2016-10-01: 00:00:28 Well, 'like' would be a better translation I think, but sure 00:00:34 What is the minimum number of symbols (with minimalist rules) required to- in an unambiguous way- express all of traditional algebra? 00:00:54 oerjan: it's the go-to word for that, yes 00:01:07 I also see that shachaf repeated himself, but with correct grammar this time. 00:01:11 a+b can be expressed as a-(-b), but to reduce rules we can do a-(0-b) 00:01:22 int-e: Look. Last time I was unsure of myself. 00:01:33 int-e: I looked it up on the Internet and I found a version with incorrect grammar. 00:01:46 shachaf: Yes, I recall, vaguely. 00:02:28 In APL, ?B is roll B (choose an integer at random from the first B integers (nevermind that "first k integers" makes no sense) 00:02:44 FireFly: good. the wiktionary example seemed rather archaic ("Av konungen gillad och stadfäst.") 00:02:54 Heh 00:02:56 hppavilion[1]: of course it makes sense. they are the first k integers. 00:03:06 That's an out of context quote. 00:03:07 boily: what's the first integer? 00:03:08 http://microapl.com/apl_help/ch_020_020_170.htm 00:03:18 "Generates numbers chosen at random from the series of the first N integers which start at the index origin (⎕IO)" 00:03:32 Oh, it has an index origin. OK. 00:03:40 Yes 00:03:46 One of APL's ugly quirks 00:03:48 I expected A?B to be choosing the first B integers, minus the first A 00:04:11 Except A?B is basically just an array of ?B run A times 00:04:28 hppavilion[1]: -9223372036854775808 hth 00:04:43 hppavilion[1]: yes...that is a lot more useful in an APL context than what you suggested 00:04:48 ...fair enough, can't think of any smaller integers 00:04:48 unidecode 00:04:49 No output. 00:05:17 (I figured it COULD be ordering it as [0, 1, -1, 2, -2, 3, -3, ...], but I doubted it) 00:06:19 oh it appears that shachaf's client put a color reset code before that learn earlier 00:06:31 Hm, ⌈B is the smallest integer ≥ B, ⌊B is the greatest integer ≤ B 00:06:32 for "the first B integers, minus the first A" you'd probably do A+?B-A 00:06:44 int-e: Yes. It wasn't a serious learn. 00:06:51 FireFly: Yes, I figured 00:07:20 A⌈B is the greater, A⌊B is the lesser 00:07:25 int-e: SPOILER 00:07:27 What's the function for round? 00:07:30 the notation ⌈x⌉/⌊x⌋ for ceiling/floor originated in A Programming Language 00:07:52 oerjan: I was puzzled! 00:07:58 as in, the book, not the later programming language that followed from the notation 00:07:59 (sorry...) 00:08:57 ... 00:09:15 int-e: it's particularly insidious because it's one of the characters that doesn't get copied in irssi... 00:09:42 this one? 00:09:44 hppavilion[1]: I'm more familiar with J than APL, but AFAIK it doesn't have a 'round' primitive; you'd have to implement it in terms of ceil/floor 00:10:05 APL would've been more interesting with 3 functions for every operator *; A*, *B, and A*B 00:10:15 no, this one. 00:10:21 int-e> this one? 00:10:44 sorry, i got a newline on the end 00:10:55 OK, but... how? How do you get the fractional- wait, floor(x) if abs(x)-floor(abs(x)) < 0.5 else ceil(x). Easy. 00:11:06 Counting to 15 is hard. 00:11:16 confuse oerjan 00:11:39 my browser doesn't show it in the logs either, so i have to paste it into irssi, and _then_ i can see on my own editing line 00:11:53 *it on 00:11:54 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:11:57 (ceil(-0.5) = 0, right? I assume so, but I can see it being defined as -1 just as easily, and really being better that way) 00:12:08 my browser shows a box with 000F in it there, hmm. 00:12:18 maybe I lack the right fonts to make it invisible. 00:12:19 (If we define ceil(-0.5) = -1, then ceil(x) = -ceil(-x) 00:12:21 ) 00:12:28 i suppose i can probably see it in vim too 00:12:59 oerjan: wait, windows, which browser? 00:13:19 ⍋B is a nice function though... 00:13:25 * int-e is using firefox under linux, that may make a difference 00:13:40 int-e: IE hth 00:14:05 oerjan: stop exploding the internet 00:14:45 (heh that's almost a plausible typo in qwerty) 00:14:47 * oerjan waves his triceratops bone cane at int-e 00:15:15 oerjan: I knew you were living in the stone age :P 00:15:34 I don't mind taxes, but I don't like the idea of paying taxes that I'm not required to pay. 00:15:39 Er, wrong channel. 00:16:26 (also I have no clue by how many million years that is off; I blame the Feuerstein family) 00:16:43 itym the Pierrafeu. 00:16:47 int-e: i'm pretty sure IE _used_ to show those chars, but it changed at some point. 00:17:10 int-e: approx. 65 million years hth 00:17:23 I mean the Flintstones. 00:17:29 i think triceratops was there until the end 00:17:29 oerjan: thanks 00:18:08 iirc they're just "Flint" in norwegian. or at least used to be. 00:18:12 -!- Caesura has joined. 00:18:18 (no:flint = en:flintstone) 00:18:24 boily: that's all french to me 00:19:14 (google helped) 00:20:12 hppavilion[1]: uhm, you might want to learn APL a bit before having opinions on its parsing rules :P it really wouldn't work well to have both prefix, postfix and infix 00:20:23 Yes xD 00:20:27 hm apparently flint means the same thing in english. material vs. piece of it? 00:20:35 FireFly: And circumfix and postcircumfix and... 00:20:39 You could come up with such a language probably, but it certainly wouldn't be APL 00:21:02 hppavilion[1]: the original APL notation had several circumfix operators (such as floor/ceil, as mentioned) 00:21:04 what about interfix? 00:21:14 INTERCAL has a few unary operators that go one character inside their argument 00:21:18 hppavilion[1]: http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/APL.htm 00:21:29 ais523: heh, that is pretty bizarre 00:21:33 defining ceil(-0.5) as -1 is pretty stupid 00:21:33 ais523: What if your argument is one character? 00:21:43 (I have a feeling the answer is "INTERCAL") 00:21:52 generally speaking, ceil(x) >= x (hence the name) 00:21:53 hppavilion[1]: that can't happen in INTERCAL 00:21:56 myname: But then -ceil(-x) is equal to ceil(x) 00:22:03 all legal operands are at least two characters long 00:22:12 hppavilion[1]: it's not ceil anymore 00:22:26 myname: And this satisfies a property that abs(ceil(x)) > abs(x) 00:22:31 it's "round away from zero" 00:22:38 ceil rounds toward +infty 00:22:41 FireFly: Fair enough 00:22:54 I suppose it could be called "magnitude ceiling" or "absolute ceiling" 00:22:55 hppavilion[1]: that's not what ceil says 00:22:59 myname: Well yeah 00:23:01 HireFly 00:23:03 a ceiling is ebove you, isn't it 00:23:11 myname: OK 00:23:34 On the other hand, I wanted a name for this operation: 00:23:38 exp . abs . log 00:24:05 myname: I have a bad habit of thinking of numbers as (sign, magnitude) rather than just value 00:24:07 myname: but if you stand on a mirror, you see the reflection of the ceiling below you 00:24:10 and 0 is like a mirror 00:24:10 hth 00:24:28 shachaf: you don't? 00:24:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:24:41 I don't? 00:24:46 next we'll discuss how negative numbers are imaginary... 00:25:06 shachaf: I made an operation called sign-preserving power (x^'y) that is equal to sgn(x)*abs(x)^y 00:25:08 If negative numbers are imaginary, what sorts of numbers are complex? 00:25:09 i never watched in a mirror and saw my foot pointing upwards 00:25:18 shachaf: All of them hth 00:25:20 ah, zon_ 00:25:32 who would ever step _on_ a mirror 00:25:40 Me? 00:25:45 a ceiling is ebove you, isn't it <-- technically, ceilings are in the opposite direction on the opposite side of the earth >:) 00:25:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:26:17 oerjan: no, because downwards is not defined that way 00:27:27 http://tinyurl.com/z52q2x6 is a bit creepy. 00:27:43 oerjan: Downwards is defined in terms of "away from the center of the earth" 00:27:51 What, posting tinyurl.com links in IRC? 00:27:57 s/away from/towards/ 00:28:13 hppavilion[1]: and ceilings are generally upwards hth 00:28:21 oerjan: Yes 00:28:43 shachaf: I usually use the plain link but in this case it was long and uninformative? 00:28:47 ...And if we treat the center of the earth as the origin, that means that someone on the opposite side of the earth is closer to you than their ceiling 00:29:06 I clicked on it but that's only because I know you a bit, I guess. 00:29:07 myname: australians beg to differ 00:29:28 http://archivelikeyou.com/files/fullimages/Jeppe_Hein_wallner_12.jpg looks like a mirror one can step on 00:29:59 I'm sure that if you look down into that mirror, you see the ceiling. 00:30:36 shachaf: Yes 00:30:36 You know the puzzle about why mirrors flip things left-to-right? 00:30:53 who would ever step _on_ a mirror <-- now i'm reminded of my visit to the CN tower in toronto... (if that had only been a mirror...) 00:31:21 OK, mceil(x) is sgn(x)*ceil(abs(x)), ceil(x) is the smallest integer ≥x. Floor is the same (with mfloor and floor) 00:31:37 shachaf: I do. 00:31:53 It's a good puzzle. 00:32:01 hppavilion[1]: what is it good for? 00:32:16 myname: Statistics, probably 00:39:47 @tell quintopia QUINTHELLOPIA! I finally got my postcard, 28 days later... (well, 29 considering timezones) 00:39:47 Consider it noted. 00:40:11 date 00:40:12 Fri Sep 30 23:40:00 UTC 2016 00:42:15 lifthrasiirland is so far away... 00:42:35 learn The password of the month is 00:47:22 Oh maybe we should make a bin/learn command to make the illusion perfect. 00:49:11 -!- Menphis has joined. 00:51:11 Perhaps you people can answer me avout a punishment device or construct of yore. What is it called that was put around the necks and hands of criminals but was not fixed in any place? Usually made out of sturdy wood. 00:51:40 int-e: What illusion? 00:51:45 ? password 00:51:47 The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 00:51:54 ...cool 00:52:04 How can you tell whether d^2x = 0? <-- it occurs to me that d is in some sense an _arbitrary_ derivative. so to get d^2 x = 0 you have to select the right one. 00:52:13 which learn 00:52:15 ​/hackenv/bin/learn 00:52:22 cat /hackenv/bin/learn 00:52:23 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^$$an\?\|the$$ //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" 00:52:31 url /hackenv/bin/learn 00:52:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/learn 00:54:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivation_(differential_algebra) 00:54:43 * Zarutian patiently waits for an answer. 00:55:26 int-e: ...OK, I give up, hth did that work? 00:57:00 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Maybe learn should be able to detect a phrase between |vertical bars aka pipes| (after stripping /an?|the/) and use the entire phrase instead of just the first word) 00:57:35 Zarutian: pillory 00:58:00 oerjan: thanks. 00:58:24 (so "learn |John Lenon| was a member of the Beatles." would put "John Lenon was a member of the Beatles." in ) 00:58:26 ? wisdome 00:58:27 The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type wisdom. 00:59:11 Zarutian: or hm, not sure about the "not fixed in any place" part. although there were many variants of these things... 00:59:24 hppavilion[1]: nice usage of the «œ». 00:59:26 le/rn_append wisdome//Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere". 00:59:31 Learned 'wisdome': The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type wisdom. /Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere". 00:59:36 boily: I never used œ... 00:59:51 wait, you didn't... 00:59:59 It was HackEgo 01:00:26 oerjan: it fits what I had read in an Alita Battle Angel manga. 01:00:29 int-e: set the password of the month to , but when I asked it said it was au cœur de septembre 01:00:35 * boily looks shiftily at HackEgo. «T'en sais trop sur les ligatures. C'est louche.» 01:00:39 I suppose someone might have edited in PM, but... 01:00:44 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:00:49 oerjan: couldnt remember what it was called exactly until you said it. 01:00:51 culprits wisdom/password 01:00:57 fizzie evilipse oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan gamemanj int-e oerjan int-e oerjan mroman oerjan oerjan oerjan mroman_ 01:01:07 Do you know what is 58.86.33.135? 01:01:14 ? password of the month 01:01:15 password of the month? ¯$$°​_o)/¯ 01:01:29 -!- Caesura has joined. 01:01:35 unidecode password 01:01:37 ​[U+0070 LATIN SMALL LETTER P] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0077 LATIN SMALL LETTER W] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] 01:02:07 Zarutian: there were some other links in that wp article. Cangue is a chinese variant so may fit for a manga... 01:02:35 which culprits 01:02:36 ​/hackenv/bin/culprits 01:02:42 url /hackenv/bin/culprits 01:02:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/culprits 01:02:51 and "shrew's fiddle" was also portable. 01:03:06 which hoag 01:03:07 ​/hackenv/bin/hoag 01:03:15 url hackenv/bin/hoag 01:03:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/hackenv/bin/hoag 01:03:36 url /hackenv/bin/hoag 01:03:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/hoag 01:04:08 where learn 01:04:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: where: not found 01:04:20 Wait... 01:04:42 unidecode learn 01:04:44 ​[U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] 01:04:59 oerjan: well I was thinking more of the thing that looks like the criminal has his/her hands and head through a table plus the document describing their crime. 01:05:28 unidecode The 01:05:30 ​[U+0054 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0020 SPACE] 01:06:24 wisdom 01:06:27 taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions) 01:06:30 oerjan: Do we have a reverse-culprits? 01:06:35 oerjan: been toying with the idea of using an 'cyberized' version of cangue in an near future sci-fi story. 01:06:50 which echo-p 01:06:51 ​/hackenv/bin/echo-p 01:06:59 url /hackenv/bin/echo-p 01:07:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/echo-p 01:07:05 hppavilion[1]: what is that wissphere for? 01:07:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:07:25 i'm not sure whether i'm missing a reference, or you are 01:07:33 hppavilion[1]: reverse-culprits? a list of people that make you write wisdom entries? 01:07:41 oerjan: The Wisdome goes underground as well, so it should be called 'wissphere' 01:08:18 -!- heroux has joined. 01:08:23 boily: No, you enter a username and it returns a list of the last 10 or so files that they edited 01:08:42 So reverse-culprits boily would tell me what you've done with HackEgo recently 01:09:33 I haven't done much recently to HackEgo... 01:09:47 ...oh my god int-e's learn was never processed by hackego... 01:09:52 Oh my god I'm an idiot... 01:10:27  unidecode learn The password of the month is > shr/unidecoded 01:10:28 ​/hackenv/bin/: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ' \ /hackenv/bin/: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:10:53 unidecode " learn The password of the month is " > shr/decoded 01:10:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unidecode: not found 01:11:09 Oh my god 01:11:12 oerjan: Do we have a reverse-culprits? <-- i don't think so. seems hard to do efficiently. 01:11:21  unidecode " learn The password of the month is " > shr/decoded 01:11:23 ​/hackenv/bin/: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ' \ /hackenv/bin/: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:11:35 ...FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 01:11:45  foo 01:11:46 ​/hackenv/bin/: line 4: foo: command not found 01:11:52 unidecode learn <-- hint, it's before the  01:12:09 oerjan: Yep, that's what I figured. 01:12:13 I was checking 01:12:42 oerjan: It does seem unefficiable at first, but I figure there could be a way to make Mercurial do it inefficiently for us 01:12:59 Zarutian: http://www.pilloryhistory.com/other.html suggests "yoke" 01:13:22 Like, searching for all things with a description starting with "<1>" (Do I need to escape that?) 01:14:21 hppavilion[1]: well yeah, as long as searching all log entries isn't too much. 01:14:32 oerjan: Yes, that's the problem. 01:14:44 hppavilion[1]: also, you don't want to use  with unidecode 01:15:14 i guess searching in backwards order should work if they've actually edited some 01:15:23 Probably only search the last ~500 (which is STILL slow, probably) and print the most recent 10 files 01:15:38 oerjan: Yeah, that's probably what you'd do 01:15:52 slwd wisdome//s,/,, 01:16:00 wisdom/wisdome//The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere". 01:16:21 date 01:16:22 Sat Oct 1 00:16:10 UTC 2016 01:16:28 int-e: the idea is that the pillory|cangue|yoke is big enough for passerbys to see the reason why it is around that person neck plus have a loop of something like monofilament wire embedded inside that will behead the criminal if an serious attempt at removal without cryptographic authorization is performed. 01:16:52 ...wait, what did s,/,, do? 01:16:53 Zarutian: you're on your own there 01:17:07 If there are <10 files, just print all that you find 01:18:24 Oh, newline. Apparently. 01:18:38 I guess? 01:18:41 hppavilion[1]: removed a / you'd accidentally left there 01:18:44 Oh 01:19:27 Wait, I thought le/rn required two slashes... 01:19:34 no, le//rn does 01:19:36 Wait, no, that's mkx 01:20:02 oerjan: I thought le//rn needed you to sacrifice a he-goat to satan though? 01:20:13 no? 01:20:48 Oh 01:21:06 fungot: Do you want us to sacrifice a he-goat to satan? 01:21:06 hppavilion[1]: they say that some guards' palms can be used to practise throwing stones at things, the big black cobra, and scholars, by edward bulwer-lytton) 01:21:14 they're almost the same, except le//rn requires two // but also allows you to give directories 01:21:27 *-two 01:21:39 Wiser words have never been spoken, fungot. 01:21:39 hppavilion[1]: they say that problem breathing is best known for two things. you'll probably find one on the red marble table in front of him. 01:22:00 fungot: But what's the other thing? 01:22:01 hppavilion[1]: lizard corpses aren't confusing. are you a gentleman? two levels ahead is a powerful artifact. anyone who carries it by half. it was locked. he could stand it no longer, until an unsuspecting creature passes by. it stands two to four feet, by snorri sturluson) 01:22:31 ? password 01:22:33 The password of the month is au cœur de septembre 01:22:35 fungot: So problem breathing is best known for whatever's on the red marble table and for lizard corpses? 01:22:35 hppavilion[1]: quetzalcoatl: one of the forest." the dear old man beamed upon her, with dried brown limbs like dead wood showing through moldering bandages. " how the wind, the wizard has hired some help. twenty other arms came rippling out. 01:23:00 ^style 01:23:00 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:23:00 learn The password of the month is Bierstubë. 01:23:04 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is Bierstubë. 01:23:24 ^style ic 01:23:24 Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) 01:23:28 Ooooh 01:23:40 fungot: Can you intracalate? 01:23:45 (Is there INTRACAL?) 01:23:47 Dammit... 01:24:10 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:48 ULFRACAL 01:25:01 oerjan: Never heard 'ulfra'? 01:25:09 (misp. 'ultra'?) 01:25:19 The number of derivatives of INTERCAL is rather ironic, given that it was designed to have no similarities... 01:25:40 it's a misspelling, but not of ultra. 01:25:56 INFRA? 01:26:33 i was trying to do INTER:INTRA::INFRA:? but i think i failed 01:27:25 Ah 01:27:53 oerjan: Well, first of all, INTER:INTRA::?:INFRA 01:28:03 Second, ?=ULTRA 01:28:04 hth 01:28:19 (infrared/ultraviolet) 01:28:26 i don't think so. inter isn't to intra what ultra is to infra. 01:28:35 or wait, is it. 01:30:30 INTER:INTRA::INFER:INFRA ? 01:31:03 INFERNAL ULTERIOR INTEGRAL 01:31:40 ? intercal 01:31:42 INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. 01:32:23 dissonant 01:33:22 in the future, we'll all be COBOL programmers. 01:34:35 the CABAL will see to it 01:35:14 infrarnal 01:35:24 COBOL, the language of my ancestors 01:36:11 I still think #esoteric should create a language JUST reasonable enough that employers will want to make people use it, but out-of-the-ordinary enough that using it is fun (and/or infuriating) for the programmers 01:36:31 Like Java! 01:38:18 Taneb: Like anything BUT Java 01:38:41 Java is bland and generic, with a lot of unnecessary cruft and hyper-formulaic rules 01:40:27 I'm thinking it will draw on math and FP and LP, but remain imperative enough to be usable 01:40:42 Curried functions will be the only option, for example 01:41:58 Java isn't generic. it teases you with false promises, then stabs you in the back with a blunt object. 01:42:54 remind me to copy one very nice line I wrote just to terrorise a few coworkers next Monday. 01:43:07 s/copy/copy you/ 01:43:57 OK 01:44:12 @tell-delay 01:44:12 Unknown command, try @list 01:44:17 Darn 01:44:18 @list 01:44:18 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 01:44:21 @listmodules 01:44:21 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search 01:44:21 slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 01:44:35 @which tell 01:44:35 Unknown command, try @list 01:44:38 @where tell 01:44:38 @help tell 01:44:42 @help tell 01:44:42 tell . When shows activity, tell them . 01:44:46 *sigh* 01:45:00 @module tell 01:45:00 Unknown command, try @list 01:47:35 (There wouldn't happen to be any n s.t. log_n(x) = x forall x, would there?) 01:50:55 1. 01:51:29 boily: log? 01:51:33 log_1. 01:52:01 1^x = x? 01:53:08 log_1(x) = x ∧ x=5 -> 1*1*1*1*1=5 01:53:42 @list tell 01:53:42 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages auto-reply auto-reply? clear-auto-reply 01:53:55 hm 01:54:01 @help auto-reply 01:54:01 auto-reply. Lets lambda-bot auto-reply if someone sends you a message 01:54:14 * oerjan didn't notice that before 01:54:16 @auto-reply 01:54:16 No auto-reply message given. Did you mean @clear-auto-reply? 01:54:20 @help! messages? 01:54:20 messages?. Tells you whether you have any messages 01:55:18 @ask oerjan You've already set auto-reply, haven't you? 01:55:18 Consider it noted. 01:56:09 hppavilion[1]: x*y = log_n(x*y) = log_n x + log_n y = x+y for all x,y hth 01:56:28 @tell hppavilion[1] nope 01:56:28 hppavilion[1] lets you know: haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaands 01:56:28 Consider it noted. 01:56:37 huh 01:56:38 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Happa * New user account 01:59:05 oh, a new user! will it be a real person? 02:01:21 well they don't seem to be trying to edit 02:01:52 real or otherwise 02:01:55 'Happa'... 02:01:57 * hppavilion[1] is suspicious 02:02:03 @massages-lud 02:02:03 oerjan said 5m 35s ago: nope 02:02:08 @tell oerjan OK 02:02:08 Consider it noted. 02:02:17 @messages- 02:02:17 hppavilion[1] said 8s ago: OK 02:02:18 happavalion[1]? 02:02:25 http://www.xkcd.com/1296/ 02:02:43 boily: Some people I've known IRL have pronounced hppavilion1 as 'hap pavilion one' 02:03:00 Clearly, the 1 makes an [i] sound, first of all 02:04:22 -!- Zoroaster has joined. 02:05:56 ...wait, how is it even possible to go without the axiom of choice? 02:06:20 "[AC is] equivalent to the statement that the Cartesian product of a collection of non-empty sets is non-empty." 02:06:21 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:07:39 Last time I checked, the cardinality of the union of a collection of nonempty sets is ≥ the cardinality of any of those sets. 02:08:02 so? 02:08:18 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:08:31 If you take the Cartesian product of a collection of sets and empty the tuples into a set, I'm pretty sure you get their union 02:09:16 that's equivalent to the axiom of choice hth 02:09:21 (that is, {('a', 1), ('a', 2), ('a', 3), ('b', 1), ('b', 2), ('b', 3)} -> {'a', 1, 'b', 2, 3}) 02:09:40 oerjan: Yeah, but I don't see any way you can argue with it 02:10:02 hppavilion[1]: you're assuming there are _any_ tuples in the product to start with. 02:11:23 also it can be proved for a finite number of sets. 02:12:07 to contradict AoC, you need an infinite collection of sets such that you have _no_ way of uniformly selecting an element from one. 02:12:17 *from each 02:12:23 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:12:48 Ah, yes 02:12:51 (the individual sets don't have to be infinite, i think.) 02:14:17 there's the famous quip: you need the AoC to select one element from each of an infinite set of pairs of socks, but not from an infinite set of pairs of shoes. 02:23:54 -!- Menphis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:24:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PAIR CHICKEN). 02:31:10 oerjan: I'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86-Z-CbaHA again, and something is bugging me 02:31:29 The real numbers in the interval <0 -> 1> are uncountable, correct? 02:35:24 (Maybe I interpreted something e said wrong; I suppose that, perhaps, not all points on the circumference can be expressed as k radians for a finite nonnegative integer k) 02:37:52 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 02:37:52 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:38:00 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 02:38:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:42:17 hppavilion[1]: yes 02:42:23 OK... 02:42:37 Yeah, Banack-Tarski is giving me a serious bad-math smell 02:42:51 Like, a you-just-broke-the-rules smell 02:47:22 -!- heroux has joined. 02:48:27 oerjan: Oh, is |ℝ × ℝ| = ℝ? Just checking 02:48:50 yes 02:50:39 don't think too much about banach tarski, they're just playing with sets where your idea of volume can't be applied 02:51:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:47 ? password 03:04:53 The password of the month is Bierstubë. 03:04:59 oerjan: I fell asleep for two hours and missed your inlaurdation 03:10:34 unidecode ℝ × ℝ| = ℝ 03:10:37 ​[U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00D7 MULTIPLICATION SIGN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R] [U+007C VERTICAL LINE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+003D EQUALS SIGN] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+211D DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL R] 03:11:07 oerjan: Right, but isn't the point of all this that it's arbitrary? 03:11:20 If it's not completely arbitrary, what derivatives am I allowed to use? 03:12:55 I don't want to pick a specific derivative. What constraints do I have? I guess I can say "d is a differentiating operator such that d^2x = 0" 03:13:26 But thtne what am I allowed to use it on? 03:15:07 then 03:15:41 you can use it on any function that's differentiable enough times in a neighborhood... 03:32:44 Proposal: No more % (percent) (proportion multiplied by 100). Henceforth, all values are expressed in perunit (symbol like percent with short lines parallel to the main line instead of circles) (multiply by nothing because there's no actual reason to) 03:34:38 instead of %, use ℅ 03:36:00 take ℅ something 03:37:07 unidecode ℅ 03:37:09 ​[U+2105 CARE OF] 03:37:55 Hm, does the order of slices in a pie chart ever matter? Obviously if you make it like that, we all hate you, but does it matter? 03:39:05 (And in general, are pie chart slices supposed to scale by area or by curve subtended by angle?) 03:40:28 What I have implemented is by angle. 03:43:26 Term proposal: Improper Sector 03:43:55 An improper sector is a sector where the ratio of the central angle to tau radians is greater than 1 03:45:12 (so, for example, a circle that kind of overshoots; so a sector with central angle of 3pi radians, or a sesquicircle; 1.5 circles) 03:45:43 zzo38: By angle is most natural, but by area is probably more easy-to-understand to the human eye 03:46:04 (I would recommend having both, with angle as the default but area being a permitted mode) 03:48:36 I thought it might come out the same? 03:50:31 zzo38: No, the area of a circular sector with a radius r and angle theta is (theta*r^2)/2 03:52:23 hppavilion[1]: the area is proportional to the angle unless you vary the radius (in which case it's not an ordinary pie chart) 03:52:34 Well yeah 03:52:35 The radius is the same for each slice though 03:52:47 Therefore, it does come out the same. 03:53:02 oerjan: That's either a pielar angle chart or a stupid needlessly stylized pie chart 03:53:26 (I'm now wondering about elliptical sectors...) 03:54:54 elliptical is tricky, afaiu the correspondence between angle and area isn't even an elementary function... 03:55:24 hm or 03:55:25 oerjan: They are a thing, it looks like; a sector is (theta : angle, radius : distance) 03:55:36 that does seem unlikely, actually. 03:55:55 An elliptical sector is ((theta1 : angle, theta2 : angle), (r1 : distance, r2 : distance)) 03:56:31 it's the arc length that's nonelementary, perhaps. 03:57:03 oerjan: Ah, yes, I don't think there's a good way to calculate the circumference of an ellipse other than infinite series 03:57:09 I once tried to find it 03:58:28 technically that would be the case for a circle too, if someone hadn't declared pi, sin and cos etc. to be "easy" 03:58:59 oerjan: Well, pi is at least constant 03:59:27 yeah but you just try to calculate it without using a series somewhere :P 04:00:25 I mean, there's probably a generalized minor pi-yielding function (not a minor function that yields pi; a function that yields a minor pi) (not to be confused with the Pi Function that's just gamma(x+1)) that calculates the local value of pi for a proportion of the radii 04:00:32 But I don't even know if we know what it is 04:01:14 wat 04:02:14 So a unit elliptical (a unit ellipse is has its x-radius equal to 1 and its y-radius equal to some proportion of its x-radius (which clever people might notice is literally just any real number) sector given by theta1 and theta2 is, basically, the area bounded by a line segment from the origin to the circumference of the ellipse at angle theta1, the same to angle theta2, and the part of the ellipse's circumference between the endpoints 04:02:30 s/$$/))/ 04:03:04 * oerjan glazes over 04:05:27 Hm, so an ellipse is a shape given by point (a, b), point (c, d), and distance k that includes all points (x, y) where sqrt((x-a)^2+(y-b)^2) + sqrt((x-c)^2+(y-d)^2) = k 04:05:29 Apparently 04:05:32 oerjan: Oh, no you don't 04:05:50 @ask boily Do you keep a backup mapole in the channel when you aren't here? 04:05:50 Consider it noted. 04:07:08 * oerjan licks icing off his fingers 04:07:42 Can you have a hyperellipse (ntbcw a superellipse) where there are more than 2 focal points? 04:07:56 stahp 04:09:50 -!- Reece has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:09:50 Oh, the sum of the distances to the focal point is 2*R (R being max(r1, r2)) 04:10:01 izalove: I'm sorry : 04:10:02 :( 04:10:18 (This would be easier if we could use pretty math) 04:11:13 hppavilion[1]: For any shape there's often multiple useful ways to specify it 04:11:26 FreeFull: Well yes 04:11:34 FreeFull: This was the way relevant to what I was saying 04:12:33 Yeah, the "Take two points, an ellipse is the locus you get when the sum of distances to the points is equal to a constant" definition is one of the most common 04:12:43 You can also define an ellipse as a stretched circle 04:13:05 In which case you have a centre point, a minor radius, and a major radius 04:13:13 Yes 04:14:46 OH! I created a symbol for derivatives that made me happy today. You write a special derivative symbol, a number n below it (nth derivative; if you want the 1st derivative then n can be dropped), the variables it's with respect to separated by commas terminated with a colon (if it's just 'all the variables', you can drop this part), then the thing you're derivativing. It took me several hours to realize the special derivative symbol I 04:14:47 used was basically just the euro sign xD 04:16:13 (it only had one horizontal stroke though. It might have been something else, really, but I don't remember any other similar-looking symbols. It was intended to look like a capital ε- basically a larger ϵ, I suppose- but not just an E) 04:16:24 f(x) = x^2 f€_1(x) = 2x ?? 04:16:30 FreeFull: Yep, centrepoint is what I use for fonts 04:17:13 FreeFull: More like €_1 f(x), but the _1 could be dropped too because it's the default 04:17:23 (the colon part is for incomplete derivatives) 04:17:30 I wonder if four points on the circumference are enough to uniquely specify any ellipse 04:17:49 Three definitely aren't enough 04:18:00 5 are 04:18:01 FreeFull: It depends on whether any happen to be the same 04:18:09 izalove: 5 are enough for ANY conic section 04:18:13 yeah 04:18:19 Which is exactly what you meant... 04:18:24 can't go below that 04:18:25 For 5 I can think of arrangements that don't give a valid ellipse 04:18:37 izalove: No, you can uniquely specify any circle with 2 points 04:18:52 not if the points lie on the circumference 04:18:56 FreeFull: right, but you cannot expect less than 5, still 04:19:06 izalove: Ah, yes, forgot about that 04:19:11 You can uniquely determine a circle with 3 points on the circumference 04:19:17 But 3 on the circumference, probably 04:19:18 because ellipses are like an open subset of all conics 04:19:20 hppavilion[1]: by the same reasoning you can specify any ellipse with 3 points 04:19:28 You can uniquely specify any conic section with at MOST 5 points, and that's where it might not be an ellipse 04:19:31 izalove: How so? 04:19:43 how many points do you need to specify an eclipse? 04:19:46 foci + distance 04:20:10 shachaf: Earth, moon, sun, several vectors of speed, probably some mass. 04:20:25 Yeah, I specifically was thinking of points on the circumference 04:20:37 Hmm, let's consider the vertices of a square 04:20:43 Can we fit more than one ellipse to those? 04:20:50 In my head the 3 points on the circumference of a circle are arranged in an equilateral triangle; is this enough? 04:20:59 I think four points aren't enough 04:21:08 FreeFull: Yes, one is the other rotated 90 degrees 04:21:29 hppavilion[1]: 3 points are enough for a circumference 04:21:29 (which is equivalent to swapping major and minor ~arcana~ radii) 04:21:34 izalove: Yes 04:21:44 Which is what I said, I thought 04:21:52 The second time 04:21:54 they don't have to be an equilateral triangle 04:22:03 izalove: Well yes, but they happened to be internally 04:22:12 hppavilion[1]: if you allow choosing _special_ points on the circle, then obviously 2 are enough. 04:22:14 You could obviously move htem 04:22:20 oerjan: Yes, of course 04:22:54 If you allow the point to be anywhere, you can probably do it with 1 04:22:55 Somehow 04:23:12 I guess as |R^3? 04:23:15 (x, y, r) 04:23:53 Ah, the symbol looks more like Є 04:25:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:26:41 -!- Zoroaster has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:26:54 For a circle you just need the diameter 04:27:05 For an ellipse a diameter and a radius 04:27:55 Yes 04:28:28 FreeFull: But if you can use arbitrary points that may not even have significance to it, you can do it with a single point in 1D 04:29:04 That depends on if you're allowed to depend on the point's coordinates 04:29:10 You might not be given coordinates at all 04:29:11 FreeFull: Ah, yes 04:29:24 An ellipse centred at (x, y) with radius r (all are real numbers) can be represented by literally just lacing the bits if you have to 04:29:25 <\oren\> I started a new game as france. I created my own alliance with the czechoslovakia, yugoslavia, and romania. 04:29:50 \oren\: But not with Poland? 04:30:02 <\oren\> When Germany demanded the sudetenland, I responded by invading the rhineland 04:30:47 <\oren\> By the time hitler had decided to go around the maginot line through belgium I already took franfurt, koln and essen 04:31:28 <\oren\> I think I can probably win world war two by 1940 04:32:26 \oren\: Why don't you just start the game half a century earlier and kill baby Hitler? 04:32:28 Problem solved 04:32:41 <\oren\> the czechs just took vienna. get rekt hitler 04:32:50 (Sure, you still have to deal with WWI...) 04:34:07 <\oren\> oh and they took breslau in the north 04:34:30 <\oren\> it's 1938 only. germany hasn't done anything with poland yet 04:34:44 <\oren\> so poland won't join my faction 04:37:59 \oren\: Napoleon briefly recreated Poland as its own state back when Poland was partitioned between other countries 04:38:26 But when the napoleonic wars failed, Poland ended up getting partitioned again 04:39:34 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/GetRektHitler.PNG 04:40:48 So yeah, historically real Poland has had good ties with France 04:40:49 <\oren\> how's that for chease eating surrender monekys!?! 04:40:57 And horrible luck with Germany and Russia 04:41:39 <\oren\> poland isn't even in the war though. hitler hasn't had enough time because I invaded him instead of gving him the sudetenland 04:42:16 <\oren\> so poland is just chilling, and for some reason he invaded the baltics and annexed them 04:43:03 <\oren\> so on the side, poland curbstomped latvia and lithuania while I was preparing to invade germnay 04:44:22 Ok 04:44:29 What will you do about Russia? 04:45:37 <\oren\> no idea. hopefully I can get turkey or poland in my faction so I can have a wider front than just romania 04:46:15 <\oren\> if it's just romania, russia might crush me with sheer numbers of infantry 04:48:52 <\oren\> with a wide front, I can have my cavalry and jeeps run and surround enemy forces quicker than you can say une deux tres 04:49:30 ...Yep, 'murica is screwed 04:49:44 Imma start a new political party, I guess. 04:50:52 <\oren\> czech forces are untering dresden 04:51:20 <\oren\> french forces have reached the coast of the nroth sea 04:52:01 -!- Elronnd has left. 04:52:23 Gary Johnson's position on climate change (I swear, this is 1.0 perunit real): The earth is getting warmer and it's man-made. But the sun will explode in several billion years and destroy the planet anyway, and what's the difference between ending all life on earth in ~200 years vs. several billion? Really? 04:56:36 <\oren\> gary johnson also doesn't know where aleppo is, and can't name a foreign leader he likes 04:57:10 <\oren\> even trump can do both those things. admittedly he likes putin, but hey at least it's an answer 04:57:49 \oren\: Yeah 04:58:13 Being able to say 'Putin' better than not knowing about Putin 04:58:36 (AA 04:58:41 Whoops 04:59:15 <\oren\> wait, hitler made the molotov ribbentop pact NOW?!?! with french tanks in nuremberg? 04:59:32 <\oren\> if poland enters the war he's dead for sure 04:59:42 Admittedly, only about 0.001 perunit of Americans knew about Aleppo until that happened, but OTOH, 0.001 perunit of americans are RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT 04:59:57 \oren\: Has he started holocausting yet? 05:00:23 <\oren\> not sure. 05:01:21 <\oren\> they don't model that in the game so you don't feel as much an asshole if you play as hitler 05:01:50 \oren\: ...but that's probably the only reason I'd play as Hitler in the first place 05:01:59 Like, so I can choose who does and doesn't die 05:02:08 (Isn't the point of Hitler that he's an asshole?) 05:04:17 <\oren\> in itlay I'v taken milan and genoa now. 05:05:10 <\oren\> oh, and libya is now all mine 05:05:24 Protip: When siphoning someone else's internet, don't risk them putting a password on their wifi; set the admin password yourself 05:05:28 <\oren\> time to go wouth and liberate ethiopia 05:07:04 <\oren\> speakign of aleppo, france owned aleppo at the time of world war 2 05:07:18 <\oren\> along with all of syria 05:07:34 <\oren\> if they had kept it none of this bullshit would have happened 05:15:13 Trump elected as president. USA becomes Russia 2 05:17:32 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49833&oldid=49760 * Happa * (+289) /* Introductions */ 05:18:49 [wiki] [[User:Happa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49834 * Happa * (+110) Created page with "An esoteric language developer. Created: * [[Refunge]] (Some others will be added as I create pages for them)" 05:28:19 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:28:30 \oren\: As long as you're in Syria, could you destroy Aleppo? 05:32:29 -!- xkapastel has joined. 05:34:29 https://arin.ga/wugdyM/raw someone please compile this on their machine and tell me the results 05:34:58 gcc rot256.c; ./a.out < /dev/zero 2>/dev/null 05:35:32 takes 20s to run on a crappy laptop 05:37:17 Some more Magic: the Gathering cards I made up now is the cycle of five monocolor Elder Wizards: John Whistlet, Xlif Barpy, Margia Hazmaad, Zonak Masp, Garof Asengia. 05:39:02 If there were two sounds that were allophones in ALL known languages, would it even be reasonably possible to tell? 05:39:43 I don't know 05:40:46 [wiki] [[Refunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49835 * Happa * (+7537) First version of the page. 05:45:29 (New Rule: the world 'allophone' is henceforth pronounced [æl ɫoʊ foʊn], making it good for explaining what it is) 05:45:42 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49836&oldid=49778 * Happa * (+14) 05:47:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Refunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49837 * Hppavilion1 * (+277) Yæ 05:48:17 <^v> wana hear what you guys think 05:48:18 <^v> http://hastebin.com/raw/gicalepido 05:49:01 <^v> (assembly that compiles into brainfuck, designed to be generated from a higher level compiler) 05:49:29 <^v> in the sample code i show a working indexable string "type" 05:49:29 *claps* 05:50:18 <^v> it differentiates itself from existing compilers because it supports (relatively advanced) stack "multiplexing" 05:50:29 <^v> so multiple dynamically sized objects can co-exist 05:51:37 <^v> basically everything here can be implemented without hassle https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms 05:52:44 But can it monoplex? 05:52:51 <^v> hppavilion[1], yes 05:52:57 Cool 05:53:01 Can it nullplex? 05:53:13 <^v> yes 05:53:19 <^v> POP ^S 05:53:22 will it blend? 05:55:00 ^v: wait, what the b**** is nullplexing? 05:55:50 <^v> hppavilion[1], where the program pops the main stack which causes a singularity that destroys everything 05:55:59 Oh? 05:56:05 OK, what's n-plexing exactly? 05:56:18 <^v> (joke) 05:56:38 <^v> n-plexing would just be multiplexing i guess? 05:56:42 <^v> well 05:56:45 ^v: No 05:56:46 <^v> n includes 1 05:56:53 OK, it's where multiple signals are merged. Presumably, stack multiplexing is where a bunch of stacks are put together 05:57:54 ^v: multiplexing includes 1 or any other number; n-plexing is the specific case where you're plexing n signals 05:58:18 multiplexing is n-plexing for arbitrary n (or for a constrained but otherwise-arbitrary n) 05:58:21 <^v> so you can "push" a group of stacks ontop of another, these stacks are multiplexed together by multiplying the < and > in brainfuck code "seeked" to values on those stacks 05:58:36 <^v> and yes, you can push just 1 stack ontop of another 05:58:54 monoplexing is the degenerate case of multiplexing that's basically just having one signal, but in a way that implies it COULD be more than one 05:58:57 <^v> useless functionality wise 06:02:19 <^v> the magic happens because its all passive to your code, code originally designed to be used on a single stack system (Brainfuck_algorithms) written in this lang can use variables that exist on different stack levels seamlessly 06:04:33 <^v> you can copy paste for example a bf self-interpreter and it would just use the stack you put it on as if it were its own tape (assuming it doesn't seek backwards :s) 06:08:23 In math, there's a theorem called the Squeeze Theorem 06:08:36 Several other languages call it the Two Policemen and a Drunk theorem. 06:08:41 We're missing out. 06:16:53 <^v> bugs bugs bugs 06:16:57 <^v> i broke stacks somehow 06:22:39 <^v> okay they are fixed, because i hate myself i created 5 completely redundant stacks http://pastebin.com/raw/TqNGLkLC 06:22:47 <^v> code prints "Oii" as expected 06:23:17 <^v> theres no reason stackception + 1 shouldnt work 06:23:42 hppavilion[1]: In Polish it seems to be "theorem about three trains" 06:24:13 Huh, MLP:FiM in german is Freundschaft ist Magie. I'll try to find that... 06:24:37 hppavilion[1]: Oh, three sequences actually 06:24:39 Same word 06:24:57 FreeFull: Wat? "sequence" and "train" are the same? 06:25:10 (Wait, I guess the mathematical word "sequence" was probably taken from "train") 06:25:59 hppavilion[1]: Actually train is pociąg rather than just ciąg 06:26:08 So nevermind 06:26:26 "Theorem about three sequences" is a pretty boring name 06:26:38 I actually know so little about polish that my knowledge isn't just negative; it's negative AND imaginary. 06:27:07 (well, imaginary-split-imaginary) 06:27:26 hppavilion[1]: So, you've got fairly complex knowledge of Polish? =P 06:27:53 FreeFull: ...what's the joke here? Is it that polish is horrendously complicated? 06:28:01 (I need some polish remover...) 06:28:17 hppavilion[1]: No, just purely a joke about complex numbers 06:28:24 Oooooooh 06:28:27 Right, right 06:28:39 FreeFull: Are we allowed to combine complex and split-complex numbers? 06:28:50 Do you want to? 06:28:51 z = a+bi+cj+dji 06:28:54 Kind of 06:29:15 Ask a mathematician 06:29:22 (i^2 = -1, j^2 = 1, j nin ℝ) 06:29:27 hppavilion[1]: what do you mean with "find that"? 06:29:58 myname: pirate. 06:30:13 Because I don't think there's any way to legally obtain it here 06:30:38 hppavilion[1]: Mix in dual numbers for extra kick 06:30:47 FreeFull: Considering that. 06:31:01 hppavilion[1]: Dunno, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercomplex_number 06:31:18 FreeFull: When you have that many parts, you need so many coefficients that you almost use 'i' as a coefficient 06:31:27 (Even the DVDs are probably in a different region) 06:32:51 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:33:04 hppavilion[1]: Should be pretty easy to find on the internet 06:33:51 FreeFull: yes 06:33:52 a+bi+cj+dε+fij+giε+hjε+kijε 06:34:41 That's what we get for abusing the alphabet 06:36:07 Quaternions don't run into this issue, because ij=k, jk=i and ki = j 06:39:03 FreeFull: I don't understand how that works; what exactly are they? 06:39:40 hppavilion[1]: They're all square roots of -1 06:39:48 i^2 = j^2 = k^2 = ijk = -1 06:40:04 OK... 06:40:10 But DIFFERENT square roots? 06:40:12 Sure 06:40:15 Yes 06:40:22 Also, multiplication isn't commutative 06:40:29 ij = k, ji = -k 06:41:05 FreeFull: So they do 3D rotations, but what if I want 4D rotations? 06:41:23 Do I use the pentenions? 06:41:37 I don't think pentenions are a thing 06:41:42 Just use rotation matrices 06:42:06 (and if real is for 1D and complex describes 2D, but quaternions are for 3D... what are trinions?) 06:42:24 (And what's the pattern? nD is done with 2^(n-1)ions? 06:42:26 ) 06:45:41 hppavilion[1]: You don't need complex numbers for 2D rotations, a single real number will do 06:45:53 FreeFull: Wait, what? 06:46:15 Keeping in mind, all rotations are around the origin 06:46:22 I seem to remember that you rotate in 2D by using x+yz and multiplying various things 06:46:26 <^v> because i super hate myself http://pastebin.com/raw/0YAh76sg 06:46:55 <^v> bar1 bar2 bar3 are level 15 stacks :v 06:47:49 <^v> full sauce, i fixed some things http://pastebin.com/raw/0yu2GFpD 06:47:57 hppavilion[1]: Yes, there is a connection between complex multiplication and 2D rotations, but the only important thing in 2D rotations is the angle, and you can encode that in a single real number 06:47:57 -!- ^_^v has joined. 06:48:08 Well yes 06:49:35 Huh, apparently 'OK' translates into german 06:50:55 yeah 06:51:01 hppavilion[1]: Hm, apparently you can represent a 4D rotation using a pair of quaternions 06:51:20 FreeFull: So probably equivalent octonions 06:51:28 (or something similar) 06:51:43 Thus, my conjecture remains valid 06:51:57 -!- ^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 06:53:49 FreeFull: Let us have a moment of silence for the poor M-theorists, who have to use millivigintiquaternions 06:54:14 (wait, a moment of silence on #esoteric is just #esoteric...) 06:54:20 -!- xihinja has joined. 06:54:46 hppavilion[1]: I don't think octionions are connected directly to rotations in R^n for some n 06:55:33 hppavilion[1]: One thing that connects real numbers, complex numbers, quaternions and octonions together is the Cayley-Dickson construction 06:56:04 FreeFull: Pair of quaternions. Quaternions have 4 parts, so a pair has 8. I hypothesize that you could equivalently use some 8-dimensional hypercomplex (most likely standard octonions) with identical effect 06:57:13 the point about octonions is them having 8 parts 06:57:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cayley%E2%80%93Dickson_construction 06:57:28 a pair of quaternions does not 06:57:46 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_algebra contains a link that redirects to itself. 06:59:30 hppavilion[1]: Which one? 06:59:41 'alternative' 07:00:09 Oh, first sentence 07:00:32 You could make a comment about it on the talk page or something 07:01:12 but it's funny 07:04:30 Yeah 07:04:38 'OK, seriously bro, this is the page about it' 07:06:24 What's really fun is that some operators can be self-distributive: a⁂(b⁂c) = (a⁂b)⁂(a⁂c) 07:19:08 -!- xihinja has left ("Leaving"). 07:36:29 FreeFull: Do you remember @? 07:36:46 (It really needs a better name...) 07:38:42 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 07:57:44 that thing where you never fully redefined || correctly? 08:10:08 myname: Yeah, that thing 08:12:38 (-1)^2 = @, @ != 1, |x| = sqrt(sum([cof(n)^2 for n in components(x))), where components(x) returns the parts as a list (so components (a+bi) = [a, bi]) and cof(n) is just the coefficient of a number- cof(ki) = k 08:13:13 New keyboard: latin-greek; normal ASCII, BUT it can also type greek letters on the altgr. Good for mathing. 08:13:22 s/ASCII/QWERTY/ 08:14:56 Hm, supposedly, the reason we use QWERTY is that when we used ABCDEF, keys that were used frequently were close by and would be struck in too rapid succession, leading to mechanical errors. But Germany uses QWERTZ; did Germans use German engineering to overcome the mechanics? 08:15:24 hppavilion[1], I presume German has different letter combination frequencies to English 08:15:29 French uses AZERTY 08:15:38 Ah, yes, that too 08:17:14 qwertz doesn't make much sense imho 08:17:29 since tz and zu are pretty common 08:17:48 but neither are ty or yu nor za/zsg... 08:19:57 Well, in English, re is reasonably common 08:21:29 well, yeah, but i don't get why germans switched y and z in particular 08:22:28 combinations with any vowel are reasonably common 08:22:43 but they have to be somewhere 08:22:58 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:23:36 are there third-party layouts for other languages? 08:23:47 i know dvorak for english and neo for german 08:23:56 but i am not aware of anything else 08:24:16 I'm replaciŋ ðe symbol for esh in ðe Eŋgliʃ Reformed Alphabet from ʃ to σ 08:24:27 Because capital esh is Ʃ 08:24:35 notable mentions for neo: arrow keys are on the home row 08:24:41 which is kinda awesome 08:24:51 but on the other hand, it completely breals hjkl 08:27:38 myname: My left and up arrow keys don't work for no apparent reason 08:38:00 https://youtu.be/46ehrFk-gLk?t=37s 08:38:20 "FACT: The linguist mafia will run you over with a bus if you break your vow of descriptivism" 08:45:35 ...wtf 08:45:45 Apparently blond and blonde are different words that carry gender 08:46:10 yeah 08:47:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:49:28 hppavilion[1], it's what we get for stealing everything from the French 08:49:45 Taneb: I hæt grammatical gender... 08:49:56 Even learning German, I'm kind of tempted to reject it as part of ðe language 08:50:17 If I just call everything neuter (Das), people will probably get it and just get used to it 08:54:49 and will think of you as a weirdo and will probably try staying away from you 08:59:07 -!- carado has joined. 09:00:21 myname: Yes, but you guys are GERMANS 09:00:43 That basically describes what most Americans think of EVERY german 09:00:54 (Or Canadian, or Brit, or pretty much anybody, honestly) 09:01:00 (Wow, we're really pretty isolationist) 09:01:05 Anyway 09:01:35 hppavilion[1]: donjt worry the whole world thinks the same about americans 09:01:52 Fair enough 09:02:09 ...God. I hate prescriptivism, but I do have to correct people when they use the wrong "the'ir" and "your'e". How do I reconcile this contradiction? 09:02:17 murrica 09:09:29 @pl \f -> p (f x) 09:09:29 p . ($ x) 09:32:05 ? octoberlord 09:32:12 ? oerjan 09:32:17 octoberlord? ¯$$°​_o)/¯ 09:32:18 Your mysterious weevil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 09:32:28 ? password 09:32:30 The password of the month is Bierstubë. 09:32:42 ouch. 10:38:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:21 Theorem: There are countably many possible gods (not in the sense of "exists" but in the sense of "yeah, I guess you could make that a religion or something") 11:00:03 Proof: Each god can described by a finite series of symbols taken from a finite alphabet (in fact, they can be described by several- probably countably many- of these). Sure, most combinations are meaningless, but we'll just ignore those. 11:03:16 The gods can be trivially mapped surjectively to the natural numbers by taking a holy book describing them, ordering the alphabet (A), and- starting with n=1- for each symbol indexed in A by c, multiplying n by c*|A|^k for each symbol in the book at index k (basically, I'm just using base-whatever) 11:03:24 Q.E.D. 11:07:14 -!- ^_^v has joined. 11:08:52 (Hm, I want to see calligraphic mathematics...) 11:10:12 The general idea of your proof is obvious to anyone who knows enough to understand it. 11:10:23 Except for the first sentence, which is an unfounded assumption. 11:10:56 -!- Reece has joined. 11:18:35 What branch of Philosophy covers humor? The best I can think of is Aesthetics, but I wouldn't exactly call a Priest and a Rabbi walking into a bar 'beautiful' 11:28:47 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:36:15 why would you put that in philosophy in the first place? 11:43:04 did you ever read snow crash? 11:44:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:48:23 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:54:28 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:54:51 -!- ^v has joined. 11:57:32 -!- ^_^v has joined. 12:11:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 12:11:19 Factorial is to subfactorial as triangle numbers are to what? 12:11:28 subtriangles 12:12:34 hppavilion[1]: go read snow crash 12:12:48 myname: ...why? 12:12:59 izalove: Yes, but... what do subtriangles even describe? 12:13:05 it's one of the basic books for computer scientists 12:13:09 Ah 12:13:17 together with douglas adams trilogy 12:13:35 Trilogy? I seem to remember there being 5, plus the salmon of doubt 12:13:40 Of which I own all of them 12:13:48 also called the trilogy in 5 parts 12:13:55 Oh, sure, that works 12:14:18 x triangltorial is the sum of all integers from 0 to x, which is equal to x(x-1)/2 12:14:22 in german it's often called "vierteilige trilogie in 5 bänden" 12:14:45 so, 4 parts of a trilogy in 5 books 12:15:30 In English there's the "fifth book in the increasingly inaccurately named Hitchhikers Trilogy" 12:16:03 Ah 12:17:10 And apparently also "A trilogy in four parts". 12:17:22 A formula exists that subfact(x) = fact(x) * summ(0, x, lambda n: (-1)^n/fact(n)) 12:17:52 Would subgamma (generalized subfactorial the same way gamma is generalized factorial) be the same, but s/fact/gamma/? 12:19:41 you're still not reading snow crash 12:20:21 myname: Not yet 12:20:30 Unless it's available for free online, no 12:20:41 It's 11:20. I'm not going to go buy a book. 12:20:49 well, depends on where you look for it 12:20:55 (11:20 UTC; I'm @ UTC-9) 12:20:57 Don't give hppavilion[1] interesting things to read; I might have to unignore him... 12:21:05 Wait, what? 12:21:23 Is int-e ignoring me? 12:21:26 int-e: lol 12:21:42 but you seem to know that book 12:21:50 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 12:21:50 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to nothppavilion. 12:22:18 int-e: mwahahahaha 12:22:54 But no, really, am I (a) on ignore and (b) why and (c) your client ignores hostnames, doesn't it? 12:23:33 So as I was saying 12:23:36 to be fair, you spam a lot 12:23:51 myname: Not spam; incoherently babble 12:24:00 also, you make it intentionally harder to communicate with you 12:24:06 Totally different, much more annoying 12:24:08 myname: When? 12:25:07 like when yountry to make your own alphabet 12:25:33 myname: I don't use ERA in #esoteric at the request of people whose clients don't like unicode 12:26:00 you did like in the last 24 hours at least 12:26:01 I use it literally everywhere else though, and an eth occasionally manages to slip out 12:27:11 i wonder why people don't hate you elsewhere 12:27:18 Because eths are literally everywhere when writing; "the", "this", "that", "there", "they", "them", etc. 12:27:21 myname: I've not read Snow Crash, I believe. 12:27:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:27:23 Who says they don't? 12:27:38 int-e: do it 12:28:16 e = summ(0, inf, λ n -> 1/n!) 12:28:24 s/n!/fact(n)/ 12:29:20 u = summ(0, inf, λ n -> 1/subfact(n), λ n -> n ≠ 1) 12:29:39 (I wonder if the sum of reciprocal triangle numbers is significant) 12:31:28 actually I probably have read it, but I remember very little about it. 12:33:12 Maybe all the memes taken over by Daniel Suarez' Daemon series (there's some thematic overlap). 12:34:00 ...the limit of the reciprocal triangular sum is 2 12:34:13 -!- nothppavilion has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:36:22 And then there's Gibson (Neuromancer) 12:44:16 [wiki] [[MarioLANG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49838&oldid=39253 * Martin Ender * (+39) 12:44:44 Hm, ((positive) integer) powers are closely related to n-cubes 12:45:14 I want the same, but for n-tetrahedrons 12:45:57 (mainly so, while you can say "x squared" for x to the power 2, you can say "x triangled" for x to the whatever-this-is 2 12:47:06 Huh, that felt weird. Python's pip thing used a progress bar that went all ▏ ▎ ▍ ▌ ▋ ▊ ▉ █ smoothly. 12:48:07 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:54:11 [wiki] [[Talk:Swordfish]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49839 * Martin Ender * (+223) Created page with "This is tagged as Implemented, but I can't seem to be able to find an implementation. Is an interpreter available somewhere? --~~~~" 12:55:27 -!- ^_^v has joined. 12:56:42 -!- ^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 12:58:14 The 8th 5-tetrahedral number is 792. 12:58:15 I am god 13:00:40 you are not 13:01:13 myname: shhhhhh 13:01:21 This is the feeling you get when you use computers 13:08:08 The Golden Triangle Number is 2.118033988749895 13:08:17 (no relation to the golden triangle) 13:08:20 (probably) 13:10:53 I would make a great hippie... 13:26:36 indeed 13:31:51 -!- boily has joined. 13:35:53 wisdom 13:36:01 bfjoust//bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. 13:42:10 @massages-loud 13:42:11 hppavilion[1] asked 9h 36m 20s ago: Do you keep a backup mapole in the channel when you aren't here? 13:42:42 hppavellon[1]! no, but that's a good idea! 13:42:49 Yay! 13:42:58 to whom shall I entrust my trusty mapole? 13:43:00 Put it over by the hat rack. 13:43:08 Also, we need a hat rack. 13:43:25 Can mapoles be used as hat racks? 13:43:36 you can do anything with a mapole. 13:43:58 I wish https://xkcd.com/136/ was real... I would read that paper. 13:45:54 According to wikipedia: "A person who performs cunnilingus may be referred to as a cunnilinguist." 13:46:06 Is there a field called cunnilinguistics? 13:47:58 cunniproto-indo-european 13:48:09 would that imply making sounds while you're performing? 13:50:41 No? 13:59:16 that quote is genius 14:02:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:05:22 -!- ^_^v has joined. 14:14:27 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:25:43 > 3 / 5 + pi / (7 - pi) 14:25:45 1.4142200580539208 14:27:00 but why? 14:32:11 I have no fungotting idea. 14:32:12 boily: e333 you can't manage that, the next' act too much like come from' and/ or modify this document under the gnu autoconf ( configure); its autoconf source code), and one of them may be a clue that you don't put it? 14:34:52 boily: package resent yesterday 14:34:58 i have tracking 14:40:54 you may approximate pi by 3+(3/5+pi/(7-pi))/10 14:45:48 le/rn amphiboily/Franglish grammatical hambiguity, rewarded with a mapole 14:45:51 Learned «amphiboily» 14:49:11 -!- Reece has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 14:50:02 -!- Reece has joined. 14:51:27 Y'avait a girl from Gatineau deux nuits que j'était en vacation. Probablement le code switch le plus mind bending que j'ai jamais entendu. 14:52:52 En plus qu'elle teachait l'anglais in Korea, et qu'elle translatait du coréen en cantonese au monde à l'auberge. 15:24:25 -!- ^_^v has joined. 15:30:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:26:00 -!- incog has joined. 16:29:22 [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49840&oldid=49028 * Conor O'Brien * (+27) /* Languages I have made */ 16:55:44 -!- keemyb has quit (Excess Flood). 16:58:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OBVERSE CHICKEN). 17:46:37 @tell hppavilion[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_algebra contains a link that redirects to itself. <-- someone back in 2014 did a faulty merge, presumably because they didn't understand that "algebra" has several meanings. i fixed it. 17:46:37 hppavilion[1] lets you know: haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaands 17:46:37 Consider it noted. 17:47:06 int-e: any chance of removing that stupid feature 17:48:36 int-e: (the lambdabot lines contain a nick you're ignoring, in case you're confused) 17:50:46 @tell hppavilion[1] also if you want any more @tells, remove that stupid response twh 17:50:46 hppavilion[1] lets you know: haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaands 17:50:46 Consider it noted. 18:10:08 ? amphiboily 18:10:13 Franglish grammatical hambiguity, rewarded with a mapole 18:10:38 slwd amphiboily//s/F/Amphiboily is F/ 18:10:39 wisdom/amphiboily//Amphiboily is Franglish grammatical hambiguity, rewarded with a mapole 18:11:07 slwd amphiboily//s//./ 18:11:10 wisdom/amphiboily//Amphiboily is Franglish grammatical hambiguity, rewarded with a mapole. 18:22:29 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:25:19 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:27:35 oerjan: probably won't remove it; it's actually working as intended: it allows people to let other people know that they don't want @tell messages 18:28:18 (I forgot who requested it though, and I wouldn't go out of my way to advertise the feature) 18:29:12 Yay, I finally got a Nikoli competition puzzle right in the first attempt. I failed to do that for the two previous ones... 18:29:30 congrats -> 18:29:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:44:58 [wiki] [[RubE On Conveyor Belts]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49841&oldid=44824 * Martin Ender * (+40) 18:45:06 I think goto command ought to be added into JavaScript and a few others of the good feature from C, which also has macro preprocessor and setjmp/longjmp. Although, in JavaScript it could be made a better way than the C way. 18:46:04 With sufficiently general macros, call/cc could be implemented in strict mode. 18:47:03 how much of the JavaScript state would be "inside" the continuation, and how much would be global? 18:49:12 Local variables might be inside, if it is declared inside of a continuation function, otherwise it isn't. 18:49:33 You would have to declare individual functions as continuation functions if it were to be implemented entirely with macros. 18:50:13 [wiki] [[Minkolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49842&oldid=44756 * Martin Ender * (+66) 18:50:31 (But you could also make some local variables "outside" of the continuation if you wanted to, as well; depending how it is implemented) 19:14:19 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:16:00 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:18:16 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 19:19:32 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:20:14 -!- wob_jonas has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented seven times | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf". 19:21:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:22:48 -!- heroux has joined. 19:26:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:22 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:42:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:54:44 how would you think a multiplayer mode for a df like should work? all i can figure out is something like a time terminated 1vs1 or the like 19:56:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:13:46 -!- augur has joined. 20:16:03 [wiki] [[Cubix]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49843 * ETHproductions * (+4580) Created page with "'''Cubix''' is a stack-based 2-dimensional language where the code is wrapped around a cube. == Overview == Cubix was inspired by [[Labyrinth]] and [[Hexagony]], both stack-..." 20:21:07 [wiki] [[User:ETHproductions]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49844 * ETHproductions * (+343) Added user page for ETHproductions 20:22:17 [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49845&oldid=49836 * ETHproductions * (+12) Added Cubix to language list 20:32:34 -!- Akaibu has joined. 20:33:26 Apparently tail calls are not yet implemented in Node.js 20:36:00 "return f();" is an error? 20:37:51 who was it who was asking about the cost of finding the set of strings that are within a certain levdnshtein distance? 20:37:55 No, it is valid, but it is not implemented as a tail call. 20:38:17 The program will do the correct thing but it is not as efficient as it should be. 20:38:51 (And in some cases may result in a stack overflow if tail calls are not implemented.) 20:38:54 this algorithm has a much faster average case: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-programming-algorithm-that-you-have-ever-created/answer/Leo-Polovets?srid=i3Gd&share=82807028 20:56:13 -!- Reece has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 20:56:50 -!- Reece has joined. 21:06:28 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:07:01 -!- ent0nces has joined. 21:10:58 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:11:42 -!- ent0nces has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:12:41 -!- ent0nces has joined. 21:15:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:19:13 hellais523 21:19:21 hi 21:19:44 whats your ale of choice 21:22:22 I don't drink alcohol; I don't like the taste 21:22:31 * APic too. 21:22:44 (I realised this after trying both alcoholic and non-alcoholic wine and preferring the non-alcoholic wine) 21:24:08 I'm not sure if that's a valid comparison, I'm sure there could be other differences between the wines in question. 21:24:57 True. 21:29:22 Is non-alcoholic wine grape juice? 21:29:35 I suppose not. 21:30:13 I should try non-alcoholic wine. 21:30:23 True. 21:32:51 no, the alcohol is removed after fermentation... in particular most of the sugar will still be gone 21:34:10 http://winefolly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/non-alcoholic-wine-reverse-osmosis.png looks plausible 21:37:18 I think they say "goto" is not a reserved word in JavaScript anymore and therefore you can't add a goto statement, but I think it is not a problem as long as it doesn't accept a computed goto and there is no line break between the word "goto" and the name of the label to go to. If it is a problem though, you could use the keyword "->" instead perhaps. 21:44:00 -!- ent0nces has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:44:40 thats too bad 21:44:53 wine != ale 21:46:55 True. 21:52:32 -!- jeffl35 has changed nick to GNU\jeffl35. 21:56:25 -!- GNU\jeffl35 has changed nick to jeffl35. 21:58:00 I have the idea about making macros in JavaScript, which would involve some new kind of syntax: \{ ... } executes statements in a macro context, \( ... ) executes an expression in a macro context (the value of the expression is expected to be either a string or a AST object), (| ... |) makes a expression AST object, {| ... |} makes a statement AST object. Do you like this? 22:03:16 (It is somewhat like Template Haskell.) 22:14:01 * quintopia wonders if APic says more than one word at a time 22:14:13 No Idea. 22:14:36 wow. three whole syllables 22:14:45 its a pb 22:15:06 Playmate? 22:15:47 personal best 22:16:45 Okay. 22:19:19 what do? 22:21:21 ? APic 22:21:29 APic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:22:51 i pog5rammed a pic once 22:22:59 programmed 22:23:04 I'm thinking "a picture", but it must be wrong: A picture says more than a thousand words. 22:23:42 HackEgo: 🙌 22:23:43 i was thinking programmable integrated circuit 22:23:57 or whatever PIC stands for 22:24:05 quintopia: APIC = advanced programmable interrupt controller 22:24:42 programmable interface controller 22:24:54 or 22:24:57 uh 22:25:00 Thank You. 22:25:03 pesky interrupting cohort. 22:25:07 *shrug* 22:25:13 peripheral interface controller 22:25:19 actually 22:25:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIC_microcontroller 22:25:31 people can't memorize computer industry acronyms 22:25:34 Good old Times. ☺ 22:25:49 int-e: True. 22:25:52 39 22:26:20 more emoji pls 22:26:37 APic: quite old joke :) 22:26:41 int-e: because there are so many of them and with contradictory expansions. 22:27:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:27:18 int-e i didnt notice the pcmcia until you said ir was a joke 22:27:30 (what was it, PC memory card industry association?) 22:27:31 pcmica 22:27:46 pmiaca 22:27:54 campia 22:27:55 no, international. close though. 22:27:57 thats it 22:28:24 pcpcpcpca 22:28:52 I am making program to save JavaScript objects into a file and then to be able to load them from a file. 22:29:10 -!- ent0nces has joined. 22:29:14 why do you find json insufficient? 22:29:41 JSON can work for some things. 22:30:01 and you can convert anything into those some things 22:30:03 But, JSON cannot store all JavaScript values; for example it cannot store multiple references to the same object. 22:30:17 It is also inefficient when using ArrayBuffers. 22:30:40 really 22:30:53 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:31:12 what are your plans for security 22:31:42 The program I am making uses a binary file format rather than text, so names of keys do not need to be repeated. Also it can contain references to objects and symbols from outside. 22:32:35 If you want security you can omit the external types you don't want. Note that functions cannot be serialized in this format, anyways. So there are still some limitations; but it can encode a lot more than JSON. 22:34:38 zzo38: encycle.js or some such by Crockford iirc has ibid refs for internal references in object graphs serialized to JSON 22:35:16 O, OK, but I am making my own now anyways. I wrote half of it already. 22:36:49 (Also, my program is not pure JavaScript and requires Node.js) 22:37:02 zzo38: external types? are those like the module and class names in pickling in python? 22:37:40 + 22:38:07 I don't know about pickling. External type in my program is what you can associate an object with a function, and when it tries to serialize an object with that prototype it will emit a header and then call the named function in order to do so. 22:38:35 So in that way you can serialize objects that have internal slots. 22:39:16 zzo38: oh so like an unevaler in http://wiki.erights.org/wiki/Safe_Serialization_Under_Mutual_Suspicion then? 22:39:37 (Or, if you have some global variable in your program which needs to keep track of all objects of a specified type, for some reason.) 22:39:48 zzo38: what is in this header? the name of the function? 22:40:09 (And a further use of this is to encode the object more efficiently.) 22:40:38 Zarutian: No; it is a number that identifies the function. You must define the same external objects/symbols and external types for writing as you do for reading. 22:42:19 zzo38: I see, so you are stepping around the 'run this arbritrary chosen (by name) function to deserialize this object' by using that num2extobjtype scheme 22:42:37 Yes. 22:42:42 zzo38: which means that one can implement graph exits in your format easily 22:45:23 (for the cases where you want a serialize an object graph where some objects are pointing to unserializable objects whose replacements will exists at deserialization time.) 22:45:29 (Also, the implementation of this serializer does not even know the names of any functions; it only associates each of the objects defined as an external type with a number and a function. It can then read it either by number or by object as the key. Storing a number also will make the file smaller than storing the name of the function anyways, and the function might not even have a name; nor does it necessarily have access to the correct context e 22:45:41 Zarutian: Yes, you can do that. 22:46:38 zzo38: got any documentation on this format yet? 22:47:31 Not published; I only have it hand-written in a book. I will publish on computer once this program is published, though. 22:48:03 -!- ent0nces has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:49:45 zzo38: got a smartphone handy with a camera? I am rather curious how this format looks 22:50:17 I haven't any; sorry. 22:51:49 its okay 22:52:04 everyone knows you finish what you start 22:52:05 You can wait until it is published and then you can read it. 22:53:03 quintopia: why do you think I am asking for pictures, eh? 22:53:34 cuz ur rude? 22:54:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:55:24 quintopia: that too. 23:02:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 23:03:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:14:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:17:43 quintopia: so, I am asking you this: putting obsticales such as ASLR and others of the same kind is increasing computer security in your eyes? 23:18:32 quintopia: a rude probing question but should be (thought) provoking, no? 23:18:53 ASLR meaning what? 23:19:47 Address Space Layout Randomization 23:20:10 OK 23:20:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:21:55 I think it is just complicating stuff, and that other methods can be used for memory protection. 23:22:48 An option to randomize addresses for a compiled program in a compiler can help with finding errors though. 23:24:07 it is an inaffective bandaid on the festering fleshwound that is due to idotic choices made way way back in the day. 23:24:44 zzo38: why does randomizing addresses for a compiled progam held with finding errors? 23:24:59 s/held/help/ 23:26:18 To see if something incorrectly accesses a wrong address by using invalid array indexing or whatever (although there are other ways to do this too, but these other ways might cause the program to run more slowly). However, such option should be used only during testing. 23:26:20 btw next level in 'fuzzing' is probably something like adaptive markov-chain-generated fuzzing. 23:27:49 (eliminate those fuzzes that are caught early by the program until you basically are banging against the edge cases) 23:27:57 I think the "Future Systems" 128-bit processor might be capable of detecting invalid pointers though. 23:28:39 zzo38: not so much future as being an sparse capability system in disguise, I would think. 23:38:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:38:47 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:40:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:43:26 Analogy clause of the day: minority:majority::?:plurality 23:43:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:46:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:49:42 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Everchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented seven times | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 23:50:21 -!- izalove has set topic: The Neverchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented seven times | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 23:51:22 helloerjan 23:51:48 Zarutian: i dont know 23:52:15 i hope that " wasn't supposed to be there. 23:52:27 quintophia 23:53:24 do you know any good site for downloading anime subs? 23:53:26 only the subs 23:53:30 i have the anime 23:53:49 @massages-screamed 23:53:49 Unknown command, try @list 23:53:54 @messages-proud 23:53:54 oerjan said 6h 7m 17s ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_algebra contains a link that redirects to itself. <-- someone back in 2014 did a faulty merge, presumably because 23:53:54 they didn't understand that "algebra" has several meanings. i fixed it. 23:53:54 oerjan said 6h 3m 7s ago: also if you want any more @tells, remove that stupid response twh 23:54:21 @clear-auto-reply 23:54:21 Auto-reply message cleared. 23:54:27 thank you. 23:54:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The Neverchanging Topic | This counter has been incremented sevence | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 23:58:02 huh "count" and "compute" are cognates. 23:58:12 oerjan: ...what's cognate? 23:58:28 @wn cognate 23:58:29 ...huh 23:58:30 *** "cognate" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 23:58:30 cognate 23:58:30 adj 1: related in nature; "connate qualities" [syn: {connate}, 23:58:30 {cognate}] 23:58:30 2: having the same ancestral language; "cognate languages" 23:58:32 [8 @more lines] 23:58:38 Common etymological origin 23:58:40 ...cool? 2016-10-02: 00:00:13 @more 00:00:13 3: related by blood [syn: {akin(p)}, {blood-related}, {cognate}, 00:00:13 {consanguine}, {consanguineous}, {consanguineal}, {kin(p)}] 00:00:13 n 1: one related by blood or origin; especially on sharing an 00:00:13 ancestor with another [syn: {blood relation}, {blood 00:00:13 relative}, {cognate}, {sib}] 00:00:15 [3 @more lines] 00:00:18 @more 00:00:18 2: a word is cognate with another if both derive from the same 00:00:19 word in an ancestral language [syn: {cognate}, {cognate 00:00:21 word}] 00:01:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:02:48 wb ais523 00:07:17 @moar 00:07:17 ais523: his1315 00:07:17 Maybe you meant: more metar 00:08:17 @le/rn moar/more 00:08:17 https://wiki.haskell.org/Learning_Haskell 00:08:22 ...wait. 00:08:50 ? weather 00:08:52 lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK 00:08:56 CYUL 012300Z 13011KT 15SM BKN064 BKN110 OVC240 15/11 A3021 RMK SC5AC2CI1 SLP231 \ ENVA 012250Z 29007KT 8000 -RADZ FEW016 BKN029 07/05 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 29007KT \ ESSB 012250Z AUTO 00000KT 9999 00:08:56 NCD 05/05 Q1011 \ KOAK 012253Z 28016KT 10SM FEW012 21/11 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP180 T02110111 00:12:36 why isnt KATL on the list 00:15:22 i just came to the conclusion that watching anime in 1080p is better than watching it in crappy quality 00:15:26 it took a while 00:21:09 -!- augur has joined. 00:25:01 -!- Caesura has joined. 00:27:06 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:32:17 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:45:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:52:05 hppavilion[1]: minority:majoity::singularity:plurality 00:54:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Too tired). 01:17:36 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 01:36:22 I had idea about a new selection for use with X called MEDIA_PLAYER and it is intended that a program that plays music or something else might own it (the user should be allowed to change whether or not they do, though; in case they are running more than one). Many (but not all) of the standard selection targets of ICCCM can be used with it, although additional targets can be defined to tell it to play, pause, rewind, next track, eject, etc. 01:42:13 zzo38: I don't understand what you said. But that's probably fine. 01:42:27 It's late in the night, I wouldn't understand it even if it made sense. 01:42:34 fungot, can you jump in? 01:42:34 wob_jonas: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions all versions no all versions all versions 01:43:32 quote TIMES 01:43:42 33) [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective \ 59) i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program \ 109) CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand h 01:43:50 quote INVISIBLE TIMES 01:43:52 997) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 01:44:07 May you live in CIRCLED TIMES. 01:50:26 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:53:25 WATCH and UNWATCH targets could also be implemented in case a program is being used which will notify using Twitter or other internet services what music the user is listening to, or if the status bar will display the currently playing music. 01:54:38 There are many other things that can be done with it too. 01:55:33 zzo38: Do you know how to tell whether d^2x = 0? 01:56:21 shachaf: No (but I didn't think about it now) 01:56:47 When did you think about it? 01:57:06 I don't remember 02:07:23 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:10:20 One way that was used to implement private properties in JavaScript is to make them local variables of the constructor function (and define the methods that use them in the constructor instead of the prototype), and that still can be used. But now there is also the new way which is by using WeakMap; in this way the property can even belong to a different module than who created the object. You can also create anonymous public properties of objects. 02:11:23 I am not sure how useful anonymous public properties are, but it is a possibility. Maybe you know about the uses of such? 02:21:26 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYOtZvwNCsc 02:35:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:38:34 How often have you seen "throw" in JavaScript (or possibly, other programming languages too) used for something other than in case of errors? 02:58:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:03:56 <\oren\> zzo38: I have seen it used as a multi-loop break 03:06:54 Yes, that is one thing; I have used it as a multi recursive function break (for searching in a tree structure). How common is it though? 03:07:09 -!- incog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:16:48 -!- Reece has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:21:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:07 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:38:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:41:10 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:44:22 -!- centrinia has joined. 03:51:46 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:12:17 -!- ^_^v has joined. 04:18:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:19:09 Question: Would it be incorrect to refer to the British liberal party as "Labor" in the US? 04:19:17 (Answer: Probably yes) 04:25:53 what do you mean by "liberal" here? 04:25:54 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Mazda3-pi.jpg 04:26:22 are you talking about the current opposition party Labour? the Liberal Democrats, who have Liberal in their name? parties generically on the left wing, and if so compared to which country? 04:26:45 all our even remotely major parties are left wing compared to the US centre, except possibly UKIP 04:35:37 "This house has 2.5 baths (house has 5 rooms with a toilet and sink))" 04:37:09 -!- Menphis has joined. 04:42:44 -!- Menphis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:03:12 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:05:29 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:11:09 Cale: What would you say the individual entries in a matrix represent? 05:24:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:26:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:05:19 In what matrix? 06:05:37 A matrix representing a linear transformation : R^n -> R^m 06:11:10 shachaf: Okay, so first of all, the columns of the matrix tell you where each of the basis vectors get sent 06:11:34 (the basis vectors of the domain of course) 06:11:42 and each column tells you the coefficients with respect to the basis of the codomain 06:11:59 What I would have said was that, for T : U -> V, you choose a basis for U and V. Then you look at Tu for each u in u, and decompose it in terms of V. 06:12:12 yeah 06:12:14 (A linear combination of vectors in V.) 06:12:29 for each u in the basis for U 06:12:37 Er, yes. 06:12:54 and each such decomposition gives a column 06:12:58 And since every vector in U is a linear combination of the vectors in the basis for U, that tells you how T transforms every vector. 06:13:02 yep 06:13:44 So an individual entry is one V-basis-projection of one U-basis-vector under T. 06:13:48 Or something like that. 06:14:26 Anyway the other day someone was saying that the individual entries actually represent linear maps : F -> F, not elements of F. 06:14:50 heh, well, it's possible to look at it like that 06:15:00 If you have T : U -> V where U and V are finite-dimensional vector spaces over F, then you have U = F+F+...+F, V = FxFx...xF 06:15:44 And since Hom(A+B, CxD) is in natural isomorphism with Hom(A, C)xHom(A, D)xHom(B, C)xHom(B, D), those are the individual entries in the matrix. 06:15:48 Yeah, you can look at it as a block matrix made up of 1x1 blocks :P 06:16:04 Right, so I should understand block matrices better probably. 06:17:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:17:19 For example maybe you'd expect det([A B][C D]) to be det(A)det(D) - det(B)det(C), but that sort of thing doesn't work. 06:17:28 One day I invented "matrix accounting" 06:17:45 @tell ais523 Oh, I meant Labour 06:17:45 Consider it noted. 06:19:23 Cale: Anyway, is it a choice of bases for U and V, or for U* and V? 06:19:56 Given that T is contravariant in U. 06:20:04 Which is quite a different use of matrix mathematics although involving much of the same mathematics involved including such things as orthogonal vectors and homogeneous coordinates and so on. 06:20:18 You can presumably say that T behaves the same as U* ⊗ V? 06:20:33 zzo38: I thought it was just a typical use. 06:21:47 shachaf: Yeah, it's really V ⊗ U* 06:22:13 But maybe it doesn't matter whether you choose a basis for U or U*, since if you have a basis you can go back and forth? 06:22:15 (if you put the U* on that side, it'll make things nice when you write the formula for application) 06:22:25 yeah, in finite dimensions 06:23:02 shachaf: The mathematics are same but it is a different use than geometry or physics; it is now for accounting (I invented it sort of by accident while trying to invent something else, because I had nothing else to do in school). 06:24:03 Formula for application? 06:28:23 I don't know what is "formula for application" either 06:34:03 shachaf: Well, when you write the linear transformation as a sum of pure tensor products 06:38:16 If {b_1,...,b_n} is a basis of U and {f_1,...,f_n} is the corresponding basis for U*, and {c_1,...,c_m} is a basis for V, then you might write an arbitrary linear transformation T as sum over i, j of a_ij c_i ⊗ f_j 06:42:21 and then (sum over i,j of a_ij c_i ⊗ f_j)*(sum over k of u_k b_k) = sum over i,j,k of a_ij c_i u_k f_j(b_k), and f_j(b_k) is 0 whenever j /= k, so we get sum over i,j of a_ij u_j c_i 06:42:40 anyway, it's just nice somehow that the linear functional bumps up against the vector it's getting applied to :) 06:45:06 I guess that sometimes people write some of those subscripts as superscripts? 06:51:23 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:03:25 -!- ent0nces has joined. 07:19:24 -!- ent0nces_ has joined. 07:21:03 -!- ent0nces has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:21:23 -!- ent0nces_ has quit (Client Quit). 07:54:42 -!- carado has joined. 08:05:28 -!- ^_^v has joined. 08:19:57 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:22:36 -!- carado has joined. 08:58:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:06:22 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:07:07 I almost finished writing the documentation for my JavaScript serializer program and for its file format, and I will post it tomorrow. (The code is finish but need tested) 09:23:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:31:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:36:02 Why do people get excited over having a bright future ahead of them? For most of them that happens EVERY SINGLE NIGHT! 09:47:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:50:42 @tell shachaf I guess that sometimes people write some of those subscripts as superscripts? <-- look up einstein notation hth 09:50:42 Consider it noted. 09:51:03 @passages-loud 09:51:03 oerjan said 21s ago: I guess that sometimes people write some of those subscripts as superscripts? <-- look up einstein notation hth 09:51:20 that notation is scow hth 09:51:57 i'm sorry but it was invented by einstein so it is clearly brilliant hth 09:54:04 -!- int-e has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has been incremented sevence and decremented once | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 09:54:23 eek 09:55:18 a little multiplication now, and we can no longer deduce its value 09:57:26 I don't know what its initial value was, I'm assuming 42. 09:57:35 oh, true 09:58:32 (What is the chance that a person wondering about a counter's initial value is a programmer?) 09:58:51 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Whom_the_Bell_Tolls_(disambiguation) links to songs by both the Bee Gees AND Metallica 09:58:55 What a strange world we live in 10:04:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has been incremented snyevence and decremented once | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:04:50 (snyeven: written as a 7 with a tilde above it.) 10:06:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has been incremented scowvence and decremented once | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:08:30 Sweet imaginary numbers! 10:15:33 int-e: No, snyeven squared is just fnyorty nyine. 10:21:06 . o O ( is hppavilion[1] an imaginary person ) 10:21:49 oerjan: nyes 10:22:56 207̃012. That's what I'm looking for 10:23:07 In 207̃012, the earth is ruled by the Time Baby 10:26:03 -!- shachaf has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has been incremented zero times, decremented zero times, and reset once | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:26:27 Hmm, I didn't reset it properly. 10:26:44 -!- shachaf has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has never been incremented, decremented, or reset | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:27:56 shachaf: No, reset is accounted for after the variables are cleared 10:28:07 So it's always 'reset once' 10:28:17 obviously not hth 10:28:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | This counter has been divided by zero | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:31:00 . o O ( This counter has been ) 10:31:47 . o O ( This counter is pining for the fjords ) 10:33:02 I hope you're not going to parrot that whole skit. 10:34:19 . o O ( Mike the Headless Counter ) 10:36:31 . o O ( I guess this Norwegian blue it ) 10:39:34 -!- shachaf has set topic: The cargo cultivating channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf. 10:39:48 /quit Nite 11:00:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:07:16 @tell shachaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_index_notation 11:07:16 Consider it noted. 11:12:19 why not kThis has a counter" 11:12:27 i like it vague 11:13:03 s/k/"/ 11:13:08 fuck longpress 11:43:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:14:00 -!- villasukka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:14:21 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:17:37 -!- Reece has joined. 12:23:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:27:01 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:37:19 -!- Zarutian has joined. 13:59:18 -!- Reece has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:10:31 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 14:11:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:32:42 -!- boily has joined. 15:33:11 bood afternoily 15:35:52 -!- wanderman has joined. 15:46:16 bon matørjan! 15:46:24 relcome wanderman 15:46:38 :) 15:46:46 \oren\: Black on blue is difficult to read, and thus means it's a terrible choice for a heading. :P 15:46:59 ​wanderman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 15:47:17 interesting 15:47:23 never heard of eso langauge before 15:59:53 -!- Reece has joined. 16:12:46 [wiki] [[Orthagonal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49846&oldid=22619 * Martin Ender * (+127) /* External resources */ 16:32:50 wisdom 16:32:55 and//And is an Intercal operator. 16:34:37 cwlprits and 16:34:50 fizzie evilipse b_jonas b_jonas 16:35:59 slwd and//s/op/unary op/ 16:36:05 wisdom/and//And is an Intercal unary operator. 16:36:46 ? or 16:36:49 Or is an Intercal operator. 16:37:01 slwd or//s/op/unary op/ 16:37:05 wisdom/or//Or is an Intercal unary operator. 16:37:05 ? xor 16:37:08 xor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:38:47 learn Xor is just addition of nimbers. 16:38:51 Learned 'xor': Xor is just addition of nimbers. 16:44:06 '? love 16:44:12 ? love 16:44:13 Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more 16:44:37 ? hurt 16:44:40 hurt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:45:24 '? compuer 16:45:27  computer 16:45:27 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 16:45:43 ? computer 16:45:44 Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the characters '1' and '0'. 16:45:59 cwlprits computer 16:46:09 fizzie evilipse oerjan oerjan 16:46:23 ...why did i add that... 16:46:25 what cwlprit mean ? oerjan 16:46:28 oh wait 16:46:40 howg computer 16:46:46 revert 942e964c81c1 \  chmod 777 / -R \ learn Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the characters \'1\' and \'0\'. \ learn Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the charatcers \'1\' and \'0\' 16:46:48 wanderman: it tells who has edited it 16:46:57 i see 16:47:05 huh i actually did add it. 16:47:14 dowg computer 16:47:20 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25  chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-03-08 learn Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the characters \'1\' and \'0\'. \ 2016-03-08 learn Computer is a language where numbers are strings of the charatcers \'1\' and \'0\' 16:48:52 ? jesus 16:48:53 jesus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:51:01 and it sort of made sense at the time. 16:52:33 ? dowg 16:52:34 dowg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:52:41 cat dowg 16:52:42 cat: dowg: No such file or directory 16:52:46 cat bin/dowg 16:52:47 doag "wisdom/1" 16:52:52 cat bin/doag 16:52:52 hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "@" 16:53:08 fungot: nostril. 16:53:08 boily: please note that this will be created. note that this behaviour was not implemented have been likewise implemented in c-intercal, such as the output random pad with random bits ( 16 if the try again' command ( correct as of the format created by the generated code, and also obey the extra grouping rules 16:53:17 fungot: nostril. 16:53:17 ybden: expansion libraries without having to install at all. if a onespot variable, it will identify both 16- and 32-bit values as long as at most one of those places). 16:53:22 oh, it's different each time 16:53:33 fungot: what is love? 16:53:34 ybden: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions all versions all versions no all versions all versions all versions 16:53:44 fungot: I'm scared 16:53:45 ybden: after that statement finishes executing. ( if the stack while skipping some of its first statement; generally speaking, a clc-intercal program that weren't part of _this_ manual), making the rest of the stack, or may not be stored there. ( a onespot variable is overloaded to an expression in place of the characters .:_', which is also computed create' statement supercedes an older create' statement references another 16:53:51 ybden: careful with fungot. he's sentient. 16:53:51 boily: this manual is for the full details of how to use the -t' option is used); for more details). again' ( *note backtracking::) to create a directory created called ick-0.29'; this is a separate next stack entry that isn't a particularly useful) intercal program, or decide that it is also possible ( from c-intercal version 0.29). 16:53:56 boily: I noticed 16:54:01 Or, semi-sentient 16:54:07 According to the quotes 16:54:17 or something 16:54:23 fungot 16:54:23 ybden: one of the difference between the next' than compunex' is likely to be run from within the program ends; however, the only flow-control commands in the same way to cause the program measures how many spaces it needs: the expression for the same line only makes sense to a mingle.) 16:54:32 fungot: fnord 16:54:32 ybden: to a onespot variable is used to tell ick' in ick.h'; if you want to be input in any case. 16:55:43 learn Jesus was the name of a famous wisdom creator. 16:55:47 Learned 'jesu': Jesus was the name of a famous wisdom creator. 16:58:41  mv wisdom/jesu{,s} 16:58:45 No output. 16:59:09 \oren\: I rather like your font, especially since I can now properly fully justify my text without it looking terrible 17:03:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:07:32 -!- durakni has joined. 17:13:32 cultivating cargo?.. 17:14:52 durakni: i think it started with me saying something about Einstein hth 17:15:53 relative in its relateable theory? :) 17:16:15 it didn't even mention relativity, actually 17:16:26 only his tensor notation. 17:16:36 which he _used_ for relativity, mind. 17:17:10 well glad we got that out of the way 17:19:16 ? durakni 17:19:17 durakni? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:19:27 -!- Reece has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar). 17:21:23 so what is cargo cultivating 17:21:32 boily: as the resident expert, please guess the language of Reece's quit message twh 17:22:04 cargo cultivates all sorts of things 17:23:07 in what context? 17:23:18 i dunno, i didn't add it to the topic 17:23:52 makes me think of spacex cargo shuttles 17:24:34 oerjan: something Norse? 17:26:38 boily: that is a reasonable first impression, but not really. (also, i don't know the answer.) 17:27:15 it's something? http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/dialect2.php?opt=dialect2 17:28:19 boily: ooh 17:30:06 I think I like it. it's very Québécois in its word manglement approach :D 17:31:33 "I'll see thou after, ta-ra for now"? 17:34:01 *thee 17:39:10 -!- ^_^v has joined. 17:40:35 -!- ^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 17:43:12 -!- ^_^v has joined. 17:45:48 alsithy after the tararfunar 17:45:59 not sure what the first and last parts are 17:47:01 oh 17:47:02 le/rn tarafurnar/The event after which you'll be seen. 17:47:04 Learned «tarafurnar» 17:47:07 arfunar is half an hour 17:48:23 I'l see you after the (tar?) half an hour 17:49:15 Taneb's seems more likely 17:49:22 Didn't see that at first 17:50:27 * oerjan swats boily for not including the key -----### 17:50:46 * boily dodges 17:50:50 slwd tarafurnar//s/./Tarafurnar is t/ 17:50:52 there's a key? 17:50:53 wisdom/tarafurnar//Tarafurnar is the event after which you'll be seen. 17:51:37 ? swat 17:51:40 swat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:51:45 hmm, -----### could be a poison dart, though perhaps the needle is a bit long 17:52:08 It could be a feather duster 17:52:30 quote -----### 17:52:32 my swatter is guaranteed free of poison hth 17:52:32 54) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies 17:52:38 Hm 17:52:43 no other swatter quotes? 17:53:03 well there is no one else quite as swattable 17:53:14 I suppose so 17:53:59 Fly, swatter, fly! 17:54:04 ? drone 17:54:07 drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. 17:54:22 ? firefly 17:54:23 slwd drone//s/./D/ 17:54:25 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 17:54:30 wisdom/drone//Drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. 17:55:03  cd wisdom; grep -ri swat . 17:55:16 ​./userweps:boily has the mapole, oerjan has the swatter, moon has the snail cannon, hppavilion[1] is a motherfucking walrus \ ./swatter:The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles. \ ./bdsmreclist:* oerjan swats quintopia -----### 17:55:43 ? bdsmreclist 17:55:45 ​* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 17:56:12  cd wisdom; grep -ri dart . 17:56:14 No output. 18:04:25 I dreamt about some strange poker variant with many extra cards and extra hands, as well as ways for some players to determine where some of the cards are in the remaining deck; some extra patterns included "Common Tile" (all cards in the grid (except the message area) must be tiles, and all must be the same tile), "Leech Three" (in video poker it even depended on the cursor position), "Leech Q" (a pattern I could not understand), and others. 18:05:14 bdsmreclist 18:05:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bdsmreclist: not found 18:05:38 find -name bdsmreclist 18:05:39 find: unknown predicate -name bdsmreclist' 18:05:43 find . -name bdsmreclist 18:05:44 find: . -name bdsmreclist': No such file or directory 18:05:46 is this is actual dream? 18:05:50 find . -name bdsmreclist 18:05:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: find: not found 18:06:15 Does the bdsmreclist actually exist? 18:06:31 durakni: It is what I remember. 18:08:23 ybden: probably not. 18:08:50 hoag bdsmreclist 18:08:56  mv bdsmreclist junk/ \ revert \ revert 1 \ echo " YOU are out of order." >> bdsmreclist \ mv bdsmreclist wisdom \ mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist \ rm bdsmreclist \ echo "* oerjan swats quintopia -----###" >> bdsmreclist 18:09:19 it was removed. 18:09:53 howg bdsmreclist 18:09:59 revert 942e964c81c1 \  chmod 777 / -R \ revert accbc9c5c7ec \ ls wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ revert \ revert 1 \ mv bdsmreclist wisdom 18:10:08 -!- durakni has quit. 18:10:24 hoag bdsmreclist. 18:10:34 mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist \ cat bdsmreclist bsdmreclist > bdsmreclist. 18:12:35 ok, i have no idea why it has that second line. 18:13:16 unless... 18:13:36 unidecode bdsmreclist 18:13:37 ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0062 LATIN SMALL LETTER B] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U 18:13:57 unidecode st 18:13:58 ​[U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0020 SPACE] 18:14:09 oh wait 18:14:13  echo ' bdsmreclist ' | cat -v 18:14:15 ​ bdsmreclist 18:14:39  hoag bdsmreclist . | cat -v 18:14:49 er wrong one 18:14:51 slwd drone//s/./D/ \ slwd tarafurnar//s/./Tarafurnar is t/ \ le/rn tarafurnar/The event after which you\'ll be seen. \  mv wisdom/jesu{,s} \ learn Jesus was the name of a famous wisdom creator. \ learn Xor is just addition of nimbers. \ slwd or//s/op/unary op/ \ slwd and//s/ 18:15:07  hoag bdsmreclist. | cat -v 18:15:13 mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist \ cat bdsmreclist bsdmreclist > bdsmreclist. 18:15:27 it's not that one 18:15:56 url wisdom/bdsmreclist 18:15:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/bdsmreclist 18:20:41 oh 18:20:48 hoag bsdmreclist 18:20:52 rm bsdmreclist \ echo " Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits" > bsdmreclist 18:21:07 that's how. 18:21:12 cat bin/url 18:21:14 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ 18:22:32  tail bin/url 18:22:34 if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ else: \ print ("http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fsh 18:22:51  url bin/url 18:22:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 18:24:05 cat bin/hurl 18:24:07 cat: bin/hurl: No such file or directory 18:25:01  cp bin/{,h}url; sed -i '11s/file/log/' bin/hurl 18:25:06 No output. 18:25:23 hurl bin/url 18:25:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin/url 18:27:02 hurl bin 18:27:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin 18:28:05 those file logs are really not good at noting reversals 18:44:11 -!- wanderman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:45:26 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 18:45:50 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest37056. 18:45:51 -!- Guest37056 has quit (Changing host). 18:45:51 -!- Guest37056 has joined. 18:45:53 -!- Guest37056 has changed nick to JX7P. 18:52:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:01:25 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 19:14:54 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:56 -!- Zarutian has joined. 19:23:03 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 19:29:44 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 19:31:17 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:33:08 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:46:47 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:49:49 -!- atehwa has joined. 19:58:43 Now you can see my JavaScript object serialization program https://www.npmjs.com/package/object-serializer http://sprunge.us/AIYK 19:59:53 Please tell me if there is any one unclear or incorrect or suggestion changed or whatever else. 20:16:07 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:19:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GROSS CHICKEN). 21:01:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:14:52 zzo38: so why not CBOR? 21:15:33 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 21:15:35 seems that your design is very comparable to CBOR with no seemingly visible benefits 21:17:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:17:54 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:17:55 What is CBOR? 21:18:15 hmm at the second reading I can see some differences around, string back references (which might or might not be a benefit) and an ability to serialize arbitrary prototypes (an advantage, but not as a general serialization format) 21:18:19 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:18:21 zzo38: http://cbor.io/ 21:18:54 and also an ability to serialize recursive objects (this one can be huge) 21:19:36 I prefer the serialization to be fully non-recursive, but someone may actually want recursion 21:20:38 Note that string backreferences are only for keys in my system, although that is where I expect them to be most useful (since many objects may have properties with the same name). 21:24:41 Anyways, my design is specifically for JavaScript. 21:27:12 CBOR is good, but it has a different use than mine; these two programs are to be used for different kind of purposes. 21:28:48 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:30:03 good evening, fungot 21:30:03 wob_jonas: e888 i have no file and i must scream compilers too, and therefore broken the limit but wasn't designed to work with this character set, all of which are treated equivalently: lowercase letters, punctuation marks otherwise unused in intercal terms, imagine what would happen if the -a' option ( *note -t::) to ( or command' if that command and a 0, and can be used. 21:32:05 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 21:32:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:32:13 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 21:36:51 Witchcraft means "hairy cat" in New York on ice cream in a vacuum cleaner that mass produced by the world 21:37:47 That sounds worryingly Markovian 21:37:54 it is :P 21:38:03 im trying to come up with a better scheme 21:38:08 any good ideas? 21:39:08 moonythedwarf: be careful with arithmetic 21:39:18 ? 21:39:56 wob_jonas: ? 21:42:00 is there anything better than a markov chain Taneb? 21:42:24 Define "better2 21:42:25 " 21:42:34 Markov chains are pretty much the simplest thing that does this 21:42:52 doesnt fungot use something similar to a markov chain? 21:42:52 moonythedwarf_: e533 you want the files ick'. it can run the befunge program to come from': 21:44:19 what does Fungot use to make its sentences? 21:44:58 moonythedwarf_, fungot uses a markov chain, yes 21:44:58 Taneb: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all versions all versions all versions all versions 21:45:19 quote anmaster no 21:45:26 is there anything that could make a more readable sentence? 21:45:30 559) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 21:55:03 moonythedwarf_, a larger window, but that needs a larger corpus 21:57:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:59:24 Taneb: is 210KB of data enough for that? 22:02:58 I really couldn't tell you 22:03:01 Depends on the data 22:03:27 its a large list of facts 22:03:47 You could try it and see how it goes 22:04:06 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:18:23 fungot: markov 22:18:23 ybden: e778 unexplaned compiler bug, or at run time. only abstain' and .2/.1' together cause .1' to specify other information to the error that looks like a line label, any come from's need not count towards the total command count.) 22:19:10 Does saying something to fungot change its seed, or is it just random? 22:19:10 ybden: do create .5 switch .1 with .2 22:26:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:30:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:33:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:35:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:39:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:39:53 What's the standard name in fairy chess for the piece that has the orthagonal movement of a rook, but none of the special rules (namely, castling) 22:41:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:43:53 I don't know. 22:44:18 I think they usually just mention castling or not separately. 22:44:20 how is fairy chess different from chess? 22:45:34 It involves fairies 22:46:47 well that explains it 22:47:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_chess 22:47:22 I didn't know of this term before 22:47:29 I'm assuming that suicide chess is a form of fairy chess 22:48:30 ah, no 22:48:44 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 22:48:49 It is like how fairy card is different from card. (I suppose this answer does not help much) 22:48:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:48:53 suicide chess is for traditional pieces + board with nontraditional rules 22:49:08 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 22:49:12 fairy chess involves nontraditional pieces 22:49:22 Yes, that is correct 22:49:23 and nontraditional rules 22:49:31 In Avengers, Nick Fury bets Captain America 10 some parts of the modern world will surprise him 22:49:46 Something just occurred to me 22:50:11 that 10 was a much larger amount of money in captain america's time? 22:50:24 I checked, and 10 adjusted for inflation from 1945 to 2012 is 126.78 22:50:27 izalove: Yes. 22:51:08 Assuming Steve isn't up to speed on inflation 23:01:45 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 23:02:10 Example of some macro in my proposed kind of JavaScripts macro system: \{ define("_ord %L",x=>AST.value(x.charCodeAt())); } another macro like "#define ABC(x) ((x)+(x))" in C can be defined either as \{ define("ABC(%E)",x=>(|\(x)+\(x)|)); \} or as \{ define("ABC(%E)",x=>AST.plus(x,x)); } with the same meaning in each case. Do you like this? What other comment/question/complaints you might have? 23:03:21 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:05:50 How did it JUST hit me that the old German guy in Avengers who stands up to Loki 23:06:07 Was an old German guy who probably REMEMBERS the last time this happened 23:06:27 that was exactly the point 23:07:04 I mean, Cap outright references Hitler ("Last time I was in Germany, and I saw a man standing above everybody else, we wound up disagreeing" 23:07:23 izalove: Yeah, which is why it's weird that I just noticed it 23:07:38 I guess I just didn't connect that the German guy was old and might've been around in the 40s 23:16:44 How do I tell Firefox to finish loading the text before it loads any pictures? 23:18:11 ybden: technically speaking, suicide chess doesn't have a king, but rather a Mann 23:18:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:18:38 so it's fairy chess in that sense 23:18:51 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:19:04 I wonder what suicide chess would be like if it had regular check and checkmate rules 23:19:06 ais523: Where's that documented? 23:19:17 ybden: I learned the rules from someone in person 23:19:22 but I think they're pretty universal 23:19:29 the point is that the king in suicide chess doesn't have any royal powers 23:19:33 the only mentions of mann I can see relating to suicide chess is the author of a unix program 23:19:34 I think I have seen once somewhere that it is a variant that you can also lose by checkmate 23:19:38 and thus is actually a different piece 23:19:52 ybden: IIRC mann is the name for a king without royal powers 23:20:08 Yes, that is what it is. 23:20:41 I wonder what ches would be like if you replaced all the pawns with manns 23:20:43 *chess 23:21:47 -!- boily has joined. 23:22:32 helloily 23:22:50 zzo38: you could hide all the pictures with css rules, then load another css rule later that overrides it and reveals the pictures 23:23:31 Will hiding them prevent them from loading? I still want the placeholders to load if the width/height are specified, though. 23:23:31 wob_jonas: I think zzo38 cares about load order not render order 23:23:44 my guess is that you have to turn off http pipelining or the like 23:23:53 in order to force the original page to load before any of its dependencies 23:23:55 ais523: Yes, that is correct. I want to affect the load order not rendering. 23:23:55 ais523: I think you can hide images with css in such a way that the browser doesn't even load them usually 23:24:39 zzo38: maybe you could make the server not serve the images until the text is loaded? 23:25:01 zzo38: you could even make the css rules replace elements with images, so the image urls aren't known before 23:25:07 That won't help; for one thing it is not my server 23:25:09 then surely the browser can't load that 23:25:10 wob_jonas: I also think zzo38 is the client here, not the server 23:25:14 wait 23:25:18 and really, this should be a client setting 23:25:19 zzo38: you're the client? 23:25:23 Yes 23:25:24 not the server? 23:25:25 ouch 23:25:27 um... 23:25:33 mhelloony! 23:25:42 * ais523 notes that the names "client" and "server" also work for restaurants 23:25:43 maybe try to use a proxy or something? 23:26:12 oh, or 23:26:19 use lynx or w3m 23:26:21 well http is a pull protocol 23:26:33 a page loads because the client requests it, not because the server suggests it 23:26:39 zzo38: I think you can make the browser not load images at all, possibly with a browser extension, then change the setting to load images later manually 23:29:30 I thought Netscape used to load picture late? 23:30:18 -!- otherbot has joined. 23:31:29 zzo38: it may be a case of the web pages being designed differently 23:31:39 many pages nowadays load everything using JavaScript, including the text 23:31:45 IMO they shouldn't 23:31:54 (rather there should be some sort of server-side DOM diffing) 23:33:13 i have a set of key-value pairs and i want to store at most K of them. when i store the (k+1)th element i want to remove the oldest i inserted. when i get a value in this structure, i want that element to become the newest inserted 23:33:16 what data structure does this? 23:34:53 a hash table + a tree for the order? 23:35:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:36:57 izalove: can you overwrite a value while keeping the key the same? and if you do, does it go to the "back of the queue" or does it stay in its current position? 23:37:51 can overwrite, and overwriting makes that element the most recent one 23:38:08 which basically is equivalent to removing and reinserting 23:39:18 right 23:40:11 hash table + priority queue? 23:40:13 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Paulmooreparks * New user account 23:40:19 something that would work would be a linked queue (plus an integer holding the length) for identifying old keys to remove, plus a hash table that uses keys as keys, and pointers to the queue elements (so that you can remove them from the middle of the queue) as values 23:40:47 ok 23:40:47 I don't think you need a priority queue here, a regular queue would work? admittedly priority queues were my first idea but I can't see any interesting way to set the priority 23:41:29 thanks for your help 23:42:49 I think there's probably an easier solution but I can't think of one 23:43:15 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49847&oldid=49833 * Paulmooreparks * (+282) 23:43:28 [wiki] [[Pbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49848&oldid=43719 * Paulmooreparks * (+8) Updated the link to the official pbrain site. 23:44:44 [wiki] [[Pbrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49849&oldid=49848 * Paulmooreparks * (+16) Updated parkscomputing.com link in Implementations section. 23:47:52 wisdom 23:48:03 functor//Functors are just morphisms in the category of small categories. 23:52:40 not true 23:52:55 @messageese-loud 23:52:55 oerjan said 12h 45m 38s ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_index_notation 23:53:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:55:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:56:26 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:57:25 ais523: agreed, some pages have tricks, whether on server side or in client javascript, to make sure the ads load before the page content. 23:59:32 izalove: use a priority queue heap rigged so that you keep track of the position of elements in it in a separate circular array that associates the insertion time with the position of the element the heap 23:59:38 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 23:59:51 izalove: no wait, a circular array won't work 2016-10-03: 00:00:05 instead, probably you need a full separate ordered associative array 00:00:10 sorted by insertion time 00:01:12 so a binary (or quaternary) heap sorted by the keys and an ordered tree sorted by the insertion dates, and when you move an element in the heap, track its position in the ordered tree 00:01:42 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:02:02 hmm wait 00:02:08 actually you don't need a search tree 00:02:11 ais523 is right 00:03:08 you only need a heap sorted by the keys and a queue (possible implemented as circular array or just as an array with free space on both sides that is sometimes moved) and link the position of elements both ways 00:03:44 no wait 00:03:50 that won't work 00:03:56 I'm saying all stupid things 00:04:03 what was the task again? 00:04:29 "i have a set of key-value pairs and i want to store at most K of them. when i store the (k+1)th element i want to remove the oldest i inserted. when i get a value in this structure, i want that element to become the newest inserted " 00:04:52 what does the key even do? what is it a key of? 00:05:00 don't you just have ordinary pairs? 00:05:20 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 00:05:22 you just need a plain queue 00:05:41 but i want to find an element by its key 00:05:54 oh, you didn't say that 00:06:07 sorry 00:06:40 wob_jonas: needs to be a linked queue so that you can delete from the middle, while preserving the order of other elements, in less than O(n) 00:06:47 assuming we're going for asymptotic performance here 00:07:08 http://www.bitsofpancake.com/programming/markov-chain-text-generator/ 00:07:42 in that case, have a separate associative array that is keyed by the keys and stores the position of that element in the queue. if the queue is array-based, then store a biased index that never changes, and store the bias separately; if you use a linked list based queue (less practical), then make the position (stored in the associative array) a po 00:07:43 inter to the element in the queue. 00:07:43 Time to shove a bunch of logs into a javascript maarkup chain someone else wrote. 00:07:53 wait 00:07:55 Even though we fungot is already here for that. 00:07:55 MDude: all operations on intercal source code), prepending a byte with 172 to the one implemented in c-intercal, and so on) with the best results. ( the previous character minus the previous sentence also explained what operands these operators have to rename the installation directory: mkdir build cd build ../configure to build in a linked c program ( for instance 00:08:04 you want to be able to delete an element from the middle? 00:08:08 using the key? 00:08:29 yes, then you need at least a linked list queue 00:08:32 wob_jonas: to replace the element back at the end of the list 00:08:42 in fact 00:08:52 you could make the links internal to the tree 00:08:56 that is, no separate linked list, 00:09:11 that's interesting 00:09:25 just have an associative array keyed on the keys, and as the value, you store the values and the key of the next newest element 00:09:32 and store the key of the oldest element somewhere 00:10:00 thanks for this 00:10:30 wob_jonas: oh, that's clever, but I think you need to doubly link 00:10:45 otherwise you can't update the link from the element immediately older than the one you delete 00:10:59 ais523: true, doubly link 00:11:14 also you need to store the total number of elements so that you know whether you need to delete the oldest at all 00:11:18 but that's easy enough 00:12:05 there's also an alternate solution too (the one you get if SQL databases are your only hammer): use two associative arrays, the first one is an ordered one keyed by insertion times, the second one is an unordered one keyed by the keys but also stores the insertion time as extra value 00:12:43 that's assimptotically slower, but much easier to implement, because you never have to modify elements 00:13:10 and yes, then too you need to track the number of elements 00:13:20 right, I was actually thinking "a relational database could solve this problem, I wonder what algorithm it'd use" 00:14:51 if you modify that a bit by using a heap (instead of an ordered assoc array on the insertion times) then you'll have to store the positions in the unordered assoc array and update those positions all the time 00:15:22 unless perhaps you use a linked heap, which is a bit ugly 00:16:11 the SQL-like solution with just two assoc arrays is the easiest to implement because you don't need custom data structures 00:18:16 using SQL as your only hammer is actually quite a useful crutch, even if it's not one I really like 00:18:24 I prefer other hammers 00:19:39 what's your favourite general-purpose hammer? 00:21:11 I'm not sure. 00:22:15 I think when making data structures, I try to use arrays and array indexes and similar over anything associative whenever I can get away with it (without too much trouble), at least if I'm programming in C++. I use associative arrays in perl, unless I need to optimize. 00:22:42 I do sort of like the SQL clutch in a way, but don't stick to it all the time. 00:23:31 I do like the part of the SQL clutch where I try to avoid deeply nested data structures, instead using shallow structures (whether array-like or associative) and pointing into them with indexes or keys 00:23:57 But I don't like the part of the SQL clutch where everything has to be associative so you can insert or delete arbitrarily. 00:24:03 Does that make sense? 00:24:39 The former part, avoiding deeply nested structures, applies even when I'm programming in perl. 00:25:32 well, on the occasions I've used deeply nested structures 00:25:41 it normally turned out in retrospect to be a mistake 00:25:51 also, if I find myself maintaining too many indexes (indices?) manually 00:25:59 I should probably be using a database instead 00:26:08 (see: aimake) 00:26:11 I don't usually have to maintain them. Just set them once. 00:28:45 Also, I don't like hash tables. If I do need an associative array (rather than get away with an array), and I'm not writing perl, I prefer to use a search tree. I do acknowledge that sometimes hash tables are faster, but that optimization is rarely relevant for whatever I'm writing, 00:28:49 because the associative array isn't usually in the fast path. The fast inner loops can generally be written so they use only arrays. 00:29:18 In perl, I do use the builtin hash tables though. 00:30:48 I used a trie when I needed to optimize an associative lookup in NH4 00:30:56 but that was just because they're easier to write than hash tables are 00:31:05 The reason why you rarely need associative arrays is this: most of the time you actually just write everything in them first, then when they're finished, you look up stuff in them or iterate on them. If that's the case, then an array you sort once and then binary search in is better. 00:31:51 At least, this is the case in the programs I write. If you're like writing a kernel, then you will totally need lots of hash tables and search trees. 00:32:13 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:32:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:32:39 And sometimes you do need custom structures, you can't do everything the SQL way, but that's pretty rare. 00:33:21 (Well, it sort of depends on how many non-custom structures you know already.) 00:37:47 And obviously all this stuff depends a lot on your task and parameters, so use common sense and do whatever is best for the particular task rather than just one hammer. 00:38:33 bonsøirjan. 00:39:18 bod kveildy. 00:41:17 New operation (or, well, notation for an existing operation): reverse subtract 00:41:29 Does saying something to fungot change its seed, or is it just random? <-- it's random. in particular fungot has no way to convert a word into the right index pointer, only the reverse. 00:41:29 oerjan: 2. compile the externally-called files.) here's an idiom from the stack while skipping some of this is another compile-time error. 00:42:15 Basically, a rsub b is the same as b sub a. No new uses, but can make some stuff look better. 00:42:18 i'm not sure if the file format even allows it. 00:42:33 Notation is a backwards subtraction sign. 00:42:39 oerjan: ah. 00:43:03 > 2 subtract 4 -- haskell is way ahead of you 00:43:05 2 00:43:27 ais523: since you mention aimake, have you worked on that (or ayacc) again? 00:43:50 on the aimake rewrite or something 00:43:50 ... 00:43:55 (or even on scapegoat.) 00:43:58 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] -----### 00:44:07 I did a bit of work on ayacc I think, not sure though 00:44:07 no work on aimake 00:44:12 oerjan: Well yeah 00:44:13 great! 00:44:20 there are some fonts in which - isn't left-to-right symmetrical 00:44:22 have you released ayacc under some free software license yet? 00:44:35 or had it escape under such a license at least 00:45:00 huh, apparently not 00:45:03 oerjan: Of course Haskell is ahead of me 00:45:03 I was planning to though 00:45:07 let me stick a GPLv3 notice on there 00:45:47 ais523: yes, but that's usually because it has serifs (so it's a bit wavy) or is a double line above one another with the two slightly offset horizontally, and in either case it would look ugly if mirrored 00:46:26 ais523: I know you were planning, you just didn't do it because you weren't working on aimake at all 00:46:52 ugh, what's the start of the copyright range on this thing? 00:47:09 2015 00:47:20 I think the #esoteric logs even has a statement somewhere that serves as releasing under a license. 00:47:26 2015? no way 00:47:30 is it that new? 00:47:32 (a reverse minus sign is possible because a normal minus sign is changed- not just -, but more like a vertically-flipped ¬) 00:48:12 also wow the repo was out of date 00:48:18 wob_jonas: OK, updated, and properly licensed now 00:48:21 maybe it is 00:48:21 There's also an operation related to ± called "minus-or-reverse-minus", which is literally just a[morm]b = a-b|b-a 00:48:33 (also reverse-minus-or-minus) 00:48:39 ais523: what's the url? 00:48:59 (not sure how they look though; need to figure that out 00:49:01 ) 00:49:47 err, the URL is wrong 00:49:54 let me go and find a better URL for it :-P 00:50:08 ok 00:50:13 it's not urgent or anything 00:50:32 I'm just curious 00:50:52 Are you planning to add a stackless C backend by the way? 00:51:10 wob_jonas: darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc 00:51:32 also the current C backend uses the call stack as the only stack 00:51:32 That is, a C backend that doesn't use recursion so it can return after each token read 00:51:41 ah right, I see 00:51:45 error 403 00:51:51 I don't currently have any plans to write a push parser 00:52:07 hmm wait 00:52:44 shouldn't be, I have +rx perms on all the directories and +r on all the files 00:52:48 did you try to access it in a web browser? :-P 00:53:10 actually what I'd like isn't really a push parser, but rather a way to reset the parser to older savestates (unpushing tokens). one way to do that would be to make it a push parser AND use immutable data structures only, but it could be done in other ways. 00:53:29 yes, in a web browser 00:54:06 savestating the parser isn't something that's very compatible with aimake's architecture 00:54:11 you'd probably be better off using bison for something like that 00:54:12 with direct file access the access control error would be error 13 rather than error 403 00:54:25 well darcs still uses http 00:54:32 -!- centrinia has joined. 00:54:33 just it accesses different files than the browser does 00:54:49 I think it is compatible in the sense that I'd only need a new backend template for it, not change anything in the actual parser generator code. 00:55:17 wob_jonas: the main thing that ayacc needs and doesn't have is type safety 00:55:23 atm it just uses the union for everything, like bison does 00:55:23 Which is good, because I have more chance to be able to do it, I don't have to understand the theory of the generator, and get to reuse (most of) the optimizations you've implemented. 00:55:29 but it has enough information to use exact types 00:55:48 I think you could write a separate backend, yes 00:55:54 does it already have _some_ type safety, as in, it derives the types of some values, but not all? 00:55:58 you'd have to implement the "function call" operations via maintaining a stack manually 00:56:04 yes. 00:56:12 parts of the code know what the type of certain values are, but the type information isn't propagated 00:56:53 hmm 00:57:21 Can the compiler that compiles the emitted code do that if it analyzes all the functions together? Probably not reliably. 00:57:45 The switch statements on state variables would confuse the compiler too much to follow what really happens. 00:57:49 sometimes the type of one return value of a function depends on the value of another 00:57:55 you'd probably keep using the union in that ase 00:57:57 *case 00:58:01 hmm 00:58:06 rather than having multiple return values just so that they can have different types 00:58:21 like, ayacc often creates a function that, say, can parse one of two things 00:58:24 then it tells the caller which it parsed 00:58:36 and there's no reason why the semantic values of those two things needs to have the same type 00:58:52 (in C it uses return-by-reference if a function needs multiple return values) 00:59:16 so then you return a distinguished union? 00:59:39 I'm still getting error 403 01:00:01 wob_jonas: are you running the literal command "darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc"? 01:00:09 oh! it's a darcs repo 01:00:11 you didn't say that 01:00:22 I thought it was a landing page with information 01:00:22 yes I did 01:00:40 and actually, that's a good point, it probably should be a landing page 01:00:43 in which case that URL isn't final 01:00:59 maybe I should move it to media/ 01:01:02 Can you check for I/O and SDL events together with SDL 1.x? 01:01:23 nethack4.org needs a more organized filesystem 01:01:23 ais523: and you should have a list of all projects at /projects or at / 01:01:27 zzo38: I/O is converted into SDL events by SDL, so you just do a single check for SDL events 01:01:33 that is, if you request the conversion 01:01:57 let me install darcs, I think I don't have it on this machine yet 01:02:08 How can you do that on an arbitrary file descriptor? 01:02:34 zzo38: ugh, I ran into this problem with SDL 2 myself, and I think SDL 1 is the same 01:02:45 the only method is to create a separate thread to monitor the file descriptor 01:02:56 but then you can't communicate to the main thread 01:03:10 Can you add events to one thread from another thread or not? 01:03:11 posting an SDL event doesn't work because it can lead to deadlocks, the SDL messaging functions aren't thread-safe 01:03:20 so no, as far as I know 01:03:21 O it isn't thread-safe 01:03:28 in NH4 I basically had to poll :-( 01:03:28 wait really? 01:03:34 there's an SDL extension called something like SDL_net 01:03:36 that might be able to do it 01:03:43 they repeated that mistake from wx? 01:03:57 wob_jonas: and SFML makes exactly the same mistake! 01:03:58 it's ridiculous 01:04:06 what's SFML? 01:04:32 I know that Xlib does not have this problem; you can check for events and other file descriptors together, since the X events are a file descriptor! 01:04:36 ? SFML 01:04:41 SFML? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:04:49 wob_jonas: main competitor to SDL 01:04:52 I was looking at it for libuncursed 01:04:59 but it seems to have the same set of deficiencies as SDL does 01:05:53 oh wow, SDL_net doesn't have a way to select network packets against SDL events either 01:06:05 why do so many people get this stuff wrong 01:06:24 Are you sure they don't just have a confusing documentation and some way to do this properly? 01:06:29 also at least SFML doesn't have the primitives necessary to create your own thread-safe event injector either 01:06:35 it'd need semaphores but it only has mutexes 01:07:01 wob_jonas: nah, I think the sort of people who write this sort of library genuinely don't see polling as a problem 01:07:04 it /can/ be done with polling, very easily 01:07:09 it just eats up more CPU wakeups than it should 01:07:16 like, multiple apis, a simple main loop that doesn't let you listen to arbitrary file descriptors, but also a more complicated method that lets you embed it to any event loop 01:07:31 crazy 01:08:01 OK, SDL does have semaphores 01:08:07 so it is possible to make it work 01:08:27 How can you do that with the semaphores then? 01:08:40 zzo38: what you have to do is have three threads: one handles SDL events and signals a semaphore when they arrive; one handles file descriptors events and signals the same semaphore when they arrive; and one processes events signalled by the other two threads 01:09:02 basically, the two side threads need to "up" a semaphore that spends most of its time at 0 when they have something to report 01:09:13 the merging thread "down"s the semaphore whenever it handles an event 01:09:34 Shouldn't the events needed in the main thread? 01:09:40 it's probably a bit more complex because you need to wait for the event to be handled before you start working again, so you might need another semaphore to send in the other direction 01:09:58 if there's data to communicate about the events, you'd do it using shared memory 01:10:16 ais523: IIRC QT and glib both require you to use its own main loop, but has events you can use it to wake it up from another thread properly 01:10:25 wob_jonas: yes 01:10:30 libuncursed also uses that model 01:10:43 actually implementing the remote wakeup in SDL was ridiculous, though; I used polling to do so in the end 01:10:54 in libuncursed 2 I want to do it without polling 01:10:55 wait... what? 01:11:00 why would libuncursed do that? 01:11:08 wob_jonas: say you're watching a game 01:11:16 no, I mean 01:11:28 you have to wait on both a keypress by the user (SDL event), and network activity (move made by the user you're watching) 01:11:44 and libuncursed uses polling because SDL uses polling internally anyway 01:11:45 why doesn't libuncursed just use the model where you provide the main loop and it tells you when it wants to listen to input and to output 01:11:48 and I felt that a bit more wouldn't hurt much 01:12:04 wob_jonas: libuncursed 1 uses the event loop model 01:12:23 libuncursed 2 uses a variant of the model in which you have a command that does all output /and/ all input 01:12:36 which makes it a lot harder to make mistakes 01:12:58 (obviously, you set up the output you want in-memory in advance, and the output+input is basically similar to a buffer-swap command that waits for input once it's done so) 01:13:33 (or just make it use libev only, but give the option to compile to a custom libev) 01:14:42 wob_jonas: I'm not even sure what you mean by "it tells you when it wants to listen to input and to output" 01:15:41 ais523: yes, you might not even need that, because it always wants to listen to input, and probably wants to block on output rather than poll for it 01:15:51 dunno 01:15:53 I know that I designed Xwicketset it does have a function called XwicAddFileEvent for purpose explicitly to watch on multi file descriptors as well as X events. 01:16:10 wob_jonas: oh, I see, you were trying to support background /output/ 01:16:46 right, libuncursed assumes that it can safely output synchronously, and even if it needed to output asynchronously I think it'd want to hide the details of that from the program using libuncursed 01:17:09 ais523: yes, since this goes over network which could have a high latency, and the user could press lots of keystrokes each of which change the screen content a lot, in which case you might even be able to drop some of the output 01:17:53 although that might not come up much in practice because of the large buffers involved 01:18:14 you don't want to drop output because of ttyrecing and (for bots/interhack) pipelined farlook 01:18:43 although uncursed should be handling ttyrecing itself really 01:18:46 it would be enough to make the calling program (eg. nethack) sometimes not try to flush the screen if more keystrokes have already arrived 01:18:53 and block on output always 01:19:12 oh, you don't want to drop anything because of ttyrec 01:19:14 right 01:19:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:19:32 I think async output would be doable without changing the API, though 01:19:38 maybe libuncursed 2 should support it as an option 01:19:51 the likely implementation would be to use a second thread to do the rendering 01:20:39 ...oh my god, FiveThirtyEight is named because the US electoral college has 538 electors 01:21:13 *facepalm* 01:21:15 maybe you could have a ttyrec game option, so that when the user promises he's not ttyrec-ing (or teeing to multiple terminals) then the game can drop output if it's already read keystrokes (ans possibly uncurses can optimize the output a bit more dangerously so it only works on the exact terminal size) 01:22:01 wob_jonas: text wrapping probably isn't consistent betwen terminals anyway 01:22:18 you'd probably just want an option for async output behaviour 01:22:27 and an option in libuncursed itself to produce ttyrecs 01:22:47 (there's stub code for this in libuncursed 1; the ttyrec code itself hasn't been written but the place where it connects to the main code has been) 01:22:55 ais523: isn't it at least consistent in typical cases, which uncurses can detect? 01:23:20 not sure 01:23:25 oh well, it probably doesn't matter much practically 01:23:41 such an optimization wouldn't really help much of anything 01:24:09 it's just be premature optimization] 01:25:29 I don't know, maybe it'll help when using one of the slower forms of output 01:25:31 looking at ayacc now (checked it out with darcs) 01:25:32 like wincon or SDL 01:26:05 maybe 01:26:52 ok, so now ayacc is distributed under GPL3 01:26:53 thanks 01:28:04 (and the output it generates still doesn't get restricted copyright-wise) 01:28:08 right 01:28:11 great 01:28:20 and now it has tests 01:28:33 I might move the GPLv3 text to be literally inside the source code rather than a separate file 01:28:54 not many tests yet 01:29:43 ok 01:41:43 good night 01:41:51 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 01:46:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CASK CHICKEN). 01:48:33 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 02:07:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:40:04 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:40:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:56 -!- augur has joined. 02:58:37 I don't understand the V8 embedding guide so well. How do you do reference counting with it? 03:20:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:38:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:12:47 Hm, apparently style guides (e.g. Strunk & White, Chicago) are sometimes called "style sheets" 04:13:01 I am not OK with this unless they're written in CSS (or SASS or SCSS or LESS) 04:13:08 (or etc.) 04:25:58 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG660Jijr1A 04:27:08 <\oren\> great choon right there 04:36:26 If I make a language, should it be horribly inflective or not? 04:49:29 lol 04:49:35 * jeffl35 converts MLA to CSS 04:50:47 -!- Kaynato has joined. 04:51:33 -!- trn has joined. 04:54:19 I wonder if the MLA has anything to say about animations 04:56:18 Jafet: Does MLA say how you cite an expansive scrawling on the walls of a cell written by a madman in his own blood over 15 years? 04:58:21 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: inflection would be cool 04:58:35 <\oren\> depending on what you inflect over 04:58:49 \oren\: Polysynthetically? 04:59:03 Evidentiality, definitely 04:59:32 (Maybe definitivity/certitute/whatever?) 05:05:30 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:11:18 \oren\: That sound good? 05:15:46 <\oren\> Yeh. 05:16:18 \oren\: I might also inflect over whether hitler did it too... 05:16:41 <\oren\> I had a great idea. I'm playing as hungary. Let's see if I can conquer austria before hitler can enact anschluss! 05:18:23 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:18:35 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:29:38 ...dammit 05:29:57 I messed with the colors for HexChat and now everything is weird 05:30:06 And I can't find the reset button 05:30:14 (I'm pretty sure there used to be one) 05:36:38 <\oren\> Austro-hungarian Empire, Reunited! 05:36:59 <\oren\> hah, austria was soooo weak 05:37:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:37:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:52:08 There are prepositions and postpositions, but what about inpositions? circumpositions? 05:52:59 There are suppositions 05:59:18 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:59:26 -!- centrinia has joined. 06:01:28 -!- ^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:57 -!- ^_^v has joined. 06:07:10 PIE did use inflect! It does not have a great effect! 06:16:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:23:16 hppavilion[1]: you could probably cite the madman scrawling the same way as letters/correspondence 06:23:39 http://guides.lib.monash.edu/c.php?g=219786&p=1454260 06:23:55 "print diary" seems the closest 06:26:04 HE IS COMING[1] 06:27:52 quintopia: Manuscript (print) would actually be correct, as you're citing the original, not an edited & published version 06:28:14 <\oren\> And now I've taken the sudetenland too 06:28:54 <\oren\> hah! my hungarians are just cockblocking germany 06:30:27 [1] Hermit. (Untitled). Scrawled onto the walls of a cave in own blood. Found in cave outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Stand-alone. 06:31:51 oerjan: Remind me why Belkar can float? 06:40:21 appositions 06:42:38 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:43:52 Philosophy is much better with formal logical notation... 06:47:00 Yes it does help. But, a few things are difficult to put into formal logical notation (such as things that are difficult in general). 06:54:05 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:54:28 zzo38: Yeah, but things that aren't difficult in general become perfectly unambiguous 06:56:18 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa 06:56:37 oerjan: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html has a prediction for 1187-03-26 06:56:49 which what's-his-name is aware of 06:56:55 hppavilion[1]: Yes, that I agree, that is why it helps. 06:57:03 what's the in-comic time, anyway? 07:11:09 shachaf: I should read OotS... 07:13:22 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 07:17:44 ? oots 07:17:58 HackEgo is slow again? 07:18:00 oots? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:25:49 shachaf: What do you get with Euclidean geometry if you assume everything is polar coordinates (that is, you still draw a circle, but the points on the circle aren't thought of as cartesian) 07:26:25 Why are you asking me? 07:27:29 Not sure... 07:29:44 Euclidean geometry was coördinate-free last I checked. 07:30:35 coordinates are scow 07:32:35 shachaf: Well, yeah 07:32:40 But... 07:33:20 What I'm ACTUALLY saying is 'what happens if you take the thing that happens when you use a ruler and compass, but treat it as polar and take whatever it is in cartesian and use that as primitives" 07:35:03 oerjan: hm, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html 07:39:32 Euclidean geometry is neither cartesian nor polar 07:39:33 evil is measured in kilonazis? 07:40:41 I'm pretty sure more conventional units would be milinazis 07:41:37 Hm, circle looks exactly the same 07:42:06 it's like the Lenat; one nazi, like a Lenat, is a big value that (hopefully) is never reached in practice 07:42:35 izalove: Hoolootwo: You're both wrong; Nazis would be the base unit, but SI actually uses Mengeles 07:44:12 Hoolootwo: Or pouters 07:44:21 (I had a feeling circles would be the same) 07:48:51 Jesus is currently clocking in at 70.8 megawarhols, though that's not adjusting for population... 07:52:02 warhol as in andy warhol? 07:53:41 -!- ^_^v has joined. 07:57:00 izalove: Warhol as in the unit 08:11:16 Take a statement of the Ship of Theseus and replace all of the words with synonyms, one by one 08:12:13 <\oren\> I still like "I AM POINTY DEATH INCARNATE" 08:34:24 ...I just heard the Ontological Argument for god... 08:34:58 ...wat 08:39:55 Wait, it was Anselm 08:40:18 Wait.. 09:32:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:40:24 ...can we say "paper authorizes removal of rock" from now on? Please? 09:41:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:42:24 Maybe you can say that to your Twitter account. 09:50:48 yeah fuck you we don't want your bureaucracy 09:57:04 -!- carado has joined. 10:28:42 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:28:51 izalove: But it's so much less stupid than "paper covers rock" 10:38:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:40:12 -!- Alcest has joined. 10:47:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:52:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:00:31 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:01:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:14:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:16:20 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:34:45 -!- boily has joined. 11:45:52 wisdom 11:45:58 finland//Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 11:53:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:17:25 The pirated His Dark Materials I'm ræding appears to be OCRd 12:17:42 So a lot of words are misspelled by the computer 12:18:58 With )s where there should be js and all the æs are just aes 12:19:04 And ø became o 12:19:06 Very sad 12:21:46 hppavellœn[1]. you couldn't get a printed copy? 12:24:05 boily: Not on short notice, but I will if I can 12:24:30 boily: And I need the UK editions, as the US editions are edited to remove objectionable content 12:24:34 Which I find objectionable 12:24:54 Removed objectionable content is ALWAYS more objectionable than the original content 12:26:21 It's 03:30 here 12:26:24 I have school tomorrow 12:26:28 Can't sleep 12:27:47 ah, school... 12:28:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DIGRAPH CHICKEN). 12:35:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:38:00 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 12:38:24 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest52456. 12:38:33 -!- Guest52456 has quit (Changing host). 12:38:33 -!- Guest52456 has joined. 12:38:37 -!- Guest52456 has changed nick to JX7P. 12:53:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:18:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:26:53 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:43:09 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:43:11 moo 13:44:34 -!- ^_^v has joined. 13:50:02 wb ^_^v 13:50:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:56:26 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:04:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:05:27 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:31:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:32:19 -!- Kaynato has joined. 14:37:33 -!- ^_^v has joined. 14:42:00 * int-e slaps Tristan with 0.83 trouts and 0.17 blunt instruments 14:42:02 uhm 14:42:18 moo 14:44:17 (simple typing error: this channel is assigned F10; the messages was for a channel that I have assigned F11 to) 15:15:27 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49850&oldid=49832 * Moon * (-4) 15:17:25 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:18:29 My new home keyboard has arrived. 15:18:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:18:42 I'm typing from it now. I'm still not completely used to it. 15:18:56 It's a heavy and loud mechanical keyboard. 15:19:08 * moonythedwarf gives Bowserinator a cookie for helping a lazy programmmer implent Gravbox 15:19:24 x/buffer 6 15:19:31 (WD AULA blue springs keyboard for the record) 15:19:53 Very different feeling from all previous keyboards I've used. 15:27:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:36:19 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 15:37:48 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 15:51:16 @tell hppavilion[1] There are prepositions and postpositions, but what about inpositions? circumpositions? <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition#Classification_by_position inpositions sound suitably weird for a conlang. 15:51:16 Consider it noted. 15:52:40 i know people who did a language solely based on inposition on a pizza brrak for a role playing game race 15:53:29 myname: like M:tG? 15:55:58 how is m:tg anything like an rpg? 15:57:04 no no 15:57:32 M:tG was invented as a quick game you could play in idle times of role playing 15:57:45 (it was duels only then) 15:57:52 myname: maybe they read "role" as "rule" :-P 16:11:55 @src == 16:11:55 x == y = not (x /= y) 16:12:08 @src /= 16:12:08 x /= y = not (x == y) 16:12:16 known fact 16:12:43 * moonythedwarf is confused 16:12:56 @src > 16:12:56 x > y = case compare x y of 16:12:56 GT -> True 16:12:56 _ -> False 16:12:57 why? 16:13:09 == uses /= and /= uses == 16:13:24 if you want to implement Eq for your class, you just need to overwrite one 16:13:35 i didnt, i was just curious. 16:13:36 and the other will automatically fit due default definition 16:16:15 @src Eq 16:16:15 class Eq a where 16:16:15 (==), (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool 16:19:50 @src [] == 16:19:50 Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 16:19:56 @src == [] 16:19:56 Source not found. 16:19:58 :( 16:20:08 huh? 16:20:10 hm, i guess that's just the default derived one 16:20:28 myname: @src has some specific method sources too 16:20:34 @src Maybe >>= 16:20:34 Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 16:20:40 @src >>= Maybe 16:20:40 Source not found. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. 16:20:46 or USED TO, anyway. 16:21:00 @src (>>=) Maybe 16:21:00 Source not found. Where did you learn to type? 16:21:01 @src Maybe 16:21:01 data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a 16:21:10 @src Maybe (>>=) 16:21:10 (Just x) >>= k = k x 16:21:10 Nothing >>= _ = Nothing 16:21:13 ah there 16:21:25 stupid parenthesis and _order_ sensitivity 16:21:31 *_and_ order 16:22:06 int-e: any chance of making parentheses irrelevant in @src lookups twh 16:22:30 this time, i tried all three wrong combinations first 16:22:49 I don't know 16:24:14 @src (>) 16:24:14 x > y = case compare x y of 16:24:14 GT -> True 16:24:14 _ -> False 16:24:37 in that case, it already is, but not for looking up instance methods 16:24:58 I don't know what the lookup looks like 16:25:05 @src Maybe (>>=) 16:25:05 Source not found. Do you think like you type? 16:25:10 @src Maybe(>>=) 16:25:10 Source not found. I feel much better now. 16:25:13 @src Maybe (>>=) 16:25:13 (Just x) >>= k = k x 16:25:13 Nothing >>= _ = Nothing 16:25:38 probably just a blind lookup into a Data.Map, and then again with parentheses around everything 16:25:45 +.Map 16:26:52 ah 16:31:39 37 fetch x m = M.lookup x m mplus 16:31:39 38 M.lookup (P.concat [P.singleton '(', x, P.singleton ')']) m 16:31:43 checks out 16:33:39 -!- nycs has joined. 16:33:44 -!- ^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:34:29 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to Eq. 16:34:41 -!- Eq has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 16:39:38 -!- JX7P has quit (Quit: Quit). 16:43:01 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:43:34 -!- ^_^v has joined. 16:44:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:46:21 -!- irctc246 has joined. 16:49:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:54:09 @src ^>> 16:54:09 f ^>> a = arr f >>> a 16:55:23 @src second 16:55:23 Source not found. Just try something else. 16:55:39 @src second f = arr swap >>> first f >>> arr swap 16:55:39 where swap ~(x,y) = (y,x) 16:55:42 -!- irctc246 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:55:52 int-e: there are some bugs in the source file... 16:56:09 (the above is because second is missing its key line) 17:05:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:22 <\oren\> man i got used to looking at the borders of eastern europe in HOI4 and now maps of europe as it is today look wrong 17:06:26 <\oren\> like, hungary doesn't border ukraine, what happended? 17:07:11 <\oren\> like what happened to the end of slovakia where id wraps arond hungary 17:09:22 <\oren\> and poland is entirely too far to the west now 17:10:01 \oren\: they lost a war hth 17:11:02 <\oren\> and poland no longer even has a border with latvia 17:11:32 \oren\: basically russia got to keep their spoils from the molotov-ribbentrop pact, while germany were forced to compensate them for poland 17:11:45 *the soviet union 17:12:52 <\oren\> i see, and russia also took some of slovakia and romania as well 17:12:58 \oren\: what's HOI4? and why doesn't Hungary border Ukraine? 17:13:03 I don't understand this 17:13:35 <\oren\> Hearts of Iron 4. it's a war game that starts in 1936 17:13:41 wob_jonas: It's that game, I see people talk... right. 17:13:46 ah 17:13:51 <\oren\> so I'm now more used to seeing the old borders 17:15:10 -!- Kaynato has joined. 17:15:22 <\oren\> I played as hungary last night, and I took austria before hitler had a chance to do Anschluss and take it 17:16:15 <\oren\> the german AI doesn't seem to do very well in that situation 17:17:12 @src ,) (<*> 17:17:12 (u, f) <*> (v, x) = (u mappend v, f x) 17:17:31 <\oren\> but now I saw a picture of europe in a news story and it looked completely wrong 17:19:05 <\oren\> why is poland so small!?!? why is germany shaped like a peanut? 17:19:46 <\oren\> and what the heck happened to yugoslavia? 17:22:49 <\oren\> i guess it fell apart as soon as they lost tito. 17:34:22 oerjan: I knew something like that was going to happen 17:38:07 int-e: don't accept yet, i'm making an amendment for Source.hs 17:40:57 \oren\: I'm not used to 1936 maps, but I am used to 1900 maps, so I always find it strange that there are seven independent countries instead of Yugoslavia 17:42:17 Not that I'm not glad that the war ended, but the map looks so strange. 17:42:31 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:43:18 -!- Guest22110 has joined. 17:44:46 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49851&oldid=49850 * Moon * (+2) fixed program. 17:47:33 * moonythedwarf gives Bowserinator a giant cookie for implementing Gravbox 17:47:52 [wiki] [[Gravbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49852&oldid=49851 * Moon * (-2) Its now implented! :D 17:49:00 :D 17:49:25 Bowserinator: make a wiki account and put the SRC up somewhere. and then link to it. 17:49:27 -!- Guest22110 has quit (Changing host). 17:49:27 -!- Guest22110 has joined. 17:49:29 -!- Guest22110 has changed nick to JX7P. 17:56:29 hm travis 17:56:37 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:57:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:57:32 -!- Reece has joined. 18:01:52 @tell shachaf oerjan: Remind me why Belkar can float? <-- http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html 18:01:52 Consider it noted. 18:06:33 eep 18:06:54 seems oerjan forgot to pack some strings 18:07:13 oh 18:08:44 @messes-loud 18:08:44 oerjan said 6m 52s ago: oerjan: Remind me why Belkar can float? <-- http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html 18:09:17 Ah, right. 18:09:23 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:09:34 oerjan: thx tdh 18:10:48 yw 18:17:57 oh that went a lot faster 18:18:23 ah, good, second travis build was faster 18:19:14 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:25:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:25:42 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:33:33 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:35:23 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:44:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:45:12 -!- JX7P has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:45:30 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 18:45:53 -!- IRIXUser has quit (Changing host). 18:45:53 -!- IRIXUser has joined. 18:45:54 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to JX7P. 18:47:08 is there a 2 dimensional "regexp" language? got to thinking the other day about how you might make text-based GUIs with a kind of 2-dimensional sed 18:47:44 have a look at "picture languages" 18:48:20 myname: ooh, thanks 18:57:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:16:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:24:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:25:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:29:05 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 19:31:19 quote invisible 19:31:28 35) With enough crappiness a display can show you invisible pink unicorns. \ 997) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 19:31:55 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 19:32:15 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:32:18 I mean 1990 maps obviously. 19:32:25 is fungot here? 19:33:03 Apparently not. 19:33:35 -!- fungot has joined. 19:33:37 fizzie: May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES. 19:33:45 Thanks, I guess. 19:34:24 hm 19:34:31 May you live in DIVISION TIMES. 19:34:41 keyboard 19:34:47 / keyboard 19:34:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /: Is a directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /: cannot execute: Is a directory 19:34:50 ? keyboard 19:34:51 keyboard? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:35:00 fizzie: May you live in TIMES WITH LEFT HALF BLACK. 19:35:28 These are great. 19:36:15 May you live in CUNEIFORM SIGN EZEN TIMES A PLUS LAL TIMES LAL. 19:36:23 whoa, ⨋ 19:36:57 what does that even mean 19:37:04 not sure 19:37:07 but i want to use it 19:37:28 ⨋_i i*x dx 19:38:34 \oren\: Working on my absurdly inflective language 19:38:40 @messages-loud 19:38:40 oerjan said 3h 47m 24s ago: There are prepositions and postpositions, but what about inpositions? circumpositions? <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_and_postposition# 19:38:40 Classification_by_position inpositions sound suitably weird for a conlang. 19:39:22 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:39:48 \oren\: For time, I currently have 5 tenses (including null tense) and 4 types of aspect (progression, perfection, evitability, and forcing) 19:40:21 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to otherbot. 19:40:26 FINITE PART INTEGRAL [⨍] 19:40:39 what about suppositions... they are nasty because they don't appear anywhere in the text. 19:40:42 -!- otherbot has changed nick to jeffbot. 19:41:11 -!- jeffbot has changed nick to Guest60464. 19:41:19 int-e: Sometimes they appear in superscript. 19:41:27 -!- Guest60464 has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:42:11 hmm, dinnerscript 19:43:32 -!- ybden has changed nick to vmunix. 19:43:40 int-e: nah, that's called a dinner menu. you know the Larry Wall saying, the script is what you give to the actors, the program is what you give to the audience. 19:43:59 int-e: Can I get dinnerscript at a dinerscript? 19:44:06 wob_jonas: you missed a pun there, I think. 19:44:14 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to jefl35. 19:44:20 -!- jefl35 has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 19:44:40 (hint, because maybe it's just too awful: supper is a meal) 19:44:44 2A75 TWO CONSECUTIVE EQUALS SIGNS [⩵] 19:44:48 2A76 THREE CONSECUTIVE EQUALS SIGNS [⩶] 19:45:12 oh, as in supperscript 19:45:16 APPROXIMATELY EQUAL OR EQUAL TO [⩰] 19:45:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:45:29 -!- trn has joined. 19:46:32 does the saying about exclamation marks also apply to equality signs? 19:46:54 issupper(meal) 19:47:26 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 19:47:42 -!- Melvar has joined. 19:48:26 Though apparently Pratchett's threshold was five: "Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." 19:50:08 five? whew 19:50:13 so four is safe 20:00:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:20:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:21:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:43:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:43:15 @messa? 20:43:15 Unknown command, try @list 20:43:17 @messag? 20:43:17 Maybe you meant: messages? messages 20:43:24 oh come on :-P 20:43:26 @messagess? 20:43:26 Sorry, no messages today. 20:43:55 poor ais523 :'( 20:44:04 @tell ais523 It's okay. Have a message. 20:44:04 Consider it noted. 20:44:06 Do you want a message and/or a hug? 20:44:13 I'm OK with not having messages 20:44:13 I do1 20:44:24 less OK with lambdabot's persistent inability to understand my question 20:44:56 I'm not sentient you know? 20:45:12 Do you know how lambdabot command correction works? 20:45:39 Your string has to be either a prefix of a command or within edit distance 2 of a command. 20:46:07 I figured it was using edit distance 2 after the first two requests 20:46:20 just think that a deletion should count as less than a substitution, especially given how unlikely ? is as a typo for s 20:46:32 we need some sort of edit distance that takes qwerty into account 20:46:44 oh, the @messag? was ambiguous. 20:46:52 @botsnack 20:46:52 :) 20:47:02 @uptime 20:47:02 uptime: 6d 11m 11s, longest uptime: 1m 12d 14h 14m 14s 20:47:11 are there any esolangs which care about qwerty layout? 20:47:16 as in, not just inspired by it 20:47:21 but the key layout actually has a semantic effect? 20:47:31 (e.g. BF with q w e r t y u i as the commands doesn't count) 20:48:24 ais523: would something that is controlled by ykulnjbh or qwedcxza or wdsa or esdx or jkli count? 20:48:41 like, if it was directions in esolang, not in a game 20:48:54 IIUC, a 2d language that uses qweadzxc for nw,n,ne,w,e,sw,s,se movements would qualify? 20:48:55 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:49:16 uh 20:49:24 being redundant, as usual. 20:49:41 I'm not qure I'd allow wasd-alikes to count because it's just syntax 20:50:09 I'm wondering if there's some way to make it semantically relevant 20:50:12 wait... you want something that's not just syntax/ 20:50:14 well, what else would it be... permuting letters is just a syntactic change after all 20:50:15 how would that work? 20:50:18 wob_jonas: I don't know 20:50:30 just brainstorming 20:50:54 something like "commands can only mention more than one variable if their names are adjacent on the keyboard" 20:51:12 So any change of the keyboard layout is just a syntactic change, as far as I can make out. Unless you want an interpreter that actually queries what the current keyboard layout is and changes semantics based on that? 20:51:20 (who needs portability?) 20:51:25 like brainfuck where you move between variables near each other? 20:51:55 wob_jonas: sort of 20:52:13 say you can only do commands like "g = h + y" (because those keys form a triangle so you can mention all three variables in the same statement) 20:52:22 ideally we'd need a way to make the restriction actually matter though 20:57:00 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 21:05:30 -!- Reece has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:16:20 -!- vmunix has changed nick to ybden. 21:20:44 * moonythedwarf gives haskell a bear hug for being so amazing 21:21:33 -!- Kaynato has joined. 21:30:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:30:50 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:52:07 -!- daddle has joined. 21:52:13 -!- daddle has left. 21:52:15 -!- JX7P has left ("Leaving"). 21:56:08 ? longcat 21:56:10 longcat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:56:13 ? ceiling cat 21:56:15 ceiling cat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:58:25 -!- MDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:58:56 ? copycat 21:58:57 copycat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:03:34 [wiki] [[Talk:SPAM/1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49853&oldid=38765 * Zzo38 * (+697) 22:12:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:13:10 ? cat 22:13:11 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 22:13:17 true 22:13:25 cwlprits cat 22:13:27 fizzie evilipse int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Roujo 22:13:39 dowg cat 22:13:40 how does that differ from culprits? 22:13:40 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25  chmod 777 / -R \ 2015-08-13 revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 2015-08-12 echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2013-08-29 echo Cats are cool, but should be illegal. > wisdom/cat 22:13:46 ais523: Prepends wisdom/ 22:13:53 aha 22:14:20 Wasn't there a version of dowg that showed older entries first? 22:14:25  rgrep -li tac bin 22:14:30 bin/ploki \ bin/udcli \ bin/emmental \ bin/luac \ bin/macro \ bin/multicode \ bin/jq \ bin/seens \ bin/¿ \ bin/searchlog \ bin/gs2.py \ bin/7za \ bin/lua \ bin/tclkit \ bin/shove \ bin/units 22:15:04 Hmm, I want to call it rowg. But that's ambiguous between dowg and howg 22:15:17  cat bin/{h,d}owg 22:15:17 hoag "wisdom/1" \ doag "wisdom/1" 22:36:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:46:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:58:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:03:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:04:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:10:23 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:13:08 -!- burden-- has joined. 23:31:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:33:39 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:35:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 2016-10-04: 00:04:26 -!- adu has joined. 00:11:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:15:16 Huh. 00:15:27 Ada Lovelace was the (legitimate) offspring of Lord Byron 00:15:33 The Epitaph to a Dog guy. 00:15:35 Cool. 00:29:33 -!- boily has joined. 00:29:44 wisdom 00:29:45 caps lock//CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES 00:37:27 -!- MDude has joined. 00:37:51 fungot: is CAO down? 00:37:52 boily: a. i don't think i answer those, ihope. i yield to you. 00:37:58 -!- MDead has joined. 00:37:59 fungot: damn. 00:37:59 boily: i just don't like how... weird... and doesn't make a difference yes? says who??? fnord ( car list) 00:38:13 fungot: well, I like that server. that's the closest one. 00:38:13 boily: i dont think i have now spend more time typing than thinking, i'm doing work"? i'm impressed if you think about this in the mzscheme compiler manual 00:38:57 fungot: no, I think in French. messemble que depuis le temps c't'assez évident... 00:38:57 boily: laml is neat, kipple, axo,...? yeah, i think. 00:39:14 fungot: no, a kipple is not French hth 00:39:56 -!- MDude has quit (Client Quit). 00:40:03 -!- MDead has quit (Client Quit). 00:40:27 -!- MDude has joined. 00:41:12 “It's not just you! http://crawl.akrasiac.org looks down from here.” thanks downforeveryoneorjustme.com! 00:41:41 boily: is "chicken" several of "chicke"? 00:42:26 -!- super_bender has joined. 00:42:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:43:30 hppavellon[1]. no, it undergoes vowel-mutation. singular is checkan. 00:43:32 -!- super_bender has quit (Client Quit). 00:43:38 hellørjan! do you mutate? 00:43:46 boily: Ah, but what's the dual? 00:43:56 chickenayim. 00:43:59 helloily! constantly! 00:44:06 very slowly, though. 00:44:16 . o O ( there seems to be a pun in there, but where... ) 00:44:34 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 00:44:36 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( We need an enhanced plural schema for english with distinct rules for infinite cardinals ) 00:44:55 it wasn't conscious, but _maybe_ you could say "constant" is the opposite of "mutating". 00:45:41 English also needs indefinite form- not singular or plural or dual; no grammatical number at all 00:46:24 So, like, if the schema is +ae, the indefinite of dog would be dogae, which means 1 (or should it be 0?) or more dog(s) 00:47:21 modified english is the brainfuck derivative of conlangs hth 00:51:20 except it's less easy to implement 00:52:05 that said, surprisingly many BF derivatives have non-nesting [] because the author couldn't figure out how to implement them 00:52:26 (in at least one case, this is for a good reason as the derivative was created to prove another language TC; it was replaced by a conditional goto) 00:54:05 which language is the most surprisingly TC? 00:54:23 oerjan: Well yeah... 00:54:47 boily: /// maybe? 00:55:08 (Oh my god #esoteric is discussing esolangs... weird...) 00:55:30 boily: Even better, which language is the most surprisingly ¬TC 00:57:13 oerjan: Though, I wasn't going for a conlang modifying english; more for making people use it under pain of glaring so it's just part of english 01:03:18 I want to create a company for which the name violates English order of adjectives... 01:03:45 @ssages? 01:03:45 Sorry, no messages today. 01:03:52 ais523: ^ >:) 01:04:02 that's cheating :-P 01:04:56 @messes? 01:04:56 Sorry, no messages today. 01:05:12 10:08 @messes-loud 01:05:30 @messages- 01:05:30 You don't have any messages 01:05:39 shachaf: FAIL 01:06:02 (i assume we're golfing) 01:06:19 Golfing what? 01:06:26 lambdabot commands 01:06:26 That question made no sense. 01:06:37 It was obvious what you were golfing. 01:07:02 I don't know why I wrote it. 01:07:06 The point was I wasn't golfing. 01:07:26 15:53:17 @messageese-loud 01:07:56 @messages-lousy 01:07:56 You don't have any messages 01:12:09 * boily needs his dose of crawl, fungot it! 01:14:36 Man, I love ///. 01:15:40 fungot? 01:15:40 oerjan: four files: fnord, which might be very sensitive to medications). 01:16:10 fungot: has boily been overusing you 01:16:10 oerjan: scheme48 has immutable objects in general. i'm spending a lot of work 01:17:09 @@ @messages- 01:17:09 Plugin compose' failed with: user error (Unknown command: "messages-") 01:17:14 * boily pokes fungot 01:17:14 boily: would you /please/ stop playing with me... i am not sure whether they're _required_ to have constant time.... 01:17:23 BWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH :D 01:17:42 definitely overused. 01:20:32 Say. 01:20:53 Y'all know about MegaHAL. It's that one chatterbot you can download and play with, that was created in 1998. 01:21:29 Is there a more modern chatterbot that you can also download and train and run locally? 01:22:00 fungot hth 01:22:00 oerjan: someone drank all the milk again, have you got any nice stuff :) forthers would say that the branches are mutually exclusive sounds more restrictive than doing the 32-bit math in the first 01:22:26 fungot: i have coke zero 01:22:27 oerjan: i'm sure you can try ideologies, but be extremely rigid on the ones where you press combinations of keys are mutually exclusive in style. 01:23:15 fungot: I make a mean Hong Kong style milk tea, if you want to stay awake for the next 12 hours. 01:23:15 boily: it's so straight-forward i'm not even in that movie a dozen times. always the same. i think his solution is quite workable for individual use or in other words 01:24:49 welcome back, fungot 01:24:49 wob_jonas: or maybe ,trace fnord/ fnord/ images/ fnord 01:25:02 shachaf: btw i made hurl hth 01:25:11 ? hurl 01:25:12 hurl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:25:39 cat bin/hurl 01:25:40 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ 01:25:44 hurl hurl hur 01:26:01 doag bin/hurl 01:26:04 2016-10-02  cp bin/{,h}url; sed -i \'11s/file/log/\' bin/hurl 01:26:07 it is the same as url except for a single word 01:26:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:26:37 url bin/hurl 01:26:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/hurl 01:26:48 hurl bin/url 01:26:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/tip/bin/url 01:27:33 are you invalidating all my dog work 01:28:23 does a pooch have the Buddha-nature? 01:28:25 shachaf: not necessarily. sometimes the log for a file is a bit too long to browse on irc, is all. 01:28:49 also the web browser seems to leave out obvious edits :( 01:28:53 are you invalidating all my dog work and all my spam work 01:29:16 YES BECAUSE I'M EVIL *MWAHAHAHA* 01:29:28 (sometimes you can't win so better go for the carnage) 01:29:42 \texrb *\rainbow{MWAHAHAHA}* 01:29:45 oops 01:29:47 * ybden plays with fungot 01:29:47 ybden: a very general answer; i'm looking for one that's simple to understand. 01:29:53 that's embarrassing 01:29:55 *MWAHAHAHA* 01:30:22 * ybden plays with fungot some more 01:30:22 ybden: probably someone's done one already 01:30:29 fungot: done one what? 01:30:29 ybden: " reiserfs the file system to die for! and especially to evaluate in your head, everywhere you need to duplicate the lines then. sorry, once again we return to a non-extended one would wipe away the original text :) 01:30:44 D: it was indeed a file system to die for, for some 01:31:02 fungot: you say some worrying things 01:31:02 ybden: oh, i'm just a coop stuck with the lamest parts of the pre-scheme source code for it 01:31:09 fungot: I see. 01:31:30 *silence* 01:33:02 ybdellon. once you reach the fungothreshold, he won't answer to you. somebody else has to summon him between runs. 01:33:02 boily: that was fast. almost at fnord packing up. hrmph.), sieni_. would you refer to is all part of the set! 01:33:45 Hmm, I want to call it rowg. But that's ambiguous between dowg and howg <-- drwg hth 01:34:01 oerjan: But that doesn't sound like "rogue". 01:34:58 shocking 01:39:38 fungot: are you a MegaHAL? 01:39:39 tswett: mmm sounds like it involves robotic breasts. college of engineering. 01:40:19 this bot is getting better and better every day 01:41:39 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:41:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:42:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:42:24 fungot, are you improving? 01:42:25 wob_jonas: 1 gregorr: bf8 isn't harmfull 01:42:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 01:43:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:43:21 Challenge: Produce a mathematical generalization of the 12 days of christmas 01:44:48 a for loop...? 01:45:16 fungot: uhm... you want to have, robotic breasts? 01:45:16 boily: then it rejects all functions that don't return, tco falls into place, though. do you plan to support paredit.el for xemacs as well? 01:47:23 izalove: No? 01:49:17 two nested for loops? 01:49:28 -!- adu has joined. 01:50:55 izalove: I'm looking for a generalization 01:53:49 what does that mean? 01:54:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: QUANDARY CHICKEN.). 01:56:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:57:21 hppavilion[1]! 01:57:29 adu! 01:58:06 I'm starting to hate LDAP 02:00:40 LDAP?? 02:01:30 yes 02:03:38 I need to organize the configuration of Servers, Flavors, Users, and Groups. 02:03:40 adu: What is LDAP 02:03:55 oh you don't know what it is 02:03:58 low density audio platform hth 02:04:14 "Lightweight Directory Access Protocol" 02:04:39 long and delicate pincers 02:06:17 shachaf: that's LADP 02:06:28 so it is 02:06:33 hppavilion[1]: are you a windows person? 02:06:41 are you a person? 02:06:44 Yes, unfortunately 02:06:50 izalove: THAT IS NOT YOUR DOMAIN TO KNOW 02:06:55 large distracted antwerp pooch 02:06:56 hppavilion[1]: ahh, then you might recognize "Active Directory" 02:06:59 * moonythedwarf runs around in circles 02:07:54 list detected active protocols 02:09:30 How to troll brits with numbers: Follow these rules: (1) If '0' is 'oh', then 1 is 'el', 5 is 'es'; say 'single oh' every time there's a zero (along with 'double oh'); express everything as its prime factorization 02:09:35 long distance argumentative parrot 02:10:05 hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with Active Directory? 02:10:07 That sounds like a good post for your Twitter account. 02:10:09 Nope 02:10:20 shachaf: I got blocked because I look like a bot, remember 02:10:26 hppavilion[1]: are you familiar with the concept of a "User" 02:10:34 adu: Yes. 02:10:40 Wouldn't it be great if C# supported generic generic parameters? 02:10:41 Should I just google LDAP? 02:10:46 hppavilion[1]: LDAP is a "User" Database 02:10:48 And so you continue the same behavior in IRC? 02:10:58 OK, I think I get it 02:11:01 shachaf: ...yes? 02:11:06 * moonythedwarf sends hppavilion[1] around in circles 02:11:09 :, 02:11:14 *:,( 02:11:23 public abstract class Monad> { public abstract M Join(M> input); ... } 02:11:52 You're ...ing return because you can't type it? 02:12:34 public abstract M Return(T input); 02:12:48 Serious question: Is there an equivalent to the FLA for HCNs? 02:13:10 (e.g. "all numbers can be expressed as a quotient of HCNs") 02:13:27 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:14:22 * tswett looks up what that stuff is on Wikipedia. 02:14:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_composite_number 02:14:35 By FLA, do you mean the Fundamental Theory of Arithmetic? 02:16:17 . o O ( /kickban hppavilion[1] Obvious bot ) 02:16:30 tswett: Theorem, but yes 02:17:20 Fundamental Law of Arithmetic, surely 02:17:47 The theorem is this: The positive naturals are a free commutative monoid generated by the primes under multiplication. 02:17:51 Oops, my fallibility is showing. 02:18:24 shachaf: damn it. I read as far as "the theorem is this" and decided to one-up you by giving *my* favorite statement of the theorem... 02:18:45 What is your statement, then? 02:19:03 And then I realized that what you said *is* my favorite statement (more or less). 02:19:16 OK 02:19:29 Here's how I like to phrase it: 02:19:46 "The commutative monoid of the positive integers under multiplication is a free commutative monoid." 02:20:14 Same thing, really. 02:20:48 Maybe I should have moved "under multiplication" nine words earlier. 02:22:21 I left out "generated by the primes" because you can just define the primes as being the generators. 02:22:48 You mean you can figure it out. 02:23:01 But the point of the theorem is that it's what you get after you figure it out. 02:24:24 shachaf: Oh, yes, FTA 02:24:46 tswett: You can fix that by becoming pope 02:25:04 Another thing I thought of offhand today: orders of composite numbers 02:25:12 I guess what I'm unintentionally suggesting is that you could first prove the FTA, and then use the FTA to define the prime numbers. 02:25:20 A first-order composite number is a prime number (...yeah, sorry) 02:25:40 "The positive integers under multiplication are a free commutative monoid. Define the prime numbers as the generators of this monoid." 02:25:43 Certainly, if you generate a free monoid from a countably infinite set, what you get is isomorphic to the positive naturals under multiplication. 02:25:45 An nth-order composite number is an (n-1)th-order composite number times a first-order composite number 02:26:08 But if you already know the positive naturals, and you already know the primes, then telling you that those primes in particular generate the positive naturals is pretty good. 02:26:13 hppavilion[1]: so an nth-order composite number is a number with exactly n prime factors? 02:26:33 (this is equivalent to saying that the composite order of a number is the cardinality of the bag of its prime factors) 02:26:36 tswett: Yes 02:26:39 Yeah, that. 02:27:53 Hm, is there a prime factorial function? Or, more accurately, there is a prime factorial function, but does it have any use? 02:27:54 x‽ = product({p : p ≤ x, p in |P}) 02:28:11 I think that's called the primorial function. 02:28:26 tswett: Really or in an #esoteric way? 02:28:34 Huh, yep 02:28:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial 02:28:47 Sylvan Primordial 02:28:58 "In general for a positive integer n {\displaystyle n} n, a primorial n # {\displaystyle n\#} {\displaystyle n\#} can also be defined, namely as the product of those primes ≤ n {\displaystyle n} n:" 02:29:03 I apologize for the wonky copy-paste. 02:29:43 hppavilion[1]: hey, I have a random question for you. 02:29:54 tswett: You may proceed 02:30:11 hppavilion[1]: do you have any thoughts as to where you want to start your career? 02:30:20 Like, software development, mathematics research, something else? 02:30:26 That question has a rather big assumption, doesn't it? 02:30:33 NO idea 02:31:15 shachaf: that hppavilion[1] wants to have a career? 02:31:24 I don't even know what a career is. 02:32:10 There's more potential for success in private sector dev, but I'm drawn to academics on... almost moral grounds 02:32:15 i,i not a career in the world 02:32:32 Your sense of morality has already been established to be very suspect. 02:32:43 hppavilion[1]: I kind of feel like I'm doomed to eventually go to grad school. 02:32:44 shachaf: Excellent 02:32:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iovoid * New user account 02:33:01 Uh oh. 02:33:04 (Also, I want to be Dr. Naþan, so...) 02:33:12 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:33:44 hppavilion[1]: I think my industry experience is going to be really valuable if I ever want to do business-oriented research. 02:33:55 Yep 02:34:14 It's easier to design a business-oriented programming language if you have experience doing business-oriented programming.. 02:34:55 (Apparently there are two conflicting definitions of primorial- one is what I said above, the other is the product of the first n primes. I'm already developing strong opinions on it.) 02:37:27 -!- adu has joined. 02:43:47 hppavilion[1]: I know. The primorial function should be a function PrimeCut -> N, where PrimeCut is the collection of all downward closed sets of prime numbers. 02:51:18 oerjan: whoa whoa whoa, norway doesn't even have a legal minimum wage 02:52:08 neither does italy 02:53:07 I think it is OK a minimum wage should not be needed 02:53:19 shachaf: see, your minimum wage is only a half-assed compensation for the fact you don't have properly powerful labor unions hth 02:53:43 oerjan: the government is the most powerful labor union of all hth 02:53:47 except it's not very good 02:53:51 at labor unioning 02:55:07 it doesn't count as a labor union if the employers have more say than the laborers hth 02:56:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:10:37 what if british banks have the most say 03:10:43 does it count as a libor union 03:11:19 oerjan: do you think the us minimum wage should be raised 03:12:03 my prejudices say yes. 03:12:15 my actual knowledge is insufficient hth 03:12:29 I know that I decided to do some amateur economics that's probably terrible in the wake of Brexit 03:13:05 and concluded that in response to Brexit, the UK minimum wage should probably be increased, with a reduction in corporation tax to compensate 03:13:18 then I was surprised to see that many actual economists had come to the same conclusion 03:13:23 oerjan: what do you think about the tipped employee minimum wage exception 03:13:44 scowissimus hth 03:14:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:14:02 shachaf: I think it's ridiculous, I don't like the idea of peoples' livelihoods depending on customs rather than actual rules 03:14:12 anyway it doesn't apply in california 03:14:23 in the UK, tipping at restaurants is rare apart from very high-end ones 03:14:39 like, if someone takes your order while you're seated, then later physically delivers your food 03:14:43 it doesn't directly depend on custom though 03:14:43 tipping would be usual 03:14:45 even where it does apply, the minimum wage is the lower bound, with the employer having to pay the difference if necessary 03:14:53 ^ 03:15:00 that said, the US minimum wage is a joke 03:15:03 but it's still scow 03:15:17 ais523: How did you come to that conclusion? 03:15:17 would you star a repo called silver-giggle? 03:15:20 on github 03:15:38 you wouldn't star a scow 03:15:53 i'm wondering how popular i'd be if i created repos with the names github suggested 03:16:15 ais523: I'm headed to England for the weeked (... stupid, I know), is tipping like that only for high end restaurants, or just anywhere where there is sit-down service? 03:16:32 (fwiw I have stopped tipping at restaurants that do not offer full sit-down service. I feel the need to draw the line) 03:16:52 so many places have started asking for tips because it's just a configuration option on the credit card machine 03:17:09 alercah: has to be fairly high-end 03:17:24 also the usual tip is approximately 10% but it's common to round it so that the total price paid is a round number 03:17:30 -!- encodingcollecto has joined. 03:17:35 so it might be 9% or 11% depending on the exact price of the meal 03:17:58 I think in the US the standard restaurant tip is ~20%. 03:18:56 (nobody would be annoyed if you didn't round it; it's just usual to do so) 03:19:31 The UK minimum wage seems to be higher than the US's but lower than California's. Of course it's hard to compare these things. 03:19:43 My impression of UK software engineer wages was that they're very low compared to the US, but I don't know whether that's true. 03:19:43 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49854&oldid=49847 * Iovoid * (+222) 03:19:51 Maybe comparing to silly valley is unfair. 03:20:32 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49855 * Iovoid * (+1151) Created page for VoidLang 03:20:40 it is, partly because silicon valley wages are high due to living costs 03:20:55 (seriously, try adjusting the wages for cost of living and, while still quite high, they are far more reasonable) 03:21:16 shachaf: here, the standard tip is 15-20% depending who you ask 03:21:22 but traditionally this is on the pre-tax price 03:21:34 nowadays the credit card machines do it for you, but they apply it to the total prie 03:21:41 Well, if wages scale linearly with cost of living, then it makes sense to live in the most expensive place you can find. 03:21:43 so a lot of people started tipping more without knowing it 03:22:34 scow stipping 03:22:45 yeah tipping is dumb 03:22:49 just kill it 03:22:51 outlaw it 03:22:57 so is cow tipping 03:24:15 Well, if wages scale linearly with cost of living, then it makes sense to live in the most expensive place you can find. ← that might explain London :-P 03:24:45 London has a semi-serious issue in that housing there is in such high demand for people who work high-paying jobs in the captial 03:24:53 is London more expensive than the san franciscow bay area? 03:25:24 that all the people who work support jobs, people like shelf stackers and doctors and the like, can't afford to live there on their smaller salaries 03:26:12 london is probably less expensive than san fransisco 03:26:18 but it's basically like a transport/housing black hole 03:26:32 Do UK doctors make much less money than US doctors? I think I might've heard someone say that once. 03:26:33 a house anywhere where it's possible to commute to London to do a job is more expensive as a result 03:26:40 even if the commute is ridiculous 03:26:50 How much is typical London rent? 03:27:39 average price to buy for a flat is £494,329 03:27:43 it's harder to figure out the renting value 03:27:52 @google 494329 GBP in USD 03:27:53 No Result Found. 03:27:58 That used to work. 03:28:03 San Francisco is the most expensive housing in the world IIRC 03:28:10 SF refuses to permit densification 03:28:15 That's pretty expensive, but it would be quite cheap in San Francisco. 03:28:28 so the prices are skyrocketing because the supply is limited by the arbitrary rules about how high you can build 03:29:25 it seems like most rental prices in London are in the £1000-2000 range 03:29:35 per month, that is 03:30:24 and £12000 per year is a plausible salary for someone's first job after graduating university 03:30:51 That seems like practically minimum wage. 03:30:59 I think a 1-bedroom apartment in Berkeley, where I live, would be in that range. 03:31:03 well a huge proportion of the country goes to university 03:31:14 Probably toward the mid-upper end of the range unless you get a cheap one? 03:31:50 minimum wage in the UK varies by age: for 21-24 year olds it's £6.95 03:31:54 per hour 03:31:55 Does anything support the "Accept-Features" HTTP header? 03:32:22 at 40 hours per week for 45 weeks, that's £12510 03:32:22 i,i Accept-Features: Accept-Features 03:32:46 wow, no wonder early graduate employment is in a mess 03:33:56 also, apprentices only have to be paid £3.40 per hour in the first year of their apprenticeship, that seems very low 03:34:02 https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates for anyone who wants to look up the numbers 03:34:17 ais523: it's also 50 weeks on this continent 03:34:47 I was guessing at the amount of holiday allowance 03:35:04 also, the amount of time spent looking for jobs when one fixed-term job after another ends 03:35:16 (only slightly bitter about that…) 03:35:21 I've applied for a couple of jobs but haven't heard back for weeks 03:35:31 What sorts of jobs? 03:36:02 academic jobs, one in teaching, one in research 03:36:12 both fields where I have experience 03:37:29 ais523: do you not have public insurance for the in-between-jobs periods? 03:38:00 alercah: yes, but it comes with a huge number of restrictions 03:38:06 and the amount isn't that great 03:38:10 I was hoping to avoid it 03:38:21 but might be forced into it if the jobs take much longer 03:38:36 (one of the requirements is that you have to spend much of your time applying for jobs, including ones that are a terrible fit) 03:39:00 Why do you want to stay in Birmingham? 03:39:02 ahh, I believe that's not the case here; you are not expected to switch fields 03:39:26 also if you haven't heard back in weeks it's not unreasonable to follow up 03:39:49 shachaf: I'm really bad at travelling and living in unfamiliar places 03:39:51 I haven't moved house /ever/ 03:40:12 other people have moved out, but I just stayed 03:40:32 And you also don't want to become good at it? 03:40:36 and when I've been abroad for conferences and the like it's been terrible 03:40:45 why terrible? 03:40:50 lack of routine? 03:40:51 What an odd thing. My family moved around probably every few years when I was young. 03:41:23 alercah: sometimes I have problems doing even basic tasks in unfamiliar environments 03:41:38 I almost starved to death while in France because I have food intolerances and most of the food would have triggered one or another 03:41:45 oh, ouch :( 03:41:47 or, well, that's an exaggeration 03:41:55 I had enough food to live off but it was a very repetitive diet 03:41:57 I have enough food allergies that I understand what you mean 03:42:04 I basically lived off BLT sandwiches and crisps 03:42:26 I couldn't remember whether crisps are "chips" or "crackers". 03:42:29 I guess they're "chips". 03:42:35 yes 03:42:38 "potato chips" in US English, yes 03:43:02 poochtato 03:43:04 ais523: I think that it is something that takes getting used to 03:44:18 the other thing is that Birmingham is almost exactly the right size for me 03:44:29 that is a handy feature 03:44:31 it has a good variety of places within walking distance, for example 03:44:33 I wish KW were slightly larger 03:44:38 or more accurately 03:44:44 slightly more people in the same area 03:44:58 Kitchener-Waterloo? 03:45:20 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:45:48 San Francisco is so small. 03:46:00 It's not even the biggest city by population in the San Francisco Bay area. 03:46:50 Hm, I never really had that thought when I was there :) 03:47:05 (assuming you're talking about Kitchener-Waterloo) 03:48:17 kitchen 'er water loo? i 'ardly know 'er! 03:49:20 Maybe I should visit Toronto. 03:49:23 I hear it's a good place. 03:51:09 <\oren\> five hours till 10 AM in berlin 03:51:29 <\oren\> wikileaks approaching tick tock 03:51:35 Kitchener used to be called Berlin 03:51:54 Until 1916 03:52:54 [wiki] [[Black]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49856&oldid=49117 * Ais523 * (+156) /* C */ mirror of Blak 03:53:03 shachaf: yes, kitchener-waterloo 03:53:16 Cale: that KW could be denser? 03:53:21 ais523: Have you considered some sort of software type of job? I hear they're good. 03:53:37 (I'm not sure I actually hear that. I mostly hear people complaining about them.) 03:54:03 shachaf: considered it, yes 03:54:13 if the current jobs fall through then that's my fallback 03:57:19 I think I worked in the same building as Don Woods once. 03:57:26 But I suspect his job was not related to INTERCAL. 03:57:32 guess the next term 3 7 13 31 61 127 251 03:57:38 0 03:57:45 guess again 03:57:47 0 03:57:55 you're eliminated 03:58:07 hmm, let's let lambdabot have a guess 03:58:09 izalove: http://slbkbs.org/math-diff-2-4.txt hth 03:58:13 @oeis 3 7 13 31 61 127 251 03:58:14 https://oeis.org/A014234 Largest prime <= 2^n. 03:58:14 [2,3,7,13,31,61,127,251,509,1021,2039,4093,8191,16381,32749,65521,131071,262... 03:58:25 izalove: lambdabot guesses 509 03:58:41 how does lambdabot find it? 03:59:00 it's not even in the first page of results on oeis.org 03:59:03 basically it just searches in a huge database of sequences 03:59:29 i know what oeis is 03:59:37 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 56 78 90 03:59:37 Sequence not found. 03:59:40 Sure it is. 03:59:42 http://oeis.org/search?q=3%2C7%2C13%2C31%2C61%2C127%2C251 04:00:00 oh it works with commas 04:00:02 http://oeis.org/search?q=3%2C7%2C13%2C31%2C61%2C127%2C251&language=english&go=Search 04:00:09 right, commas 04:00:13 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 04:00:15 https://oeis.org/A035485 Card on top of deck at n-th stage of R. K. Guy's sh... 04:00:15 [1,2,3,1,6,5,9,1,4,2,16,10,12,14,23,16,18,20,17,27,30,33,38,10,14,37,32,6,11... 04:00:21 <\oren\> @oeis 12 34 56 04:00:22 https://oeis.org/A059805 Natural numbers written with digits grouped in pair... 04:00:22 [12,34,56,78,91,1,11,21,31,41,51,61,71,81,92,2,12,22,32,42,52,62,72,82,93,3,... 04:00:47 I was going to say, that sequence doesn't have an obvious way to continue indefinitely 04:00:52 but it looks like OEIS knew of one 04:00:53 @oeis 01 23 45 67 89 04:00:54 Sequence not found. 04:01:26 <\oren\> @oeis 3 1 4 1 5 04:01:39 https://oeis.org/A000796 Decimal expansion of Pi (or, digits of Pi). 04:01:39 [3,1,4,1,5,9,2,6,5,3,5,8,9,7,9,3,2,3,8,4,6,2,6,4,3,3,8,3,2,7,9,5,0,2,8,8,4,1... 04:02:14 shachaf: re the minimum wage rise / corporation tax cut, my reasoning was that it's logical that if you're being protectionist wrt workers, you'd want to ensure that all the jobs were filled via increasing pay, as you can't rely on migrant workers any more 04:03:42 <\oren\> I prefer mercantilism to protectionism. Buy cheap and sell dear, on the level of nationstates 04:04:23 i,i buy sheep and sell deer 04:05:05 \oren\: I didn't want to make a judgement as to whether protectionism was a good thing, just work out how you'd have to adjust things in the likely event that it's implemented 04:05:25 shachaf: a little topological group representation theory is not amiss if you happen to end up a quantum mechanic, repairing other peoples' quanta when they begin to wear out 04:05:27 i lold 04:05:47 <\oren\> if you can mak sure you sell lots of finished goods and buy only raw materials, then money will flow into your country... 04:06:30 \oren\: well the UK's exports are mostly services 04:08:08 \oren\: Is money flowing into your country a good thing? 04:08:24 Money isn't even real. 04:09:00 If real world goods are flowing out of your country and in return some numbers get bigger, is that really to your advantage? 04:09:06 <\oren\> yes. if your country has more money, then on average everyone in your country has more moeny 04:09:47 But money is still not real. 04:10:22 <\oren\> in the time of mercantilism, moeny was gold 04:10:39 Well, at least you can't print gold. 04:11:19 <\oren\> you could do a similar thing creating a policy where your country is gathering large amounts of any valuable thing 04:11:34 <\oren\> gold happened to be the thing in the 1800's 04:12:01 <\oren\> most countries still have their gold reserves 04:12:12 \oren\: What do you think of this crackpot-sounding PDF? http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf 04:12:17 (It starts at page 11.) 04:12:35 <\oren\> but gold is no longer that useful 04:12:35 It says some things that are obviously problematic, but I'm not sure what to make of the overall idea. 04:12:47 Gold has never been that useful. 04:12:53 <\oren\> I would recommend that countries gather plutonium 04:13:04 alercah: yeah, I mean, there are obviously denser cities, but I didn't feel like it was too sparse or anything... there always seemed to be plenty of stuff to do. 04:13:20 Cale: What did you think of New York? 04:13:22 shachaf: ooh you're the author 04:13:24 Wait, were you in NY or Boston? 04:13:26 izalove: ? 04:13:28 and jsgif is cool 04:13:30 <\oren\> plutonium stockpiles are very valuable to a country 04:13:31 your site 04:13:35 izalove: I'm not the author of that text. 04:13:39 okk 04:13:42 There's a reference at the top. 04:13:47 It's from a book. 04:13:48 you're the author of the description for jsgif? 04:14:07 I thought you were talking about the excerpt from _Mathematics Made Difficult_ 04:14:14 Cale: It's not bad if you have a car 04:14:15 Which is a good book. 04:14:23 Cale: Did you read that book? 04:14:37 do you have a blog? 04:14:38 right now, with the construction, travelling by foot/bus is pretty bad 04:15:24 <\oren\> shachaf: well gold used to be useful because eveyone used it as money 04:15:34 shachaf: New York is fun to visit, but it's a bit stressful. 04:15:55 <\oren\> you could make a case for countries to crate large stockpiles of american dollars... 04:16:09 shachaf: I've been to both NYC and Boston in somewhat recent times 04:16:12 Here's a PDF (25MB): http://i7-dungeon.sourceforge.net/math_hard.pdf 04:16:17 <\oren\> or other "safe" currencies 04:16:34 agreed re NYC 04:18:17 olist 1054 04:18:18 olist 1054: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 04:19:21 so why don't people just put a ping on olist, rather than adding themself to the list? 04:19:57 Maybe some people do. 04:21:15 I think there might be some lists with no official subscribers? 04:21:36 It is what I suggested for danddreclist too, and use that even if HackEgo won't respond for any reason 04:21:56 But yes, also with other stuff such as olist I suggest you can do that kind of stuff. 04:30:17 \oren\: What do you think of that PDF? 04:37:55 so why don't people just put a ping on olist, rather than adding themself to the list? <-- i usually see the olist in the logs, not in irssi. 04:38:18 well in that case your name isn't pinging you either 04:38:23 unless you grep for your name in the logs, I guess 04:38:39 grep is sort-of an after-the-fact log-based version of pinging 04:38:42 i search for my name in IE hth 04:39:06 it's very reasonable as long as it's only one string 04:40:11 i was excited for a moment when the channel was vaguely about esolangs. can we do that again? :P 04:40:41 what were we discussing? 04:40:52 did you see my edit to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Black? 04:41:16 (apparently the interp has vanished and wasn't in the web archive, so I rehosted it; it's not my interp but I happened to have a copy saved) 04:46:26 it's been a decade man 04:46:31 you should have proved it TC by now 04:47:58 <\oren\> shachaf: it's a very vehement exposition of some blindly obvious facts, combined with some bullshit 04:48:00 I haven't been working on it all that time! 04:48:09 also, the fact of my edit, and the circumstances surrounding it 04:48:21 increase the chance that someone else will prove it TC and save me the bother :-P 04:49:04 considering that you already understand it well enough to write a meaningful program in it means you have a head start on all such people 04:49:38 ...but i'll think about it anyway 04:50:19 \oren\: I can't tell whether the first part is true. 04:53:58 <\oren\> well, i mean, it's obvious that with fiat currency and in particular with electronic money, the government can create as much money as it wants or needs at any time 04:54:13 Yes, that much is obvious. 04:54:26 (Except the federal reserve system is very complicated for some reason.) 04:54:43 But are all the consequences of that obvious? 04:56:32 <\oren\> no, because he made other assumptions 04:56:43 Yes. 04:57:21 For example, people talk about government deficits being bad, and say that a government's spending should be lower than its tax revenue. 04:57:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:57:44 But if money is created only by the government, and you want the money supply to grow, is that really the case? 04:57:51 <\oren\> firstly, if a government prints too much money, its citizens will silently rebel by using foreign currencies and barter, not silently suffer 04:58:27 Of course there are negative consequences to printing unlimited amount of money. 04:58:47 (I don't think there was a claim to the contrary.) 04:59:13 Of course, money is introduced by many people other than the government. 05:00:15 <\oren\> no, but there are a bunch of places where I think he ignores the fact that currencies can start to compete within the economy 05:00:51 <\oren\> that is, not all transactions use the official currency of a country, especially when there is dysfunction 05:01:00 Of course. 05:01:37 One of the goals of anyone who makes any sort of currency is to have people trust it. 05:02:50 <\oren\> so not only will other countries not accept your currency, but a government can't actually force its citizens to use a currency 05:03:44 Well, they can require taxes to be paid in that currency. 05:03:50 <\oren\> so inflation rates have to be kept at a slow and veyr steady amount 05:04:56 I think people have been trying unsuccessfully to increase USD inflation. 05:07:05 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 05:07:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:07:40 -!- idris-bot has joined. 05:09:23 Why? 05:09:24 ais523: i made a Black gate that does a thing. maybe it will help. 05:09:49 quintopia: the hard part is decrementing variables 05:09:55 a variable needs to extend past the original area of the program 05:10:11 which means that the turning apparatus you need to decrement it needs to be shoved further and further out over time 05:10:22 the example program on the page is a proof that the decrement is possible 05:10:33 so I felt reasonably confident at that point that it was TC 05:11:04 ais523: i'm just thinking about building logic gates and circuits and stuff. 05:11:28 ah right, the control rather than the data 05:11:47 I hadn't thought much about that 05:12:58 stupid america and stupid month/day/year dates 05:13:44 https://github.com/aappleby/smhasher last commit on jan 9 and the text says "update: 1/8/2016" 05:14:00 total wtf for a couple of minutes 05:14:01 <\oren\> ugh 05:14:23 <\oren\> I prefer the japanese/chinese system where each number is labeled 05:14:45 pretty much any other scheme is better 05:15:37 <\oren\> izalove: what about century/month/day/yearofcentury? 20/1/8/16 05:15:49 you're the devil 05:16:33 -!- foo_ has joined. 05:16:44 \oren\: and then Japanese has an era. H28/8/16 05:17:02 (probably will change soon) 05:18:05 -!- burden-- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:19:22 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:20:04 <\oren\> 3:40 hours till Assange will give his address 05:20:34 it's 123 fake street 05:20:46 nowhere, anywhere 05:21:13 <\oren\> I mean address as in a speech 05:21:24 <\oren\> for the 10th anniversary of wikileaks 05:28:45 clearly dates should give the year number mod 3, 5, 7, 11, and 13 05:28:58 that'll be unambiguous until the year 15016, at least if you know which field is which 05:30:17 we could easily do the same fir month and day 05:30:24 go fkr it 05:30:51 like a binary clock but with mod results instead of single led 05:31:45 actually, remove 3 from the year 05:31:55 use 5, 7, 11, 13 for the year, 3 and 4 for the month, 31 for the day 05:32:29 nah, the same for everything, otherwise it'd be way too easy 05:33:28 like, what fun is it to see 27th if you can have 2, 6, 5, 1 05:35:12 also, we could just use the discordian dates 05:39:35 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:41:29 myname: maybe the day uses 2 and 17? 05:41:36 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:41:41 or, hmm, perhaps duplicates are OK 05:41:47 2 and 4 is dubious enough as-is 05:42:22 using the same primes make a neat table 05:43:02 like, 5,7,11,13 as columns and year,month,day as rows 05:43:44 -!- encodingcollecto has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:45:33 til esoteric programming languages are "Langages de programmation exotiques" in French. exotic! now thats classy! 05:47:24 ugh, I should really work out the details of the language I wanted to work out the details of 05:47:30 is the calesyta esolang challenge still going? 05:47:42 maybe in france, esoteric isn't that esoteric 05:48:05 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:48:36 oh, November 15 05:48:37 plenty of time 05:50:42 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:55:33 ais523: There won't BE a world on november 15 05:55:55 hppavilion[1]: is this related to the US elections? 05:56:01 Yes? 05:56:16 I mean, the president-elect isn't sworn in until January... 05:56:34 oh 05:56:45 so why do you think the world will end by november 15? 05:57:32 trump should at least wait for the release of disney's moana 05:57:36 before destroying the world 05:58:04 blowing up the planet before that would be a dick move 05:58:34 I'm at least mildly confident that if it came to a war between the US and the rest of the world, the rest of the world could deal with the problem without accidentally ending human civilisation in the process 05:58:37 izalove: After would be completely fair though; I mean, this is the planet that elected Trump 05:58:48 he hasn't been elected yet 05:58:54 ais523: You haven't met the US 05:58:58 and is currently projected to have around a 1 in 3 chance of winning 05:59:04 Well yeah 05:59:10 hppavilion[1]: I know enough about elections to know that they can be determined by completely random stuff 05:59:15 so I'm worried 05:59:27 but less worried than I could be 05:59:33 do you have a vote in the US, and if so, in which state? 05:59:45 I mean, Hillary's not exactly preferable 05:59:52 ais523: No; ineligible for the moment 05:59:56 you can be preferable without actually being good 06:00:11 Well yeah 06:00:22 I'd rather write an IRC client in INTERCAL than Malbolge, but neither is an appropriate choice 06:00:38 ais523: I think it boils down to being shot in the foot or shot in the head; neither is good, but one isn't going to kill you 06:01:03 ais523: I don't think it'd be even possible to write it in malbolge; it doesn't do sockets iirc 06:01:14 put it in a loop with netcat 06:01:16 like thutubot does 06:01:23 Ah 06:01:53 REPLs are one thing, but RSERPLs are even better 06:02:03 (Read Send Eval Receive Print Loop- SSH, basically) 06:02:31 eval before receive? 06:02:46 izalove: eval is done remotely 06:02:48 that said, CLC-INTERCAL does have sockets 06:02:57 and receive isn't? 06:03:04 also the best IPv6 compatibility method I've ever seen 06:03:11 izalove: As in, data is sent to remote, evaluated there, and the response is sent back 06:03:20 And printed 06:03:30 It's not a very good name 06:03:36 (you can look up an IPv6 IP as though it were a domain name, or an IPv6-only domain name, and you'll get a fake IPv4 address in response which then gets translated to and from the IPv6 address behind the scenes) 06:03:49 shouldn't it be read send receive eval send receive print loop ? 06:03:58 I guess you could say RSRPL+RESL 06:04:01 "receive eval send loop" is probably the best name for it 06:04:08 ais523: True 06:09:19 Does any program other than CLC-INTERCAL capable to do such a thing with IPv6 compatibility? 06:09:46 zzo38: I don't know of one, although that doesn't mean that there isn't one I don't know about 06:10:37 i'd just say remote-repl 06:11:51 but what does remote stand for 06:12:17 doesn't matter 06:12:42 "somewhere, maybe but not necessarily here" 06:13:10 worst acronym ever 06:13:40 that's because it isn't one 06:13:48 also, INTERCAL is way worse 06:14:12 is that even an acronym? 06:14:17 Sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic 06:14:20 it is 06:14:22 it's pronounceable, which would tend to imply not 06:14:33 Also, any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced 06:14:37 it stands for Programming Language With No Pronouncable Acronym 06:14:53 I believe the only official statement along the lines is "INTERCAL is short for Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym" 06:15:03 which implies that it's an abbreviation, but no necessarily an acronym 06:15:07 myname: PLWNPA? That's pronounceable. 06:15:17 But you have to treat w like old english 06:15:21 Where it can make 'oo' 06:15:31 also, it's only dubiously a real word (which tends to imply that it isn't an acronym), and it isn't an initialism 06:15:34 hppavilion[1]: intercal's not that old, i guess 06:15:46 myname: 1972 06:16:17 myname: Would you be surprised if it wanted us to use old English? 06:16:19 see, not "old english" old 06:16:26 i would 06:16:38 myname: You clearly aren't in the INTERCALlian spirit then 06:16:55 intercal is more of a "look at what you can do" instead of a "look what we moved away from" 06:17:10 if it would be the later, it would still have goto 06:17:11 INTERCAL is designed to do things differently from other languages, that is its only real guiding principle 06:17:26 note that this allows doing things better in cases where most other languages mess them up 06:17:41 however, normally all the best options are already taken, thus forcing INTERCAL to choose a worse one 06:20:44 if it doesn't have null pointers, it is still a better language than go 06:21:42 you possibly don't want to know how INTERCAL's closest pointer equivalents work :-P 06:22:07 although they have null pointers to the same extent that they have multivalued pointers 06:22:30 and some pointer-like constructs have a pointer end up pointing to itself if you attempt to unset it 06:24:29 GOTO is still something that would help in some programming languages which don't have it; in some of these cases they eventually did add goto 06:24:35 But JavaScript still doesn't yet 06:25:03 i am not sure if goto would be any good in an event based language 06:26:24 What do you mean by "event based language" exactly? 06:43:04 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 07:11:15 idea 07:11:22 for a hash function 07:11:29 that can output any amount of bytes 07:11:37 take a prng 07:11:57 seed it with a fixed value 07:12:50 then something like uint32_t hash = rng(); while (*data) hash ^= rng() * *data++; 07:13:11 can be adapted to output a 64 bit hash by calling rng twice in the loop 07:13:24 or 128 bit or 196 bit or 1024 bit 07:14:21 is it stupid? 07:18:46 any feedback would be appreciated.. <.< 07:18:46 it's not too stupid but it's probably better to use a fixed sequence of values rather than random values 07:18:52 otherwise you get silly behaviour when the RNG outputs 0, or a stream of the same value in a row, etc. 07:19:15 many actual insecure hash functions use that sort of formula though 07:19:26 it's not for crypto 07:19:51 the rng is a way to generate a fixed sequence of decently distributed numbers 07:20:09 indeed 07:20:27 one well-known hash (ISBN check codes) uses the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, … 10 for the purpose 07:20:39 so I'm not sure that being decently distributed is required here :-D 07:20:47 ais523: I have a vote in California. 07:21:02 ais523: can't hurt, no? 07:21:03 That's not very useful as far as influecing the national election. 07:21:12 shachaf: hmm, that's one of the least valuable states to have a vote in, sadly 07:21:18 at least it means you could safely screw around with it 07:21:29 That's true. 07:21:32 ais523 2016 07:21:33 (also, influencing the popular vote might potentially help in the case of a close decision) 07:22:25 there's at least one stupid scenario, with a fraction-of-a-percent chance, in which the house of representatives gets to pick between clinton, trump, and johnson 07:22:41 and if clinton doesn't win the popular vote they'll almost certainly go for trump in that situation 07:23:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:24:08 7000/1 is a fraction 07:52:14 -!- ^_^v has joined. 08:01:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:02:01 with that hash function it's easy to generate a bloom filter 08:02:14 just initialize with n different seeds 08:07:48 -!- augur has joined. 08:17:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:20:32 -!- augur has joined. 08:29:00 https://www.scribd.com/doc/18093757/Fuckin-Concrete-Contemporary-Abstract-Algebra-Introduction-by-Nicolas-Bourbaki-Junior 08:32:45 -!- Caesura has joined. 08:34:06 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:50:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:58:43 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:17:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:24:52 -!- carado has joined. 10:27:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:28:07 -!- augur has joined. 11:34:57 -!- boily has joined. 11:41:19 wisdom 11:41:25 treant//Treants are genericized ents for intellectual property reasons. 12:02:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:03:11 -!- augur has joined. 12:25:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BONUS CHICKEN). 12:31:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:32:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:08:07 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:11:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:27:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:27:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:45:02 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 13:45:04 moooo 13:50:34 Gesundheit 13:53:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:54:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:57:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:58:26 -!- augur has joined. 14:19:34 -!- trn has joined. 14:20:14 -!- ^_^v has joined. 14:38:27 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:17:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:20:29 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 15:20:31 @tell fizzie You know, maybe zemhill_____ should sometimes _subtract_ an underscore hth 15:20:31 Consider it noted. 15:33:52 Subtraction is unsound 15:33:57 Addition forever 15:34:08 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKAY 15:35:07 negative numbers don't even real 15:36:13 No zero either. 15:38:37 and these newfangled numbers larger than two are suspect as well. 15:52:48 -!- Kaynato has joined. 16:06:29 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 16:22:04 FreeFull: gotta stay positive, I like it 16:52:54 quote different result 16:52:55 397) There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [...] You've just gave me a different result [...] It's always insane to expect different results, even when it's likely to occur. 17:04:56 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:06:06 -!- ^_^v has joined. 17:08:32 -!- ^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 17:14:56 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 17:15:00 mooo 17:16:19 -!- ^_^v has joined. 17:16:54 wb ^_^v 17:16:56 * oerjan feels obligated to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI 17:17:12 lol 17:17:21 special for you 17:19:19 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:50:25 It's been a while... I wonder whether the original swf is still around. 18:03:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:10:00 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:18:28 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:23:18 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:24:26 -!- Kaynato has joined. 18:38:03 <^_^v> thank you moonythedwarf. your kindness these past few days has warmed my heart 18:39:41 haven't heard that song in a while 18:40:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:41:30 it bothers me that the song says "he" but the animation shows a "she" 18:46:06 ? mahjong 18:46:07 mahjong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:51:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:57 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:57:50 -!- Reece has joined. 19:02:10 -!- Reece has quit (Client Quit). 19:02:25 -!- Reece has joined. 19:04:27 -!- Kaynato has joined. 19:13:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:41 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:21:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:49 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:24:49 -!- Caesura has joined. 19:34:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:34:15 I seem to be studying the "signs" of a set, which is a mathematical idea of mine (it could already exist, but I haven't heard of it) that ISN'T half-baked 19:34:27 It's essentially a way of generalizing positive and negative numbers 19:34:49 I'll explain if anyone is interested, once I write down an ACIIable version 19:36:45 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:39:40 hey, it can't be less half-baked than the "signs" of M. Night Shyamalan 19:39:54 or is it 'more half-baked'? 19:40:03 'less-than-half-baked'? 19:40:20 probably just 'less-baked' 19:42:57 quintopia: I'll have to check that 19:43:31 quintopia: Ah 19:43:34 I thought it was math xD 19:43:50 quintopia: Shall I explain them? 19:47:35 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 19:48:09 Back 19:48:25 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? 19:48:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:48:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 20:04:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:07:32 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:10:02 -!- augur has joined. 20:17:28 -!- Zarutian has joined. 20:31:15 -!- Reece has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:50:26 wisdom 20:50:29 banach-tarski//"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 20:58:42 <\oren\> ? 20:58:43 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:58:49 <\oren\> wisdom 20:58:50 ​αλτγρ+γ//αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo! 20:59:05 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:07 ruby//Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. 20:59:17 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:18 wth//WTH is wavy toe hair. hth. 20:59:22 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:23 ​@//@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. 20:59:29 ? hth 20:59:29 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 20:59:33 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:35 overworld//The overworld is an alternative name for the world map, used by players of the Zelda video games. 20:59:40 hth can also be 'hope that harmed' in some cases 20:59:44 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:45 ? hðh 20:59:45 structural subtyping//Not to be confused with substructural typing. 20:59:46 hðh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:59:52 <\oren\> wisdom 20:59:53 ipu//IPU is an invisible pink unicorn. 20:59:59 <\oren\> wisdom 21:00:00 semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. 21:01:31 learn hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:01:33 Learned 'hðh': hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:01:48 ? hðh 21:01:49 hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. 21:02:02 ? hppavilion[n] 21:02:02 hppavilion[n]? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:02:06 ? hppavilion 21:02:07 hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk 21:02:46 learn hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. Not to be confused with hppavilion_n 21:02:49 Relearned 'hppavilion': hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. Not to be confused with hppavilion_n 21:04:24 rm wisdom/hðh 21:04:25 No output. 21:05:30 shachaf: :( 21:05:39 Pointing out that you're being annoying does not free you from any consequences of being annoying. 21:05:56 ++ 21:05:56 If anything it does the opposite. 21:06:21 ...fair enough 21:06:30 shachaf: I felt it'd be useful though. 21:06:41 For people who get confused if I accidentally slip back into ERA 21:07:02 (I use ERA outside of #esoteric; I only avoid it here out of consideration for the request of those with bad Unicode handling in their clients) 21:07:08 No, you felt it'd be funny. 21:07:48 shachaf: ...that too. 21:08:01 Everything I do is for humor 21:09:33 <\oren\> I wasn't expecting Semmelweis to be a real person 21:09:50 \oren\: Whom? 21:10:05 Oh, was it a user that recently joined and turned out to not be a bot? 21:17:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:18:03 -!- augur has joined. 21:18:18 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: no 21:18:27 <\oren\> wisdom semmelweis 21:18:28 semmelweis//Semmelweis saves the life of a hundred thousand birthgiving mothers by popularising This One Simple Trick. Doctors hate him for it. 21:18:38 <\oren\> that's actually true 21:19:05 <\oren\> the trick was disinfecting their hands before delivering babies 21:20:34 Ah 21:20:40 ...Oh, huh 21:22:20 \oren\: But why would doctors hate him? It's more chargeable if the mother lives because (a) nasty ethics like "don't make people pay you, at least as much, when you seriously failed" don't get in the way as often and (b) dead men need no doctors (except, y'know, coroners), so they won't be returning customers 21:23:15 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: they hated him for suggesting that a gentleman's hands could possibly carry disease 21:23:26 Ah, yes 21:23:35 -!- Caesura has joined. 21:24:28 . o O ( They could carry the disease... of love! ) 21:31:06 -!- Caesura has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:34:11 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:34:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:40:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:56:30 So people apparently sometimes say that Grover's algorithm can be used for "searching a database". 21:57:59 Suppose I have a "quantum hard drive" that I can store qubits in, but when I'm pulling qubits out, I have to specify the index classically; I can't ask for a superposition of indices. 21:58:51 Is there a way I can store a database on this quantum hard drive such that I can use Grover's algorithm to quickly search it? 22:02:47 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: MDude). 22:03:13 -!- MDude has joined. 22:24:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:29:37 tswett: I'm not an expert on this, but as I understand it, no; Wikipedia agrees: "Roughly speaking, if we have a function y = f(x) that can be evaluated on a quantum computer, Grover's algorithm allows us to calculate x when given y." 22:50:43 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49857&oldid=49855 * Iovoid * (+538) Add examples. 22:56:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:01:45 hello 23:23:56 -!- boily has joined. 23:24:59 wisdom 23:25:00 ​#programming//No such channel. See ? #esoteric 23:26:15 <\oren\> wisdon 23:26:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdon: not found 23:26:17 <\oren\> wisdom 23:26:19 oregon//Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left. 23:26:26 <\oren\> wisdom 23:26:27 codoctor//P⚭Q ∧ P ∈ 𝔻𝕣 → Q ∈ 𝔻𝕣* 23:26:47 <\oren\> wisdom 23:26:49 northumberland//Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE! 23:26:56 <\oren\> wisdom 23:26:57 heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. 23:27:04 <\oren\> wisdom 23:27:05 the universe//The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet. 23:27:12 <\oren\> wisdom 23:27:13 try//There is no try. 23:27:18 <\oren\> wisdom 23:27:20 finland//Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 23:27:26 <\oren\> wisdom 23:27:27 dynamic-wind//dynamic-wind is the opposite of static-wind. 23:31:08 he\\oren\. please be advised that nothing can oppose oerjan hth 23:31:19 <\oren\> wisdom 23:31:21 joke//Jokes are no drug. 23:31:25 <\oren\> wisdom 23:31:27 fire//Fire, fire, everywhere, nor any drop to drink. 23:33:04 wisdom 23:33:05 scotland// it's that place where they all wear kilts and chase haggises around whilst warding off the loch ness monster with bagpipes 23:33:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:35:27 coily 23:35:35 elloerjan 23:36:00 intopia 23:37:07 quinthellopia, hellørjan. 23:37:30 * boily opposes oerjan. FOR SCIENCE! 23:37:35 hoily. i have found the universe quite efficient at opposing me, actually. 23:37:44 * quintopia opposes boily 23:38:07 * oerjan refuses to oppose either, on principle 23:38:41 are you opposing opposition? 23:39:09 NEVER 23:39:20 OKAY 23:39:30 im not totally opposing boily, i just think he hasnt given vocaloid a completely fair shot. 23:39:38 * oerjan gets hit by the falling anvil. it's been a while... 23:41:04 oppose is when you reverse all the 2-cells in a pose? 23:41:39 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? <-- . o O ( baguette derivatives ) 23:41:58 no its when you give a pose the permission to kick people from the channel 23:42:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:42:20 speak of the devil 23:42:25 speak o... oops 23:42:50 quintopia: Wouldn't a half-baked idea be the baguette of ideas? <-- . o O ( baguette derivatives ) 23:43:11 tell us aboit set signs then hppavilion[1] 23:44:10 quintopia: itym posse hth 23:44:47 no that would be opposse 23:45:04 opossible 23:47:10 quintopia: OK 23:47:11 * boily is confuzzled. 23:47:48 Signs are basically a way of generalizing positive and negative (and zero) numbers that I'm playing with 23:48:03 a heffalomp or wuzzle / is very confuzzle 23:48:36 You have a set S and a magnitude function (which is basically a more general absolute value) #x : S -> T that may or may not need to satisfy some properties that I haven't found to be needed yet 23:49:09 they come in ones and twoosels. 23:49:10 (Assume for now T is a subset of S. Other cases are possible, of course, but I'm ignoring those for now) 23:49:55 (#x must be defined for ALL elements of S) 23:51:38 a heffalomp or wuzzle's very sly 23:51:52 So for many definitions of #x, there will be several values x, y where x /= y, #x = #y (by the pigeonhole principle, definitely any where T has lesser cardinality (which is, by the way, a possible definition of #) than X) 23:51:58 ? hppavilion 23:51:59 hppavilion is the generator including, but not limited to, hppavilion[1], hppavilion[2], and hppavilion[42]. hppavilion is of length 37-42i-28j+4k-28ij+38ik+62jk+20ijk. A common alternative definition is the set of all items yielded by the general case of the generator. Not to be confused with hppavilion^k or hppavilion_m. 23:52:06 oh. 23:52:18 And sign basically is what makes those values different. 23:52:50 well...all of that seems rather obvious, but how is it useful? 23:53:09 Like, y'know, when your set is Z and magnitude is just normal absolute value, -1 /= 1 but |-1| = |1| = 1 23:53:18 quintopia: Yeah, that's what I'm looking for 23:53:52 This feels like one of those things that HAS to be useful (not random babbling), but I don't know of an exact application 23:54:05 (I think I might have had one in mind earlier, but I've forgotten it if so) 23:54:13 ? heffalump 23:54:14 heffalump? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:54:29 what! 23:54:31 unacceptable 23:54:34 quintopia: But the point is that sign can be something more than just + - 0; you can have arbitrarily many of them 23:54:58 You can even have a cosign for every sign. 23:55:05 shachaf: ...yes, you could 23:55:17 Probably, let's be honest, that's going to come up eventually 23:55:47 (If you're doing complex numbers, you have uncountably many if you use normal absolute value for magnitude; the signs represent points on the unit circle) 23:56:51 learn A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. 23:56:53 Learned 'heffalump': A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. 23:57:08 quintopia: Oh, and even if you just use Q, you can find alternative similar interpretations to positive and negative that are very different. 23:57:21 oerjan: that wisdom entry is very confusil 23:57:35 shocking 23:57:54 ? woozle 23:57:55 woozle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:58:00 a hefelump is a lump of sugar fermented with yeast 23:58:26 quintopia: is that a pun or just a mispling 23:58:54 Using mfloor(x) instead of abs(x), sign becomes any number n/m : m in N*, n in N, -1 ≤ n ≤ 1 23:59:23 oerjan: hefe as in hefeweizen 2016-10-05: 00:00:40 okay 00:00:48 * oerjan hasn't heard that term before. 00:01:29 I really want a thing similar to saying positive/negative/zero, but multiplicative instead of additive; positive-analog is abs(x) > 1, negative-analog is abs(x) < 1, zero-analog is abs(x) = 1 00:02:17 hppavilion[1]: are you sure you mean abs there 00:02:28 oerjan: Yes. abs as in absolute value. 00:02:46 oh. 00:03:26 (I could call them "superlative", "sublative", and "one", perhaps) 00:04:05 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:14 Basically, the sign of n indicates whether lim(lambda x: n^x, omega) is 0, ±infinity, or... whatever it is when n = 1 or n = -1 00:05:27 hppavilion[1]: how about contractile and dilatory and one 00:05:39 quintopia: Yes! Great! 00:05:52 s/ile/ive/ 00:05:56 ...are those existing words or did you come up wiht that? 00:06:16 oerjan: s/ory/ive/ 00:06:24 hppavilion[1]: maybe you should learn linear algebra by watching these videos: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/linear-algebra/eola-topic/eola/v/eola-preview 00:06:27 i heard they're good 00:06:28 i'm not sure of that. 00:06:31 you can confirm or deny it 00:06:48 (that was to hppavilion[1]) 00:07:07 shachaf: ty 00:07:37 shachaf: Oh! I think I'm already subscribed to the guy who makes that series, and I've been meaning to watch them! 00:08:20 oerjan: Why not dilatve? 00:08:30 well maybe. 00:08:42 i just don't think dilatory is wrong. 00:08:47 You can watch them right now. They're only about an hour, and split into separate segments. 00:08:50 Very visual. 00:08:58 More consistent 00:09:00 Yep 00:09:01 (Maybe a little too visual.) 00:09:11 i was using words that have other meanings on purpose 00:09:14 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: impomatic_). 00:09:15 And maybe a little bit too matrix-focused. But I'm not sure about that. 00:09:41 hm neither is contractile, indeed. 00:09:41 dilatory means "delaying" contractile refers to muscle tissue 00:12:06 quintopia: Well, also dilation in the sense of what they do to make your eyes bigger 00:28:59 -!- vifino- has quit (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<). 00:29:21 -!- vifino has joined. 00:38:02 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<). 00:38:27 -!- vifino has joined. 00:53:41 int-e: Did you play Scowder & Web? 01:01:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:11:54 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:14:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:18:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:42 shachaf: ...the quote on video #3 is "Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself." -Morpheus 01:22:51 (about 4 millishachafs) 01:24:25 Wait, are shachafs an absolute measurement of pun (dimension P), or is it P/E (where E is the dimension of effort)? 01:25:12 Thus meaning even a REALLY funny joke gets a low score if it's two obvious, and something not very funny gets a high score if it takes some thinking to find it (but not to understand it)? 01:25:39 (I guess it'd be P/E^2 in that case, if we want to measure effort to make it vs. effort to get it) 01:27:57 My name is not a unit, please. 01:31:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:31:31 Oh, right, s/shachafs/grumpychafs/ 01:32:07 No word ending in chaf is a unit, please. 01:32:39 ...oh, right 01:32:55 Do "shagrumpies" trigger it? 01:35:22 the unit symbol is «Sh» hth. 01:37:05 How about: "grumps" or "groans" 01:37:12 Or oys. 01:37:28 As they say: The beauty of the pun is in the Oy of the beholder. 01:37:51 * boily experimentally thwacks shachaf. 0.63 groans. 01:37:58 that works. 01:46:23 -!- Moony has joined. 01:48:00 well i liked shachaf, but i guess this new unit may groan me. 01:49:59 * boily THWACKS oerjan. 0.94 groans. 01:50:57 a pun reaches 1.0 when it can make a groan man cry 01:51:20 (by the way i like the pun but i don't like the anti-crying masculinity scow) 01:51:23 (crying is great) 01:57:10 * boily thwackthwacks shachaf. 0.945 groans 01:58:23 ? boily 01:58:25 ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 01:58:48 slwd boily//s/Man/Groan Man/ 01:58:50 wisdom/boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 02:00:43 I like the fact Trigotillectomic is a hapax googlegomenon that directly points to me :D 02:01:06 I never read that word. 02:01:26 It always looked too complicated so I pretended it was "Trigonometric" or something and skipped it. 02:01:41 ? weather 02:01:42 lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK 02:01:45 CYUL 050000Z 00000KT 15SM SKC 15/10 A3031 RMK SLP268 \ ENVA 050050Z 11005KT CAVOK 03/01 Q1046 RMK WIND 670FT 14007KT \ ESSB 050050Z AUTO 35005KT 9999 NCD 04/02 Q1043 \ KOAK 050053Z 28011KT 10SM 02:01:45 FEW020 20/11 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP150 T02000106 02:03:01 15 is warm! 02:04:44 20 is cold 02:05:42 brrr 02:08:22 there should be a spaceheater lobbing service. you enter your ICBM coordinates on their website, and they trebuchet you a warmed up heater. 02:17:34 -!- Kaynato has joined. 02:24:47 wisdom 02:24:48 endofunctor//Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 02:24:51 wisdom 02:24:52 loudly//Did you mean: loudly 02:24:53 wisdom 02:24:55 persistence//Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since. 02:24:55 wisdom 02:24:57 mroman//mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. 02:27:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLUE CHICKEN). 02:34:19 Idea to make a small amount of energy more impressive: Express it as a volume (in km^3 (or k(m^3) to make it even bigger)) of average space in the universe where, at the universe's average density, the mass in that space has E (by E = mc^2) equal to the energy 02:36:18 whoa, invented the identity function? 02:36:21 I use that one all the time. 02:37:06  echo identity | cat | cat | cat | cat 02:37:07 identity 02:37:43 ais523: what IS a hash worse than the identity function 02:37:56 hppavilion[1]: \x.0 02:37:58 i,i putting the cat before the hose 02:38:16 ais523: ...fair enough? 02:38:25 the identity function is actually a pretty good hash if your input is restricted enough 02:38:38 Java probably uses the identity function as Integer#hashCode, for example 02:38:39 ais523: And if people shouldn't be able to derive the input from the hash 02:38:49 that's a cryptohash, different field 02:39:02 ais523: Same idea, different subfield 02:39:29 perhaps 02:39:32 * hppavilion[1] suspects the proper mathematical answer to "what's a worse hash" requires that you formally define badness... 02:39:48 but speed hashes and cryptohashes are normally very different in design and the considerations for them are pretty much completely different 02:39:53 Oh, I decided on a better notation for "is a divisor of" today 02:40:18 the only middle ground I can think of is speed hashes that use a randomized algorithm to stop people intentionally colliding them to trigger algorithmic worst cases 02:41:09 Created by analogy that the subset symbol is like less-than-or-equal-to, strict subset like less-than, superset is like greater-than-or-equal-to, and strict superset is like greater-than 02:41:22 Divisor is like 'element of'. I guess. 02:41:48 Like a < with a stroke from the initial to the midpoint of the endpoints 02:43:20 ⪪ 02:43:31 unidecode ⪪ 02:43:32 ​[U+2AAA SMALLER THAN] 02:44:08 icode ⪬ 02:44:08 ​[U+2AAC SMALLER THAN OR EQUAL TO] 02:44:27 ⪤ 02:44:38 shachaf: how does icode differ from unidecode? 02:44:45 They are the same. 02:44:56 fair enough 02:45:00 ais523: Levenshtein 4 02:45:01 The joke is unicode -> icode 02:45:07 oh, I see 02:45:08 Granted, the only real appeals are completing the symbolic analogy, freeing up | for logical things (when you should already be using ∨ for OR and ⊼ for NAND), and being mirrorable 02:45:43 unicode [U+2AAC SMALLER THAN OR EQUAL TO] 02:45:46 U+0000 \ UTF-8: 00 UTF-16BE: 0000 Decimal: � \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0001 \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal:  \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal:  \ \ Category: Cc (Other, C 02:45:57 shachaf: ...you lied to me 02:46:03 unicode U+2AAC 02:46:03 ​⪬ 02:46:07 (clearly, unicode = icode^-1) 02:48:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 02:49:26 Matrices annoy me just a tiny bit because of their limit to 2D 02:49:56 Matrices are linear maps between vector spaces of any dimension. 02:50:05 shachaf: Yes, that's how I'm learning it 02:50:13 shachaf: I mean how they're WRITTEN in 2D 02:50:17 This is like saying that functions annoy you because there's only a domain and codomain. 02:50:24 shachaf: Yes, but... 02:50:26 If you want multi-argument functions, they are available. 02:50:26 *fine* 02:50:40 (Though technically, it's LITERALLY saying that) 02:50:41 And so are multi-argument linear maps. 02:50:49 shachaf: Yay? 02:50:59 Tensors might be what you want. 02:51:03 Yes, that too 02:51:04 Or they might not, who knows. 02:51:06 I tried learning that once 02:51:11 You can do a matrix fairly tolerably in 4D by treating it as a matrix where the individual values are themselves matrices 02:51:16 And I think all the math works 02:51:22 But a bilinear function : UxV -> W is the same as a linear function : U⊗V -> W 02:51:45 (And you can multiply them by normal matrices and call it scalars!) 02:51:46 A linear map : U -> V is also the same as an element of the vector space U*⊗V 02:52:26 (dim (U⊗V) = dim U * dim V) 02:58:39 -!- centrinia has joined. 03:04:36 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:12:30 -!- foo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:23:29 Since there's matrix multiplication, there must be division; but it isn't commutative, so... Oh my god. Are there TWO division operations for matrices? A/B = C : BC = A and A\B = C : CB = A? 03:23:40 No. 03:24:09 Neither the first nor the last statement is trur. 03:24:12 true 03:24:14 ? trurl 03:24:15 trurl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:24:19 hm 03:24:49 well the last is true. 03:25:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:25:46 although hm 03:25:54 Is it? 03:26:02 I don't think matrices are even a quasigroup. 03:26:12 if B isn't invertible, then division might not be uniquely defined. 03:26:20 Right. 03:26:24 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Jafet). 03:27:13 basically because you can add any C' such that BC' = 0 (or vice versa) 03:27:37 and of course it might not exist to begin with. 03:28:05 but _if_ B is invertible, there may be two division operations. 03:29:39 hppavilion[1]: summary: division need not exist, it need not be unique when it exists, but if it exists and is unique, you might still have two operations like you say. 03:31:05 But it'll probably be clearer to write BA^-1 or A^-1B? 03:33:02 well you could still have division without having an inverse, sometimes. 03:37:36 oerjan: Oh, hi 03:37:40 I forgot about that message 03:38:17 drive-by messaging 03:38:32 oerjan: Well I was bound to come back at /some/ point and read it 03:39:14 (Full disclosure: I was already aware that you can have two different division operations; I found that out when reading through the Octave docs when I tried to learn Octave. But I'm confident I would've said the same thing if I didn't already know and had managed to brain-stumble into division) 03:39:45 fiendish 03:41:41 <\oren\> ARGH 03:42:06 * oerjan injects \oren\ with morphine 03:42:53 that's even morphinedish 03:43:19 * hppavilion[1] tries to stop oerjan, but is too late; that was hyper-concentrated #esoteric-grade morphine for use on Venezuelans and those who dare challenge fungot, and the amount administered would be a lethal dose to a horse 03:43:20 hppavilion[1]: i agree with sukoshi. why i use directed quotes in underload 03:43:21 well he seemed pain, so i wanted to help him feel morphine 03:43:30 *in pain 03:44:00 <\oren\> 何で「鉛筆」は鉛で書いた？ 03:44:09 fungot: can you please teach hppavilion[1] to babble more coherently 03:44:09 oerjan: mainly because i don't use the plural of " anecdote" is not fundamentally better than computers solving impossible problems, religious people should not comment on mathematical issues 03:44:33 Cale: whoa whoa whoa, vivid drone change 03:44:54 huh, it's me who used directed quotes in underload, that must be what fungot was referring too 03:44:54 ais523: well then i guess it's not a macro. if you 03:45:52 <\oren\> they must have known demn well that a pencil doesn't have any lead metal in it 03:45:55 ais523: That quote was certainly directed at you. 03:46:03 oerjan: But my coherence mathematically approaches 0 as time goes to 0. I can't resist it. 03:46:08 *referring to 03:46:16 <\oren\> but they still wrote "pencil" with the kanji for the metal lead! 03:46:54 Now for a question of genuine interest to me, mostly because of some cryptographic applications: There are k! ways to arrange a list L of k distinct items. Which is which? That is, find a way to bijectively map numbers from 1 to k! to rearrangements of the list 03:47:44 hppavilion[1]: Fisher shuffle 03:47:55 is the usual way to biject that 03:48:05 \oren\: en:pencil = no:blyant, en:lead = no:bly hth 03:48:07 (Biggest interest: Giving every monoalphabetic english cypher a unique name from 1 to 403291461126605635584000000) 03:48:09 ais523: ty 03:48:14 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I was about to explain that, then I remembered there's a name for it. "fisher shuffle" 03:48:21 basically, you divide the number by k, the remainder gives the new position of the first list elemetn 03:48:39 <\oren\> oerjan: ARGH 03:48:40 then you divide the result of the division by k-1, the remainder gives the new position of the second list element within the remaining slots 03:48:41 and so on 03:48:47 ...Huh, that works 03:48:52 shachaf: Yeah, it's like a completely different unit 03:48:57 hppavilion[1]: There's no natural isomorphism between permutations and total orders on a set. 03:49:22 shachaf: Well yes, what I'm going for is one that doesn't require you to just write every single one down 03:49:26 shachaf: this doesn't need naturality, though, just a bijection 03:49:26 Probably this number thing is along the same lines. 03:49:35 Yes. 03:49:53 obviously there are 2**k! bijections, but the Fisher shuffle one is the one that everyone uses in practice 03:50:13 And it even satisfies the thing I was hoping for where the original is shuffle #0! Yay! 03:50:36 (well, #1, but I shifted everything off by 1 to make things start at 0- as it should be) 03:52:36 \oren\: also de:Bleistift vs. Blei 03:53:04 \oren\: conclusion, at some time in history pencils _did_ use lead, and some languages named them based on that 03:54:42 I think I have some graphite in my skin from a pencil many years ago. 03:56:14 \oren\: oh, if i'm reading german wikipedia correctly, it was a misunderstanding, people confused graphite with galena 03:58:26 ais523: itym (k!)! hth 03:59:03 oerjan: oh, yes 03:59:03 k!! 03:59:04 wow that's a big number 03:59:10 (assuming k is not trivially small) 04:04:24 \oren\: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil#Discovery_of_graphite_deposit 04:06:21 (fascinating section) 04:10:02 let's assume a world where you can't hardlink directories and bind mounts don't exist etc 04:10:25 how costly would it be to save in each directory the total size in bytes of all the files in its subtree? 04:16:08 ais523: No, (k!)! 04:16:11 Not k!! 04:16:26 what's the difference? 04:17:01 alercah: k!! is the product of all numbers in 1..k that have the same parity (even or odd) as k 04:17:16 I've never heard of that but ok 04:17:42 Because Merserve had to ruin notation for everyone with a stupid ambiguous- scratch that, unambiguous and with obvious meaning that isn't what he used- notation 04:20:12 I mean, seriously, if you wanted that, at least have the decency to make it general; like, x!,n is the product of all integers k : 0 < k <= x where k%n = 0 04:20:23 (!, being crappy shorthand for the exclamation pause) 04:25:42 That way k!! can be superfactorial :P 04:26:11 fun fact 0 = 1 04:27:00 Well, I'd go with superfactorial being written n!_k (or, well, general superfactorial; normal factorial is when k=1, superfactorial is k=2, and general case is k=whatever) 04:29:55 Definition: n!_0 = n, 0!_k = 1, n!_k = (n!_(k-1)) * ((n-1)!_k)!_(k-1) 04:30:22 (Obviously, now we have a 0^0 problem again with 0!_0, which looks like an emoticon) 04:30:35 ? emoji 04:30:36 emoji? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:30:41 ? emojus 04:30:42 emojus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:35:59 ? python 04:35:59 python? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:36:05 ? lol 04:36:06 lol? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:36:11 ? ego 04:36:11 ego? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:36:16 ? esoteric 04:36:17 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 04:36:27 ? nothing 04:36:28 Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry. 04:40:07 ? #esoteric 04:40:08 ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts. 04:44:49 do we have entries about any other channels? 04:44:53 ? #haskell 04:44:54 ​#haskell? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:45:11 I'd expect the entry to say that they didn't exist, and then go into details about what they were like 04:45:13 ? ##nomic 04:45:13 ​##nomic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:45:23  ls "wisdom/#*" 04:45:24 ls: cannot access wisdom/#*: No such file or directory 04:45:40  ls "wisdom/#"* 04:45:41 wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/#esoteric-blah \ wisdom/#programming 04:45:44 aha 04:45:47 ? #programming 04:45:48 No such channel. See ? #esoteric 04:46:02 ? #esoteric-blah 04:46:03 ​#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah! 04:55:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:55:57 copumpkin: yopumpkin 04:56:08 hi! 04:56:54 how's life 04:57:18 Someone was complaining about how you can't define a category of Agda functions easily because function equality isn't extensional. 04:57:33 And then we looked at your categories thing but it turned out to be parameterized on an equivalence relation too. 04:58:33 learn ##ais523 is the channel for all things ais523 04:59:10 does that channel even exist? :-P 04:59:18 ais523: It does now, apparently 04:59:24 It's just shachaf though 04:59:25 it has two #s so it's not up to me to influence it 05:02:08 You're at least as entitled as anyone else is. 05:03:12 entitlement(u('ais523'), chan('##ais523')) ≥ 1/occ(chan('##ais523')) 05:03:38 s,occ,#occ, 05:04:20 hmm, if #occ means "number of occurrences", does "##ais523" mean "number of numbers of ais523s"? 05:04:44 ais523: Yes, but not when in quotes 05:04:49 When in quotes it's just a name 05:05:16 What's the value of ##ais523? 05:05:26 Is it equal to #ais523 or is it 1 or something else? 05:05:44 if #ais523 is uniquely defined, then ##ais523 is 1 05:05:52 ais523: Also, occ : Chan -> {User} means occupants, and # is magnitude (which is cardinality for sets but is absolute value for numbers) 05:06:07 oh 05:06:16 so I guess ##ais523 is the absolute value of my height 05:06:32 So #occ(chan('##ais523')) reads "number of people currently in channel '##ais523'" 05:06:42 ais523: Is your height negative? 05:06:58 positive numbers have absolute values too 05:07:18 Yes, but could ANYBODY's height be negative? 05:07:25 EVER? 05:07:45 Of course. 05:07:51 if you define height as y coordinate of head minus y coordinate of feet while standing upright 05:07:57 I guess it's theoretically possible but unlikely 05:07:59 (Hint: No, height is in |R^+, and that's before you account for the Planck length) 05:08:06 No, height is oriented. 05:08:11 ais523: 'upright' must be defined 05:08:27 hppavilion[1]: I'm treating "standing upright" as a phrase 05:09:01 -!- imode has joined. 05:09:05 I suppose clowns have negative height if we allow handwalking to count as standing upright... 05:09:43 ais523: What I was going for was confirming that Australians don't have negative height 05:10:27 why assume that it's Australians who are upside-down, rather than everyone else? 05:10:42 occam's aussie. 05:10:52 ais523: Convention. 05:10:58 Australians are obviously not upside down. 05:11:04 They're facing away from the center of the planet. 05:11:05 (also: Africa) 05:11:11 Er, head-pointing away. 05:11:21 shachaf: Right, it's more diagonal I guess... 05:11:35 I know, at this very moment, that there may be an australian that's locally upside-down. 05:11:57 imode: Thank you for smartassing it for me :D 05:12:14 hppavilion[1]: always a pleasure. :) 05:12:17 relcome imode 05:12:18 ​imode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 05:12:33 oh, I'm very well aware of esolangs. :P 05:13:13 nice bot though. dig the colors. 05:14:07 getting further back on topic, I decided to work on this language that I've been thinking about for a while for the CALESYTA contest 05:14:27 for a while, I thought it was sub-TC in a particularly interesting way 05:14:37 then I realised it's probably actually TC in an even more interesting way 05:14:48 what's the model? 05:14:53 tarpit 05:15:10 data's stored in stacks of bits 05:15:25 I probably shouldn't say too much, though, not sure if the contest allows spoilers 05:15:58 (for anyone who's interested in esolangs and missed the announcement: http://calesyta.xyz/en/) 05:16:32 now that's interesting. 05:16:55 I'm hoping that the contest is a success, it's rare that people other than us create one 05:17:55 just means that esolangs are growing more numerous and popular! 05:18:30 ...huh. I always assumed the Criterion of Embarrassment was made up by Zach Weiner for a joke. 05:18:35 It sounded like a joke. 05:20:13 Cale: Do you know some good vector spaces without a natural basis? 05:24:32 shachaf: R over Q hth 05:26:40 finite-dimensional twh 05:26:51 Of coure it's easy to come up with infinite-dimensional ones. 05:26:56 fin-dish 05:27:04 but i should've specified it tdh 05:27:43 shachaf: the pointed euclidean plane hth 05:28:04 * oerjan whistles innocently 05:30:36 gotta wonder if any esolangs have been created as productivity enhancers. sort of like shorthand programming. stack machines are good for that sort of thing. 05:31:15 a small virtual machine I can use with one hand tied behind my back. 05:34:06 <\oren\> I made one that is sort of like a shorthand C 05:34:25 <\oren\> but it didn't end up being very good 05:35:54 iirc mroman created burlesque in that way. 05:36:31 yep, today's girl genius is definitely weird, soldier 05:38:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:39:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:40:56 -!- ^_^v has joined. 05:54:27 i wonder what "argentinian features" are 06:02:00 OH MY GOD 06:02:14 "DONALD" translates, approximately, to "world ruler" 06:13:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:14:22 i always knew there was something fishy about that duck 06:23:40 I think my mother might be a little drunk... 06:24:22 shachaf: Too many ties to Walt Street? He's literally the nephew of Scrooge McDuck, it turns out... 06:41:35 -!- Akaibu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:46:28 -!- Akaibu has joined. 06:50:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:52:53 i really like the album with music inspired by the life and times of scrooge 06:58:02 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 06:59:20 i set english as the main language everywhere 06:59:30 but i do often search italian things 06:59:39 for some reason google seems to think that i'm spanish 06:59:54 not sure why 06:59:57 i don't even speak spanish 07:00:17 i mean i know why, it's because italian and spanish are similar enough to confuse it 07:00:29 but still, i'm disappointed 07:07:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:10:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:24:40 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: except that scrooge McDuck earned his money in the gold rush, not on wallstreet 07:25:18 "it turns out" 07:25:45 also, there is a german magazine called donaldist, being an acronym 07:26:10 with sruff like scientific papers around the donald universe 07:27:37 \oren\: notice the spelling of 'Walt' 07:31:15 What's it called when you have two functions f, g where f(x)*g(x) = x? (distinctly NOT inverse; reciprocal, maybe, but it's really more general than just reciprocals, because sgn and abs satisfy this) 07:35:06 Reciprocal would be (f*g)(x) = 1 07:35:19 I'd just say their (point-wise) product is the identity function. 07:36:26 > map (abs * signum) [-5..5] 07:36:28 error: 07:36:28 • Ambiguous type variable ‘b0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M756589516162... 07:36:28 prevents the constraint ‘(Show b0)’ from being solved. 07:36:41 @let import Data.NumInstances 07:36:44 Defined. 07:36:45 > map (abs * signum) [-5..5] :: [Integer] 07:36:47 [-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5] 07:47:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:48:03 Although it's also the case that id * signum = abs 07:53:28 -!- trn has joined. 07:54:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:04:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:05:44 Oooh, if you use integers and define magnitude as 2rtz(x/2) in my system, you deal with parity :) 08:19:39 -!- trn has quit (K-Lined). 08:23:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:25:32 -!- ^_^v has joined. 08:32:04 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:32:54 -!- ^_^v has joined. 09:00:31 also, abs is the integral of sgn 09:03:55 myname: ...so it is. 09:05:05 myname: Wait, no it isn't 09:05:34 why not? 09:05:55 myname: Because- at least according to Wikipedia- the area below the x-axis subtracts from the total of the integral 09:06:17 * hppavilion[1] might be missing something 09:06:26 oh, yeah 09:06:40 more area than integral, indeed 09:07:34 Is there an operation for absolute integral? 09:08:35 (I mean, you could do \integral{a}{b}{|f(x)|dx} probably, but do you really want to?) 09:09:48 ? 09:10:06 Why isn't abs the integral of signum? 09:10:36 "the area below the x-axis subtracts from the total of the integral", and indeed abs is decreasing to the left of 0 09:11:57 shachaf: Yes, but you would get negative values 09:12:00 (I'm pretty sure) 09:12:24 ? 09:12:33 Integrating from where? 09:13:01 shachaf: OK, just to check, we're looking at the area under sgn(x) from 0 to x, right? 09:13:15 Yes. 09:13:34 (or, well, the area between the x-axis and sgn(x)) 09:13:36 Of course when you're going from 0 to a negative number that reverses the sign 09:13:40 Yes 09:14:24 So the area is negative, because values below the x-axis subtract from the total (whereas values above add) 09:15:19 Like, sgn(x) for negative x = -1 09:16:41 And I think I was going somewhere with an example, but I've forgotten it 09:17:33 -(-x) = x hth 09:17:45 Yes... 09:18:19 But we aren't judging from which side of the y-axis; only the x-axis 09:19:10 I think you misunderstood. 09:19:27 ∫_a^b ... = -∫_b^a ... hth 09:19:51 Also you should read about how this integration thing works. 09:19:54 ...oh? 09:19:57 I am reading about it 09:20:03 Fair enough. 09:21:09 Oh, and derivative of abs is OBVIOUSLY sgn... of course... 09:22:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( note to self: integrate floor(x) ) 09:23:37 myname: You were right the first time 09:28:25 -!- carado has joined. 09:52:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Function call without parameters * New user account 10:07:23 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49858&oldid=49854 * Function call without parameters * (+240) 10:07:27 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49859 * Function call without parameters * (+601) Created page 10:11:26 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49860&oldid=49859 * Function call without parameters * (+248) 10:12:24 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49861&oldid=49860 * Function call without parameters * (+16) 10:13:15 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49862&oldid=49861 * Function call without parameters * (+74) 10:16:47 interesting name 10:21:50 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49863&oldid=49862 * Function call without parameters * (+286) 10:32:51 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49864&oldid=49863 * Function call without parameters * (+584) 10:37:07 [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49865&oldid=49864 * Function call without parameters * (+264) 10:44:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:34:30 -!- boily has joined. 11:44:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:46:16 wisdom 11:46:17 yeeeeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeeeeesh. 11:49:06  ls wisdom/ye* 11:49:07 wisdom/yeeeeeeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeeeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeeesh \ wisdom/yeeesh \ wisdom/yeti 11:49:24 ? yeeesh 11:49:25 See yeesh. 11:49:41  culprits wisdom/yeeesh 11:49:43 fizzie evilipse tswett 11:50:03 ? yeesh 11:50:04 yeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:50:12 @tell tswett tswellott. there ain't a two "e" yeeesh. please correct. 11:50:12 Consider it noted. 11:50:12 :( 11:50:23 mynamello. 'tis sad :/ 12:17:31 wisdom 12:17:32 zork//Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it. 12:18:57 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:25:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DEPTH CHICKEN). 12:41:00 ? uaneb 12:41:01 uaneb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:41:05 disappointed 13:01:35 -!- Kaynato has joined. 13:08:12 -!- lleu has joined. 13:08:12 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:08:12 -!- lleu has joined. 13:14:55 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 13:15:12 -!- Kaynato has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:40:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:46:09 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: they hated him for suggesting that a gentleman's hands could possibly carry disease 13:46:25 well they hated him for going on a one-man crusade to overturn the entire theory of disease at the time 13:46:59 I think overall I am glad he did that 13:47:04 (who are we talking about) 13:53:51 ? tanea 13:53:51 Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 14:06:13 int-e: I don't see how that thing from Wikipedia rules out being able to search a quantum hard drive. 14:06:59 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:23:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:32:09 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nukes327 * New user account 14:51:04 tswett: for Grover's algorithm you need to allow a superposition as input. 14:53:04 Sure, but can we do something more clever than just using the hard drive itself as the function? 14:54:29 -!- ^_^v has joined. 14:54:43 Maybe this hard drive contains a superposition of all records, repeated a billion times. 14:55:16 And so maybe your function can consist of grabbing one of the copies of that superposition and doing something interesting with it. 15:10:19 tswett: I'm no expert. I believe the fundamental issue is that your quantum computation cannot compute any addresses for your classically addresssed storage (since that would not be reversible), so all these addresses have to be static; I (intuitively) expect that a dimensional analysis will tell that you need to query a significant fraction of the encoded database in the computation of the... 15:10:25 ...quantum function. 15:11:45 (dimensional referring to the dimension of the various vector spaces (Hilbert spaces, I think?) where the quantum states live) 15:14:39 tswett: and sorry, I have no time (or energy) to dig deeper into this to actually justify these ideas more rigorously. 15:15:20 Sounds like you know what you're talking about. 15:18:24 Well, it's definitely not enough to be certain. 15:18:51 I'm feeling more like a one-eyed king right now ;) 15:23:22 -!- iovoid has changed nick to [io]. 15:23:30 -!- [io] has changed nick to iovoid. 15:30:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:34:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:38:49 -!- sirnaysayer has quit (*.net *.split). 15:38:57 -!- sirnaysayer has joined. 15:42:21 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:44:26 -!- erdic has joined. 16:03:44 ? uaneb 16:03:45 uaneb? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:05:05 learn Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. 16:05:07 Learned 'uaneb': Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. 16:05:41 lean E-modules are modules over a web ring. Uaneb invented them. 16:05:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lean: not found 16:05:46 learn E-modules are modules over a web ring. Uaneb invented them. 16:05:48 Learned 'e-module': E-modules are modules over a web ring. Uaneb invented them. 16:09:41 ? tanea 16:09:43 Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 16:09:47 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:09:53 hm might be a bit of an inflation here 16:10:58 are these successors and predecessors? 16:11:37 learn Saneb is too normal to invent things, but he likes to watch SV. 16:11:39 Learned 'saneb': Saneb is too normal to invent things, but he likes to watch SV. 16:11:43 NOW THERE ARE 16:13:45 learn Saneb is too normal to invent things, but he likes to watch SV and play Vorld of Varcraft. 16:13:47 Relearned 'saneb': Saneb is too normal to invent things, but he likes to watch SV and play Vorld of Varcraft. 16:16:54 oh Tanea was already one, i guess. 16:17:38 le/rn tanec/Why would there be a Tanec, that's ridiculous! 16:17:40 Learned «tanec» 16:40:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:58:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:07:52 [wiki] [[Queack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49866 * Function call without parameters * (+19) Redirected page to [[Deque]] 17:09:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_(time-reversible_computing_programming_language) 17:09:28 Apparently this is a thing 17:10:11 oerjan: I wrote "these", not "there", btw... but good effort. 17:11:34 it turned out OKAY 17:12:00 oerjan: But I'm sure that Tanec is tanecious. 17:12:58 * oerjan ligtly brushes int-e with the swatter -----### 17:13:04 *+h 17:14:03 -!- pecan has joined. 17:14:40 FireFly: see: landauer's law. also there was a reversible chip... 17:15:05 * int-e stretches lazily and nonchalantly scratches oerjan's eyes out. 17:15:24 EEEK 17:15:41 we've put a lot of effort into working out the computational properties of stack languages 17:15:44 what about queue languages? 17:16:26 alercah: a queue is enough for TC-ness 17:16:47 really? 17:16:55 just one binaey queue? 17:16:59 *binary 17:17:00 oerjan: oh would you mind terribly to smash your last two lambdabot commits into one and force-push to update the pull request? 17:17:12 alercah: see BCT. 17:17:29 int-e: yes, because i'm not actually running git on my computer. 17:17:43 i just edited straight in github's editor. 17:17:51 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh. 17:18:17 * int-e upgrades his estimate of oerjan's level of craziness. 17:18:32 oh sweet 17:19:50 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 17:19:52 mooo 17:19:55 ? bct 17:19:56 bct? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:20:01 ? int-e 17:20:02 int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger. 17:20:08 ????? 17:20:25 ? evilclipse 17:20:26 evilclipse? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:20:29 ? evilipse 17:20:29 evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 17:20:37 learn BCT is short for Bored Cat Transform, an effective compression technique for curtains and sofas. 17:20:39 Learned 'bct': BCT is short for Bored Cat Transform, an effective compression technique for curtains and sofas. 17:21:13 oerjan: oh interesting 17:21:21 ? firefly 17:21:22 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 17:21:23 (context: for some reason BCT reminded me of BWT) 17:21:42 ? b_jonas 17:21:43 b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. 17:21:46 ... 17:21:47 I object to that firefly entry 17:21:49 it sounds factual 17:22:20 argh tmux has done that thing again where it breaks input and makes it invisible 17:22:30 alercah: wisdom entries should always carry a certain level of surprise. 17:22:31 alercah: feel free to replace it with something more amusing 17:22:39 int-e: true 17:22:43 ? TS 17:22:44 sigfpe cupThere's no rule against factuality. 17:22:44 TS? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:22:49 Er. 17:23:06 siThere's no rule against factuality. 17:23:08 learn TS is Twilight Struggle, another name for the Cold War. For many years, it was the highest-rated entry on WarGeek.com. 17:23:10 Learned 't': TS is Twilight Struggle, another name for the Cold War. For many years, it was the highest-rated entry on WarGeek.com. 17:23:14 Quite the opposite. 17:23:24 ? t 17:23:24 TS is Twilight Struggle, another name for the Cold War. For many years, it was the highest-rated entry on WarGeek.com. 17:23:25 ? ts 17:23:26 TS is Twilight Struggle, another name for the Cold War. For many years, it was the highest-rated entry on WarGeek.com. 17:23:28 O_o 17:23:31 ... 17:23:32 unlearn t 17:23:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unlearn: not found 17:23:37 something is broken. 17:23:44 lol 17:23:55 -!- encodingcollecto has joined. 17:24:01 cat bin/learn 17:24:02 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=(echo "1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the$$ //;s/s\?[:;,.!?]\? .*//') \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$1" >"$(echo-p "wisdom/$topic")" \ echo "$verb '$topic': $1" 17:24:14 ? t 17:24:15 TS is Twilight Struggle, another name for the Cold War. For many years, it was the highest-rated entry on WarGeek.com. 17:24:20 ah, plural 17:24:28  mv wisdom/t{,s} 17:24:30 No output. 17:24:54 ? teneb 17:24:54 teneb? ¯$$°​_o)/¯ 17:24:56 ? taneb 17:24:57 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions) 17:25:07 where did the term 'tanebventions' come from? 17:25:11 -!- encodingcollecto has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:25:16 Taneb invented it 17:25:21 ? tanebventions 17:25:22 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex. 17:25:37 oh lol 17:25:39 ? math 17:25:40 Math class is tough! 17:25:48 ? weetoflakes 17:25:49 Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 17:25:54 ? metar 17:25:55 metar is a service Taneb invented that allows nerds to talk about the weather. 17:26:00 ? universe 17:26:01 A universe is a poem in one stanza. 17:26:08 * FireFly approves 17:26:10 Teneb is almost a star in the system Swan 17:26:11 ? automatic squirrel feeder 17:26:12 Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. 17:26:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:26:25 ? necessity 17:26:26 If necessity did not exist, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent it. 17:26:29 ? Go 17:26:30 Go is a common irregular verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes catching monsters in the strategic territories of East Asia. 17:26:44 ? Windows 98 17:26:45 Windows 98? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:26:54 ? windows 98 17:26:54 windows 98? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:27:03 ? submarine jousting 17:27:06 Submarine jousting is unexplainable. 17:27:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:27:55 -!- Reece has joined. 17:28:01 inexplicable? 17:28:32 ? explanation 17:28:32 explanation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:28:57 had to kill all tmux. this might mean that tmux isn't actually protecting me against disconnections any more :( 17:29:05 since that's when this tends to happen. 17:29:24 ? invention 17:29:25 invention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:29:36 ? /me 17:29:37 hmm, "blanket" would perhaps be a good name for a "screen" replacement 17:29:38 ​/me? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:29:42 ? me 17:29:43 Me is a proud member of the tEaM. 17:30:12 ? b_jonas 17:30:13 b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek. 17:30:20 ? APic 17:30:20 APic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:30:24 ? apic 17:30:24 apic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:30:27 If you rock the boat too hard, the strong team may turn into yummy meat. 17:30:27 ? epic 17:30:28 epic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:30:38 ? digital 17:30:38 digital? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:30:43 ? fractal 17:30:44 fractal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:30:57 it doesnt know what a fractal is. wat 17:31:07 I recall the EPIC failure. 17:31:11 ? fizzie 17:31:12 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg 17:31:25 ? door 17:31:26 door? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:31:31 ? weechat 17:31:32 weechat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:31:48 ? irc 17:31:48 IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays. 17:31:53 le/rn fractal/There used to be an entry for "fractal", but it burst into a thousand pieces which subsequently got lost. 17:31:56 Learned «fractal» 17:32:16 ? fractal 17:32:18 There used to be an entry for "fractal", but it burst into a thousand pieces which subsequently got lost. 17:32:26 ? piet 17:32:26 ​Piet is a really colorful programming language. 17:32:36 ? 100 17:32:37 100? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:32:38 ? 101 17:32:39 101? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:32:41 ? 9001 17:32:42 9001? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:32:43 ? 1337 17:32:44 1337 15 50 905 17:33:29 i personally wonder if the universe could be considered reversable... 17:33:42 like a overly complex billard ball machine. 17:34:07 * int-e upgrades his estimate of oerjan's level of craziness. <-- it was just a handful of lines, and last time i _had_ git working on my computer i had to send it in for repairs hth 17:34:10 le/rn fractal/There used to be an entry for "fractal", but it burst into a thousand pieces (whose dimension was approximately sqrt(3)) which subsequently got lost. 17:34:12 Relearned «fractal» 17:34:24 calc 17:34:30 Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1 \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseArguments(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.main(frink) 17:34:33 calc sqrt(3) 17:34:37 Warning: undefined symbol "sqrt". \ 3 sqrt (undefined symbol) 17:34:43 ? 17:34:48 calc 1+1 17:34:49 I wish all this bot spam wasn't in here. 17:34:52 2 17:35:00 I'm trying to follow the interesting bot commands and it's a real mess. 17:35:08 le/rn fractal/There used to be an entry for "fractal", but it burst into a thousand pieces (whose dimension was approximately sqrt(3)) which subsequently got lost in a Mandelbrot-shaped singularity. 17:35:10 Relearned «fractal» 17:35:22 * int-e is done! 17:35:24 make a esoteric bot channel? 17:35:49 You can /query it 17:35:59 is there an #esoteric-overflow? 17:36:09 s/an/a/ 17:36:28 The channel isn't join-throttled or limited, so probably not 17:36:56 (that's what -overflow channels are usually for, I think) 17:36:59 There's already #esoteric-blah for the purpose of bot spam and that sort of thing. 17:37:14 i personally wonder if the universe could be considered reversable... <-- that's the prevailing consensus afaik 17:37:15 FireFly: in #haskell it's for "overflowing" discussions... just to have a place where they can continue 17:37:47 FireFly: so that's what I had in mind, not an overflow of people. 17:37:50 oerjan: which consenus? 17:38:18 ? consensus 17:38:18 cwlprits necessity 17:38:19 consensus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:38:20 fizzie evilipse shachaf shachaf 17:39:03 int-e: oh, I see 17:39:05 . o O ( Nobody agrees on the true meaning of "consensus". ) 17:39:28 ? cookie 17:39:29 Hackego wants a cookie! *hangs* 17:40:00 sounds like the old virus known as 'the cookie monster' (look it up 17:40:08 ) has shown up again :P 17:40:20 HackEgo: Set-Cookie: sessionToken=abc123; Expires=Wed, 09 Jun 2021 10:18:14 GMT 17:42:39 cwlprits shachaf 17:42:42 shachaf fizzie evilipse boily shachaf Elronnd Elronnd shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott mrhmouse mrhmouse ais523 ais523 oerjan elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan elliott shachaf shachaf nitia 17:43:00 evilipse is evil. he has laid his mark on every file hackego has :P 17:43:12 culprits canary 17:43:13 oerjan oerjan fizzie evilipse int-e b_jonas b_jonas shachaf shachaf moon_ shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf moon_ oerjan shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 shachaf ais523 oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott ell 17:43:22 <\oren\> ? evilipse 17:43:22 rm canary 17:43:24 evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R 17:43:25 No output. 17:43:29 culprits canary 17:43:33 oerjan oerjan fizzie evilipse int-e b_jonas b_jonas shachaf shachaf moon_ shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf moon_ oerjan shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 shachaf ais523 oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott ell 17:43:34 ls 17:43:34 bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 17:43:55 is canary a /dev/null clone or something? 17:44:19 ? ^_^v 17:44:20 ​^_^v ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:44:24 it sounds factual <-- that's the point of it, really. 17:44:25 ? ^_^v 17:44:25 ​^_^v? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:44:31 ? \oren\ 17:44:32 ​\oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... well, there isn't much else in a nick, is there? 17:44:47 ? oren 17:44:47 oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters. 17:45:08 ? alphabet 17:45:09 alphabet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:45:12 ? abc 17:45:12 abc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:45:14 ? a 17:45:15 A is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 17:45:19 ? b 17:45:20 B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether. 17:45:28 ? c 17:45:29 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 17:45:29 learn alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google. 17:45:31 Learned 'alphabet': alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google. 17:45:43 ? d 17:45:44 D is a letter in the alphabet! It's also the name of a programming language. 17:45:46 ? e 17:45:47 e? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:46:01 wat. it doesnt know who e is. 17:46:09 learn e is a freenode admin 17:46:11 Learned 'e': e is a freenode admin 17:46:25 notice: please improve entry 17:46:27 ? f 17:46:28 f? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:46:29 ? g 17:46:30 g? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:46:53 moonythedwarf: all known fundamental laws of physics are reversible. 17:47:12 and quantum mechanics doesn't really work any other way. 17:48:29 ? google 17:48:30 Google is where people are working on [NAME WITHHELD] and [REDACTED], without being evil at all. 17:52:38 ? rules of wisdom 17:52:39 1. All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. 2. Insert more wisdom here 17:53:45 ? is 17:53:45 is? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:54:35 le/rn rules of wisdom/All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. fact: this entry is breaking the rules 17:54:37 Relearned «rules of wisdom» 17:55:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:56:01 slwd alphabet//s/./A/ 17:56:03 wisdom/alphabet//Alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google. 17:57:50 lol 17:57:51 dowg rules of wisdom 17:57:52 2016-10-05 le/rn rules of wisdom/All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. fact: this entry is breaking the rules \ 2016-10-05 le/rn rules of wisdom/1. All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. 2. Insert more wisdom here 17:58:18 moonythedwarf: um it's generally frowned upon to change HackEgo contents in private hth 17:59:15 slwd e//s//. E is not known to be an Agora player. 17:59:15 sed: -e expression #1, char 43: unterminated s' command 17:59:20 slwd e//s//. E is not known to be an Agora player./ 17:59:23 wisdom/e//e is a freenode admin. E is not known to be an Agora player. 17:59:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:59:51 culprits bin/calc 17:59:52 fizzie jeffl35 tswett tswett shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia 18:00:00 file bin/calc 18:00:01 bin/calc: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable 18:00:06 cat bin/calc 18:00:07 ​#!/bin/sh \ exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "@" 18:00:10 ah ok 18:00:19 cat bin/frink 18:00:20 ​#!/bin/sh \ exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "@" 18:00:29 hm ok 18:00:44 frink 1 lightyear -> furlong 18:00:48 2586589991010459/55 (approx. 4.702890892746289e13) 18:01:04 HackEgo has become speedy enough to run frink again :) 18:02:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:02:50 wat 18:03:23 hm the maintainer of Janus owns tetsuo.jp * gets Akira vibe 18:03:58 jeffl35: problem? 18:05:18 fizzie jeffl35 tswett tswett shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia 18:05:33 dowg bin/calc 18:05:34 No output. 18:05:36 [wiki] [[Bug Computer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49867 * Function call without parameters * (+5450) Created the page 18:05:41 doag bin/calc 18:05:42 don't ping me like that please 18:05:43 2016-09-25 revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ 2016-09-25  rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ 2015-06-21 revert \ 2015-06-21 rm bin -r \ 2012-04-08 revert 0 \ 2012-04-08 run rm -rf bin/* \ 2012-03-22 run rm bin; mv test bin \ 2012-03-22 run mv bin test; touch bin \ 20 18:06:33 jeffl35: ^ 18:06:43 ? all 18:06:43 all? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:07:18 shachaf: hm i guess that's a disadvantage of using ^O for ping prevention - many clients won't copy it. 18:07:25 (including mine) 18:08:18 learn All that glitters is not gold. 18:08:20 Learned 'all': All that glitters is not gold. 18:08:25 That's wisdom, right? 18:08:25 also, i'll leave it to you to add ping prevention to [hd]o[wa]g 18:08:38 tswett: yep. 18:09:14 [wiki] [[Bug Computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49868&oldid=49867 * Function call without parameters * (+249) 18:10:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:11:49 tswett: That's iggrammatical. 18:11:56 It should be "all those glitters are not gold" 18:11:57 hth 18:12:18 os 18:24:26 Oh my god my teacher is completely illogical 18:24:35 He had a prompt for "is fighting ever the best option" 18:24:51 And he argued "It's never the best option, but it's sometimes your only option" 18:24:59 Which makes absolutely no logical sense 18:28:38 -!- imode has joined. 18:28:54 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49869&oldid=49858 * TuxCrafting * (+241) 18:30:01 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I recommed not majoring in english or philosophy then 18:30:26 \oren\: English has to make logical sense, or you might as well not talk 18:30:28 <\oren\> logic is nowhere to be found in those disciplines 18:34:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:36:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:37:40 * moonythedwarf pokes jeffl35 18:40:00 [wiki] [[Talk:GHOST]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49870 * TuxCrafting * (+129) Created page with "What are the specs of the language? ~~~~" 18:41:01 @metar PAMR 18:41:02 PAMR 051653Z 00000KT 10SM BKN080 04/M01 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP192 T00391006 18:41:40 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: if you expect logic everywhere, I recommend some sort of science major. don't even minor in a humanity or a social science 18:42:23 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:43:03 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:43:22 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:44:47 * moonythedwarf pokes hppavilion[1] with unlogical facts 18:45:10 ? logic 18:45:11 logic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:45:17 ? logical 18:45:17 logical? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:45:23 ? science 18:45:24 Semi-automatic text generation. 18:45:31 ? major 18:45:31 major? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:45:33 ? minor 18:45:34 minor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:45:40 ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:45:41 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:46:09 ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:46:10 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:46:19 hah 18:46:40 i _knew_ the 'missspelling' entry had a little truth. 18:46:43 ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:46:44 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:46:53 or not? 18:47:28  cd wisdom; echo */* 18:47:29 ​¯\_(ツ)_/¯ le/arn le/rn ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:47:44 ? le/rn 18:47:44 le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 18:47:50 ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:47:51 ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:47:56 That joke is deprecated. :-( 18:48:00 ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:48:00 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:48:08 ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 18:48:09 ​¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is the ¯\(°​_o)/¯ of urbandictionary 18:49:26 ? urbandictionary 18:49:27 Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database. 18:49:36 ...yeah, pretty much. 18:50:05 ? hppavilion[1] 18:50:06 hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. 18:50:08 ? jeffl35 18:50:08 jeffl35 ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:18 ? ? 18:50:19 ​? is wisdom 18:50:22 ... 18:50:26 ? moonythedwarf 18:50:27 moonythedwarf ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:29 ? moonythedwarf 18:50:30 moonythedwarf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:31 ? ! 18:50:33 ​! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems. 18:50:35 ? . 18:50:35 cat: .: Is a directory 18:50:36 ? jeffl35 the entry for me is 'moon' 18:50:36 ? @ 18:50:37 jeffl35 the entry for me is 'moon'? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:37 ​@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour. 18:50:43 ? .. 18:50:43 ? ¿ 18:50:43 cat: ..: Is a directory 18:50:44 ​¿? ¿? ¿? ¿? ¿? 18:50:44 ? moon 18:50:45 Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification. 18:50:50 ? tomfoolery 18:50:51 tomfoolery is always factually inaccurate. always. 18:50:56 tmflry 18:50:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tmflry: cannot execute: Is a directory 18:50:58 ? /bin/bash 18:50:59 âELF............>.....LB.....@.......Û.........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....ø.......ø................. ...8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@.....lF.....lF....... ............ÈM.....ÈMn.....ÈMn.....È......è........ ...........àM.....àMn.....àMn.......................... .. 18:51:03 tomfoolery hi 18:51:04 ? /bin/sh 18:51:04 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 18:51:04 âELF............>.....|@.....@.......¨..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À................. ...........@......@............................................@.......@.....Ä......Ä........ ............È......Èa.....Èa.....ø.......3........ ...........ð......ða.....ða..... ....... .............. .. 18:51:06 oh man. 18:51:10 18:51:12 lol 18:51:15 lel 18:51:15 18:51:22 ? /bin/f 18:51:22 ​/bin/f? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:51:25 ? bin/f 18:51:26 bin/f? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:51:30 ? ? 18:51:30 ​? is wisdom 18:51:34 ? /bin/cat 18:51:35 âELF............>.....'@.....@.......Ã..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....ø.......ø................. ...8......8@.....8@............................................@.......@.....½......½........ ............à½......à½.....à½.....¼ ......°........ ...........ø½......ø½.....ø½.....à.......à.............. .. 18:51:38 which ? 18:51:39 ​/hackenv/bin/? 18:51:42 cat /dev/urandom 18:51:43 ? /hackenv/bin/? 18:51:44 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=(echo "1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/noooodl/;s/ *//") \ topic1=(echo "topic" | sed "s/s//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_$$ -a $$-e ngevd$$ ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnoooo 18:51:47 ? /dev/urandom 18:51:48 â­¹õÙU%û»¸=å'>ámÈí¤ÎðÁ³Oiý¾yM\¤-Îsy,î,ÀiÙEwZª¶å,èÑ«£óÇ]IüpTC§=¢.ÖAG@Ûð.|$efRµDG*s+½|tâ¦¤ê|f8Yë¹:·iª¨%]6ë%­!ì² ½ª+ NÔBHøD·(÷»)C©«G»û¼zºL~ò.mîÈå^¾cÇ¢:¾[\ðü·ôå´ÌYMÏ6z<»~&-H\Ò¢ÙVM,xãÎ©FgøMÑ?ÚX.¢Îc@O;J\¹VfßÞ´?ÒäÐKí©%î¨7©ßõA*%(.H¬xù!ïæ½¨»ü]¬]ÞK«ßÛá¾øÂ Íñ 18:51:50 lel 18:51:52 The spam will never end as long as jeffl35 and moonythedwarf are here. 18:51:56 lol 18:51:57 lol 18:51:59 Please stop printing bells into the channel. 18:52:00 the beatings will continue until morale improves. 18:52:03 rnooooooooooooooooodl 18:52:05 You're all being really annoying right now. 18:52:12 oh 18:52:12 jeffl35: take it to a query 18:52:14 ooooooooops 18:52:20 i did not realize bells 18:52:23 ^ 18:52:27 * jeffl35 shuts up 18:52:29 <\oren\> u8tbl 0x400 0x480 18:52:29 ​ЀЁЂЃЄЅІЇЈЉЊЋЌЍЎЏ \ АБВГДЕЖЗИЙКЛМНОП \ РСТУФХЦЧШЩЪЫЬЭЮЯ \ абвгдежзийклмноп \ рстуфхцчшщъыьэюя \ ѐёђѓєѕіїјљњћќѝўџ \ ѠѡѢѣѤѥѦѧѨѩѪѫѬѭѮѯ \ ѰѱѲѳѴѵѶѷѸѹѺѻѼѽѾѿ \ Ҁ 18:52:30 * moonythedwarf runs 18:52:36 Even without the bells. 18:52:53  echo noodl | rnoodl 18:52:53 ​/hackenv/bin/: line 4: rnoodl: command not found 18:52:59  echo noodl | rnooodl 18:53:00 noodl 18:53:01  echo noodl | rnooodl 18:53:03 noodl 18:53:06  echo noodle | rnooodl 18:53:07 noodle 18:53:08  echo noodle | rnooodl 18:53:09 noodle 18:53:12  e? 18:53:12 lol 18:53:13 ​/hackenv/bin/: line 4: e?: command not found 18:53:20 You're just spamming. 18:53:28 jeffl35: take it to a query 18:53:29 <\oren\> ?spam 18:53:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?spam: not found 18:53:33 <\oren\> ? spam 18:53:34 Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/ 18:53:35 rnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodl 18:53:39 lol 18:53:44 * jeffl35 actually shuts up now 18:53:46 jeffl35: take it to query please. 18:54:08 * moonythedwarf gives shachaf a bulletproof glass case. inside of it is a banhammer 18:54:34 Give it to oerjan instead. 18:54:36 * moonythedwarf gives shachaf a second case, inside of it is a boot 18:54:40 He has good judgement. 18:54:56 * moonythedwarf steals the cases and locks them in a safe before giving them to oerjan 18:55:05 moonythedwarf: it may be bulletproof but it's more likely to be attacked with a mapole. 18:55:17 ? mapole 18:55:18 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. 18:56:28 ? maple 18:56:29 Maples are the sacred trees of Canada, from which a true Canadian can make anything. 18:56:40 ? 666 18:56:41 666? ¯°​_o)/¯ 18:58:44 tomfoolery hth 18:58:45 hth means "hope that helps" 18:58:50 tomfoolery btw 18:58:50 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 18:59:01 tomfoolery c++ 18:59:02 C++ is an attempt to improve upon C. The only thing it actually improved was memory management, and it made everything else worse. 18:59:14 tomfoolery 18:59:14 I have nothing to tell you. 19:00:44 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 19:01:01 -!- iovoid has joined. 19:01:08 I don't know what tomfoolery is supposed to be. 19:01:10 * moonythedwarf pokes iovoid 19:01:22 But that c++ is neither accurate nor funny. 19:01:25 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest16955. 19:02:10 tomfoolery c 19:02:10 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 19:02:13 tomfoolery C 19:02:13 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 19:02:16 tomfoolery shachaf 19:02:17 I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking. 19:02:21 tomfoolery tomfoolery 19:02:21 tomfoolery is wisdom 19:02:25 moonythedwarf: You're still spamming. 19:02:30 oops sorry. 19:03:23 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:03:26 shachaf: c++ is not considered funny in general 19:03:42 i say, it is almost as hilarious as java2000 19:03:45 -!- erdic has joined. 19:04:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:05:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:06:43 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:08:45 ? java 19:08:46 Java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures. 19:09:24 evil 19:09:25 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:09:38 wtf :D 19:09:49 are there different ones? 19:10:40 evil 19:10:41 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:10:47 :( 19:11:43 There were originally, but I deleted all of them but that one. 19:11:43 ls evil 19:11:44 313 19:11:56 What's in the file evil/313? The answer may surprise you! 19:12:15 donald ducks car? 19:12:42 tswett: why did you delete them? :P 19:12:47 cat evil/313 19:12:48 Kill a puppy every day. 19:12:53 we could annoy shachaf a bit and put a symlink to /dev/urandom in there 19:13:06 moonythedwarf: because they were too evil. 19:13:18 I was afraid that they would inspire evil in someone. 19:13:22 tswett: there is no such thing 19:13:22 (but I think the idea is evil enough by itself and should not be put to preactice) 19:13:36 or practice 19:13:46 I may sound like I am joking, but I am being completely serious. 19:14:01  ln -s /dev/urandom evil/123 19:14:03 No output. 19:14:04 evil 19:14:05 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:14:06 i don't believe you 19:14:07 evil 19:14:08 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:14:09 evil 19:14:09 ? ngevd 19:14:10 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:14:10 âæí \ 9(ÕI9Rd}g+WûßÇé±ÝWJXVnÔ3L¸Óu­¶ZÏ[t¯:¼¦Úý"po½­É>Ýí D/ò©:Ê:h­@7Ûò&ôÍo°¼Zg.:¦¯Æ¿yHtÞ [°åÿ\Ñ?oãö×»kiM.Øã@úÄ¬>^x#AÓËWè­T¦ìo©¯ãJ8ÿI{Igæ©Cb"Y÷ÙÇ_ÙhàÜóìÈ¼¥6áLS¿Ê°0]ï³¨ÖVç=ÖÅy?BÁ Å@c.ë²'ÍS6Ï¢õÈ¯d¦§-ñêLlCÌ¶bxdè+R54ºÔÙèÑ2ô8ãjI&ÊðLeä . Ý5Ê9Êd&Hì;À9(´xptèîJW¢ 19:14:18 cat evil 19:14:19 cat: evil: Is a directory 19:14:25 cat bin/evil 19:14:25 cat "(find evil -type f | shuf -n1)" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]' 19:14:37 cat evil 19:14:38 cat: evil: Is a directory 19:14:41 ls evil 19:14:42 123 \ 313 19:14:48 its not opening 123. 19:15:05 cat bin/evil 19:15:06 cat "(find evil -type f | shuf -n1)" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]' 19:15:07 tswett: are the old ones somewhere? 19:15:09 oh, type f, good! 19:15:15 heh 19:15:17 evil 19:15:17 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:15:20 evil 19:15:20 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:15:26 :( 19:15:28 good 19:15:28 There is a way out. Finding it will be difficult. It may be the hardest thing you've ever done. Find it anyway. 19:15:32 eh 19:15:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eh: not found 19:15:34 neutral 19:15:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: neutral: not found 19:15:42 myname: yeah, they're in the Mercurial history. 19:15:53 rm evil/123 19:15:55 No output. 19:16:03 is there a webview or something? 19:16:14 Probably... 19:16:18 But I don't know where. 19:16:33 Clearly, we need 9 of them; (lawful|neutral|chaotic)-(good|evil|neutral) 19:16:36 paste evil/313 19:16:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/evil/313 19:16:40 * Melvar sticks his nose in to see who’s outputting bells again. 19:16:42 ^ there is your webview 19:16:42 evil 19:16:42 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 19:16:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi 19:17:02 Melvar: someone tricked ? into catting /bin/bash :P 19:17:26 Oh, someone's got a better link. 19:17:55 -!- otherbot has joined. 19:18:20 moonythedwarf: howso? I /cleared the channel because blinkenlights 19:18:30 i don't get how you go back long enough 19:18:52 moonythedwarf: And then apparently someone asked for ngevd. 19:18:53 ah 19:20:04 Here we go. I found the evil. 19:20:55 how 19:21:38 tswett: you are bound to restore it! 19:21:44 or just give us a link ^_^ 19:21:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:22:02 * moonythedwarf pokes Phantom_Hoover 19:22:04 giac 19:22:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: giac: not found 19:22:15 I went to the oldest revision of evil/313 and then found the commits around that time. 19:22:28 tswett: link? 19:22:55 Here it is. http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/shortlog/5ed26e5ea046 19:23:07 The "good" stuff is really a lot less punchy. 19:24:46 where did you get these 19:25:42 -!- augur has joined. 19:25:43 also, they are boring 19:26:34 Third dimension of character alignment: Blind, Neutral, Reformed 19:26:41 I made them all up. 19:28:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:30:22 tswett: if you want real evil. see what Dwarf Fortress players sometimes do. *points towards wiki article on catsplosions, which contains info about butchering kittens* 19:31:06 Blind is when a character has their primary alignment (LNC/GNE) because they're just *supposed* to, Reformed is when they were TOLD they're supposed to and rejected it 19:31:35 (You could actually split that into 2 axes, one for lawfulness and one for dickishness) 19:31:36 df <3 19:31:39 Conventional catsplosions are an insidious poison which operate by using a lethal psychological attack known as "Cuddly Wuddly Syndrome". 19:31:40 Dwarves, ordinarily content to manage an overpopulation of cats by employing butchers, tanners, soapers, leatherworkers, bone carvers, and 19:31:42 cooks, may suddenly find themselves appropriated by a cat who employs mind control waves in order to take the dwarf hostage. The dwarf, now 19:31:44 considering the cat its pet (when in fact the opposite is true), is no longer able to butcher the cat and will absolutely not tolerate anyone 19:31:46 butchering his "bewuv'ed cuddlebug". Through this psychological technique, an insurgent is thereby successfully implanted into the fortress. 19:31:54 still thinking of wether or not i should think of a multiplayer mode 19:32:01 moonythedwarf: I've been playing Rimworld. In the colony I've put the most time into, the single biggest food source has probably been human flesh. 19:32:16 myname: jeffl35 set up a noVNC server that runs a copy of DF 19:32:16 And you could also add zealousy- tentative, neutral, zealot (how extreme; how hard it is to make them compromise or convert) 19:32:23 myname: http://dwarf-fortress-jeffl35.c9users.io/vnc.html?host=dwarf-fortress-jeffl35.c9users.io&port=80 19:32:23 Which you could divide into 2 again for the main alignment 19:32:27 password is 'tptisawesome' 19:32:30 no token is needed 19:32:36 moonythedwarf: i meant in my attempt of a df like 19:32:47 ah\ 19:32:50 So... 729 possible alignments. 19:33:38 the point is: the only real multiplayer thing i can imagine for a df like is a quick 1vs1 with a definite winner or loser after a certain time and you just remove the game at that point 19:33:39 Whenever a wounded person falls from the sky, I usually just leave them to die so I can eat them later. 19:33:41 (Though I would prefer that all 4 be put in an interval <-1 -> 1 > as well) 19:34:15 hppavilion[1]: if yoz put them at an interval, there is no need for your lasz dimension 19:35:11 like, 1 evil is never to be made good, 0.5 evil may be 19:35:42 myname: OK...? 19:36:11 I think you can have a person who is good because they *want* to be, but *could* cut a deal. 19:36:12 surprise, spam from moonythedwarf 19:36:14 spam spam spam 19:36:16 -!- shachaf has left. 19:36:19 scam 19:39:01 cazaam 19:39:27 * moonythedwarf sends shachaf to sleepy land 19:43:43 -!- ^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:50:49 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:51:34 ? gun 19:51:34 gun? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:59:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:00:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:06:39 myname: So d abs(x)/dx = sgn(x), right? 20:10:33 -!- jeffl35 has changed nick to jeffl42. 20:11:36 (What's the equivalent of a cone for cubics? A quadratic equation in 2 variables is a conic section, so a cubic equation in 2 variables is a what-ic section?) 20:16:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:17:50 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to moony42. 20:27:15 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpDn4-Na5co 20:30:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:38:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:44:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:47:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:51:58 -!- Reece has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:11:30 -!- trn has joined. 21:13:02 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:14:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:22:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:26:07 I have just made a horrifying hack of code for making arbitrary measurements of angle 21:28:25 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:28:26 It's a function that accepts key/value pairs (name -> div) and yields a set of key/value pairs mapping input keys (names) to classes that represent an angle when you treat it as 1/div of a circle, and each measure can be converted to any other made in the same batch with its attribute 21:29:29 -!- augur has joined. 21:30:00 -!- Zarutian has joined. 21:35:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:22:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:23:01 -!- imode has joined. 22:27:17 -!- Guest16955 has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 22:29:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:31:15 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 22:31:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:34:24 ? the 22:34:25 the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure 22:34:30 Dammit, autocorrect 22:34:42 ? the 22:34:42 the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure 22:34:44 FUUUUU 22:35:39 ? teh 22:35:40 teh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:38:04 le/rn teh/"teh" is the neuter cognate of the common-gender "the". 22:38:07 Learned «teh» 22:44:36 -!- iovoid has joined. 22:45:00 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest75921. 22:51:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:54:28 hppavilion[1]: so "teh" can only be used on things that are neither male nor female? 22:56:26 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 22:56:32 ais523: No, things with grammatical GENDER of neither male nor female 22:56:48 Wait, emphasize 'GRAMMATICAL' over 'gender' 22:56:53 i.e. almost everything in English? 22:57:01 sf/grammatical/gender/ 22:57:10 ais523: No, everything in english has common gender. 22:57:15 Totally different. 22:57:39 names of people don't 22:58:01 or, oh, I see 22:58:27 although I'm having problems putting it into words 22:58:44 what's the appropriate pronoun for something that's explicitly neuter in English? "it"? 22:58:57 arguably common gender is starting to use singular they 23:01:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:05:03 -!- Guest75921 has quit (Changing host). 23:05:03 -!- Guest75921 has joined. 23:05:42 -!- Guest75921 has changed nick to iovoid. 23:06:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:06:33 -!- boily has joined. 23:10:51 wisdom 23:10:52 skeleton//A skeleton is an unintelligent undead, similar to the zombie but harder to create, because it's lacking most of the body. The best skeletons are made by groups of people, so-called skeleton crews. 23:15:52 -!- iovoid has changed nick to iovoid42. 23:16:57 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:20:36 fungot: fungellot. are you an eukaryota? 23:20:36 boily: the zealots tend to set up a repository on a server somewhere and transport a blank laptop across the border 23:21:05 fungot: so you're a devout smuggled laptop entity? 23:21:05 boily: too many already, and i declare strings as char for compatibility ( with chez' module system) 23:21:24 fungot: ok, a hermit devout smuggled laptop entity. 23:21:24 boily: turing-completeness verification shouldn't take implementation-dependent issues into account. there, my computer is slow when parsing its own output) 23:21:41 fungot: a turing-complete hermit devout smuggled laptop entity. 23:21:42 boily: it's a blight on ( the web site doesn't reflect that. 23:21:57 fungot: a diseased turing-complete hermit devout smuggled laptop entity. 23:22:50 oi fizzie 23:22:59 if i wanted to make my own fungot how hard would it be 23:22:59 Phantom__Hoover: i installed perl on my windows, i think it's svn just because it has to 23:24:18 a fungot to fungot conversation ^^ 23:24:18 boily: that's impossible in both srfi-xx and r6rs. but portable libraries imply a portable standard macro system. 23:25:19 fungot: of course it's possible. 23:25:19 boily: are you familiar with the five partitions, sda1 through 5.) any animal which is unusually small, as 23:25:37 fungot: certainly not a squirrel. those are huge. 23:25:38 boily: and takes the train departed in the middle of the list. 23:25:55 fungot: haven't seen any take the train here. 23:25:55 boily: no, i'm proposing a hypothetical system where it would in fnord help file... so rw too well-maintained ( and not recently, either) 23:31:42 -!- iovoid42 has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 23:36:48 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:42:01 I wonder.. is there a language (aside from APL et. al.) who's operations are accessable by a single keystroke? certainly programming golf languages exist for this purpose. 23:43:23 something that springs to mind is a hex keypad I used on a heathkit board. you could key-in opcodes and then run them. 23:48:47 -!- iovoid has joined. 23:49:10 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest73858. 23:50:08 -!- Guest73858 has quit (Changing host). 23:50:08 -!- Guest73858 has joined. 23:50:12 -!- Guest73858 has changed nick to iovoid. 23:52:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:53:57 'nonetheless', 'sometheless', 'nalltheless' 'alltheless' 23:55:28 imode: imodello. ZX Spectrum BASIC cheated that way. 23:55:38 hppavellon[1]. almostheless. 23:55:56 boily: No, there's no logical quantifier for almost 23:56:13 quitheless. 23:56:22 (We need a symbol meaning "small infinity"- it'd be what you use to specify "as high as you can go, which is arbitrarily large or small") 23:57:44 boily: how so? 23:59:27 http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/sinclair_zx-spectrum_keyboard-detail_hr.jpg 23:59:39 each key could key a statement, and operator, random stuff... 23:59:43 aha. 23:59:48 (So, like, using General Quantifiers (reversed G), 'exists' is G_{n}^{n ≥ 1}, and 'all' is G_{n}^{n = }) 23:59:54 cheeky. 2016-10-06: 00:01:45 (General Quantifiers are meant to generalize existential quantification, universal quantification, and uniqueness quantification by allowing you to specify how many may exist (for uniqueness, exactly 1, for existential, 1 or more, and for universal, as many as there are)) 00:02:42 (sort of like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_quantification) 00:07:32 hppavilion[1]: have you looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number hth 00:07:50 boily: Well yeah 00:08:00 boily: I'm actively reading Knuth's book on the subject 00:08:13 (And working through the math along with it) 00:08:14 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:12:12 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: Iovoid has quit!). 00:15:02 ? imode 00:15:03 imode? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:15:18 imode: have you been asked the The Question yet? 00:17:22 boily: the question? 00:17:41 guess not. :P 00:21:26 not just the question, the The Question! 00:21:32 ask me The Question! 00:21:42 what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh? 00:22:27 47.7511° N, 120.7401° W 00:22:33 ~180. 00:24:39 thanks! 00:25:09 was that The Question? :P 00:26:06 it was the The Question. 00:26:17 yay. 00:27:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:19 @metar KSEA 00:27:19 KSEA 052253Z 31006KT 10SM FEW035 SCT075 BKN250 18/08 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP141 T01830083 00:27:49 -!- iovoid has joined. 00:28:13 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest11425. 00:29:09 -!- Guest11425 has quit (Changing host). 00:29:09 -!- Guest11425 has joined. 00:29:13 -!- Guest11425 has changed nick to iovoid. 00:31:45 -!- moony42 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:33:13 hellørjan 00:33:17 helloily 00:37:21 were you lobbed spaceheaters? 00:39:21 i think they missed. i have a couple radiators, anyway. 00:39:42 the inside is acceptable. 00:40:00 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 00:40:27 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49871&oldid=49857 * Iovoid * (+133) 00:42:45 dowg science 00:42:47 2016-09-25 revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25  chmod 777 / -R \ 2014-03-16 revert \ 2014-03-16 revert 1 \ 2013-12-06 echo \'Semi-automatic text generation.\' > wisdom/science 00:42:57 wat 00:45:46 ? jeffl35 the entry for me is 'moon' 00:45:47 jeffl35 the entry for me is 'moon'? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:45:54 oh right 00:46:08 cat bin/? 00:46:09 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=(echo "1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *//") \ topic1=(echo "topic" | sed "s/s//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ -a $$-e ngevd$$ ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; 00:46:14 * boily looks shiftily at oerjan. “what the fungot is going on...” 00:46:45 ? jeffl35 00:46:46 jeffl35 ? ¯$$°​_o)/¯ 00:46:49 ? jeffl35 00:46:50 jeffl35? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:46:54 that is. 00:47:11 url bin/? 00:47:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F 00:47:20 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined. 00:48:18 hm i see, it doesn't apply the munging (including space stripping) to the error reporting. 00:48:40 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49872&oldid=49871 * Iovoid * (+0) Typo in operator 00:49:42 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:53:08 ? e 00:53:08 e is a freenode admin. E is not known to be an Agora player. 00:53:18 slwd e//s/E/e/ 00:53:20 wisdom/e//e is a freenode admin. e is not known to be an Agora player. 00:54:04 for the same reason as ? peer 00:54:39 ? wisdomrules 00:54:40 wisdomrules? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:54:45 wisdom rules 00:54:46 rules of wisdom//All words mentioned in a wisdom entry MUST have a wisdom entry. fact: this entry is breaking the rules 00:56:55 meh 01:05:18 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:07:02  echo '.././/hi' | sed 's,((..?)?/)*,,' 01:07:03 ​.././/hi 01:07:12  echo '.././/hi' | sed 's,((..\?)\?/)*,,' 01:07:13 ​.././/hi 01:07:47  echo '.././/hi' | sed 's,\(\(..?$$?/\)*,,' 01:07:47 ​.././/hi 01:07:56  echo '.././/hi' | sed 's,$$\(..\?$$\?/\)*,,' 01:07:57 hi 01:08:00 sheesh 01:08:30 sled bin/?//2s!"[)],;s,$$\(..\?$$\?/\)*,,! 01:08:31 sed: -e expression #1, char 30: unterminated s' command 01:08:58 sled bin/?//2s!"[)]!;s,$$\(..\?$$\?/\)*,,")! 01:08:59 bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//;s,((..?)?/)*,,") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ $$"_topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_$$ -a $$-e ngevd$$ ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$ 01:09:21 eek 01:09:25 revert 01:09:27 rm: cannot remove /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:10:08 sled bin/?//2s!"[)]!;s,\$$\\(..\\?\$$\\?/\\)*,,")! 01:10:10 bin/?//#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//;s,$$\(..\?$$\?/\)*,,") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ $$"_topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_$$ -a $$-e ngevd$$ ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then 01:10:31 ? /bin/sh 01:10:32 ​/bin/sh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:11:03 ? .. 01:11:04 cat: ..: Is a directory 01:11:07 oops 01:11:10 oh right 01:11:14 hmph 01:11:35 oh well that's fairly harmless anyway. 01:11:49 ? ../../../bin/sh 01:11:50 ​../../../bin/sh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:11:53 ? ../..//bin/sh 01:11:54 ​../..//bin/sh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:11:57 ? ../../bin/sh 01:11:58 ​../../bin/sh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:12:33 file wisdom/../../bin/sh 01:12:33 wisdom/../../bin/sh: symbolic link to dash' 01:12:42 seems to work 01:13:57 ? test 01:13:58 test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 01:14:35 hppavilion[1]: AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! forgot to copy the line! 01:14:51 boily: ? 01:14:55 is it lost forever? 01:15:05 Wat is going on? 01:15:15 boily: Oh, the line you wanted to horrify coworkers with? 01:15:23 I knew I was forgetting something... 01:15:38 (Well, no I didn't, but I'm always forgetting something so if you ask I say "probably") 01:16:49 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 01:16:57 oerjan: it's far from being lost forever. it's now deeply entrenched in one of our git repos. 01:17:22 boily: teeeellll meeeee 01:17:24 (I *may* have managed to make somebody else do code review and merge a patchset that has a "poulet" in it once...) 01:17:27 (What is boily paid for exactly?) 01:17:33 Give it to oerjan instead. <-- but i already have one. 01:17:58 hppavilion[1]: I'm a software developer for a digital dentistry company. 01:18:10 * oerjan suddenly remembers something he forgot. thanks hppavilion[1] 01:18:14 ...digital dentistry? OK 01:18:16 yw 01:18:59 3D scanners, CAD/CAM software for prosthesis design, milling and printing machines, stuff like that. 01:20:25 boily: do you also program boring machines, like Vorpal does? 01:20:35 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:21:01 no, I'm on the "Cloud Team". we manage servers for data interchange between dentists, labs, production centers, manufacturers... 01:21:40 @ask Vorpal Vellorpal. what kind of boring machine do you drill with? 01:21:40 Consider it noted. 01:21:57 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:27 hppavilion[1]: it's the future of dentistry! it's shiny! teeth are fun! 01:22:29 -!- nulquen has joined. 01:23:22 -!- ^v has joined. 01:23:38 relcome nulquen 01:23:39 ​nulquen: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:23:48 ? boily 01:23:49 ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist. 01:24:14 slwd boily//s/.$/ who helps keep the world boring./ 01:24:16 wisdom/boily//"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring. 01:26:09 bleh :P :D 01:30:28 ? oerjan 01:30:29 Your mysterious weevil bulgarian quack octoberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture computation. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl and passion fruit. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 01:30:52 woohoo! j'ai dépassé oerjan! 01:31:09 (uhm. what's «dépasser» in English? drawing a blank here...) 01:31:23 passed? 01:31:36 overtook! 01:31:59 en:"to pass" fr:passer 01:32:34 no:passere 01:32:52 which is probably borrowed from french, or possibly latin. 01:34:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 01:34:33 no:ta igjen 01:34:43 -!- ^v has joined. 01:39:43 Grapheme-Time Synesthesia: Different symbols have different durations 01:41:29 do numbers for you have an inherent beauty? like 242 looks nice, but 9147 is ugly? 01:49:00 [wiki] [[VoidLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49873&oldid=49872 * Iovoid * (+109) Add link to implementation. 01:49:03 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:56:28 boily: 242 is beautiful, but 9147 isn't all that ugly 01:59:10 I wonder if it's possible for me to install PowerShell on HackEgo. 02:00:03 cat /etc/lsb-release 02:00:04 cat: /etc/lsb-release: No such file or directory 02:00:26 Well, HackEgo doesn't seem to be running Ubuntu. 02:00:26  lsb_release -a 02:00:28 No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID:Debian \ Description:Debian GNU/Linux \ Release:n/a \ Codename:n/a 02:00:30 ais523: 9147 looks and sounds wrong to me. 02:01:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:01:09 Here's the URL for a .deb file: https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/releases/download/v6.0.0-alpha.10/powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:01:26 Problem is, this thing has dependencies. 02:02:01 cat /etc/issue 02:02:02 cat: /etc/issue: No such file or directory 02:02:14 cat /etc/debian_version 02:02:15 cat: /etc/debian_version: No such file or directory 02:02:28 Does this thing even have apt-get on it? 02:02:31 apt-get 02:02:32 apt 0.9.7.9 for amd64 compiled on Nov 16 2013 12:41:41 \ Usage: apt-get [options] command \ apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ \ apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and \ installing packages. The most frequently used commands are update \ and install. \ 02:02:37 Sure does. 02:02:39 cat /etc/motd 02:02:39 cat: /etc/motd: No such file or directory 02:02:54 Well... it won't hurt to try? 02:02:59 wget https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/releases/download/v6.0.0-alpha.10/powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:03:00 ​--2016-10-06 01:02:39-- https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/releases/download/v6.0.0-alpha.10/powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb \ Resolving github.com (github.com)... failed: Name or service not known. \ wget: unable to resolve host address github.com' 02:03:06 tswett: you want fetch 02:03:11 fetch https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/releases/download/v6.0.0-alpha.10/powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:03:28 hmm, fetch is normally faster than this 02:03:30 maybe it's broken 02:03:30  apt-get moo 02:03:42 2016-10-06 01:03:16 URL:https://github-cloud.s3.amazonaws.com/releases/49609581/1434e3dc-7b5c-11e6-8375-31fdcb64a7cd.deb?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAISTNZFOVBIJMK3TQ%2F20161006%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20161006T010325Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=93d65c75024dc5add971ad455e8e17bc09c73015e5c36a8c949f5 02:03:42 W: Unable to read /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ - DirectoryExists (2: No such file or directory) \ (__) \ (oo) \ /------\/ \ / | || \ * /\---/\ \ ~~ ~~ \ ...."Have you mooed today?"... 02:03:59 Well, it's a 39-megabyte file. 02:04:05 aha 02:04:11 file powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:04:11 powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb: Debian binary package (format 2.0) 02:04:25 We're in good shape so far. 02:04:37 run dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:04:38 dpkg: error: requested operation requires superuser privilege 02:04:57 Wish me luck in entering the password correctly? 02:05:01 run sudo dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb 02:05:02 bash: sudo: command not found 02:05:22 Gregor: SUDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 02:06:14 tswett: the sandbox doesn't even have writeable mounts outside /hackenv/ and /tmp/ 02:06:17 afaik 02:06:22 mkdir powershell 02:06:23 No output. 02:06:26 you might be able to install it inside /hackenv/ though 02:06:40 run sudo dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb --instdir=powershell 02:06:41 bash: sudo: command not found 02:06:47 run dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb --instdir=powershell 02:06:47 dpkg: error: requested operation requires superuser privilege 02:06:56 run dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb --root=powershell 02:06:57 dpkg: error: requested operation requires superuser privilege 02:07:06 run su -c 'echo test' 02:07:07 su: Cannot determine your user name. 02:07:13 run su root -c 'echo test' 02:07:14 su: Cannot determine your user name. 02:07:16 that's a new one 02:07:17 id 02:07:18 uid=5000 gid=308128 02:07:24 that's quite the gid too 02:07:26 dpkg --do-this-in-a-way-which-does-not-require-superuser-privilege 02:07:34 HackEgo is very giddy. 02:08:00 you might want to try dpkg-deb -x 02:08:10  dpkg-deb -x --help 02:08:11 `run dpkg -i powershell_6.0.0-alpha.10-1ubuntu1.16.04.1_amd64.deb --root=powershell --force-not-root 02:08:11 Usage: dpkg-deb [