←2016-11-01 2016-11-02 2016-11-03→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:01 <HackEgo> Learned 'ü': ü is the second derivative of the letter 'u' with respect to time.
00:00:02 <hppavilion[1]> (or something)
00:00:32 <oerjan> boily: host is DNS lookup. -m is the debugging option. not sure what the x argument does, the man page doesn't list it.
00:00:32 <hppavilion[1]> How does one represent the derivative of a variable 'i' or 'j' with respect to time, I wonder?
00:00:50 <oerjan> also, -t mx is lookup of mail records.
00:01:35 * boily is retroactively blinded by the tachionic flash of sudden hindsillumination
00:02:03 <boily> hppavilion[1]: your priorities are misaligned. you should always be prepared to hmong hth
00:02:15 <oerjan> `learn ü r üsing töö mäny ümlaüts tdnh
00:02:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'ü': ü r üsing töö mäny ümlaüts tdnh
00:02:19 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I'm always prepared, I just haven't needed to hth
00:02:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I added a binding for ü and Ü to my keyboard. Not sure why
00:03:05 <hppavilion[1]> Probably so I can say "über" whenever I want to and look schmancy?
00:03:13 <oerjan> huh
00:03:19 <boily> preparation is practice. practice makes perfect. you know what else begins with p? pterodactyl. I rest my case.
00:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, what do blind people get when they reconsider past actions based on newew information and approaches?
00:03:41 <hppavilion[1]> *newer
00:03:55 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/{u,ü}*
00:03:58 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/ü*: No such file or directory \ wisdom/u \ wisdom/uaneb \ wisdom/ub \ wisdom/umlaut \ wisdom/uncyclopedia \ wisdom/unicide \ wisdom/unicode \ wisdom/union \ wisdom/united states \ wisdom/universal property \ wisdom/universe \ wisdom/unlambda \ wisdom/unréliable \ wisdom/urbandictionary \ wisdom/ursala \ wisdom/usa \ wisdo
00:04:15 <oerjan> wat
00:04:26 <hppavilion[1]> The word "umlaut" makes me sad
00:04:50 <oerjan> ...
00:04:55 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
00:05:17 <shachaf> ?
00:05:25 <hppavilion[1]> It should clearly be either ümlaut or ümläüt.
00:05:28 <oerjan> shachaf: canary is still gone tdnh
00:05:35 <shachaf> oh
00:05:38 <shachaf> `ls canary
00:05:38 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
00:05:39 <oerjan> and our `learns aren't taking
00:05:44 <shachaf> `mkdir canary
00:05:45 <HackEgo> No output.
00:06:05 <oerjan> shachaf: after some thinking, i think that trick is entirely useless
00:06:39 <oerjan> because it won't actually prevent the canary from being deleted, it just leaves the repo and directory inconsistent
00:06:40 <fizzie> I haven't been following -- what did you invent now?
00:06:47 <oerjan> `cat .hgignore
00:06:47 <HackEgo> ​^canary/
00:06:54 <shachaf> `` ls -l tmp
00:06:55 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Nov 1 07:29 tmp -> canary
00:07:06 <boily> `? ü
00:07:07 <HackEgo> ​ü? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:07:08 <oerjan> fizzie: shachaf got a bright idea but it's not really doing what it was intended, i think.
00:07:14 <shachaf> fizzie: i invented a way to delete canary hth
00:07:28 <hppavilion[1]> ("üm̈l̈äüẗ" is technically correct but discouraged)
00:07:52 * boily lightly shakes hppavilion[1] to disperse the rampant diæreses
00:08:09 <oerjan> `le/rn ü/ü is the second derivative of the letter 'u' with respect to time.
00:08:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'ü': ü is the second derivative of the letter 'u' with respect to time.
00:08:17 <oerjan> `? ü
00:08:18 <HackEgo> ​ü is the second derivative of the letter 'u' with respect to time.
00:08:21 <oerjan> there you go.
00:08:26 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I've never been clear on whether di(ae|æ)resis is supposed to have æ
00:08:30 <fizzie> I'm a little tempted to add a patch to disallow .hgignore modification to the list of pending changes, it seems to be more trouble than its worth.
00:08:37 <hppavilion[1]> OK, yes
00:08:52 <oerjan> fizzie: can you fix it as containing ^tmp/ , then?
00:09:14 <shachaf> it just needs to contain .hgignore
00:09:15 <oerjan> i think the ^canary/ version is too troublesome.
00:09:20 <oerjan> shachaf: :P
00:09:22 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
00:09:27 <oerjan> NOT SURE THAT WORKS
00:09:35 <shachaf> `mk .hgignore//^tmp/
00:09:38 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore
00:09:44 <shachaf> `` rm tmp; mkdir tmp
00:09:46 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `tmp': Is a directory \ mkdir: cannot create directory `tmp': File exists
00:09:48 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia says "does" can never be written "dœs".
00:09:56 <shachaf> `` ls -l tmp
00:09:57 <HackEgo> total 0
00:10:14 <boily> hppavilion[1]: if you can ligature, lig it.
00:10:35 <shachaf> `` rm -rf canary; mk 'canary//cat: canary: No such file or directory'
00:10:37 <HackEgo> canary
00:10:38 * hppavilion[1] disagræs, as e can and dœs
00:10:42 <shachaf> oerjan: hth
00:10:59 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like "æ" should make the [ei] sound, or at least [e].
00:11:27 <oerjan> also, someone needs to wake up Gregor.
00:11:58 <hppavilion[1]> But in English, it usually makes [ɛ], and it's [æ] in IPA
00:12:16 <fizzie> I did manage to set up the letsencrypt thing so that https://esolangs.org/... will continue to work; the old StartSSL certificate was due to expire.
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00:13:05 <\oren\> no, ü is a smily face
00:13:42 <oerjan> fizzie: if you do that, could you also disallow outright deleting the tmp/ directory? that was what started this whole ^canary/ attempt...
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00:14:25 <\oren\> the RIDICULOUSLY HAPPY FACE
00:14:45 <oerjan> because emptying it is fine, but completely disappearing breaks commands.
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00:16:51 <boily> `le/rn ü/ü is the ridiculously happy derivative of the letter ‘u’ with respect to time.
00:16:53 <HackEgo> Relearned 'ü': ü is the ridiculously happy derivative of the letter ‘u’ with respect to time.
00:16:58 <hppavilion[1]> Anybody who gets a word like "æroplane", "Encyclopædia", "Archæ<anything>", etc. and DOESN'T spell it with an "æ" makes me sad
00:17:19 <hppavilion[1]> (in a spelling bee. Forgot to add that while constantly searching for more wærds)
00:17:43 <boily> HE\\OREN\. YOU SOUND HAPPY.
00:18:10 <hppavilion[1]> (Maybe wœrds?)
00:18:21 <hppavilion[1]> (What I REALLY need is an ao...)
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00:19:54 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Welsh lets you write IJ as a single symbol, iirc. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/%C4%B2_uppercase_ligature.svg hth
00:20:53 <hppavilion[1]> ꬱ is... interesting. It's an æ, but with schwa rather than e.
00:21:00 <hppavilion[1]> (* reverse schwa)
00:21:05 <hppavilion[1]> (** reversed)
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00:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> Must... find... øe ligature...
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00:24:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It may be of use to you
00:24:52 <oerjan> `slwd ü//s/der/second der/
00:24:54 <HackEgo> ​ü//ü is the ridiculously happy second derivative of the letter ‘u’ with respect to time.
00:26:26 <hppavilion[1]> IMO, unicode should be more combinational than it is; at the moment, it's just throw-everything-in-a-bag-and-give-it-a-number. Preferable would be to make more modular characters (like diacritical ones, but extended. And no precomposed characters, dammit.)
00:27:24 <hppavilion[1]> There is apparently a company with an Ø̈ in its name
00:28:33 <oerjan> most likely, several hth
00:28:41 <quintopia> helloily
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00:38:12 <boily> quinthellopia
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00:39:46 <moonheart08> derp3
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00:43:21 <quintopia> tell me boily
00:43:57 <boily> I tell you.
00:44:38 <quintopia> how would you write a program
00:44:59 <quintopia> to output a decimal number
00:45:06 <quintopia> in aubergine
00:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Did you notice it's a Ø with an umlaut?
00:47:07 <oerjan> no.
00:47:08 <hppavilion[1]> (a Ø? an Ø? Probably an Ø, but I'm not sure...)
00:47:13 <boily> quintopia: good question. thinking...
00:47:17 <oerjan> `unidecode Ø̈
00:47:42 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: the umlaut happens to completely overlap it, so it's invisible in putty hth
00:48:03 <hppavilion[1]> Now to invent a new curse word from my list of every 4-letter word fitting a set of simple structures, including many with special characters
00:49:07 <oerjan> gäap̈
00:49:14 <FireFly> I'm reminded by D[ou]bbeldusch, using the same logo in all scandinavian countries but having it read as Dobbeldusch in some and Dubbeldusch in others
00:49:28 <FireFly> re. the ø^H¨
00:50:22 <oerjan> FireFly: too bad "dusch" isn't the correct spelling in norwegian
00:52:48 <oerjan> * hppavilion[1] is considering S^S for some set S <-- that has the same cardinality as 2^S if S is infinite hth
00:53:02 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: tdh
00:53:06 <oerjan> i think i may have mentioned that already
00:53:18 <FireFly> oerjan: hm, too bad
00:53:27 <hppavilion[1]> tøñg.
00:53:35 <oerjan> (it's dusj)
00:53:43 <FireFly> https://www.lyko.se/globalassets/product-images/dubbeldusch-fresh--1482-101-0250_1.jpg?ref=422023 I always though their [ou] was clever
00:53:56 <boily> quintopia: maybe something inspired by http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Print_value_of_cell_x_as_number_for_ANY_sized_cell_.28ie_8bit.2C_16bit.2C_etc.29
00:53:59 <oerjan> it probably works in danish though
00:54:38 <boily> quintopia: aubergine has to loop over the individual digits until zero, add 0x30 to each of them, then print in reverse.
00:55:34 <boily> hppavilion[1]: have you tried the Canadien Multilingue Standard layout? great umlauty opportunities!
00:55:43 <FireFly> is it maybe different in nynorsk, or dusj in both?
00:55:47 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Oh, really? :D
00:55:52 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I've been making my own layout
00:56:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Identical to US QWERTY on the surface, but with altgr for lots of frequently-useful characters)
00:56:51 <FireFly> there's also us-international
00:56:57 <FireFly> and a bunch of other ones
00:57:13 <FireFly> though I went the "let's roll my own" way too
00:57:26 <quintopia> boily: i dont think the bf algos work
00:57:30 <FireFly> based on svorak-a1 instead of us qwerty though
00:57:47 <oerjan> FireFly: same in bokmål & nynorsk afaik
00:57:49 <quintopia> most require a number of cells proportional to the digits
00:57:55 <FireFly> Ah okay
00:58:06 <quintopia> aubergine had a small fixed number of cells
00:58:12 <boily> oh hm.
00:58:16 <boily> eh.
00:58:31 <oerjan> nynorsk would be slightly _more_ unlikely to use sch, i think.
01:04:18 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Do Canadians say "eh" in your region?
01:04:40 <boily> hppavilion[1]: no, we say «là».
01:04:46 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Ah, yes
01:04:57 <boily> quintopia: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.
01:05:01 * oerjan thought they said "tsé"
01:05:25 <boily> eille, tsé, là là...
01:06:00 <boily> hppavilion[1]: we also say «hein». it's a nice nasal, which you can hear if you call me!
01:06:03 <oerjan> (in my region people say "sjø", although i don't share that dialect)
01:06:23 <boily> is the sjø ingressive?
01:06:39 <oerjan> i don't think so.
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01:07:17 <oerjan> i think that applies more to "ja" around oslo
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01:09:56 <oerjan> . o O ( alas )
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01:11:09 <boily> . o O ( unalas )
01:11:40 * oerjan finds it very slightly annoying that tatham's Net puzzle starts the keyboard marker in the central light, rather than in the upper left where nearly all the other games do, and where he'd much rather start.
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01:37:56 <oerjan> <hppavilion[2]> Is there a name for "a perfect nonzero natural power of a prime"? <-- prime power is the usual term i think
01:38:49 <oerjan> unless you mean perfect number, in which case i think there aren't any
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01:40:04 <FireFly> Hm, I mainly associate ingressive "jo" with northern sweden
01:40:35 <oerjan> . o O ( it's only a matter of time before someone pastes that youtube link... )
01:50:47 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> I'll put 7.3 × 10²² kg. <-- i fear this may throw off the precious center of mass tdnh
01:50:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:51:50 <moonythedwarf_> hi oerjan
01:52:04 <moonythedwarf_> did you see my esolang concept i posted?
01:52:07 <oerjan> helloonythedwarf
01:52:39 <oerjan> only the part where ais523 claimed it inconsistent
01:52:53 <moonythedwarf_> lol
01:53:19 <moonythedwarf_> ![?])[?] you derp
01:54:17 <oerjan> i never derp it upsets my stomach hth
01:54:32 <moonythedwarf_> lol
01:55:28 <moonythedwarf_> well, ![?])[?] is a good example of a undecidable proogram in it (aka halts if and only if it doesnnt halt)
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01:58:46 * oerjan points godel to moonythedwarf_'s undecidable language
01:59:02 <godel> 2mm
01:59:06 <godel> can I see it?
01:59:48 <moonythedwarf_> im on mobile and cant get the doc link, oerjan xan you find the google doc link for me pls? kthx
02:00:23 <oerjan> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uUJvkuB5j6Km6CoxprBmzGzYg0Kp7h-Z13eWx5GJOwE/edit?usp=sharing
02:00:43 <moonythedwarf_> godel ^
02:01:06 <godel> cool
02:01:59 <moonythedwarf_> ![?])[?] is a good example of a paradoxical program. it only halts if it doesnt hal
02:02:40 <moonythedwarf_> *PARADOXIFY*
02:05:48 <moonythedwarf_> on th other hand, i beleive this language can simulate a turing machine(more specifically a oracle machine)
02:06:43 <moonythedwarf_> oerjan: what do you think?
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02:18:47 <moony> does a undecidable + uncomputable (read: paradoxical) esolang belong on the wiki?
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02:27:48 <alercah> moonythedwarf: why not
02:33:19 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: note that there's a difference between undecidable and truly paradoxical - in the latter, you cannot even _define_ what the correct outcome is.
02:33:36 <oerjan> *+case
02:33:52 * oerjan is sure he _thought_ "case". why didn't he type it?
02:34:36 <oerjan> i'm dropping so many words these days that it looks like i have bad grammar :(
02:36:48 <oerjan> moonythedwarf: and if you cannot _define_ what a program does, then it makes no sense to ask whether it's TC.
02:37:10 <oerjan> imo
02:46:25 <oerjan> (i'm not saying whether or not your language is that paradoxical, mind you.)
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02:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> My god...
02:56:48 <hppavilion[1]> Just to see what would happen, I put in θ as a variable name in Python
02:56:51 <hppavilion[1]> And it didn't complain
02:56:55 <hppavilion[1]> (Well, the IDE didn't)
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02:58:53 <oerjan> > let θ="Stop that!" in var θ
02:58:55 <lambdabot> Stop that!
02:59:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: lambdabot complained hth
02:59:55 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ........not exactly sure what just happened.
03:00:06 <hppavilion[1]> But I think you made god cry
03:00:18 <oerjan> again?
03:01:11 * oerjan thinks hppavilion[1] is easily confused
03:06:13 <shachaf> `type dot
03:06:17 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
03:06:19 <shachaf> ugh
03:06:22 <shachaf> `which dot
03:06:23 <HackEgo> No output.
03:06:36 <shachaf> good thing graphviz isn't installed
03:06:56 <oerjan> `dots Do you want this?
03:06:57 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dots: not found
03:07:01 <oerjan> oops
03:07:07 <oerjan> `döts Do you want this?
03:07:08 <HackEgo> Dö ÿöü ẅänẗ ẗḧïs?
03:07:10 <shachaf> otherwise it would conflict with timestamped, reversed file history, without including removed files
03:07:43 <shachaf> `cat bin/dots
03:07:44 <HackEgo> cat: bin/dots: No such file or directory
03:07:51 <shachaf> ööps
03:07:55 <shachaf> `cat bin/döts
03:07:55 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"
03:08:19 <shachaf> why not combining dot above
03:08:39 <oerjan> not sure.
03:09:11 <shachaf> combining maths above
03:09:14 <shachaf> `? taneb
03:09:15 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
03:09:21 <shachaf> `? tanebventions
03:09:22 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
03:09:27 <shachaf> Did Taneb invent combining characters?
03:09:30 <oerjan> no.
03:09:36 <shachaf> `? special relativity
03:09:37 <HackEgo> special relativity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:09:42 <shachaf> What, because it's too long?
03:10:10 <shachaf> `? dragons
03:10:11 <HackEgo> dragons? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:10:24 <shachaf> what's with all the undefined tanebventions tdnh
03:10:27 <shachaf> (taneb did not help)
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03:11:51 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep 'special|dragon'
03:11:54 <HackEgo> No output.
03:12:05 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | egrep 'special\|dragon'
03:12:07 <HackEgo> No output.
03:12:10 <oerjan> wat
03:12:19 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | egrep special
03:12:21 <HackEgo> 9258:2016-10-13 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#the triverse#special relativity#
03:12:26 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | egrep dragon
03:12:28 <HackEgo> 9481:2016-10-27 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#sand#&, dragons#
03:13:24 <oerjan> shachaf: they're on probation hth
03:14:49 <shachaf> oerjan: glad to hear that they have probative value
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05:38:42 <hppavilion[1]> I'm trying to figure out how one could possibly have a person outside of {0, 1, 2, 3} (in ANY language, not just when constrained by english)
05:40:44 <hppavilion[1]> (As a refresher: 1 := personal pronouns; "I/me" performs the actions; 3 := other person; "e/em" or variant performs the actions; 2 := listener; "you" perform the actions; 0 := null; whodunnit isn't referenced (not available in normal English))
05:42:51 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you might have a that/this distinction in the third...
05:43:20 <oerjan> i.e. distinguishing other close and other far away
05:43:27 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Doesn't Spivak technically include inanimate objects?
05:43:29 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, NVM
05:43:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I thought of that; maybe
05:44:05 <hppavilion[1]> But it'd be awkward to decide whether or not a character being omnisciently narrated should be referenced as distant or near
05:44:14 <oerjan> also, the plural ones should properly involve subsets; e.g. some languages distinguish inclusive and exclusive "we"
05:44:17 <hppavilion[1]> (Actually, I take that back, that would be a powerful tool for writers...)
05:44:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Ah, yes
05:44:40 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: A language with plural "you"; plural second person
05:44:49 <oerjan> and there's the reflexive pronouns.
05:45:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh?
05:52:37 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, those. I thought those were just variants on the other pronouns for different contextual usage?
05:53:36 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: in english, yes. but some languages use the same reflexive pronoun for all persons.
05:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oh?
05:54:00 <oerjan> e.g. czech.
05:54:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...like "yourself" or "himself?
05:54:20 <hppavilion[1]> s,\?,"?,
05:55:03 <oerjan> yes
05:55:25 <oerjan> iirc. wiktionary doesn't seem to have the word i remembered.
05:56:45 <oerjan> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/svoj#Serbo-Croatian looks equivalent.
05:58:18 <oerjan> of course that's possessive. trying to find if it's true for non-possessives too...
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05:58:51 <oerjan> ah yes, found the russian one https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8F#Russian
06:00:20 <oerjan> (presumably this is a common slavic feature. norwegian and german have reflexive pronouns but they're only for third person (all genders and numbers though)
06:00:23 <oerjan> )
06:00:40 <oerjan> (no:seg de:sich)
06:01:10 <shachaf> these pronouns have so many rules
06:01:19 <shachaf> but possessives are nine tenths of the rules
06:05:30 <oerjan> shachaf: that may be a _little_ exaggerated. but given that the possessives are inflected like adjectives but the others like nouns (well, very irregular ones), maybe 3/4.
06:06:11 <shachaf> it's 100% exaggerated and not serious hth
06:06:19 <hppavilion[1]> Linguistic annoyance: Proper nouns in the form of a possessive.
06:06:21 <oerjan> OKAY
06:07:51 <hppavilion[1]> For example, McDonald's (the restaurant). Pluralizing it is hard enough, but what's REALLY annoying is to try to discuss something belonging to the company. Or a thing belonging to individual establishments, but which many establishments have... X = McDonald's; Xs'. McDonald's'?
06:09:05 <shachaf> isn't "s'" only used for possessivizing plurals
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06:09:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yes
06:10:13 <oerjan> heh
06:10:30 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: But I'm referring to a thing owned by multiple establishments, or where each establishment owns a similar thing; like the parking lot. "McDonald's' parking lots are always dirty."
06:11:05 <pikhq> When referring to multiple McDonald's restaurants, I would be inclined to say McDonalds'
06:11:05 <hppavilion[1]> (pronounce roughly like <McDonald>z-z-z)
06:11:05 <oerjan> surely that should be McDonald'ses' hth
06:11:17 <shachaf> what oerjan said
06:11:27 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: I would too, but what if I want to refer to something that they all own?
06:11:39 <pikhq> I would leave the possessive as-is.
06:11:46 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: In general, what if I want to refer to something McDonald's possesses?
06:11:53 <pikhq> "McDonalds' parking lots are always dirty"
06:11:58 <hppavilion[1]> But that's something owned by some guy named McDonald
06:12:16 <pikhq> No, that's something owned by several McDonalds.
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09:28:42 <b_jonas> @messages
09:28:42 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
09:28:58 <b_jonas> happy end of the long weekend
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10:54:51 <boily> `wisdom
10:54:57 <HackEgo> tall//A Tall proof is a proof with a small hole, which can only be filled by another Tall proof.
10:54:59 <boily> @massages-loud
10:54:59 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9h 4m 11s ago: <boily> I'll put 7.3 × 10²² kg. <-- i fear this may throw off the precious center of mass tdnh
10:56:43 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan. only slightly. as the proverb says, "trust me, I'm an engineer".
10:56:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:57:54 <boily> . o O ( how can I @tell moony something... )
11:03:48 <izalove> try @tell moony something...
11:03:54 <izalove> hth
11:06:03 <boily> izellove. moony has many nicks; do I have to @tell to every one of them?
11:06:44 <izalove> no, only the nick moony will use the next time
11:06:52 <izalove> duh
11:07:57 <boily> ...
11:09:18 <boily> @tell moony mhelloony.
11:09:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:09:29 <boily> @tell moonythedwarf mhelloonythedwarf.
11:09:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:09:39 <boily> @tell moonheart08 moonhellort08.
11:09:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
11:09:48 <boily> let's start small, then adapt.
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12:54:35 <moony> moo4
12:54:53 <moony> @messages-loud
12:54:54 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 45m 35s ago: mhelloony.
12:55:00 <moony> olol
13:04:14 <moony> anyone alive?
13:04:28 <b_jonas> no
13:04:32 <b_jonas> `wisdom
13:04:34 <moony> lol
13:04:42 <HackEgo> mips//MIPS Is Popular in Schools.
13:04:49 <moony> b_jonas, i made a thing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uUJvkuB5j6Km6CoxprBmzGzYg0Kp7h-Z13eWx5GJOwE/edit?usp=sharing
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13:14:58 <b_jonas> It's so confusing, all these similar English words with "q" in them and some meaning related to destroy or crush or suppress. "squeeze", "squish", "squash", "quash", "quell", "quench" (this last one means to put out a fire).
13:16:20 <moony> lol
13:17:04 <b_jonas> "quash" is the one I just read now I don't recall having seen before, but since they're so confusingly similar I might just have forgetten that particular one
13:17:55 <b_jonas> This sort of thing works differently for me than for most native English speakers, since I listen to English very little and so pay attention to the spelling of words way more than the pronunciation.
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13:49:24 <b_jonas> tornadoes again.
13:49:31 <b_jonas> (in xkcd)
13:50:41 <moony> lol
13:59:35 <myname> i recommend the android app "the sequence" to anybody who likes bullying automatons
14:31:26 <b_jonas> `? ayacc
14:31:27 <HackEgo> ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from http://nethack4.org/media/alex/ayacc/ayacc.pl
14:31:36 <b_jonas> the location has to be updated
14:45:01 <shachaf> `cwlpris mips
14:45:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cwlpris: not found
14:45:09 <shachaf> `cwlprits mips
14:45:11 <HackEgo> oerjän ellioẗt oerjän boil̈y
14:45:21 <shachaf> `dowg mips
14:45:22 <HackEgo> 4531:2014-03-16 <oerjän> revert \ 4530:2014-03-16 <ellioẗt> revert 1 \ 4034:2013-11-20 <oerjän> learn MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ 4033:2013-11-20 <boil̈y> learn MIPS Is Popular In Schools.
14:45:33 <shachaf> `cat bin/hlnp
14:45:33 <HackEgo> revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(<[^>]*\)\([^>]>\)/\1̈\2/'
14:45:56 <shachaf> `sled bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 4530 | 4531&#
14:45:59 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/\(<[^>]*\)\([^>]>\)/\1̈\2/'
14:46:12 <shachaf> `dowg mips
14:46:14 <HackEgo> 4034:2013-11-20 <oerjän> learn MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ 4033:2013-11-20 <boil̈y> learn MIPS Is Popular In Schools.
14:46:28 <shachaf> `? mipis
14:46:29 <HackEgo> mipis? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:46:45 <shachaf> `learn MIPIS is Persecuted In Schools.
14:46:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'mipi': MIPIS is Persecuted In Schools.
14:46:59 <shachaf> `learn MIPIS Is Persecuted In Schools.
14:47:01 <HackEgo> Relearned 'mipi': MIPIS Is Persecuted In Schools.
14:47:04 <shachaf> ugh
14:47:14 <shachaf> Is that new?
14:47:18 <b_jonas> only I'm not sure what the new url was. I think it was mercurial-only, but don't know the exact url
14:47:29 <shachaf> `` mv wisdom/mipi{,s}
14:47:31 <HackEgo> No output.
14:47:41 <shachaf> oerjan: this is one no one uses `learn hth
14:47:47 <shachaf> this is why
14:48:08 <moony> `? hth
14:48:10 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
14:48:38 <b_jonas> it's something like http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc/ but I'm not sure what
14:48:40 <b_jonas> damn it
14:48:50 <b_jonas> does anyone know?
14:49:30 <b_jonas> ah! wait
14:49:45 <b_jonas> I think it's a darcs repository, not a mercurial one
14:59:54 <b_jonas> `learn ayacc/ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
14:59:54 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/ayacc/ayacc: Not a directory \ Learned 'ayacc/ayacc': ayacc/ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
15:00:01 <b_jonas> huh?
15:00:11 <b_jonas> `slashlearn ayacc/ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
15:00:13 <HackEgo> Relearned 'ayacc': ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
15:00:20 <b_jonas> `? ayacc
15:00:21 <HackEgo> ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
15:00:22 <b_jonas> that
15:12:25 <izalove> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2016-11/msg00005.html buffer overflow in bash and the proof of concept is [.[.*
15:12:31 <izalove> 5 fucking characters
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15:54:29 <\oren\> `? aisventions?
15:54:30 <HackEgo> aisventions?? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:54:32 <\oren\> `? aisventions
15:54:33 <HackEgo> aisventions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:54:35 <\oren\> `? aisvention
15:54:36 <HackEgo> aisvention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:54:44 <\oren\> `? ais523vention
15:54:45 <HackEgo> ais523vention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:54:49 <\oren\> `? avention
15:54:51 <HackEgo> avention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:54:54 <\oren\> ba
15:56:46 <shachaf> `? orinventions
15:56:47 <HackEgo> orinventions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:58:03 <b_jonas> `? orenvention
15:58:04 <HackEgo> orenvention? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:58:05 <b_jonas> `? Taneb
15:58:06 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
15:58:14 <b_jonas> it has a see also
15:58:16 <b_jonas> `? \oren\
15:58:17 <HackEgo> ​\oren\ is an attempt to improve upon oren. The only thing it actually improved was name recognizability, and it made everything else... well, there isn't much else in a nick, is there?
15:58:19 <b_jonas> `? oren
15:58:20 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters.
15:58:26 <alercah> `? alercah
15:58:27 <HackEgo> alercah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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17:48:47 <hppavilion[1]> Shouldn't "Contrast" just be "Pare"?
17:49:02 <hppavilion[1]> (Or, alternatively, "compare" becoming "trast")
17:51:01 <moony> hellovilion[1]
17:51:30 <moony> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uUJvkuB5j6Km6CoxprBmzGzYg0Kp7h-Z13eWx5GJOwE/edit?usp=sharing
17:51:34 <myname> shouldn't it be frige instead of fridge?
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18:30:29 <\oren\> myname: why?
18:30:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:30:42 <\oren\> fridge is short for refridgerator
18:31:28 <myname> huh? i only know refrigerator
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18:41:08 <izalove> geirha | The best fix for tomcat is rm -- llua | one of apache's missteps, like the apache webserver.
18:42:22 <alercah> truth
18:44:53 * hppavilion[2] . o O ( Shouldn't it be Wikipædia? )
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19:07:16 <hppavilion[1]> Congratulations! You win a video targeted at people with a fetish for cones full of yellow kernels!
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19:11:34 <hppavilion[1]> Oh my god. In English, a sentence can be additionally emphasized by adding more exclamation points!!!
19:11:36 <hppavilion[1]> </pun>
19:12:00 <hppavilion[1]> One must wonder what happens when you do it in spanish. do they have to balance, or..?
19:12:18 <Phantom_Hoover> that's not a pun
19:12:28 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: It's a punctuation
19:12:34 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, that didn't change the spelling at all
19:12:38 <hppavilion[1]> PUNctuation
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19:52:10 <hppavilion[1]> Is the adjective form of triangle (other than "triangular") better spelled "triangly" or "triangley"?
19:52:13 <hppavilion[1]> I'm going with the latter
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19:56:05 <FireFly> why not just use 'triangular'?
20:01:18 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: "triangle?y" sounds more childish
20:04:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[OOo CODE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50071&oldid=41109 * Trecio * (+53) Credits to the real author of included HELLO WORLD program.
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20:31:37 <\oren\> trianglish
20:32:00 <\oren\> triangleriffic
20:32:06 <myname> dreieckig
20:32:57 <\oren\> 三角的
20:33:18 <\oren\> (sankakuteki)
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20:35:14 <\oren\> trianglian
20:35:53 <\oren\> triangelic
20:37:25 <\oren\> tringlish
20:41:00 <\oren\> I just realized my font has accidental vertical ligatures
20:41:04 <\oren\> p
20:41:05 <\oren\> k
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20:50:58 <ais523> vertical ligatures don't sound that useful
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20:57:23 <\oren\> I don't understand why it's possible for a video to be out of sync with the audio
20:57:28 <\oren\> the format should be something like |FRAME|1/60s of audio|FRAME|1/60s of audio....
20:59:07 <\oren\> such that each frame and its corresponding audio are directly known
20:59:32 <ais523> \oren\: the audio and video are typically recorded separately (one using a camera, the other using the microphone)
20:59:46 <ais523> and when they're combined into a single container, sometimes the input is misaligned so the output is misaligned too
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21:24:02 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... is a vector in non-euclidean space an Elliptic Vector or Parabolic vector (depending on how non-euclidean the space is)?
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21:37:51 <shachaf> what is a vector in non-euclidean space twh
21:53:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: A euclidean vector is a vector in euclidean space, where here "euclidean space" means a space like that used in Euclidean geometry (though, usually with more numeric coordinates). A vector in non-euclidean space is a vector in a space that behaves like that used in non-euclidean geometry.
21:53:26 <shachaf> what is that
21:53:31 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Which part?
21:53:36 <shachaf> I know what a vector space is.
21:53:47 <shachaf> What's a "non-euclidean space"?
21:53:54 <shachaf> Is it a vector space?
21:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: (1) Space that behaves like non-euclidean geometry, where parallel lines either cross (Elliptical) or have a closest point (Hyperbolic) (2) Probably?
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21:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> ("Non-Euclidean Vector" seems like it would be a better term for it, but that could easily be interpreted as "a vector which is not a Euclidean vector")
21:55:36 <shachaf> What sort of vector space is it?
21:55:40 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, "Euclidean space" is a real thing, right? I didn't conflate it with some other last name?
21:55:49 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
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21:57:57 <hppavilion[1]> OK, from wikipedia: "In geometry, Euclidean space encompasses the two-dimensional euclidean plane, the three-dimensional space of Euclidean geometry, and certain other spaces". Non-euclidean space would encompass the equivalents for non-Euclidean geometry.
21:58:39 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...to be clear, the "Euclidean" in "Euclidean vector" specifically indicates that it's in Euclidean space, right? I assumed it did, but it might not...
21:59:13 <shachaf> "space" can have lots of meaning.
21:59:31 <shachaf> You can give Euclidean space lots of different structure, such as a vector space or a topological space.
21:59:50 <shachaf> But I don't know what a non-Euclidean finite-dimensional vector space over R would be.
22:00:01 <shachaf> (Because every finite-dimensional vector space over R is Euclidean.)
22:00:55 <shachaf> (Well, depending on what Euclidean means.)
22:01:03 <shachaf> (Which is why I don't know what it means.)
22:01:20 <shachaf> I don't even know.
22:01:40 <shachaf> I guess that's not true.
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22:25:16 <^v> https://i.pxtst.com/99f5d.png
22:25:16 <^v> https://i.pxtst.com/49734.png
22:25:16 <^v> https://i.pxtst.com/20310.png
22:25:16 <^v> https://i.pxtst.com/fcb40.png
22:25:24 <^v> (no spam, pls dont ban)
22:26:14 <^v> its slides from my vid
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22:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> A few weeks ago, we were talking about harm(onic plus)/Parallel Sum
22:50:50 <myname> 8
22:50:52 <myname> gna
22:52:44 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if there's an equivalent to the hyperoperations for it (Normally, H(1, a, b) = a+b; this is R(1, a, b) = a(+)b)
22:57:56 <Taneb> Almost all real numbers are transcendental, right?
22:58:19 <shachaf> Yes.
22:58:31 <shachaf> There are only countably many algebraic numbers.
23:00:20 <Taneb> Are there any commonly used proper subsets of the transcendental numbers such that almost all real numbers are in that subset?
23:01:03 <myname> R\Q?
23:01:28 <shachaf> That's a superset.
23:01:30 <Taneb> myname, that's a superset of the transcendental numbers, unless I am horribly confused
23:01:39 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Yes, I believe so
23:01:40 <shachaf> I don't know, uncomputable numbers?
23:01:47 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Almost none are... cedental?
23:01:52 <myname> ah
23:01:59 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], algebraic is the word I think
23:02:04 <Taneb> shachaf, ooh, that's a good one
23:02:04 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Ah, thank you
23:02:36 <hppavilion[1]> How do dictionaries in languages like French where words have several forms tend to work? Do they sort the words and provide all 4 forms?
23:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> (But then do they sort it by masculine or feminine form? Or do they include both, thus making the dictionary have up to twice as many entries)
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23:05:31 <shachaf> Taneb: Are you looking for the "smallest" commonly-used set whose complement is countable?
23:05:59 <shachaf> Cocountable, that's the word.
23:06:20 <Taneb> shachaf, I guess?
23:06:54 <shachaf> "undefinable" is a subset of uncomputable, I guess.
23:07:18 <Taneb> shachaf, can you give an example of an undefinable number?
23:07:24 <ais523> like that language I reviewed recently which had a program that halted if and only if it didn't halt?
23:07:32 <ais523> that's a computational class above uncomputable
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23:07:39 <ais523> I guess you could call it paradoxical
23:07:56 <ais523> (like, it's above the entire uncomputable hierarchy)
23:08:38 <ais523> I guess you can make a correspondence between uncomputable languages and infinities; you can't predict what an uncomputable language will do even with unlimited time, and infinites are larger than any finite number
23:08:55 <ais523> and just like some infinities are "larger" than others, some uncomputable languages can analyse others
23:09:09 <wob_jonas> hi, ais523
23:09:12 <Taneb> ais523, a program that halts if and only if it doesn't halt feels perversely related to a quine
23:09:13 <ais523> but "larger" than any infinity would be a number that's greater than itself (as opposed to merely being larger than /other/ numbers)
23:09:17 <wob_jonas> `? ayacc
23:09:25 <ais523> Taneb: you use the same techniques to make them as you do to make quines
23:09:33 <HackEgo> ayacc is ais523's yacc parser generator implementation, get it from darcs clone http://nethack4.org/projects/ayacc
23:09:40 <wob_jonas> ais523: ^ that's the current location for ayacc, right? it's not apparently mentioned on the websiute
23:09:50 <ais523> wob_jonas: yes, I need to move it at some point
23:10:06 <wob_jonas> you could create a short page on the website that tells this stuff
23:10:08 <ais523> as that page should logically be a web page describing ayacc, rather than a repository
23:10:45 <shachaf> `? tanebventions: math
23:10:47 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, locales, and histograms.
23:11:05 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Please define "smallest", "commonly-used", what the complement is relative to, "looking", and how a set can be a "who" :P
23:11:09 <shachaf> `slwd tanebventions: math//s#loc#the long line, &#
23:11:13 <HackEgo> tanebventions: math//Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, the long line, locales, and histograms.
23:11:19 <hppavilion[1]> (god the inanimate whose bugs me... it just sounds wrong...)
23:11:37 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I anthropomorphise that which none else can
23:11:53 <hppavilion[1]> Cale: coconutable?
23:12:35 <Taneb> ...also do the cocountable sets form a topology like the cofinite sets do?
23:14:57 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocountable_topology hth
23:15:12 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], by smallest I mean a minimal element in the poset (or is this a proper poclass?) of cocountable sets
23:15:28 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], the complement is relative to the real numbers
23:15:57 <Taneb> By "I am looking for X" I mean "I am curious about how X is defined"
23:16:12 <shachaf> Taneb: the long line is pretty good, thanks for inventing it
23:16:17 <Taneb> By "commonly used" I probably mean "Has a cool name and a Wikipedia page"
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23:17:06 <shachaf> Taneb: You're just talking about subsets of the reals, right?
23:17:10 <shachaf> So just a poset.
23:17:11 <Taneb> shachaf, yes
23:17:40 <Taneb> Yeah, it would be, wouldn't it
23:18:00 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PO-class
23:18:18 <shachaf> `? yugoslavia
23:18:22 <HackEgo> yugoslavia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:22:19 <shachaf> @google largest countable subset of the real
23:22:20 <lambdabot> https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-set-of-real-numbers-that-can-be-defined-by-a-finite-definition-lets-call-them-the-definable-reals-is-the-largest-possible-countable-subset-of-the-real-
23:22:20 <lambdabot> numbers
23:22:28 <shachaf> what a scow url tdnh
23:23:35 <Taneb> My instinct is "Either that is the reals or it is not the largest possible countable subset of the reals"
23:24:04 <shachaf> It's certainly not the reals.
23:24:09 <Taneb> Well then
23:24:17 <shachaf> And it's not the largest countable subset of the reals either.
23:24:35 <shachaf> For example you can add any countable number of reals to it.
23:24:57 <Taneb> That's... that's a simpler proof than mine
23:25:29 <Taneb> Although the way I would have done it gets you a field
23:25:35 <Taneb> (I believe the definable numbers form a field?)
23:26:21 <shachaf> did you just tanebvent something
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23:26:30 <Taneb> I don't think so
23:26:52 <Taneb> If I have I haven't named it
23:27:08 <shachaf> Well, only a countable number of tanebventions are nameable.
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23:30:17 <shachaf> did Taneb invent Count von Count
23:30:29 <Taneb> You can count on it
23:30:44 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, assuming finitary tanebvention names of course
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23:36:06 <oerjan> `le/rn Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
23:36:10 <HackEgo> No output.
23:36:15 <oerjan> @messages-
23:36:15 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 39m 32s ago: hellørjan. only slightly. as the proverb says, "trust me, I'm an engineer".
23:36:17 <oerjan> oops
23:36:22 <oerjan> `learn Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
23:36:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'dragon': Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
23:39:38 <Taneb> oerjan, did you know dragons work in base -1 plus or minus i
23:39:52 <oerjan> nope!
23:42:12 <Taneb> (if you plot the numbers representable in a fixed number of bits in base -1 plus or minus i on an Argand diagram, you get the twin dragon fractal)
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23:44:35 <oerjan> "The complex plane is sometimes called the Argand plane because it is used in Argand diagrams." and then no explanation of what they are, despite the term redirecting there.
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23:45:38 <Taneb> An Argand diagram is just a 2D plot of complex numbers where the real component is the x axis and the imaginary component the y axis
23:45:48 <moonheart08> ^
23:46:07 <Taneb> You can view it as a linear transformation from C as an R-vector space to R^2
23:46:11 <moonheart08> @messages_loud
23:46:11 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 36m 31s ago: moonhellort08.
23:46:11 <oerjan> Taneb: i think i'd have understood you easier if you had just said "complex plane" then.
23:46:24 <moonheart08> ??
23:46:37 <Taneb> oerjan, sorry
23:47:11 <oerjan> moonheart08: boily is a bit annoyed at your changing nick, so he @telloed all of them hth
23:47:56 <moonheart08> olol
23:48:35 <oerjan> it makes @tell rather useless when you don't know what nick to use...
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23:53:08 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Cro wouldn't happen to be the German equivalent of Justin Bieber or something, would he?
23:54:26 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Boeing makes very complex planes
23:56:53 <myname> hppavilion[1]: it's cute how you assume i have the slightest idea about pop culture
23:57:15 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Excellent, just as planned.
23:57:40 <hppavilion[1]> (Wait, is this limited to 'murican pop culture- you could answer given context- or is it any pop culture at all?)
23:57:54 <myname> the second part
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