< 1477872038 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the log shachaf linked there were 1890 extra lines < 1477872087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fancy. < 1477872105 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Freenode is busy sending lambdabot "cannot send to channel" messages < 1477872124 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric :-n < 1477872125 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be less work than sending it to everyone in this channel < 1477872125 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : C,C 6 < 1477872127 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric :+n < 1477872130 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1477872182 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( does it follow zipf's law ) < 1477872192 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it follows it. < 1477872203 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom zipf < 1477872204 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not wise. < 1477872223 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` grep -FIinrs zipf wisdom/* < 1477872229 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1477872231 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1477872235 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zipf < 1477872236 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477872252 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might have something to do with it < 1477872257 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that is a /lot/ of flags to grep < 1477872260 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was one of my quotes. < 1477872266 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote zipf < 1477872267 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1121) everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. < 1477872279 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is the only number system that matters. < 1477872288 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: err, isn't that missing the normal distribution? < 1477872302 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1477872304 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the most common distribution in existence, due to the central limit theorem? < 1477872321 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, every time I stumble upon that quote I'm like: «comment ai-je pu oublier la distribution normale...» < 1477872324 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is the distribution that I had given the cdf for? < 1477872333 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean x/(x+1) what is that one called? < 1477872344 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically that doesn't prevent it from being a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. < 1477872367 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you may be interested in the above mode of spam hth < 1477872434 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well it's df is -log(x+1), i think < 1477872446 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1477872460 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1477872481 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong direction, it's -1/(x+1)^2 < 1477872500 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1477872503 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-- < 1477872507 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the signs cancel < 1477872516 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :df is 1/(x+1)^2 dx hth < 1477872533 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I figured that already < 1477872538 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't tell me what it is called, though < 1477872685 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1477872690 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Elronnd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50061&oldid=50028 5* 03Elronnd 5* (-3) 10 < 1477872742 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477872744 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy 3 < 1477872748 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mr- 3 < 1477872750 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477872768 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta have monqy < 1477872797 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1477872822 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it may be beta prime distribution with α, β = 1 < 1477872853 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_prime_distribution < 1477872876 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(found via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_probability_distributions#Supported_on_semi-infinite_intervals.2C_usually_.5B0.2C.E2.88.9E.29) < 1477872944 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1477872972 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, looks like it < 1477872995 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1477873091 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that how incomplete beta function is working? < 1477873207 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :B(a,b) = (a-1)!(b-1)!/(a+b-1)! was listed on the page for it < 1477873279 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_function#Incomplete_beta_function but this doesn't need that. < 1477873309 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ordinary beta < 1477873355 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: Helloronnd. shachaf unleashed lambdie on us in a catastrophic accident. < 1477873504 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e lambdabot has been misbehaving hth < 1477873509 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er--- < 1477873542 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still works in private, at least < 1477873717 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1477874020 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1477874064 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized the esolang I made has 256^256^256 possible states < 1477874092 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should change it to 4^4^4 < 1477874107 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :too big < 1477874118 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^3^3? < 1477874135 0 :Yurume_____!23f9939a@121.78.85.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so FSM? < 1477874137 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1^1^1 seems like the sweet spot < 1477874138 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems nice and managable, but hard to do math with < 1477874152 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, *up to* < 1477874165 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's up to 256 dimensions < 1477874170 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 256 size < 1477874189 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :& up to 256 distinct values a cell can hold < 1477874201 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's to say, it can only hold one) < 1477874217 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the program specifies the size of those numbers < 1477874227 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yurume_____: FSM? < 1477874237 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? FSM < 1477874239 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An FSM is a state machine with noodly appendages. < 1477874249 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :...k < 1477874261 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1477874296 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is lambdabot down to 1 yet? < 1477874301 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1477874305 0 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan < 1477874311 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477874313 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 23 1 < 1477874317 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2h 1 < 1477874319 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477874322 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1477874326 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan < 1477874342 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are they alphabetical within each size? < 1477874365 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's lambdabot again? < 1477874381 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been away for a while
< 1477874397 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :signs point to yes. < 1477874419 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: haskell bot < 1477874461 0 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1477874467 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however its flood protection has become buggy < 1477874494 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we gave a command that dumps its entire karma database... < 1477874521 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Elronnd < 1477874523 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd desperately wants this entry to say something. < 1477875570 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? firefy < 1477875571 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477875572 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? firefly < 1477875573 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. < 1477875589 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477875592 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477875614 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo2 < 1477875742 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws an ultraball at moo2
< 1477875775 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1477875805 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION moo^3s
< 1477875837 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-giac moo="moo"; moo^3 < 1477875838 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added 0 synonyms moo="moo",moo^3 // Time 0 // Total time 0 < 1477875845 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1477875856 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facedesks
< 1477875865 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y u no err < 1477875875 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-giac )( < 1477875876 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help file /usr/share/giac/doc/local/aide_cas not found Added 0 synonyms :1: syntax error, unexpected T_END_PAR line 1 col 1 at ) ")(" // Time 0 // Total time 0 < 1477875944 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he's going to specify his language in terms of term rewriting.
< 1477875962 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna be weird considering blocks are effectively infinite loops. < 1477875974 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what does an infinite loop evaluate to" is something I need to ask myself. < 1477876002 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like ~ATH < 1477876007 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1477876058 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? aisis < 1477876059 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aisis? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477876064 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? aesis523 < 1477876065 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aesis523? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477876093 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477876095 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ivanm 1 < 1477876099 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ix 1 < 1477876101 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477876105 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1477876107 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wat < 1477876113 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it just pick up where it left off? < 1477876114 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow lmbdabot is derping < 1477876114 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? theseus < 1477876115 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theseus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477876152 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if I have an infinite loop, [], I just say "well that's it. that's the final result." < 1477876165 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-pyc print "lambdabot is derping" < 1477876165 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :​lambdabot is derping | < 1477876175 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have two infinite loops next to eachother, I only have one loop. < 1477876212 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have an infinite loop nested in another infinite loop, I have one loop. < 1477876247 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have [;], I yield nothing. if I have [[;]], I yield []. if I have [;][], I yield []. < 1477876249 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, wont e very complete without a relative jump or a break statemet < 1477876262 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is break. ? is conditional break. < 1477876264 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn theseus/Theseus was a Greek inventor who was charged with impossible-to-detect murder. He was represented by Protagoras and found not guilty. He changed his name to escape the publicity and has continued inventing to this day. < 1477876267 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'theseus': Theseus was a Greek inventor who was charged with impossible-to-detect murder. He was represented by Protagoras and found not guilty. He changed his name to escape the publicity and has continued inventing to this day. < 1477876269 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1477876275 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1477876292 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have the whole language spec'd out and can write programs in it, but I'm wanting to specify it without english. < 1477876297 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rewrite rules are reasonable. < 1477876302 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are some of the other commands? < 1477876341 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has 32 commands, each of which are single characters. the whole command set is ?;[],`'+-*/%&|~^()<>=!@${}.:#_\" < 1477876344 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Ω = (S I I (S I I)) < 1477876364 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Look at the new wisdom :D < 1477876378 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is stack based. or, if you wanna get fancier, the language is concatenative. < 1477876393 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode, sounds neat < 1477876403 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is equivalent to while(1){}. ; is equivalent to break;. ? is equivalent to if(stack[top] == 0) {break;} < 1477876404 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you implet it let me know < 1477876407 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wisdum? wisdumite? wisdomoid? wisdoid? How about wisdus? Yeah, wisdus is good) < 1477876422 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I will. I have a half-baked interpreter right now but it's very trivial to translate into C or Forth to get an actual result. < 1477876435 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write an interpreter in a day. < 1477876439 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably an hour or two. < 1477876443 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation is also good :p < 1477876467 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, one moment while I translate factorial out to C (won't compile because I'm missing a header) < 1477876496 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Depends on what you're interpreting < 1477876499 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has idea
< 1477876501 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1477876542 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/HlQ1/c < 1477876557 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a factorial function. the original code is ,:,1-[,:?,:,2#*,1#,1-]. < 1477876590 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a loop based language that has a random access list of loops, the 'value' read is 1 if the loop+loop codr is running, slse zero, the commands beside loops are: ! ? and ; < 1477876611 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/DejSL8dp < 1477876618 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasonably commented version of the factorial function. < 1477876619 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is set, ; is break, and ? is conditional < 1477876630 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it will be pdfed in the next pass. praise be the tanebventions! < 1477876666 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: OK :D < 1477876672 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhe memory holds infinite amounts, and th language is theoretically turing complete < 1477876677 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nav < 1477876678 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nav? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477876692 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is `?nav part of the topic, or did I add that on my end accidentally? < 1477876717 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it was me < 1477876729 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net TOPIC #esoteric :News: esolang contest at http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | The intrapumpkin hub of esoteric pizza discussion and development | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive bot testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1477876736 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's cool is that using these simple kinds of commands you can make things that look and behave like if-else statements. < 1477876787 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1477876794 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :[condition] [,:?. true ,~;] [~? false ;] < 1477876809 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(condition) { true } else { false } < 1477876832 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : did it just pick up where it left off? <-- no, it's just that slow hth < 1477876853 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I noticed.. kind of hilarious. < 1477876965 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is off to count the karmic sheep
< 1477876972 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FORCE CHICKEN < 1477876990 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the itymology of intrapumpkin is interpumpkin hth < 1477877004 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pizza is just out of place there < 1477877161 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION derps
< 1477877301 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-join #esoteric-blh < 1477877301 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not have permission to use this command. < 1477877305 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1477877319 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oright < 1477877322 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :webchat < 1477877434 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you misspelled it anyway :-p < 1477877455 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1477877461 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* :-P < 1477877478 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1477877492 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1477877878 0 :moonythedwarf!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477877901 0 :moonythedwarf!?@? NICK :Guest80529 < 1477877914 0 :Guest80529!?@? NICK :moony < 1477877933 0 :moony!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 QUIT :Changing host < 1477877933 0 :moony!4c014880@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1477877933 0 :moony!4c014880@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Changing host < 1477877933 0 :moony!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477878073 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Gen VI is the first gen without a third game (or equivalent) in it... < 1477878091 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game Freak implied they were doing something weird with it that time 'round. < 1477878103 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that "something weird" is a game in the next gen. < 1477878631 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Emerald didn't follow Ruby and Sapphire chronologically < 1477878901 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why gen VI doesn't have a third game, though, the first two weren't very good :-( < 1477878947 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1477878962 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gen 6 is alpha sapphire and omega ruby. < 1477878983 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of. I guess. < 1477879010 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the world forgot about X and Y. < 1477879215 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the only thing XY do better than the previous games is dressing up (it also does this better than future games), and the multiple regional pokédexes thing < 1477879223 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is either the same or worse < 1477879301 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just boring to me. < 1477879323 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because the difficulty level is too low to make the battle interesting, and its plot is badly designed too < 1477879340 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get much enjoyment from the story either < 1477879365 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't the difficulty or the plot for me, it was the fact that there was just too much... walking. < 1477879379 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you get rollerskates fairly early < 1477879388 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but they continually compensate for that. < 1477879389 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you probably get the bicycle too late < 1477879403 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. after you get the rollerskates, everything just seems like it takes way too long. < 1477879426 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a lot of stuff that the game kinda wants you to do but you don't have to do. < 1477879430 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's partly because the game's very linear but nonetheless requires backtracking < 1477879431 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that stupid glamor shot thing. < 1477879438 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or trainer video or something. < 1477879467 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the earlier Pokémon games, you had a lot of freedom of where to go after a bit; that means you spend much of your time exploring rather than running around < 1477879471 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took way too long to get from A to B. compare that to RSE where nearly every path was the same regardless of your mode of transportation. < 1477879472 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have flexibility to choose a better route < 1477879498 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the later games (BW onwards, although DPP was starting to get that way) the routes are set < 1477879511 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only choice is whether to skip or do optional dungeons < 1477879525 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going with the "how long can we make this game" approach. < 1477879542 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How DOES one viginere encrypt a message containing diacritics when the diacritics are not considered to produce distinct letters? < 1477879542 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, having a lot of gameplay is good, but having a lot of filler is bad < 1477879570 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just filler... every location seemed to have a purpose in RSE and earlier games. < 1477879574 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, physical locations made sense. < 1477879579 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what the fuck is the reflection cave. < 1477879591 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSE has scorched slab < 1477879641 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's completely insignificant and IIRC nothing makes you go there < 1477879652 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1477879682 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the 2D aspect of pokemon makes me like it. < 1477879690 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's a bunch of tiles. < 1477879693 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think later games have cared too much about being visually interesting than interesting from an activity point of view < 1477879698 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare the gyms in RSE to those in XY < 1477879708 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the RSE gyms are mindbenders. < 1477879721 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XY's gyms are nearly always "go from place to place fighting trainers"; there's no real puzzle there, just pretty things to look at < 1477879726 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :played the fortree one on a trip. took me maybe 15 minutes. < 1477879741 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas RSE's are all puzzles that would fit in puzzle collections; they're fairly easy by those standards but they definitely require thought to solve < 1477879808 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm disappointed that the trick house isn't infinitely refreshing < 1477879811 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, I'm not gonna lie, RSE and earlier were visually interesting because of their perspective. < 1477879817 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it looped, rather than being procedurally generated, that'd be better < 1477879837 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the current "X puzzles then it stops" < 1477879856 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoyed XY, but it definitely was missing stuff. < 1477879876 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were focusing on the engine to the exclusion of the game. < 1477879893 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing I dislike in XY is the art style < 1477879893 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORAS would indicate that, because it was definitely more fleshed out. < 1477879917 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, ORAS is clearly better than XY < 1477879949 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the director of that is doing SUMO, which is promising. < 1477879962 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly would you call that perspective for RGBYRSE. < 1477879977 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the visual perspective. < 1477880013 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The established name for it is three-quarters perspective. < 1477880016 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely has a name, I just can't remember what it is < 1477880016 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has "half" in it somewhere < 1477880025 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/4ths is somewhere close, but it's... < 1477880032 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, that makes sense < 1477880032 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the wrong fraction < 1477880037 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not exactly correct, though. < 1477880048 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :y and z are not bound to eachother. < 1477880069 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find a good example image. < 1477880095 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perspective in RSE maps y and z to the same onscreen axis, doesn't it? and z is the other < 1477880108 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think, but no. < 1477880119 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine the RSE maps as a heightmap. < 1477880127 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, posting an image. < 1477880132 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main weird thing with that perspective in games is that sprites don't match the perspective. < 1477880252 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gen 4 and particularly 5 it's even worse, because the world is 3d but the sprites are 2d < 1477880260 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/JPSE < 1477880266 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works in paper mario but not really in Pokémon < 1477880271 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, here's how mountains and stuff looks. < 1477880280 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: this is my mockup.) < 1477880296 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ptpb.pw/DnDR here's how the heightmap underneath of it looks. < 1477880306 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477880323 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I don't see how that contradicts y and z being the same axis < 1477880323 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not 3/4ths. it's actually something weirder. < 1477880337 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, as you go higher, you don't.. go anywhere. < 1477880353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you go higher vertically above the ground, you move upwards on the screen slightly < 1477880356 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same as if you went north < 1477880360 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by a different amount < 1477880373 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1477880381 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have been told is that they added chess clock recently in Pokemon game. < 1477880383 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if the fraction wasn't exactly ¾, it doesn't have to be for that sort of perspective < 1477880413 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not 3/4ths, because if that were the case, then going up and "out" would amplify eachother. < 1477880422 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because y = y + z; < 1477880436 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the clock they used before was clearly ridiculous, it had a maximum time for each player's move (resetting each move) and a maximum time for the game altogether < 1477880441 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it counted animations in the latter time I think < 1477880456 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some people used shinies simply to add extra animations, because they thought a timeout would be good for their team < 1477880469 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you move "up" and "out" in this way, you're not adding your upward displacement to your outward displacement. < 1477880485 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't 3/4ths. it's just a heightmap. < 1477880506 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to make my own pokemon battle program; it has no animations so those can't take up time, regardless of how you configure the time controls < 1477880523 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: they are being added, just they have opposite signs to what you're expecting < 1477880531 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...no, they aren't. < 1477880531 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that picture < 1477880535 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnope. < 1477880539 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however IIRC RSE's gives them teh same sign < 1477880550 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not 3/4ths. golden sun is 3/4ths. < 1477880557 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon rse is just a heightmap. < 1477880566 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with rgby. < 1477880590 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you jump over a ledge in RBY < 1477880596 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell you why: build a mountain in pokemon, build a mountain in golden sun. < 1477880603 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in golden sun, if you stand behind the mountain, you can't see yourself. < 1477880610 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you stand behind a mountain pokemon, you can always see yourself. < 1477880623 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is only because you can't build one with a sufficiently high slope < 1477880624 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :height goes towards the screen instead of up. < 1477880635 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sufficiently stepe < 1477880638 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*steep < 1477880639 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :❄dvcalc 3020 34.559 nuke < 1477880639 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ Δv = 0.449050979221787 < 1477880641 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as... a heightmap. < 1477880649 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477880650 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :❄dvcalc 34.559 3020 nuke < 1477880650 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ Δv = 4507.56409815405 < 1477880651 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Glasw -1 < 1477880655 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : GM -1 < 1477880657 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : go- -1 < 1477880659 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477880660 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still going? < 1477880660 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah shit. < 1477880669 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1477880671 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it keep repeatedly trying to join? < 1477880684 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't somebody restart it? < 1477880694 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: shachaf's joining and parting it manually < 1477880697 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the hope that it's stopped < 1477880745 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1477880765 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'd be surprised if you couldn't stand behind a cliff in the RSE engine; the problem is that the map design is designed to deny you opportunities < 1477880784 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that are high above the ground also tend to be far north; the game map is designed like that intentionally < 1477880789 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, you can build a mountain/pyramid. < 1477880808 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that if you do it in 3/4ths and stand behind it, you won't be able to see yourself. < 1477880809 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think I remembered a concrete example < 1477880812 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the pyramid will occlude you. < 1477880812 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the slide in the secret base < 1477880817 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stand behind that and be occluded < 1477880826 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's on a different layer, just like bridges. < 1477880834 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game takes place on a 2D plane. < 1477880840 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because the back of the slide is vertical rather than being sloped < 1477880850 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's a 2.5D engine < 1477880853 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnno, it's because it's on a different layer... < 1477880857 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it uses layers in order to do the calculations < 1477880863 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a 2.5D engine. it's entirely tile based. < 1477880868 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the way the engine works doesn't affect the way the perspective works < 1477880876 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffs yes it does. < 1477880876 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5D engines are tile based though < 1477880884 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, these are two different issues < 1477880896 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) how the engine internally represents the map, b) how it's drawn to the user < 1477880898 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't you get about "it's a heightmap and y points towards the screen." < 1477880909 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the chess clock in Pokemon game be applied grace time and/or increment time too, or not? < 1477880911 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a statement about the game's internal representation of the map < 1477880912 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "it's not 3/4ths because they are fundamentally different transforms." < 1477880916 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a statement about how the map is drawn on the screen < 1477880922 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god. yes it is. < 1477880927 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the images. compare the two. < 1477880931 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's very unlikely to be customizable < 1477880944 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it maps from the datastructure to the end rendering. < 1477880965 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: is this an actual example from the game? because AFAICT it contains mistakes < 1477880967 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not 3/4ths. in fact, go ahead, download a RSE editor, pull it up, and try to occlude a character. < 1477880983 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to build like you would in something like 8bitmmo. < 1477880985 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't. < 1477880996 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :8bitmmo is 3/4ths. < 1477880999 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-220-128.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a statement about the art style in use. In terms of the *rendering and data structure*, it's flat 2d, and to my knowledge it's carefully designed to not require a z axis at all. < 1477881005 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement 3/4ths perspective using a 2.5D (i.e. multiple layers of tiles) engine < 1477881015 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is why I have to make the new one, it can be fully customizable. < 1477881017 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also implement it using a 3D engine < 1477881040 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not. 3/4ths. in no way do you increase your Y coordinate as you go higher up in altitude. < 1477881042 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are already fanmade Pokémon engines that may be easier to adjust than creating one from scratch < 1477881044 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all. < 1477881060 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you can go onto a higher layer, can't you? that's one way of modelling the Y coordinate when it matters < 1477881061 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in the art style. < 1477881077 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the Z coordinate in older sonic games is implemented as a sequence of layers rather than an actual value < 1477881086 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can go onto a higher layer, but the layers are stacked on top of eachother facing towards the screen. < 1477881090 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several features of the existing ones I don't like so much though < 1477881093 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no parallax. < 1477881094 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1477881099 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm arguing that the fact that you can be occluded behind the slide is proof that the art style is intended to look like ¾ < 1477881112 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that's implemented by placing the slide on two layers < 1477881123 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the things represented in pokemon are impossible in 3/4ths because of the fundamental difference when you transform the 3d coordinates to screen coordinates. < 1477881123 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only purpose for implementing it like that is so that the art will look correct < 1477881126 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of story. end of argument. < 1477881132 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. < 1477881141 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna prove that wrong, construct a counter example. < 1477881153 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do it the server in JavaScript and the client can be any telnet client (you need not download it), but you can also implement your own client using JSON < 1477881191 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid to include picture and sound effect therefore can save a lot of disk space too. < 1477881225 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than ones using specialized clients < 1477881301 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: here are some pictures of terrain from actual gen 3: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Secret_Base#Layouts < 1477881318 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :o..kay? < 1477881320 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the south wall of a room, the top of the wall is occluding the bottom of the wall < 1477881341 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, the art style is clearly not an overhead view, i.e. the y axis and z axis are both being represented via vertical movement onscreen < 1477881349 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the sprites would have been drawn symmetrically < 1477881367 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare that to the overworld mountain tiles. < 1477881378 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the amount is very small < 1477881387 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because the camera is "almost" overhead < 1477881396 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those walls won't occlude the character. < 1477881404 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus in order for something to occlude something else to its north, the height difference must be very large < 1477881422 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm going to say that this isn't a valid example because it's just a single level of depth. < 1477881440 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477881442 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : pike) -1 < 1477881446 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : pkg_* -1 < 1477881448 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : plans. -1 < 1477881450 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : plans?<-- -1 < 1477881452 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477881457 0 :moony!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1477881461 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how long that'll go on for. < 1477881464 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: fwiw, my actual secret base in Gen 3 was full of puzzles in which I had traps occluded by other objects, so that you couldn't easily see them < 1477881479 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was unlikely to make much progress in 12 minutes. < 1477881480 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing the negatives are fewer than the positives < 1477881492 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i was just wondering how fast it went < 1477881498 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I think it was gen 3, might have been gen 4 < 1477881508 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I studied the way they developed the art style and made that mockup about two months ago. < 1477881515 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume the great majority of karmas are +-1 < 1477881525 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :down to the tiles. < 1477881527 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mockup is incorrect, though, it reverses the 3D y to 2D y mapping, and also has a few heightmap errors < 1477881532 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it took a long time to get to 1 < 1477881539 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the negatives will probably be faster. < 1477881544 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. no, it's completely correct, I dare you to prove it wrong. 2. probably. < 1477881546 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess haskell's comment syntax means -- may be more common than ++ < 1477881558 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :heightmap errors were kind of common. I was writing a renderer for it. < 1477881559 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People also use -- as an mdash < 1477881561 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :emdash < 1477881564 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's how it works. < 1477881574 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to prove me wrong, create an example RSE map. < 1477881581 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :where building "up" occludes the character. < 1477881617 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I told someone else that I wanted to make the text version of the pokemon battle, what someone suggeted is that it is good except for one pokemon species where they draw dots on your face depending on your personality value. What can be done though is that if you have that pokemon, then your opponent can see your personality value! < 1477881634 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It can just be displayed as text instead) < 1477881639 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I wanted to see if I could make a "net navi" for those with a pebble smartwatch. < 1477881648 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: here, the trees are occluding the mountain: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Hoenn_Route_103_RS.png < 1477881650 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've played MMBN. < 1477881678 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mountain itself confines to the grid because it's sloped at a 45 degree angle < 1477881685 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if the trees are occluding the mountain, then why aren't they occluding eachother in the same image. < 1477881690 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If data files from other Pokemon battle programs are compatible then it can be avoided to rewrite all of the data files at least, so it is not entirely to write by scratch. < 1477881690 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1477881697 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the left side. < 1477881698 0 :moony!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION studies argument or 2.5D info
< 1477881698 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hard to see because the top and bottom of the tree is the same colour < 1477881720 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trees on the left don't fill the whole square, just enough to block movement < 1477881723 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know if the existing data files are compatible so that same data file can be in use? < 1477881727 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the base is towards the south < 1477881728 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :one second. < 1477881738 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a trick that Game Freak commonly use in order to save on rendering costs < 1477881756 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s124.photobucket.com/user/darkstewie69/media/My%20Region/StarterTown.png.html < 1477881761 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Veekun has an SQL database of all the data used by the Pokémon games < 1477881771 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is this not consistent. < 1477881773 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what most people use < 1477881788 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSE uses a tile-based heightmap in order to render everything. < 1477881814 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a better image... < 1477881815 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure RSE stores the tiles in a "premultiplied" form < 1477881819 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/AntiSpriteTheft/media/Hoenn_Route_122_RSE_zps3ce687bf.png.html < 1477881837 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :go "up" on this mountain. < 1477881840 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be heading towards the screen. < 1477881845 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That might be useful. Which unofficial programs use it? < 1477881861 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you want to place something at a particluar place on the map, you add y+z and store the tile at that location in memory < 1477881866 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. no. < 1477881867 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's an implementation detail < 1477881871 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't how it works. < 1477881871 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Im not sure < 1477881878 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: in your first picture the trees are occluding the lake < 1477881886 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is fan-made. < 1477881888 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :second is in-game. < 1477881909 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: look at the north side of the mountain < 1477881914 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon RSE internally represents its position as a traditional X and Y pair. < 1477881919 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the higher layers are occluding the lower layers, because it's a 45° slope < 1477881932 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the engine internally doesn't use the z value except when layers are involved < 1477881935 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just an optimization < 1477881937 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the higher layers aren't, actually. < 1477881941 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game works in camera coordinates < 1477881971 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no Z coordinate in the game except for layering, which has no physical effect. < 1477881975 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both sides of the mountain are sloped at 45° in that picture < 1477881989 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in no way can you generate that picture using 3/4ths. < 1477881990 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, you're confusing the game's representation with the view that the game wants to show to the player < 1477881996 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making a JavaScript time-controls library so afterward I will be able to use that. < 1477881999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a game that uses an isometric perspective < 1477882004 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can store that as x, y, z coordinates < 1477882011 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop telling me what I'm confusing. < 1477882011 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also store that as just x, y, and layer where two things cross < 1477882036 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use 3/4ths to generate that kind of a perspective. < 1477882042 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same with ¾ rather than isometric; the game internally uses an x, y, layer coordinate system < 1477882045 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't see _behind the objects_ wit h3/4ths. < 1477882053 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't see behind objects there, either < 1477882057 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yeah, I can. < 1477882065 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the back side of the mountain while also seeing the front side. < 1477882075 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, see the grass in front of the entrance? then look at the row of rock immediately above it < 1477882079 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow that round to the back of the mountain < 1477882082 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see that it disappears < 1477882082 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://opengameart.org/sites/default/files/images/TUTO_chap3_Ody.gif < 1477882087 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what 3/4ths looks like. < 1477882091 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's occluded by the mountain above it < 1477882110 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the gif you just posted, the wall is vertical, the house is vertical < 1477882117 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're good at occluding things behind them because they're vertical < 1477882121 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the fucking mountain. < 1477882123 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the screenshot from Pokémon, however, the mountain is not vertical < 1477882131 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 45° slope < 1477882151 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's much less good at occluding things behind it because it's approximately a pyramid, rather than approximately a cube < 1477882154 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm challenging you to construct that mountain using 3/4ths. < 1477882156 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it. < 1477882158 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :freakin' do it. < 1477882190 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a smaller example? that one's fairly large and it'd take ages < 1477882194 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what 2.5D is, but I'm mystified by 0.75D < 1477882206 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could, you wouln't be able to see the back of it because the front-facing parts would occlude the back ones. < 1477882222 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me draw the top few lines for you < 1477882228 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it isn't really... that tough. < 1477882232 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take a while as it's a big mountain < 1477882249 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably around twice as big as you think it is because you're misinterpreting it :-P < 1477882284 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the site keeps replacing the image with an advert when I unfocus it < 1477882287 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me take a screenshot of the image… < 1477882289 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to imgshack. < 1477882299 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :or photobucket. or whatever horrible image service. < 1477882325 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, here's something. < 1477882331 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I was going "up" from the back of the mountain. < 1477882343 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd increase my Y coordinate, right. < 1477882349 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because y = y + z; < 1477882356 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how 3/4ths works. < 1477882365 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. in pokemon, that doesn't work. < 1477882371 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually decrease your Y coordinate. < 1477882437 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your x and y coordinates remain unchanged according to your depth. it's like traversing a heightmap. the art style is designed like that so large objects won't occlude your view. < 1477882547 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :those kinds of slopes pop up a lot of places. < 1477882582 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy working out the heightmap atm < 1477882589 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taking ages because I keep miscounting all the occluded area < 1477882598 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot is occluded on the north side < 1477882605 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above. < 1477882615 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may look like 3/4ths at a glance but it's actually not possible. < 1477882735 0 :moony!4c014880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.1.72.128 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477882736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please give me time to do this! < 1477882748 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just showed you it was impossible. :P < 1477882785 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477882785 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say it's not all you like, that's how it behaves in game and that's how it was drawn. < 1477882787 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : of -2 < 1477882791 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : on -2 < 1477882793 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PART #esoteric : < 1477882823 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know; I did research and I was writing a renderer for heightmaps like this. < 1477882953 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a ¾ renderer so you can test the heightmap I'm giving you? < 1477883029 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a 3/4ths voxel renderer at one point. < 1477883045 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that's left of it after morphing it into an isometric renderer is some screenshots. < 1477883058 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is lambdabot slowly dying? < 1477883070 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dying from all the karma. < 1477883088 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, it's slowly listing its entire karma database < 1477883108 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we keep it mostly out of the channel until it finishes < 1477883112 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 0.0 < 1477883118 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compare pokemon's perspective to ALttP's... you'll find that the same inconsistencies are abound. it's "kind of 3/4ths" but not really, and everything either gravitates towards or away from the center of the screen like a heightmap. < 1477883129 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's got down at least -2.0 hth < 1477883142 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*down to < 1477883142 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ihy hth < 1477883150 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1477883160 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gfys < 1477883168 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ggnr < 1477883185 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/b h ss! < 1477883317 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1477883342 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generalized numbers unconsciously the other day, and I want to know if there's anything like it yet < 1477883374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1477883434 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single value V is a sequence of numbers (I use naturals, but you could use pretty much anything with the required operations and relations) [v_1, v_2, ..., v_k] < 1477883478 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then what? < 1477883486 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Trying to figure out how to explain < 1477883521 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :V > W if the length of V is greater than that of W. If they're the same length, then V is greater if its last value is more. If those are equal, V is greater if its second-to-last is more < 1477883525 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etc. < 1477883565 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1477883588 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of similar thing once but I also don't know if there is anything like it yet < 1477883604 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of it sort of like a trophy case- somebody with 3 second places is better than someone with 2, but there is no number of second places that is better than a single first place (in theory) < 1477883620 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is why I call it "cases" or "tropheries" for now) < 1477883643 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1477883643 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict, that's order isomorphic to ordinals < omega^omega < 1477883668 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh? < 1477883674 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what you are describing is basically their Cantor normal form < 1477883684 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bearing in mind that the length and values must all be finite? < 1477883691 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is, isn't it < 1477883693 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1477883846 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477883885 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, seems like it's finished < 1477883895 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there weren't many below -2, then < 1477883928 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well < 1477883932 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1477884006 0 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1477884032 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: http://sprunge.us/BjgM is a heightmap representation of the same mountain that's shown in ¾ in the screenshot you gave, from the north edge down to the northernmost edge of the visible beach < 1477884075 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is a square that's occluded; . is a square that is occluded but you can deduce that it's sea because if it were above sea level, it wouldn't be occluded < 1477884082 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I assume you came up with the same definition that addition of V and W (V+W) is equal to [v_1+w_1, v_2+2_2, ..., v_i+w_i, l_(i+1), (i+2), ..., l_(j-1), l_j] where i = min({len(v), len(w)}), l is the tail of the longer sequence starting at position i ([] if they're the same length), and j = #l? < 1477884112 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that in this perspective, the front of the mountain is directly vertical, which seems implausible; the game's perspective probably uses a different scaling factor between y and z than the one I assumed there < 1477884124 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :("front" = south face, the one nearest the camera) < 1477884174 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I put the camera at 45° from vertical in that heightmap but it's probably more like 22.5° in practice < 1477884191 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I think I did (although this was some time ago and I may have forgotten) < 1477884213 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, though, that any camera orientation, from vertical to almost horizontal, can produce a mountain of that shape; you basically just apply shear to the mountain < 1477884219 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basic camera matrix stuff < 1477884225 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't need proving < 1477884439 0 :Nithogg!~ethiraric@jrc16-h01-176-150-43-109.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1477884440 0 :navet!~harvey@92.132.232.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477884502 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And defining n*V for a case V (item-type p), allowing cases with element-types being a member q of Q (p \subseqin Q) (so usually q \in {|N, |Z, |Q, |R}. At weirdest, |S), and a value n (of type t) where (*) :: p -> t -> (\elem Q) < 1477884527 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the last time. read above. < 1477884539 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible and you're wrong because it's a different projection. < 1477884541 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: you asked for proof, that's proof < 1477884550 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even parse that. < 1477884577 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming you were drawing something. but it doesn't even matter because the fundamental proof is whether or not scaling the back slope can set you higher on your screen. < 1477884583 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't. it remains unaffected. < 1477884592 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n*V = ⦗n*v_1, n*v_2, ..., n*v_k⦘ with k = #V < 1477884606 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is occluded, . is occluded but necessarily at height 1, other values are heightmap < 1477884615 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. my drawing is the same mountain seen from directly above rather than at ¾ perspective < 1477884616 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imode: Is an argument about to start? < 1477884616 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you scaled the back slope of that mountain and ended up with a higher y screen coordinate, it's 3/4ths. < 1477884619 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we can't see all of it < 1477884620 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, it's not. < 1477884621 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it started ages ago < 1477884625 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you're wrong. end of argument. < 1477884634 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never noticed. < 1477884637 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: what's your definition of "scaled" here? < 1477884644 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start at a location adjacent to the bottom of the back slope of the mountain < 1477884646 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move upwards < 1477884650 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1477884654 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the mountain < 1477884656 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will move up the screen < 1477884658 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will end up with a lower Y coordinate on the screen. < 1477884661 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: ais523: Would you like an impartial third party? Because I can probably find someone < 1477884667 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, this is just stupid. < 1477884670 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: look at the picture < 1477884675 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the second layer up on the mountain < 1477884677 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow it round < 1477884681 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the last time I'm going to say this. < 1477884681 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it disappears, right? < 1477884687 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because it's lower on the screen than the third layer is < 1477884694 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus the third layer covers it up < 1477884709 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this projection, if you scale a pyramid shaped structure from the back of the structure (i.e further away from the camera), two things happen in two different projections. < 1477884720 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3/4ths, your screen Y coordinate increases. < 1477884724 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, here's an alternative proof you're wrong: every render that can be generated by a heightmap, can also be generated by a ¾ perspective (starting from a different object) < 1477884730 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pokemon's projection, your screen Y coordinate decreases. < 1477884737 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of discussion. < 1477884743 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please define "scale", it's ambiguous and I don't know what definition you're using < 1477884753 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :"go up the mountain". < 1477884754 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, your screen Y coordinate /increases/ in Pokémon's projection < 1477884760 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :it. does. not. < 1477884761 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you go up the north face of the mountain < 1477884775 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: if it decreased, then you would be able to see the entire back face of the mountain < 1477884778 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1477884789 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. you.. can. < 1477884791 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is this argument about how Pokemon works? xD < 1477884793 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :done with this discussion. < 1477884811 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have time to infinitely loop over an explanation you are clearly not getting. < 1477884818 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I need to do is cook dinner. < 1477884908 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: the easiest way to see this is to look at the beach; it's visible on the left, bottom, and right side of the mountains, but it is /not/ visible on the top, and the reason is because it has a lower rendered-y coordinate than the back of the mountain because it is lower on the screen; if being higher on the screen always gave a higher rendered-y coordinate, you would be able to see the beach < 1477884917 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Please, stop < 1477884969 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK; I'm just annoyed because imode asked a question, refused to believe my answer, asked for proof, then when I spent like half an hour providing proof refused to look at it on the basis that it couldn't exist < 1477885018 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that that's frustrating, but from imode's perspective you probably weren't giving a very good proof < 1477885034 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think you're annoyed, try "I wrote a renderer and drew mockups and understand how this thing works" while showing inconsistencies and you're just not accepting it because you can't listen to me for a split second. < 1477885044 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop your assumptions about how you think this piece of shit works and actually listen. < 1477885059 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, you're moving the goalposts every time I try to respond to what you're saying < 1477885077 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :any more of this and I'm putting you on ignore. I'm sure you're a wonderful person otherwise but you're infuriating me. < 1477885078 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I will concede is that in Pokémon, it's impossible to move to a location that's occluded by more than one tile < 1477885096 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is dragging out too long. < 1477885113 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imode probably isn't trying to move the goalposts; e knows what e means, e just didn't express it in a way you understood. < 1477885132 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're saying is that it's /impossible/ the perspective is ¾; what I'm saying is that it's not only possible, but also likely; however the way perspective works it will never be possible to prove < 1477885155 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all renderings that can be produced in ¾ perspective can also be produced by an overhead camera (starting from a differently shaped object) < 1477885194 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you two are using different sets of axioms, the definitions are different, or this is one of those weird areas of math that has something bizarre like how in Modal Logic, the statement "it is possible that p is necessary" implies "p is true" < 1477885205 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also saying that the reason you're confused is that there are some small parts of the game which are clearly in ¾ perspective; you believe the rest of the game isn't, so you believe the game is inconsistent < 1477885209 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3/4ths, here's what your screen projection looks like. x = x; y = y + z; in pokemon's perspective, here's what your projection looks like: x = x; y = y;. z is discarded because it's an overhead view. they are different perspectives. < 1477885219 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's it. that's all. I'm not listening to you because you never listened to me. < 1477885222 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, /ignored. < 1477885233 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I believe the game consistently uses ¾ perspective, and typically makes occluded tiles impassable in order to prevent you navigating "in the dark" < 1477885243 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring each other for the time being seems like the best way to resolve this < 1477885257 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: e has you on ignore. You can stop now. < 1477885265 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just really disappointed because of people being so aggressively wrong < 1477885289 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imode is probably thinking the exact same thing about you right now. < 1477885342 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the source of the disagreement is that I agree that ¾ perspective uses the formula "rendered-x = world-x; rendered-y = world-y + world-z"; I disagree with imode's assertion that Pokémon uses the formula "rendered-x = world-x; rendered-y = world-y" < 1477885360 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and imode was ignoring any evidence that I could provide for the latter disagreement < 1477885366 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just don't tell me about the argument so I don't wind up taking sides < 1477885378 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but confusing the issue is the fact that Pokémon calculates using rendered-x/y internally rather than world-x/y < 1477885412 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: right, I shouldn't drag you into it because as you don't care what the answer is, it's unimportant that yo know < 1477885481 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1477885493 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing started because imode asked what the answer was, pikhq and I told them, then they refused to accept it < 1477885530 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's normally, especially in a channel like this one, an invitation to have your misconceptions corrected (because presumably you want to be educated because you care about the answer), but apparently not in this case < 1477885558 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm getting a feeling the argument might have been about different mindsets; one of you was going for mathematical perfection and the other for a high-accuracy approximation < 1477885609 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the record, I didn't ignore you because I thought you would stop, but thanks. again, the conversation devolves from a discussion about the way things actually work to trying to piss on eachother's keyboards. < 1477885630 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it depends what Pokemon game? Maybe the different generation might work differently < 1477885647 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it works differently from Platinum onwards, although the game's view looks much the same < 1477885652 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand how this works. and instead of saying "wow that's how it works?" you'll try to make up any bullshit in order to "prove" you "understood it". < 1477885656 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, imode. < 1477885665 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so stupid. it's a god damn pokemon game. < 1477885684 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Pokémon Red through Pearl use ¾ projection but the game stores the rendered version as the map internally; Pokémon Platinum onwards also use ¾ onwards but store the map in world coordinates, not rendered coordinates < 1477885685 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imode: Please, you two, just put each other on ignore for the time being. It's for the best. < 1477885700 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*also use ¾ projection < 1477885702 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, how about we both shut up. < 1477885714 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm going to answer questions about this when other people ask them! < 1477885722 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and continue to be wrong. < 1477885748 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: Not both shut up, ignore each other so you lose interest in talking about this topic and the argument dies < 1477885776 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pulls up a random article from hackernews.
< 1477885782 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, here's a really good direct proof it's ¾ in gen 2: look at radio tower here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Goldenrod_City_GS.png < 1477885799 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll stop talking about it because I suspect if that isn't convincing, nothing will be < 1477885814 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you really have to do that? < 1477885816 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1477885829 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it sums up the argument in one sentence, so it's a good place to stop < 1477885850 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ignored mine, so I'm ignoring your's. < 1477885854 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just took me this long to think of it < 1477885871 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I didn't /ignore/ your arguments; I /disagreed/ with them, and pointed out the bit I disagreed with) < 1477885882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'd ignored your arguments I'd have said a lot less! < 1477885882 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really want me to dissect that image so this bullshit can go on longer. < 1477885888 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :just shut. up. and I'll shut up. < 1477885896 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just want you to look at it and see if it makes any sense with your worldview < 1477885915 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but if you look at it externally, it's pretty clear you're just getting the last word. You very well may be getting the *right* last word, but you're still just continuing this awful, awful debate < 1477885919 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're not going to do that, that's fine too, I can understand if you decided that your question isn't worth this much bothering about < 1477885920 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :gen2's art style isn't rse's, and I can't believe I'm saying that in a serious conversation. < 1477885935 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't ask you a fucking question condescending shit. < 1477885944 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did, let me quote it < 1477885999 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what exactly would you call that perspective for RGBYRSE. like, the visual perspective. it definitely has a name, I just can't remember what it is I think it has "half" in it somewhere The established name for it is three-quarters perspective. < 1477886010 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all this crap I forgot the original line. < 1477886012 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sad. < 1477886020 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I've been spending all that time trying to clarify the answer because you disagreed with it < 1477886026 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, I did ask you what the name might be. < 1477886041 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disagreeing is fine, typically; we analyse each other's arguments to see where the disconnect is < 1477886043 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then further clarified that it's not 3/4ths. < 1477886045 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eventually one person changes their mind < 1477886059 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is precisely why I was asking the question. < 1477886067 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it wasn't 3/4ths then what the hell was it. < 1477886076 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn I'll never casually ask anything again. < 1477886087 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my position is that gens 1, 2, 3, and the start of 4 use the same perspective; you disagree with that, so I've been trying to figure out where the disconnect is < 1477886088 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this as a friend: I honestly think it's time for both of you to turn off the computer and go for walk < 1477886095 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 4am? < 1477886099 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not safe to walk at that time < 1477886102 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :not e- yeah. < 1477886109 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus it's raining. < 1477886122 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then go to sleep. Or listening to some music. Or read a good book. < 1477886135 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I was doing other things < 1477886141 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I got pulled into the channel to try to help explain this < 1477886145 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's not much point at this point < 1477886161 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1477886171 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :now he has the right idea. < 1477886172 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PART #esoteric : < 1477886625 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, for anyone lurking or logreading this, I'd like to say that I'm very upset by this, and explain why < 1477886649 0 :17SAAF3NW!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1477886650 0 :7GHAALOJK!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1477886663 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main reasons I come here, other than talking about esoprogramming, it's that it's a channel with the sort of friendly atmosphere in which you can ask a quesiton, and often get an answer if someone happens to know it < 1477886691 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically without the motivations being questioned (as they're often ridiculous), unless they happen to be relevant < 1477886699 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I value that a lot, and have made use of it in the past < 1477886712 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I try to give back by helping people out with things they might be struggling with < 1477886733 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically it's programming, but the projection used by Pokémon games counts too, I guess < 1477886756 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's a disagreement, then we tend to go more in depth in order to find out what the answer is, and that's what I was trying to do there < 1477886782 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were other things I wanted to be doing, but it seemed like it was worth going through the effort so that someone else would do it for me < 1477886814 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeing all that be abused makes me very upset; it's like the more detail I went into, the harder things became rather than easier < 1477886826 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1477886833 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything I said was being pushed back against, with questions for more proof and the like < 1477886899 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because I used to work as a teacher, if someone isn't understanding something, I feel like it's me who's at fault for not explaining it correctly < 1477886929 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wanted to try to resolve the situation, and now that I haven't, I feel like I've failed < 1477887018 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I hope people won't be any less inclined to answer my questions, or to ask questions of their own, as a result; the conversations can often be really interesting, and typically everyone comes out having learned something < 1477887075 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's all I want to say < 1477887078 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477887108 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :well put < 1477887130 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for delurking < 1477887130 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477887140 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel a bit better now < 1477887248 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't had many ideas for my hello world though… < 1477887399 0 :augur_!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477887405 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1477887829 0 :augur_!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1477887890 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :❄dvcalc 47.47 5018 nuke < 1477887890 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ Δv = 5901.1484425243 < 1477889117 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477889487 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, so how DO ordinals generalize beyond the "case system" I was thinking about earlier? < 1477889497 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's probably that you allow cases to nest indefinitely deep? < 1477890107 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Which case system? < 1477890136 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: A generalization of numbers I thought up that I called "cases" by an analogy to a trophy case < 1477890189 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: It uses the metaphor that a team that has won 2 third-place awards is better than a team that has won 1, but a team that has won 3 would be better < 1477890198 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 would be better than the team that won 3, 5 better than 4, etc. < 1477890242 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is no number of third-place wins that would, on their own, put you better than a team with only one second-place win < 1477890258 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a team with 2 second-place wins is better that that team, and a team with 3 better than them, etc. < 1477890275 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no number of second-place wins is better than even one first-place < 1477890312 0 :navet!~harvey@APuteaux-551-1-121-30.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1477890503 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: So you create a generalization of numbers in the form of a finite sequence of natural numbers C = [C_1, C_2, ..., C_(k_C)] < 1477890516 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where C > D if len(C) > len(D) < 1477890538 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C > D if C's last element is greater than D's last element < 1477890547 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/And/else/ < 1477890574 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :else C > D if C' > D', where C' is C with its last value truncated and D' is D with its last value truncated < 1477890592 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, that seems like a well-ordering to me: for any nonempty set of such things, it will have a least element < 1477890592 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: So... that < 1477890629 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll be order isomorphic to some particular ordinal. < 1477890634 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Well... yeah < 1477890652 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No matter which ordinal that happens to be, it will have a successor :) < 1477890653 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Yes, and apparently this is isomorphic to the ordinals < omega^omega < 1477890713 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developed completely on my own while watching the Yogscast :D < 1477890726 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then forgotten about, then dredged back up later) < 1477890799 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: The next logical step was addition; V+W is done by expanding the shorter one by right-padding it with zeros to have the same length as the longer one, then simply performing element-wise addition < 1477890853 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [1, 2, 3]+[2, 3, 5, 7, 11] = [1, 2, 3, 0, 0]+[2, 3, 5, 7, 11] = [1+2, 2+3, 3+5, 7+0, 11+0] = [3, 5, 8, 7, 11] < 1477890856 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, or you can simply think of these things as sequences which are eventually 0 < 1477890871 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would hope that an ordinal notation can at least handle ordinals < eps_0 twh < 1477890886 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Well, yes, that's the mathematical version, but I was computer-implementing them :P < 1477890900 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's at eps_0 twh? < 1477890927 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google cantor normal form < 1477890928 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_arithmetic < 1477890944 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, those things < 1477890964 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: So, V+n (for some Case V and some scalar n) was easily equal to V+[n] < 1477891024 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If polynomials are free ring expressions (are they?), what are CNF ordinals? < 1477891039 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, that's Cantor, not Conjunctive. < 1477891049 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then, it was simple to figure that, as long as I'm extending numbers, there's no reason to constrain the /elements/ to natural numbers; I can allow the elements themselves to be Cases < 1477891053 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Note that there's an interesting involution on these things < 1477891081 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, sorry, I was thinking of something else :) < 1477891099 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we were to insist that the elements of the sequences were descending... < 1477891120 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Ah, treating it as reverse? < 1477891141 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of the second element being infinity, the second element is infinitesimal? < 1477891143 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, you could reverse them. < 1477891157 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was thinking of a transpose operation that doesn't quite work out < 1477891163 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1477891177 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, you can do something like Haskell's transpose which squishes things together) < 1477891223 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also figured that nV for scalar n and case V is easily [n*V_1, n*V_2, ..., n*V_k] for k = #V < 1477891223 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transpose . transpose $ [[1,1,1,1], [1,1], [], [1,1,1]] < 1477891225 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,1,1,1],[1,1,1],[1,1]] < 1477891277 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck on VW for cases V and W, but it might turn out like matrices < 1477891278 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tr = map sum . transpose . map (flip replicate 1) < 1477891281 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1477891289 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tr [4,2,0,3] < 1477891293 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,3,2,1] < 1477891329 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not quite an involution like this, but it's sort of a closure operator) < 1477891358 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though, wait, I could stick to the definition for nV and wind up with V = [1, 2], W = [3, 4, 5], VW = [3[1, 2], 4[1, 2], 5[1, 2]] = [[3, 6], [4, 8], [5, 10]]) < 1477891392 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: But, wait, you CAN do ordinals like this descending, correct? < 1477891446 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :descending? < 1477891492 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: You can think of any ordinal as being the set of all ordinals strictly less than it (von Neumann's definition of ordinals does this) < 1477891503 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Yes, you can < 1477891528 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are you talking about my descending sequences? < 1477891533 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I mean, if you were to take my Case notation and, instead of having a lowest level and higher levels that take precedence, you have a highest level and lower levels that break ties < 1477891537 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Maybe, I'm not sure < 1477891552 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1477891559 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ordering on ordinals isn't dense < 1477891571 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I didn't think it was? < 1477891579 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can always break ties... < 1477891601 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, [3, 4, 5][1, 2] = [1[3, 4, 5], 2[3, 4, 5] = [[3, 4, 5], [6, 8, 10] dammit. Non-commutative, which is sad. < 1477891624 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Well, no, if it's the same on every level then there's a tie and they're equal < 1477891639 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if it's the first element of the sequence which is most significant, and you're just taking the lexicographic ordering < 1477891649 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Yes, I believe so < 1477891659 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that's dense, in the sense that for any two sequences you'll be able to find one which is in between them < 1477891666 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't be well-ordered < 1477891735 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. {[1],[0,1],[0,0,1],[0,0,0,1],...} will be an infinite descending sequence having no least element < 1477891747 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: In the Cases, taking [a, b, c] > [d, e, f] means that you take c > f. If c > f, then [a, b, c] > [d, e, f]; if c < f, then [a, b, c] !> [d, e, f]; if c = f, then you take b > e and repeat < 1477891759 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can extend the last element indefinitely < 1477891786 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: I didn't need well-order; it's not about ordinals, it's about infinitesimals < 1477891793 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's the other way around which gives you ordinals < 1477891801 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: Exactly < 1477891844 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And once you have that, there's no reason you can't glue it together into ([infinite], finite, [infinitesimal]) < 1477891883 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part is how to multiply < 1477891926 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might hope to get a field which incorporates various infinitesimals and infinities < 1477892024 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would. < 1477892029 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe a semiring, in your case) < 1477892047 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we haven't been dealing with negative numbers or fractions anywhere) < 1477892189 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477892288 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: what do you think of the kuratowski closure axioms twh < 1477892353 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twh < 1477892358 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. < 1477892423 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're good < 1477892528 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like cl is a monad which is also a union monoid homomorphism. :) < 1477892560 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you generalize that last bit? < 1477892630 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's a monoidal functor, but I'm not immediately sure whether (empty set, union) gives a monoidal category structure on the powerset with inclusions... I'd like to think it does < 1477892677 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98e0:7e6:4867:c34c:b89b:ea78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah, sure it does < 1477893376 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Me4502 5* 10New user account < 1477893418 0 :godel!~gonzalo@96-251-231-201.fibertel.com.ar QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1477893993 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50062&oldid=50033 5* 03Me4502 5* (+183) 10 < 1477893997 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Wutlang14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50063 5* 03Me4502 5* (+1896) 10Created page with "{{Stub}} '''Wutlang''', or '''Wut''' is an esoteric language inspired by [[Brainfuck]], created by Matthew Miller (Me4502) in 2016. Whilst the syntax is similar, there are no..." < 1477894106 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477894144 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477894276 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1477894346 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477895219 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1477895901 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477896034 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposal: make a wiki plugin that changes the category labels from "brainfuck derivate" to "boring" < 1477896075 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... epsilon_0 is equal to omega^omega^omega^omega^...? < 1477896355 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is epsilon to omega what infinity is to 8? < 1477896433 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: No. < 1477896454 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, as it turns out, my form treats arbitrary nesting as the same. Apparently. < 1477896481 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what you are doing, but it sounds broken < 1477896494 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Ordinal numbers, as it turns out < 1477896513 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 0, 0, ..., 1] with n 0s is omega^n. [0, 0, 0, ..., k] with n 0s is k*omega^n < 1477896523 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: i wrote a brainfuck derivative where < and > are reversed < 1477896534 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivate < 1477896555 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izalove: so it's brainfuck if your tape is infinitely long in both directions. < 1477896556 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, from that, I found that [0, [0, 1]] = omega*omega = omega^2 = [0, 0, 1] < 1477896572 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: nah only on the left hand side < 1477896591 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izalove: that's a TBS < 1477896625 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :TotalBrainfuck'Slookalike < 1477896629 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izalove: but well, it still qualifies for boring. more than other derivates even < 1477896678 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477896683 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I suppose if I introduced a {} notation... < 1477896688 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477896719 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[A{k}, B] = [A, A, A, ..., b] with k As < 1477896742 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then [0{[0, 1]}, 1] is epsilon null < 1477896786 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon_0 is the least fixed point of (omega ^) < 1477896818 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That too? < 1477896825 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too? < 1477897460 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarties americans don't have smarties < 1477897471 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people disgust me < 1477897532 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether they're sold around here in general, but the name is certainly associated with a candy in my head. < 1477897570 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another candy! < 1477897585 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but maybe I'm thinking of a different candy. I don't know. < 1477897597 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smarties.com/ this shit < 1477897620 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look very similar. < 1477897638 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. at. all. < 1477897655 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1998, Nestle obtained a trademark for a tubular Smarties package. It later sued Master Foods in Denmark, which was marketing M&M minis in a similar package. The Supreme Court of Denmark ruled that a basic geometrical shape could not be trademarked and ordered the trademark to be removed from the trademark register.[7] < 1477897878 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "you people disgust me" seems a little strong tdnh < 1477897894 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mercy < 1477897900 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people haven't even heard the gospel < 1477897918 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was reading a bunch of chick tracts recently < 1477898056 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good way to find which people are in both #foo and #bar ? < 1477898093 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current approach is to use /names twice and then copy it in vim, then :%s/ /\r/g and then :%! sort | uniq -d < 1477898100 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477898139 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done that exact thing before. :-( < 1477898143 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awful. < 1477898306 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale: A union is just a pushout, right? < 1477898370 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the union axiom be expressed in those terms? < 1477898385 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not a pushout when you're talking about the poset category of inclusions. < 1477898496 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477898587 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fuck you, you made me google chick tracts and the guy's dead and i'm sad now < 1477898616 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's with the lord hth < 1477898627 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what the website says < 1477898671 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which incidentally are they even allowed to say < 1477898872 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477899063 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:fdff:c356:5bdc:3c56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477899204 0 :centrinia!~centrinia@107-208-218-105.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1477899344 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why wouldn't they be? < 1477899385 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to the other sort of Smarties? I guess only one is chocolate-filled. < 1477899392 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of weird happenings with my computer: if I'm charging the router's battery from the USB port adjacent to the headphone port, and am using headphones < 1477899403 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear Internet connections < 1477899412 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of buzzing when the computer is downloading (possibly also uploading) data < 1477899455 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this "jesus died" thing is such a scam < 1477899522 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is this why smarties are sold in a hexagonal-prism tube nowadays rather than a cylinder? < 1477899523 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I smell that if you do enough LSD, you can smell sound < 1477899544 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that could also be to make them pack better, or to make them easier to manufacture < 1477899576 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Ecstasy. Ecstasy is the big one. < 1477899614 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure inducing synaesthesia between senses I already have is useful < 1477899625 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am especially unwilling to use illegal drugs for such a minor purpose < 1477899637 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meanwhile, the advantage of the bandwidth-to-sound conversion is that it gives me a sense I wouldn't otherwise have) < 1477899660 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the disadvantage of illegal drugs? < 1477899760 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: They're illegal < 1477899776 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're illegal because of all the disadvantages < 1477899780 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as that they're illegal < 1477899789 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Et cetera. < 1477899903 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1477899959 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477901048 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:fdff:c356:5bdc:3c56 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477901081 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477901229 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1477901368 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1477902647 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg5gagn7ado8jrt.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1477904242 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1477904482 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477904893 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :github's halloween theme is nice < 1477905138 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing something - I didn't see anything halloweeny (or different at all from normal) there. < 1477908181 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1477908273 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1477908704 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1477909384 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric : what's a good way to find which people are in both #foo and #bar ? ← write a client-side script for your favourite IRC client to print the intersection? < 1477909396 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who has the time < 1477909400 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've asked myself the same thing in the past, but haven't bothered with it yet) < 1477910064 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477910380 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1477910389 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orodruin//The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1477910410 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1477910443 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds reasonable < 1477910795 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/orodruin < 1477910803 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/orodruin//The Orodruin is a mountain heated by earth spirits. Sauron moved to Mordor because boiling water for his morning tea with the fires of the Orodruin was so convenient. < 1477910847 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan hellørjan. you really did special case sed -i. bleh! flblblblblbl! :Þ < 1477910850 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1477911591 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:YSomebody14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50064&oldid=50022 5* 03YSomebody 5* (+448) 10 < 1477912216 0 :hydraz!?@? NICK :SIGINT < 1477912371 0 :SIGINT!?@? NICK :amused < 1477912396 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477913198 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: APPEAL CHICKEN < 1477913812 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1477913991 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477914239 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma 00:22:23 < 1477914242 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22:23 has a karma of -1 < 1477915322 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1477915369 0 :navet!~harvey@APuteaux-551-1-121-30.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477916434 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50065&oldid=45900 5* 03TuxCrafting 5* (+4377) 10o_O < 1477916776 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Somebody1234 5* 10New user account < 1477917228 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50066&oldid=50062 5* 03Somebody1234 5* (+246) 10This is the intro page right? < 1477917242 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Seed14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50067&oldid=50065 5* 03Somebody1234 5* (-116) 10Remove tags made obsolete by feersum's answer < 1477917613 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`8-ball < 1477917615 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concentrate and ask again. < 1477918707 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1477918709 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal symbol//A terminal symbol is a terminal condition that makes your parser die eventually. Consult your linguist for medical advice. < 1477918729 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg5gagn7ado8jrt.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477919621 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477919852 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat bin/sed < 1477919853 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi < 1477919857 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1477920725 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 3h20m worth of karma... ugh. < 1477922635 0 :amused!?@? NICK :hydraz < 1477922806 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? 7 < 1477922809 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477922901 0 :navet!~harvey@APuteaux-551-1-121-30.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1477923868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1477923975 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? water < 1477923977 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water is a squishy substance that creeps along the floor and can suddenly fall from the heavens. < 1477924050 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: what is the wob? < 1477924060 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bonjonas < 1477924099 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, alercah. the wob is because I'm using a wob-based irc client (kiwiirc.com) for this conenction, plus it ends in a b which is in my normal nick < 1477924112 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? porthello < 1477924113 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner. < 1477924459 0 :oniifiv!~vifino@tty.sh QUIT :Quit: Who turned this off?! D:< < 1477924773 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bing has a nice haloween theme today < 1477924986 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqvsNz2QMbI < 1477925169 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the usa government is on the brink of capitulating to the U.S. cat population as usual < 1477925251 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail the glorious Imperium Felium! < 1477925262 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like our Halloween Doodle game. < 1477925574 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute kitty < 1477925985 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fizzie < 1477925987 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg < 1477926014 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( They have recently switched to the non-evil side. ) < 1477926820 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477927149 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477927450 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. < 1477927453 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'galaxy': A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. < 1477928725 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477929762 0 :navet!~harvey@APuteaux-551-1-121-30.w92-132.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1477931047 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477931360 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477932129 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1477932365 0 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477933558 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1057 < 1477933559 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1057: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1477933711 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! < 1477933712 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look < 1477933954 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stuff in news < 1477934964 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people call the world map in a video game the "overworld". Is this because of the Legend of Zelda game? < 1477935100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be by contrast with dungeons? < 1477935258 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot JOIN :#esoteric < 1477935342 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest abstruse goose is pretty awesome < 1477935374 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way. that comic is dead, isn't it? < 1477936353 0 :izalove!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/4VxsfTG.png goto soSueMe; < 1477936398 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:bcaa:95b3:6d72:44f4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477936553 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1477936555 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo2 < 1477936559 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:bcaa:95b3:6d72:44f4 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477936601 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477936683 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1477936767 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellovilion[1] :) < 1477936794 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ wb hppavilion[1] :p < 1477936807 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloony < 1477936849 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sort moony < 1477936850 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort: open failed: moony: No such file or directory < 1477936870 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "moony" | sort < 1477936871 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony < 1477936878 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1477936890 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be mnooy < 1477936897 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1477937021 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "m\no\no\nn\y\n" < 1477937022 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m \ o \ o \ n\y < 1477937026 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "m\no\no\nn\y\n" | sort < 1477937027 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m \ n\y \ o \ o < 1477937036 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "m\no\no\nn\ny\n" | sort < 1477937037 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :m \ n \ o \ o \ y < 1477937219 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:bc3d:1c8:eb2f:583f JOIN :#esoteric < 1477937232 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb augur < 1477937241 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: i think it's dead in the same way pbf is. namely, it updates irregularly spread out over very long spans of time < 1477937246 0 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1477937288 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: maybe... < 1477937296 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1477937306 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's more dead than Everyday Heroes < 1477937312 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :praps < 1477937317 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org TOPIC #esoteric :News: esolang contest at http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | Currently dressed up as a channel for practical use. Scary! | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive bot testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1477937544 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:bc3d:1c8:eb2f:583f QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477937914 0 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1477938549 0 :jeffl35!jeffl@unaffiliated/jeffl35 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1477938578 0 :jeffl35!jeffl@unaffiliated/jeffl35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477938581 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1477938712 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477939385 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tricky part with vegetables is that many of them have two names in Hungarian, and you have to learn both of the names to make sense of menus, recipes, or price signs in shops or markets. Specifically, krumpli = burgonya; zöldborsó = cukorborsó, fehérretek = jégcsapretek, pirosretek = vajretek (IIRC, it's confusing because there's also sörretek) < 1477939385 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :, spenót = paraj. < 1477939423 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Food names are tricky. < 1477939642 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1477939861 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since as a kid you only learn one of the names from your family, learning the rest is sort of a rite of passage during growing up. < 1477939873 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyy < 1477939886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is kind of true in english also < 1477939921 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's meat < 1477939966 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard one explanation for the naming of meat being that the peasants called animals by their germanic names and the nobles by their romantic ones, and the differentiation by animal vs meat came about because the nobles mostly ate animals and the peasants mostly didn't < 1477939985 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1477940086 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the only examples I can think of in English are swedes and aubergines < 1477940105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like there are more but i can't remember offhand < 1477940135 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= rutabagas and eggplants respectively) < 1477940187 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= < 1477940199 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rutabagas are square roots, if i remember correctly < 1477940327 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meat doesn't have many exacly equivalent words in Hungarian (though there's baromfi = szárnyas), but there is a large vocabulary for the same animal when it's male, female, neutered, young, etc, and of specific body parts that are applicable to only one animal (tarja, bélszín, szűzérme). < 1477940418 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Betseg 5* 10New user account < 1477940436 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has similar < 1477940440 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :although many are not used these days < 1477940623 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you think Samhain will be? People are not always agreement. To some people it is October 31 (same as Hallowe'en) in the northern hemisphere, to some people it is 15 Scorpio in the northern hemisphere (regardless what date that might be), to some people it depends on the phase of the moon, and to some people "Samhain" simply means "November". (And, "Hallowe'en" is short for "Hallows Eve".) < 1477940663 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg59k8u5f6xsilu.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1477940696 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I myself don't care when in Samhain, but it is sometime near now; it is how the seasons go) < 1477940744 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallows Day is November 1, but how common does anyone do anything for Hallows Day anymore? < 1477940795 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's still celebrated in some branches of Christianity < 1477940802 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's traditionally a feast day < 1477940806 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is < 1477940823 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although probably some people ignore it even if they are Christian < 1477940843 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1477940850 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it's a bank holiday here and the custom is for people to visit the cementaries for graves of their dead relatives (relatives who are still alive are visited on Easter and Christmas) < 1477940872 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Ah, OK. Where is that? < 1477940890 0 :alercah!raedford@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungary < 1477940902 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very popular custom, so much that there are extra buses going to cementaries < 1477940907 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1477940909 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in Hungary < 1477940954 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :❄ping < 1477940957 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1477940998 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have read is that the Catholic Church invented the name Hallows Eve to go with Hallows Day, even though they did not invent the stuff that happens on Hallows Eve. < 1477941180 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, it is sensible to put the religious holidays according to the seasons (which is what Pagans generally do), even though Christians don't. This can be problem in southern hemisphere because Christmas is on Dec.25 even though it is the summer time there! < 1477941243 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So obviously it's a commercialized holiday where flower shops earn a lot of money, just like women's day, Valentine day, and teachers' day.) < 1477941244 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it make sense to you or not (regardless of your religion, even if you are non-religious, I think it makes sense) < 1477941329 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, probably many shops will earn a lot of money because a lot of commercialized holiday is done, maybe a bit too much, but it is your choice to buy it or not, anyways. < 1477941333 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily, there seems to be no commercialized custom for October 23rd yet, despite that it's a national holiday. That's a market hole someone should grab. < 1477941355 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What holiday is October 23? < 1477941371 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remembrance of the revolution of 1956 < 1477941391 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a sad one, but that doesn't stop getting commercialized as far as I can see < 1477941688 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@74-114-87-69.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1477941717 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if people want to buy it they can but they should not force people to buy it. If people want to buy it then the store should remain open for them and earn money. But, they have to know what to sell, if that is what they intend to do! < 1477941823 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477941933 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:e4c6:4190:8ff7:2b5b JOIN :#esoteric < 1477942221 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:e4c6:4190:8ff7:2b5b QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1477942527 0 :jeffl35!?@? NICK :jeff-the-killer < 1477942714 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file formats support by my farbfeld utilities is still limited: PNG (RW), CHR (PC, Famicom, or Gameboy) (RW), PBM/PPM/PGM (W), Z-machine XZIP picture library (R). < 1477942725 0 :17SAAF3NW!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1477942725 0 :7GHAALOJK!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1477943420 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy programmer's Christmas! < 1477943571 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to you as well, Taneb < 1477943607 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did you invent christmas < 1477943675 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, no < 1477943686 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanebventions < 1477943687 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. < 1477943712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd tanebvention//s#any#Christmas, nor any# < 1477943714 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents Christmas, nor anything involving se < 1477943718 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses < 1477943728 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? the oxford comma < 1477943729 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oxford comma? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477943729 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1477943735 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1477943741 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1477943743 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1477943745 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanebvention < 1477943746 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents Christmas, nor anything involving sex. < 1477943760 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be ok < 1477943769 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was reading a pretty good chick tract today < 1477943773 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491/1075/1075_12.gif < 1477943874 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I don't not invent Christmas either < 1477943965 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I suggest that you invent it. you can make a great profit from it, selling electronics and other stuff people buy as gifts. < 1477944211 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tweet < 1477944211 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477944215 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twitter < 1477944216 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). < 1477944222 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooral < 1477944231 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1477944243 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1477944244 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. < 1477944248 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tweetoflakes < 1477944249 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweetoflakes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1477944259 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`now < 1477944260 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. < 1477944265 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you revert me? < 1477944282 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did? < 1477944291 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I reverted myself. < 1477944345 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1477944359 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see youre edit command < 1477944379 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you saw my `now < 1477944392 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which shows the current state of the file modified by the most recent command. < 1477944400 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`before shows the previous state.) < 1477944431 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just played a computer golf game; I managed to hit the ball into the sand, and then my second stroke was also into the sand, and then from the sand I managed to hit it into the hole, making par. < 1477944438 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hoag < 1477944439 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ revert \ revert \ revert \ slwd tanebvention//s#any#Christmas, nor any# \ learn A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. \ ` sed -i \'s/ / /\' wisdom/orodruin \ le/rn theseus/Theseus was a Greek inventor who was charged with impossible-to-detect < 1477944471 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand I don't see the point of your wisdom entry. < 1477944475 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm missing something? < 1477945440 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: did you fix the @more bug yet twh < 1477946138 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477947229 0 :hydraz!?@? NICK :amused < 1477950034 0 :moony_the_lycan!~moonythed@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477951241 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477951286 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1477951287 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :preorder//A preorder is just a small thin category. < 1477951381 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1477951382 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooodl//nooooooodl is the correct spelling < 1477951393 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? lynn < 1477951394 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynn likes to impersonate seasonal cucurbitaceæ. < 1477951410 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn lynnnnnn is the correct spelynnng < 1477951412 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'lynnnnnn': lynnnnnn is the correct spelynnng < 1477951484 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget lynnnnnn < 1477951487 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1477951502 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellochaf. shouldn't it be lyyyyyyyyyn? < 1477951511 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hth < 1477951517 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY TDH < 1477951590 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows where lynn even is < 1477951600 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477951602 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find lynn even if presented with a lynnear map < 1477951631 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thwacks shachaf. 0.91 Sh.
< 1477951643 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like this scale < 1477951670 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you rather have it be the FP (FunPun) scale? < 1477951696 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask lynn hellynn. do you know where you are? < 1477951696 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1477951888 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1477951963 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477951990 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477952054 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477952070 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1477952174 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1477952234 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the topic today ? I'm new < 1477952251 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the topic message? That is the topic today. < 1477952260 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topic in general is a bit different question. < 1477952263 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's zzo38: soon to be yesterday's topic < 1477952302 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome shalashaska33 < 1477952303 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shalashaska33: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1477952358 0 :shalashaska33!~shalashas@gateway-us.privatoria.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1477952506 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcoming people make them leave... < 1477952644 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have wanted a channel about something else < 1477952664 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they leave when they learn that the channel isn't what they wanted it to be < 1477952672 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1477952714 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? #esoteric < 1477952715 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone. < 1477952784 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just started a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCctpS7fJyQh6O5H44uN-4bA < 1477952789 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that name was a Metal Gear Solid reference. < 1477952790 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gonna do a tutorial series on brainfuck < 1477952806 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if that means they were more or less likely than average to be looking for something else than us. < 1477952837 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how much is the average? < 1477952868 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have statistics on that. < 1477952870 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck again? what's wrong why all the other esolangs? < 1477952898 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF's the most popular < 1477952905 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something many people want to learn < 1477952932 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also easy enough that it can be viably taught, and has enough depth to give a lot of material < 1477952972 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas more difficult esolangs are often about finding the trick that lets you compile something else into them < 1477953060 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... compiling something else into them. let me check if you fixed your description of your M:tG turing completeness proof < 1477953093 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was wrong with it? < 1477953110 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:StackFlow < 1477953115 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we believe it's fixable < 1477953123 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a trivial one word fix < 1477953180 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-15-88.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The active player's triggers are placed on the stack first in an order of his choice, and then the nonactive player does his triggers in his order. < 1477953328 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :his or her hth < 1477953345 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am giving out candy < 1477953359 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANT! < 1477953367 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a bunch of people in costumes today. < 1477953384 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a bunch of people in costumes on Saturday in the mall < 1477953437 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a bunch of people in costumes in Saturday in the tube. < 1477953477 0 :moonheart08!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1477953478 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1477953481 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was also http://www.mcmcomiccon.com/london/ so I don't know if they were participants there or just some sort of a pre-Halloween thing. < 1477953494 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw a bunch of people Saturday, but it's far away and there's no proof Saturday exists. < 1477953532 0 :moonheart08!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Client Quit < 1477953628 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be switching my windows computer to a GNU/Linux Debian system. any advice before i do this? < 1477953679 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhelloony. backup your personal stuff, and that's about it. < 1477953693 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: backup in advance; and assuming you're planning to continue as dual-boot, get Windows to repartition the disk in advance to make a lot of empty space < 1477953712 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then install Linux to the empty space (partitioning that as you like) < 1477953724 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This immovable files thing Windows does is very annoying. < 1477953733 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is better at resizing drives in its own formats than the typical Linux installer is < 1477953736 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: indeed :-( < 1477953746 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally figured out how to disable enough things to resize my NTFS partition to the size I wanted. < 1477953756 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it was a long and complicated list. < 1477953770 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: try to search on the internet for experience by people who tried to use linux with hardware you use, especially wrt power management, video card, wifi card, and hardware raid. < 1477953773 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap files, System Restore, all sorts of things. < 1477953827 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a laptop and a not entirely obscure model, usually someone's written an article about how Linux runs on it. < 1477953841 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a laptop. Toshiba Satellite < 1477953857 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C55-B5300 < 1477953870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1477953898 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's more important for notebooks because (a) power management is more important there, (b) wifi cards are more important there, and (c) you can't easily add other hardware to replace hardware you can't get to work with linux < 1477953926 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've installed Ubuntu on a Toshiba Satellite before now, it went fine < 1477953966 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shaventions < 1477953967 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them. < 1477953987 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've installed Debian on a Toshiba Tecra 730CDT, it didn't go terribly well. < 1477953997 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls be* < 1477953998 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess it went reasonably well, but it was a little convoluted. < 1477953998 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access be*: No such file or directory < 1477954002 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1477954005 0 :FaerieFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls be* < 1477954006 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access be*: No such file or directory < 1477954021 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, does Debian have a secure boot cert? < 1477954036 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does the Toshiba in question have a secure boot configuration? < 1477954039 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that might need dealing with < 1477954051 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's complicated... it has one in the future, I think < 1477954058 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: POLYMER CHICKEN < 1477954064 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think on many computers you can disable the secure boot < 1477954069 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the channel currently is a joke but i did create a ~50 slide presentation which goes into depth how to program high level programs in brainfuck < 1477954086 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: yes but Windows bitches if you do that < 1477954087 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :including a language i wrote which keeps track of variables and does other neat stuff < 1477954094 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with secure boot isn't its existence but its configuration < 1477954107 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made sure that this laptop allows changing the secure boot configuration before buying it < 1477954124 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like right now if you search "how to code in brainfuck" basically nothing shows up but printing basic strings < 1477954125 0 :^v!v^@me.pxtst.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1477954126 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the Linux half of the configuration changing was buggy last I checked < 1477954129 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you figure out the job thing? < 1477954137 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I had an interview last week < 1477954145 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard back yet; the interview went fairly well < 1477954149 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interview? nice < 1477954162 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether I get the job pretty much depends on how good the other candidates were, I suspect I'd get it if nobody else applied < 1477954177 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's down to whether any of them are better than me < 1477954182 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of job? < 1477954193 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming for a CS department < 1477954199 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rederps and shrinks the C partition to make room for the linux partitions
< 1477954200 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than you [at the interview process] < 1477954224 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :33-44 GB should be enough i hope. >_> < 1477954239 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of programming? < 1477954242 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i cant get much more than that due to me being a complete derp and using almost all the diskspace < 1477954244 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to write databases? < 1477954248 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1477954250 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's compiler-related I think < 1477954280 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the work environment seem pleasant? < 1477954293 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I've worked there before < 1477954304 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: currently I have three Linux partitions: swap, home, everything else < 1477954306 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1477954318 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "everything else" is currently using 6 GiB, and it's fuller for me than it would be for many other people < 1477954319 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler for Standard ML? < 1477954345 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well the interview was in OCaml < 1477954353 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the programming sections < 1477954367 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other sections were there? < 1477954373 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the interview process is good? < 1477954381 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal job interview stuff, "tell me about yourself" and the like < 1477954417 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was OK with the normal interviewy parts, the programming part I had no real issue with the questions/tasks but was upset at all the surrounding infrastructure < 1477954422 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1477954427 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tell me about yourself" sounds like one of the most unpleasant questions anyone could ask me. < 1477954434 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a request, not a question. < 1477954444 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it's very common in interviews < 1477954447 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they elaborated a bit < 1477954449 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Requests and questions are isomorphic < 1477954451 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm unusual in this respect? < 1477954454 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1477954460 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that they were interested in the sorts of things I'd done in previous jobs, what relevant experience I had, etc. < 1477954471 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of interest, do you have a job? < 1477954477 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1477954484 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things you've done in previous jobs, now that's a better question < 1477954486 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, adjusting C drive partition... now < 1477954495 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've had others before this one. < 1477954498 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they ask you to tell them about yourself in the interview? < 1477954513 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's one that's probably worth to prepare for when you go to a job interview like this < 1477954516 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "tell me about yourself" has been a relatively uncommon question in interviews. < 1477954516 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Though the first time I read that requestion, I read it as "let me tell you about yourself" < 1477954537 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: anyway I think 10 GB should easily be enough for the OS, programs, etc. < 1477954543 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One time I was asked "what is your dream job?", which makes me almost as uncomfortable. < 1477954543 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything beyond that will just be for storing your own files < 1477954547 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a REALLY unpleasant thing to hear, though not a question at all < 1477954549 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use the Windows partition for those < 1477954549 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still want more :p < 1477954567 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was hired, I looked at the internal company interview guidelines, and I found out that they just asked that question to put the candidate at ease. < 1477954572 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer was effectively ignored. < 1477954575 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you imagine? < 1477954617 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the rest of the interview was asking me technical questions, which I was much more comfortable with. < 1477954624 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'd find dream job hard to answer. the problem is that my dream job is not having to do anything but getting paid a lot, but that's economically unrealistic, and I don't know enough about the current market situation to figure out an answer that's the most dreamlike among economically possible ones. < 1477954646 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: buy an external hard disk? < 1477954659 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas, may do that < 1477954696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another "tell me about yourself" thing companies implicitly do is ask for a résumé. < 1477954704 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a CV. < 1477954728 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refused to provide that at first, but eventually I gave in. < 1477954744 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is downloading the ubuntu install disk, because he thinks it may work better for a first-time dualbooter
< 1477954775 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've managed to use 23.4 gigabytes of "everything else". < 1477954802 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which 15 are in /usr. < 1477954819 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, anything there that's particularly large, or is it an accumulation of small things? < 1477954831 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how much in /usr/local ? < 1477954833 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohderp it thinks i have a AMD computer. < 1477954843 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many ghc installs? < 1477954844 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 144 kilobytes. < 1477954857 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the value i need to make it give me the intel install < 1477954858 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's just a matter of always installing and never removing any packages. < 1477954879 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: if it says "amd64", that's the name of the 64-bit architecture used by both Intel and AMD processors < 1477954885 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD invented it, then Intel started producing it too < 1477954892 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1477954900 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :3507 installed packages, according to dpkg-query. < 1477954902 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a derp. < 1477954931 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably some way of asking dpkg to list them in order of size used on disk. < 1477954969 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think texlive makes up for a big chunk of that. < 1477954986 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just look for large directories or files, eg. du -a | sort -n < 1477955036 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, du -a | egrep "^[0-9]{4}" | sort -n < 1477955061 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! I think I made a small object that maps natural numbers to natural number k-tuples < 1477955062 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, texlive and libreoffice take up a lot < 1477955075 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, /usr/share/doc/texlive-doc is over a gigabyte. < 1477955084 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, yay, free 73 GB for whatever i want < 1477955096 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to clean up my win installation anyways < 1477955098 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the first really "specific" directory; the only bigger ones are things like /usr/lib/gcc and /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu. < 1477955102 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: did you accidentally delete your Windows installation? < 1477955106 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1477955109 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1477955121 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :im on _hexchat_ < 1477955130 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where did the extra 50GB come from? < 1477955140 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :free space < 1477955151 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a 400GB drive < 1477955157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1477955166 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deleted your whole porn folder? other movies? music collection? photographs? temporary cache files? spam? < 1477955174 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1477955179 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaded version of your mailbox? < 1477955188 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should clean my downloads folder :p < 1477955206 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video games or video game installers maybe? < 1477955221 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i deleted a 3gb game i dont play anymore < 1477955226 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1477955232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck my life the tearing is back when i scroll < 1477955248 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe not... < 1477955262 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :disable the stupid soft scrolling :P < 1477955361 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc logs? < 1477955379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, that's a bad solution and you know it < 1477955402 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know it, I really hate smooth scrolling. < 1477955413 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Beeswax14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50068&oldid=50056 5* 03Albedo 5* (+0) 10/* instructions */ code error corrected < 1477955436 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: try scrolling by dragging the scrollbar middle with the first mouse button or pressing pagedown rather than using the scroll wheel or other methods. < 1477955464 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do i have to burn the install disk to the USB? < 1477955519 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: there are multiple methods. I usually copy the tiny (network) installer to the hard disk, then boot it from a grub boot loader (either already on hard disk or from a bootable dvd with grub) < 1477955533 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/network/netboot/ < 1477955545 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, im using a net installer. < 1477955562 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the netboot installer makes it easy because it consists of only a kernel and an initrd, no other files necessary < 1477955565 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to a somehow 1GB usb :P < 1477955577 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks debian netinstall :P < 1477955612 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burning to a USB stick is normally the easiest method, although it's not the only one that works < 1477955612 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it also means having to download everything from network redundantly each time you install < 1477955773 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1477955788 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i already have a netinstall thing downloaded to my computer :p < 1477955813 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn the netinstall plus a boot loader to the usb stick? < 1477956303 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-2hj4tbos9tbg59k8u5f6xsilu.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1477956540 0 :moony!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the bootable drive < 1477956678 0 :iovoid!?@? NICK :spooki < 1477956679 0 :spooki!?@? NICK :spookio < 1477956979 0 :moony!?@? NICK :moony_the_lycan < 1477957078 0 :moony_the_lycan!~luxon@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1477957520 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 2^2^|R larger than 2^|R? < 1477957522 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so < 1477957595 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google cantor's theorem < 1477957595 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor's_theorem < 1477957604 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that answers a bunch of the recent questions hth < 1477957633 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ty < 1477957658 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably P {} = {{}} < 1477957693 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I being thanked? < 1477957701 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Whoops < 1477957703 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not sure? < 1477957705 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ty < 1477957722 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, S(0) = {}; S(k) = 2^S(k-1); < 1477957734 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do people confuse me and shachaf? < 1477957784 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is a good question < 1477957811 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tab completion and qwert < 1477957819 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: With an existentially satisfying answer form which springs forth the meaning of life, a Grand Unified theorem, and the secret to immortality < 1477957827 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/form/from/ < 1477957852 0 :hppavilion[1]!~Doslowdow@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Is QWERT the union of QWERTY and QWERTZ? < 1477957862 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1477957896 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need a QWERTX too < 1477957913 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we have azerty