←2016-12-14 2016-12-15 2016-12-16→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:04:21 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
00:07:21 <\oren\> What the hell is Six sigma, it sounds like a very nasty pyramid scheme
00:09:24 <\oren\> and why am I getting spam about it and how did they get my work email
00:13:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:15:15 <shachaf> What's your work email?
00:15:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
00:15:35 <shachaf> Oh, I think I guessed it.
00:18:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
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00:31:16 <oerjan> спам по-русски
00:33:18 <oerjan> or should that be русский спам
00:33:53 <shachaf> `5 w
00:34:05 <shachaf> Hmm, `5 w should print 5 random welcomes.
00:34:15 <oerjan> ER
00:34:19 <HackEgo> 1/2:uaneb//Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules. \ piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ redundancy//Since redundancy
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00:34:43 <oerjan> shachaf: you could make it take an extra argument
00:34:59 <shachaf> `spam
00:35:02 <HackEgo> 2/2: exists, it's redundant for Taneb to invent it.
00:35:32 <shachaf> `dowt uaneb
00:35:49 <HackEgo> 9153:2016-10-05 <oerjän> learn Uaneb is the inventor of many fine things, such as Zork and e-modules.
00:35:58 <oerjan> `slwd piet//s/$//
00:36:06 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language.
00:36:16 <oerjan> or wait
00:36:18 <shachaf> good one
00:36:37 <oerjan> `slwd piet//s/..$/./
00:36:40 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language.
00:37:03 <oerjan> or is that better with a colored period
00:37:15 <shachaf> language.
00:38:01 <shachaf> `? york
00:38:05 <HackEgo> York used to be known as Amsterdam.
00:38:14 <shachaf> `? zork
00:38:15 <HackEgo> Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Uaneb invented it.
00:38:35 <oerjan> `` wisdom piet; wisdom אrjan
00:38:37 <HackEgo> piet//Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:38:55 <oerjan> wat
00:39:43 <oerjan> that got messed up by the rtl stuff
00:40:14 <oerjan> ...but there's no way to fix that without changing the key, is there
00:40:29 <oerjan> `wisdom אrjan
00:40:30 <HackEgo> ​אrjan//אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:41:06 <oerjan> it only happens when irssi wraps the א onto the beginning of the line, it seems :P
00:41:41 <shachaf> Makes sense.
00:42:06 <shachaf> `icode ℵ
00:42:09 <HackEgo> ​[U+2135 ALEF SYMBOL]
00:42:10 <shachaf> `icode א
00:42:12 <HackEgo> ​[U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF]
00:42:23 <shachaf> If you want, you can use ALEF SYMBOL instead of HEBREW LETTTER ALEF.
00:42:34 <shachaf> It won't force rtl.
00:43:40 <oerjan> `which q
00:43:42 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/q
00:43:54 <oerjan> shachaf: oh, that may be better
00:44:08 <oerjan> `uniencode ALEF SYMBOL
00:44:09 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found
00:44:17 <oerjan> `unicode ALEF SYMBOL
00:44:19 <HackEgo> ​ℵ
00:44:31 <oerjan> ...my terminal doesn't show that :(
00:44:37 <shachaf> Ah.
00:44:38 <shachaf> Mine does.
00:44:51 <shachaf> `unicode ALEF
00:44:59 <HackEgo> U+05D0 HEBREW LETTER ALEF \ UTF-8: d7 90 UTF-16BE: 05d0 Decimal: &#1488; \ א \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: R (Right-to-Left) \ \ U+0616 ARABIC SMALL HIGH LIGATURE ALEF WITH LAM WITH YEH \ UTF-8: d8 96 UTF-16BE: 0616 Decimal: &#1558; \ ؖ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Above) \ \
00:45:44 <oerjan> never mind, it's just a small random occurrence.
00:45:47 <oerjan> `cat bin/5
00:45:49 <HackEgo> cmd=quote; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:46:24 <oerjan> `type w
00:46:26 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
00:46:32 <oerjan> `which w
00:46:34 <HackEgo> ​/usr/bin/w
00:46:42 <oerjan> ...what's that.
00:46:43 <oerjan> `w
00:46:44 <HackEgo> ​ 00:45:57 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
00:46:47 <oerjan> oh right.
00:47:04 <oerjan> oh well, how often do we need that...
00:47:21 <oerjan> `` ln -s wisdom bin/w
00:47:26 <HackEgo> No output.
00:50:43 <xa0> ``whoami
00:50:45 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `whoami: not found
00:50:51 <xa0> hm
00:50:52 <xa0> ok
00:51:45 <oerjan> ``sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:51:46 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `sled: not found
00:51:52 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/[^;]*/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:51:56 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; [ "$1" == w ] && cmd=wisdom; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:52:02 <oerjan> argh
00:52:05 <oerjan> `revert
00:52:06 <xa0> sled?
00:52:43 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/.*dom/cmd="${1-quote}"/
00:52:59 <oerjan> *sigh*
00:53:19 <oerjan> DID SOMEONE DO SOMETHING TO HACKEGO
00:53:23 -!- computing has joined.
00:53:24 <oerjan> `echo hi
00:53:48 * oerjan looks at xa0 suspiciously
00:54:05 <\oren\> my font has both alephs and they are distinguihable
00:54:24 <xa0> wasnme.
00:54:24 <HackEgo> hi
00:54:26 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:54:27 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:54:39 <xa0> lol
00:55:00 <\oren\> it always says that canary thing
00:55:48 <\oren\> `ls canary
00:55:52 <HackEgo> canary
00:56:04 <\oren\> `file canary
00:56:07 <HackEgo> canary: empty
00:56:09 <oerjan> oh wait, did things get done in the wrong order...
00:56:10 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
00:56:12 <oerjan> `before
00:56:26 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:56:33 <oerjan> `revert
00:56:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
00:56:46 <oerjan> `cat bin/5
00:56:47 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do "$cmd"; done | sport
00:58:13 <oerjan> `cat bin/`
00:58:15 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
00:58:44 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/do/do eval --/
00:58:47 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport
00:58:52 <oerjan> `5 w
00:59:00 <HackEgo> 1/2:mockingbird//mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. \ burlesque//Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) \ galaxy//A galaxy is a star that feeds its litter with milk. \ alpha//Alpha is the numeric measurement of opaqueness, a dog with unusually high voice in the D
00:59:08 <oerjan> `5 w welcome
00:59:14 <HackEgo> 1/5:welcome.de//Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) \ welcome.eo//Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno
00:59:53 <oerjan> `mkx//bin/w//wisdom "$@"
00:59:55 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/mkx//bin/w//wisdom: No such file or directory
01:00:00 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:00:06 <HackEgo> bin/w
01:00:15 <oerjan> a wonder i ever manage to type anything correctly
01:00:21 <oerjan> `5 w
01:01:35 <oerjan> seems like the repo browser is also slow
01:02:01 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:02:13 <oerjan> OKAY
01:03:04 <oerjan> `w
01:03:40 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:04:03 <oerjan> @tell fizzie HackEgo keeps locking up and seems to be having some trouble with forking...
01:04:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:04:31 <fizzie> Hum.
01:04:36 <fizzie> I was about to go to sleep.
01:05:15 <fizzie> There's an unimaginable number of "[python] <defunct>"s in there.
01:05:28 <fizzie> Not sure if that's relevant.
01:05:53 <fizzie> I think I remember something about a missing wait.
01:06:28 <fizzie> ├─hackbot.freenod───socat───multibot───763*[python]
01:06:49 <fizzie> `ping
01:06:51 <HackEgo> pong
01:06:59 <fizzie> Now there's one more.
01:07:55 <fizzie> I wouldn't expect that to be enough to cause problems though.
01:08:50 <oerjan> well the repo browser was also pretty slow
01:08:58 <fizzie> There's also again a bunch of "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#0 stuck for 38s!"s, which I hadn't seen in a bit.
01:09:11 <oerjan> `w
01:09:36 <shachaf> 763 is unimaginable?
01:09:46 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:09:53 <oerjan> `wisdom
01:10:09 <fizzie> shachaf: Look, it seemed like a lot in a 'ps'.
01:10:31 <HackEgo> No output.
01:10:39 <oerjan> that must have timed out
01:10:53 <oerjan> i guess it may be just pooch slow
01:11:00 <LKoen_> do you guys know about a (somewhat old) game about making magic spells by adding a syllable every turn?
01:11:20 <LKoen_> I read about that a few years ago on some nomic-related site
01:11:34 <oerjan> . o O ( you know shachaf's pooches are getting to you when you substitute dog yourself just to keep him from doing it )
01:12:36 <shachaf> fizzie: Didn't they teach you at your job to be slightly mocking of numbers that seem large to others?
01:12:56 <fizzie> shachaf: Yeah, I just didn't check the actual number before I said anything.
01:13:10 <fizzie> Anyway, it's not like HackEgo's running on our infrastructure.
01:14:38 <fizzie> The multibot process does have a less-than-overall-system rlimit of 7971 processes from somewhere.
01:14:56 <fizzie> Maybe I should just stop and restart it.
01:15:22 <shachaf> fizzie: You could always move it to Google Cloud.
01:15:42 <fizzie> I've thought about that once or thrice. But it's not really my bot.
01:18:03 <oerjan> <\oren\> it always says that canary thing <-- fizzie has sent a pull request to Gregor, but it hasn't been merged
01:18:45 <fizzie> oerjan: I had a plan of just pulling the commits I made into the running copy from my bitbucket repository, in the hopes that it wouldn't mess things up too badly if Gregor were ever to merge them.
01:18:55 <fizzie> I may attempt that at some point.
01:19:38 <fizzie> In the meanwhile, I think the bot's wired in such a way that I can kill the multibot process, and it will restart.
01:19:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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01:20:08 <fizzie> `w
01:20:35 <fizzie> I can see it running.
01:20:44 <HackEgo> No output.
01:21:05 <fizzie> Well, it looked like it was attempting to start the umlbox thing.
01:21:15 <fizzie> `w
01:21:31 <fizzie> Hmm, it's starting a huge number of those instead.
01:21:43 <fizzie> 135 right now.
01:21:46 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:21:51 <fizzie> I don't remember seeing that before.
01:22:16 <fizzie> It's not exactly the most debuggable of programs.
01:22:26 <oerjan> `rm bin/w
01:22:30 <HackEgo> No output.
01:22:34 <oerjan> `cat bin/w
01:22:35 <HackEgo> cat: bin/w: No such file or directory
01:22:38 <oerjan> `w
01:22:39 <HackEgo> ​ 01:21:52 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
01:22:43 <oerjan> `wisdom
01:23:10 <oerjan> i just wanted to check if it was _somehow_ adding bin/w that broke things.
01:23:14 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:23:19 <oerjan> alas, no.
01:23:27 <oerjan> `revert
01:23:38 <fizzie> This thing should have an error log, I think.
01:23:44 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:23:48 <oerjan> `cat bin/w
01:23:50 <HackEgo> wisdom "$@"
01:24:11 <oerjan> `quote
01:24:11 <HackEgo> 1009) <fizzie> ... <fizzie> I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. <fizzie> octave:1> fact(20) <fizzie> Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. <fizzie> I don't think that's 20!.
01:24:25 <oerjan> it seems like the overhead of wisdom is too big for it
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01:24:35 <oerjan> `cat bin/wisdom
01:24:36 <HackEgo> wisdom "$@"
01:24:41 <oerjan> ARGH
01:24:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:24:56 * oerjan swats himself -----###
01:24:57 <fizzie> Oh, well, that makes some amount of sense.
01:25:00 <oerjan> fizzie: NEVER MIND
01:25:11 <oerjan> `doag bin/wisdom
01:25:18 <HackEgo> 9971:2016-12-15 <oerjän> mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@" \ 9770:2016-11-24 <oerjän> sled bin/wisdom//s,shuf,shuf --random-source=/dev/urandom, \ 9048:2016-09-16 <oerjän> sled bin/wisdom//s/that/That/;s/wise/wise./ \ 9047:2016-09-16 <fizzïe> ` sed -i -e \'s/{/if [ -n "$f" ]; then/;s/} |/else echo "that\'\\\'\'s not wise"; fi |/\' bin/wisdom \ 8655:20
01:25:40 <oerjan> `undo 9971
01:25:51 <HackEgo> patching file bin/wisdom
01:26:04 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:26:07 <HackEgo> bin/w
01:26:10 <oerjan> `5 w
01:26:41 <oerjan> ...damn
01:26:47 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes \ /hackenv/bin/wisdom: fork: retry: No child processes
01:26:53 <fizzie> `` ls -ld bin/w
01:26:54 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Dec 15 01:22 bin/w -> wisdom
01:27:00 <fizzie> Right-o.
01:27:07 <fizzie> I think mkx is following symlinks.
01:27:12 <oerjan> *sigh
01:27:26 <oerjan> `undo 9971
01:27:33 <HackEgo> patching file bin/wisdom
01:27:38 <oerjan> `rm bin/w
01:27:40 <HackEgo> No output.
01:27:46 <oerjan> `mkx bin/w//wisdom "$@"
01:27:48 <HackEgo> bin/w
01:27:53 <oerjan> `5 w
01:27:59 <HackEgo> 1/1: //The final frontier. \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ myndzi//myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. \ duck typing//Duck typing means typing on a terminal blindly without an echo. \ cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
01:28:02 <oerjan> whew
01:28:15 <fizzie> Crisis averted, so I'll resume going to sleep.
01:28:16 <oerjan> fizzie: also, undo restored the symlink without saying so.
01:28:25 <oerjan> good night, and sorry
01:31:58 <oerjan> shachaf: now `5 can be used for general commands as well
01:32:21 <shachaf> `cat bin/5
01:32:22 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do eval -- "$cmd"; done | sport
01:32:35 <shachaf> `5 break
01:32:38 <HackEgo> 1/0:
01:32:45 <oerjan> heh
01:33:08 <shachaf> eval is a bit scow, why not bash -c?
01:33:10 <shachaf> or `
01:33:24 <oerjan> i thought we were forking enough here
01:33:25 <shachaf> Or better yet, a HackEgo-style evaluator.
01:33:36 <shachaf> Which splits on the first space.
01:33:48 <oerjan> `cat bin/1
01:33:49 <HackEgo> ​\` "$@" |& sport
01:34:08 <oerjan> i guess it could at least be `1 compatible
01:34:36 <oerjan> but `1 doesn't split on first space only
01:35:33 -!- computing has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
01:35:39 <shachaf> 1 is meant to be `-compatible.
01:36:04 <oerjan> `sled bin/5//s/eval --/\\`/
01:36:08 <HackEgo> bin/5//cmd="${1-quote}"; for i in {1..5}; do \` "$cmd"; done | sport
01:36:18 <oerjan> yay i got the \s right
01:36:24 <oerjan> `5 break
01:36:26 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: break: only meaningful in a `for', `while', or `until' loop \ /ha
01:39:00 <shachaf> `q
01:39:00 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
01:39:12 <shachaf> `ls quines
01:39:12 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ ruby \ slashes
01:39:17 <shachaf> `quines/c
01:39:17 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ int main(){char*s="#include <stdio.h>%cint main(){char*s=%c%s%c;printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}%c";printf(s,10,34,s,34,10);}
01:39:23 <shachaf> hm
01:40:02 <shachaf> `` q > /tmp/q.c; gcc -o /tmp/q /tmp/q.c; /tmp/q | diff /tmp/q.c -
01:40:10 <HackEgo> No output.
01:40:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:40:51 <oerjan> `file bin/q
01:40:52 <HackEgo> bin/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x30b0a269173e4993500f3457b95364783b36be31, not stripped
01:41:09 <oerjan> `doag bin/q
01:41:13 <HackEgo> 2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 <Jafët> mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\
01:42:15 <oerjan> `doag q
01:42:19 <HackEgo> 3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 <oerjän> revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 <oerjän> rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 <Jafët> echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242
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01:43:15 <oerjan> `1 doag bin/q
01:43:20 <HackEgo> 1/4:2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 1771:2013-01-25 <Jafët> mv bin/q bin/\\? \ 1768:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ \\( "$topic" = "ngevd" \\) -a \\( -e wisdom/ngevd \\) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\
01:43:22 <oerjan> `n
01:43:23 <HackEgo> 2/4:(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisdom/$topic"\' > bin/q \ 1764:2013-01-25 <Jafët> echo -e \'#!/bin/sh\\ntopic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//")\\n([ "$topic" = "ngevd" -a -e wisdom/ngevd ] && cat /dev/urandom; exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0_o)/\xc2\xaf"; exit 1; }\\ncat "wisd
01:43:30 <oerjan> argh
01:43:38 <oerjan> `1 doag q
01:43:40 <HackEgo> 1/4:3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines \ 3137:2013-06-16 <oerjän> revert \ 3136:2013-06-16 <oerjän> rm q \ 2784:2013-04-22 <Jafët> echo \'const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261
01:43:41 <oerjan> `n
01:43:42 <HackEgo> 2/4:490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,};\' >q.c && gcc q.c -o q && rm q.c \ 2698:2013-04-14 <Jafët> rm q.c q \ 2697:2013-04-14 <Jafët> gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2691:2013-04-14 <Jafët> mv {,bin/}q && rm q.c \ 2687:2013-04-14 <Jafët> gcc q.c -o q && ./q \ 2565:2013-03
01:44:38 <oerjan> `n
01:44:38 <HackEgo> 3/4:-31 <ellioẗt> rm q \ 2564:2013-03-31 <ellioẗt> touch q; echo hi \ 1829:2013-01-25 <oerjän> rm q{,.1,.2} \ 1827:2013-01-25 <oerjän> fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q \ 1826:2013-01-25 <oerjän> mv q bin/\'?\' \ 1825:2013-01-25 <oerjän> cat q.2 >q \ 1822:2013-01-25 <oerjän> cat q.1 >q \ 1820:2013-01-25 <oerjän> chmod a+x q \
01:47:01 -!- heroux has joined.
01:47:52 -!- moonheart08 has joined.
01:48:01 <oerjan> `` q > quines/q2; rm bin/q
01:48:05 <HackEgo> No output.
01:48:12 <oerjan> or wait
01:48:17 <oerjan> `revert
01:48:18 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:48:27 <moonheart08> helloerjan
01:48:28 <oerjan> `` mv bin/q quines/q2
01:48:31 <HackEgo> No output.
01:48:32 <moonheart08> whatr you doing? :P
01:48:35 <oerjan> helloony
01:48:49 <oerjan> moonheart08: moving a quine into quines/
01:49:01 <moonheart08> is quines/ on the path? :P
01:49:06 <oerjan> `file quines/*
01:49:22 <HackEgo> quines/*: ERROR: cannot open `quines/*' (No such file or directory)
01:49:22 <oerjan> no
01:49:22 <oerjan> `` file quines/*
01:49:22 <HackEgo> quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ quines/q: E
01:49:22 <moonheart08> `./quines/q2
01:49:22 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
01:49:42 <oerjan> `2 file quines/*
01:49:43 <HackEgo> 2/3:nes/q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x9fe31dd00eda1cd05cc0ece7cc7d314dd7a4a4de, not stripped \ quines/q2: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildI
01:49:57 <moonheart08> `cat bin/2
01:49:58 <HackEgo> ​\` "$@" |& sport '' 2
01:50:03 <moonheart08> `cat bin/sport
01:50:04 <HackEgo> distort "${1:-/dev/stdin}" | spore '' "${2-1}"
01:50:10 <moonheart08> `cat bin/spore
01:50:10 <HackEgo> cat "${1:-/dev/stdin}" > /hackenv/tmp/spout; spam "${2-1}"
01:50:11 <moonheart08> ???
01:50:22 <moonheart08> `cat bin/distort
01:50:22 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ N=336 \ name = sys.argv[1] if len(sys.argv) > 1 else "/dev/stdin" \ with open(name, "r") as f: \ data = ' \\ '.join(f.read().splitlines()) \ for i in xrange(0, len(data), N): \ print data[i:i+N]
01:50:48 <moonheart08> `` cat "moo" > /dev/stdout
01:50:49 <HackEgo> cat: moo: No such file or directory
01:50:57 <moonheart08> `` echo "moo" > /dev/stdout
01:50:58 <HackEgo> moo
01:51:54 <moonheart08> `` echo "-echo `` echo "moo" >/dev/stdout" > /dev/stdout
01:51:55 <HackEgo> ​-echo echo moo >/dev/stdout
01:52:02 <oerjan> moonheart08: `2 is a convenient command for when you want to see the rest of output of a long one
01:52:30 <moonheart08> ah
01:52:36 <moonheart08> nice to know
01:53:20 <oerjan> (if there are more lines, use `n)
01:54:02 <oerjan> mind you, it needs to be deterministic, since it's rerun. otherwise the original is lost.
01:54:22 <moonheart08> you could put the output in a file and then cat it in `n for the output :P
01:54:33 <moonheart08> *points out the obvious*
01:54:40 <oerjan> moonheart08: that's what it does internally
01:55:03 <oerjan> the tmp/spout file
01:55:13 <moonheart08> `cat tmp/spout
01:55:14 <HackEgo> quines/c: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x8344e7066b280cfa665ff9926a0dddbd5d1a7df6, not stripped \ quines/cat: empty \ quines/ciol: ASCII text \ quines/haskell: ASCII text \ quines/perl: empty \ quines/python: empty \ qui \ nes/q:
01:55:20 <moonheart08> oh neat
01:55:42 <moonheart08> `pad print 1+!
01:55:43 <HackEgo> No output.
01:55:47 <moonheart08> damn
01:55:51 <moonheart08> forgot how i made that one work
01:55:56 <moonheart08> `cat bin/pad
01:55:57 <HackEgo> pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"
01:56:27 <moonheart08> `cat tmp/pad.print
01:56:27 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.print: No such file or directory
01:56:28 <moonheart08> `cat tmp/pad.*
01:56:29 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.*: No such file or directory
01:56:34 <moonheart08> `` cat tmp/pad.
01:56:35 <HackEgo> cat: tmp/pad.: No such file or directory
01:56:37 <moonheart08> `` cat tmp/pad.*
01:56:38 <HackEgo> No output.
01:56:49 <oerjan> `cat tmp.pad.print 1+!
01:56:51 <HackEgo> cat: tmp.pad.print 1+!: No such file or directory
01:57:09 <moonheart08> `pad 1 print 1+!
01:57:09 <HackEgo> No output.
01:57:12 <moonheart08> `ls tmp
01:57:13 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
01:57:25 <moonheart08> lol
01:57:28 <moonheart08> a derp indeed
01:57:58 <oerjan> oh i typoed / as .
01:58:59 <moonheart08> `` sed bin/pad s/shift/shift 1/
01:59:00 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: can't find label for jump to `in/pad'
01:59:10 <moonheart08> `` sed s/shift/shift 1/ bin/pad
01:59:11 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 13: unterminated `s' command
01:59:15 <moonheart08> `` sed 's/shift/shift 1/' bin/pad
01:59:23 <HackEgo> pad="$1"; shift 1; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"
01:59:23 <moonheart08> `` sed 's/shift/shift 1/' bin/pad > bin/pad
01:59:24 <HackEgo> No output.
01:59:29 <moonheart08> `pad 1 print 1+!
01:59:30 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
01:59:45 <moonheart08> `ls tmp
01:59:46 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
01:59:53 <moonheart08> `pad 12 print 1+!
01:59:53 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
01:59:58 <moonheart08> `ls tmp
01:59:59 <HackEgo> pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
02:00:08 <moonheart08> oerjan, isnt that odd?
02:00:54 <moonheart08> i've never seen it say 'success' before
02:01:50 <moonheart08> `pad 12 print 1+!; quit()
02:01:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pad: Success
02:02:13 <shachaf> Why is this channel being spammed?
02:02:17 <moonheart08> oh
02:02:18 <moonheart08> sorry
02:02:28 <shachaf> I look away for five minutes and someone is making a big mess.
02:03:22 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you mean c2?
02:04:54 <oerjan> shachaf: what?
02:04:58 <oerjan> `cat bin/pad
02:04:59 <HackEgo> No output.
02:05:11 <shachaf> `ls quines
02:05:12 <HackEgo> c \ cat \ ciol \ haskell \ perl \ python \ q \ q2 \ ruby \ slashes
02:05:15 <oerjan> moonheart08: you cannot pipe into a file you're reading from, with most commands
02:05:19 <shachaf> `cat quines/q
02:05:20 <HackEgo> ​ELF............>.....°@.....@.......Ð..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À................. ...........@......@............................................@.......@.....¬......¬........ ............°......°`.....°`.................... ...........Ø......Ø`.....Ø`..... ....... .............. ..
02:05:21 <moonheart08> oh
02:05:22 <moonheart08> RIP
02:05:24 <shachaf> Oh.
02:05:26 <shachaf> `quines/q
02:05:27 <HackEgo> const long main[]={7957687918238111208,2334956356649383027,8880356687520293229,13906764017533270909,1419365910561212297,2626879827020416271,16736655261603120681,17579598881254060795,1623775261490201216,5242470257800545608,1149026244854305933,14731853813082619653,194239108057989552,837530158351,};
02:05:31 <shachaf> `quines/q2
02:05:31 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
02:05:35 <shachaf> I see.
02:05:39 <oerjan> `doag bin/pad
02:05:41 <shachaf> `doat quines/q
02:05:48 <HackEgo> 9983:2016-12-15 <moonheart0̈8> ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 <fizzïe> mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//echo $"$(echo $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfil
02:05:50 <HackEgo> 3138:2013-06-16 <oerjän> mv q quines
02:05:54 <oerjan> `undo 9983
02:06:00 <HackEgo> patching file bin/pad
02:06:58 <oerjan> moonheart08: shift is equivalent to shift 1, that's not your problem
02:07:26 <oerjan> your problem is that when invoked as `pad, it only gets one argument
02:07:34 <moonheart08> oh
02:07:34 <moonheart08> lol
02:08:07 <moonheart08> `` echo 'pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad"' > bin/pad
02:08:08 <HackEgo> No output.
02:08:16 <moonheart08> ``pad 1 print 1+1
02:08:16 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `pad: not found
02:08:21 <moonheart08> `` pad 1 print 1+1
02:08:21 <HackEgo> No output.
02:08:26 <moonheart08> `ls tmp
02:08:27 <HackEgo> pad.1 \ pad.1 print 1+! \ pad.print 1+! \ spline \ spout
02:08:32 <moonheart08> oerjan, i am a derp
02:09:42 <shachaf> What is this pad thing about?
02:09:51 <shachaf> Why is everything cluttering up things?
02:10:33 <moonheart08> just a mini multiline in a box. was an experiment
02:10:38 <moonheart08> i'll remove it if you want
02:13:38 <oerjan> `doag bin/pad
02:13:41 <HackEgo> 9984:2016-12-15 <oerjän> undo 9983 \ 9983:2016-12-15 <moonheart0̈8> ` sed \'s/shift/shift 1/\' bin/pad > bin/pad \ 9106:2016-09-26 <fizzïe> mkx bin/pad//pad="$1"; shift; echo "$@" >> "tmp/pad.$pad" \ 9105:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//printf "$(printf $2)\\n" >> "tmp/$(echo $1)padfile" \ 9104:2016-09-26 <evilmoön> mkx bin/pad//echo $"
02:13:47 <Jafet> `quines/cat
02:13:47 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success
02:13:56 <oerjan> moonheart08: i had already repaired the file, that's what the undo was for
02:14:10 <moonheart08> oh
02:14:12 <moonheart08> didnt notice
02:14:13 <moonheart08> lol
02:14:50 <oerjan> we've got a lot of weird commands.
02:15:00 <Jafet> `` stat -c%A quines/cat && cat quines/cat
02:15:00 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x
02:15:20 <Jafet> `` doag quines/cat
02:15:24 <HackEgo> 1569:2013-01-18 <FreeFul̈l> chmod +x quines/cat \ 1568:2013-01-18 <shachäf> touch quines/cat
02:15:24 <oerjan> Jafet: some of those files need to be run with an interpreter
02:15:28 <oerjan> `cat quines/cat
02:15:29 <HackEgo> No output.
02:15:35 <oerjan> see? perfect quine.
02:15:48 <oerjan> `perl quines/perl
02:15:49 <HackEgo> No output.
02:15:51 <moonheart08> lol
02:16:21 <moonheart08> the zero char quine 2000
02:16:29 <oerjan> `bash quines/cat
02:16:30 <HackEgo> No output.
02:16:39 <oerjan> `quines/cat
02:16:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Success
02:17:07 <oerjan> alas hackego is a little noisy, so it doesn't really work to make that +x
02:17:19 <Jafet> `` chmod -x quines/{cat,python,ruby,perl}
02:17:21 <HackEgo> No output.
02:17:24 <oerjan> (even though it's a bash quine too)
02:17:26 -!- moonheart08 has changed nick to evilmoon.
02:17:37 -!- doesthiswork1 has changed nick to doesthiswork.
02:18:41 <oerjan> `cat bin/python
02:18:43 <HackEgo> cat: bin/python: No such file or directory
02:18:50 <oerjan> `cat quines/python
02:18:51 <HackEgo> No output.
02:18:56 <oerjan> `cat quines/ruby
02:18:57 <HackEgo> No output.
02:19:17 <shachaf> `` echo 'No output.' > quines/cat
02:19:19 <HackEgo> No output.
02:19:22 <shachaf> `quines/cat
02:19:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/quines/cat: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/quines/cat: cannot execute: Permission denied
02:19:34 <shachaf> `cat quines/cat
02:19:35 <HackEgo> No output.
02:19:36 <oerjan> ...
02:19:58 <Jafet> cat is ideal for writing quines
02:20:32 <Jafet> `` echo '#!/bin/cat' >quines/cat && chmod +x quines/cat
02:20:34 <HackEgo> No output.
02:20:38 <Jafet> `quines/cat
02:20:39 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/cat
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05:28:04 <hppavilion[1]> `? english
05:28:21 <HackEgo> English is an inherently ambiguous context-sensitive language that is too powerful to fully describe itself.
05:29:32 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode Π
05:29:36 <HackEgo> ​[U+03A0 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER PI]
05:30:01 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode П
05:30:03 <HackEgo> ​[U+041F CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER PE]
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05:46:55 <zzo38> Do you know how to code review http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/raw/tavernc-parser.c?name=6156d70564da7cdfced7aa6cc25350dac895ea1b (except the dispatch, which is incompleted)?
05:47:23 <zzo38> And this document (it is related to it) http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/wiki?name=Parser
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05:49:53 <\oren\> I have bold and italic letters in my font but I'm adding bold-italic ones
05:51:25 <\oren\> so far I have C𝐂𝐶𝖢ℂℭ𝕮 and 𝒞
05:52:12 <\oren\> but I need to add 𝑪𝙲 and some others
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06:26:45 <\oren\> did you know that you can track how much urine is in the urine tank on the space station in real time?
06:31:03 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Uh, yeah.
06:32:12 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: (I didn't actually. Thanks I guess?)
06:32:19 <hppavilion[1]> Is it possible to calculate the length of the arc of a unit circle from (1, 0) to some known (x, y) on the circle without using triggy stuff?
06:35:48 <\oren\> you could use complex numbers
06:36:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: not really. the length is after all arccos(x).
06:37:04 <oerjan> and also arcsin(y).
06:37:30 <oerjan> and y = sqrt(1-x^2)
06:37:42 <\oren\> θ = log(x/i+y)
06:37:44 <oerjan> (in the first quadrant)
06:38:06 <oerjan> so no matter what you do, you get the trig back.
06:38:31 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Darn.
06:38:37 <\oren\> but if your log function supports that then you probaby already have support for trig anywya
06:38:47 <oerjan> using complex numbers is just a roundabout way of using trig, or an alternate way of calculating trig.
06:39:35 <\oren\> oerjan: specifically, on many platforms it's a way of doing trig without worrying about quadrants
06:40:07 <oerjan> perhaps. there's also atan2 :)
06:40:46 <oerjan> > atan2 0 1
06:40:48 <lambdabot> 0.0
06:40:52 <oerjan> > atan2 1 0
06:40:55 <lambdabot> 1.5707963267948966
06:41:56 <oerjan> which is exactly the function asked for, really
06:42:16 <oerjan> > atan2 (-1) 0
06:42:18 <lambdabot> -1.5707963267948966
06:42:30 <oerjan> > atan2 0 (-1)
06:42:32 <lambdabot> 3.141592653589793
06:47:20 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that's you anser then
06:48:46 <\oren\> https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/3639
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11:41:32 <boily> @massages-loud
11:41:32 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
11:42:57 <hppavilion[1]> Ham, does quantity calculus ever use log? >:D
11:44:22 * boily lightly thwack hppavilion[1] for not making sense in the morning
11:44:41 <hppavilion[1]> boily: What?
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12:48:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S and K Turing-completeness proof]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50517&oldid=46030 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Example */
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13:55:26 <moonythedwarf> zzaew/.lkjhgbvnmkjgfcvbhgfcvbhjklkm cxsertwsdfvbnmkoiuytrewdvwedfvcdwddsdswdwsdc /w
13:55:36 <moonythedwarf> err
13:55:38 <moonythedwarf> derp
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14:10:41 <b_jonas> `quote
14:11:06 <HackEgo> 811) <kmc> i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft <kmc> i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft
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14:43:23 <moonythedwarf> moo
14:45:42 <Taneb> nythedwarf
14:45:48 <moonythedwarf> hi Taneb!
14:45:49 <moonythedwarf> :D
14:45:56 <Taneb> Hi!
14:48:27 <Jafet> `quote starcraft
14:48:36 <HackEgo> 811) <kmc> i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft <kmc> i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft
14:50:06 <moonythedwarf> lol
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14:59:17 <int-e> it's damn hard to predict which programs will run with wine and which ones won't.
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15:10:16 <moonythedwarf> int-e, agreed
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16:02:38 <oerjan> today's second mezzacotta character has awesome blog readers, i see
16:24:06 <oerjan> "This is the first time we've found dinosaur material preserved in amber," co-author Ryan McKellar, of the Royal Saskatchewan Museum in Canada, told the BBC News website.
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16:25:22 * oerjan is a bit late to this
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17:14:03 * oerjan disappointed the bbc article had no jurassic park reference
17:24:37 <b_jonas> `wisdo
17:24:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdo: not found
17:24:45 <b_jonas> `wisdom
17:24:50 <HackEgo> wegian//A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
17:25:39 <oerjan> hm didn't we have someone irish here at some point
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17:26:19 <b_jonas> fungot, are you irish?
17:26:19 <fungot> b_jonas: as well, could you create a nifty new package in which to load source in the world on occasion. that being said, r5rs is rather slim, so implementations can ( and do) very widely on how they use the fnord
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17:29:27 <\oren\> I'm approximately 10% irish
17:30:19 -!- zzo38 has joined.
17:30:41 <\oren\> and apparently that's enough to put some red in my hair
17:30:52 <\oren\> genetics is weird
17:32:02 <\oren\> especially the thing where traits can skip generations
17:36:13 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes, genetics is strange. I just read that a Half-Green-Dragon Green Dragon has weaker attacks but stronger attacks than an ordinary Green Dragon of the same age category, because that's what he inherits from his Green Dragon ancestor.
17:36:31 <b_jonas> s/weaker attacks but stronger attacks/weaker attacks but stronger defense/
17:40:38 <\oren\> wait what
17:41:05 <\oren\> i was thinking that the concept made sense and then I reread it
17:41:45 <int-e> fungot: slim and trim, you said?
17:41:45 <fungot> int-e: if n 0) or ( ( a b) ( a
17:41:57 <\oren\> half dragons are supposed to be the offspring of polymorhed dragons right
17:42:00 <int-e> fungot: I have to admit that's rather elegant
17:42:00 <fungot> int-e: not in reference to her attempts at getting a marine biology degree: halusin ostaa tai saada fnord cd- fnord tää on tosi fnord.
17:43:07 <int-e> fungot: I think you lost me at "marine"
17:43:07 <fungot> int-e: what does it do with the association fnord associate french with fnord cuisine and fnord arts is very good
17:44:31 <\oren\> so a half green dragon green dragon is the ofspring of a green dragon that polymorphed emself into a... green dragon and then mated with another green dragon?
17:45:22 <int-e> `grwp drosophila
17:45:45 <HackEgo> Binary file reflection matches
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17:55:49 <Jafet> I hear that biologists are drosophiles
17:57:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: I don't see why the parent has to be polymorphed.
17:58:12 <b_jonas> half-dragons are descendants of dragons, but I don't think polymorph has to be involved
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18:04:44 <\oren\> well there has to be some sort of starngeness otheriwse all green dragons would be half green dragosn
18:07:20 <\oren\> oh, the canadian goverment will ban asbestos
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19:55:25 <int-e> @check \f -> f True || f False
19:55:29 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 2 tests):
19:55:29 <lambdabot> <Bool -> Bool>
20:03:48 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to directly look at the logic in quantum computing with a variation on more classical predicate logic??
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20:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> Quantum computing relies on vectors. The field these vectors are over is, of course, the fields from Quantum Field Theory :P
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21:15:55 <shachaf> Cale: I don't remember whether we talked about this, but Leibniz's infinitesimals aren't nilpotent, are they?
21:17:18 <Cale> I don't actually know what "Leibniz's infinitesimals" refers to in a precise enough way to say :)
21:17:49 <shachaf> Neither do I.
21:18:12 <shachaf> But dx^2 is in general not 0, right?
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21:24:01 <Cale> In the thing I was discussing a while back with you, it wouldn't generally be 0, simply because dx was meant to be a real variable, and the only case where its square would be 0 would be the unusual case that it was as well.
21:24:30 <Cale> However, in the case of exterior algebra, dx /\ dx will be 0, because /\ is antisymmetric
21:26:28 <shachaf> Well, I still don't understand Leibniz notation.
21:26:41 <shachaf> But there's the version where you parameterize everything in terms of another variable.
21:27:33 <Cale> Or it can even be one of the d's
21:27:38 <Cale> right?
21:27:46 <shachaf> ?
21:28:03 <shachaf> What can?
21:28:14 <Cale> that "another variable" you mentioned
21:28:40 <Cale> Like, it works out just fine to say we're going to write dy = f'(x) dx and consider dy to be a function of x and dx
21:29:40 <shachaf> Maybe that works fine? I'm not sure.
21:29:51 <shachaf> What does d(dy/dx)/dx work out to in that case?
21:29:53 <Cale> Well, depends on what you want to do
21:30:42 <shachaf> I think the right answer is d(dy/dx)/dx = d^2y/dx^2 + dy/dx d^2x/dx^2
21:30:45 <Cale> heh, sort of -- though the implicit parameter usage is insane
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21:33:15 <shachaf> We only think that because we don't understand it.
21:35:06 <shachaf> I don't think I understand the version you were talking about, actually.
21:35:12 <shachaf> And what's wrong with the implicit parameter?
21:36:29 <Cale> Oh, well, it's sort of okay to take the dx to be the same there, but you're really dealing with a new thing, so you're sort of throwing away a free choice that you would have otherwise had
21:36:50 <Cale> I don't know if that statement I just made is clear enough to mean anything to you :)
21:37:54 <shachaf> I'm not sure that it is.
21:38:00 <Cale> So, okay, dy/dx is being regarded there as a new function, of just x, since presumably you're not hiding the fact that the outer /dx was really a /\partial x
21:38:04 <shachaf> Is it related to how the second derivative is a bilinear function?
21:38:11 <Cale> yeah
21:39:01 <shachaf> Sure, dy/dx is a new thing in terms of x.
21:39:11 <shachaf> If y=x^3, then dy/dx = 3x^2
21:39:33 <shachaf> Maybe I see what you mean.
21:39:56 <shachaf> oerjan has made the same objection before, but I think it turned out to be irrelevant in his case or something?
21:40:16 <Cale> Well, it's fairly irrelevant because everything is 1-dimensional here
21:40:46 <shachaf> I see.
21:40:55 <Cale> The vector space of linear maps R -> R is canonically isomorphic to R itself, and the space of bilinear maps R x R -> R is again
21:41:04 <shachaf> Right.
21:41:33 <shachaf> So can we make this notation work in a multidimensional case?
21:41:37 <shachaf> I mean total derivatives, not partial derivatives.
21:42:31 <Cale> yeah
21:42:45 <Cale> The definition you probably want is the one due to Fréchet.
21:43:31 <Cale> In fact, the Wikipedia presentation goes a bit farther than just multiple dimensions, and generalises to Banach spaces
21:44:19 <shachaf> Which one?
21:44:24 <Cale> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9chet_derivative
21:44:25 <otherbot> [Fréchet derivative - Wikipedia]
21:45:06 <shachaf> Hasn't this bot been requested not to do that in the past?
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21:46:35 <Cale> The idea is that if we have some function f: U -> V between some Banach spaces, then the derivative of f at some point x is supposed to be the best possible linear approximation to the manner in which f varies near the point x
21:46:48 <shachaf> Isn't this just the standard definition of a derivative in the multidimensional case?
21:46:54 <Cale> yeah
21:47:25 <Cale> Well, there are a bunch of other things you can do in order to talk about e.g. directional derivatives and such.
21:47:44 <Cale> But anyway...
21:48:30 <Cale> this means that the derivative of f as a whole is going to be a map from U to the space L(U,V) of linear maps from U to V
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21:49:31 <Cale> and so we can iterate this, the second derivative is going to be a map U -> L(U,L(U,V))
21:50:04 <shachaf> Say we have the 2-sphere x^2+y^2+z^2=1. We can talk about its derivative, which is a tangent plane at each point.
21:50:11 <shachaf> Maybe that's not called a derivative but something else. I'm not sure.
21:50:33 <shachaf> Is that a sufficiently multidimensional case for this?
21:51:17 <Cale> Perhaps we should just discuss a function such as f(x,y,z) = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 1
21:52:14 <Cale> So, its derivative at some point (x,y,z) in R is going to be some linear functional R^3 -> R
21:52:28 <shachaf> We can do that, and then talk about the function's zero set and its derivative's zero set.
21:52:40 <Cale> So in order to express what that linear functional is, we'll introduce some new variables, dx, dy and dz
21:53:37 <Cale> With (x,y,z) fixed, it's the linear functional (dx,dy,dz) |--> 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz, right?
21:53:52 <shachaf> Sure.
21:54:59 <Cale> So that, I think, is the easiest way to make some kind of sense of the Leibniz notation -- we're implicitly discussing these functions which are the linear functionals (or whatever) which our total derivative gives us.
21:55:31 <shachaf> With fancy implicit notation, we can "d" both sides and write 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, and therefore dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dz
21:55:48 <shachaf> Er, dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx
21:56:00 <Cale> If you do funny things like iterating it, then all of a sudden, you might introduce "dx" multiple times, when really you should perhaps have picked some new variable name
21:56:18 <Cale> But in the 1D case, it *really* doesn't matter
21:57:49 <shachaf> I see what you mean by "function of x and dx", at least.
21:57:52 <Cale> (particularly when you're dividing through by dx)
21:57:54 <Cale> yeah
21:58:20 <shachaf> But the statement "dy/dx = -x/y - z/y dz/dx" is accurate, isn't it?
21:58:37 <shachaf> And the other five that you can write.
22:01:53 <Cale> yes
22:02:26 <Cale> Assuming that 2x dx + 2y dy + 2z dz = 0, that's a valid conclusion to draw
22:03:28 <shachaf> But what are dx, dy, dz?
22:03:42 <shachaf> What's the second derivative of the 2-sphere?
22:03:45 -!- moonheart08 has joined.
22:03:49 <moonheart08> my god
22:03:51 <Cale> Well, wait
22:03:56 <shachaf> moonheart08: Is otherbot your bot?
22:04:04 <moonheart08> after a few months of being lost, i got SFML + visual studios to work
22:04:11 <moonheart08> shachaf, its a bot i HELP with, wlp1s1 owns it
22:04:20 <moonheart08> i can modify things if i need to
22:04:24 <moonheart08> what do you need? ^_^
22:04:33 <shachaf> Haven't people requested before that it stop showing URL titles?
22:04:38 <shachaf> I think that's a channel requirement.
22:04:40 <moonheart08> is it still doing it?
22:04:45 <moonheart08> i thought i killed that...
22:04:47 <shachaf> Personally I would prefer that it not be in here at all.
22:04:50 <moonheart08> (due to incompat)
22:04:52 <shachaf> But if it is, it shouldn't spam.
22:04:59 <moonheart08> www.google.com
22:05:00 <otherbot> [Google]
22:05:00 <moonheart08> test
22:05:03 <moonheart08> err
22:05:06 <moonheart08> who reenabled it >_<
22:05:14 <shachaf> Also do your testing somewhere else please.
22:05:16 <Cale> Only HackEgo is allowed to spam ;)
22:05:18 <Cale> hahaha
22:05:21 <moonheart08> Cale, lol
22:05:32 <moonheart08> shachaf, killing it again :P someone must've reenabeld it
22:05:34 <shachaf> HackEgo's spam is on-topic.
22:06:07 <shachaf> Well, to be an acceptable fix, you need to provide evidence that it won't accidentally get turned on again in the future.
22:06:08 <moonheart08> huh
22:06:10 <moonheart08> its off....
22:06:14 <moonheart08> its commented out
22:06:19 <moonheart08> wtf is it workign then?
22:06:29 <moonheart08> wlp1s1, iovoid, Bowserinator what did you do >_<
22:06:38 <Bowserinator> ?
22:06:39 <Cale> Maybe the code you are editing is not the code which is running?
22:06:56 <Bowserinator> moonheart08: ?
22:07:03 <moonheart08> it seems not
22:07:06 <moonheart08> ugh
22:07:12 <shachaf> Maybe you could take the bot spam to #esoteric-blah.
22:07:15 <moonheart08> brb, yelling at wlp1s1 for moving it again
22:07:22 <shachaf> Anyway, I didn't want a full page of spam in here.
22:07:35 <moonheart08> -part for now
22:07:39 <moonheart08> -part #esoteric bye
22:07:40 -!- otherbot has left ("bye").
22:08:40 <shachaf> Anyway.
22:09:51 <moonheart08> ok, i am going to kill wlp1s1 >_>
22:11:22 <moonheart08> shachaf, im sorry about the issue, its wlp1s1 fault this time actually :P
22:11:48 <shachaf> Fault is irrelevant.
22:12:30 <moonheart08> true enough
22:12:55 <Bowserinator> what happened
22:13:55 <moonheart08> a jeffool happened :P
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22:46:15 <hppavilion[1]> |ℕ| is sometimes called ω; is there a nice name for |ℝ| and for |2^ℝ|?
22:46:54 <shachaf> I don't follow. What is |?
22:47:31 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: |S| is Cardinality of S.
22:47:36 <hppavilion[1]> Sorry, thought that was the standard notation
22:47:43 <shachaf> But ω is an ordinal.
22:48:04 <hppavilion[1]> ...oh?
22:48:24 <shachaf> The cardinality of the naturals is usually called aleph zero.
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23:03:58 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] ℶ₁ hth
23:03:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:04:47 <shachaf> hizzie
23:05:30 <shachaf> Cale: I've waited, but I still don'tknow the second derivative of the 2-sphere.
23:05:37 <fizzie> @tell hppavilion[1] And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.)
23:05:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:05:38 <shachaf> Maybe I should think instead.
23:05:43 <fizzie> shichaf.
23:05:57 <shachaf> `? shachaf
23:06:00 <shachaf> `? fizzie
23:06:24 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
23:06:25 <HackEgo> Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions.
23:06:27 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you see that photorealistic image synthesis thing?
23:06:29 <shachaf> p. impressive
23:06:39 <fizzie> Probably not, if it's some new thing.
23:06:46 <shachaf> https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.03242
23:07:45 <fizzie> Yes, but why is the #1 'News'-corpora result for that a Daily Mail article. :(
23:09:26 <fizzie> Oh, the Daily Mail article is even about an earlier paper from partially the same folks, about faces.
23:09:46 <fizzie> Oh, not even same folks. I just can't read.
23:10:12 <Cale> shachaf: oh, sorry, I got dragged away by work
23:10:42 <fizzie> V. fancy.
23:13:11 <Cale> shachaf: So, you want the derivative of that function R -> L(R, R^3)?
23:13:18 <Cale> er, sorry
23:13:21 <Cale> that's backward :)
23:13:29 <Cale> R^3 -> L(R^3, R)
23:16:12 <shachaf> Cale: I guess, though I'm not sure I have a definition for that.
23:16:41 <Cale> L(U,V) being the space of linear maps U -> V
23:17:07 <shachaf> Right, but what's a derivative of a function with that codomain?
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23:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Raddish0 * New user account
23:21:23 <Cale> Well, the Fréchet derivative applies, though for computational purposes perhaps using the definition directly is a bit annoying
23:22:09 <Cale> It turns out that you can express the bilinear map which is the second derivative using what's called the Hessian matrix -- it's just the matrix of all possible second partial derivatives
23:22:09 <shachaf> Oh, I see, it applies in this case.
23:22:32 <shachaf> The thing it's taking the limit of is in the domain, not the codomain. So it still makes sense.
23:22:40 <Cale> right
23:22:45 <shachaf> The Hessian matrix has the wrong variance when treated as a matrix.
23:22:52 <Cale> yeah
23:22:55 <shachaf> I think we talked about that before.
23:23:11 <Cale> It's just, more convenient to write it in a square shape than have a really long line
23:23:13 <shachaf> Anyway this doesn't work in the more general R^n->R^m case.
23:23:24 <Cale> Well, none of this notation really does
23:23:32 <shachaf> That's what I was wondering about.
23:23:40 <Cale> But the Fréchet derivative works
23:24:11 <Cale> Well, and you can always split things up into components
23:24:35 <Cale> If you have a function R^m -> R^n it's like having n functions R^m -> R
23:25:08 <Cale> and you can just differentiate those component functions individually
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23:45:34 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:45:34 <lambdabot> CYUL 152342Z 31017G30KT 15SM IC DRSN FEW025 SCT040 M18/M26 A2996 RMK CF1SC3 CF TR PRESRR SLP150
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23:51:23 <\oren\> Countor used the cardinal 𝔠 for the cardinal of the Reals apparently
23:51:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:52:32 <shachaf> He sure knew how to count.
23:52:43 <shachaf> Ah ah ah ah ah!
23:53:25 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: the cardinal of the naturals is called ℵ₀
23:53:38 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: ...oh?
23:53:47 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-proud
23:53:47 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-shout
23:53:53 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:53:57 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-lud
23:53:57 <lambdabot> fizzie said 49m 58s ago: ℶ₁ hth
23:53:57 <lambdabot> fizzie said 48m 19s ago: And ℶ₂ for your second question. (With ℶ₀ = ℵ₀.)
23:53:58 <hppavilion[1]> ;-;
23:54:00 <\oren\> the cardinal of the reals is called ℶ₁ or 𝔠
23:54:07 <boily> he\\oren, hppavellon, lambdabellot.
23:54:36 * boily thwacks shachaf one time. ah ah ah. thwack two times. ah ah ahachaf.
23:56:47 <\oren\> I wonder what ℷ means in math
23:58:09 <hppavilion[1]> It's said that primitive cultures don't have different words for infinities; they just go 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., then everything bigger is "∞"
23:59:09 <shachaf> \oren\: function hth
23:59:30 <shachaf> the gimel calculus. ℷx.ℷy.y x
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