←2016-10-18 2016-10-19 2016-10-20→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:07 <myname> there are crazy randomized sorting algorithms that have o(1) sub-runtimes
00:00:08 <alercah> hppavilion[1]: there is a number x_0 above which f(x) is always 0
00:00:14 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
00:00:25 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: How is that not just O(1) then?
00:00:35 <alercah> hppavilion[1]: the constant function 1 is O(1) but not O(0)
00:00:48 <hppavilion[1]> (or, well, O(whatever the complexity of > is))
00:00:49 <alercah> if f \in O(g), then O(f) \subseteq O(g)
00:01:00 <myname> like, "input is bad 1/n^2 of the time, in this case just quicksort" will lead to (n log n)/n^2 being in o(1)
00:01:40 <ais523> myname: quicksort isn't actually O(n log n)…
00:01:41 <oerjan> <ais523> also I'm not convinced O(∞) is a real complexity class <-- i'd think it is a reasonably notation for the trivial "everything" class
00:01:53 <alercah> myname: how do you know that the input is bad only 1/n^2 of the time, though?
00:02:00 <myname> ais523: it's not?
00:02:07 <myname> oh yeah
00:02:08 <alercah> myname: also no practical algorithm can be o(1)
00:02:12 <ais523> myname: it's O(n²) worst case
00:02:14 <myname> well, randomized quicksort
00:02:24 <myname> or heapsort, whatever
00:02:28 <ais523> and although you have control over what the worst case is (and can make it random via randomized quicksort), you can never guarantee you don't hit it
00:02:29 <alercah> you might be thinking o(n)
00:03:04 <myname> alercah: math voodoo
00:03:05 <ais523> alercah: I think o(n) is dubious due to space ≤ time
00:03:17 <ais523> if something runs faster than O(n) it can't possibly look at all the input
00:03:36 <alercah> I think myname is saying a probabilistic algorithm though
00:03:37 <ais523> although that makes sense for things like mutating a data structure, where the whole point is that you don't want to look at the structure itself
00:03:47 <alercah> (which is distinct from a randomized algorithm)
00:03:55 <myname> alercah: right
00:03:57 <alercah> myname: o(1) means that there is no minimum time
00:04:21 <alercah> (other than 0, I believe)
00:04:44 <myname> i want algorithms in o(0)!
00:04:46 <ais523> agreed, o(1) basically means that it's always possible to get a faster runtime via making the problem bigger
00:05:17 <ais523> (not necessarily that making it bigger /always/ makes it faster; just that there's always some way to make it faster via making it bigger, you can select how much bigger)
00:05:51 <tswett> ? morphism
00:05:51 -!- Cale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:05:55 <HackEgo> A morphism is just a natural transformation between two functors on 1.
00:06:41 <ais523> ? natural transformation
00:06:43 <HackEgo> A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals.
00:06:48 <ais523> hmm
00:07:00 <ais523> this seems to break with the pattern of the other category theory entries
00:07:03 <ais523> was it so hard to explain?
00:07:10 <tswett> slwd morphism//s/functors on/diagrams of
00:07:11 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 25: unterminated s' command
00:07:14 <ais523> I was hoping for something along the lines of Quiler
00:07:15 <tswett> slwd morphism//s/functors on/diagrams of/
00:07:16 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Quiler
00:07:16 <HackEgo> wisdom/morphism//A morphism is just a natural transformation between two diagrams of 1.
00:07:32 <tswett> cwlprits morphism
00:07:34 <HackEgo> tsweẗt fizzïe evilips̈e oerjän shachäf ellioẗt oerjän ellioẗt Bik̈e FreeFul̈l ais52̈3 ais52̈3 ellioẗt FreeFul̈l oerjän fizzïe GreyKnigḧt GreyKnigḧt GreyKnigḧt
00:08:04 <tswett> I learned about the word "diagram" recently.
00:08:05 <ais523> that's a lot of random umlauts
00:08:08 <oerjan> rm bin/rw
00:08:09 <HackEgo> No output.
00:08:16 <tswett> A diagram is like a functor...
00:08:18 <oerjan> it's forget hth
00:08:24 <shachaf> ? diagram
00:08:25 <HackEgo> A diagram is just a functor.
00:08:29 <tswett> Because a diagram is the same thing as a functor...
00:08:45 <shachaf> A functor from a free category on some graph, often.
00:08:47 <tswett> But a diagram is thought of as a collection rather than a transformation!
00:08:49 <ais523> mkx bin/rb//rm "bin/$1" 00:08:51 <HackEgo> bin/rb 00:08:56 <ais523> rb rb 00:08:58 <HackEgo> No output. 00:09:00 <ais523> rb rb 00:09:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rb: not found 00:09:05 <ais523> good, it works 00:09:54 <ais523> tswett: huh, the definition of diagram I use (which is probably a different definition) is a representation of a set of categorical equations 00:10:01 <shachaf> it would be spooky if the error was "rb: bin/rb: file not found" 00:10:15 <shachaf> ais523: Are you talking about a commutative diagram in particular? 00:10:32 <shachaf> Usually a diagram doesn't represent any equations by itself. 00:10:48 <ais523> shachaf: err, yes, commutative diagrams 00:11:10 <ais523> mkx bin/rself//rm bin/rself 00:11:13 <HackEgo> bin/rself 00:11:15 <ais523> rself 00:11:18 <HackEgo> No output. 00:11:20 <ais523> rself 00:11:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rself: not found 00:11:24 <shachaf> ais523: bin/slist had prior art 00:11:25 <ais523> there, a better version of the idea 00:11:34 <ais523> although it's not going to beat /bin/cd 00:11:40 <shachaf> What's /bin/cd? 00:11:47 <ais523> let me pastebin it 00:11:51 <shachaf> I wrote a cd program once. 00:11:57 <shachaf> It attached to its parent with a debugger and made a chdir call. 00:12:06 <ais523> yes, that's exactly how mine works too 00:12:11 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/ZdTB 00:12:26 <shachaf> Oh, you used gdb. 00:12:31 <shachaf> In retrospect maybe I should've thought of that. 00:12:40 <ais523> what, you used ptrace directly? 00:12:44 <shachaf> Yes. 00:12:50 <tswett> Totally unrelated to anything! 00:12:54 <tswett> I have this philosophy philosophy. 00:13:00 <shachaf> Also I used the system call instead of the libc chdir() call. 00:13:08 <ais523> actually my version fails on filenames that contain literal double quotes or backslashes 00:13:14 <ais523> because gdb tries to C-unescape them 00:13:27 <ais523> so yours is probably better 00:14:07 <tswett> I think that if there is no solid argument for a claim, then the claim probably isn't true. 00:14:13 <ais523> on the subject of /bin/cd, I've heard that goto used to be an executable 00:14:13 <tswett> Consider the claim that qualia exist or whatever. 00:14:18 <ais523> that worked via editing the shell script that called it 00:14:23 <shachaf> And I think glibc caches the working directory so it broke some things that used getcwd. 00:14:29 <tswett> There exists no solid argument for that claim! I can poke holes in any of them! 00:14:40 <ais523> tswett: what if there isn't a solid argument either for or against? does that make the claim both probably true and probably false? 00:14:40 <imode> goto used be an executable? awesome. 00:15:06 <tswett> Therefore, the claim that qualia exist probably isn't true. 00:15:43 <tswett> ais523: well, a claim doesn't have to be false for it to be non-true. 00:15:59 <ais523> ah right 00:16:05 <tswett> If I claim that x = y, without specifying what x and y are supposed to be, that's not really either true or false. 00:16:06 <ais523> e.g. it could be meaningless, or paradoxical 00:16:12 <tswett> It's non-true and non-false. 00:16:14 <ais523> or irrelevant, or malformed 00:21:22 <boily> or Zen. 00:23:54 <ais523> can you give an example of a Zen statement which doesn't have one of the truth values listed above? 00:24:24 <ais523> I guess the Zen style is to make a statement that's apparently exceedingly metaphorical, but there's no way to resolve the metaphor into actual concepts you understand 00:24:31 <oerjan> *e 00:24:43 <boily> Zene? 00:25:12 <boily> ais523: mu :D 00:25:23 <ais523> boily: mu was a Zen /answer/ to a question 00:25:26 <ais523> which unasked the question 00:25:42 -!- computing has joined. 00:25:45 <ais523> interestingly, this is pretty much what throwing an exception does in most programming languages with structured exceptions 00:26:08 <ais523> huh, I just realised NetHack 4 also has the possibility of unasking a question 00:26:13 -!- Cale has joined. 00:26:17 <ais523> but this time, it's the person who asked the question who unasks it 00:26:30 <shachaf> aren't exceptions sufficient for some sort of non-constructive logic thing 00:26:48 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:26:50 <ais523> possibly 00:27:01 <ais523> how much extra control structure do you need for try/catch/throw to be TC? 00:27:10 <Zarutian> shachaf: you are talking about backtracking like in prolog? 00:27:16 <ais523> actually you probably also need unthrow or there's no clear way to store data 00:30:40 <fizzie> Huh, I just realized -- when someone removes the canary, it's not actually restored immediately; the commit is just skipped, and the canary is only restored after the next command has been run for the first time. I will demonstrate. 00:30:44 <fizzie> rm canary 00:30:46 <HackEgo> No output. 00:30:47 <fizzie>  echo$(date +%s) $(ls -l canary 2>&1) >> tmp/canary.txt; rm canary 00:30:49 <HackEgo> No output. 00:30:53 <fizzie> cat tmp/canary.txt 00:30:56 <HackEgo> 1476833406 ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory \ 1476833407 -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 4 Oct 18 23:30 canary 00:31:07 <fizzie> On the first run, there wasn't a canary. 00:31:22 <fizzie>  rm tmp/canary.txt # cleanup 00:31:22 <HackEgo> No output. 00:31:54 <ais523> fizzie: so after deleting the canary, the next command runs twice? 00:32:29 <fizzie> Yes. Well, it would run twice in any case if it did any commit-worthy changes. But it will run twice regardless, because the canary will be missing, and that looks like a change. 00:32:45 <shachaf> fizzie: Aha, this explains why something I did a while ago that I thought should have removed the canary didn't do it. 00:33:33 <shachaf> cat bin/ 00:33:34 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
00:33:48 <ais523>  echo test >> tmp/echotest.txt
00:33:49 <HackEgo> No output.
00:33:53 <ais523> cat tmp/echotest.txt
00:33:53 <HackEgo> test
00:33:59 <ais523> rm tmp/echotest.txt
00:34:00 <HackEgo> No output.
00:34:13 <shachaf> Nothing in tmp/ gets logged to hg in any case.
00:34:25 <ais523> ah right, that's why there was only one copy?
00:34:26 <ais523> or, hmm
00:34:28 <ais523> now I'm confused
00:35:04 <fizzie> It's actually not just the canary that's not restored; it's everything else as well. If the canary is gone, the code just skips the commit bit, but leaves the repo potentially-bad. You just normally can't tell, because even if that would cause the next command to behave strangely, that run is more or less ignored as the code thinks it made changes, and therefore restores the state and re-runs.
00:36:01 <ais523> is this where the "Hack" part of HackEgo comes from?
00:36:11 <shachaf>  sed 's#eval#rm canary; eval#' bin/\ > bin/'('
00:36:13 <HackEgo> No output.
00:36:28 <shachaf> ( date > test
00:36:29 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/(: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/(: cannot execute: Permission denied
00:36:40 <shachaf>  chmod +x bin/\(
00:36:42 <HackEgo> No output.
00:36:44 <shachaf> ( date > test
00:36:45 <HackEgo> No output.
00:36:49 <shachaf> cat test
00:36:50 <HackEgo> huh \ hi
00:36:55 <shachaf> rm test
00:36:57 <HackEgo> No output.
00:37:01 <shachaf> ( date > test
00:37:02 <HackEgo> No output.
00:37:04 <shachaf> cat test
00:37:05 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
00:40:05 <fizzie> I think what happened there was: ( date > test ran once, removed canary, wrote test. That looked like a change in the repository, so it was restored to pristine state and re-executed, doing the same thing. Between the commands, canary was missing and test exited. Then cat test ran for the first time; afterwards, the code thought that had made commit-worthy changes (because canary was missing ...
00:40:11 <fizzie> ... and test was added) so it restored the world, and re-executed cat test, at which point test no longer existed (and canary was back), so no commit was made.
00:41:52 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
00:46:01 <tswett> HackEgo is so weird.
00:46:04 <tswett> ? HackEgo
00:46:05 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
00:46:38 <tswett> cat canary
00:46:39 <HackEgo> EEP
00:47:04 <tswett> So I can, like...
00:47:06 <tswett> rm canary
00:47:07 <HackEgo> No output.
00:47:09 <tswett> cat canary
00:47:11 <HackEgo> EEP
00:47:18 <tswett> Interesante.
00:47:48 -!- gniourf has joined.
00:48:02 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:50:05 <fizzie> Yeah, the last cat ran twice.
00:50:28 <oerjan> ( date >>tmp/test
00:50:30 <HackEgo> No output.
00:50:35 <oerjan> cat tmp/test
00:50:36 <HackEgo> Tue Oct 18 23:49:47 UTC 2016 \ Tue Oct 18 23:49:48 UTC 2016
00:51:44 * boily is updating the PDF sources... ♪
00:51:51 <oerjan> rm tmp/test
00:51:51 <HackEgo> No output.
00:52:53 <oerjan> boily: i guess it's good ? canary is no longer an ELF binary, then.
00:53:29 <hppavilion[1]> Funtime activity: Convert any number that references degrees (including any "<n> degrees" AND any occurrence of the numbers {180, 360*n for positive integer n)) to radians
00:53:36 <hppavilion[1]> "XBox 2pi"
00:53:43 <hppavilion[1]> "Trump has done a complete pi"
00:53:44 <hppavilion[1]> etc.
00:54:20 <fizzie> It also uses a shared lock for the first run, and an exclusive one for the second, which probably more or less works, but there's still some racey things. E.g. if you manage to run a command that adds a file and one that removes the same file in parallel, it's possible to end up with no commits, which wouldn't be a possible outcome for either of the two possible sequential orderings.
00:54:34 <boily> oerjan: it all hinges on your definition of "good". some people in here like to throw some curveballs in the wisdom database...
00:54:42 <hppavilion[1]> %?
00:54:48 <boily> ? _46bit
00:54:49 <HackEgo> _46bit is a slightly-uptight public-schooled Brit. Taneb invented him.
00:54:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it applies to _all_ irc lines, ever, hth
00:55:02 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
00:55:06 <boily> is _46bit a person or a thing?
00:55:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...so you just removed he word 'radians' or...?
00:55:56 <hppavilion[1]> boily: User that didn't hang around
00:56:21 <oerjan> a person.
00:56:47 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: yep.
00:56:57 <oerjan> as you know, it's redundant.
00:57:19 <boily> I'm tempted to file them under Tanebventions. they'll be personed if they return.
00:57:25 <hppavilion[1]> (Or that started going by something else. Maybe there's a _32nat here somewhere?)
00:57:37 <oerjan> ? tanebvention
00:57:38 <hppavilion[1]> (APPROXIMATELY, OK!?)
00:57:42 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:57:56 <hppavilion[1]> ? hpstructions
00:57:57 <HackEgo> hpstructions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:58:03 <oerjan> slwd tanebvention//s/BBC/BBC, _46bit/
00:58:04 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:58:05 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
00:58:19 <hppavilion[1]> ("structions" as in "destruction", not as in "construction")
00:58:53 <hppavilion[1]> s/tions/tion/
00:59:12 <hppavilion[1]> s/"struct/"-struct/
00:59:53 -!- digitalc1ld has changed nick to digitalcold.
01:06:28 <hppavilion[1]> https://twitter.com/tldrwikipedia?lang=en is a lot like wisdom...
01:13:22 <boily>  culprits wisdom/alpha
01:13:24 <HackEgo> fizzïe evilips̈e oerjän b_jonäs
01:13:51 <boily> @ask wob_jonas wellob_jonas. letteral?
01:13:52 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:15:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it seems a lot more cynical tdnh
01:15:25 <hppavilion[1]> True
01:15:38 <hppavilion[1]> ? alpha
01:15:39 <HackEgo> Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral.
01:16:02 <hppavilion[1]> boily: It's a letter. Literally.
01:16:03 <hppavilion[1]> I guess.
01:16:32 <oerjan> it's to letter what a numeral is to a number hth
01:16:36 <boily> one never knows. maybe it's a typographical letter?
01:17:17 <boily> . o O ( there should be an Edible Chapter in the PDF. so many food entries... )
01:18:30 <oerjan> it will include all the food and johnny depp.
01:20:01 <oerjan>  howg alpha | tac
01:20:03 <HackEgo> ​<b_jonäs> learn alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the Disney-Pixar Up film, and a NATO phonetic alphabet letteral. \ <oerjän>  sed -i sbabAb wisdom/alpha \ <evilips̈e>  chmod 777 / -R \ <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1
01:22:11 * oerjan tempted to add bin/{h,d}o{w,a}t
01:22:20 <boily> ♪ DING ♪ little PDF update! some symbols, and entries in A!
01:22:54 <oerjan>  ls bin/{h,d}o{w,a}t
01:22:55 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/howt: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access bin/hoat: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access bin/dowt: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access bin/doat: No such file or directory
01:23:30 <oerjan>  echo bin/{h,d}o{w,a}{g,t}
01:23:30 <HackEgo> bin/howg bin/howt bin/hoag bin/hoat bin/dowg bin/dowt bin/doag bin/doat
01:23:49 <oerjan>  echo bin/{h,d}?{w,a}{g,t}
01:23:50 <HackEgo> bin/howg bin/h?wt bin/hoag bin/h?at bin/dowg bin/d?wt bin/doag bin/d?at
01:27:28 -!- moonheart08 has joined.
01:29:23 <moonheart08> http://i.imgur.com/4PrZSnV.jpg
01:30:38 * boily twitches
01:30:45 <boily> moonheart08: that's NSFB.
01:30:59 <oerjan> B?
01:31:10 <boily> Brain hth
01:31:23 <oerjan> AAAAA
01:31:26 <oerjan> indeed
01:33:09 <moonheart08> lol
01:33:25 <moonheart08> it makes no sense at all :P
01:33:34 <moonheart08> what do you all think should go on health and safety guidelines for Astatine? ( http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/at.htm )
01:33:52 <boily> ? brilliant
01:33:53 <HackEgo> B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ̺͌c̑͡h
01:34:10 <boily> how the actual fungot suis-je supposé formatter ça? AAAAAAAAARGH!
01:34:10 <fungot> boily: that's completely wrong. this might be
01:34:19 <boily> fungot: of course it's wrong!!!!
01:34:19 <fungot> boily: when i get inspiration. and inspiration is closely related with the ordinal numbers as well: dotted and circular lists. a circular list
01:34:44 <moonheart08> notice: that dialog was not faked, its part of a actual site&service (forgot which one), also, image not by me :P
01:35:08 <boily> fungot: well, you can shove your inspiration deep where brainfuck derivatives grow.
01:35:09 <fungot> boily: form and value of greek letter came from the class? sicp, i have to
01:35:39 <moonheart08> what do you all think should go on health and safety guidelines for Astatine? ( http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/at.htm ) << following the XKCD route, i personally think: NO scrawled over and over in blood -- What-If book
01:39:39 <oerjan>  wc wisdom/brilliant
01:39:40 <HackEgo> ​ 1 16 476 wisdom/brilliant
01:39:42 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
01:40:11 <oerjan>  wc <<<'B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ̺͌c̑͡h'
01:40:12 <HackEgo> ​ 1 13 309
01:40:25 <oerjan> boily: it seems to be cut off a bit hth
01:40:44 <oerjan> maybe check out the repo browser.
01:42:19 <oerjan> url wisdom/brilliant
01:42:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/brilliant
01:42:47 <boily> at least 'B' is now updated too.
01:43:11 <oerjan> yep, the file contains the whole original phrase
01:44:04 <oerjan> oh wait duh
01:44:16 <oerjan> my copying and pasting cut away the colors
01:45:57 <oerjan> ? boring
01:45:58 <HackEgo> Boring means of little interest.
01:46:21 <moonheart08> ? a internet
01:46:22 <HackEgo> a internet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:46:24 <moonheart08> ? internet
01:46:25 <HackEgo> The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
01:46:50 <oerjan>  cwlprits internet # if this isn't zzo38...
01:46:52 <HackEgo> fizzïe evilips̈e shachäf hppavilion[1̈] olsnër
01:46:57 <oerjan> huh it was't.
01:47:01 <oerjan> *+n
01:47:16 <oerjan>  cwlprits internet | tac
01:47:18 <HackEgo> fizzïe evilips̈e shachäf hppavilion[1̈] olsnër
01:47:33 <oerjan>  howg internet | tac
01:47:35 <HackEgo> ​<olsnër> learn The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too. \ <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn_append internet/Except porn. \ <shachäf> revert \ <evilips̈e>  chmod 777 / -R \ <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1
01:47:53 <oerjan> it is possible olsner was quoting him though
01:49:05 <fizzie> oerjan: Your guess is: correct.
01:49:16 <oerjan> yay!
01:50:05 <fizzie> (Date ref 2016-02-15.)
01:54:42 <oerjan> <izalove> https://github.com/izabera/s <-- . o O ( you're doing the s/// thing all wrong... )
01:54:58 <izabera> :p
01:57:30 <boily> oh, a wild github account!
01:58:11 <boily> izabellora. you are invited to become a cocoonspirator.
01:58:15 -!- moonheart08 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
02:02:16 <izabera> i no wise
02:02:55 <boily> Github now sends an invitation for private repositories, instead of joining you at once.
02:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Why do you want peoples' githubs again?
02:03:34 <hppavilion[1]> ? internet
02:03:35 <HackEgo> The internet is for everything. However many thing can done even without internet too, often better without use of internet, but internet is good too.
02:05:10 <boily> it's to give them commit access to the PDF repo hth
02:05:31 <hppavilion[1]> boily: oth
02:15:27 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a simple equation that calculates the sum of ax+b, for all integers x in a range?
02:15:33 <hppavilion[1]> (preferably 0..n or 1..n)
02:15:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FALSE CHICKEN).
02:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... I'm missing... something
02:17:13 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:18:50 <izabera> like a*1+b + a*2+b + a*3+b ... ?
02:19:37 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Yes
02:19:43 <izabera> that's n*b + a*(n-1)*n/2
02:19:47 <izabera> may be off by 1
02:20:01 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I already have an answer to this problem, now I just need to make it pretty
02:20:10 -!- gniourf has joined.
02:21:24 -!- gniourf has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
02:26:05 -!- gniourf has joined.
02:27:17 <oerjan> izabera: it's off by 1 in one term or the other, dependent on whether the range is 0..n or 1..n hth
02:27:34 <oerjan> or wait
02:27:34 <izabera> yeah sorry about that
02:27:50 <izabera> i didn't really check
02:28:24 <oerjan> anyway, n*b + a*n*(n+1)/2 for 1..n
02:30:43 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
02:35:05 -!- clog_ has quit (Quit: ^C).
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02:46:13 <hppavilion[1]> In Soviet Russia... Big Brother still watches YOU... what did YOU expect?
02:51:17 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:53:18 <oerjan> ? soviet russia
02:53:19 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ soviet russia?
02:53:26 <oerjan> ? soviet union
02:53:27 <HackEgo> In ancient history, the Soviet Union used to be the THEM. They believed in absurd principles like "Better Red than Dead". Then Ronald Reagan invented Star Wars to destroy it, after which there seemed to be no the THEM for a while.
02:54:47 <shachaf> And now?
02:54:50 <shachaf> ? the THEM
02:54:50 <HackEgo> Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons.
02:55:50 <tswett> Today I read the first part of a webcomic called "The Din".
02:55:56 <tswett> I learned what it's about.
02:55:58 <tswett> It's about a din.
02:57:52 <shachaf> is the author a dinner
02:58:46 <oerjan> le/rn soviet russia//Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination.
02:58:48 <HackEgo> Relearned 'soviet russia': /Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination.
02:59:21 <shachaf> relearned?
02:59:23 <shachaf> Oh, right.
02:59:37 <oerjan> oops
03:00:07 <shachaf> dowg soviet russia
03:00:07 <oerjan> what now.
03:00:10 <HackEgo> 2016-10-19 <oerjän> le/rn soviet russia//Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination. \ 2016-09-25 <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 <evilips̈e>  chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-05-31 <shachäf> revert 8238
03:00:15 <shachaf> leave it hth
03:00:23 <hppavilion[1]> In Soviet Ukraine...
03:00:28 <oerjan> before wisdom/soviet russia
03:00:32 <HackEgo> wisdom/soviet russia//¯\(°​_o)/¯ soviet russia?
03:00:36 <shachaf> fizzie: have you considered rewriting history to filter out those annoying edits twh
03:00:38 <oerjan> ...darn
03:00:43 <shachaf> ? blah blah
03:00:43 <HackEgo> blah blah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:00:54 <oerjan> shachaf: caught by my own joke :(
03:01:02 <oerjan> well, it may have been mine
03:01:04 <shachaf>  dowg soviet\ russia | tac
03:01:06 <HackEgo> 2016-04-14 <oerjän> le/rn soviet russia/\xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)/\xc2\xaf soviet russia? \ 2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> slashlearn soviet russia/In soviet russia, this wisdom entry reads you. \ 2016-04-17 <int-̈e> revert \ 2016-05-31 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn soviet russia/In soviet russia, this wisdom entry /would/ read you if it weren\'t for
03:01:09 <hppavilion[1]> (Challenge: All former constituents of the USSR must be given a distinct translation of normal facts that is true within its Soviet borders)
03:01:19 <oerjan> slwd soviet russia//s,/,,
03:01:21 <HackEgo> wisdom/soviet russia//Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination.
03:01:42 <shachaf> oerjan: Maybe we should switch le/rn to use // for consistency?
03:02:16 <hppavilion[1]> (e.g. when normally [x] =a> [y], in Soviet Russia, [y] =a> [x])
03:03:40 <hppavilion[1]> (Facts are provided as a 3-tuple of 2-tuples ((actor, desc1), (actee, desc2), (act, manner)) )
03:03:53 <shachaf> i,i le//rn http://http:// indicates an HTTP URL.
03:04:21 -!- yorick_ has joined.
03:05:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Only if we also have le///rn, le////rn, etc.
03:05:10 <tswett> ? backwards
03:05:12 <HackEgo> ​¯\(o​_°)/¯ ?sdrawkcab
03:05:25 <hppavilion[1]> ? forwards
03:05:25 <HackEgo> forwards? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:05:26 <shachaf> What?
03:05:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we do have that automatically.
03:05:37 <hppavilion[1]> ...not sure if a joke... or actually there
03:05:38 <shachaf> le/rn and le//rn already exist, and split on / and // respectively
03:05:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh
03:05:47 <hppavilion[1]> cat wisdom/forwards
03:05:47 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/forwards: No such file or directory
03:05:48 <shachaf> I'm proposing making le/rn split on //
03:06:00 <hppavilion[1]> le/rn forwards/forwards? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:06:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'forwards': forwards? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:06:15 <shachaf> forget forwards
03:06:17 <HackEgo> Forget what?
03:06:20 <tswett> le//rn Since when does le//rn exist?
03:06:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: :,(
03:06:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'since when does le': rn exist?
03:06:25 <hppavilion[1]> I think it was totally worth it
03:06:31 <tswett> forget since when does le
03:06:33 <HackEgo> Forget what?
03:06:48 <tswett> Next question: how does le//rn exist?
03:06:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But the pun is better if there's ACTUALLY a file, for no reason at all
03:06:59 <tswett> Aren't bin/le/rn and bin/le//rn the same path?
03:06:59 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
03:07:13 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: n//o?
03:07:15 <shachaf> They're distinct paths that refer to the same file.
03:07:57 <tswett>  echo $0 03:07:58 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/ 03:08:32 <tswett> run ln -s ../ le////temp 03:08:33 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 03:08:40 <tswett> run ln -s '../' le////temp 03:08:42 <HackEgo> No output. 03:08:46 <tswett> le////temp echo$0
03:08:47 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le////temp: No such file or directory
03:08:58 <shachaf> what are you doing tdnh
03:09:12 <hppavilion[1]> In America, radiation poisoning kills you slowly. In Soviet Kazakhstan, radiation poisoning slows you lethally!
03:09:32 <tswett> I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing hth.
03:09:36 <tswett> file le/temp
03:09:37 <HackEgo> le/temp: broken symbolic link to ../'
03:10:00 <tswett> rm le/temp
03:10:02 <HackEgo> No output.
03:10:05 <shachaf> if you need to experiment you can do it in tmp/
03:10:19 <shachaf> perhaps in /msg
03:10:43 <hppavilion[1]> In total, there are 719 soviet republics, plus America which has all the facts straight
03:12:48 <hppavilion[1]> (There aren't nearly enough countries in the real world, so we'll have to choose fictional countries too)
03:13:23 <hppavilion[1]> (In Soviet Narnia, Aslan teach YOU values to Christianity!)
03:13:24 <tswett> ? СССР
03:13:25 <HackEgo> ​СССР? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:13:29 <tswett> ? CCCP
03:13:30 <HackEgo> CCCP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:13:40 <tswett> le/rn CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
03:13:40 <HackEgo> No output.
03:13:41 <hppavilion[1]> ? SCP
03:13:42 <HackEgo> SCP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:13:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's not even backwards hth
03:14:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Only Soviet Russia is backwards, other Soviet countries use different permutations
03:14:06 <tswett> ? cccp
03:14:07 <HackEgo> cccp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:14:10 <shachaf> ? ☭
03:14:10 <HackEgo> ​☭? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:14:11 <hppavilion[1]> hth
03:14:24 <tswett> Whoosp.
03:14:31 <tswett> learn CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
03:14:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'cccp': CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
03:14:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:14:57 <oerjan> unidecode CCCPСССР
03:14:59 <HackEgo> ​[U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] [U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] [U+0043 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] [U+0050 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER P] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER]
03:15:57 <tswett> learn СССР is the Russian way of writing USSR. They like to write U as С sometimes.
03:15:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'СССР': СССР is the Russian way of writing USSR. They like to write U as С sometimes.
03:16:30 <shachaf> not wisdom
03:16:34 <tswett> run mv wisdom/СССР wisdom/ссср
03:16:36 <HackEgo> No output.
03:16:43 <tswett> All this Cyrillic is so confusing.
03:17:18 <oerjan> tswett: um the lower casing only works for english alphabet and Ø hth
03:17:25 <oerjan> (and maybe a couple other letters)
03:17:30 <tswett> thn
03:17:50 <oerjan> and in fact, there are wisdoms differing on the rest
03:19:11 <hppavilion[1]> ? ø
03:19:12 <HackEgo> ​ø is not going anywhere.
03:19:17 <hppavilion[1]> ? nø
03:19:17 <HackEgo> nø? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:20:28 <oerjan> ? å
03:20:29 <HackEgo> ​å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters.
03:20:31 <oerjan> ? Å
03:20:33 <HackEgo> ​Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
03:21:17 <oerjan> hm if that's the only one, then it would be sort of redundant once it's fixed...
03:21:55 <shachaf> I think HackEgo's issue is that it doesn't understand uppercase letters.
03:22:14 <hppavilion[1]> le/rn nø/nø means 'Char', apparently. Maybe like when you burn a lot?
03:22:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'nø': nø means 'Char', apparently. Maybe like when you burn a lot?
03:22:23 <hppavilion[1]> (that's a 'no means no' pun hth)
03:22:28 <shachaf> And the etymology (or at least itymology) or "uppercase" letter is that they're letters in the "upper case", from the old days of type-setting.
03:22:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: what
03:22:43 <shachaf> So it's more an issue with understanding letters on top of things.
03:22:56 -!- imode has joined.
03:23:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: what?
03:23:12 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it makes no sense hth
03:23:28 <zgrep> <tswett> All this Cyrillic is so confusing. <-- сыриллик из нот конфузинг
03:23:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It's Hawaiian, apparently
03:23:42 <shachaf> it's not really justified
03:23:48 <shachaf> i would dewisdom it, if it was up to me
03:23:52 <hppavilion[1]> Not Norwegian
03:23:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: We have a handy new command for that now
03:24:15 <hppavilion[1]> ? this
03:24:15 <tswett> I love writing languages in the wrong alphabet.
03:24:15 <HackEgo> this is a word
03:24:30 <hppavilion[1]> ? uvula
03:24:31 <HackEgo> uvula? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:25:21 <hppavilion[1]> help
03:25:21 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "<command>", or "run <command>" for full shell commands. "fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and$PWD/bin is in $PATH.$PWD is a mercurial repository, "revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:25:27 <zgrep> ? volvo
03:25:28 <HackEgo> volvo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:25:37 <zgrep> ? cccp
03:25:38 <HackEgo> CCCP is a misspelling of СССР.
03:25:41 <zgrep> Hehe.
03:25:50 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i am pretty sure hawaiian does not have "ø" hth
03:25:51 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, apparently we don't anymore
03:25:55 <zgrep> Communist Cravings Cannot Prosper
03:25:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I was too
03:26:33 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But 'no' and 'nø' translate differently
03:26:41 <hppavilion[1]> Presumably it's just a different way of transcribing
03:27:38 <tswett> ? СССР
03:27:38 <HackEgo> ​СССР? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:27:57 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: We have a handy new command for that now <-- you mean a handy _old_ command hth
03:28:07 <tswett> run ln -s wisdom/ссср wisdom/СССР
03:28:09 <HackEgo> No output.
03:28:11 <tswett> ? СССР
03:28:11 <HackEgo> ​СССР? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:28:14 <tswett> Whoops.
03:28:25 <tswett> run rm wisdom/СССР
03:28:27 <HackEgo> No output.
03:28:31 <tswett> run ln -s ссср wisdom/СССР
03:28:33 <HackEgo> No output.
03:28:34 <tswett> ? СССР
03:28:35 <HackEgo> ​СССР is the Russian way of writing USSR. They like to write U as С sometimes.
03:29:07 <shachaf> You mean they like to write U and S as С
03:29:21 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Presumably it's just a different way of transcribing <-- i am also pretty sure hawaiian is written in a mostly latin alphabet.
03:29:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Pretty sure ø counts as a latin alphabet character
03:30:35 <tswett> learn СССР is the Russian way of writing USSR. The Cyrillic letter С means S, and it also means U.
03:30:37 <HackEgo> Relearned 'СССР': СССР is the Russian way of writing USSR. The Cyrillic letter С means S, and it also means U.
03:30:56 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: what i mean is, you wouldn't transcribe hawaiian.
03:31:00 <ybden> ? balrog
03:31:01 <HackEgo> Balrogs live at the bottom of the world.
03:31:08 <hppavilion[1]> Oh?
03:31:08 <ybden> ^ context for this?
03:31:16 <hppavilion[1]> ybden: LotR hth
03:31:23 <ais523> oerjan: that "hawaiian" needs extra diareses
03:31:40 <ais523> possibly "hawaïiän"
03:31:52 <ais523> or "hawaiïän"
03:32:05 <ais523> I'm not 100% sure how it's pronounced
03:32:16 <oerjan> ais523: hawaiian except it's not that 
03:32:37 <shachaf> what about balrogues twh
03:32:47 <ybden> hppavilion[1]: thanks
03:32:51 <oerjan> Hawaiʻi
03:33:25 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: huh-why-yen iirc
03:33:37 <shachaf> H̀awaií´
03:33:37 <hppavilion[1]> (I can break out the IPA if needed)
03:33:50 <shachaf> oops
03:33:52 <hppavilion[1]> ´help
03:33:57 <hppavilion[1]> :(
03:34:07 <hppavilion[1]> I was hoping that would trigger evil alternate dimension HackEgo
03:34:22 <shachaf> it did
03:34:29 <shachaf> but the output is in the evil alternate dimension
03:34:55 <shachaf> http://kilgoretroutstories.tumblr.com/post/16737051380/maniacs-in-the-fourth-dimension-by-kilgore hth
03:35:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Then why didn't our HackEgo respond to a query from evil alternate dimension macbookair_1 tdnh
03:35:53 <hppavilion[1]> s/1/j/
03:37:46 <shachaf> evil oerjan has already banned that user
03:37:59 <shachaf> in fact evil oerjan has banned almost everyone
03:38:16 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
03:38:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: itym evil aeryon hth
03:38:58 <shachaf> idnmt tyvm
03:39:27 <hppavilion[1]> atvlym oeryan
03:39:46 <shachaf> ? oerjan
03:39:47 <HackEgo> Your mysterious weevil bulgarian woof octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:40:24 <tswett> "atvlym"? twh
03:40:46 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: laeftr hth
03:41:01 <tswett> os
03:41:10 <hppavilion[1]> ? os
03:41:11 <HackEgo> Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway.
03:41:15 <shachaf> slwd oerjan//s#mysterious#renouned itymologist#;s#we##
03:41:17 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your renouned itymologist evil bulgarian woof octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:42:20 <hppavilion[1]> ...wait, isn't 'us' already plural?
03:42:23 <hppavilion[1]> Or is that part of the joke
03:42:57 <shachaf> slwd oerjan//s#mildly#passionfruitly#;s# and passion fruit##
03:43:00 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your renouned itymologist evil bulgarian woof octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:43:05 <tswett> It's probably part of the joke.
03:43:14 <tswett> I don't know who wrote the wisdom entry for "os" or why.
03:43:17 <hppavilion[1]> Thought so
03:43:21 <tswett> ? sex
03:43:21 <hppavilion[1]> cwlprits os
03:43:24 <HackEgo> Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on the author's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex.
03:43:24 <HackEgo> fizzïe evilips̈e oerjan_nop̈e oerjän maurïs tsweẗt
03:43:31 <tswett> I used to not know who had written the wisdom entry for sex.
03:43:46 <shachaf> slwd oerjan//s#bulgarian woof ##
03:43:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your renouned itymologist evil octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
03:44:08 <shachaf> isn't it goof, bulgarian woof
03:44:17 <tswett> Suggest "suture computation" wth?
03:44:31 <tswett> cwlprits sex
03:44:32 <HackEgo> fizzïe evilips̈e tsweẗt oerjän oerjän tsweẗt
03:44:36 <shachaf> twnh
03:44:44 <tswett> I looked up who wrote the wisdom entry for sex and was surprised to find that it was me.
03:44:51 <shachaf>  dowg oerjan | grep lic
03:44:53 <HackEgo> 2016-10-18 <oerjän> slwd oerjan//s/comput/complic/
03:45:03 <hppavilion[1]> Whoa, ẗ is a cool diacriticism
03:45:25 <shachaf> What, you rate diacritics now?
03:45:32 <shachaf> Some sort of diacritic critic?
03:46:02 <shachaf> i,i diacritique
03:46:06 <shachaf> diakritik?
03:46:14 <hppavilion[1]> "<insert name pun> is/was a noted diacritic..."
03:48:27 <oerjan> Diakritik der reinen Vernunft
03:48:33 <shachaf> http://hca.gilead.org.il/somethin.html is a story by Hans Christian Andersen.
03:48:44 <shachaf> There's a character who was a critic all his life.
03:48:51 <shachaf> So everyone expected him to diacritic.
03:48:55 <shachaf> (And he did.)
03:49:10 <oerjan> i suspect that wasn't andersen's pun
03:49:22 <hppavilion[1]> How about... röbert ebĕrt
03:49:38 <shachaf> oerjan: Was there a pun?
03:50:55 <tswett> Hey, let me give y'all guys a piece of code I wrote.
03:51:16 <tswett> public inductive plus_zero_left(x : Nat) : plus(zero, x) = x over x { zero := plus.zero(zero); succ(y) := path plus(zero, succ(y)) rewrite plus.succ to succ(plus(zero, y)) rewrite base to succ(y) end; }
03:51:20 <tswett> It's free of charge.
03:55:46 <oerjan> shachaf: "diacritic" hth
03:56:43 <shachaf> oerjan: I mean: Did Andersen have a pun in mind?
03:56:50 <shachaf> But maybe you didn't intend the sentence that way.
03:58:22 <oerjan> nope
03:59:59 <shachaf> Why does the second derivative have two arguments?
04:00:05 <shachaf> What does it mean to vary the first or the second one?
04:00:56 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: ⸘What LANGUAGE is this‽
04:01:11 <hppavilion[1]> My best guess is Coq
04:03:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: http://hca.gilead.org.il/somethin.html really makes the t-v distinction important
04:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> To the point that it specifies the use of the word 'thou' as an insult, which nobody today understands in the slightest
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04:05:07 <shachaf> I suspect that it's translated from Danish.
04:05:16 <shachaf> Anyway, I think people today understand that.
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04:08:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I wouldn't if I hadn't clicked on a random video at some point to learn it
04:08:59 <hppavilion[1]> I still like the idea of a complex system of honorific cursing
04:11:23 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: some language I'm making.
04:11:31 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Ah
04:11:53 <tswett> I'm trying to write a compiler from itself into C#.
04:12:12 <tswett> Which, yeah, kind of presents an obvious bootstrapping problem.
04:14:42 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: ...yeah
04:15:04 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure you generally write the normal-language compiler FIRST, THEN you self-host
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05:13:32 <shachaf> What's the derivative of the sphere x^2+y^2+z^2=1?
05:23:05 <oerjan> surely that's obvious
05:23:58 <oerjan> and once again, it amounts to the radius being normal to any tangent vector
05:24:08 <shachaf> How would you write it?
05:24:45 <oerjan> 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0
05:25:06 <shachaf> Are you allowed to do that?
05:25:22 <oerjan> well add a /dt to taste
05:25:44 <shachaf> Oh, you're still parameterizing everything in terms of t. #scow
05:26:01 <shachaf> Anyway the derivative at any point is a plane.
05:26:18 <shachaf> \(x,y,z) -> ...
05:27:04 <oerjan> you might want to ask someone who actually learned differential geometry properly...
05:27:35 <shachaf> Let's see what x dx + y dy + z dz = 0 does.
05:28:15 <shachaf> dy/dx = -z/y dz/dx - x/y ?
05:28:35 <shachaf> I guess that's a "total derivative".
05:28:51 <shachaf> Where the "partial derivative" ∂y/∂x = -x/y
05:29:18 <quintopia> i learned the first couple of chapters
05:29:39 <quintopia> oerjan is correct of course
05:31:01 <shachaf> I guess you can say: \(x,y,z) -> \(dx,dy,dz) -> x*dx + y*dy + z*dz
05:31:23 <shachaf> The plane is the zero set of that linear map.
05:31:27 <shachaf> Is that right?
05:32:55 <shachaf> Or equivalently, \(x,y,z) -> x dx + y dy + z dz
05:33:08 <shachaf> Where d{x,y,z} are a covector basis for the tangent space.
05:34:18 <shachaf> Is that right?
05:34:35 <quintopia> something feels off about it
05:36:22 <shachaf> What?
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05:38:27 <quintopia> i mean, its the correct *family* of planes. but how do you use it to specify tangent planes to a *particular* sphere? just add the constraint on (x,y,z)?
05:39:44 <shachaf> For any point on the sphere, that function specifies a tangent plane.
05:39:52 <shachaf> This happens to work for a sphere of any radius.
05:40:01 <quintopia> yes.
05:40:20 <shachaf> But if your sphere has radius 1 then you shouldn't use that function on other points.
05:40:29 <shachaf> The domain is the sphere, I guess.
05:40:57 <quintopia> i guess you just add the other constraint if you want "the set of tangent planes to this particular sphere"
05:41:22 <quintopia> nvm mind
05:41:29 <quintopia> it was a silly issue
05:41:42 <quintopia> you do the same thing with any diffeq
06:02:58 <shachaf> oerjan: What's the second derivative of the sphere?
06:03:34 <oerjan> not a clue hth
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07:05:20 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 32 1440 350
07:05:20 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 2376.48906005893
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07:08:17 <hppavilion[1]> How DOES one combine two tones? Do you just add their values at each interval, or... what?
07:09:07 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, it probably won't be add so much as... something, maybe 1/((1-(1/a))+(1-(1/b)))? )
07:10:08 <shachaf> What is a tone?
07:10:16 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Oh, right
07:10:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Tone like a sound. Like, I generate waveforms that play a certain wavelength at a certain frequency with a certain amplitude, and I want to play two at once
07:11:27 <shachaf> OK, so what is a tone?
07:11:40 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Tone = pitch/note/whatever
07:11:54 <hppavilion[1]> It's a sound at a constant Hz
07:11:56 <shachaf> Are a and b in your expression tones? What are their types?
07:12:11 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Values in hertz
07:12:41 <hppavilion[1]> (Ideally, they're arbitrary real numbers, but obviously not properly)
07:13:11 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no, that's not it
07:13:14 <shachaf> And what do you do with those values?
07:13:29 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Right, right, I'm reading my own message wrong
07:13:39 <hppavilion[1]> OK, I'm going to need to think
07:14:45 <hppavilion[1]> I have a function that generates a waveform (typically sinusoidal) with a specific frequency and amplitude (it appears wavelength is irrelevant here; maybe I'm just forgetting that it means something else)
07:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> It generates it by taking the attributes and creating an array of bytes for the samples
07:15:10 <shachaf> Are you saying that a tone is a waveform?
07:15:38 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm confusing myself. Basically I'm trying to say a-note-played-for-a-duration
07:16:06 <shachaf> i know you are hth
07:16:13 <hppavilion[1]> tdh
07:16:14 <shachaf> Are you saying that some waveforms represent tones and others don't?
07:16:22 <hppavilion[1]> I'm honestly not sure at this point
07:16:28 <shachaf> What's a waveform?
07:16:37 <hppavilion[1]> Allow me to rearead the code- I haven't done this for a while
07:17:13 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm... I believe when I've been saying 'waveform' I mean 'the bytearray of samples that represents what sound to make'
07:19:00 <shachaf> maybe you should mean something else hth
07:19:07 <hppavilion[1]> I should
07:19:35 <shachaf> You could go by what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveform says.
07:20:12 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's more that I know what I mean and I'm using related-but-wrong words
07:20:32 <shachaf> I don't know anything about sound, but those pictures there look like like periodic functions of time to me.
07:20:54 <shachaf> So maybe you can say that a waveform is a function.
07:20:59 <hppavilion[1]> OK... I have a function gen_sine(frequency, duration, volume, sample_rate=22050) that takes those variables and returns an array of bytes representing... samples. I don't understand how the speaker itself works.
07:21:20 <shachaf> Well, what is sound?
07:21:25 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Vibrations
07:21:46 <hppavilion[1]> But I'm not sure what the samples represent; I want to say "how much to vibrate", but I feel like that makes no sense
07:22:03 <hppavilion[1]> I guess a sample is probably how much to vibrate... or something...
07:22:19 <shachaf> You should forget the samples for a bit and look at that page.
07:22:33 <shachaf> The samples are an approximation of something. That's why they're called samples.
07:22:33 <hppavilion[1]> But yes, the sound is basically a periodic function which is USUALLY sinusoidal but COULD be sawtooth or triangle or square or whatever
07:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: OK
07:23:56 <shachaf> OK, so the sound is a function.
07:24:00 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
07:24:40 <shachaf> Maybe those samples are sampling the function? Measuring it every so often and looking at the value at each point?
07:24:45 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose it makes sense to skip the bytearray in the theoretical and just say gen_sine(...) returns a sine function
07:25:02 <hppavilion[1]> Yes, that's right, I believe
07:25:05 <shachaf> Like I said I don't know anything about sound, but that seems like a plausible thing for a sample to be.
07:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> And I have an output stream that I can send one function to at a time
07:25:24 <shachaf> OK, so what does your byte array represent?
07:25:45 <shachaf> Maybe it's the value of the function x-second intervals.
07:25:49 <shachaf> What's x?
07:26:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Outputs of the function pre-packaged so they don't have to be calculated WHILE playing
07:26:12 <hppavilion[1]> Theoretically, the bytearray is irrelevant
07:26:24 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: x is the reciprocal of the sample rate
07:26:31 <shachaf> What is the value of x?
07:26:46 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: 1/22050 typically, but it CAN be varied I'm pretty sure
07:27:04 <shachaf> Well, you're the one making the byte array, presumably you should know.
07:27:09 <hppavilion[1]> But 1/22050 is the only thing that matters now
07:27:21 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It can be. I understand this part.
07:27:29 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(signal_processing) confirms it.
07:27:50 <shachaf> OK, well, I learned how samples work now, which I didn't know before, so I'm happy at least.
07:27:53 <shachaf> tdh
07:28:04 <shachaf> Now that you know what a waveform is, what's a tone?
07:28:05 <hppavilion[1]> So when I send the function to the stream, the stream plays the output until the function stops returning data (lets say it returns a Null to indicate that it's done)
07:28:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I think a tone just means a waveform here...
07:28:25 <shachaf> OK.
07:28:32 <\oren\> ❄dvcalc 60.12 2649 400
07:28:32 <\oren\> ☃ Δv = 2635.18424420613
07:28:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But it generally has to be a pretty simple one... presumably...
07:28:45 <shachaf> Then how do you "combine two tones"?
07:28:51 <hppavilion[1]> But there's no definition
07:29:08 <shachaf> Is a tone just a waveform or is it a specific type of waveform?
07:29:17 <shachaf> For example, if you record yourself talking, is that a tone?
07:29:29 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Basically you just find what function to send to the stream to generate a chord; play both sounds together
07:29:55 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I think "tone" is just a kind of not-very-rigorous term I was using because it sounded about right
07:31:06 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_tone says that a tone has to be periodic.
07:31:19 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes! That's right
07:32:04 <hppavilion[1]> So, the note A-below-middle-C as you hear from any instrument (that meets the standard) is the waveform with period of 440/s
07:32:32 <hppavilion[1]> s/below/above/
07:33:28 <shachaf> I think maybe you mean that the frequency is 440/s?
07:33:32 <hppavilion[1]> Middle C's pitch under the same standard is approximately 261.6 (the number is irrational because you change by the 12th root of 2 as you go up one semitone (A -> A#, A# -> B, etc.)
07:33:34 <shachaf> And the period is 1/440 s?
07:33:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes, yes, thank you
07:34:42 <hppavilion[1]> (pitch = frequency, but is the musicier term)
07:35:28 <hppavilion[1]> And I want to figure out how to play multiple notes- say, Middle C and A above middle C- at the same time out of the speakers
07:35:36 <shachaf> OK. So how do you "combine" two waveforms?
07:35:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's exactly what I'm looking for
07:36:13 <shachaf> I speculate that the answer is that you sum the functions at each point.
07:36:37 <hppavilion[1]> It might just be adding them, but it might also be midpoint (mid(a, b) = (a+b)/2) or even something involving harmonic sum
07:37:00 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: See, that's my first thought, but the samples have to be bytes- 0..255. If you try to go higher, it breaks
07:37:42 <hppavilion[1]> I seriously doubt you're supposed to do modulus, but capping it out- the most natural-seeming answer- doesn't seem quite right
07:37:48 <shachaf> OK, I didn't know what the codomain of the waveform was.
07:38:00 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, I forgot to mention that?
07:40:01 <hppavilion[1]> In the program, you multiply sin(t) (t being time) (which has codomain of -1..1 obv.) by 0x7f and add 0x80
07:40:02 <shachaf> Anyway, you can do some experiments now.
07:40:03 <hppavilion[1]> (and round)
07:40:35 <shachaf> If you say a tone is a periodic waveform, and the tone's pitch is its frequency, then the sum of two tones is also a tone, right?
07:40:48 <hppavilion[1]> OK, but I'm pretty tonedeaf (probably), so it'll boil down to more "does it not sound entirely wrong" rather than "does it sound right"
07:40:51 <shachaf> (Since you're not doing bizarro maths so the sum of two periodic functions is probably periodic.)
07:41:18 <shachaf> If you're deaf, it doesn't matter which tones you use.
07:41:54 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not deaf
07:42:03 <hppavilion[1]> Just tonedeaf
07:42:24 <shachaf> Which means you can't distinguish tones?
07:42:35 <hppavilion[1]> No, it's... I don't know if it actually means anything
07:42:38 <shachaf> In that case you don't need to add tones, because they're all equivalent.
07:42:55 <hppavilion[1]> It just means I'm bad at telling if it sounds particularly good or if it's a weird noise
07:43:16 <shachaf> Why do you care about something you can't tell?
07:43:48 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, maybe not
07:43:57 <hppavilion[1]> I think tone deaf might be completely wrong
07:44:11 <shachaf> Anyway, I suspect you can tell if you try it. Play tone A for a bit, and then tone B for a bit, and then play them both.
07:44:27 <shachaf> I mean the "combined" tone for various proposals of combining tones.
07:45:12 <hppavilion[1]> OK, that sounds like it's the solution
07:45:13 <shachaf> Then you can see if you can come up with the effect you want.
07:45:23 <shachaf> (Am I being patronizing or something? I hope not.)
07:46:39 <shachaf> You could also think of what properties you want "combining" to have, and then think of functions that satisfy them.
07:47:21 <hppavilion[1]> Don't think so
07:47:24 <shachaf> For example, if you combine a tone with itself, it should probably keep the same pitch?
07:47:38 <shachaf> How do you play the byte arrays that you generate?
07:47:54 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm pretty sure 'combining' is a defined concept that I just don't know the proper word for
07:48:12 <shachaf> I'm sure.
07:48:14 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I put them in a magic box that comes from a library and it makes it come out of the speakers
07:48:23 <shachaf> What library?
07:48:26 <hppavilion[1]> pyaudio
07:50:48 <hppavilion[1]> (I already can make the computer play Ode to Joy, now I just need to make it so it can play literally any song that requires chords to sound right :P)
07:52:07 <shachaf> This sounds like fun so I'll probably try making some sound.
07:52:46 <shachaf> It looks like the [0..255] codomain thing is called the "sample width" and in some cases it's larger.
07:52:52 <shachaf> But at any rate of course it'll be bounded.
07:53:56 <hppavilion[1]> Ah! That must be what format is
07:54:06 <shachaf> Yes.
08:15:16 <hppavilion[1]> Wow, xkcd did two comics in a row that were directly related that WEREN'T part of a numbered series
08:16:22 <hppavilion[1]> To the point that when I opened today's, it looked similar to yesterday's so I didn't read the main part... I noticed the hovertext was different and figured Randall must have changed it...
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08:38:23 <hppavilion[1]> (I wonder if hackmode is facilitated better with or without syntax highlighting... I have a feeling optimal hackmode is done green-on-black, fullscreen)
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08:43:04 <shachaf> Aha, I've successfully combined two sounds.
08:43:32 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: How?
08:43:34 <hppavilion[1]> :D
08:43:38 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Python?
08:44:25 <shachaf> Yes.
08:44:44 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What's the operation?
08:45:29 <shachaf> Maybe I didn't do it right. Who knows.
08:45:44 <hppavilion[1]> Does it sound right(ish)?
08:58:07 <b_jonas> @messages
08:58:08 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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09:12:39 <izalove> about the factorial problem
09:14:14 <izalove> get x! back from its factorization, then use stirling's approximation to guesstimate x, then compute factorials until you match x!
09:24:21 <olsner> <oerjan> it is possible olsner was quoting him though <- the line about the internet? doesn't look like me at least
09:37:48 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: you just said 'guesstimate'. You must be excommunicated.
09:39:16 <izalove> that ship has sailed
09:39:45 <hppavilion[1]> Question: Are there any places you can go where you can PAY to jump over a shark?
09:40:02 <izalove> why
09:43:54 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: So I can Jump the Shark
09:52:49 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: You *are* supposed to sum the waveforms, that's essentially what happens if you have two pressure waves in air. The end result can be louder (unless you have, say, two pure tones of the same frequency and opposite phase), so you may have to scale the original sources to avoid clipping.
09:52:58 <fizzie> (Also, 8-bit samples are pretty retro; 16 bits would be more reasonable.)
09:53:01 <hppavilion[1]> Figured
09:53:09 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Oh?
09:53:33 <fizzie> I mean, these days people commonly even use floats or doubles for digital audio.
09:53:59 <fizzie> (At least for intermediate processing.)
09:57:08 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: My problem is figuring out what happens when a+b > 2**8 (or, now, 2**16)
09:57:53 <fizzie> The 6-vote answer at http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questions/3581/algorithms-to-mix-audio-signals-without-clipping looks reasonable to me.
09:58:30 <myname> nice, you can use <= to make implications in code. great way to confuse people
09:58:36 <fizzie> But generally "you should avoid that, but if it does happen, you should do a saturating addition".
10:00:00 <fizzie> Also if you are dealing with unsigned samples, you do need to do K+(a-K)+(b-K) instead, where K would be 2^7 or 2^15.
10:01:11 <fizzie> (But preferrably you'd have your audio library give you signed values.)
10:05:33 <fizzie> (In which case you need to avoid values < -2**15 or >= 2**15 as the result of the sum.)
10:06:28 <shachaf> myname: This is why True should be <= False.
10:06:35 <shachaf> Well, <
10:07:15 <myname> shachaf: huh?
10:07:29 <shachaf> That would make the arrow point the right way.
10:07:36 <shachaf> Well, the left way. You know what I mean.
10:08:03 <shachaf> fizzie: oh man, 6-vote answer
10:08:14 <shachaf> that's like a 6-star review
10:08:18 <shachaf> out of 5
10:08:31 <shachaf> or a 6-star general
10:08:40 <fizzie> A 6-star programmer.
10:09:08 <shachaf> too many stars
10:10:21 <lifthrasiir> A-star programmer
10:12:16 <shachaf> Oh, I was asking the other day:
10:12:26 <shachaf> Is there a good online algorithm for strongly connected components?
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10:44:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unispace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50019&oldid=38261 * YSomebody * (+95) added unicode numbers
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10:57:10 <shachaf> Maybe mercurial will be the future.
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11:46:29 <boily> wisdom
11:46:34 <HackEgo> abnf//Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. foo +::= bar. The older ::= syntax will continue to be supported for orthogonal-compatibility purposes.
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11:52:39 <shachaf> dowg abnf
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11:52:42 <HackEgo> 2016-09-25 <fizzïe> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 <evilips̈e>  chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-04-23 <hppavilion[1̈]> le/rn ABNF/Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. foo +::= bar. The older ::= syntax will continue to be supported for orthog
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12:06:09 <b_jonas> ah
12:07:01 <b_jonas> and then there's EBNF and XBNF and SBNF and a lot of other languages for describing a recursive grammar, incompatible with each other, that are called BNF only by their name
12:13:14 <boily> . o O ( how do I macron again? )
12:18:06 <boily> DHelloadshot! in the context of LaTeX.
12:18:15 * boily is upgrading the Neverending PDF.
12:18:33 <boily> is Curry's Paradox a tanebvention?
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12:36:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[VoidLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50020&oldid=49873 * YSomebody * (+232)
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16:43:07 <b_jonas> boily: try \=
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16:49:10 <b_jonas> @tell boily macron: try \=
16:49:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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17:32:41 <\oren\> Yay, my reserved instances are working!
17:36:48 <\oren\> instead of paying 1.3 cents per hour, I'm paying only 0.57 cents per hour!
17:37:04 <\oren\> my computer time just got cheaper!
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17:44:24 <fizzie> Google Compute Engine gives you sustained-use discounts without having to commit to any sort of reservations, just sayin'.
17:51:30 <shachaf> "And if you don't need sustained uptime, it has a few options which are even cheaper," said fizzie preemptively.
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18:02:19 <hppavilion[1]> Law is like the exact opposite of math
18:02:45 <izalove> prove it
18:02:51 <hppavilion[1]> In math, you make certain assumptions (axioms) and use them to derive conclusions (theorems)
18:03:20 <hppavilion[1]> In law, you make certain assumptions (a constitution) and you can do anything you like, UNLESS it violates those assumptions
18:03:51 <izalove> you can do anything you like in math as well, as long as it doesn't violate your axioms
18:06:40 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: Yes, but I'm saying that "the axioms don't disprove it" isn't the same as "it's true"
18:07:07 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, unless your... meta-axioms, I guess? say so, but nobody ever uses that)
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18:16:37 <\oren\> Essays are the opposite of the scientific method
18:17:02 <\oren\> In science, you ask a question and look to the evidence to find the answer
18:17:28 <\oren\> In an essay, you come up with an answer and look for evidence that supports it
18:18:22 <shachaf> I don't think that's what you do in an essay.
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18:22:30 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently a local elementary school used the emergency notification system to urge parents to attend a City Council meeting to oppose opening a Marijuana store
18:22:48 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's what I was taught
18:23:35 <hppavilion[1]> (God, 'j' is THE most overloaded letter- [dʒ], [j], [h], and [w] are all made by it in common english words, and half of those [h]s should be [x]s)
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18:25:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, oil prices are going up
18:25:55 <hppavilion[1]> Yay
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18:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, I can fix my arrow keys (the UP and LEFT buttons aren't working, but it doesn't seem to be a hardware error because they occasionally work for no reason) by hitting LEFT then UP
18:55:29 <hppavilion[1]> And it suddenly works
18:55:33 <hppavilion[1]> And it suddenly works
19:01:37 <hppavilion[1]> But I have to redo it every time. For no apparent reason.
19:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like this has to be a setting or something
19:02:47 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: sometimes my IME messes with some keys
19:03:04 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: IME? No clue what that is
19:03:08 <hppavilion[1]> (Windows. Unfortunately.)
19:03:10 <alercah> input method editor
19:03:14 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
19:03:39 <\oren\> I'm using windows 7
19:04:11 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Oh
19:04:25 <hppavilion[1]> I have no idea WHAT bizarre setting would result in this, or why it would even exist
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19:39:44 <hppavilion[1]> Standard Proposal: SRISCII- Holy Roman Imperial Standard Code for Information Interchange
19:42:33 <myname> s for holy
19:44:04 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes. Holy Roman Empire is abbreviated SRI for Sacrum Romanum Imperium
19:45:14 <myname> well, but that does not work for "holy roman _imperial_"
19:45:57 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The abbreviation is from the Latin name, the full name is in English so it's legible
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22:23:54 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, maybe I should make an aesthetics manual for programmer style preferences...
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22:28:53 <hppavilion[1]> ("Hacksical Aesthetics")
22:42:30 <wob_jonas> man, I've used perl so much that I totally forgot how this classical unix text manipulation stuff works, had to check the manuals again, but now I remember:
22:44:28 <wob_jonas> sort both files (be careful with locale), then (join a b) to find lines shared among them, (join -v1 a b) to find lines only in a, (join -v2 a b) to find lines only in b, sort -k1 and join -j1 to compare only keys in first field, don't use comm because it's horribly confusing and error-prone
22:45:17 <wob_jonas> @messages
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22:53:06 <hppavilion[1]> The difference between a 'quasi-diacritic', which is a diacritical mark that is applied to a symbol, but where the resulting symbol is considered a new letter rather than a letter with a modifier, and a proper diacritic is that a proper diacritic can be used arbitrarily without breaking the rules- it might not be normal, but it's allowed
22:53:42 <hppavilion[1]> Saying ï doesn't make any sense in German, therefor the umlaut is only a quasi-diacritic
22:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> (Similarly, since m-tilde makes no sense, the tilde in n-tilde isn't a true diacritic either.)
22:55:42 <hppavilion[1]> </arbitrary distinction>
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22:58:14 <hppavilion[1]> The symbols ə and ∃ are interesting, because (afaik) they're etymo... graphico...
22:58:31 <hppavilion[1]> OK, now I need to know the etymology of 'etymology', and it's because I ACTUALLY need it
22:59:11 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, etym- (true) -logos (word); etymology is the "true sense" of a word
22:59:26 <hppavilion[1]> So writing origins is etygraphogy
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23:06:01 <myname> well, it should be etymography
23:06:19 <myname> since etym (with the m) is the truth part
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23:17:40 <boily> wisdom
23:17:46 <HackEgo> welcome.fr//Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.)
23:17:53 <boily> @massages-loud
23:17:54 <lambdabot> b_jonas said 6h 28m 43s ago: macron: try \=
23:18:23 <boily> b_jellonas. that was the thing that had to be tried.
23:24:46 <boily> ? deredundatiation # I wish I had coined that word.
23:24:47 <HackEgo> deredundatiation # I wish I had coined that word.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:24:52 <boily> aaaaaaaaaaaurgh.
23:25:03 * boily shiftily looks at HackEgo
23:27:11 <boily>  rm wisdom/doshes
23:27:14 <HackEgo> No output.
23:27:17 <boily> ? doshes
23:27:17 <HackEgo> doshes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:27:20 <boily> ? dosh
23:27:21 <HackEgo> The doshes are what the gostak distims.
23:27:25 <boily> ? doshs
23:27:26 <HackEgo> The doshes are what the gostak distims.
23:27:41 <boily> complain pluralses!
23:27:42 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
23:28:19 <\oren\> "Jebediah Kerman questions Dunian Soveriegnty" "At least through war, there can be an end to this conflict."
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23:39:03 <boily> ? Zarutian
23:39:04 <HackEgo> Zarutian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:39:17 <Taneb> This might be the first year in a long time I'm going to miss Hexham's bonfire night :(
23:39:37 <boily> Tanelle. :(
23:40:14 <Taneb> It's normally around my birthday
23:40:34 <Taneb> This year it's convenient for me to go home midweek over my birthday but I've got lectures on the Friday afternoon
23:40:40 <Taneb> So I miss the bonfire on Saturday
23:40:50 <Taneb> Unless I have a very train-y week
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23:49:24 <oerjan> bohily
23:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> What is the name of the equivalent of a right cone, but where a perpendicular intersection yields an ellipse rather than a circle?
23:56:10 <oerjan> . o O ( a wrong cone )
23:57:01 <oerjan> "Right Cone. A cone that has its apex aligned directly above the center of its base. The base need not be a circle."
23:57:14 <oerjan> so the answer appears to be, still a right cone.
23:57:19 <boily> hellørjan.
23:57:42 <Zarutian> isnt a cone and extrution, along the third axis, of a two dimensional circle with an gradually increasing diameter?
23:58:10 <oerjan> usually. but this definition does not seem to require it.
23:58:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I guess I'm looking for the term 'elliptical cone' properly
23:58:54 <oerjan> cones can include pyramids in some meanings.
23:58:57 <hppavilion[1]> (this one being right)
23:58:58 <izalove> \$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/capacity
23:59:00 <izalove> 103
23:59:02 <izalove> how bit a problem is that?
23:59:03 <Zarutian> so to get an ellipse you cut around 45° angle to that plane?
23:59:09 <izalove> my battery thinks it's charged at 103%
23:59:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If we allow a circle to be a polygon (which is nice sometimes), then yes, a cone is a type of a pyramid
23:59:34 <Zarutian> oerjan: so the base 2d form must not nescisarly be a circle or an ellipse?
23:59:38 <moonheart08> ørjan, i set up a autoreplace.
23:59:42 <oerjan> Zarutian: no. you use an ellipse as base. afa hppavilion[1]'s question is concerned, anyway.
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