00:14:24 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:16:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 00:20:42 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 00:21:56 32kb file with 900 lines of markdown 00:22:14 how long do you expect the rendering process to be? 00:22:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:23:49 i'm trying several markdown things for terminals 00:23:55 and none of them takes less than 2s 00:31:10 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:36:39 izalove: I can't see it taking enough time for a human to notice 00:36:47 with a properly optimized implementation 00:37:07 that's what i'm starting to write 00:42:21 [wiki] [[BurgerFlipper]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50159&oldid=50158 * Zemeckis * (+11) 01:05:47 -!- godel has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 01:34:47 If I want to calculate quantiles of data that is arranged in an array where the sample data is the index and the value is how many samples have that value, is there any better way to calculate it than to put them into a list and then sort it? 01:35:59 (I also have the sum of the data, and the total number of samples, precalculated, in case that helps) 01:39:18 zzo38: aren't they already sorted, essentially? 01:40:34 oerjan: I suppose they are, yes. 01:40:56 It should not be too difficult to iterate through it. 01:41:02 I just forgot! 01:41:13 zzo38: in that case, calculate partial sums of number of samples up to each index, and from then you can use binary search. 01:41:17 But, you are correct; if the total number of samples is known, it is easy. 01:41:29 (if you want to calculate many) 01:42:29 oerjan: Yes, that is similar to what I thought of right after you mentioned they are already sorted. 01:44:21 in fact, calculating the partial sums also gives you the total, if you haven't already precalculated it. 01:45:03 Yes of course it does 01:46:50 My thoughts did not involve binary search though; I just thought, calculate partial sums until you come to 1/4 of the total number of samples and then that is the first quartile, and so on. 01:47:44 yes; binary search is only good if you want to be able to look up quantiles easily later. 01:55:54 (I don't know why I did not think of it until you mentioned that they are already sorted and then I realized?) 01:59:17 Once I saw some picture someone made of how they might arrange the buttons and so on on a TI-92 calculator if they were designing for games; but I also thought if you design for games you might also add a colour display and audio, and that these features will be useful even for stuff other than games, too, such as if you are plotting multiple functions on the same screen it can help to be different colours, and you might want it to beep when a long 02:23:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:33:32 What's the OKest font? 02:33:36 @massages-loud 02:33:36 tswett said 7h 54m 41s ago: That would have been helpful, if it weren't for the fact that I actually knew that already. 02:33:43 mezzacotta is topical today. 02:34:05 oerjan: Also, remember remember. 02:34:13 (Well, probably not for you anymore...) 02:34:27 "anymore"? 02:34:54 oh right 02:35:04 hppavilion[1]: well, i _am_ the rememberlord hth 02:35:39 oerjan: Ah, yes 02:35:45 oerjan: "anymore" is a word, isn't it? 02:36:02 i was just not connecting the bits hth 02:36:17 I've never been clear on whether "anymore" or "any more" is considered correct; I guess they're in the process of merging and I'm on the merged end? 02:36:47 itym mergedend hth 02:37:19 oerjan: No, that'sn't merging yet 02:37:50 well hurryup 02:38:27 (Hm, "that'sn't" and other "-'sn't"s are actually a fairly nice group (or maybe semiring? I haven't proved it yet) of contractions... I thing I'll start using them...) 02:38:54 `? hppavilion[1] 02:39:02 (Also nice are the 'd-a and 'm-a contractions, like "I'd-a" "I'm-a") 02:39:09 HackEgo: WHYYYYYYYYYY 02:39:13 hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. 02:39:19 `? oerjan 02:39:20 Your revertable itymologist gneiss rememberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 02:39:23 Taneb: Could you formally invent those contractions? 02:39:40 `? abyss 02:39:41 `revert 02:39:45 `? tswett 02:39:51 shachaf: What are you reverting? 02:40:03 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 02:40:05 In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same. 02:40:06 tswett is livin' it up with the penguins. He's a title under the cruxite in the lathe. 02:40:07 why is HackEgo slow again 02:40:14 `learn_append hppavilion[1] Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría. 02:40:17 Learned 'hppavilion[1]': hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe. No es tan cluecless. Él aspira a ser más incomprensible que esta sabiduría. 02:40:36 `le/rn abyss/`? you 02:40:38 Relearned 'abyss': `? you 02:40:41 `? abyss 02:40:41 `? you 02:40:44 :) 02:40:45 oh man 02:40:51 `? warrigal 02:40:51 now i can't use `now to show what i reverted 02:40:52 #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human. 02:40:55 Much funnier, imo 02:40:58 i guess it'll forever remain a mystery tdnh 02:41:01 `before 02:41:04 wisdom/abyss//In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same. 02:41:10 `revert 02:41:10 `now wisdom/oerjan 02:41:15 wisdom/oerjan//Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss rememberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 02:41:16 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 02:41:24 `? abyss 02:41:25 In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same. 02:41:34 `before wisdom/oerjan 02:41:34 oerjan: Bah! Mine was much funnier. 02:41:38 wisdom/oerjan//Your revertable itymologist gneiss rememberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 02:42:48 oerjan: :,( 02:43:14 Taneb: please don't invent hppavilion[1]isms twh 02:46:43 `slwd warrigal//s/^/warrigal is / 02:46:45 `? Taneb 02:46:46 warrigal//warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human. 02:46:49 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions) 02:46:55 oerjan: why is warrigal lowercased 02:47:09 shachaf: because it's a nick hth 02:47:19 Yes, a nick which is usually capitalized. 02:47:27 hppavilion[1]: no it was not. besides we have heaps of those sorts of entries already. 02:47:47 shachaf: well it's not here very often. feel free to fix. 02:48:27 <\oren\> Jan. 12th, 2017. After an intense firefight over the golden gate bridge, President Trump's motorcade was overtaken by cavalry of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, assisted by Mexican drugloard artillery 02:48:29 `slwd taneb//s#(.*#He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).# 02:48:31 taneb//Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions). 02:49:02 `slwd warrigal//s/w/W/ 02:49:06 warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human. 02:49:22 AlWays capitalize the letter W; thanks. 02:49:41 /nick tsWett 02:52:25 `? soviet russia 02:52:26 Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination. 02:52:59 admittedly, this used to be one of them, until i got confused by it. 02:53:27 One of whom? 02:53:58 shachaf: those entries that are making fun of `? itself 02:54:06 `? `? 02:54:07 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:54:31 Oh, right. 02:57:04 `? special relativity 02:57:05 special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:57:08 `? tensor 02:57:09 tensor? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:57:14 `? tanebventions: math 02:57:15 Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, the long line, locales, and histograms. 02:57:23 `? tanebventions 02:57:25 Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex. 02:57:29 Is special relativity mathematical? 02:57:34 How about the universe? 02:57:41 not entirely. 02:57:53 `? the universe 02:57:54 The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. Escardó proved that it was indiscreet. 02:58:13 `? universe 02:58:14 A universe is a poem in one stanza. 02:58:28 Hmm, which one of those shall I augment? 02:58:46 why would you do that 02:58:56 I want to mention that it's characterized by a universal property. 02:59:15 `? a universe 02:59:16 i'm not sure that fits in either. 02:59:16 a universe? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:59:35 Well, indiscreteness is a universal property, I guess? 02:59:47 Indiscrete things are typically right adjoint to a forgetful functor? 02:59:55 i don't know. 03:00:20 i guess that one is harmed least, anyway, the other one sort of needs to be brief. 03:00:37 man, "harmed least" 03:00:43 thanks for your vote of confidence tdh 03:00:45 ...OK, what's Taneb's 0.08008382305190409th gender? (though, knowing #esoteric, either it's m or f or the other two are both neither m nor f...) 03:00:58 *MWAHAHAHA* 03:01:32 It has annoyed me ever since I noticed that "er" is for more and "est" is for most, but there's nothing for "less" and "least" 03:01:47 @wn versal 03:01:49 No match for "versal". 03:02:08 "adjective: of or relating to a style of ornate capital letter used to start a verse, paragraph, etc., in a manuscript, typically built up by inking between pen strokes and with long, rather flat serifs." 03:02:13 hppavilion[1]: last you brought it up someone gave a reference that it's a universal that _no_ language has inflections for those hth 03:02:27 oerjan: Then all languages are bad. hth. 03:02:38 thausible. 03:02:50 newspeak has words like ungooder and ungoodest 03:03:00 shachaf: Yes, but those aren't as good 03:03:00 it's pretty regular in that respect 03:03:11 they are better 03:03:28 four endings good, two endings better hth 03:04:08 * oerjan is forgetting to eat 03:04:18 (I like maybe -oss [o:s] and -ost [o:st]; "meanoss"; "biggoss, longoss, and cut") 03:04:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:04:49 shachaf: They're goodoss than this system. 03:05:08 (But then "most" sounds like it means "least") 03:05:15 *+... 03:06:47 hppavilion[1]: maybe m can mean little hth 03:06:54 oerjan: Oooh, 03:07:15 oerjan: "meanem", "biggem, longem, and cut"? 03:07:29 no, i meant to make m-ost fit 03:07:38 boilem mashem stickem 03:07:46 Ah 03:09:21 . o O ( buy this book by celebrated cook Ina Stew ) 03:11:06 `? oerjan 03:11:07 Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss rememberlord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:11:15 wait, it should be chef, obviously 03:11:32 oerjan: Is that true? Are you Glaswegian? 03:11:44 i'm definitely wegian 03:12:07 `slwd oerjan//s/remember/potato/ 03:12:10 oerjan//Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss potatolord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:12:15 are you part of the glasgow wegime 03:12:46 Pitte Reich... 03:13:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:13:20 I CAN NEITHER CONFIRM NOR AFFIRM THAT 03:13:25 hppavilion[1]: pitte? 03:13:29 `slwd oerjan//s43424 03:13:30 oerjan//Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss potatolord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:13:35 hmm 03:13:36 oerjan: As opposed to Dritte 03:13:48 oerjan: Dritte is third (I think), so Pitte is...? 03:13:49 hppavilion[1]: still makes no sense afaict 03:14:00 absolutely nothing? 03:14:01 oerjan: Hint: The 'i' is [a:i] 03:14:20 `slwd oerjan//1s19121 03:14:23 oerjan//Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss potatolord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:14:49 aww 03:14:55 `slwd oerjan//s4&4 03:14:57 π. It's pi, oerjan. The pith reich. 03:14:57 oerjan//Your revertebrate itymologist gneiss potatolord oerjan is a lazy expert in suture complication. Also a Pre-recombination Glaswegian who passionfruitly dislikes Roald Dahl. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 03:15:01 there we go 03:15:35 * oerjan beats up hppavilion[1] for suggesting pi is an ordinal. in a 'wegian way. 03:15:57 oerjan: It's frequently used as an ordinal, so... 03:16:51 is it now. 03:16:53 And anyway, an sequence is basically a function from |N to , so generalization to |R is possible in many cases- for example, factorial to gamma 03:17:19 Do you know that a convering sequence is a function from the one-point compactification of N? 03:17:27 A continuous function, I mean. 03:17:35 That is, N with an extra point at infinity. 03:17:48 (With the appropriate topological structure.) 03:17:48 shachaf: Yes? 03:18:07 That's pretty good, huh? 03:18:13 shachaf: itym converging? 03:18:24 yes, converging. 03:18:39 i,i it's compact, which means that every open converge has a finite subconverge 03:19:05 >_> 03:19:24 reich(3) = NAZIS 03:19:44 * oerjan is still forgetting to eat 03:19:53 I have the feeling that compactness is very important but I don't have sufficient intuition for it. 03:20:03 Also fun: pinary 03:20:43 0p10 ≈ 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436789259036001133053054882046652138414695194151160943305727036575959195309218 03:21:08 you're spamming the channel too much 03:21:09 this is your pinal warning 03:21:10 hth 03:21:28 shachaf: How many warnings do I get? (or is pinal second-to-last?) 03:21:59 this is pinal tap 03:22:08 Hm, if "final" is last, assuming "fi" is one, then given "first, second, third"... well, second-to-last would be something different given that it has a different suffix 03:22:21 But "secnal" and "thirnal" sound nice 03:22:23 "final" is only last in finite cases. 03:22:25 shachaf: but i don't want to let him have 11 warnings 03:22:28 (Maybe 0πDD...D would be a better notation) 03:22:31 In an infinite sequence the last element would be infinal. 03:22:40 shachaf: Ah, yes 03:23:00 shachaf: Though, it's possible to have an infinite set (but not sequence) with a last element... 03:23:28 Sets don't have last elements. 03:23:32 hppavilion[1]: second-to-last would obviously be senile hth 03:23:52 But a convergent sequence certainly has a last element, which is what it converges to. 03:23:55 shachaf: poset/woset? 03:23:57 f(∞) 03:24:07 shachaf: but which infinity tdnh 03:24:08 podude/wodude 03:24:20 I already specified that it's the one-point compactification of N. 03:24:25 So there's only one. 03:24:28 shachaf: Yes, I know 03:24:32 What's a pod-ude? 03:24:50 To calculate the quantiles I used a JavaScript code like: var rt=0; const qu=[]; var c; for(c=0;c=qu.length*count/quantiles) qu.push(c); } 03:25:08 zzo38: In modern JavaScript, you can use "let" instead of "var", which has better scoping behavior. 03:25:23 I didn't read past the first token in your code. 03:25:27 shachaf: I am aware of that, and do use let in those cases. 03:26:17 (At first I had "if" instead of "while", which sometimes resulted in a too short result, so I changed it to "while" and now it seems to be working OK.) 03:27:08 if twan van laarhoven invented an algorithm for computing quantiles, it would be called twantiles 03:27:11 In the case I used var here though it doesn't matter, because it is top-level code. 03:29:01 (Also, this isn't my actual code, although it shows the algorithm in use.) 03:30:53 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:31:04 fneingott! 03:33:39 Does this algorithm looks OK to you? 03:37:15 `dowg zzo38 03:37:16 771:2012-10-06 revert \ 770:2012-10-06 run rm -rf wisdom \ 196:2012-04-08 revert 0 \ 194:2012-04-08 run rm -rf wisdom/* \ 0:2012-02-16 Initial import. 03:37:29 `cat bin/hlnp 03:37:29 revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/$<[^>]*$$[^>]>$/\1̈\2/' 03:38:00 `sled bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 770 | 771&# 03:38:02 bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/$<[^>]*$$[^>]>$/\1̈\2/' 03:38:16 `sled bin/hlnp//1s#..$# | 196 | 194&# 03:38:18 bin/hlnp//revset='tip:0 & ! (9071 | 9070 | 5897 | 5895 | 9075 | 9074 | 4530 | 4531 | 770 | 771 | 196 | 194)' \ hg log -r "$revset" "$@" | sed 's/$<[^>]*$$[^>]>$/\1̈\2/' 03:38:21 `dowg zzo38 03:38:22 0:2012-02-16 Initial import. 03:39:17 `cwlprits zzo38 03:39:20 nitia 04:03:22 wisdom of the ancients. 04:03:31 * oerjan now has food 04:03:41 `? food 04:03:42 food? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:04:46 hmm 04:04:49 i can't make it work 04:05:09 make what work 04:05:26 The wisdom entry I was going to make for food. 04:05:32 too bad. 04:05:44 happens. 04:25:27 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I want to give people almond-scented drinks and see how many of them try to shoot me ) 04:33:54 when life serves you almonds, make almonade. 04:34:59 oerjan: When life gives you capture by the Soviets, eat some almonds? 04:36:39 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv57SfUVYAEp5cu.jpg 04:44:38 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I love almonds! 04:50:40 \oren\: Cyanide tastes like almonds hth 04:50:59 R.I.P. \oren\ 05:04:00 Can you poison almonds with cyanide? 05:04:12 zzo38: Definitely. 05:05:17 OK, wait, is Jehovah (a) [jɛ.hoʊ.vʌ] or (b) [dʒɛ.hoʊ.vʌ]? I always heard (b), but I've always assumed it was people being stupid about (a), but now Wikipedia says (b) but also mentions (a) without giving context 05:05:43 I have heard both 05:06:17 (as well as a third variant) 05:06:24 zzo38: Oh? 05:06:37 zzo38: Yahweh is different form Jehovah if that's what you're going for 05:07:15 I mean, I really can't see YHWH meaning (b); (a) just (read [jʌst] if punning) seems so much more likely 05:08:36 I know it is different 05:10:08 zzo38: What's the third one you've heard?? 05:10:17 * hppavilion[1] must knoooooow 05:10:43 It is like (a) but with a "w" sound 05:11:02 zzo38: [jɛ.woʊ.vʌ]? 05:11:17 No, I mean in place of "v" 05:11:28 Ah 05:11:45 [jɛ.hoʊ.wʌ]... that seems more correct 05:11:57 (I can't send non-ASCII with this IRC client, although it can receive any ASCII-compatible character encoding just fine) 05:12:13 (as long as the terminal emulator supports it) 05:22:02 hppavilion[1]: consider that the same pronunciation change has happened for all of "John", "James/Jacob", "Joshua", "Jesus", "Jude/Judas", "Jason" etc. ... 05:23:06 (all except the last from hebrew and probably from a prefix version of YHWH) 05:24:29 I found out that "Sean" comes from "John". 05:24:35 indeed 05:24:49 Which of course has its own rich etymological history. 05:25:36 shachaf: "Sean" is pronounced "Seen" in my book. Parents are free to name their kid "Sean" and insist it's pronounced wrong, but it's no different from any of the other name misspelings 05:25:55 Your book is wrong. 05:26:10 The correct way to pronounce someone's name is however they want it to be pronounced. 05:26:39 and all of which would be pronounced with /j/ in norwegian, except James doesn't really exist. 05:27:47 hppavilion[1]: Sean is irish spelling. they do _strange_ things with the vowels hth 05:28:04 oerjan: The irish is wrong 05:28:28 shachaf: Yes, but the problem is the PARENT insists that it's spelled in a way incompatible with spelling 05:28:53 There is no such thing as "incompatible with spelling" in English. 05:29:14 If people are young enough that they haven't been able to make their own choice about their names, I have no opinion. 05:31:43 hppavilion[1]: irish gaelic, to be specific. 05:32:02 oerjan: Gaaaaaaæeeeee 05:32:15 (I had trouble deciding how to drag an æ, so I did that...) 05:32:33 that's because you're gææææææææææææææææærn 05:32:45 (norwegian for craaaaaaaaaaaaaazy) 05:33:20 (colloquial spelling _and_ pronunciation) 05:35:29 I would think that the name should be pronouse how they want it to be pronounce. However, then you should write it down in proper way if you can know of. You should also to spell their name in the way they would intend to spell their name, too, if possible. 05:36:20 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( In norwegian they use ø. In swedish they use ö. German also uses ö, so by the law of analogy, German can be properly spelled with ø instead of ö ) 05:37:04 (Don't question it, it's a joke. But given that I have an ø (still not sure whether to write "a" or "an" before "ø") key, I might just write german with ø in place of ö) 05:37:53 OK you can, but it does not mean you should, unless you intend to make the auto search/replace with it. 05:39:51 zzo38: Nø, I just wånt tø ånnøy the Germåns. hth. 05:39:59 O, OK 05:40:17 Do you like to ignore the English too? 05:40:23 zzo38: I'd say "itym Ø, ØK", but yøu can't ø, can you 05:40:26 zzo38: A little? 05:40:50 OK 05:44:27 Instead of annoying people, I recommend that you don't try to be annoying. 05:45:18 shachaf: ...*fine* 05:46:55 New definition: Fixpoint quine: A superset of quines where it is not required that the program itself output its own source code, but that it either outputs its own source code OR outputs a fixpoint quine in the same language 05:47:59 So every program is a "fixpoint quine". 05:49:07 shachaf: How so? 05:49:20 I don't think so; some programs will output stuff that is not a valid code. 05:49:28 shachaf: It has to be in the same language 05:49:30 zzo38: Yes, exactly 05:49:45 Depends on what counts as "in the language". 05:50:20 But every Jot program is a "fixpoint quine". 05:50:22 The following is not a valid C code: Hello, World! 05:50:27 shachaf: You say it's a fixpoint quite in , since all text is a fixpoint quine in some language 05:50:38 Also I don't like the word "fixpoint". 05:50:41 I don't know whether I should like it 05:50:44 Probably not. 05:51:03 I also probably don't like it in this context 05:51:05 shachaf: It's a fixpoint in that if you repeatedly run the code, you eventually enter a point where the output it always the same 05:51:16 That's not true. 05:51:19 (...that's what a fixpoint is, isn't it? Like the Y fixpoint combinator?) 05:51:29 I'll continue to say "fixed point". 05:51:49 shachaf: If there's a better word, switch to that 05:53:00 But it's just smartassy to make a quine by saying that what language to use is whatever-will-make-it-a-quine, or if the language is very quiney like cat 06:18:56 > (\n s->var$s++show(n+1)++show s)1"(\\n s->var$s++show(n+1)++show s)" 06:18:58 (\n s->var$s++show(n+1)++show s)2"(\\n s->var$s++show(n+1)++show s)" 06:19:03 hppavilion[1]: ^ 06:19:10 never repeats. 06:19:30 oerjan: ergo it's not a fixpoint quine 06:19:34 by your original definition, a fixpoint quine. 06:19:40 oerjan: Wait, what? 06:20:19 oh. you meant _smallest_ set. i interpreted it as the _largest_. 06:20:22 oerjan: OK, can you repeat back to me what my definition is in your own words? I can't see... 06:21:04 hppavilion[1]: when defining things recursively like that, you can interpret it as any set that fits. there's a smallest and a largest one. 06:21:17 oerjan: Oh, right, I see 06:21:50 oerjan: I see the issue. I forgot something 06:21:52 that's sort of data vs. codata. 06:22:01 oerjan: ...codata? wat? 06:23:08 hppavilion[1]: example data: finite lists. example codata: lists which may be infinite. 06:23:19 Ah 06:23:23 haskell "data" is the latter, actually, because of laziness. 06:26:05 it's like the question about "this sentence is true" hth 06:26:19 I also interpreted it as the largest, which is obviously the best way to interpret it. 06:26:52 it seems like the most interesting yeah 06:27:21 because you can get a lot of strange stuff but you need to make sure it always parses... 06:27:56 I would say that a compiler error also counts as output. 06:28:13 For example I would call a program that generates a compiler error equal to its source code a quine. 06:28:27 we call that a "kimian" quine. 06:28:37 ...for some reason. 06:28:56 > fnord 06:28:59 error: Variable not in scope: fnord 06:29:10 > error: Variable not in scope: error 06:29:12 :1:21: error: parse error on input ‘in’ 06:29:26 > :1:21: error: parse error on input ‘<' 06:29:29 :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<’ 06:29:37 > :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<' 06:29:39 :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<’ 06:29:44 SUCCESS 06:29:59 now, is there more than one? 06:30:45 it would need a different format error, at least 06:31:35 hm is that actually a fixpoint in (except for erroring) hppavilion[1]'s sense? 06:32:14 > :1:21: error: parse error on input ‘in’ 06:32:16 :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<’ 06:32:26 i suppose it is. 06:32:43 hm it seems like > autostrips the initial space. 06:32:55 > (:) 06:32:57 error: 06:32:57 • No instance for (Typeable a0) 06:32:57 arising from a use of ‘show_M764240908133430608317677’ 06:33:06 argh 06:33:21 lambdabot: you're making this hard :( 06:33:30 `abc 06:33:32 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: abc: not found 06:33:32 > error: error 06:33:35 error: 06:33:35 • Couldn't match expected type ‘[[Char] -> a]’ 06:33:35 with actual type ‘[Char] -> a0’ 06:33:44 `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: abc: not found 06:33:45 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits:: No such file or directory 06:34:03 `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits:: No such file or directory 06:34:04 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits:: No such file or directory 06:34:11 ha 06:34:16