hppavilion[1]> Is there anything above uncountable? A set is uncountable if there is no way to inject it into the naturals
02:13:51 <hppavilion[1]> The reals are the simplest uncountable set (well, by "simplest" I mean "the one I know"), but is it possible to have a set that cannot be injected into the reals?
02:18:09 <izalove> the sets of all sets of real numbers
02:18:19 <izalove> the set of all sets of real numbers
02:20:16 <izalove> for any set S, the set of all the subsets of S is larger than S
02:29:23 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: Oooh, nice
02:29:51 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: Are you sure that that's true of infinite sets?
02:30:05 <izalove> yes, it's cantor's theorem
02:30:08 <hppavilion[1]> OK
02:31:21 <hppavilion[1]> Is triplethink possible?
02:40:37 <hppavilion[1]> (it would only be possible if there are 3 statements a, b, c where a↯b, b↯c, and a↯c (where ↯ is the contradiction conjunction, which could probably just be xor in retrospect))
02:40:56 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm sure there's a way to do this using ->, but I don't feel like finding it)
02:49:43 <quintopia> @tell boily POSTCARD GET. I shall resend this package ASAP--you better pick it up this time!
02:49:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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03:17:38 <ais523> `factor 1152
03:17:47 <HackEgo> 1152: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3
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03:26:18 <lifthrasiir> `factor -7
03:26:19 <HackEgo> factor: invalid option -- '7' \ Try `factor --help' for more information.
03:26:29 <lifthrasiir> oh. that *is* informative
03:26:31 <lifthrasiir> `factor -- -7
03:26:32 <HackEgo> factor: unrecognized option '-- -7' \ Try `factor --help' for more information.
03:26:34 <lifthrasiir> :(
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03:45:31 <hppavilion[1]> NASA changed the zodiac (or, more accurately, they accounted for shifts in the earth that we hadn't used yet)
03:45:46 <hppavilion[1]> There's a thirteenth sign now- Ophiuchus- and I'm apparently that
03:46:04 <hppavilion[1]> Yay! I fall under a different bullshittial classification from before!
03:46:34 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: B1875 vs J2000?
03:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: I honestly don't know what that means
03:46:59 <hppavilion[1]> Is J2000 "julian in 2000"?
03:47:05 <lifthrasiir> equinox, yeah something like that
03:47:23 <lifthrasiir> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox_(celestial_coordinates)
03:47:56 <ais523> does the discovery of the thirteenth sign of the zodiac fall under both types of esoteric at once?
03:48:18 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, definitely
03:48:35 <hppavilion[1]> (I could also be Scorpio; I'm not really clear on what's inclusive and what's exclusive)
03:49:14 <lifthrasiir> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Constellations_ecliptic_equirectangular_plot.svg
03:49:17 <lifthrasiir> oh, I like this visualization
03:50:15 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus#Ophiuchus_and_the_zodiac
03:50:22 <hppavilion[1]> (My birthday is on 11-29, which is the turnover from Scorpio to Ophiuchus)
03:50:27 <hppavilion[1]> ty
03:51:05 <hppavilion[1]> No, I'm calling it a sign
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04:07:29 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: You know what'd be really fun?
04:07:32 <hppavilion[1]> Axiomatic astrology
04:07:45 <hppavilion[1]> Start with a set of basic assumptions and all astrology is mathematically derived from there
04:07:53 <hppavilion[1]> Still bullshit, but now it's FORMAL bullshit
04:23:06 <hppavilion[1]> 256.0039061903972 = The Silicon Mean
04:23:46 <ais523> I'm vaguely thinking of something that changes the number of degrees in a circle over time to allow for the changes in the Earth's orbit
04:23:59 <ais523> maybe we should define the number of degrees in a full circle to be equal to the number of days in a year
04:24:08 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Um, we're using radians hth
04:24:13 <ais523> and assert, without proof, that it was originally exactly 360
04:24:29 <ais523> but changed over time
04:24:31 <hppavilion[1]> And 2.0952939852239147 is the metagolden mean (the golden mean-th metallic mean)
04:24:36 <ais523> thus requiring occasional "leap degrees"
04:24:40 <hppavilion[1]> YES
04:25:55 <ais523> we should probably be using sidereal days rather than solar days, come to think of it
04:26:12 <ais523> more appropriate for astrology /and also/ harder to understand
04:26:39 <hppavilion[1]> (so (((1+sqrt(5))/2)+sqrt(((1+sqrt(5))/2)**2+4))/2)
04:31:22 <ais523> heh, there's also such a thing as anti-sidereal time
04:31:55 <ais523> unlike sidereal time, which is designed to be appropriate for astronomy
04:32:16 <ais523> anti-sidereal time is explicitly intended to be arbitrary and not match any natural astronomical cycles
04:33:18 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Oooh, nice
04:33:25 <hppavilion[1]> 1.7320508075688772 is the Golden Root-Mean-Square
04:55:47 <\oren\> is may 10th still a Tauros?
04:57:02 <\oren\> what calendar will Elon Musk's colonists use?
04:58:52 <ais523> \oren\: darian calendar, probably?
05:06:57 <hppavilion[1]> I kind of want to become a weather geek, just for http://xkcd.com/1324/
05:07:28 <hppavilion[1]> @metar MRI
05:08:12 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
05:08:15 <hppavilion[1]> @metar PAMR
05:08:17 <lambdabot> PAMR 280353Z 28004KT 10SM CLR 09/01 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP238 T00940006
05:08:41 <hppavilion[1]> Yep.
05:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> I still don't understand METAR
05:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> I assume @metar gives it in the international format rather than North American?
05:15:04 <hppavilion[1]> Or would a North American airport give North American metars?
05:15:48 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, yep, looks NA
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06:32:15 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm wondering when D-modules enter into all this.
06:32:24 <shachaf> Taneb can probably help me out.
06:32:51 <shachaf> Taneb: Do you like derivatives?
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07:19:26 <shachaf> oerjan, Cale: Maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi-Civita_symbol is what I want.
07:21:43 <shachaf> Maybe not.
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08:38:00 <izalove> is there a way to force linux to swap stuff out to disk and free X bytes of ram?
08:39:33 <shachaf> You can swapoff completely.
08:39:39 <lifthrasiir> swapoff then swapon?
08:39:41 <shachaf> Er, wait.
08:39:44 <shachaf> I misread.
08:39:49 <shachaf> And maybe lifthrasiir misread too.
08:39:54 <izalove> :)
08:39:59 <lifthrasiir> ah *to disk*, yeah
08:40:05 <lifthrasiir> hmm, I don't know
08:40:17 <shachaf> Why would you want to?
08:41:08 <izalove> because i may need to run something that must actually stay in ram and firefox isn't as important
08:41:41 <lifthrasiir> izalove: cause thrashing then drop that process?
08:41:43 <shachaf> And the normal heuristics aren't good enough?
08:42:05 <fizzie> izalove: ptrace the process you care about, run a mlockall in it.
08:42:09 <lifthrasiir> in the extreme case where one process is filling the memory up it should move almost everything else into the disk
08:42:11 <shachaf> You can have a process mlock its memory if you want to be sure it's in RAM.
08:42:24 <lifthrasiir> provided that swap is enough
08:42:31 <lifthrasiir> (otherwise, well, OOM killer ensues)
08:42:53 <shachaf> Another thing you can do is get more RAM. RAM is so cheap.
08:42:56 <izalove> thanks for this
08:43:27 <shachaf> Even without mlock I assume that if a process just prefaults its pages, it won't do too badly for many workloads.
08:43:48 <Taneb> shachaf, I have not derivatived for many years
08:44:05 <shachaf> Maybe MAP_POPULATE does that?
08:44:33 <izalove> on an anonymous map?
08:45:13 <shachaf> Not sure whether that works.
08:45:50 <shachaf> https://github.com/aclements/thesis/blob/master/bench/mcorelib/block.c does it, at least.
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08:49:59 <izalove> mlockall with MCL_ONFAULT looks great
08:51:40 <fizzie> It's the "Hotel California" option.
08:52:00 <fizzie> You can fault in any time you like, but you can never page out.
08:52:35 <shachaf> fizzie: i see a hotel california in your future hth
08:53:11 <fizzie> I booked one of our corporate apartments for that, it's not a hotel.
08:53:38 <shachaf> A hotel would be a prodorate apartment, I guess.
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09:06:53 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x3131 0x3163
09:06:53 <HackEgo> ​ㄱㄲㄳㄴㄵㄶㄷㄸㄹㄺㄻㄼㄽㄾㄿ \ ㅀㅁㅂㅃㅄㅅㅆㅇㅈㅉㅊㅋㅌㅍㅎㅏ \ ㅐㅑㅒㅓㅔㅕㅖㅗㅘㅙㅚㅛㅜㅝㅞㅟ \ ㅠㅡㅢㅣ
09:09:33 <\oren\> `u8tbl 0x2732 0x2739
09:09:33 <HackEgo> ​✲✳✴✵✶✷✸✹
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11:55:59 <boily> `wisdom
11:56:05 <HackEgo> pawn//*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA*
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11:59:51 <boily> @massages-loud
11:59:51 <lambdabot> quintopia said 9h 10m 7s ago: POSTCARD GET. I shall resend this package ASAP--you better pick it up this time!
12:00:18 <boily> @tell quintopia QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAA! THE POSTCARD ARRIVED! (Didn't get mine yet though...)
12:00:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:00:53 <boily> @tell quintopia (Which is to be expected. I live in a postal blackhole, right in the middle of a ~4 million people metropolitan area.)
12:00:53 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:10:48 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/pawn
12:10:51 <HackEgo> fizzie evilipse oerjan
12:11:31 <boily> @ask evilipse hellipse. who are you? are you as evil as you claim to be?
12:11:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:11:47 <int-e> hmm, pawn on the 8th rank
12:14:10 <int-e> `? alice
12:14:11 <HackEgo> Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
12:14:37 <boily> P4a+
12:18:46 <boily> `? mad
12:18:49 <HackEgo> This wisdom entry was censored for being too accurate.
12:19:17 -!- boily has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented twice | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf".
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12:23:44 <FireFly> `? pawn
12:23:45 <HackEgo> ​*YOU* are a pawn. *MWAHAHAHAHA*
12:26:39 <int-e> `? queen
12:26:39 <HackEgo> queen? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:55:47 <Taneb> int-e, get to the other side of the board and we'll talk
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14:50:21 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_theorem#Multinomial_coefficients
14:50:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
14:56:24 <oerjan> `` factor -- -7
14:56:30 <HackEgo> factor: `-7' is not a valid positive integer
14:56:38 <oerjan> shocking
14:58:57 <moonythedwarf> moo
14:59:19 <FireFly> `factor 7
14:59:19 <HackEgo> 7: 7
14:59:54 * oerjan chases moonythedwarf off his lawn
15:20:14 <jeffl35> MOOnythedwarf
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15:29:07 <FireFly> dwarven cows in new york? that's silly
15:30:53 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
15:31:37 * FireFly dies
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15:58:44 * moonythedwarf digs up oerjan's garden again
16:00:19 * oerjan applies his saucepan ===\__/
16:00:40 * moonythedwarf hides from saucepan
16:01:03 <moonythedwarf> -js console.log("anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (:")
16:01:14 -!- otherbot has joined.
16:01:18 <moonythedwarf> -js console.log("anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (:")
16:01:18 <otherbot> anyways, can anyone break out of this sandbox? (: |
16:01:45 <oerjan> this is a good time to not know javascript.
16:01:55 <moonythedwarf> lol
16:17:50 <moonythedwarf> -rsc
16:17:50 <otherbot> Reloaded sandbox corescript
16:17:58 <moonythedwarf> -js util.inspect(global)
16:17:58 <otherbot> { [SyntaxError: Unexpected end of input] global: '[Circular]' }
16:20:33 <moonythedwarf> -rsc
16:20:34 <otherbot> Reloaded sandbox corescript
16:20:36 <moonythedwarf> -js util.inspect(global)
16:20:36 <otherbot> [object global] |
16:20:42 <moonythedwarf> -js util.format(global)
16:20:42 <otherbot> [object global] |
16:20:52 <moonythedwarf> -js console.log(util.format(global))
16:20:52 <otherbot> [object global] | {obuf: , console: [object Object], util: [object Object], global: [Cyclic object], process: [object Object], } |
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17:03:57 <moonythedwarf> wb ais523, wb Kaynato
17:05:02 <jeffl35> ...................................................................................................................................
17:05:19 <moonythedwarf> ?
17:05:32 <oerjan> ^ul ((.)S:^):^
17:05:40 <oerjan> eek no fungot
17:06:00 * moonythedwarf is already conteplating adding Underload to otherbot
17:06:04 <moonythedwarf> should i oerjan?
17:06:08 <ais523> `! underload ((.)S:^):^
17:06:09 <HackEgo> ​...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
17:06:11 <oerjan> well why not
17:10:08 <moonythedwarf> -reload
17:10:09 <otherbot> Reloading modules...
17:10:18 <moonythedwarf> -ul ((.)S:^):^
17:10:43 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:11:08 <ais523> moonythedwarf: there's an infinite loop in the program
17:11:09 <jeffl35> moonythedwarf: wai
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17:11:21 <ais523> so you'll need cutoffs for programs using infinite CPU/memory/stack
17:11:22 <jeffl35> WAI
17:11:27 <moonythedwarf> ais523: it timesout
17:11:28 <jeffl35> ais523: he does that
17:11:34 <jeffl35> but it just fcrashed
17:11:41 <ais523> moonythedwarf: you can write a program like this though
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17:12:03 <moonythedwarf> -reload
17:12:08 <jeffl35> moonythedwarf: it's dedd
17:12:16 <ais523> `! underload (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^
17:12:17 <HackEgo> ​-|--|----|--------|----------------|--------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:12:22 -!- otherbot has joined.
17:12:24 <ais523> that's evaluating powers of 2
17:12:36 <ais523> in unary
17:12:43 <ais523> and thus can use huge amounts of memory in a very short amount of time
17:12:55 <jeffl35> -ul (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^
17:12:58 <jeffl35> -list
17:12:58 <otherbot> jeffl35: echo ping pong eval flushq help list use store cash inv savecstate buy sell give kick ban unban op deop mode attack poke join part reload whois nick pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lolr ><>r js rsc ul
17:13:00 <otherbot>
17:13:05 <jeffl35> -pad (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^
17:13:06 <jeffl35> -ul
17:13:10 <jeffl35> -help ul
17:13:10 <otherbot> jeffl35: Run programs written in Underload
17:13:11 <otherbot>
17:13:16 <moonythedwarf> jeffl35: its single line
17:13:16 <jeffl35> uh ok
17:13:19 <jeffl35> -ul (-)(~:S(|)S:*~:^):^
17:13:25 <otherbot>
17:13:25 <jeffl35> -ping
17:13:25 <otherbot> pong
17:13:31 <moonythedwarf> oh its dieing
17:13:31 <jeffl35> not seeming to work
17:13:33 <jeffl35> lol
17:13:42 <ais523> -ul (test)S
17:13:43 -!- wanderman has joined.
17:13:47 <otherbot>
17:13:57 <jeffl35> otherbot
17:14:01 <moonythedwarf> hmm
17:14:09 <moonythedwarf> ais523: try again
17:14:13 <moonythedwarf> -ul (test)S
17:14:14 <ais523> -ul (test)S
17:14:18 <otherbot>
17:14:19 <otherbot>
17:14:20 <jeffl35> -reload
17:14:20 <otherbot> Reloading modules...
17:14:24 <moonythedwarf> well derpdederp
17:15:49 <moonythedwarf> -reload
17:15:50 <otherbot> Reloading modules...
17:15:52 <moonythedwarf> -ul (test)S
17:15:52 <otherbot> ​test
17:15:54 <moonythedwarf> there
17:15:55 <moonythedwarf> ^_^
17:15:57 <otherbot> ​test
17:16:12 <moonythedwarf> -reload
17:16:12 <otherbot> Reloading modules...
17:16:15 <moonythedwarf> -ul (test)S
17:16:15 <otherbot> ​test
17:16:34 <moonythedwarf> well thats that
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17:18:38 <moonythedwarf> wat
17:18:40 <moonythedwarf> y u die
17:18:49 <jeffl35> Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
17:18:58 -!- wanderman has joined.
17:19:06 <moonythedwarf> jeffl35: wtf?
17:19:16 -!- otherbot has joined.
17:19:38 <ais523> I assume that was in a vm?
17:19:46 <ais523> that sort of kernel panic normally is fairly fatal to IRC connections
17:19:52 <jeffl35> lol
17:20:01 -!- wanderman has quit (Client Quit).
17:20:02 <moonythedwarf> lol
17:23:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
17:25:06 -!- `^_^v has joined.
17:27:27 <jeffl35> # killall -SIGILL init & killall -SIGSEGV init
17:27:40 <jeffl35> rather interesting bug in systemd
17:27:51 <jeffl35> causes systemd to die and the system to crash
17:30:08 <moonythedwarf> `` killall -SIGILL init & killall -SIGSEGV init
17:30:09 <HackEgo> init(1): Operation not permitted \ init(285): Operation not permitted
17:30:27 <moonythedwarf> doesnt seem to do anything to Hackego's older software, so its a newer bug
17:32:16 <jeffl35> moonythedwarf: has to be root
17:32:19 <jeffl35> also has to be systemd
17:32:22 <jeffl35> `` ls -al /sbin/init
17:32:24 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 36992 Jul 14 2013 /sbin/init
17:32:28 <jeffl35> see
17:32:30 <jeffl35> it uses sysvinit
17:32:35 <jeffl35> `` ls /etc/systemd
17:32:36 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /etc/systemd: No such file or directory
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18:03:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:05:12 <quintopia> @tell boily reminder that i'll be at niagara in a week and a half.
18:05:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:05:26 -!- Reece` has joined.
18:05:54 <hppavilion[1]> @metar pamr
18:05:54 <lambdabot> PAMR 281653Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 01/M03 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP280 T00111028
18:09:07 <fizzie> jeffl35: The HackEgo init process is actually https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/src/tip/init.c
18:09:16 <fizzie> And is completely unrelated to whatever is visible at /sbin/init.
18:09:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
18:10:44 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56S4_V3GJQ
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18:21:02 <irctc201> lucy123
18:21:21 <irctc201> anybody out there?
18:21:33 <myname> huh?
18:22:00 <irctc201> is this an esoteric chat?
18:22:14 <shachaf> `welcome irctc201
18:22:15 <HackEgo> irctc201: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
18:23:04 <irctc201> how does this work? first timer
18:23:44 <shachaf> It sounds like you've already figured out how it works.
18:25:08 -!- irctc201 has quit (Quit: Page closed).
18:25:26 <shachaf> `? histogram
18:25:27 <HackEgo> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
18:25:56 <shachaf> I thought a histogram was a message sent backward in time.
18:49:26 <moonythedwarf> oh newcomer?
18:56:51 <moonythedwarf> hi shachaf
18:57:52 -!- Kaynato has joined.
18:57:59 <moonythedwarf> wb
18:58:46 <moonythedwarf> -ul (test)S
18:58:46 <otherbot> ​test
18:59:33 <moonythedwarf> -rsc
18:59:33 <otherbot> Reloaded sandbox corescript
18:59:35 -!- Menphis has joined.
18:59:42 <moonythedwarf> -js util.format("\r\n")
18:59:42 <otherbot> { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] } }
18:59:50 <moonythedwarf> -js console.log(util.format("\r\n"))
18:59:51 <otherbot> | |
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19:30:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
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19:35:55 <ais523> -js var x; while (1) { x = [x] }
19:35:56 <otherbot> { [Error: Script execution timed out.] global: '[Circular]' }
19:36:06 <ais523> that's a very short timeout
19:38:42 * moonythedwarf checks
19:38:56 <moonythedwarf> ais523: exactly one second
19:39:04 <moonythedwarf> -reload
19:39:04 <otherbot> Reloading modules...
19:39:43 <ais523> -js var x="a"; while(1) { x = x + x }
19:39:43 <otherbot> { [RangeError: Invalid string length] global: '[Circular]' }
19:41:09 * moonythedwarf pokes otherbot and applys a 2 second timeout
19:41:59 <ais523> -js function x() { x(); x(); } x()
19:41:59 <otherbot> { [RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded] global: '[Circular]' }
19:42:16 <ais523> OK, it looks like there are limits on many of the common tricks used to blow up memory
19:45:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:47:42 <moonythedwarf> :)
19:53:00 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:53:11 <moonythedwarf> g/buffer 3
19:53:32 * moonythedwarf wonders if ais523 will come up with a exploit for it
19:58:18 <moonythedwarf> -pyc print 1+1
19:58:19 <otherbot> ​2 |
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20:11:27 <ais523> moonythedwarf: I don't know enough JavaScript really
20:13:05 <shachaf> ais523: Did you ever write up the rules to your game?
20:13:15 <shachaf> I think you were planning to do it once.
20:13:16 <ais523> shachaf: I started a writeup
20:13:23 <ais523> but there are still some things I'm unsure about
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20:46:43 <wob_jonas> Apparently "finale" is pronounced /"fIn@li:/. I don't understand how English spelling works.
20:48:58 <ais523> it doesn't, mostly
20:49:31 <ais523> the "a" in "finale" is definitely an "ar" sound even though that's inconsistent with every other spelling rule I know
20:50:12 <wob_jonas> I'm more bothered by the /i:/
20:50:16 <wob_jonas> but they're correlated
20:50:53 <wob_jonas> ah yes, you're right
20:51:21 <wob_jonas> wait, I'm wrong
20:51:26 <wob_jonas> I gave the wrong pronunciation
20:53:54 <wob_jonas> the dictionary says /fI"na:li/ (Br), /fI"n{li/ (Am)
20:53:58 <wob_jonas> that still doesn't make sense
20:54:02 <wob_jonas> but in a different way
20:55:15 <wob_jonas> where /i/ in this dictionary is an abbreviation meaning it's pronounced as either /i:/ or /I/ depending on the dialect
20:55:29 <wob_jonas> and typically /i:/ in american
20:56:01 <wob_jonas> so it doesn't make much sense to use it when there are separate british and american pronunciations give, but that's still what the dictionary says
20:56:34 <int-e> The spelling is largely independent from the pronunciation, at least as far as vowels are concerned.
20:56:37 <wob_jonas> at least if the stress is on the second syllable, that explains why the first syllable has /I/
20:56:52 <Bowserinator> lol thought I was in ##english for a sec
20:56:56 <wob_jonas> let me check if my Oxford dict gives a pronunciation
20:57:16 <ais523> Bowserinator: here we mostly laugh at English rather than trying to justify it :-)
20:57:18 <wob_jonas> Bowserinator: nah, that channel rarely talks about English
20:57:24 <int-e> Actually, is English a stressful language? :-P
20:57:37 <Bowserinator> not really
20:57:54 <wob_jonas> int-e: they told me it is supposed to be one
20:58:02 <Bowserinator> english speakers are lazy, you don't need to move your mouth that much
20:58:12 <Bowserinator> although for some reason if you're slightly off they won't understand you.
20:59:34 <ais523> int-e: there are a few places in English where the meaning of a word changes depending on stress
20:59:38 <ais523> "refuse", for example
20:59:50 <ais523> although it's hard to construct a sentence in which both meanings work
20:59:55 <wob_jonas> the oxford dictionary says /fI"nA:li/ or /fI"nA:leI/ which is strange
21:00:10 <wob_jonas> wait, "refuse"? really?
21:00:22 <Taneb> ais523, iirc in those situations, a stress on the last syllable is a verb, on the first syllable a noun
21:00:26 <ais523> Taneb: indeed
21:00:27 <Taneb> wob_jonas, as a noun it means trash
21:00:30 <APic> Freeze.
21:00:32 <ais523> that's why it's hard to work it into a sentence
21:00:38 <wob_jonas> Taneb: right, but how does the stress change?
21:00:47 <Taneb> REfuse
21:01:00 <wob_jonas> I know there are a few words where the stress changes
21:01:10 <ais523> wob_jonas: REF-yuse is the noun, ree-FYUSE is the verb
21:01:11 <wob_jonas> but I didn't know "refuse" is one of them
21:01:27 <ais523> strangely enough, the first e is short when stressed and long when nonstressed
21:02:02 <APic> Fuses > *
21:02:31 * moonythedwarf is making a gravity based 2d esolang that, if minimized, is reversable
21:02:36 <ais523> I guess "to refuse" could mean "to replace the fuse in"
21:02:47 <ais523> moonythedwarf: is it uncomputable?
21:02:50 * wob_jonas checks the dictionary
21:02:59 <APic> ais523: That would fit.
21:03:07 <Taneb> ais523, it's said that the easiest way to tell the difference between a plumber and a scientist is to ask them to pronounce unionise
21:03:17 <ais523> Taneb: :-)
21:03:35 <ais523> but the scientists more commonly use "deionise" I think, unless both words exist with different meanings
21:03:52 <Taneb> Possibly it was "unionised"
21:04:04 <ais523> besides, the stress is in the same place in both words
21:04:08 <ais523> just the syllable boundaries are different
21:04:14 * APic thought of „unionized“ first.
21:04:20 <APic> s/zed/ze/
21:04:34 <ais523> un-i - on -ise versus un - i-on - ise
21:04:43 <ais523> actually the syllable boundaries are the same too, but the syllable /spacing/ is different?
21:04:49 <wob_jonas> it says "refuse" as a verb is /rI"fju:z/, which is how I'd pronounce it too, and "refuse" as a noun is /"rEfju:s/. it's strange that they differ; either pronunciation would make sense separately, but together they don't.
21:04:49 <ais523> what sort of language is this?!
21:05:06 <APic> ,o0(Ion Laser)
21:05:39 <int-e> wob_jonas: how do you pronounce infinite and finite?
21:05:42 <APic> Strangely my Dictionaries only have that one in English-Croatian FreeDict
21:05:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: I do know those differ
21:05:52 <APic> Not in the other English-Foo-Dictionaries i have installed
21:05:57 <Taneb> int-e, I pronounce finite deliberately incorrectly
21:05:59 <APic> („ion laser“)
21:06:05 <wob_jonas> it's on my list, together with cycle - bicycle, and sign - signal
21:06:39 <Taneb> (definite and infinite rhyme, finite rhymes with I knight)
21:06:46 <ais523> Taneb: how? do you change both syllables to match "infinite" or just one of them, and if so which?
21:07:03 <Taneb> ais523, to match infinite
21:07:22 <wob_jonas> so "finite" is /"faI.naIt/ and "infinite" is /"InfInIt/ or /"InfIn@t/ I think
21:07:31 <ais523> Taneb: also definite and infinite don't rhyme, it's a tertiary rhyme so you need to match the last two syllables and the vowel and trailing consonants of the third-last
21:07:43 <ais523> whereas the vowel in the third-last syllable doesn't match there
21:07:48 <ais523> they are pretty lose though
21:07:49 <ais523> *close
21:07:54 <wob_jonas> ais523: "unionise" is four syllables? I'd have said it as three syllables
21:07:55 <Taneb> ...I would use them in a poem
21:08:24 <ais523> wob_jonas: the "io" is kind-of dubious as a dipthong
21:08:31 <wob_jonas> something like /"jUnj,@,naIz/
21:08:44 <ais523> you can try to pronounce it as one but the syllable gap's audible pretty much however fast you try
21:09:10 <wob_jonas> ais523: no, there's no diphtong because I pronunce it with a /nj/ consonant
21:09:18 <Taneb> ais523, I sometimes pronounce the plumber's way was yoonyunise
21:09:34 <ais523> wob_jonas: isn't that English "ng"? or am I confusing it with something else?
21:09:40 <wob_jonas> maybe it's rather /"jU,nj@,naIz/
21:09:48 <ais523> "ungeonise" isn't how the word's pronounced at all
21:10:03 <APic> In German i would separate „unionize“ as „un-i-o-nize“ probably ;=P
21:10:05 <Taneb> ais523, phonetic j is a consonant y I think
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21:10:37 <ais523> Taneb: "ny" isn't possible without a syllable boundary in English I think
21:10:45 <ais523> as a consonant
21:10:54 <Taneb> ais523, that might depend on your dialect
21:10:58 <ais523> it's possible in Russian (e.g. "nyet"), but I don't think we use that sound in English
21:11:04 <int-e> ais523: new?
21:11:18 <ais523> int-e: actually, I'll buy that
21:11:24 <ais523> not quite identical but close enough
21:11:27 <APic> It would actually be interesting to let a Program create the german Separation for „unionize“
21:11:28 <ais523> can you do it at the end of a syllable?
21:11:47 <ais523> I'm wondering if "new" has the y sound at the start of the vowel rather than the end of the consonant
21:12:03 <ais523> I mean, "ew" has a y sound too
21:12:05 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't think it's "ng", but maybe. /nj/ is actually /J/ or /ɲ/, a palatal nasal. some English speakers (including me) pronunce it in "new" and "news"
21:12:14 <ais523> which implies that it's part of the vowel
21:12:27 <wob_jonas> though more than half of the English speakers pronounce "new" with just an /n/ instead
21:12:32 <ais523> "ewe" and "you" famously have the same pronunciation
21:12:50 <ais523> wob_jonas: I think I pronounce "new" as "n" followed by "you"
21:12:51 <int-e> I'd suggest nuclear, but that would only make matters worse.
21:13:15 <wob_jonas> ais523: how do you pronounce "during"?
21:13:21 <Taneb> ais523, ...my mouth feels different saying ewe and you but they sound the same
21:13:22 <wob_jonas> and "Tuesday"?
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21:13:38 <wob_jonas> I think there's another word with "n" too, but I can't remember
21:13:52 <ais523> wob_jonas: "during" has a dipthong or maybe tripthong on the u for me
21:13:58 <wob_jonas> oh right, "revenue"
21:14:06 <ais523> ee - oo - ur
21:14:32 <ais523> "revenue" ends in "new" for me
21:14:56 <wob_jonas> yes, I expect "revenue" to end in "new" for most people
21:15:50 <Taneb> ais523, I either pronounce during like you do or with a like dj consonant at the beginning and just a oo-ur or maybe just an ur
21:16:18 <Taneb> (I have a bizarre accent at times)
21:16:32 <ais523> actually, I think I've come to a conclusion: consonant y doesn't exist in my accent
21:16:42 * APic is installing „texlive“
21:16:45 <ais523> it's just a different vowel from vowel y (which is a long i in most accents)
21:16:45 <Taneb> (I blame my Dutch Australian/not quite Geordie heritage)
21:17:00 <wob_jonas> ais523: can't we say it's a semi-vowel or glide?
21:17:42 <ais523> I can buy glide
21:17:54 <ais523> it's notably different from semi-vowels like l or n though
21:17:56 <wob_jonas> ais523: so you don't pronounce a consonant in "your" or "yes" or "York" or "yawn"?
21:18:18 <wob_jonas> or in "mayonaise"?
21:18:24 <moonythedwarf> @@
21:18:25 <wob_jonas> wait, how do they spell "mayonaise" in English?
21:18:27 <moonythedwarf> -
21:18:29 <moonythedwarf> o 1
21:18:30 <ais523> wob_jonas: all of those are vowel transitions
21:18:31 <moonythedwarf> @Hello92+4*84*World92+3*\ .
21:18:31 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
21:18:31 <ais523> mayonnaise I think, not sure though
21:18:33 <moonythedwarf> \ @
21:18:35 <moonythedwarf> $?
21:18:37 <moonythedwarf> ~
21:18:39 <moonythedwarf> thats the Hello, World! program
21:18:39 <wob_jonas> mayonnaise, yes
21:18:49 <wob_jonas> and it doesn't even have a y sound in it
21:19:04 <wob_jonas> ok, forget mayonnaise then
21:20:14 <moonythedwarf> derp replace the o with a '
21:20:20 <wob_jonas> ais523: anyway, I think it is possible for an English dialect to actually not have a y consonant, only a semi-vowel
21:20:52 <ais523> a semivowel is something that you can hold indefinitely despite not being a traditional vowel
21:21:06 * APic is installing texlive-lang-german
21:21:06 <APic> Narf
21:21:11 <APic> That one took me long to figure out ☺
21:21:12 <ais523> I don't think you can hold a consonantal-y
21:22:25 <wob_jonas> ais523: no, a semivowel is a vowel that doesn't make a whole syllable, but is next to a vowel and forms a glide with it. if you hold the same sound long, then it's not a semi-vowel, but a vowel. that's not a problem, many words can be pronounced either with a vowel or a semi-vowel.
21:23:11 <ais523> so how would you react to nonwords like "plllfft" which are pronounceable despite not having any vowels?
21:23:29 <ais523> English tends not to use such words but that's not for any particular reason AFAIK
21:24:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't know, because I don't speak czech, so I can't pronounce those.
21:24:37 <wob_jonas> but they say that in some languages, the "r" and the "l" can be syllable nucleuses, and that in some English dialects too
21:24:44 <wob_jonas> not in my dialect though
21:24:55 <ais523> wob_jonas: it's simply a physical matter of pronounciation mechanics, not a dialect thing
21:25:02 <ais523> it's physically possible to prolong an l or an f indefinitely
21:25:05 <ais523> like it is with vowels
21:25:09 <ais523> just the letters aren't normally used like that
21:25:27 <ais523> there are a few English words that use the principle, but mostly onomatopoeia like "mmm"
21:25:43 <wob_jonas> ais523: it is a dialect thing, because I don't pronunce it in any English word, but some people do in some English words
21:26:02 <wob_jonas> so I don't see why it wouldn't be a dialect thing
21:26:07 <APic> unio-ni-ze
21:26:11 <APic> lol
21:26:14 <APic> Very Fail
21:26:27 <wob_jonas> some languages require that in some words, namely at least croatian and czech, both of which are infamous of vowel-less tongue-twisters
21:26:29 <APic> But what do i expect using a Hyphenator for the wrong Language? ☺
21:26:54 <wob_jonas> APic: that hyphenation does look right
21:27:00 <ais523> wob_jonas: it's merely a fact of the phoneme in question
21:27:03 <ais523> that it can be prolonged
21:27:09 <wob_jonas> wait wait
21:27:11 <ais523> this is independent of what words it does or doesn't appear in
21:27:12 <wob_jonas> unio-ni-ze?
21:27:14 <wob_jonas> that's wrong
21:27:16 <APic> Yes.
21:27:21 <wob_jonas> sorry
21:27:23 <APic>
21:29:16 <ais523> I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable hyphenating the plumber version of that word anywhere
21:29:30 <ais523> (the scientist version hyphenates quite neatly after un-)
21:29:36 <wob_jonas> which one is the plumber version?
21:29:42 <Taneb> If I was going to hyphenate the plumber version it'd have to be union-ize
21:29:43 <wob_jonas> and the scientist version?
21:30:57 <ais523> wob_jonas: plumber is "unionize" as in "create au nion"
21:31:21 <ais523> scientist is "un-ionize" as in "remove ions from" (although "deionize", "reduce ions in", is more idiomatic, probably because you can't physically get all of them)
21:31:29 <ais523> * create a union
21:31:31 <wob_jonas> oh!
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21:31:58 <wob_jonas> so by scientist one, you mean the chemical science one, not the mathematics one
21:32:12 <ais523> yes
21:32:21 <wob_jonas> and how are these pronounced?
21:32:56 <ais523> no surprises if you can pronounce "ion" and "union"
21:34:41 <wob_jonas> well, I said the "plumbers'" one is /"jU,nj@,naIz/, but that's probably wrong, it is more likely /"ju:,nj@,naIz/ (I'll check the dictionary later),
21:35:25 <wob_jonas> and iirc "ion" is pronounced as /"ai,@n/, like iron, but I could be wrong, so it would be /Vn,"ai,@,naIz/
21:35:41 <wob_jonas> let me see the dictionary
21:36:54 <wob_jonas> the Longman says /"ju:nI@naIz/
21:38:30 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure if the /I@/ is meant to be the "here" diphtongue or two syllables in that
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21:38:59 <wob_jonas> probably two syllables, because it gives "u-ni-on-ize" as the syllables in the spelling
21:39:40 <wob_jonas> I wish oh well, not much difference between those
21:41:58 <wob_jonas> the Oxford gives no pronunciation, and has only the plumber meaning too
21:44:10 <wob_jonas> and yes, ion is pronounced as /"aI,@n/, I remembered right
22:04:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:05:58 <hppavilion[1]> Well, 5 stages of grief are kicking in. Now seems like a good time to study them.
22:06:04 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-poud
22:06:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 7h 15m 43s ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_theorem#Multinomial_coefficients
22:22:44 <moonythedwarf> doot
22:22:51 <moonythedwarf> -pyc
22:22:52 <otherbot> ​Argument expected for the '-c' option | usage: /bin/pypy-c [options] | Try `/bin/pypy-c -h` for more information. | [Subprocess exit code: 2] |
22:22:54 <moonythedwarf> derp
22:23:14 * moonythedwarf curses the enter bar for being too close to a diffrent character
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22:34:37 <int-e> ']\
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22:42:06 <moonythedwarf> hi int-e
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23:01:21 -!- Menphis has joined.
23:01:23 <moonythedwarf_> wb & wb
23:01:30 <moonythedwarf_> & wb
23:04:22 <hppavilion[1]> helloonythedwarf_...
23:09:16 -!- Kaynato has joined.
23:18:52 <moonythedwarf_> -js 1+1
23:18:52 <otherbot> 2
23:18:53 <otherbot> { obuf: '', | console: { log: [Function] }, | util: {}, | global: '[Circular]', | process: { exit: [Function] } }
23:42:11 <hppavilion[1]> One of my teaqers from last year died yesterday...
23:42:29 <hppavilion[1]> Ʃe was... 20s, MAYBE early 30s.
23:42:34 <hppavilion[1]> I just found out today.
23:46:23 <hppavilion[1]> Ʃe was very nice, ðe kind of person who'd acknowledge my terrible jokes and was very accommodatiŋ when I broke ðe unspoken rules (e.g. "Don't interrupt people")... ʃe was ðe one who used segments from What If? as homework...
23:47:50 -!- shachaf has left.
23:47:53 <moonythedwarf_> your text is messed up.
23:48:05 <moonythedwarf_> are you not using ASCII/UTF-8?
23:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> moonythedwarf_: I fall back on my crazy bonus letter alphabet occasionally. I have to consciously tell myself to type with normal english on #esoteric
23:58:02 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:59:09 <hppavilion[1]> Helloerjan
23:59:33 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Is the 'j' in 'oerjan' a /j/ sound? )
23:59:52 <oerjan> yep
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