←2016-12-18 2016-12-19 2016-12-20→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:24:29 <boily> `wisdom
00:24:33 <oerjan> bo'loly
00:24:36 <HackEgo> pipe//This is not a pipe.
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00:27:58 <boily> maayoerjang gabii.
00:28:08 <boily> . o O ( bo'loly??? )
00:29:21 <oerjan> 'lo
00:29:48 <boily> oh.
00:30:05 * boily logically thwacks oerjan. 0.63 FP.
00:31:14 <oerjan> porthellos get thwacks now?
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00:34:13 * boily rescinds the porthellic thwack
00:38:09 <boily> how's life on your end of the Great Puddle?
00:41:03 <oerjan> out of synch, as usual
00:41:27 <oerjan> also, traces of christmas.
00:42:46 * oerjan suddenly imagines two flea empires on opposite ends of the Great Poodle
00:48:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Whitespace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50543&oldid=44626 * Serprex * (+85) Unfortunately doesn't work on stable
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01:00:01 <boily> hellochaf. where is the Great Poodle, and is it a Pooch?
01:00:38 <shachaf> Why are you asking me?
01:01:00 <shachaf> I don't know where it is, nor its body weigh.
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01:57:09 <zzo38> The AI in this computer golf seem to hit the ball into the water too much, and seem to consider too much importance to improving the lie, and never risks a flubbed shot (even though, in my experience, it is occasionally useful to do so).
01:58:12 <zzo38> Depending on the course this can result in very good scores or in extremely bad scores.
01:58:57 <zzo38> Also, it seem to sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:01:11 <zzo38> The rule of golf does not allow to use device to figure out the distance of anything, but is it permitted to use a map to figure the distance?
02:01:15 <tswett_> `? tree
02:01:41 <HackEgo> tree? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:01:55 <tswett_> `le/rn tree/You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:01:56 <HackEgo> All le//rn variants now use two slashes in the format.
02:02:05 <tswett_> `le//rn tree//You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
02:02:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'tree': You should sometimes (but not always) ignore trees.
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02:03:17 <zzo38> Hitting the ball with a lower numbered club can make the ball to less likely to go over trees. Sometimes it causes this problem.
02:04:33 <zzo38> I think a problem may be not looking ahead more than one move?
02:06:24 <zzo38> Also, they never want to use the Texas wedge.
02:10:39 <zzo38> This computer golf game it allow you to design your own golf courses, and then you can play it yourself, or automatically by computer, or play vs computer or vs another person. They are good to do such thing but there are also some limitation. Such as, the shape of area with sand and shape of putting green and arrangements of trees are limited to the built-in ones (although you can define your own shape for the grass and water, and you can decide t
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02:12:06 <zzo38> You can also add rocks, cows, hills, and dragons to the golf course. (Dragons are out of bounds.)
02:16:10 <zzo38> Do you know about rules of golf, and if using a map to figure distance is allowed or not?
02:17:24 <izabera> why would it be forbidden
02:17:57 <izabera> the field doesn't change
02:18:06 <zzo38> It says using a device to figure distance is forbidden. I would think that it does not include using a map although I don't know. I also don't know how commonly maps of golf courses that include a scale are even available.
02:19:01 <zzo38> Before playing it is certainly allowed, and it is also certainly allowed to look at weather forecasts before playing at golf. That much is clear.
02:19:17 <izabera> but you can play in the same field more than once in your lifetime
02:19:26 <izabera> at least you can count the steps
02:20:07 <zzo38> Yes, you certainly can. Counting the steps may not work though since you will not be walking in a straight line, especially if there is water in the way, it is difficult to walk on the water.
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02:21:20 <izabera> there's this thing called pythagoras theorem
02:21:34 <zzo38> O, yes.
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02:25:57 <zzo38> People do sometimes use measuring devices playing at golf anyways when they play by themself rather than a tournament, even though it is not allowed. Also, any computer golf game I have seen will display the distance between the ball and the hold.
02:26:02 <zzo38> s/hold/hole/
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02:30:58 <zzo38> I have played a few different computer golf games and none of them seem to actually implement the rules of golf correctly; they get various things wrong. Most have a fixed set of clubs. One I have seen allows you to select which clubs you want, but you have to select the clubs ahead of time and can't start with less than 14 clubs and then add more during the game play. I have seen a few ways they handle replacing the ball after it falls into the wa
02:32:44 <zzo38> One program automatically places the ball. Another one allows you to place the ball anywhere you want. The correct rule is that it can be placed within a half circle of the nearest in-bounds non-water point farther from the hole or you can place it in a line directly away from the hole.
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02:42:00 <zzo38> How are the label names of scrolls made up in Rogue?
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02:49:36 <oerjan> zzo38: maybe ais523 knows.
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04:26:30 <Notebook> Hi!
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04:42:50 <izabera> do telegram bots have to keep polling all the time?
04:44:19 <izabera> ah no webhooks
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06:03:34 <shachaf> Cale: Hale
06:04:03 <shachaf> Maybe you know the answer to a question I asked elsewhere, which is how much the definition "We say that a lattice L is generated by a set X ⊆ L if no proper sublattice of L contains X." generalizes.
06:12:13 <Cale> Well, it generalises to a fair number of other order theoretical things. Filters come to mind.
06:13:29 <Cale> I think that also probably works for matroids
06:14:38 <oerjan> it generalizes to any kind of universal algebra.
06:15:10 <oerjan> well, at least any variety.
06:15:13 <Cale> Ah, quite true
06:17:47 <oerjan> well, it's more than varieties, e.g. fields and hilbert spaces...
06:18:46 <Cale> But yeah, "generated by" often means something of the sort.
06:19:05 <Cale> That's kind of a negative way of stating it, which probably wouldn't work as well in a constructive setting.
06:20:37 <Cale> What you're really interested in is usually not the absence of certain subobjects, but rather the fact that from the stuff in X, you can build everything in L in some fashion which is more dependent on context.
06:21:23 <Cale> However, the negation there gives you a convenient way to imply that without actually referring to the operations or properties you're interested in.
06:21:27 <oerjan> another way of stating it, then, is that the obvious map from the free lattice on the generating set is onto.
06:21:57 <Cale> yeah
06:22:26 <oerjan> this doesn't work the hilbert space case, i think :P
06:22:31 <oerjan> *work for
06:22:55 <oerjan> or fields, even.
06:26:02 <oerjan> but it does work for varieties.
06:26:24 <hppavilion[1]> Complex numbers represent rotations in 2-space, quaternions rotations in 3-space
06:26:37 <hppavilion[1]> Do octonions represent rotations in some n-space?
06:27:14 <hppavilion[1]> s/rotations/transformations/g/
06:27:38 <oerjan> 2, 4 and 8, by obvious multiplication
06:27:40 <hppavilion[1]> s/\/$//
06:28:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...wait, what? But Quaternions are- wait
06:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> Do Quaternions also do rotations in 4-space, and using them for rotations in 3-space is just a special case?
06:28:28 <hppavilion[1]> I had a feeling that was it, but I wasn't sure
06:28:38 <oerjan> probably not.
06:29:14 <oerjan> but the analogy between complexes and quaternions isn't very strong if you can't use the same sizes...
06:30:50 <oerjan> there's something happening in 1,3 and 7 because of them, though - you have crossed products. except they're pretty trivial in 1.
06:31:51 <oerjan> and i don't really know how it works for octonions.
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06:35:46 <Jafet> there is no n-space with a 7-dimensional rotation group, so no
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06:38:25 <Jafet> (well, a more obvious problem is that the octonion product is not associative)
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06:56:16 <izabera> snow snow snow snow
07:04:19 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Actually, that was what I was wondering about
07:05:07 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: I was trying to figure out how that would even work
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08:23:44 <zzo38> Now my Farbfeld Utilities also include HSV (and also HSI; HSL currently does not work)
08:25:59 <zzo38> Another colour space can be "voltage/phase", which can be defined as: Y=H+L U=(H-L)cos(P) V=(H-L)sin(P)
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10:03:23 <b_jonas> Unshelved has made a stupid mistake with reruns: http://www.unshelved.com/2016-12-18 and http://www.unshelved.com/2016-12-07 are reruns of the same strip.
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10:20:16 <int-e> . o O ( maybe the reruns are just completely random? )
10:57:29 <b_jonas> int-e: not likely. they often rerun entire short storylines
10:59:23 <b_jonas> What the heck? So ImageMagick is inconsistent in which coordinate system it uses: the -draw function uses the system where (0,0) is the center of the top left pixel, whereas the -distort and similar functions use the coordinate system where (0.5,0.5) is the center of the top left pixel.
10:59:38 <b_jonas> This hurts. Why don't they use the same coordinate system for every function?
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11:14:37 <Jafet> `? they
11:15:36 <HackEgo> they? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:15:46 <Jafet> `? them
11:16:02 <HackEgo> them? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:21:20 <Jafet> I suspect that imagemagick's numerous functions are made by numerous thems
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11:57:03 <fizzie> Today the train station signs said my train was for "London Winterloo".
11:57:10 <fizzie> (It's actually Waterloo.)
11:57:19 <fizzie> The stopping station names were similarly mangled.
11:57:31 <fizzie> Actually, I guess this is the wrong channel again.
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12:06:36 <int-e> `echo pong
12:07:14 <HackEgo> pong
12:09:05 * int-e idly wonders how many (as a percentage) of the CaC virtual machines are payed for using stolen credit card information.
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14:33:46 <b_jonas> wtf
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16:03:17 <boily> http://imgur.com/a/30gzG ← I think I should restart my machine...
16:03:49 <boily> argh. even imgur won't cooperate...
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16:07:42 <boily> int-ello! CHICKEN!
16:09:58 <int-e> So what did your computer do?
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16:10:54 <boily> All text labels in Ubuntu's UI could only display the letters "a", "b", "é", "'" and "L". Everything else was blank.
16:11:31 <int-e> Abel, hmm, very commutative.
16:11:48 <int-e> There's a central font caching server, I believe.
16:15:08 <moonheart08> boily, smells buggy
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16:16:08 <boily> nah, only a big update that upheaved the very Core of the System. nothing to worry about that a firm restart can't handle.
16:16:17 <boily> also, mhelloony!
16:16:25 <moonheart08> helloily
16:16:36 <int-e> boily: OPTIMISTIC CHICKEN? :P
16:16:52 <moonheart08> boily, what is it with you and chicken jokes?
16:17:16 <int-e> but it's interesting... for a while I had regular font rendering problems in firefox and thunderbird... that subsided...
16:17:53 <int-e> moonheart08: It's FOWL language. It used to be french.
16:19:52 <boily> I didn't see any problems in gnome terminal nor firefox, so I didn't know there was any problem at first.
16:20:02 <boily> moonheart08: chickens are serious business, eh?
16:29:18 <int-e> Tasty too.
16:29:49 <int-e> (Well, that needs spices to work.)
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16:43:10 <b_jonas> "All text labels in Ubuntu's UI could only display the letters "a", "b", "é", "'" and "L". Everything else was blank." => that's a nice one
16:45:25 <b_jonas> I'd had problems where most of the text resulted in garbage after the computer got memory pressure, but I think that was a bug in an older intel video chipset driver.
16:46:56 <myname> wat
16:47:48 <boily> driver glitches are the best! on an old laptop I couldn't run too many things at once unless everything became translucid pink rectangles.
16:48:21 <b_jonas> driver bug could also result in the desktop background getting grabled, but that was easy to fix by resetting the desktop background. for the font issue, I had to restart programs.
16:49:30 <b_jonas> In very ancient times, I also had the mouse cursor being permanently invisible, but that was back in the dark ages when I incorrectly told the win32 video driver that the video card had 2MB of video ram when it really only had 1MB.
16:49:46 <boily> nice one.
16:50:08 <b_jonas> I don't count that as a bug, because I clearly set the config incorrectly.
17:03:57 <\oren\> I once ended up with everything in the same font due to a bug
17:04:22 <\oren\> that is, all text on the system reverted to wht i think was an emergency backup font
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17:08:29 <\oren\> ooh, I found an interesting font!
17:08:31 <\oren\> http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.ca/2009/03/xkcdsucks-is-proud-to-present-humor.html
17:08:46 <\oren\> it's a font based on Randall's handriting
17:10:37 <\oren\> oh my god, the maker of that website is totally insane
17:10:57 <\oren\> he writes a scathing critique of every single xkcd comic
17:11:36 <izabera> they do have some valid points
17:12:11 <izabera> like stuff that could be drawn but randall is lazy so we get characters that talk about shit instead of doing shit
17:13:30 <int-e> "[a] vitriolic and bitter collection of unwarranted nastiness about a silly and harmless comic."
17:13:42 <int-e> well at least they're honest about what they're doing :P
17:13:51 <\oren\> yup XD
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17:17:58 <b_jonas> \oren\: well, most xkcd strips do suck these days, so it's easy to write critics
17:19:05 <b_jonas> as for fonts that try to look like handwriting like that one, they almost always suck because they include only one glyph variant for even common letters, so text rendered with the font looks completely unrealistic.
17:19:26 <b_jonas> you can't have an ugly uneven handwriting but write all instances of "a" and of "e" the same
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17:19:56 <b_jonas> You see that thing a lot in ads that contain heading text with such a font
17:20:16 <b_jonas> it's horrible, and it could be improved easily by a few glyph variants
17:22:41 <\oren\> b_jonas: interesting. I think I saw something once about a metafont font that uses procedural generation to make every letter slightly differenct
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18:03:39 <\oren\> >ooh, I can greentext on irc
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18:13:47 <izabera> plzdont
18:18:13 <int-e> all I see is a silly extra >
18:19:26 <int-e> (color filtering)++
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18:29:56 <boily> fungot: are you green?
18:29:57 <fungot> boily: a normal eggdrop and something very extraordinary. why
18:30:24 <boily> fungot: green eggs, then. eggs are good. they pair well with chicken.
18:30:24 <fungot> boily: whats wrong here?"
18:30:33 <boily> fungot: \oren\ is trying to greentext.
18:30:34 <fungot> boily: bigloo doesnt seem to work. then profile. then if schelog runs under pseudoscheme i can use
18:31:43 <int-e> fungot: you nasty little schemer
18:31:43 <fungot> int-e: you tried it on something else now. everything i did is unlikely to do better than _that_. :d
18:32:07 <int-e> `quote
18:32:12 <int-e> @quote
18:32:12 <lambdabot> jameysharp says: It's a drinking game: insert '$' into your working code and see if it still works.
18:32:13 <HackEgo> 1103) <zzo38> It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up"
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18:38:06 <boily> `quote
18:38:07 <HackEgo> 1131) <boily> topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals.
18:38:44 <int-e> chicken too
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18:39:48 <boily> but not sponges.
18:40:17 <int-e> nor octopi
18:40:24 <int-e> octopodes
18:40:28 <int-e> one of those, I hope.
18:41:46 <int-e> . o O ( hey those are an unholey species )
18:42:12 <boily> i'a i'a chicken fhtagn.
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18:53:27 <izabera> i'd rather kill myself than commit suicide
18:54:36 <\oren\> `quote
18:54:37 <HackEgo> 70) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
18:54:39 <int-e> I'd sooner kill myself than live forever. <-- I believe that sounds better, though it lacks the contradiction.
18:54:57 <\oren\> `quote
18:54:58 <HackEgo> 886) <Bike> I've heard the manga of Das Kapital is actually pretty good.
18:55:14 <int-e> `wisdom
18:55:16 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
18:55:30 <int-e> meh
18:55:39 <int-e> `cwlprits superexponential growth
18:55:43 <HackEgo> tsweẗt
18:56:09 <int-e> tswett: I'm disappointed in you.
19:01:03 <boily> `wisdom
19:01:07 <HackEgo> warrigal//Warrigal is #esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human.
19:01:22 <boily> `? tswett
19:01:26 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins. He's a title under the cruxite in the lathe.
19:01:43 <boily> a dingo with penguins. interesting.
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19:38:22 <\oren\> `quote
19:38:23 <HackEgo> 115) <Sgeo> Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? <ais523> it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on
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19:50:18 <zzo38> What C# stuff is Microsoft-specific?
19:53:23 <zzo38> METAFONT can only output one glyph per slot, so all letter of the same letter will be same way. However, you can change the random number seed and recompile the font to get it differently; another thing that can be done is to make 256 variants of each letter with the same low 8-bits, and then use a postprocessor on the DVI (or just write whatever program that uses the font) to randomize the bit15-bit8 of the glyph codes.
19:54:47 <\oren\> `quote
19:54:47 <HackEgo> 1216) <fungot> [...] we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle [...]
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20:15:29 <\oren\> `mesages-lod
20:15:30 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mesages-lod: not found
20:15:35 <\oren\> @mesages-lod
20:15:35 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6d 17h 29m 10s ago: <\oren\> uh... why is the dutch election on the Ides of March? <-- logically it's a very good day for the senate to be closed hth
20:15:35 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6d 17h 27m 24s ago: never mind, that's the part they're _not_ reelecting, it seems.
20:15:35 <lambdabot> hppavilion[0] said 6d 14h 34s ago: Maybe yꙮu shꙮuld just make ꙮ the default glyph fꙮr 'o' in neꙮletters
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21:31:04 <int-e> `unidecode ꙮ
21:31:32 <int-e> I see see see see see see see.
21:32:42 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, are you not familiar with multiocular O?
21:32:53 <shachaf> What about the limerick I wrote about it?
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21:33:47 <int-e> shachaf: just a font issue and this was quicker than checking the logs. I had my suspiciꙮns.
21:34:10 <int-e> `? limerick
21:34:12 <HackEgo> limerick? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:34:18 <int-e> anyway, I know it.
21:34:26 <shachaf> You should write a limerick too.
21:35:02 <int-e> At least the second half, I may use in my prose / multiocular o's / but my poetry's alphanumeric.
21:35:08 <shachaf> Today I got an email from a person wanting me to work in Ireland.
21:35:51 <int-e> `quote ꙮ
21:35:54 <HackEgo> 1134) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
21:36:09 <int-e> might, not may. tsk.
21:36:20 <shachaf> I think it changed over the years.
21:37:06 <int-e> (and by "font issue" I mean it's displayed as a small box)
21:37:23 <shachaf> That's better than my situation in this terminal.
21:37:35 <shachaf> It's not displayed at all, and it messes up the display of other characters around it.
21:38:24 <int-e> heh, I even wrote a latex macro for the character for the wisdom.pdf
21:39:48 <shachaf> I request more limericks.
21:39:56 <int-e> composed from \circ and \cdot, it was fun.
21:40:34 <int-e> poetry doesn't come naturally to me
21:41:05 <zzo38> The terminal is mix up because Unicode is bad especially for terminal. (For other purposes it is a bit less bad)
21:41:21 <int-e> `? zzo38
21:41:22 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
21:41:27 <shachaf> I think it's because of a bug.
21:41:52 <int-e> zzo38 is an enigma wrapped in a riddle
21:42:29 <zzo38> O, is that what it is? The AmigaMML FAQ (now defunct) says that it isn't.
21:42:43 <shachaf> It's a bug in my terminal, or maybe in tmux or mosh.
21:45:12 <shachaf> German poetry is acceptable.
21:45:38 <int-e> I'm not sure how that makes it any easier.
21:45:59 <shachaf> It would be harder for me.
21:46:08 <shachaf> But maybe easier if I spoke German.
21:46:13 <int-e> Though perhaps there's more I can steal. Wer reitet so spät durch Nacht und Wind? Es ist der Vater, mit seinem Kind.
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21:47:04 <int-e> `quote overth
21:47:05 <HackEgo> 1286) <int-e> I couldn't help thinking that maybe if one considers the ramifications in full detail it will turn out that overthinking is often not helpful and therefore, not something to be proud of.
21:47:12 <int-e> I forgot about that one.
21:50:13 <int-e> `unidecode ꙮ
21:50:21 <int-e> `? ꙮ
21:50:22 <HackEgo> ​ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
21:50:42 <int-e> wow this doesn't even display properly in gitk (too small)
21:51:18 <shachaf> An esoterician named Jane / Invented a language mundane; / It was merely derived, / But when morning arrived / She discovered a brick in her brain.
21:51:34 <int-e> (enlarged version: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ooooooo.png )
21:51:48 <shachaf> That looks like a space invader or something.
21:52:58 <int-e> `? wat
21:53:03 <HackEgo> ​ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው።
21:53:53 <int-e> `unidecode ሚ
21:53:58 <HackEgo> ​[U+121A ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE MI]
21:55:15 <int-e> `cwlprits smell
21:55:20 <HackEgo> oerjän
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21:57:01 <shachaf> `? smell
21:57:04 <HackEgo> Smell is a sense, which is particularly strong in old factory sites.
21:57:09 <int-e> (it has a most terrible pun)
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22:11:11 <olsner> heh
22:12:05 <shachaf> hilsner
22:12:10 <olsner> shachaf: nice limerick btw
22:13:43 <shachaf> olsner: your turn twh
22:14:21 <olsner> I don't limericks, hth
22:14:34 <shachaf> that does not help
22:29:17 <shachaf> time, ever since its debut, / can't make anything out of the blue; / but that's false altogether, / if you're using feather, / the language that can travel through
22:29:58 <int-e> a person without inspiration / may still find some determination / and come up for one time / with a most painful rhyme / just to die of humiliation
22:30:13 <int-e> (R.I.P. me)
22:34:30 <Taneb> There was a chap studying at York / Who was notable for his unusual walk / When queried, he said / "My knee's made of lead" / That was the last time I ever heard him talk
22:40:39 <int-e> `slwd boring//s/.$/, unless it is done to pigs./
22:40:46 <HackEgo> boring//Boring means of little interest, unless it is done to pigs.
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22:49:21 <shachaf> ?
22:49:30 <shachaf> Unless they are done to pigs?
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23:13:52 <fizzie> Spotted today: esolangs.org reference in the 2014/Q4 issue of a Finnish computaur magazine.
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23:20:47 <int-e> shachaf: just a silly pratchett reference
23:22:15 <int-e> @google 'pig-boring'
23:22:18 <lambdabot> http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Pig-Boring
23:22:18 <lambdabot> Title: Pig-Boring - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki
23:25:51 <zzo38> Now I made "ff-moon" program too.
23:26:37 <int-e> is there an image format that supports octarine color channels?
23:26:51 <zzo38> It is similar to -blue-shift command in ImageMagick but is more generalized and anyways it does not actually blue shift anything, so I called it moon instead.
23:27:11 <zzo38> int-e: Not what I know of.
23:27:38 <shachaf> int-e: The boring means of little interest are being done to pigs?
23:29:20 <int-e> shachaf: when done to pigs, boring does not mean of little interest.
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23:29:40 <int-e> anyway, sleep
23:30:00 <int-e> I won't mind if I wake up and find that addendum reverted.
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