←2016-12-02 2016-12-03 2016-12-04→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:14:02 <boily> fungot: do you ever send massages?
00:14:02 <fungot> boily: damn you structural ambiguity!", i think
00:14:11 <boily> fungot: no, a massage is structurally sound hth
00:14:11 <fungot> boily: you're just a zealot incapable of having an in-numbers? ( lambda ( x)
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00:14:30 <boily> fungot: By His Noodly Appendage, I ain't no zealot, you heretic!
00:14:30 <fungot> boily: and there's no automatic fnord, i was gonna submit a srfi too, but it's
00:15:06 <boily> fungot: srfi: Subversive Radiophonic Fnord Integration?
00:20:23 <zzo38> There might be use for some unofficial node types in FreeUHS, with names having "x-" at front. One thing I thought is a thing similar to the "incentive" type but dynamic; which nodes are hidden/locked can be controlled by the game.
00:21:34 <zzo38> Does it make any sense to you? Do you have other idea?
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00:38:31 * Zarutian is reading https://theintercept.com/2016/12/01/expanded-federal-hacking-authority-goes-into-effect-despite-last-minute-efforts-in-senate/
00:40:34 <zzo38> This would require the hint system to be linked with the game though. Another way for a hint system which is not linked with the game can be for the game to provide a "hint reference code", which is entered into the hint viewer in order to access a hidden hint menu. Hint reference codes can be provided even if there is no UHS file for this game; the UHS can be provided later, and these hint reference codes can possibly even be used with stuff that
00:41:50 <Zarutian> hmm... anyone up for co authoring an Binding International Arbitration Contract Notice, telling both the USA FBI and USA DOJ that any 'equipment interference' or access gained by means not authorized by the sending party to sending party's equipment, accounts or such is equivlent to them accepting the IAC.
00:42:21 <zzo38> I do not live in United States and have no authority to do such a thing
00:42:42 <Zarutian> zzo38: I said co authoring not issuing
00:43:05 <zzo38> O, OK. Even then, I do not know how.
00:43:46 <Zarutian> basically constructing an EULA-esque mousetrap for them.
00:44:55 <zzo38> OK, do that if you know how, but I don't know how.
00:46:34 <oerjan> that reminds me of https://xkcd.com/538/. as in, it's about as naive as the first panel.
00:47:14 <oerjan> except trying to hack law instead, which probably works even worse.
00:49:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50439&oldid=50340 * 0x0dea * (+1785) Added Whitespace interpreter in LOLCODE
00:49:45 <Zarutian> oerjan: so you are suggesting at the end of it, it should state: This IACN is as legal as your so called 'Rule 41'.
00:50:21 <oerjan> Zarutian: i was assuming you were suggesting this with some kind of illusion that would in any sense "work".
00:50:25 <Ox0dea> oerjan: Sorry for only just getting around to that.
00:51:07 <oerjan> Ox0dea: no problem, i was going to do that refactoring eventually anyway.
00:51:13 <Ox0dea> Fair enough.
00:51:18 <Zarutian> oerjan: it """works""" in the same sense that EULAs """work"""
00:51:37 <Zarutian> (they dont. Not at all)
00:51:44 <boily> there's a rule 41?
00:52:39 <oerjan> `? nuff
00:52:46 <HackEgo> nuff? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:53:10 <oerjan> `learn Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:53:12 <HackEgo> Learned 'nuff': Nuff is a substance extracted from fairies. Somehow no one really minds this.
00:54:02 <Zarutian> oerjan: or should I rather send them an warning that any such malware they produce will be analysed and any CoC servers it contacts DDOSed of the net? (Like it is done with CoC of botnets in places where the 'authorities' are too corrupt to care)
00:54:46 <boily> . o O ( snuff is to nuff what scow is to cow... )
00:55:27 <oerjan> Zarutian: i'm just saying there is no point in posing like this.
00:56:00 <Zarutian> oerjan: just go straight to the malware analysis and DDOSing then?
00:56:06 <oerjan> Fairy snuff would indeed be pretty scow.
00:57:00 <oerjan> Zarutian: i think that's still posing when the target is a powerful government. except more likely to be harmful to yourself.
00:58:20 <zzo38> Write such note anonymously and sent to newspaper to publish.
00:59:52 <Zarutian> oerjan: the 'agents' arent 'powerful government'. Their actions are their own. And actions do have consequences for whoever performs them.
01:00:54 <boily> how many weeks since the last oots?
01:00:57 <Zarutian> oerjan: one of which is rescindment of credibility of their signitures.
01:02:54 <oerjan> well ok then
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01:40:59 <ais523> esoserious problem I'm having: is the bookworm character used by INTERCAL best represented in Unicode as ∀ (for all) or Ɐ (which actually is an upside-down A, as opposed to merely looking like one)?
01:41:47 <oerjan> what does it mean again
01:42:11 <ais523> xor
01:42:17 <oerjan> i take it it's V overstriked with -
01:42:24 <ais523> yes
01:42:59 <boily> his523. I believe forall is better.
01:44:21 <ais523> OK, thanks
01:44:40 <oerjan> `unicode XOR
01:44:40 <HackEgo> ​⊻
01:44:43 <ais523> I didn't realise there were two identical-looking (in all the fonts I've seen them in) bookworms in Unicode until I tried to shapecatcher it
01:45:38 <boily> oerjan: that's not a XOR, that's a wormbook hth.
01:45:55 <oerjan> OH
01:46:37 <oerjan> i suppose it's not too good that the worm is missing
01:46:46 <oerjan> (missing the book, that is)
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02:02:51 <oerjan> ais523: did you see my O(log n) improvements. admittedly they're probably still not very optimal for constant factors...
02:03:32 <oerjan> *?
02:03:45 <ais523> oerjan: I'm missing context, so I'm guessing no
02:03:54 <oerjan> on the Incident talk page
02:04:18 <ais523> ah, no
02:04:26 <ais523> I'm glad it's possible though
02:05:18 <ais523> ooh, base fibonacci
02:05:33 <oerjan> it seemed the easiest way to keep it 01 based
02:05:56 <oerjan> although it's easy enough to adapt to other bases, as mentioned later
02:06:11 <ais523> also, that filler is amazing
02:06:33 <oerjan> i simplified it a bit later by using overlap rejection
02:08:42 <ais523> I don't think the problem of "good Incident filler" will be fixed until we find filler that doesn't need to embed the tokens themselves though
02:08:55 <ais523> and that has a reasonable length
02:09:02 <oerjan> heh
02:09:19 <ais523> my simulated annealing filler program can normally fill length-2 tokens using just three filler characters distinct from those in the tokens, within a minute or so of runtime
02:10:30 <ais523> I assume that using length-3 tokens would make filling harder, and possibly require a larger alphabet of filler characters
02:10:44 <ais523> and when your tokens get long enough, perhaps the filler needs to be multiple characters too
02:15:23 <oerjan> hm maybe you can see this as a graph problem, with an edge from each token to the other tokens that may follow it
02:15:51 <oerjan> three except for the one that's last in the program
02:16:46 <ais523> right, you only have to consider the tokens pairwise because if a combination of three tokens were relevant, you'd definitely have an overlap somewhere
02:20:30 <oerjan> the delimiters neighboring a token should be unique for each occurrence, that takes care of all strings containing a whole token
02:20:48 <oerjan> *for each occurrence of that token
02:22:19 <oerjan> you could perhaps use nine delimiters to simply encode the occurrence numbers of their neighbors.
02:23:14 <oerjan> (now i'm assuming we're using a reasonably large character set)
02:23:57 <oerjan> but then there still remains preventing repetition of substrings not containing a whole token
02:24:08 <oerjan> *triple repetition
02:26:22 <oerjan> ...that may not be the easiest thing to solve.
02:30:53 <ais523> right, the most common accidental tokens (I call these "incidents" in the docs, just because I can) involve a delimeter plus half a token
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O [Ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O [ꚙ]
02:36:57 <shachaf> < A69B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER CROSSED O [ꚛ]
02:37:11 <shachaf> new cyrillic O letters in unicode hth
02:37:33 <oerjan> but no DOUBLE-CROSSED? scow.
02:37:52 <shachaf>
02:40:12 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE CROSS
02:40:17 <HackEgo> No output.
02:41:56 <shachaf> not new enough hth
02:42:01 <shachaf> `ls share
02:42:02 <HackEgo> 8ballreplies \ airports.dat \ autowelcome_status \ awesome \ candide \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ conscripts \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ dict-words \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ headers \ headers.gch \ hello \ lua \ maimer \ maimery \ maze \ mtg \ nothp \ recipe \ scapegoats \ scowrevs \ sedtest \ UnicodeData.txt \ units.dat \ usercm
02:42:17 <shachaf> `fetch ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
02:42:22 <HackEgo> 2016-12-03 02:41:51 URL: ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt [1686443] -> "UnicodeData.txt" [1]
02:42:29 <shachaf> `mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:42:30 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `UnicodeData.txt share/' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
02:42:37 <shachaf> drat and double drat
02:42:39 <shachaf> `` mv UnicodeData.txt share/
02:42:41 <HackEgo> No output.
02:42:58 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE CROSS
02:42:59 <HackEgo> No output.
02:43:07 <oerjan> LIES
02:43:41 <oerjan> `unidecode ⛵
02:43:42 <HackEgo> ​[U+26F5 SAILBOAT]
02:44:26 <oerjan> `unicode DOUBLE O
02:44:27 <HackEgo> U+033F COMBINING DOUBLE OVERLINE \ UTF-8: cc bf UTF-16BE: 033f Decimal: &#831; \ ̿ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \ U+1AB8 COMBINING DOUBLE OPEN MARK BELOW \ UTF-8: e1 aa b8 UTF-16BE: 1ab8 Decimal: &#6840; \ ᪸ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \
02:44:35 -!- FreeFull has joined.
02:44:55 <oerjan> `unicode LETTER DOUBLE O
02:44:57 <HackEgo> U+A698 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 98 UTF-16BE: a698 Decimal: &#42648; \ Ꚙ (ꚙ) \ Lowercase: U+A699 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O \ UTF-8: ea 9a 99 UTF-16BE: a699 Decimal: &#42649; \ ꚙ (Ꚙ) \ Uppercase: U+A698 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \
02:45:55 <shachaf> Oh, you were searching for something that wasn't even in there.
02:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TOMB CHICKEN).
02:51:18 <oerjan> boily's quit messages are becoming more grave
03:13:06 <oerjan> `grwp piggle
03:13:12 <HackEgo> hppavilion1:higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed \ Binary file reflection matches
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03:15:17 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:15:32 <oerjan> hth.
03:15:45 <ais523> well, I imagine it helped someone :-D
03:19:16 <shachaf> someone in the past, perhaps
03:20:13 <shachaf> If Lobachevsky's name fit the pattern, it would go well with "Minskily Pinskily"
03:20:21 <shachaf> `doag quotes
03:20:23 <HackEgo> 9699:2016-11-16 <ais52̈3> addquote <shachaf> ais523: Hmm, I think the wisdom database is like the quotes file, except it\'s for when people think they\'re being funny, rather than when other people think they\'re funny. \ 9643:2016-11-07 <oerjän> addquote <hppavilion[1]> I\'m waiting for the sequels to Gravity to come out: Electromagnetism and t
03:20:44 <shachaf> `addquote <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:20:47 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / calling from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:20:48 <shachaf> Calling?
03:21:07 <oerjan> is that the wrong word?
03:23:18 <shachaf> Maybe it's Nynorsk English and not American English.
03:24:10 <oerjan> ...i guess i should have used hail.
03:25:16 <shachaf> `sedlast 1299s/call/hail/
03:25:16 <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:25:18 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
03:25:26 <ais523> hailing is better I think
03:25:29 <shachaf> good thing you said it at the last moment there
03:25:37 <shachaf> otherwise i'd've been misquoting you
03:25:48 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a time travel quote
03:25:54 <shachaf> true enough
03:25:57 <ais523> oerjan retroactively unmisquoted himself
03:26:00 <shachaf> i,i temporarily misquoting
03:26:07 <shachaf> i,i temporally misquoting
03:26:32 <shachaf> `quote Munsk
03:26:35 <HackEgo> 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:26:59 <shachaf> Hmm, how about adding a command on the third-to-last line?
03:27:16 <shachaf> A comma
03:27:30 <shachaf> Also on the second line.
03:27:33 <shachaf> And the first line.
03:27:39 <ais523> the slashes work as commas
03:27:42 <shachaf> This reminds me of a double dactyl.
03:27:47 <ais523> newline is a punctuation mark on IRC, after all
03:28:46 <shachaf> Higgledy-piggledy / Emily Dickinson / Liked to use dashes / Instead of full stops. // Nowadays, faced with such / Idiosyncracy / Critics and editors / Send for the cops.
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03:45:45 <oerjan> i had commas initially, that was one of the things i was checking the hppavilion one for
03:46:03 <oerjan> oh wait
03:46:23 <oerjan> it was the period. oh wait.
03:46:30 <shachaf> were you going by my example?
03:46:32 <shachaf> bad idea hth
03:46:49 * oerjan sdrawkcab gnihtyreve seod
03:47:27 <shachaf> That one wasn't even a good one.
03:47:32 <shachaf> I've written good ones in here before, I think.
03:47:36 <shachaf> Or maybe it was another channel.
03:48:52 <oerjan> oh well.
03:49:16 <oerjan> shachaf: i was only checking it for formatting hth
03:49:32 <shachaf> and even that didn't work out hth
03:49:36 <oerjan> fancy
03:49:45 <shachaf> or maybe it did
03:49:53 <shachaf> and i should stop being scow about it
03:49:55 <shachaf> wth
03:51:19 <oerjan> oc
03:51:38 <shachaf> Apparently profunctor optics are what it takes to be proficient at functional programming nowadays.
03:51:44 <oerjan> `grwp /
03:51:45 <HackEgo> ​☃:Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. \ evilipse:evilipse, the most obnoxious of evil people, likes to use chmod 000 / -R \ ha:Ha van szíved, hogy mindazt, mit elértél, / Ha kell, egyetlen kockára rakd, / s túltegyed magad, ha veszteség ér, / s ne legyen róla többé e
03:52:13 <oerjan> i seem to like not using commas
03:52:18 <shachaf> That's fine.
03:52:26 <shachaf> There are no wisdomfmt rules.
03:53:22 <oerjan> `quote /
03:53:23 <HackEgo> 428) <monqy> beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 476) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 1028) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone \ 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thoug
03:54:04 <oerjan> `2 quote " / "
03:54:06 <HackEgo> 2/3:in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." \ 1258) <mauris> MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW \ 1299) <oerjan> Minskily, Munskily / ais523 / hailing from Birmingham / is a sublime // master of intricate / esotericity
03:54:39 <oerjan> a sublime poetry collection
03:54:47 <oerjan> now food ->
03:54:49 <ais523> is there a `3 as well? if so, how far do the numbers go?
03:54:57 <ais523> or do we generate them automatically
03:54:59 <shachaf> There are `1 and `2
03:55:02 <ais523> (idea: using `n generates a command for `n+1)
03:55:08 <shachaf> `spam
03:55:09 <HackEgo> 3/3: / yet is confounded by / travel in time.
03:55:15 <ais523> (thus if used as intended we never run out)
03:55:33 <shachaf> Well, the only reason `2 exists is if you forgot to use `1
03:55:43 <shachaf> Otherwise you can use `spam n to see the nth line of output of the previous command.
03:55:54 <shachaf> nth IRC line, I mean. Not line line.
03:56:06 <ais523> oh, I see, `1 sets up for `spam, and `2 retroactively `1s the last message
03:56:06 <ais523> but you have to tell it what it was because HackEgo isn't stateful unless you tell it to be
03:56:33 <shachaf> Right.
03:56:38 <shachaf> We could replace `` with `1
03:56:49 <shachaf> But that has drawbacks.
03:57:30 <ais523> yes, useless commits for every command that doesn't overspam
03:57:44 <ais523> another possibility is to commit only if the command generates multiple IRC lines of output
03:57:47 <shachaf> No, spam doesn't commit.
03:57:57 <ais523> oh, it uses tempfiles?
03:58:11 <shachaf> /tmp doesn't persist across HackEgo invocations.
03:58:18 <shachaf> But /hackenv/tmp is in .hgignore
04:00:36 <ais523> now I'm wondering what happens if you put .hgignore in itself
04:00:46 <ais523> would the change not be saved? or would it be impossible to revert?
04:01:05 <shachaf> hg checks .hgignore on commit
04:01:09 <ais523> I guess it'd revert because the .hgignore would be versioned in the revision you're reverting /to/…
04:01:54 <shachaf> No, it wouldn't be reverted. It would just not be recorded.
04:02:05 <shachaf> One trick you can do is putting a wildcard in .hgignore that ignores everything.
04:02:53 <shachaf> I think the effect of that is that all changes until the wildcard is removed aren't committed.
04:03:17 <shachaf> Wait, maybe I'm thinking of the other case, where you put canary in .hgignore and delete it.
04:03:23 <shachaf> There were too many cases, I can't remember.
04:03:24 <ais523> wouldn't that change to .hgignore itself not be commited?
04:03:31 <shachaf> The point is, we figured out how to delete canary.
04:03:38 <shachaf> (But not how to commit it.)
04:03:39 <ais523> I like the idea of ignoring the canary, though
04:03:45 <ais523> it still wouldn't be a /proper/ deletion of the canary though, would it?
04:03:49 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:03:50 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:03:56 <ais523> would a revert restore it?
04:04:01 <shachaf> `` echo '^canary' >> .hgignore
04:04:04 <HackEgo> No output.
04:04:05 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:04:07 <HackEgo> No output.
04:04:08 <shachaf> `file canary
04:04:11 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:04:15 <shachaf> Hmm.
04:04:19 <shachaf> `cat canary
04:04:19 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:28 <ais523> race condition?
04:04:30 <shachaf> `` grep '' canary
04:04:31 <HackEgo> cat: canary: No such file or directory
04:04:43 <ais523> cat?
04:04:46 <shachaf> `xxd canary
04:04:47 <HackEgo> 0000000: 6361 743a 2063 616e 6172 793a 204e 6f20 cat: canary: No \ 0000010: 7375 6368 2066 696c 6520 6f72 2064 6972 such file or dir \ 0000020: 6563 746f 7279 0a ectory.
04:05:02 <ais523> oh, that message is actually the contents of canary
04:05:06 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:05:06 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary
04:05:25 <shachaf> `sled .hgignore//2s,.,,
04:05:26 <ais523> `revert
04:05:27 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/ \ canary
04:05:31 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:05:33 <shachaf> oops
04:05:39 <ais523> err, hmm, I think I raceconditioned your revert
04:05:43 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:05:44 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary
04:05:45 <ais523> err, your correction
04:05:47 <ais523> yes
04:05:49 <ais523> `revert
04:05:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
04:05:58 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:05:59 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ canary
04:05:59 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:06:00 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ canary
04:06:03 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:06:05 <HackEgo> No output.
04:06:07 <shachaf> `file canary
04:06:09 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:06:15 <shachaf> Hmm, how did we remove canary back then?
04:06:44 <ais523> I know I tried to replace it with a symlink to itself once, but I don't think that worked
04:06:49 <ais523> `ln -sf canary canary
04:06:50 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information.
04:06:54 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary
04:06:57 <HackEgo> ln: `canary' and `canary' are the same file
04:07:09 <shachaf> `slwd .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:10 <HackEgo> Roswbud!
04:07:13 <ais523> …and why would ln care about that?
04:07:16 <shachaf> `sled .hgignore//2s#.*#.*#
04:07:18 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/ \ .*
04:07:28 <shachaf> `rm canary
04:07:31 <HackEgo> No output.
04:07:34 <shachaf> `file canary
04:07:36 <HackEgo> canary: ASCII text
04:07:50 <ais523> `sled .hgignore//2,d
04:07:51 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 3: unexpected `,'
04:07:57 <ais523> `sled .hgignore//2,$d
04:07:59 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/
04:10:18 <shachaf> ?
04:11:24 <shachaf> `` echo ^canary/ >> .hgignore
04:11:26 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:35 <shachaf> `` rm -rf canary; mkdir canary
04:11:37 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:42 <shachaf> `` file canary
04:11:43 <HackEgo> canary: directory
04:11:46 <shachaf> `` rmdir canary
04:11:47 <HackEgo> No output.
04:11:49 <shachaf> `file canary
04:11:50 <HackEgo> canary: ERROR: cannot open `canary' (No such file or directory)
04:11:58 <shachaf> `` ls -l canary
04:11:59 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory
04:12:04 <shachaf> There we go.
04:12:29 <shachaf> Now all commits will fail.
04:17:31 <ais523> apart from commits that create canary, presumably?
04:17:41 <ais523> `` echo test | tee test
04:17:43 <HackEgo> test
04:17:46 <ais523> `cat test
04:17:47 <HackEgo> cat: test: No such file or directory
04:17:58 <shachaf> Well, creating canary won't be a commit, because it's ignored.
04:18:14 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:18:15 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/ \ ^canary/
04:18:28 <ais523> hmm
04:18:38 <ais523> `` sed -i '2,$d' .hgignore; touch canary
04:18:40 <HackEgo> ​.hgignore//^tmp/
04:18:44 <ais523> `cat .hgignore
04:18:45 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:18:58 <ais523> looks like it is possible after all :-)
04:19:19 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp; mv canary-tmp canary
04:19:20 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:19:38 <ais523> `file canary-tmp
04:19:39 <HackEgo> canary-tmp: symbolic link to `canary'
04:20:01 <ais523> `mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:01 <HackEgo> mv: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
04:20:05 <ais523> `` mv -f canary-tmp canary
04:20:06 <HackEgo> mv: `canary-tmp' and `canary' are the same file
04:21:10 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary-tmp2
04:21:12 <HackEgo> No output.
04:21:19 <ais523> `` mv canary-tmp2 canary-tmp
04:21:21 <HackEgo> No output.
04:21:37 <ais523> oh, so it allows /that/, but doesn't allow renaming a symlink over the file it's a symlink too?
04:21:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf ../canary tmp/canary-tmp3
04:21:50 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:04 <ais523> `cat tmp/canary-tmp3
04:22:05 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:19 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp3 canary
04:22:20 <HackEgo> mv: `tmp/canary-tmp3' and `canary' are the same file
04:22:27 <ais523> but after the rename, they wouldn't be!
04:22:38 <ais523> `rm tmp/canary-tmp3
04:22:38 <HackEgo> No output.
04:22:46 <ais523> (I tried to tab-complete that; it didn't work)
04:22:51 <ais523> `` ls -l canary*
04:22:52 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:18 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:23:35 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp4
04:23:36 <HackEgo> No output.
04:23:44 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:23:47 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:24:05 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary*
04:24:06 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary*: No such file or directory
04:24:14 <ais523> ??
04:24:25 <ais523> `` ls -l canary*
04:24:26 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:23 canary \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:20 canary-tmp -> canary
04:24:49 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary tmp/canary-tmp4; ls -l tmp/canary*
04:24:50 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:24 tmp/canary-tmp4 -> canary
04:24:58 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp4 canary
04:25:00 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp4': No such file or directory
04:25:01 <shachaf> ais523: What's possible after all?
04:25:19 <ais523> shachaf: committing into your system that doesn't allow commits
04:25:39 <shachaf> I think what I said was that it doesn't allow commits as long as that file doesn't exist.
04:25:42 <shachaf> Or that's what I meant.
04:25:55 <ais523> although I don't seem to be able to create tmp/canary-tmp4 and have it persist, for some reason
04:25:56 <shachaf> But creating the file isn't a commit in itself, because it's ignored.
04:26:08 <ais523> which is bizarre, as tmp/canary-tmp3 worked fine
04:26:18 <shachaf> Oh, right. The mv trick.
04:26:25 <ais523> `` mv canary-tmp tmp
04:26:27 <HackEgo> No output.
04:26:34 <ais523> `` cat tmp/canary-tmp
04:26:35 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:46 <shachaf> `` echo hi > tmp/test
04:26:46 <ais523> `` cat canary-tmp
04:26:47 <HackEgo> No output.
04:26:47 <HackEgo> cat: canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:26:51 <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test .
04:26:53 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:26:53 <ais523> aha, I think I know what's happening
04:26:56 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:26:57 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:27:05 <ais523> broken symlinks get deleted from the filesystem
04:27:08 <ais523> `` touch tmp/canary
04:27:08 <HackEgo> No output.
04:27:11 <shachaf> It's pretty, what's the word oerjan uses?
04:27:18 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:19 <shachaf> fiendish
04:27:19 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `tmp/canary-tmp': File exists
04:27:31 <ais523> `` ll tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:31 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ll: command not found
04:27:35 <shachaf> Did you see the tmp/ thing I did above? It's not related to links.
04:27:36 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:27:37 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 3 04:25 tmp/canary-tmp -> canary
04:27:42 <shachaf> (Or to canary.)
04:27:57 <ais523> I don't think so
04:28:02 <ais523> `` mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:28:04 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory
04:28:13 <ais523> `` ls -l tmp/canary-tmp
04:28:14 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory
04:28:24 <shachaf> Here:
04:28:26 <ais523> ????
04:28:29 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:28:30 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:28:32 <shachaf> `` echo hi > tmp/test
04:28:34 <HackEgo> No output.
04:28:38 <shachaf> `cat tmp/test
04:28:38 <HackEgo> hi
04:28:42 <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test .
04:28:44 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:28:46 <shachaf> `` ls -l test tmp/test
04:28:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access tmp/test: No such file or directory
04:28:48 <shachaf> hth
04:29:01 <ais523> `` ls -ld tmp
04:29:02 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Dec 3 04:28 tmp
04:29:26 <shachaf> This tricks people who try to make a big file in one commit by writing into tmp/ in a few commands and then moving it.
04:29:30 <shachaf> It's just gone.
04:29:48 <ais523> does tmp get cleared whenever you write to outside tmp, then?
04:29:52 <ais523> it doesn't seem to get cleared instantly
04:30:01 <ais523> `` ls -l canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:02 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access tmp/canary-tmp: No such file or directory \ mv: cannot stat `tmp/canary-tmp': No such file or directory \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:27 canary
04:30:10 <ais523> `` ln -s canary tmp/canary-tmp; mv tmp/canary-tmp canary
04:30:11 <HackEgo> No output.
04:30:17 <ais523> `` ls -l canary
04:30:19 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Dec 3 04:29 canary
04:30:28 <shachaf> tmp/ isn't getting cleared.
04:30:30 <shachaf> `ls tmp
04:30:31 <HackEgo> canary \ spline \ spout
04:30:37 <ais523> I guess making the canary a symlink isn't getting committed
04:31:18 <ais523> but I'm not sure what's causing, say, mv to fail to find files in tmp
04:31:20 <ais523> unless mv is not /bin/mb
04:31:23 <ais523> */bin/mv
04:31:27 <ais523> `` which mv
04:31:28 <HackEgo> ​/bin/mv
04:32:01 <shachaf> mv is mv
04:32:19 <shachaf> `` echo hi; echo hi > test
04:32:21 <HackEgo> hi
04:32:34 <shachaf> `` echo hi >&2; echo huh > test
04:32:36 <HackEgo> hi
04:32:47 <ais523> <shachaf> `cat tmp/test <HackEgo> hi <shachaf> `` mv tmp/test . <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `tmp/test': No such file or directory
04:32:49 <shachaf> I don't remember the details anymore.
04:32:52 <shachaf> `rm test
04:32:54 <HackEgo> No output.
04:32:55 <ais523> this is probably the best example/counterexample
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04:33:00 <shachaf> I know what's happening, though.
04:33:11 <ais523> oh, the fact that HackEgo runs each command twice
04:33:18 <ais523> once for side effects, once for the output
04:33:28 <ais523> if I call mv, the file's already moved by the time it goes to run it for the output
04:33:30 <shachaf> That's not quite right.
04:33:32 <ais523> and so it doesn't find it the second time
04:33:45 <shachaf> It runs it once, and then if the repository changes, it reverts to a clean state and runs it again.
04:33:52 <shachaf> While not allowing other commands in parallel.
04:33:55 <shachaf> To avoid race conditions.
04:34:10 <shachaf> But the revert doesn't restore the file in tmp/, because it's ignored.
04:34:18 <shachaf> And it does delete the destination file.
04:34:20 <ais523> right, so the file just vanishes altogether
04:34:24 <shachaf> Yes.
04:40:44 <shachaf> `` ls canary* tmp/canary*
04:40:45 <HackEgo> canary \ tmp/canary
04:40:50 <shachaf> `` rm tmp/canary
04:40:50 <HackEgo> No output.
04:40:53 <shachaf> `cat .hgignore
04:40:53 <HackEgo> ​^tmp/
04:41:15 <shachaf> I wish we could get to tmp/ via the HTTP server.
04:41:20 <shachaf> I don't like pastes being committed to hg.
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06:37:17 <zzo38> How could collaborative quiz writing with Internet Quiz Engine work?
06:37:38 <shachaf> How does regular quiz writing work?
06:39:10 <zzo38> It is simply a text file. The format would be the same in this case, I would just to see how collaborative quiz writing might be done
06:39:33 <shachaf> Use a collaborative text editor like Etherpad or Gobby to edit the text file together?
06:40:57 <zzo38> Maybe for real time collaboration (if that is what it does), but maybe there is other ways I don't know
06:41:20 <zzo38> Actually I think there are different things which can be wanted, such as real time collaboration or not real time
06:41:36 <shachaf> Real time is better than not real time.
06:48:04 <zzo38> I suppose one way might be to make discussion on IRC for various people to suggest questions and one person to write them into one file, but another way might be for anyone to edit the file as a wiki, although there still may be some issues involved with such thing specifically with Internet Quiz Engine or with quiz files for other systems too just in general.
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07:00:55 <shachaf> `5 w
07:01:06 <HackEgo> 1/2:the u//The U are a very mad people. \ phantom____________________hoover//<span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span> \ physiology//Physiology looks confusingly like psychology when written in English. \ nooga//no. \ dragon//Dragons are fractal creatures of magic, capable of shrinking or expanding to any size. T
07:01:28 <shachaf> `spam
07:01:28 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
07:01:36 <shachaf> `` type n
07:01:37 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: type: n: not found
07:01:46 <shachaf> `` ln -s spam bin/n
07:01:49 <HackEgo> No output.
07:02:02 <shachaf> `n 2
07:02:03 <HackEgo> 2/2:aneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels.
07:02:12 <shachaf> `cwlprits dragon
07:02:15 <HackEgo> oerjän
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08:06:12 <hppavilion[1]> `? members
08:06:29 <HackEgo> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
08:07:23 <zzo38> I found that the uncompressed size of FreeUHS is smaller than the compressed size of OpenUHS (not counting the stuff under the javadoc/ directory). Even though, FreeUHS also includes such feature as regular expression search, toggle 88a mode, a compiler, and some other features.
08:08:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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08:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> `? regulars
08:09:35 <HackEgo> regulars? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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13:43:12 <boily> fungot: nostril.
13:43:22 <boily> fungot: I said nostril.
13:43:32 <boily> fungot: the nostril was said.
13:45:50 <fizzie> fungot: What have you got against nostrils?
13:45:50 <fungot> fizzie: i fnord accept the account in wikipedia as the one over there...
13:45:57 <myname> nostril no thrill
13:56:42 <boily> what's a stril?
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14:05:53 <Ox0dea> A coistril was something akin to a squire once.
14:06:00 <Ox0dea> Bonus points for being anagrammatical with "clitoris".
14:06:52 <Ox0dea> And "testril" is apparently an archaic synonym for "tester".
14:06:57 <Ox0dea> These are all the strils I know.
14:07:52 <fizzie> WordNet knows about Zestril.
14:07:54 <fizzie> @wn zestril
14:07:56 <lambdabot> *** "zestril" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
14:07:56 <lambdabot> Zestril
14:07:56 <lambdabot> n 1: an ACE inhibiting drug (trade names Prinival or Zestril)
14:07:56 <lambdabot> administered as an antihypertensive and after heart attacks
14:07:56 <lambdabot> [syn: {lisinopril}, {Prinival}, {Zestril}]
14:08:11 <Ox0dea> Proper nouns are verboten.
14:08:15 <fizzie> Zestril and nostril are the two stril nouns it knows.
14:08:33 <Ox0dea> I got my fancy ones from words-insane.
14:11:13 <boily> I'll try to use “testril” with my teammates. mwah ah ah.
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18:21:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50440&oldid=50437 * Slnetaiga * (+12) Added LAMPA
18:22:44 <Zarutian> one the topic of noise, why is there so much of it in todays world?
18:23:23 <Zarutian> an I am talking about audio noise made by thoughtlessness or brusequeness
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18:34:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LAMPA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50441 * Slnetaiga * (+1096) Initial
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18:35:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50442&oldid=50415 * Slnetaiga * (+26)
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19:08:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * John Cena 237894728 * New user account
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19:54:01 <Taneb> I finally uploaded my COMPLEX implementation
19:54:01 <Taneb> https://github.com/Taneb/COMPLEX
19:59:12 <boily> Tanelle. dig the file extension ^^
20:02:12 <Taneb> :D
20:02:42 <ybden> haha
20:04:42 <trout> boily lol
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20:24:31 <Kaynato> Someone's been trying to make a non-trivial quine in Daoyu and I don't know if I should tell them to stop
20:25:13 <Kaynato> Is there a way to prove a non-empty quine nonexistent in a specific language?
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21:11:05 <FreeFull> Is there any programming language that literally has programmable semicolons?
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21:23:48 <zzo38> How do you meant?
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21:36:30 <FreeFull> zzo38: One "analogy" for monads in haskell is programmable semicolons
21:36:41 <FreeFull> But I'm thinking about something more literal
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21:42:42 <zzo38> I don't know, but still it is difficult for me to figure out what is meant exactly
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22:07:03 <FreeFull> zzo38: At each semicolon, some extra code runs and decides what to do with that line
22:08:32 <zzo38> Ah, OK
22:09:04 <zzo38> I don't know of any such thing, nor does that really make much sense to me anyways exactly as is
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22:09:23 <zzo38> (and monads in Haskell don't work like that anyways)
22:12:46 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:15:43 <FreeFull> Yeah, they don't
22:28:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DROL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50443&oldid=50388 * BradleySadowsky * (+59) Add links, fix implementation naming
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23:06:26 <izalove> midnight spaghetti, anyone?
23:06:35 <Taneb> izalove, please
23:06:45 <izalove> \o/ come here
23:07:34 <Taneb> I think you may be a bit far away
23:07:39 <Taneb> Unless you are in, like, York
23:08:21 <izalove> maybe you're fast
23:08:22 <izalove> idk
23:08:40 <Taneb> I'll do my best
23:09:42 <shachaf> I made midnight spaghetti recently.
23:09:51 <shachaf> @time Taneb
23:09:51 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Sat Dec 03 23:09:44
23:10:09 <shachaf> Is Italian spaghetti better than the kind I bought at the store?
23:11:11 <izalove> i hope so because i bought expensive ones
23:11:23 <ybden> shachaf: Did you buy it at a store in Italy?
23:11:55 <Taneb> shachaf, I have not had Italian spaghetti in like 3 months
23:12:35 <Taneb> Although that was in Sudtirol, so it may not count
23:13:10 <shachaf> ybden: No.
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23:52:21 <FireFly> Taneb: hm, York is pretty far away from Bristol, isn't it
23:52:51 -!- mad has joined.
23:53:03 <mad> hey
23:53:19 <mad> gripe of the day:
23:53:37 <mad> x86 division is wrong in, like, 4 different ways at the same time
23:56:19 <zzo38> What ways is that?
23:56:42 <mad> zero division exceptions are bad and actually make the cpu slower
23:56:44 <impomatic_> I want to visit York soon for the retro games shop!
23:57:00 <mad> -1 / 2 gives 0. that's bad and irl it should give -1
23:57:59 <mad> also it generates multiple results - division result in one register and remainder in another. multiple result instructions are bad
23:58:12 <izalove> why
23:58:30 <mad> also some of the registers you use are fixed and that's also bad
23:58:32 <izalove> returning only one would mean to throw away information
23:58:56 <mad> (because compilers hate fixed registers because it turns register allocation into an np complete problem)
23:59:03 <zzo38> I think it is good if they can more easily to calculate both at once
23:59:06 <mad> also division sets flags which is also bad
23:59:19 <mad> izalove : it's good on a 486
23:59:41 <mad> which runs in order and doesn't do 4 operations at the same tiem
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