00:04:26 -!- adu has joined. 00:11:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:15:16 Huh. 00:15:27 Ada Lovelace was the (legitimate) offspring of Lord Byron 00:15:33 The Epitaph to a Dog guy. 00:15:35 Cool. 00:29:33 -!- boily has joined. 00:29:44 `wisdom 00:29:45 caps lock//CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES 00:37:27 -!- MDude has joined. 00:37:51 fungot: is CAO down? 00:37:52 boily: a. i don't think i answer those, ihope. i yield to you. 00:37:58 -!- MDead has joined. 00:37:59 fungot: damn. 00:37:59 boily: i just don't like how... weird... and doesn't make a difference yes? says who??? fnord ( car list) 00:38:13 fungot: well, I like that server. that's the closest one. 00:38:13 boily: i dont think i have now spend more time typing than thinking, i'm doing work"? i'm impressed if you think about this in the mzscheme compiler manual 00:38:57 fungot: no, I think in French. messemble que depuis le temps c't'assez évident... 00:38:57 boily: laml is neat, kipple, axo,...? yeah, i think. 00:39:14 fungot: no, a kipple is not French hth 00:39:56 -!- MDude has quit (Client Quit). 00:40:03 -!- MDead has quit (Client Quit). 00:40:27 -!- MDude has joined. 00:41:12 “It's not just you! http://crawl.akrasiac.org looks down from here.” thanks downforeveryoneorjustme.com! 00:41:41 boily: is "chicken" several of "chicke"? 00:42:26 -!- super_bender has joined. 00:42:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:43:30 hppavellon[1]. no, it undergoes vowel-mutation. singular is checkan. 00:43:32 -!- super_bender has quit (Client Quit). 00:43:38 hellørjan! do you mutate? 00:43:46 boily: Ah, but what's the dual? 00:43:56 chickenayim. 00:43:59 helloily! constantly! 00:44:06 very slowly, though. 00:44:16 . o O ( there seems to be a pun in there, but where... ) 00:44:34 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:44:36 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( We need an enhanced plural schema for english with distinct rules for infinite cardinals ) 00:44:55 it wasn't conscious, but _maybe_ you could say "constant" is the opposite of "mutating". 00:45:41 English also needs indefinite form- not singular or plural or dual; no grammatical number at all 00:46:24 So, like, if the schema is +ae, the indefinite of dog would be dogae, which means 1 (or should it be 0?) or more dog(s) 00:47:21 modified english is the brainfuck derivative of conlangs hth 00:51:20 except it's less easy to implement 00:52:05 that said, surprisingly many BF derivatives have non-nesting [] because the author couldn't figure out how to implement them 00:52:26 (in at least one case, this is for a good reason as the derivative was created to prove another language TC; it was replaced by a conditional goto) 00:54:05 which language is the most surprisingly TC? 00:54:23 oerjan: Well yeah... 00:54:47 boily: /// maybe? 00:55:08 (Oh my god #esoteric is discussing esolangs... weird...) 00:55:30 boily: Even better, which language is the most surprisingly ¬TC 00:57:13 oerjan: Though, I wasn't going for a conlang modifying english; more for making people use it under pain of glaring so it's just part of english 01:03:18 I want to create a company for which the name violates English order of adjectives... 01:03:45 @ssages? 01:03:45 Sorry, no messages today. 01:03:52 ais523: ^ >:) 01:04:02 that's cheating :-P 01:04:56 @messes? 01:04:56 Sorry, no messages today. 01:05:12 10:08 @messes-loud 01:05:30 @messages- 01:05:30 You don't have any messages 01:05:39 shachaf: FAIL 01:06:02 (i assume we're golfing) 01:06:19 Golfing what? 01:06:26 lambdabot commands 01:06:26 That question made no sense. 01:06:37 It was obvious what you were golfing. 01:07:02 I don't know why I wrote it. 01:07:06 The point was I wasn't golfing. 01:07:26 15:53:17 @messageese-loud 01:07:56 @messages-lousy 01:07:56 You don't have any messages 01:12:09 * boily needs his dose of crawl, fungot it! 01:14:36 Man, I love ///. 01:15:40 fungot? 01:15:40 oerjan: four files: fnord, which might be very sensitive to medications). 01:16:10 fungot: has boily been overusing you 01:16:10 oerjan: scheme48 has immutable objects in general. i'm spending a lot of work 01:17:09 @@ @messages- 01:17:09 Plugin `compose' failed with: user error (Unknown command: "messages-") 01:17:14 * boily pokes fungot 01:17:14 boily: would you /please/ stop playing with me... i am not sure whether they're _required_ to have constant time.... 01:17:23 BWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH :D 01:17:42 definitely overused. 01:20:32 Say. 01:20:53 Y'all know about MegaHAL. It's that one chatterbot you can download and play with, that was created in 1998. 01:21:29 Is there a more modern chatterbot that you can also download and train and run locally? 01:22:00 fungot hth 01:22:00 oerjan: someone drank all the milk again, have you got any nice stuff :) forthers would say that the branches are mutually exclusive sounds more restrictive than doing the 32-bit math in the first 01:22:26 fungot: i have coke zero 01:22:27 oerjan: i'm sure you can try ideologies, but be extremely rigid on the ones where you press combinations of keys are mutually exclusive in style. 01:23:15 fungot: I make a mean Hong Kong style milk tea, if you want to stay awake for the next 12 hours. 01:23:15 boily: it's so straight-forward i'm not even in that movie a dozen times. always the same. i think his solution is quite workable for individual use or in other words 01:24:49 welcome back, fungot 01:24:49 wob_jonas: or maybe ,trace fnord/ fnord/ images/ fnord 01:25:02 shachaf: btw i made `hurl hth 01:25:11 `? hurl 01:25:12 hurl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:25:39 `cat bin/hurl 01:25:40 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ 01:25:44 hurl hurl hur 01:26:01 `doag bin/hurl 01:26:04 2016-10-02 ` cp bin/{,h}url; sed -i \'11s/file/log/\' bin/hurl 01:26:07 it is the same as `url except for a single word 01:26:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:26:37 `url bin/hurl 01:26:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/hurl 01:26:48 `hurl bin/url 01:26:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin/url 01:27:33 are you invalidating all my dog work 01:28:23 does a pooch have the Buddha-nature? 01:28:25 shachaf: not necessarily. sometimes the log for a file is a bit too long to browse on irc, is all. 01:28:49 also the web browser seems to leave out obvious edits :( 01:28:53 are you invalidating all my dog work and all my spam work 01:29:16 YES BECAUSE I'M EVIL *MWAHAHAHA* 01:29:28 (sometimes you can't win so better go for the carnage) 01:29:42 \texrb *\rainbow{MWAHAHAHA}* 01:29:45 oops 01:29:47 * ybden plays with fungot 01:29:47 ybden: a very general answer; i'm looking for one that's simple to understand. 01:29:53 that's embarrassing 01:29:55 *MWAHAHAHA* 01:30:22 * ybden plays with fungot some more 01:30:22 ybden: probably someone's done one already 01:30:29 fungot: done one what? 01:30:29 ybden: " reiserfs the file system to die for! and especially to evaluate in your head, everywhere you need to duplicate the lines then. sorry, once again we return to a non-extended one would wipe away the original text :) 01:30:44 D: it was indeed a file system to die for, for some 01:31:02 fungot: you say some worrying things 01:31:02 ybden: oh, i'm just a coop stuck with the lamest parts of the pre-scheme source code for it 01:31:09 fungot: I see. 01:31:30 *silence* 01:33:02 ybdellon. once you reach the fungothreshold, he won't answer to you. somebody else has to summon him between runs. 01:33:02 boily: that was fast. almost at fnord packing up. hrmph.), sieni_. would you refer to is all part of the set! 01:33:45 Hmm, I want to call it rowg. But that's ambiguous between dowg and howg <-- drwg hth 01:34:01 oerjan: But that doesn't sound like "rogue". 01:34:58 shocking 01:39:38 fungot: are you a MegaHAL? 01:39:39 tswett: mmm sounds like it involves robotic breasts. college of engineering. 01:40:19 this bot is getting better and better every day 01:41:39 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:41:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:42:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:42:24 fungot, are you improving? 01:42:25 wob_jonas: 1 gregorr: bf8 isn't harmfull 01:42:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 01:43:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:43:21 Challenge: Produce a mathematical generalization of the 12 days of christmas 01:44:48 a for loop...? 01:45:16 fungot: uhm... you want to have, robotic breasts? 01:45:16 boily: then it rejects all functions that don't return, tco falls into place, though. do you plan to support paredit.el for xemacs as well? 01:47:23 izalove: No? 01:49:17 two nested for loops? 01:49:28 -!- adu has joined. 01:50:55 izalove: I'm looking for a generalization 01:53:49 what does that mean? 01:54:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: QUANDARY CHICKEN.). 01:56:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:57:21 hppavilion[1]! 01:57:29 adu! 01:58:06 I'm starting to hate LDAP 02:00:40 LDAP?? 02:01:30 yes 02:03:38 I need to organize the configuration of Servers, Flavors, Users, and Groups. 02:03:40 adu: What is LDAP 02:03:55 oh you don't know what it is 02:03:58 low density audio platform hth 02:04:14 "Lightweight Directory Access Protocol" 02:04:39 long and delicate pincers 02:06:17 shachaf: that's LADP 02:06:28 so it is 02:06:33 hppavilion[1]: are you a windows person? 02:06:41 are you a person? 02:06:44 Yes, unfortunately 02:06:50 izalove: THAT IS NOT YOUR DOMAIN TO KNOW 02:06:55 large distracted antwerp pooch 02:06:56 hppavilion[1]: ahh, then you might recognize "Active Directory" 02:06:59 * moonythedwarf runs around in circles 02:07:54 list detected active protocols 02:09:30 How to troll brits with numbers: Follow these rules: (1) If '0' is 'oh', then 1 is 'el', 5 is 'es'; say 'single oh' every time there's a zero (along with 'double oh'); express everything as its prime factorization 02:09:35 long distance argumentative parrot 02:10:05 hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with Active Directory? 02:10:07 That sounds like a good post for your Twitter account. 02:10:09 Nope 02:10:20 shachaf: I got blocked because I look like a bot, remember 02:10:26 hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with the concept of a "User" 02:10:34 adu: Yes. 02:10:40 Wouldn't it be great if C# supported generic generic parameters? 02:10:41 Should I just google LDAP? 02:10:46 hppavilion[1]: LDAP is a "User" Database 02:10:48 And so you continue the same behavior in IRC? 02:10:58 OK, I think I get it 02:11:01 shachaf: ...yes? 02:11:06 * moonythedwarf sends hppavilion[1] around in circles 02:11:09 :, 02:11:14 *:,( 02:11:23 public abstract class Monad> { public abstract M Join(M> input); ... } 02:11:52 You're ...ing return because you can't type it? 02:12:34 public abstract M Return(T input); 02:12:48 Serious question: Is there an equivalent to the FLA for HCNs? 02:13:10 (e.g. "all numbers can be expressed as a quotient of HCNs") 02:13:27 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:14:22 * tswett looks up what that stuff is on Wikipedia. 02:14:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_composite_number 02:14:35 By FLA, do you mean the Fundamental Theory of Arithmetic? 02:16:17 . o O ( /kickban hppavilion[1] Obvious bot ) 02:16:30 tswett: Theorem, but yes 02:17:20 Fundamental Law of Arithmetic, surely 02:17:47 The theorem is this: The positive naturals are a free commutative monoid generated by the primes under multiplication. 02:17:51 Oops, my fallibility is showing. 02:18:24 shachaf: damn it. I read as far as "the theorem is this" and decided to one-up you by giving *my* favorite statement of the theorem... 02:18:45 What is your statement, then? 02:19:03 And then I realized that what you said *is* my favorite statement (more or less). 02:19:16 OK 02:19:29 Here's how I like to phrase it: 02:19:46 "The commutative monoid of the positive integers under multiplication is a free commutative monoid." 02:20:14 Same thing, really. 02:20:48 Maybe I should have moved "under multiplication" nine words earlier. 02:22:21 I left out "generated by the primes" because you can just define the primes as being the generators. 02:22:48 You mean you can figure it out. 02:23:01 But the point of the theorem is that it's what you get after you figure it out. 02:24:24 shachaf: Oh, yes, FTA 02:24:46 tswett: You can fix that by becoming pope 02:25:04 Another thing I thought of offhand today: orders of composite numbers 02:25:12 I guess what I'm unintentionally suggesting is that you could first prove the FTA, and then use the FTA to define the prime numbers. 02:25:20 A first-order composite number is a prime number (...yeah, sorry) 02:25:40 "The positive integers under multiplication are a free commutative monoid. Define the prime numbers as the generators of this monoid." 02:25:43 Certainly, if you generate a free monoid from a countably infinite set, what you get is isomorphic to the positive naturals under multiplication. 02:25:45 An nth-order composite number is an (n-1)th-order composite number times a first-order composite number 02:26:08 But if you already know the positive naturals, and you already know the primes, then telling you that those primes in particular generate the positive naturals is pretty good. 02:26:13 hppavilion[1]: so an nth-order composite number is a number with exactly n prime factors? 02:26:33 (this is equivalent to saying that the composite order of a number is the cardinality of the bag of its prime factors) 02:26:36 tswett: Yes 02:26:39 Yeah, that. 02:27:53 Hm, is there a prime factorial function? Or, more accurately, there is a prime factorial function, but does it have any use? 02:27:54 x‽ = product({p : p ≤ x, p in |P}) 02:28:11 I think that's called the primorial function. 02:28:26 tswett: Really or in an #esoteric way? 02:28:34 Huh, yep 02:28:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial 02:28:47 Sylvan Primordial 02:28:58 "In general for a positive integer n {\displaystyle n} n, a primorial n # {\displaystyle n\#} {\displaystyle n\#} can also be defined, namely as the product of those primes ≤ n {\displaystyle n} n:" 02:29:03 I apologize for the wonky copy-paste. 02:29:43 hppavilion[1]: hey, I have a random question for you. 02:29:54 tswett: You may proceed 02:30:11 hppavilion[1]: do you have any thoughts as to where you want to start your career? 02:30:20 Like, software development, mathematics research, something else? 02:30:26 That question has a rather big assumption, doesn't it? 02:30:33 NO idea 02:31:15 shachaf: that hppavilion[1] wants to have a career? 02:31:24 I don't even know what a career is. 02:32:10 There's more potential for success in private sector dev, but I'm drawn to academics on... almost moral grounds 02:32:15 i,i not a career in the world 02:32:32 Your sense of morality has already been established to be very suspect. 02:32:43 hppavilion[1]: I kind of feel like I'm doomed to eventually go to grad school. 02:32:44 shachaf: Excellent 02:32:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iovoid * New user account 02:33:01 Uh oh. 02:33:04 (Also, I want to be Dr. Naþan, so...) 02:33:12 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:33:44 hppavilion[1]: I think my industry experience is going to be really valuable if I ever want to do business-oriented research. 02:33:55 Yep 02:34:14 It's easier to design a business-oriented programming language if you have experience doing business-oriented programming.. 02:34:55 (Apparently there are two conflicting definitions of primorial- one is what I said above, the other is the product of the first n primes. I'm already developing strong opinions on it.) 02:37:27 -!- adu has joined. 02:43:47 hppavilion[1]: I know. The primorial function should be a function PrimeCut -> N, where PrimeCut is the collection of all downward closed sets of prime numbers. 02:51:18 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, norway doesn't even have a legal minimum wage 02:52:08 neither does italy 02:53:07 I think it is OK a minimum wage should not be needed 02:53:19 shachaf: see, your minimum wage is only a half-assed compensation for the fact you don't have properly powerful labor unions hth 02:53:43 oerjan: the government is the most powerful labor union of all hth 02:53:47 except it's not very good 02:53:51 at labor unioning 02:55:07 it doesn't count as a labor union if the employers have more say than the laborers hth 02:56:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:10:37 what if british banks have the most say 03:10:43 does it count as a libor union 03:11:19 oerjan: do you think the us minimum wage should be raised 03:12:03 my prejudices say yes. 03:12:15 my actual knowledge is insufficient hth 03:12:29 I know that I decided to do some amateur economics that's probably terrible in the wake of Brexit 03:13:05 and concluded that in response to Brexit, the UK minimum wage should probably be increased, with a reduction in corporation tax to compensate 03:13:18 then I was surprised to see that many actual economists had come to the same conclusion 03:13:23 oerjan: what do you think about the tipped employee minimum wage exception 03:13:44 scowissimus hth 03:14:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:14:02 shachaf: I think it's ridiculous, I don't like the idea of peoples' livelihoods depending on customs rather than actual rules 03:14:12 anyway it doesn't apply in california 03:14:23 in the UK, tipping at restaurants is rare apart from very high-end ones 03:14:39 like, if someone takes your order while you're seated, then later physically delivers your food 03:14:43 it doesn't directly depend on custom though 03:14:43 tipping would be usual 03:14:45 even where it does apply, the minimum wage is the lower bound, with the employer having to pay the difference if necessary 03:14:53 ^ 03:15:00 that said, the US minimum wage is a joke 03:15:03 but it's still scow 03:15:17 ais523: How did you come to that conclusion? 03:15:17 would you star a repo called silver-giggle? 03:15:20 on github 03:15:38 you wouldn't star a scow 03:15:53 i'm wondering how popular i'd be if i created repos with the names github suggested 03:16:15 ais523: I'm headed to England for the weeked (... stupid, I know), is tipping like that only for high end restaurants, or just anywhere where there is sit-down service? 03:16:32 (fwiw I have stopped tipping at restaurants that do not offer full sit-down service. I feel the need to draw the line) 03:16:52 so many places have started asking for tips because it's just a configuration option on the credit card machine 03:17:09 alercah: has to be fairly high-end 03:17:24 also the usual tip is approximately 10% but it's common to round it so that the total price paid is a round number 03:17:30 -!- encodingcollecto has joined. 03:17:35 so it might be 9% or 11% depending on the exact price of the meal 03:17:58 I think in the US the standard restaurant tip is ~20%. 03:18:56 (nobody would be annoyed if you didn't round it; it's just usual to do so) 03:19:31 The UK minimum wage seems to be higher than the US's but lower than California's. Of course it's hard to compare these things. 03:19:43 My impression of UK software engineer wages was that they're very low compared to the US, but I don't know whether that's true. 03:19:43 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49854&oldid=49847 * Iovoid * (+222) 03:19:51 Maybe comparing to silly valley is unfair. 03:20:32 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49855 * Iovoid * (+1151) Created page for VoidLang 03:20:40 it is, partly because silicon valley wages are high due to living costs 03:20:55 (seriously, try adjusting the wages for cost of living and, while still quite high, they are far more reasonable) 03:21:16 shachaf: here, the standard tip is 15-20% depending who you ask 03:21:22 but traditionally this is on the pre-tax price 03:21:34 nowadays the credit card machines do it for you, but they apply it to the total prie 03:21:41 Well, if wages scale linearly with cost of living, then it makes sense to live in the most expensive place you can find. 03:21:43 so a lot of people started tipping more without knowing it 03:22:34 scow stipping 03:22:45 yeah tipping is dumb 03:22:49 just kill it 03:22:51 outlaw it 03:22:57 so is cow tipping 03:24:15 Well, if wages scale linearly with cost of living, then it makes sense to live in the most expensive place you can find. ← that might explain London :-P 03:24:45 London has a semi-serious issue in that housing there is in such high demand for people who work high-paying jobs in the captial 03:24:53 is London more expensive than the san franciscow bay area? 03:25:24 that all the people who work support jobs, people like shelf stackers and doctors and the like, can't afford to live there on their smaller salaries 03:26:12 london is probably less expensive than san fransisco 03:26:18 but it's basically like a transport/housing black hole 03:26:32 Do UK doctors make much less money than US doctors? I think I might've heard someone say that once. 03:26:33 a house anywhere where it's possible to commute to London to do a job is more expensive as a result 03:26:40 even if the commute is ridiculous 03:26:50 How much is typical London rent? 03:27:39 average price to buy for a flat is £494,329 03:27:43 it's harder to figure out the renting value 03:27:52 @google 494329 GBP in USD 03:27:53 No Result Found. 03:27:58 That used to work. 03:28:03 San Francisco is the most expensive housing in the world IIRC 03:28:10 SF refuses to permit densification 03:28:15 That's pretty expensive, but it would be quite cheap in San Francisco. 03:28:28 so the prices are skyrocketing because the supply is limited by the arbitrary rules about how high you can build 03:29:25 it seems like most rental prices in London are in the £1000-2000 range 03:29:35 per month, that is 03:30:24 and £12000 per year is a plausible salary for someone's first job after graduating university 03:30:51 That seems like practically minimum wage. 03:30:59 I think a 1-bedroom apartment in Berkeley, where I live, would be in that range. 03:31:03 well a huge proportion of the country goes to university 03:31:14 Probably toward the mid-upper end of the range unless you get a cheap one? 03:31:50 minimum wage in the UK varies by age: for 21-24 year olds it's £6.95 03:31:54 per hour 03:31:55 Does anything support the "Accept-Features" HTTP header? 03:32:22 at 40 hours per week for 45 weeks, that's £12510 03:32:22 i,i Accept-Features: Accept-Features 03:32:46 wow, no wonder early graduate employment is in a mess 03:33:56 also, apprentices only have to be paid £3.40 per hour in the first year of their apprenticeship, that seems very low 03:34:02 https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates for anyone who wants to look up the numbers 03:34:17 ais523: it's also 50 weeks on this continent 03:34:47 I was guessing at the amount of holiday allowance 03:35:04 also, the amount of time spent looking for jobs when one fixed-term job after another ends 03:35:16 (only slightly bitter about that…) 03:35:21 I've applied for a couple of jobs but haven't heard back for weeks 03:35:31 What sorts of jobs? 03:36:02 academic jobs, one in teaching, one in research 03:36:12 both fields where I have experience 03:37:29 ais523: do you not have public insurance for the in-between-jobs periods? 03:38:00 alercah: yes, but it comes with a huge number of restrictions 03:38:06 and the amount isn't that great 03:38:10 I was hoping to avoid it 03:38:21 but might be forced into it if the jobs take much longer 03:38:36 (one of the requirements is that you have to spend much of your time applying for jobs, including ones that are a terrible fit) 03:39:00 Why do you want to stay in Birmingham? 03:39:02 ahh, I believe that's not the case here; you are not expected to switch fields 03:39:26 also if you haven't heard back in weeks it's not unreasonable to follow up 03:39:49 shachaf: I'm really bad at travelling and living in unfamiliar places 03:39:51 I haven't moved house /ever/ 03:40:12 other people have moved out, but I just stayed 03:40:32 And you also don't want to become good at it? 03:40:36 and when I've been abroad for conferences and the like it's been terrible 03:40:45 why terrible? 03:40:50 lack of routine? 03:40:51 What an odd thing. My family moved around probably every few years when I was young. 03:41:23 alercah: sometimes I have problems doing even basic tasks in unfamiliar environments 03:41:38 I almost starved to death while in France because I have food intolerances and most of the food would have triggered one or another 03:41:45 oh, ouch :( 03:41:47 or, well, that's an exaggeration 03:41:55 I had enough food to live off but it was a very repetitive diet 03:41:57 I have enough food allergies that I understand what you mean 03:42:04 I basically lived off BLT sandwiches and crisps 03:42:26 I couldn't remember whether crisps are "chips" or "crackers". 03:42:29 I guess they're "chips". 03:42:35 yes 03:42:38 "potato chips" in US English, yes 03:43:02 poochtato 03:43:04 ais523: I think that it is something that takes getting used to 03:44:18 the other thing is that Birmingham is almost exactly the right size for me 03:44:29 that is a handy feature 03:44:31 it has a good variety of places within walking distance, for example 03:44:33 I wish KW were slightly larger 03:44:38 or more accurately 03:44:44 slightly more people in the same area 03:44:58 Kitchener-Waterloo? 03:45:20 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:45:48 San Francisco is so small. 03:46:00 It's not even the biggest city by population in the San Francisco Bay area. 03:46:50 Hm, I never really had that thought when I was there :) 03:47:05 (assuming you're talking about Kitchener-Waterloo) 03:48:17 kitchen 'er water loo? i 'ardly know 'er! 03:49:20 Maybe I should visit Toronto. 03:49:23 I hear it's a good place. 03:51:09 <\oren\> five hours till 10 AM in berlin 03:51:29 <\oren\> wikileaks approaching tick tock 03:51:35 Kitchener used to be called Berlin 03:51:54 Until 1916 03:52:54 [wiki] [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49856&oldid=49117 * Ais523 * (+156) /* C */ mirror of Blak 03:53:03 shachaf: yes, kitchener-waterloo 03:53:16 Cale: that KW could be denser? 03:53:21 ais523: Have you considered some sort of software type of job? I hear they're good. 03:53:37 (I'm not sure I actually hear that. I mostly hear people complaining about them.) 03:54:03 shachaf: considered it, yes 03:54:13 if the current jobs fall through then that's my fallback 03:57:19 I think I worked in the same building as Don Woods once. 03:57:26 But I suspect his job was not related to INTERCAL. 03:57:32 guess the next term 3 7 13 31 61 127 251 03:57:38 0 03:57:45 guess again 03:57:47 0 03:57:55 you're eliminated 03:58:07 hmm, let's let lambdabot have a guess 03:58:09 izalove: http://slbkbs.org/math-diff-2-4.txt hth 03:58:13 @oeis 3 7 13 31 61 127 251 03:58:14 https://oeis.org/A014234 Largest prime <= 2^n. 03:58:14 [2,3,7,13,31,61,127,251,509,1021,2039,4093,8191,16381,32749,65521,131071,262... 03:58:25 izalove: lambdabot guesses 509 03:58:41 how does lambdabot find it? 03:59:00 it's not even in the first page of results on oeis.org 03:59:03 basically it just searches in a huge database of sequences 03:59:29 i know what oeis is 03:59:37 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 56 78 90 03:59:37 Sequence not found. 03:59:40 Sure it is. 03:59:42 http://oeis.org/search?q=3%2C7%2C13%2C31%2C61%2C127%2C251 04:00:00 oh it works with commas 04:00:02 http://oeis.org/search?q=3%2C7%2C13%2C31%2C61%2C127%2C251&language=english&go=Search 04:00:09 right, commas 04:00:13 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 04:00:15 https://oeis.org/A035485 Card on top of deck at n-th stage of R. K. Guy's sh... 04:00:15 [1,2,3,1,6,5,9,1,4,2,16,10,12,14,23,16,18,20,17,27,30,33,38,10,14,37,32,6,11... 04:00:21 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 56 04:00:22 https://oeis.org/A059805 Natural numbers written with digits grouped in pair... 04:00:22 [12,34,56,78,91,1,11,21,31,41,51,61,71,81,92,2,12,22,32,42,52,62,72,82,93,3,... 04:00:47 I was going to say, that sequence doesn't have an obvious way to continue indefinitely 04:00:52 but it looks like OEIS knew of one 04:00:53 @oeis 01 23 45 67 89 04:00:54 Sequence not found. 04:01:26 <\oren\> @oeis 3 1 4 1 5 04:01:39 https://oeis.org/A000796 Decimal expansion of Pi (or, digits of Pi). 04:01:39 [3,1,4,1,5,9,2,6,5,3,5,8,9,7,9,3,2,3,8,4,6,2,6,4,3,3,8,3,2,7,9,5,0,2,8,8,4,1... 04:02:14 shachaf: re the minimum wage rise / corporation tax cut, my reasoning was that it's logical that if you're being protectionist wrt workers, you'd want to ensure that all the jobs were filled via increasing pay, as you can't rely on migrant workers any more 04:03:42 <\oren\> I prefer mercantilism to protectionism. Buy cheap and sell dear, on the level of nationstates 04:04:23 i,i buy sheep and sell deer 04:05:05 \oren\: I didn't want to make a judgement as to whether protectionism was a good thing, just work out how you'd have to adjust things in the likely event that it's implemented 04:05:25 shachaf: a little topological group representation theory is not amiss if you happen to end up a quantum mechanic, repairing other peoples' quanta when they begin to wear out 04:05:27 i lold 04:05:47 <\oren\> if you can mak sure you sell lots of finished goods and buy only raw materials, then money will flow into your country... 04:06:30 \oren\: well the UK's exports are mostly services 04:08:08 \oren\: Is money flowing into your country a good thing? 04:08:24 Money isn't even real. 04:09:00 If real world goods are flowing out of your country and in return some numbers get bigger, is that really to your advantage? 04:09:06 <\oren\> yes. if your country has more money, then on average everyone in your country has more moeny 04:09:47 But money is still not real. 04:10:22 <\oren\> in the time of mercantilism, moeny was gold 04:10:39 Well, at least you can't print gold. 04:11:19 <\oren\> you could do a similar thing creating a policy where your country is gathering large amounts of any valuable thing 04:11:34 <\oren\> gold happened to be the thing in the 1800's 04:12:01 <\oren\> most countries still have their gold reserves 04:12:12 \oren\: What do you think of this crackpot-sounding PDF? http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf 04:12:17 (It starts at page 11.) 04:12:35 <\oren\> but gold is no longer that useful 04:12:35 It says some things that are obviously problematic, but I'm not sure what to make of the overall idea. 04:12:47 Gold has never been that useful. 04:12:53 <\oren\> I would recommend that countries gather plutonium 04:13:04 alercah: yeah, I mean, there are obviously denser cities, but I didn't feel like it was too sparse or anything... there always seemed to be plenty of stuff to do. 04:13:20 Cale: What did you think of New York? 04:13:22 shachaf: ooh you're the author 04:13:24 Wait, were you in NY or Boston? 04:13:26 izalove: ? 04:13:28 and jsgif is cool 04:13:30 <\oren\> plutonium stockpiles are very valuable to a country 04:13:31 your site 04:13:35 izalove: I'm not the author of that text. 04:13:39 okk 04:13:42 There's a reference at the top. 04:13:47 It's from a book. 04:13:48 you're the author of the description for jsgif? 04:14:07 I thought you were talking about the excerpt from _Mathematics Made Difficult_ 04:14:14 Cale: It's not bad if you have a car 04:14:15 Which is a good book. 04:14:23 Cale: Did you read that book? 04:14:37 do you have a blog? 04:14:38 right now, with the construction, travelling by foot/bus is pretty bad 04:15:24 <\oren\> shachaf: well gold used to be useful because eveyone used it as money 04:15:34 shachaf: New York is fun to visit, but it's a bit stressful. 04:15:55 <\oren\> you could make a case for countries to crate large stockpiles of american dollars... 04:16:09 shachaf: I've been to both NYC and Boston in somewhat recent times 04:16:12 Here's a PDF (25MB): http://i7-dungeon.sourceforge.net/math_hard.pdf 04:16:17 <\oren\> or other "safe" currencies 04:16:34 agreed re NYC 04:18:17 `olist 1054 04:18:18 olist 1054: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 04:19:21 so why don't people just put a ping on `olist, rather than adding themself to the list? 04:19:57 Maybe some people do. 04:21:15 I think there might be some lists with no official subscribers? 04:21:36 It is what I suggested for `danddreclist too, and use that even if HackEgo won't respond for any reason 04:21:56 But yes, also with other stuff such as `olist I suggest you can do that kind of stuff. 04:30:17 \oren\: What do you think of that PDF? 04:37:55 so why don't people just put a ping on `olist, rather than adding themself to the list? <-- i usually see the `olist in the logs, not in irssi. 04:38:18 well in that case your name isn't pinging you either 04:38:23 unless you grep for your name in the logs, I guess 04:38:39 grep is sort-of an after-the-fact log-based version of pinging 04:38:42 i search for my name in IE hth 04:39:06 it's very reasonable as long as it's only one string 04:40:11 i was excited for a moment when the channel was vaguely about esolangs. can we do that again? :P 04:40:41 what were we discussing? 04:40:52 did you see my edit to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Black? 04:41:16 (apparently the interp has vanished and wasn't in the web archive, so I rehosted it; it's not my interp but I happened to have a copy saved) 04:46:26 it's been a decade man 04:46:31 you should have proved it TC by now 04:47:58 <\oren\> shachaf: it's a very vehement exposition of some blindly obvious facts, combined with some bullshit 04:48:00 I haven't been working on it all that time! 04:48:09 also, the fact of my edit, and the circumstances surrounding it 04:48:21 increase the chance that someone else will prove it TC and save me the bother :-P 04:49:04 considering that you already understand it well enough to write a meaningful program in it means you have a head start on all such people 04:49:38 ...but i'll think about it anyway 04:50:19 \oren\: I can't tell whether the first part is true. 04:53:58 <\oren\> well, i mean, it's obvious that with fiat currency and in particular with electronic money, the government can create as much money as it wants or needs at any time 04:54:13 Yes, that much is obvious. 04:54:26 (Except the federal reserve system is very complicated for some reason.) 04:54:43 But are all the consequences of that obvious? 04:56:32 <\oren\> no, because he made other assumptions 04:56:43 Yes. 04:57:21 For example, people talk about government deficits being bad, and say that a government's spending should be lower than its tax revenue. 04:57:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:57:44 But if money is created only by the government, and you want the money supply to grow, is that really the case? 04:57:51 <\oren\> firstly, if a government prints too much money, its citizens will silently rebel by using foreign currencies and barter, not silently suffer 04:58:27 Of course there are negative consequences to printing unlimited amount of money. 04:58:47 (I don't think there was a claim to the contrary.) 04:59:13 Of course, money is introduced by many people other than the government. 05:00:15 <\oren\> no, but there are a bunch of places where I think he ignores the fact that currencies can start to compete within the economy 05:00:51 <\oren\> that is, not all transactions use the official currency of a country, especially when there is dysfunction 05:01:00 Of course. 05:01:37 One of the goals of anyone who makes any sort of currency is to have people trust it. 05:02:50 <\oren\> so not only will other countries not accept your currency, but a government can't actually force its citizens to use a currency 05:03:44 Well, they can require taxes to be paid in that currency. 05:03:50 <\oren\> so inflation rates have to be kept at a slow and veyr steady amount 05:04:56 I think people have been trying unsuccessfully to increase USD inflation. 05:07:05 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 05:07:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:07:40 -!- idris-bot has joined. 05:09:23 Why? 05:09:24 ais523: i made a Black gate that does a thing. maybe it will help. 05:09:49 quintopia: the hard part is decrementing variables 05:09:55 a variable needs to extend past the original area of the program 05:10:11 which means that the turning apparatus you need to decrement it needs to be shoved further and further out over time 05:10:22 the example program on the page is a proof that the decrement is possible 05:10:33 so I felt reasonably confident at that point that it was TC 05:11:04 ais523: i'm just thinking about building logic gates and circuits and stuff. 05:11:28 ah right, the control rather than the data 05:11:47 I hadn't thought much about that 05:12:58 stupid america and stupid month/day/year dates 05:13:44 https://github.com/aappleby/smhasher last commit on jan 9 and the text says "update: 1/8/2016" 05:14:00 total wtf for a couple of minutes 05:14:01 <\oren\> ugh 05:14:23 <\oren\> I prefer the japanese/chinese system where each number is labeled 05:14:45 pretty much any other scheme is better 05:15:37 <\oren\> izalove: what about century/month/day/yearofcentury? 20/1/8/16 05:15:49 you're the devil 05:16:33 -!- foo_ has joined. 05:16:44 \oren\: and then Japanese has an era. H28/8/16 05:17:02 (probably will change soon) 05:18:05 -!- burden-- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:19:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:20:04 <\oren\> 3:40 hours till Assange will give his address 05:20:34 it's 123 fake street 05:20:46 nowhere, anywhere 05:21:13 <\oren\> I mean address as in a speech 05:21:24 <\oren\> for the 10th anniversary of wikileaks 05:28:45 clearly dates should give the year number mod 3, 5, 7, 11, and 13 05:28:58 that'll be unambiguous until the year 15016, at least if you know which field is which 05:30:17 we could easily do the same fir month and day 05:30:24 go fkr it 05:30:51 like a binary clock but with mod results instead of single led 05:31:45 actually, remove 3 from the year 05:31:55 use 5, 7, 11, 13 for the year, 3 and 4 for the month, 31 for the day 05:32:29 nah, the same for everything, otherwise it'd be way too easy 05:33:28 like, what fun is it to see 27th if you can have 2, 6, 5, 1 05:35:12 also, we could just use the discordian dates 05:39:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:41:29 myname: maybe the day uses 2 and 17? 05:41:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:41:41 or, hmm, perhaps duplicates are OK 05:41:47 2 and 4 is dubious enough as-is 05:42:22 using the same primes make a neat table 05:43:02 like, 5,7,11,13 as columns and year,month,day as rows 05:43:44 -!- encodingcollecto has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:45:33 til esoteric programming languages are "Langages de programmation exotiques" in French. exotic! now thats classy! 05:47:24 ugh, I should really work out the details of the language I wanted to work out the details of 05:47:30 is the calesyta esolang challenge still going? 05:47:42 maybe in france, esoteric isn't that esoteric 05:48:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:48:36 oh, November 15 05:48:37 plenty of time 05:50:42 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:55:33 ais523: There won't BE a world on november 15 05:55:55 hppavilion[1]: is this related to the US elections? 05:56:01 Yes? 05:56:16 I mean, the president-elect isn't sworn in until January... 05:56:34 oh 05:56:45 so why do you think the world will end by november 15? 05:57:32 trump should at least wait for the release of disney's moana 05:57:36 before destroying the world 05:58:04 blowing up the planet before that would be a dick move 05:58:34 I'm at least mildly confident that if it came to a war between the US and the rest of the world, the rest of the world could deal with the problem without accidentally ending human civilisation in the process 05:58:37 izalove: After would be completely fair though; I mean, this is the planet that elected Trump 05:58:48 he hasn't been elected yet 05:58:54 ais523: You haven't met the US 05:58:58 and is currently projected to have around a 1 in 3 chance of winning 05:59:04 Well yeah 05:59:10 hppavilion[1]: I know enough about elections to know that they can be determined by completely random stuff 05:59:15 so I'm worried 05:59:27 but less worried than I could be 05:59:33 do you have a vote in the US, and if so, in which state? 05:59:45 I mean, Hillary's not exactly preferable 05:59:52 ais523: No; ineligible for the moment 05:59:56 you can be preferable without actually being good 06:00:11 Well yeah 06:00:22 I'd rather write an IRC client in INTERCAL than Malbolge, but neither is an appropriate choice 06:00:38 ais523: I think it boils down to being shot in the foot or shot in the head; neither is good, but one isn't going to kill you 06:01:03 ais523: I don't think it'd be even possible to write it in malbolge; it doesn't do sockets iirc 06:01:14 put it in a loop with netcat 06:01:16 like thutubot does 06:01:23 Ah 06:01:53 REPLs are one thing, but RSERPLs are even better 06:02:03 (Read Send Eval Receive Print Loop- SSH, basically) 06:02:31 eval before receive? 06:02:46 izalove: eval is done remotely 06:02:48 that said, CLC-INTERCAL does have sockets 06:02:57 and receive isn't? 06:03:04 also the best IPv6 compatibility method I've ever seen 06:03:11 izalove: As in, data is sent to remote, evaluated there, and the response is sent back 06:03:20 And printed 06:03:30 It's not a very good name 06:03:36 (you can look up an IPv6 IP as though it were a domain name, or an IPv6-only domain name, and you'll get a fake IPv4 address in response which then gets translated to and from the IPv6 address behind the scenes) 06:03:49 shouldn't it be read send receive eval send receive print loop ? 06:03:58 I guess you could say RSRPL+RESL 06:04:01 "receive eval send loop" is probably the best name for it 06:04:08 ais523: True 06:09:19 Does any program other than CLC-INTERCAL capable to do such a thing with IPv6 compatibility? 06:09:46 zzo38: I don't know of one, although that doesn't mean that there isn't one I don't know about 06:10:37 i'd just say remote-repl 06:11:51 but what does remote stand for 06:12:17 doesn't matter 06:12:42 "somewhere, maybe but not necessarily here" 06:13:10 worst acronym ever 06:13:40 that's because it isn't one 06:13:48 also, INTERCAL is way worse 06:14:12 is that even an acronym? 06:14:17 Sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic 06:14:20 it is 06:14:22 it's pronounceable, which would tend to imply not 06:14:33 Also, any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced 06:14:37 it stands for Programming Language With No Pronouncable Acronym 06:14:53 I believe the only official statement along the lines is "INTERCAL is short for Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym" 06:15:03 which implies that it's an abbreviation, but no necessarily an acronym 06:15:07 myname: PLWNPA? That's pronounceable. 06:15:17 But you have to treat w like old english 06:15:21 Where it can make 'oo' 06:15:31 also, it's only dubiously a real word (which tends to imply that it isn't an acronym), and it isn't an initialism 06:15:34 hppavilion[1]: intercal's not that old, i guess 06:15:46 myname: 1972 06:16:17 myname: Would you be surprised if it wanted us to use old English? 06:16:19 see, not "old english" old 06:16:26 i would 06:16:38 myname: You clearly aren't in the INTERCALlian spirit then 06:16:55 intercal is more of a "look at what you can do" instead of a "look what we moved away from" 06:17:10 if it would be the later, it would still have goto 06:17:11 INTERCAL is designed to do things differently from other languages, that is its only real guiding principle 06:17:26 note that this allows doing things better in cases where most other languages mess them up 06:17:41 however, normally all the best options are already taken, thus forcing INTERCAL to choose a worse one 06:20:44 if it doesn't have null pointers, it is still a better language than go 06:21:42 you possibly don't want to know how INTERCAL's closest pointer equivalents work :-P 06:22:07 although they have null pointers to the same extent that they have multivalued pointers 06:22:30 and some pointer-like constructs have a pointer end up pointing to itself if you attempt to unset it 06:24:29 GOTO is still something that would help in some programming languages which don't have it; in some of these cases they eventually did add goto 06:24:35 But JavaScript still doesn't yet 06:25:03 i am not sure if goto would be any good in an event based language 06:26:24 What do you mean by "event based language" exactly? 06:43:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:11:15 idea 07:11:22 for a hash function 07:11:29 that can output any amount of bytes 07:11:37 take a prng 07:11:57 seed it with a fixed value 07:12:50 then something like uint32_t hash = rng(); while (*data) hash ^= rng() * *data++; 07:13:11 can be adapted to output a 64 bit hash by calling rng twice in the loop 07:13:24 or 128 bit or 196 bit or 1024 bit 07:14:21 is it stupid? 07:18:46 any feedback would be appreciated.. <.< 07:18:46 it's not too stupid but it's probably better to use a fixed sequence of values rather than random values 07:18:52 otherwise you get silly behaviour when the RNG outputs 0, or a stream of the same value in a row, etc. 07:19:15 many actual insecure hash functions use that sort of formula though 07:19:26 it's not for crypto 07:19:51 the rng is a way to generate a fixed sequence of decently distributed numbers 07:20:09 indeed 07:20:27 one well-known hash (ISBN check codes) uses the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, … 10 for the purpose 07:20:39 so I'm not sure that being decently distributed is required here :-D 07:20:47 ais523: I have a vote in California. 07:21:02 ais523: can't hurt, no? 07:21:03 That's not very useful as far as influecing the national election. 07:21:12 shachaf: hmm, that's one of the least valuable states to have a vote in, sadly 07:21:18 at least it means you could safely screw around with it 07:21:29 That's true. 07:21:32 ais523 2016 07:21:33 (also, influencing the popular vote might potentially help in the case of a close decision) 07:22:25 there's at least one stupid scenario, with a fraction-of-a-percent chance, in which the house of representatives gets to pick between clinton, trump, and johnson 07:22:41 and if clinton doesn't win the popular vote they'll almost certainly go for trump in that situation 07:23:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:24:08 7000/1 is a fraction 07:52:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 08:01:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:02:01 with that hash function it's easy to generate a bloom filter 08:02:14 just initialize with n different seeds 08:07:48 -!- augur has joined. 08:17:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:20:32 -!- augur has joined. 08:29:00 https://www.scribd.com/doc/18093757/Fuckin-Concrete-Contemporary-Abstract-Algebra-Introduction-by-Nicolas-Bourbaki-Junior 08:32:45 -!- Caesura has joined. 08:34:06 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:50:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:58:43 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:17:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:24:52 -!- carado has joined. 10:27:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:28:07 -!- augur has joined. 11:34:57 -!- boily has joined. 11:41:19 `wisdom 11:41:25 treant//Treants are genericized ents for intellectual property reasons. 12:02:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:03:11 -!- augur has joined. 12:25:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BONUS CHICKEN). 12:31:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:32:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:08:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:11:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:27:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:27:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:45:02 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:45:04 moooo 13:50:34 Gesundheit 13:53:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:54:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:57:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:58:26 -!- augur has joined. 14:19:34 -!- trn has joined. 14:20:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:38:27 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:17:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:20:29 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 15:20:31 @tell fizzie You know, maybe zemhill_____ should sometimes _subtract_ an underscore hth 15:20:31 Consider it noted. 15:33:52 Subtraction is unsound 15:33:57 Addition forever 15:34:08 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKAY 15:35:07 negative numbers don't even real 15:36:13 No zero either. 15:38:37 and these newfangled numbers larger than two are suspect as well. 15:52:48 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:06:29 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 16:22:04 FreeFull: gotta stay positive, I like it 16:52:54 `quote different result 16:52:55 397) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 17:04:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:06:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:08:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 17:14:56 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 17:15:00 mooo 17:16:19 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:16:54 wb `^_^v 17:16:56 * oerjan feels obligated to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI 17:17:12 lol 17:17:21 special for you 17:19:19 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:50:25 It's been a while... I wonder whether the original swf is still around. 18:03:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:10:00 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:18:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:23:18 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:24:26 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:38:03 <`^_^v> thank you moonythedwarf. your kindness these past few days has warmed my heart 18:39:41 haven't heard that song in a while 18:40:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:41:30 it bothers me that the song says "he" but the animation shows a "she" 18:46:06 `? mahjong 18:46:07 mahjong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:51:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:57 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:57:50 -!- Reece` has joined. 19:02:10 -!- Reece` has quit (Client Quit). 19:02:25 -!- Reece` has joined. 19:04:27 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:13:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:41 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:21:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:49 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:24:49 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:34:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:34:15 I seem to be studying the "signs" of a set, which is a mathematical idea of mine (it could already exist, but I haven't heard of it) that ISN'T half-baked 19:34:27 It's essentially a way of generalizing positive and negative numbers 19:34:49 I'll explain if anyone is interested, once I write down an ACIIable version 19:36:45 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:39:40 hey, it can't be less half-baked than the "signs" of M. Night Shyamalan 19:39:54 or is it 'more half-baked'? 19:40:03 'less-than-half-baked'? 19:40:20 probably just 'less-baked' 19:42:57 quintopia: I'll have to check that 19:43:31 quintopia: Ah 19:43:34 I thought it was math xD 19:43:50 quintopia: Shall I explain them? 19:47:35 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 19:48:09 Back 19:48:25 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? 19:48:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:48:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 20:04:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:07:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:10:02 -!- augur has joined. 20:17:28 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:31:15 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:50:26 `wisdom 20:50:29 banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 20:58:42 <\oren\> `? 20:58:43 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:58:49 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:58:50 ​αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo! 20:59:05 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:07 ruby//Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. 20:59:17 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:18 wth//WTH is wavy toe hair. hth. 20:59:22 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:23 ​@//@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. 20:59:29 `? hth 20:59:29 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 20:59:33 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:35 overworld//The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games. 20:59:40 hth can also be 'hope that harmed' in some cases 20:59:44 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:45 `? hðh 20:59:45 structural subtyping//Not to be confused with substructural typing. 20:59:46 hðh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:59:52 <\oren\> `wisdom 20:59:53 ipu//IPU is an invisible pink unicorn. 20:59:59 <\oren\> `wisdom 21:00:00 semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. 21:01:31 `learn hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:01:33 Learned 'hðh': hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:01:48 `? hðh 21:01:49 hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:02:02 `? hppavilion[n] 21:02:02 hppavilion[n]? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:02:06 `? hppavilion 21:02:07 hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk 21:02:46 `learn hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. Not to be confused with hppavilion_n 21:02:49 Relearned 'hppavilion': hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. Not to be confused with hppavilion_n 21:04:24 `rm wisdom/hðh 21:04:25 No output. 21:05:30 shachaf: :( 21:05:39 Pointing out that you're being annoying does not free you from any consequences of being annoying. 21:05:56 ++ 21:05:56 If anything it does the opposite. 21:06:21 ...fair enough 21:06:30 shachaf: I felt it'd be useful though. 21:06:41 For people who get confused if I accidentally slip back into ERA 21:07:02 (I use ERA outside of #esoteric; I only avoid it here out of consideration for the request of those with bad Unicode handling in their clients) 21:07:08 No, you felt it'd be funny. 21:07:48 shachaf: ...that too. 21:08:01 Everything I do is for humor 21:09:33 <\oren\> I wasn't expecting Semmelweis to be a real person 21:09:50 \oren\: Whom? 21:10:05 Oh, was it a user that recently joined and turned out to not be a bot? 21:17:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:18:03 -!- augur has joined. 21:18:18 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: no 21:18:27 <\oren\> `wisdom semmelweis 21:18:28 semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. 21:18:38 <\oren\> that's actually true 21:19:05 <\oren\> the trick was disinfecting their hands before delivering babies 21:20:34 Ah 21:20:40 ...Oh, huh 21:22:20 \oren\: But why would doctors hate him? It's more chargeable if the mother lives because (a) nasty ethics like "don't make people pay you, at least as much, when you seriously failed" don't get in the way as often and (b) dead men need no doctors (except, y'know, coroners), so they won't be returning customers 21:23:15 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: they hated him for suggesting that a gentleman's hands could possibly carry disease 21:23:26 Ah, yes 21:23:35 -!- Caesura has joined. 21:24:28 . o O ( They could carry the disease... of love! ) 21:31:06 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:34:11 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:34:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:40:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:56:30 So people apparently sometimes say that Grover's algorithm can be used for "searching a database". 21:57:59 Suppose I have a "quantum hard drive" that I can store qubits in, but when I'm pulling qubits out, I have to specify the index classically; I can't ask for a superposition of indices. 21:58:51 Is there a way I can store a database on this quantum hard drive such that I can use Grover's algorithm to quickly search it? 22:02:47 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: MDude). 22:03:13 -!- MDude has joined. 22:24:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:29:37 tswett: I'm not an expert on this, but as I understand it, no; Wikipedia agrees: "Roughly speaking, if we have a function y = f(x) that can be evaluated on a quantum computer, Grover's algorithm allows us to calculate x when given y." 22:50:43 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49857&oldid=49855 * Iovoid * (+538) Add examples. 22:56:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:01:45 hello 23:23:56 -!- boily has joined. 23:24:59 `wisdom 23:25:00 ​#programming//No such channel. See `? #esoteric 23:26:15 <\oren\> `wisdon 23:26:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdon: not found 23:26:17 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:26:19 oregon//Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left. 23:26:26 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:26:27 codoctor//P⚭Q ∧ P ∈ 𝔻𝕣 → Q ∈ 𝔻𝕣* 23:26:47 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:26:49 northumberland//Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE! 23:26:56 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:26:57 heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. 23:27:04 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:27:05 the universe//The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet. 23:27:12 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:27:13 try//There is no try. 23:27:18 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:27:20 finland//Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 23:27:26 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:27:27 dynamic-wind//dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind. 23:31:08 he\\oren\. please be advised that nothing can oppose oerjan hth 23:31:19 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:31:21 joke//Jokes are no drug. 23:31:25 <\oren\> `wisdom 23:31:27 fire//Fire, fire, everywhere, nor any drop to drink. 23:33:04 `wisdom 23:33:05 scotland// it's that place where they all wear kilts and chase haggises around whilst warding off the loch ness monster with bagpipes 23:33:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:35:27 coily 23:35:35 elloerjan 23:36:00 intopia 23:37:07 quinthellopia, hellørjan. 23:37:30 * boily opposes oerjan. FOR SCIENCE! 23:37:35 hoily. i have found the universe quite efficient at opposing me, actually. 23:37:44 * quintopia opposes boily 23:38:07 * oerjan refuses to oppose either, on principle 23:38:41 are you opposing opposition? 23:39:09 NEVER 23:39:20 OKAY 23:39:30 im not totally opposing boily, i just think he hasnt given vocaloid a completely fair shot. 23:39:38 * oerjan gets hit by the falling anvil. it's been a while... 23:41:04 oppose is when you reverse all the 2-cells in a pose? 23:41:39 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? <-- . o O ( baguette derivatives ) 23:41:58 no its when you give a pose the permission to kick people from the channel 23:42:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:42:20 speak of the devil 23:42:25 speak o... oops 23:42:50 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? <-- . o O ( baguette derivatives ) 23:43:11 tell us aboit set signs then hppavilion[1] 23:44:10 quintopia: itym posse hth 23:44:47 no that would be opposse 23:45:04 opossible 23:47:10 quintopia: OK 23:47:11 * boily is confuzzled. 23:47:48 Signs are basically a way of generalizing positive and negative (and zero) numbers that I'm playing with 23:48:03 a heffalomp or wuzzle / is very confuzzle 23:48:36 You have a set S and a magnitude function (which is basically a more general absolute value) #x : S -> T that may or may not need to satisfy some properties that I haven't found to be needed yet 23:49:09 they come in ones and twoosels. 23:49:10 (Assume for now T is a subset of S. Other cases are possible, of course, but I'm ignoring those for now) 23:49:55 (#x must be defined for ALL elements of S) 23:51:38 a heffalomp or wuzzle's very sly 23:51:52 So for many definitions of #x, there will be several values x, y where x /= y, #x = #y (by the pigeonhole principle, definitely any where T has lesser cardinality (which is, by the way, a possible definition of #) than X) 23:51:58 `? hppavilion 23:51:59 hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. A common alternative definition is the set of all items yielded by the general case of the generator. Not to be confused with hppavilion^k or hppavilion_m. 23:52:06 oh. 23:52:18 And sign basically is what makes those values different. 23:52:50 well...all of that seems rather obvious, but how is it useful? 23:53:09 Like, y'know, when your set is Z and magnitude is just normal absolute value, -1 /= 1 but |-1| = |1| = 1 23:53:18 quintopia: Yeah, that's what I'm looking for 23:53:52 This feels like one of those things that HAS to be useful (not random babbling), but I don't know of an exact application 23:54:05 (I think I might have had one in mind earlier, but I've forgotten it if so) 23:54:13 `? heffalump 23:54:14 heffalump? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:54:29 what! 23:54:31 unacceptable 23:54:34 quintopia: But the point is that sign can be something more than just + - 0; you can have arbitrarily many of them 23:54:58 You can even have a cosign for every sign. 23:55:05 shachaf: ...yes, you could 23:55:17 Probably, let's be honest, that's going to come up eventually 23:55:47 (If you're doing complex numbers, you have uncountably many if you use normal absolute value for magnitude; the signs represent points on the unit circle) 23:56:51 `learn A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. 23:56:53 Learned 'heffalump': A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. 23:57:08 quintopia: Oh, and even if you just use Q, you can find alternative similar interpretations to positive and negative that are very different. 23:57:21 oerjan: that wisdom entry is very confusil 23:57:35 shocking 23:57:54 `? woozle 23:57:55 woozle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:58:00 a hefelump is a lump of sugar fermented with yeast 23:58:26 quintopia: is that a pun or just a mispling 23:58:54 Using mfloor(x) instead of abs(x), sign becomes any number n/m : m in N*, n in N, -1 ≤ n ≤ 1 23:59:23 oerjan: hefe as in hefeweizen