00:01:16 <Zarutian> hmm.. does anyone know of a short vingette about an author fleeing assasins because an corporation wants his works to be in the public domain in 70 years time?
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00:05:52 <boily> good syntax highlighting is subtle and compelling. it's the smell of freshly brewed sourj. a Danish butter cookie crumbling in your mouth.
00:06:08 <boily> I don't, but it sounds fun! copyright assasins.
00:06:38 <myname> 70 years is a lot of time for that to make any sense
00:07:09 <myname> "we need that in _exactly_ 70 years. we cannot afford to wait 80, because our seers said so"
00:09:05 <Zarutian> myname: well the plot was that the corp wanted the writings in the public domain sooner than later hence the covertly hired assasins
00:09:11 <myname> it would make sense in a cyberpunk setting like morgan's, but i don't know if copyright will be a thing like today in those
00:10:45 <boily> talking about corps makes me want to build new netrunner decks...
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00:14:01 <Zarutian> i have actually played that. I find it hillariously badly confused what hacking is actually about.
00:14:30 <Zarutian> hacking in the senes of gaining access to something without consent
00:15:22 <Zarutian> 'series of tubes with firewalls'
00:18:47 <boily> it's caricaturally hollywoodian, and runs with it all the way through, with flavour and lore and extra material.
00:19:02 <boily> it's not meant to be serious hacking.
00:19:13 <Zarutian> netrunner should have cards that are on a corps server such when reviealed it says "Congratulations! You gained access to the sysadmins breakroom fridge wishlist!"
00:21:20 <Zarutian> there there is another card: "You can hire an tech to make te sysadmins new fridge act like an exfiltration device for getting out goodies without being detected"
00:22:40 <olsner> hmm, does intercal have exceptions of some kind?
00:22:57 <olsner> (on error come from perhaps?)
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00:30:52 <Zarutian> boily: yeah, I know it is caricaturally hollywoodian which is based on something an script writer half remembered when asking phone phreaks and hackers how they did it.
00:31:11 <Zarutian> boily: hence the 'trace' and such stuff.
00:37:04 <oerjan> olsner: you need to ask ais523 that hth
00:37:09 <Zarutian> which reminds me, I remember I saw in one movie that came after War Games where an combination of computer clubs bought one pager (with service) and a 900 number. They then cloned the pager and linked the 900 number to its number. Then they used it for sort of data 'broadcast' for their members. (You could send alphanumerical text to the pager via DTMF scheme the pager service published)
00:37:23 <HackEgo> hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
00:38:38 <Zarutian> (the members connected their 'pagers' to their home computers and left them running)
00:39:15 <oerjan> that seems unlikely to work hth
00:39:42 <Zarutian> the data broadcast service the clobbed together?
00:40:29 <Zarutian> why was it unlikely to work? pager systems in those days didnt use cell phone architecture
00:41:15 <oerjan> i'd assume the telecom network would track approximate pager location, and not be able to register several simultaneously...
00:41:44 <oerjan> unless the service was actually designed for having several pagers on one number
00:41:47 <Zarutian> an pager was bascially an small recieve only radio hard tuned to the pager service broadcast frequency and knew its id code
00:42:20 <oerjan> ok receive only? i guess it could work then.
00:42:36 <oerjan> but then only in the designated area the broadcasts reach
00:43:07 <Zarutian> which was usually whole of USA (in that movie at least)
00:44:08 <oerjan> i guess with low enough customer base they could do that.
00:45:01 <Zarutian> the customer base was huge, many hospitals, police forces, fire stations and so on used these from what I have read
00:45:33 <Zarutian> you see the data sent for a page wasnt that much
00:46:15 <HackEgo> 9673:2016-11-12 <oerjän> slwd hth//s/\xca\xb0\xc9\x99/h\xcc\xa9/ \ 9672:2016-11-12 <oerjän> slwd hth//s/\xc9\x99\xcc\xa5/\xc9\x99/ \ 9671:2016-11-12 <oerjän> slwd hth//s/ / ([\xca\xb0t\xca\xb0\xca\xb0\xc9\x99\xcc\xa5]) / \ 6776:2016-02-10 <zgrëp> ` echo \'hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.\' > wisdom/hth \
00:46:21 <Zarutian> heck with many pagers in a group then only one packet needed to be sent as each pager in the group also listened for the group id code
00:46:32 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/hth
00:46:36 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän zgrëp hppavilion[1̈] boil̈y boil̈y
00:49:17 <Zarutian> the funny thing is, in that movie, the telecomms company found out what the clubbers were doing. But all calls to the pagers number went through the 900 number so the bill broke even. The company just put a rate limter on the pager number and didnt care further.
00:51:32 <Zarutian> This and other stuff, might have been the inspiration for Outernet.is (which isnt an Icelandic site though it is registered via ISNIC)
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01:15:52 <boily> "It it", "Is is", "If is", "Illinois", "I hiss", "Titties", "Ibis", "Iris", "Italy", "[DATA EXPANDED]".
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01:44:05 <oerjan> oh right you no longer need let in ghci
01:56:42 <shachaf> I should upgrade sometime.
01:56:45 <HackEgo> U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H \ UTF-8: 68 UTF-16BE: 0068 Decimal: h \ h (H) \ Uppercase: U+0048 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0329 COMBINING VERTICAL LINE BELOW \ UTF-8: cc a9 UTF-16BE: 0329 Decimal: ̩ \ ̩ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 220 (Below)
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02:09:59 <boily> he\\oren\. it's a syllabic h hth
02:10:13 <boily> people still use Haskell?
02:33:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Incident]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50408&oldid=50406 * Oerjan * (+1107) /* O(log n) version */ Comparison
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02:34:20 <oerjan> boily: it's useful for calculations hth
02:35:24 <oerjan> (like those i just posted)
02:46:45 <adu> hppavilion: I think your date is wrong
02:49:31 * oerjan realizes many (most?) people here weren't born when eternal september started
02:52:32 <adu> hppavilion: ummmmmmmmmmmm its 2016
02:54:40 <boily> oerjan: which year was the eternal September of?
02:55:12 <boily> but there must have been ephemeral Septembers before that, no?
02:55:46 <oerjan> the last ephemeral september was 1992 hth
02:55:52 <hppavilion> When I got that date, it was tomorrow in the local timezone
02:56:43 * boily was born before that, but too young to experience it
02:57:00 <oerjan> `` date --date 'September 10000, 1993'
02:57:01 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `September 10000, 1993'
02:57:57 <oerjan> `` date --date 'September 30, 1993'
02:57:57 <HackEgo> Thu Sep 30 00:00:00 UTC 1993
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02:59:57 <shachaf> oerjan: that program can do it
03:00:02 <shachaf> you can read about it in the mandate hth
03:00:14 <shachaf> `` date -d 'September 1, 1993 + 9999 days'
03:00:15 <HackEgo> Sat Jan 16 00:00:00 UTC 2021
03:00:32 <adu> hppavilion: "it was tomorrow"?
03:00:44 <adu> hppavilion: and you ask how.....
03:00:52 <shachaf> it will have been tomorrow
03:01:05 <adu> shachaf: at least that is gramatically correct
03:01:24 <shachaf> the error is not grammatical
03:01:40 <adu> temporally incorrect
03:01:41 <shachaf> no error at all, actually, not in that fragment
03:02:13 <shachaf> "What day did we decide on, again? Ah, right, it was tomorrow."
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03:04:26 <Jafet> you thought the day for jam was tomorrow, but it will have been changed to yesterday
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03:06:36 <shachaf> I think you will have found it to have continued to be jam tomorrow even tomorrow.
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03:21:53 <Jafet> Ham and jam sounds interesting
03:24:07 <Jafet> more interesting than the other entry to the language design competition, it seems
03:24:18 <Jafet> maybe they should have used a white queen…
03:25:17 <Jafet> https://esolangs.org/wiki/ARGENTOS
03:25:40 <shachaf> Were there only two entries?
03:27:25 <Jafet> only two are listed on the esowiki
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03:50:00 <\oren\> TTF is a HORRIBLE format!!!!
03:52:56 <\oren\> NOOOOOOOO why doesn't it worrrrrrrrrkk
03:55:26 <zzo38> Then use a different format; there are many better ones
03:57:18 <adu> hppavilion: did you decide?
03:58:08 <adu> hppavilion: if we can be friends?
03:58:43 <adu> I'm so sorry for making you wait
03:58:51 <adu> it will never happen again
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04:29:58 <zzo38> I have recently added into OAA a compile-time optimization for arithmetic operations on constants. (For example if you type 1 2ADD it will automatically replace it with 3) OAC does not have this feature.
04:46:09 <zzo38> Some programming languages have no bitwise operations (such as, OASYS VM doesn't have, and I think Pascal also doesn't have; if you look at the code of TeX and METAFONT you will see that they don't use bitwise operations; also TI-92 has no bitwise operations), although I have figured out ways to do anyways (depending what needs to be done you can simplify it). Have you ever done stuff like this too?
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04:49:35 <hppavilion> A lot of programming languages use `s and ~s and ^s
04:49:52 <hppavilion> Which is weird because they're etymologically supposed to be diacritics that lost their diacriticism
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04:51:44 <zzo38> They are used because they are ASCII characters is I think mainly why
04:54:41 <hppavilion> zzo38: They're only in ASCII because they were used as diacritics, but they were never meant to stand alone
04:55:52 <pikhq> They may have been intended as such, but actual ASCII systems never supported them as such.
04:56:09 <pikhq> Though a decent number of the national ASCII variants did.
04:57:07 <zzo38> You could make overtype by backspace, but that is unlikely on a VDU anyways.
04:57:32 <hppavilion> But what would happen if ASCII had *more* diacritics than just gràve, tĩlde, câret? What might programming languages use a floating macrōn or brĕve, dȯt or ümlaut, ri̊ng or carǒn for?
04:57:53 <hppavilion> zzo38: Yeah, that was the original usage afaict. It applied to lots of other combinors too
04:58:21 <hppavilion> Also, rule: All names for diacritical marks should contain the diacritical mark.
04:58:26 <zzo38> Yes you can make cents sign too for example. But as I said such uses are more suitable for paper than for VDU.
04:58:49 <pikhq> But then, ASCII was a 1963 spec.
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04:59:18 <pikhq> It was straight-up assumed output would be to a hard-copy teletypewriter.
04:59:22 <hppavilion> (The name shouldn't be derived from languages where the symbol is used; the symbol should just have a generic, perhaps systematic name)
05:00:50 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, and now that is rarely the case, although you can still fake it if necessary
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05:30:00 <pikhq> zzo38: It'd be interesting to see software emulating overtype.
05:32:12 <pikhq> Though I can think of a really easy (if lame) way of doing it just to cover textual use.
05:32:36 <pikhq> Replace backspace-and-diacritic with the Unicode combining character
05:39:19 <zzo38> Yes, or whatever kind of typesetting system you may be using
05:48:33 <Jafet> combining backspace
06:01:30 <Jafet> I think that's just called space
06:07:45 <\oren\> Ok I can't figure out at all why this doesn't work
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08:04:37 <hppavilion> Somebody on #xkcd on Foonetic just described Darmok as being about the characters meeting a culture that only talks in memes xD
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13:34:06 <int-e> . o O ( early adopter, n.: guinea pig. )
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13:55:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Javagony]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50409&oldid=46003 * Flawr * (+4)
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16:19:42 <Zarutian> somewhat appropos to the netrunner chat yesterday: http://www.cap-lore.com/Economics/DSR/SilkSec.html ;-Þ
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18:02:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50410&oldid=50401 * Slnetaiga * (+17) Added Calculator
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18:18:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Incident]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50411&oldid=50408 * Oerjan * (+358) /* O(log n) version */ Updated calculations
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18:46:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Incident]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50412&oldid=50411 * Oerjan * (+380) /* O(log n) version */ Larger charsets
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18:48:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ObCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50413&oldid=50162 * Challenger5 * (+2)
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19:59:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Calculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50414 * Slnetaiga * (+2109) Initial
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20:02:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50415&oldid=50404 * Slnetaiga * (+17)
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20:56:19 <HackEgo> backward//¯\(o_°)/¯ ?sdrawkcab
21:02:29 <int-e> ?ti deen uoy nehw elopam eht si erehW
21:02:29 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tic-tac-toe ticker time wn v thx rc pl id do bid bf @ ? .
21:03:13 <int-e> I didn't know that command.
21:04:02 <int-e> And ... there's a typo:
21:04:05 <lambdabot> I'm sorry Dave, I'm affraid I don't know that command
21:05:45 * boily lends int-e his mapole
21:06:25 * int-e mapoles boily straight into the 21st century.
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21:45:41 <zzo38> All The Tropes Wiki includes, on its article about "Every Man Has His Price", says about Magic: the Gathering, "[...] this is the default behavior of black, which uses everything as a resource". But what about, using costing you the game in later duels in a match as a resource, or in a team game, using players as a resource?
21:46:32 <shachaf> I think black might often use players' loyalty as a resource.
21:50:52 <zzo38> Players can concede at any time, so even in a Archenemy game with ten vs one, the team might find a way to win that involves nine of their ten players conceding, and the remaining player winning, therefore allowing the entire team to win.
21:52:28 <zzo38> Another idea I thought of is to write the card: Indirectly phase out target permanent.
21:57:28 <zzo38> (The rules would need to be adjusted slightly, but depending on your point of view this may be considered merely a clarification.)
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22:40:11 <HackEgo> if//If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss:
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