←2016-12-29 2016-12-30 2016-12-31→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:01 <LKoen> not to mention extra pieces for the potential extra maharaja
00:02:16 <LKoen> the other possibility would be to use regular chess pieces, with fèves from the epiphany king's cake for the missing pieces
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00:11:01 <int-e> \o/ <-- first slide of the opening ceremony
00:15:52 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Hymn, what are the prime elements <-- the definition of "prime ring" doesn't involve any hth
00:16:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...wait, what?
00:16:27 <hppavilion[1]> ...fuck
00:18:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: afaict in a "prime ring" it's the _ideals_ that work as primes, not the elements.
00:18:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What's the term I'm looking for then??
00:18:54 <hppavilion[1]> ...I guess it probably isn't meaningful, now that I think about it
00:18:59 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, maybe it is
00:19:06 <hppavilion[1]> Hymn, I think so
00:19:48 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_element might be more relevant
00:20:45 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_factorization_domain probably
00:21:38 <hppavilion[1]> A <whatever I want to say> is a ring (S, +, ·) where (1) some subset P of S exists where, forall p in P, the only values in the ring satisfying a·b = p are (a = 1, b = p) and (a = p, b = 1) and (2) Using only · and elements in P, it is possible to uniquely specify every element in S up to ordering.
00:21:47 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ty tmh
00:22:05 <oerjan> the gaussian integers are listed in the examples
00:24:21 <hppavilion[1]> Oh god, do rings form a group or something meta like that?
00:24:57 <oerjan> well they're a category...
00:25:33 <hppavilion[1]> Well yeah
00:25:44 <hppavilion[1]> Are there any things that aren't a category, really?
00:25:53 <oerjan> PROBABLY NOT
00:27:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: If there are, they're in the category of non-categories I'm sure
00:27:12 <oerjan> i doubt rings are a group in a useful sense, inverses seem hard. you can trivially get a monoid though: just take the product.
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00:44:22 <oerjan> <Notebook> You lost me. <-- seriously, that "explanation" wouldn't work for anyone who didn't already know the subject.
00:44:38 <myname> indeed
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01:16:56 <zzo38> It seems that Exim is using "mboxo" format while Heirloom-mailx is using "mboxrd" format. How can I make Exim to also use "mboxrd" format?
01:32:39 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a name for the feature of english dialects where exempli gratia /tɹ/ -> /tʃɹ/?
01:35:30 <zzo38> I have never heard of such a feature
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01:55:37 <boily> `relcome Nithogg
01:56:25 <HackEgo> Nithogg: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:58:50 <tswett> `? monomorphism
01:58:55 <HackEgo> monomorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:59:02 <tswett> `? epimorphism
01:59:04 <HackEgo> epimorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:59:14 <tswett> `learn A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'monomorphism': A monomorphism is just an epimorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:22 <tswett> `learn An epimorphism is just a monomorphism in the opposite category.
01:59:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'epimorphism': An epimorphism is just a monomorphism in the opposite category.
02:00:05 <boily> I know enough category theory that I know that I know nothing about category theory.
02:20:44 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Magnificent
02:22:07 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: Notice the big dark area. Think there's a black hole there? :D
02:22:33 <hppavilion[1]> There are a lot of blue stars there, so maybe not.
02:26:48 <zgrep> I'm trying to find an app to open the psb image, because I don't have photoshop.
02:27:18 <zgrep> I can't convert it, because I don't have enough space on this laptop to convert it to a different format.
02:36:01 <hppavilion[1]> zgrep: GIMP??
02:36:05 <zgrep> Doesn't open them.
02:36:10 <zgrep> Not supported.
02:36:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hymn. Weird.
02:39:54 <zgrep> Ah, there.
02:40:00 <zgrep> I freed some space by deleting things.
02:40:04 <zgrep> Now I can convert to tif.
02:44:23 <boily> you want to fax the pictures?
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02:54:45 <tswett> I've been writing up a description of some rules for some formal systems.
02:54:57 <tswett> So far, all of my formal systems kind of suck.
02:55:50 <tswett> The reason for this is that they don't admit any results.
02:56:21 <tswett> They have rules, but so far, all of the rules are impossible to apply, because they have preconditions that can't be satisfied.
03:16:37 <Zarutian> sounds like loan eligabilty ruleset
03:26:07 <int-e> tswett: you can use coinduction to overcome the bootstrap problem (to some extent, tongue in cheek, please don't kill me)
03:26:24 <tswett> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
03:27:50 <Jafet> `? feather
03:27:55 <HackEgo> feather? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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03:57:56 <tswett> There, I've finally created enough rules that it's possible to derive something.
03:58:57 <tswett> You can now prove such amazing and wonderful theorems as this:
03:59:04 <tswett> ⊢ E = E
04:05:26 <tswett> Here's a more sophisticated thing you can prove.
04:05:41 <tswett> ⊢ g ∘ f = g ∘ f
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04:20:35 <int-e> tswett: do you have full reflexivity for =?
04:24:43 <Jafet> perhaps that is one of the rules that has “preconditions”
04:44:57 <tswett> int-e: the reflexivity rule says that you can derive "⊢ E = E" for any expression E.
04:46:13 <tswett> Now, I want an associativity rule, of course. I want to say that (h ∘ g) ∘ f = h ∘ (g ∘ f).
04:46:44 <tswett> So here's the question. Should I say that that only works in contexts where f, g, and h actually have the appropriate types?
04:47:14 <tswett> I don't think there's any need for that.
04:47:30 <tswett> I don't think there's any harm in saying that one undefined expression is equal to another... is there?
04:47:50 <tswett> I'll have to find out, I guess.
04:50:58 <Jafet> the standard ML standard doesn't think there's any need for that, either
05:13:02 <tswett> The standard ML standard?
05:13:08 <tswett> Is that the one that defines ML standard ML?
05:15:43 <zzo38> Write a program to convert that picture format into farbfeld format if you know how to do, and we can include in my "Farbfeld Utilities" package.
05:16:46 <zzo38> Even if it is not implemented, you can add the file formats to the list http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=File+formats so that we know what need to be added on
05:20:48 <zzo38> One format that hopefully should be implemented is TIFF/IT format, since few existing programs do as far as I know, so then there will be one.
05:44:29 <hppavilion[1]> If you're in the NSA and are a fan of romantically pairing fictional characters, is one such pairing called a clippership?
05:44:47 <zzo38> I don't know
06:00:23 <Jafet> tswett: yes, the Definition of Standard ML defines ML standard ML
06:00:37 <Jafet> it's been revised, but not yet revised revised revised revised revised
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09:01:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jdevine * New user account
09:04:06 <zzo38> I made this screen capture program http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/raw/ff-xcapture.c?name=0cbd0bf256fea6445b4c2bc744f6035d4e528bd2 Is this the proper way to deal with Colormaps and those stuff in X window?
09:08:06 <zzo38> My program is not as fast as xwd though
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09:14:06 <zzo38> Maybe XGetPixel makes it slow?
09:15:15 <zzo38> Or maybe not; I have not tested
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14:48:59 <oerjan> bood afternoily
14:49:18 <boily> bœrjan matin!
14:49:56 * int-e yawns
14:50:40 <int-e> no xkcd yet?
14:50:57 <int-e> this is disturbing my morning routine :P
14:51:03 * oerjan just got to freefall
14:51:37 <oerjan> int-e: my daily routine assumes xkcd needs to be checked twice hth
14:52:16 <int-e> hmm, wednesday's freefall was good :)
14:52:25 <oerjan> except today my sleeping rhythm was such that i overslept the first, so...
14:52:35 <oerjan> so's today's.
14:52:52 <int-e> yeah but you know that I'll see it on monday
14:53:22 <oerjan> ...you have a routine that involves checking only _some_ of your webcomics, even if they've already updated?
14:53:23 <int-e> (stupid webcomic not letting me bookmark the latest comic... it's really good otherwise)
14:53:55 * int-e is distracted, actually
14:54:27 <int-e> (Playing 33c3-8014-eng-deu-Untrusting_the_CPU_webm-hd.webm)
14:54:57 <boily> still no xkcd? :/
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14:55:46 <int-e> oerjan: it's funny, but I delay most of my web comic reading on working days until afternoon or evening.
14:55:58 <int-e> though I'm not working today
14:56:07 <int-e> but xkcd I usually check in the morning.
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14:56:26 <oerjan> despite it rarely updating then.
14:57:30 <int-e> I should treat it as a TTS comic.
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14:58:42 <oerjan> TTS?
14:58:49 <int-e> map succ MWF
14:59:08 <oerjan> i suppose my ocpd just works in the opposite direction: i load the last comic, but then obsessively also loads the previous to check i haven't skipped one.
14:59:37 <oerjan> *-s
15:00:12 <int-e> Especially for the story oriented comics I really like starting with the latest comic that I've already read.
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15:08:08 <oerjan> @tell tswett <tswett> I don't think there's any harm in saying that one undefined expression is equal to another... is there? <-- the question is whether you can prove something false about defined stuff by going through undefined intermediates. e.g. if you allow 0/0 = a because the left side is undefined...
15:08:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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15:11:43 <oerjan> @tell tswett what's more, because your mind is predisposed to ignore options that are not supposed to be used, it's easy to miss cases when convincing yourself your system is consistent in general.
15:11:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:15:21 <boily> `wisdom
15:15:39 <boily> ...
15:15:42 <HackEgo> atrocity//Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire.
15:15:46 * oerjan is slightly confused by all the people who register on the wiki without making edits, then later turn out not to be spammers.
15:16:32 <oerjan> maybe they're doing it for the skins.
15:19:54 <boily> maybe it's all the people who *could* be writing a BF derivative, but actively aren't.
15:20:08 <oerjan> thausible.
15:20:53 <int-e> that's a great idea for a New Year's resolution...
15:21:06 <int-e> ...to not make a BF derivative.
15:22:27 <oerjan> except that most new year's resolutions fail, i hear.
15:23:00 * boily knocks on wood
15:23:35 <boily> . o O ( how many layers of paint can there be for knocking on wood to remain effective? )
15:23:41 <oerjan> boily: that's unfair, you're privileged with a mapole.
15:24:27 <oerjan> . o o ( is the paint plant-based? )
15:24:34 <int-e> boily: it appears to depend on the thickness of the layers
15:27:18 <int-e> But I guess with layers as thick as mattresses, the effect of knocking will be reduced but not completely vanish at 20 layers, extrapolating from the effect of peas.
15:49:34 <izabera> all lives matter
15:49:44 <izabera> until you multiply them by the speed of light squared
15:49:46 <izabera> then all lives energy
15:50:04 <boily> izabellora.
15:50:12 * boily thwacks izabera. 0.46 FP.
15:53:57 <Taneb> `dc -p [test]p
15:54:02 <HackEgo> dc: invalid option -- 'p' \ Usage: dc [OPTION] [file ...] \ -e, --expression=EXPR evaluate expression \ -f, --file=FILE evaluate contents of file \ -h, --help display this help and exit \ -V, --version output version information and exit \ \ Email bug reports to: bug-dc@gnu.org .
15:54:06 <Taneb> `dc -e [test]p
15:54:07 <HackEgo> test
15:54:21 <Taneb> `dc -p "[d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp"
15:54:22 <HackEgo> dc: invalid option -- 'p' \ Usage: dc [OPTION] [file ...] \ -e, --expression=EXPR evaluate expression \ -f, --file=FILE evaluate contents of file \ -h, --help display this help and exit \ -V, --version output version information and exit \ \ Email bug reports to: bug-dc@gnu.org .
15:54:25 <Taneb> `dc -e "[d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp"
15:54:26 <HackEgo> dc: dc: '"' (042) unimplemented \ 3628800 \ '"' (042) unimplemented
15:54:35 <Taneb> `dc -e [d0!=g]sf[dlr*sr1-lfx]sg1sr10lfxlrp
15:54:35 <HackEgo> 3628800
15:54:42 <Taneb> I wrote a factorial program!
15:54:51 <Taneb> Also why does my brain want to use the -p flag which does not exist
15:56:01 <izabera> boily: ;-;
15:56:07 <oerjan> the good news is it's a pbrain.
15:56:17 <oerjan> the bad news is it's also a bf derivative.
15:56:32 <izabera> oerjan: why is pbrain good news?
15:56:41 <Taneb> izabera, string theory
15:56:55 <izabera> what
15:57:06 <oerjan> Taneb: ok, the not quite so bad news.
15:57:07 <izabera> i may be missing something
15:57:14 <oerjan> er, *izabera
15:57:45 <oerjan> Taneb may be mispling something.
15:57:51 * boily gives some maple ice cream to izabera
15:58:03 <izabera> nice, meow :3
15:58:13 <Taneb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane
16:10:53 <boily> izabera: that thing is dangerous → https://az836796.vo.msecnd.net/media/image/product/fr/medium/0005926302014.jpg
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16:34:57 * FireFly pets izabera
16:35:06 <izabera> meow
16:35:33 <izabera> gimme milk
16:38:21 * zgrep places a pitcher of milk in-front of izabera
16:38:31 <izabera> thank you :3
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17:16:03 <boily> `wisdom
17:16:07 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air aboe the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:16:35 <boily> `slwd hfs//s/aboe/above/
17:16:43 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive ith vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:16:59 <boily> `slwd hfs//s/\bith/with/
17:17:02 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottemless pits mark the surface.
17:17:07 <boily> fungot: what's an hfs?
17:17:07 <fungot> boily: can you receive those?
17:17:10 <rdococ> You have discovered a great banana.
17:17:13 <boily> fungot: yes, in bold read.
17:17:13 <fungot> boily: two of a kind of box were you building just the microcode?
17:17:33 <boily> fungot: no, vendors build microcode.
17:17:34 <fungot> boily: elucidation-why is for people with some knowledge of which package depends on these structures and uses their bindings to form its lexical environment.
17:17:55 <zgrep> rdococ: I thought it was merely average.
17:17:58 <boily> rdococ: is it ripe? can you carve a canoe out of it? whence it came from? is the tree great?
17:18:25 <rdococ> Yes to all four questions.
17:19:49 * rdococ waits for a response.
17:20:10 * boily knocks on the banana tree.
17:20:28 <rdococ> The tree asks "Who's there?"
17:20:55 <boily> I'm a sane man.
17:21:16 <zgrep> The squirrel replies "Perhaps.".
17:21:30 <oerjan> `slwd hfs//s/bottem/bottom/
17:21:34 <HackEgo> hfs//You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface.
17:22:53 <rdococ> s/mark/marc
17:23:10 <zgrep> `? hfs
17:23:13 <HackEgo> You have discovered an eerie cavern. The air above the dark stone floor is alive with vortices of purple light and dark, boiling clouds. Seemingly bottomless pits mark the surface.
17:23:16 <zgrep> I see.
17:23:26 <zgrep> `? `? hfs
17:23:27 <HackEgo> ​`? hfs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:24:24 <rdococ> `? `?
17:24:26 <HackEgo> ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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17:27:14 <zgrep> `? ​`? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `??????????????????????????????????
17:27:16 <HackEgo> ​​`? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `? `??????????????????????????????????? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:27:44 <Zarutian> `? bills?
17:27:45 <HackEgo> bills?? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:27:48 <rdococ> `? bills
17:27:49 <HackEgo> bills? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:27:51 <zgrep> Oh, I see.
17:27:59 <boily> `? ?
17:28:01 <HackEgo> ​? is wisdom
17:28:03 <rdococ> `? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:28:04 <zgrep> `? ¿
17:28:04 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:28:07 <HackEgo> ​¿? ¿? ¿? ¿? ¿?
17:28:12 <zgrep> `¿
17:28:13 <HackEgo> ​¯/)o_​°(\¯ ?
17:28:16 <zgrep> Heh.
17:28:20 <rdococ> lol
17:28:24 <boily> ha ha! didn't know about that one.
17:28:28 * zgrep . o O ( If ? is wisdow, is ¿ tomfoolery? )
17:28:41 <boily> `¿ something
17:28:42 <zgrep> `¿ ¿
17:28:42 <HackEgo> ​¯/)o_​°(\¯ ?gnihtemos
17:28:44 <HackEgo> ​?¿ ?¿ ?¿ ?¿ ?¿
17:28:50 <zgrep> `¿ cat
17:28:51 <HackEgo> ​.lagelli eb dluohs tub ,looc era staC
17:28:59 <boily> oh.
17:29:07 <oerjan> `?? tomfoolery
17:29:10 <HackEgo> tomfoolery is wisdom
17:29:14 <zgrep> `cat bin/¿
17:29:14 <HackEgo> ​? "\$@" | rev | tac
17:29:31 <zgrep> `?? c++
17:29:32 <HackEgo> C++ is an attempt to improve upon C. The only thing it actually improved was memory management, and it made everything else worse.
17:29:46 <zgrep> `?? random number
17:29:47 <HackEgo> 14779
17:29:50 <zgrep> Thanks.
17:29:54 <oerjan> yw.
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17:30:32 <zgrep> `? oerjan
17:30:33 <HackEgo> Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
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17:33:42 <zgrep> `?? HackEgo
17:33:42 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
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17:43:49 <rdococ> ???
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17:59:01 <Zarutian> `? random number
17:59:03 <HackEgo> random number? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:59:10 <Zarutian> `?? random number
17:59:11 <HackEgo> 21716
17:59:17 <rdococ> `?? 21716
17:59:18 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
17:59:31 <izabera> `?? random string
17:59:32 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
17:59:57 <izabera> `` paste 'bin/??'
18:00:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F%3F
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18:32:19 * boily got his ass served by a Yeti...
18:33:05 <boily> just lost a game of One Deck Dungeon. I got curbstomped into the floor as thin as a very thin pancake.
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19:17:56 <zzo38> How does that game work?
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20:05:17 <zzo38> XGetPixel does not make it slow, it seems.
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21:03:28 <quintopia> helloily? what is a one deck dungeon?
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21:14:42 <Zarutian> quintopia: a dungeon that has only one sun deck ;-)
21:15:18 <quintopia> oh. well thats still more than the usual zero sun decks.
21:15:37 <alercah> quintopia: one deck dungeon is a roguelike card game
21:17:49 <quintopia> huh
21:17:59 <quintopia> one player?
21:30:30 <alercah> or two
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23:21:08 <wob_jonas> I'm reading the rules of the post. It says that since my package is 0.40 m long, I can't post it as a mail domestically, only as a package, but I can post it as a mail abroad. That seems strange at first, until you realize that international mail is so expensive that it costs significantly more than a domestic package, unless it's impossibly ligh
23:21:08 <wob_jonas> t for that size.
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23:33:24 <wob_jonas> At least they do have very specific written rules for everything, if you look enough at their huge mazelike website.
23:34:28 * oerjan wobbles jonas a bit
23:44:05 <wob_jonas> wobble
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23:48:43 <FireFly> sounds a lot like our postal service, too
23:48:56 <FireFly> it's also pretty expensive..
23:54:09 <oerjan> <boily> just lost a game of One Deck Dungeon. I got curbstomped into the floor as thin as a very thin pancake. <-- sounds like a crêpy experience.
23:55:04 <oerjan> since when does boily idle
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