00:18:30 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:23:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:49:59 -!- boily has joined. 00:50:03 `wisdom 00:50:17 tea//Tea is concentrated fuel made by distilling occult herbs in a silver alambic. Americans attempted to reduce its potency by dumping some in the Ocean. 00:55:05 helloily 00:55:22 hellørjan. 01:01:26 -!- tromp has joined. 01:04:21 Is Eclipse really still the "leading Java IDE"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tools_for_static_code_analysis#Java says so. 01:05:02 I guess Google could've answered that for me. https://zeroturnaround.com/rebellabs/java-tools-and-technologies-landscape-2016/ reportrs 46% IntelliJ, 41% Eclipse, 10% NetBeans and 3% Other. 01:06:00 I like Eclipse. very powerful! 01:06:11 IntelliJ is hipsterer, but its interface confuses me... 01:07:37 How easy would it be to learn the Java Bytecode and write it by hand? 01:09:14 fizziello, DHellodshot. 01:09:23 probably about the same as writing assembly? 01:10:19 I expect easier, given how well Java decompilers wok. 01:10:21 r 01:10:49 hmm 01:10:57 * DHeadshot can do some assembly... 01:11:08 I would have said I expected harder, purely because java bytecode doesn't have mnemonics 01:11:24 I guess it would be fairly trivial to write some kind of "bytecode assembler" however 01:12:13 Is the bytecode documented somewhere? 01:12:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_bytecode_instruction_listings 01:14:11 (I don't even really know what sort of architecture and processor model the JVM uses...) 01:21:44 A stacky one. 01:22:38 The spec has a resonably okay instruction listing as well, https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se8/html/index.html 01:22:47 (Chapter 6.) 01:25:31 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:00 I think I entertained the thought of compiling something else stack-based (Befunge? Forth?) to JVM bytecode and reusing the "native" stack for that language's stack, but it turned out the JVM bytecode verifier is super-picky about the stack. 01:26:48 bonjouroily 01:27:00 is there a crm meetup on the 12th of february? 01:28:45 (In particular, it wants to know the stack depths statically at all times, and if you have control flow, the stack depth at point X must be the same for every way you can reach X.) 01:31:00 albonsoircah. let me check... 01:31:44 yes, there is one. 01:35:19 yay! 01:35:37 please communicate to me details 01:35:47 through your preferred method 01:36:43 * oerjan gets an urge to do some canadian stalking 01:36:46 we usually get briefed on the location either Tuesday or Wednesday, same week as the meet. I will spam you with the details then. 01:38:08 * oerjan pointedly copies and pastes the result link from google instead of clicking it 01:38:09 I think that a Java assembler does exist. 01:38:19 So, you can write it in Java assembly language if you want to 01:38:49 is it this thing http://www.crm.umontreal.ca/en/ 01:40:32 * oerjan is slightly doubtful 01:41:10 no, it's partly https://riichimontreal.org/ and http://riichi.ca/site/ 01:41:18 aha 01:43:52 -!- tromp has joined. 01:49:16 `wisdom 01:49:20 ant//Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways. 01:49:20 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 01:49:55 boily: thank yo 01:49:56 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:50:03 is there a reference in that wisdom 01:50:23 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:50:53 -!- Marcela_- has left. 01:51:34 oerjan: it confuses me... 01:51:39 `cwlprits ant 01:51:42 zzo38: Wikipedia suggests something called "Lilac" 01:51:49 int-̈e int-̈e int-̈e 01:52:06 int-e: int-ello. ants??? 01:52:22 * oerjan goes to check for german puns 01:53:16 hm ant is Ameise 01:54:30 that didn't help. 01:55:54 Broiling is something you do with a broiler; a broiler is something you use for broiling. <-- you'd think a proper dictionary would have some kind of "use only these words for definitions" rule... 01:56:07 possibly staged 01:56:44 so that everything bottomed out at the 1000 most common words or something. 01:59:39 broiling is like boiling, but more broily. 02:00:01 will broily also be at the mahjong meetup? 02:00:40 `learn broily is like boily, but more broiling. 02:00:45 Learned 'broily': broily is like boily, but more broiling. 02:01:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:01:35 alercah: I will. from that I surmise that you will too ^^ 02:03:16 boily: no I was just asking for fun 02:04:12 flblblblbl :P 02:04:50 03:04 fun [~fun@gethostbyname.org] 02:05:06 hidden channels, alas 02:05:26 'inght all... 02:05:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ASSESMENT CHICKEN). 02:11:45 -!- augur has joined. 02:12:36 @tell boily i assess that chicken to be misspelled 02:12:36 Consider it noted. 02:14:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:19:52 -!- Cale has joined. 02:29:38 -!- Marcela_- has joined. 02:31:14 -!- Marcela_- has left. 02:31:55 Wiktionary includes "assesment" and says it is a misspelling. 02:32:22 (Why is there even an entry for a misspelled word?) 02:34:56 zzo38: their policy is to have entries for anything sufficiently attested in use 02:35:22 O, OK 03:02:02 Do medieval shields have bands of lead in them? Someone told me that they do, but I don't know much about it? 03:14:47 -!- Akaibu has joined. 03:34:48 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:00 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:38:45 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 03:40:09 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 03:40:29 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 04:03:49 I invented (but not yet finalized; the GM needs to do that, possibly with my help) a few new spells for GURPS, such as "Altered Vision" and "Vampire Transfer" spells, and also the ideas of "Seek Fire" and "Seek Wind" spells (to go with "Seek Water" and "Seek Earth"). 04:04:54 Do you like any of this? 04:10:36 zzo38: sounds neat 04:12:27 -!- Cale has joined. 04:18:02 "Altered Vision" spell allow you to temporarily change the frequency band of the target's vision. 04:33:03 oerjan: I think that you do not need some kind of "use only these words for definitions" rule as an absolute rule, but it should probably be a soft rule perhaps, and the example you gave should probably be OK to use that definition for one of the words but not the other; probably both words are on the same page anyways and you can easily find it, so if you look up one of them and you do not know what it means you can easily find the other one which 04:34:25 zzo38: what you want is to avoid cycles not involving any of the basic words - a list of allowed words is just the simplest way to ensure that. 04:35:00 oerjan: Yes. That is good. 04:35:21 -!- tromp has joined. 04:39:42 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:39:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:40:02 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 04:41:32 some shields had iron frames, but I've never heard of shields with heavy metal bands 06:14:19 Neither have I, but the GM of this GURPS game seems to think that they do (with the exception of "light shields"); if he is wrong then I can notify him (he can refuse to believe me if he wishes, or even define some NPCs that have shields with lead bands, but I should notify him anyways). 06:19:08 I looked on Wikipedia and he does seem to be wrong; I see nothing about including lead in shields. 06:20:28 Good god, why would you include lead in shields, even as part of an alloy? 06:20:47 For that matter, why would you want a shield to be heavier? 06:20:53 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:26:44 He said to absorb the damage, but that does not seem quite right to me. 06:32:24 How much heavier would they be though if they did have lead bands thick enough to not just count as being coated with lead? 06:35:46 -!- tromp has joined. 06:39:00 Someone who wishes to fight characters of the same species of my character, by the use of shield bashes, who knows of that vulnerability, may wish to add lead bands if the weight and/or cost would not be a problem. 06:39:52 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:44:30 pikhq: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html 06:55:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:55:39 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:57:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:21:03 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 07:36:37 -!- tromp has joined. 07:40:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:54:13 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:54:48 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:14:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:14:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 08:14:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:37:08 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 09:23:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:37:33 -!- tromp has joined. 09:41:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:44:11 -!- augur has joined. 09:49:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:01:57 heh r/physics has a "Motl warning" flair 10:02:22 /tag 10:05:42 <\oren\> "Motl"? 10:07:13 Luboš Motl 10:07:35 <\oren\> http://motls.blogspot.ca/ <- this guy? 10:07:39 <\oren\> i see 10:07:45 yep 10:08:34 a physicist so incapable of being polite that he got sacked 10:09:39 <\oren\> and apparently a trump supporter too 10:09:57 ah yes. 10:10:16 but he was impolite way before trump 10:14:29 <\oren\> I see. 10:15:10 <\oren\> I wonder if my dad ever met him 10:15:21 <\oren\> probably not. 10:18:44 -!- LKoen has joined. 10:27:22 <\oren\> my dad once met stanislaw ulam 10:27:35 <\oren\> apparently a nice guy 10:28:10 <\oren\> despite inventing genocidal weapons 10:39:21 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:43:30 @tell boily ants --> Langton 10:43:30 Consider it noted. 10:43:51 -!- myname has joined. 10:49:43 <\oren\> I'm adding more characters to my font 10:49:51 <\oren\> what should I add today? 10:54:48 a dirty blonde toupet? 10:57:03 <\oren\> I'm not going to do emojis since OS's are moving toward handling them specially 10:58:40 I was thinking of a private use character anyway 10:58:43 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 10:58:55 <\oren\> which is the only sane way to handle all the shit that the consortium is pushing 10:59:35 (and I don't have any plans of actually using your font, so there are plenty of reasons to ignore me anyway) 11:01:58 of course 🐜 exists... 11:02:42 <\oren\> `unicode 🐜 11:03:05 U+1F41C ANT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 9c UTF-16BE: d83ddc1c Decimal: 🐜 \ 🐜 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 11:03:47 http://emojipedia.org/ant/ ... emojipedia, *of course* that exists. 11:04:36 <\oren\> ...which is, again, the only sane way to handle all the shit that the consortium is pushing 11:04:40 `thanks U+1F41C 11:04:43 Thanks, U+1F41C. ThU+1F41C. 11:05:43 `thanks 🐜s 11:05:45 Thanks, 🐜s. Ts. 11:06:04 HackEgo: ITYM "Tsk". 11:07:02 <\oren\> they are like we need male and female emojis of doctors and shit but we can;t have a subscript N noooo 11:08:42 <\oren\> 𝔄𝔅𝔆𝔇𝔈𝔉𝔊 11:08:43 <\oren\> 𝔋𝔌𝔍𝔎𝔏𝔐𝔑𝔒𝔓𝔔𝔕𝔖𝔗𝔘𝔙𝔚𝔛𝔜𝔝𝔞𝔟𝔠𝔡𝔢𝔣𝔤𝔥𝔦𝔧𝔨𝔩𝔪𝔫𝔬𝔭𝔮𝔯𝔰𝔱𝔲𝔳𝔴𝔵𝔶𝔷 11:08:59 <\oren\> all exist but fuck subscripts and superscirpts fuck me 11:09:09 Add a subscript N anyways if you want to 11:09:29 . o O ( 2034: researchers invent telepathy to avoid having to remember all the damn emojis ) 11:09:35 `unidecode 𝔠𝔡𝔢 11:09:47 ​[U+1D520 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL C] [U+1D521 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL D] [U+1D522 MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR SMALL E] 11:09:55 oh, those... 11:10:13 \oren\: um, excuse me but in what sense are OSes handling emojis specially? I thought text engines like pango have had methods to render full-color fonts for ages, not because of emojis, but because of fancy full-color header fonts (as opposed to grayscale) and to be able to render formatted text. 11:10:34 how are emoji characters any different from that really? 11:10:35 I think I've complained about all those math letters before. 11:10:36 \oren\: The plural of "emoji" is "emoji" dammit 11:10:38 <\oren\> wob_jonas: microsoft now handles it with a special vector grahic generator 11:10:53 You know, having a separate font module for emoji actually makes sense 11:10:54 hppavilion1: no need to get all emojional about it. 11:10:59 ... 11:11:09 * hppavilion1 searches for a thwacker 11:11:16 * oerjan lends him one 11:11:23 * hppavilion1 thwacks int-e 11:11:26 * int-e puts hppavilion1 back on ignore 11:11:36 damn, too slow. 11:12:18 oh, English irregular plural fight! now go on and discuss the plural of platypus too! 11:12:22 * wob_jonas gets the popcorn 11:12:57 I'd like to contest the notion that "emoji" is an English word. 11:13:40 platypical 11:14:02 Smileys, emoticons, emojis... what's next? 11:14:25 <\oren\> look if the japanese can steal our words and use them wrong like ファイト then screw it 11:14:31 Ems, because they're important enough to justify a single syllable word? 11:14:53 `unidecode ファイト 11:14:54 ​[U+30D5 KATAKANA LETTER HU] [U+30A1 KATAKANA LETTER SMALL A] [U+30A4 KATAKANA LETTER I] [U+30C8 KATAKANA LETTER TO] 11:15:01 int-e: obviously you need to shorten it down to a single special character hth 11:15:06 \oren\: I need a subscript of family of 4- two male parents, one daughter, one son; left father is Fitz-Patrick 1 or 2, right father is fitz-patrick 6, daughter is fitz-patrick 3, son is fitz-patrick 5 with simultaneous superscript female doctor with her fitz-patrick 6 attorney wife 11:15:07 int-e: my take is that as phase 1 we should use regular plurals for everything in English, except for "man" and words obviously suffixed with it like "fireman" 11:15:09 \oren\: tyvm 11:15:21 \oren\: Oh, and they all need to be blackboard bold 11:15:24 and as phase 2 we should use regular plurals for everything 11:16:01 `unicode EMOJI 11:16:02 U+1F3FB EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-1-2 \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f bb UTF-16BE: d83cdffb Decimal: 🏻 \ 🏻 \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F3FC EMOJI MODIFIER FITZPATRICK TYPE-3 \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8f bc UTF-16BE: d83cdffc Decimal: 🏼 \ 🏼 \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 11:16:04 but as of yet we're weak so I'm willing to compromise in co-authored text if the co-author is an obviously higher ranked mathematician and wants to write "indices" 11:16:15 \oren\: what's that, "height"? 11:16:21 <\oren\> "FAITO", from english fight 11:16:33 hmm, F. 11:16:49 <\oren\> means "go, my team" when cheering for a team sport 11:17:00 <\oren\> makes no fucking sense 11:17:24 language often doesn't make any sense, yes 11:17:25 \oren\: But what if I want to cheer on the team I don't like? 11:17:34 sure does... you just transfer it from fighting sports like boxing to other sports. 11:18:04 anyway 11:19:48 hpp: we say "boo" for that 11:20:43 how does she set bombs so quickly in succession? 11:21:26 she? 11:21:50 still some "games done quick" competition? 11:22:16 Make a non-Unicode font. That is how to handle it by don't handle it. 11:22:30 int-e: yes, I'm watching SNES Super Metroid 100% items from AGDQ 2017 11:23:07 "she" refers to Samus, who laid a lot of bombs to dig some tunnel from explodable blocks plus also killed some enemy with a bomb between 11:23:15 wob_jonas: Because you have a lot of fire. 11:23:17 my brain registers "how does she set bombs so quickly in succession?" as ungrammatical but cannot explain precisely why. 11:23:57 aspect or word order, or something 11:25:05 hmm, sounds fine to me 11:25:32 possibly just stilted 11:25:35 next time, they should rig the stream to show the amounts for the save and kill competition in real time, continuously throughout the Super Metroid run 11:25:55 what would you say instead? is the problem with "set"? 11:27:14 Seems like a perfectly fine sentence to me. I might insert a "the" before "bombs" but it's not really required. 11:27:28 (just a sign of being german, I guess) 11:27:36 <\oren\> sounds fine to me 11:29:38 NOOOOOOOOO 11:29:57 * oerjan calls lobotomy hotline 11:30:51 int-e: adding "the" sounds strange to me 11:30:58 <\oren\> アアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアアア 11:31:16 wob_jonas: it does affect the meaning :) 11:31:25 I could understand using different verbs, like "lay bombs" or whatever, or "can" instead of "does" 11:31:43 "can" sounds better 11:32:18 yeah, English overuses "can" a lot, even in places where it doesn't make sense. When I don't, that's obviously a sign that I'm not native English. 11:33:34 . o O ( How do you do? ... How can you do? ... *runs* ) 11:33:51 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:35:18 how can you run 11:35:36 fungot: the bomb, dmitri 11:35:36 Jafet: what's +o?) yes... :p) i was 11:35:51 <\oren\> somebody set us up the bomb 11:36:27 <\oren\> HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN 11:37:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 11:37:40 actually, the zero wing writer refrained from splitting that infinitive 11:37:54 err 11:38:03 s/infinitive/compound/ 11:38:10 phrasal verb 11:38:34 -!- tromp has joined. 11:39:01 <\oren\> oh right 11:39:15 <\oren\> somebody set up us the bomb 11:39:25 <\oren\> which sounds even worse 11:41:04 <\oren\> 機関士:何者かによって、爆発物が仕掛けられたようです。 11:42:02 but I said "set", not "set up". very much not the same. 11:42:23 <\oren\> true 11:42:35 <\oren\> what you said was fine 11:42:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:42:45 and yet i was upset 11:43:09 * oerjan may be slightly tired 11:43:13 <\oren\> would the phrase not work in norwegian 11:43:23 which one 11:43:47 <\oren\> "how does she set bombs so quickly in succession" 11:44:02 well norwegian doesn't use the "does" construction... 11:44:42 <\oren\> would it end up being "sets" then? 11:44:55 we also don't inflect verbs for person :) 11:45:02 <\oren\> thank god 11:45:12 although i guess we do distinguish infinitive from present 11:45:47 not always in my dialect though 11:45:52 oerjan: somehow that reference to a hotline made me think of http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1993/04/30 11:45:53 and the freeze beam even freezes platforms 11:46:30 ( http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1992/10/26 is related) 11:46:30 (input):1:8: error: unexpected 11:46:30 Operator without known fixity: 11:46:30 ://, expected: space 11:46:30 http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/1992/10/26 is related) 11:46:30 ^ 11:47:08 idris-bot: can you ignore me, please? :-P 11:47:13 what's wrong with inflecting verbs for person? it's a good thing, it lets you omit the subject from a lot of sentences. a lot of languages do it here in Europe. 11:48:01 it only sucks when the conjugation ends up being horribly irregular 11:48:13 <\oren\> wob_jonas: which is most of the time 11:48:20 yeah, that happens in most languages 11:48:21 sadly 11:48:33 <\oren\> and always with the most common verb 11:48:38 I hear it doesn't in Japanese 11:48:46 <\oren\> wob_jonas: correct 11:49:01 <\oren\> but japanese doesn't inflect for person 11:49:07 \oren\: if it's only with the most common verbs, that's not a problem. if it's with the two hundred most common verbs, like in French, that's a problem. 11:50:05 but Hungarian is even worse, you can't guess the most correct declination and conjugation forms even for rare words, so much that often different speakers don't agree what the correct declined form is of rarer words 11:50:48 at least in French all rare words are supposed to be, uh, "regular", as in, fall in one of like a dozen regular conjugations depending on its ending, unless it's an obviously prefixed form of some verb 11:51:03 <\oren\> japanese instead has irregular politeness forms like itadaku and gozaru 11:51:29 and English too only has like a few hundred irregular verbs, so once you learn about even the rare irregular ones, you're done 11:51:29 <\oren\> not too many though 11:52:53 as a result, speakers *expect* rare English verbs to be regular, so if a rare verb like "heave" has irregular conjugated forms, then it also has the regular ones as alternatives 11:53:13 ("heave". seriously. who invents words like that?) 11:53:34 <\oren\> heave, hove? 11:53:43 <\oren\> is my best guess... 11:53:59 <\oren\> based on weave wove anyway 11:56:00 <\oren\> the worst ones are the ones where everything past the lest letter is replaced with aught 11:56:19 <\oren\> s/lest/first 11:56:27 \oren\: apparently the irregular form might be more frequent in the particular nautical meaning, or something. 11:57:26 hove do you do 11:57:28 <\oren\> teach taught, buy bought, catch caught, fight fought, 11:57:59 <\oren\> and it's even spelled differently in half 11:58:09 \oren\: and think 11:58:17 <\oren\> right 11:58:25 stink stought 11:58:37 blink blought 11:58:51 try trought 11:59:03 and there's the horrible adjective "wrought" which isn't even the participle for any extant verb. no, not even of "wring". 11:59:03 <\oren\> draft draught 11:59:21 \oren\: that would be draw draught, right? 11:59:28 draft is just an alternate spelling for draught 11:59:29 wrong wrought 11:59:31 regional or something 11:59:40 <\oren\> yeah I think so 12:00:02 ping pought 12:00:07 stink and blink should obviously follow the pattern of the more common drink 12:00:32 <\oren\> like japanese has irregualr stuff but at least after the war they fixed their spelling system 12:00:33 * oerjan whistles innocently 12:00:40 anyway, IMO the worst are the ones where the conjugation causes collisions. lie -> lay anyone? 12:01:38 bring brang brung 12:02:00 <\oren\> oerjan: that's actually a fairly common usage in Toronto 12:02:10 oerjan: what brought that on? 12:02:59 I stlil don't remember how that "lie" thing works. It has like two different random conjugations depending on the meaning 12:03:01 . o O ( I guess "sing sought sought" is next... ) 12:03:06 but what are those conjugations?\ 12:03:17 <\oren\> seek, sought 12:03:23 \oren\: I *know* 12:03:32 peek pook pought 12:03:38 there were some other colliding ones too, but rarer so I don't remember 12:03:52 oerjan: isn't that peek poke system? 12:04:27 system? i hardly knew 'em 12:04:35 or maybe peek poke varptr defusr system in more modern variants 12:04:50 <\oren\> lead led lead 12:05:01 <\oren\> where one of those is a metal 12:05:15 \oren\: and one of them is lighting technology 12:05:16 popular in zeppelins 12:05:41 and one of them is a rarer alternate name for dog leashes 12:05:47 <\oren\> need knead 12:06:48 fix fax fuck 12:07:14 one of the couch commentators in this has a strain accent I find hard to understand 12:08:34 . o O ( norwegian, being germanic, has irregular verbs fairly similar to english ones ) 12:09:00 <\oren\> lie laid/lied lain/lied 12:09:14 <\oren\> that's what it is 12:09:41 spy spew spot 12:10:04 \oren\: no way. it involves "lay" as a form somewhere 12:10:21 <\oren\> lay is also a verb in the present 12:10:35 <\oren\> lay - laid - lain 12:10:58 <\oren\> as in "the chicken laid an egg" 12:11:21 ligge - lå - ligget, legge - la - lagt 12:11:35 (no:equiv) 12:11:41 <\oren\> "the man got laid" is the "lie laid lain" 12:12:22 <\oren\> it had better not be in the other sense of laid 12:12:29 \oren\: that's the problem, yes 12:13:04 so then what are the two or maybe three conjugations of "lie"? 12:13:09 and which one is for which meaning? 12:14:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:14:18 <\oren\> lie - laid or layed - lain is for lying down in a bed 12:15:00 <\oren\> lie lied lied is for lying about where you had lain the previous night 12:15:12 <\oren\> that's the two 12:15:15 heh 12:16:46 though my dictionary doesn't agree 12:17:13 <\oren\> really? 12:17:16 <\oren\> hmmmm 12:17:25 it says lie - lay - lain for the first meaning 12:18:03 <\oren\> i think lay also works 12:18:06 lie as in telling falsehoods is regular, so lie - lied - lied 12:18:29 and for the transitive verb, lay - laid - laid 12:19:20 in total this means that lie has four different past tense forms: lied, lay, laid, layed 12:19:22 horrible 12:19:42 no wonder I'm confused 12:20:27 <\oren\> meh in this particular case native speakers are confused too so youre all good 12:21:47 <\oren\> to me "I laid on the bed" sounds right but the dictionary doesn't like that so wtf i dunno 12:25:36 actually, let me check my other dictionary now 12:27:12 the two dictionaries say the same 12:28:47 "I laid myself down on the bed" :P 12:31:41 it's confusing because in English there aren't too many such pairs where the transitive and intransitive verb are different but close 12:31:47 another pair is "rise" and "raise" 12:32:02 which also involves some irregular conjugation related to flowers or something 12:32:35 but rise/rose/risen does not conflict with raise/raised/raised 12:33:19 unlike lie/lay/lain(!) and lay/laid/laid 12:33:33 sure 12:33:38 "lie" is the worst 12:35:01 and there's lie/lied/lied, so confusing. 12:35:15 and lye. 12:35:46 (which isn't a verb) 12:36:38 and "die" which also means like four different things 12:37:41 ceasing to live, paint, a mold as in container in which you pour molten metal or plastic to make it assume some particular form, and throwing dice for games of chance 12:37:48 some of those might be related, I don't know 12:45:11 I know this is obvious, but a 100% run was a good idea, because it shows up parts of the game you never see in other runs 12:45:31 and it's only about twice as long 12:46:48 . o O ( is "twice" the plural of "twie"? ) 12:58:02 <^v> /--\ 12:58:02 <^v> . o O /\ | | 12:58:02 <^v> \/ \__/ 13:00:39 I was stupid and messed up this jeans by washing it together with some new woolen socks at high temperature, so now it's all full of alien strands stuck onto it, and I can't get them off even by rewashing it multiple times. I'm now down to only one way that can fix it. 13:01:31 This is annoying. 13:02:07 <^v> shit i do at 6 AM during hackathon https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/198658294007463936/272703774798118912/20170122_061614.jpg 13:02:16 ^v: http://sprunge.us/WMie 13:02:28 -!- tromp has joined. 13:03:57 ^v: what's that? brainfuck to C translation? 13:04:25 it's really blurry 13:04:34 hangman in brainfuck? 13:05:28 but yeah, that's very blurry. I think it says "readme" in one place 13:05:36 or readline. 13:05:51 (which better corresponds to the code) 13:07:48 <^v> readline 13:07:59 <^v> the top left is instruction reference 13:08:05 <^v> bottom left if/else 13:08:26 <^v> right is some obscure C++ code 13:17:01 I didn't eve know there's an x-ray specs in this game 13:18:23 -!- iaglium has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:18:27 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:18:43 http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/ 13:19:09 izabera: good one. 13:19:30 though I wonder why it doesn't ask for a CVC code? 13:19:45 the music of this game is still amazing 13:21:12 int-e: because they already know that your CVC code is 476 13:22:14 so... why does that website use google analytics.. 13:26:27 -!- iaglium has joined. 13:28:54 too bad they took the http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/vbvleftnavverified.gif out (though of course for a good reason) 13:50:34 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 13:54:09 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 14:00:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:19:19 -!- tromp has joined. 14:21:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:23:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:32:38 -!- Nithogg has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5). 14:47:08 -!- boilyphone has joined. 14:47:41 `wisdom 14:47:54 oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. 14:51:17 he's a @messages-lord now? must be a recent change 14:55:59 Wob_jellonas. I believe that bit was added awhile ago. 14:57:00 I'm not good at using mercurial so I don't know how to check easily, but whatever 14:57:25 boilyphone won't see boily's @messages 14:57:57 I can't keep the usage syntax of a dozen different vcs in my head. 14:58:11 Computer can handle all of them being installed of course. 14:58:15 a dozen seems a bit much... 14:58:24 Int-ello. That's because I'm on my phone, ircing from bed. 14:58:48 -!- boilyphone has changed nick to boily. 14:59:02 @massages-loud 14:59:03 oerjan said 12h 46m 26s ago: i assess that chicken to be misspelled 14:59:03 int-e said 4h 15m 32s ago: ants --> Langton 14:59:30 -!- boily has changed nick to boilyphone. 14:59:53 git mercurial darcs svn cvs rcs, I think those are the ones that I've used and rcs doesn't really count. 15:00:27 int-e: slightly, yes. I use git and subversion regularly, but I've had to use a lot of others one-off to checkout individual repositories when the data was only available that way: cvs, bazaar (really), mercurial, darcs, fossil, and that's only the ones I remember. 15:01:11 I've heard of monotone, bazaar and fossil. 15:02:04 also, a few months ago my co-worker said they're making a new vcs in work time, for some particular purpose connected to a project at work. I asked him if they looked at all the other existing software and made sure none of them is suitable. they said no. 15:02:21 luckily it's not something I'll have to work with directly. 15:03:27 If it counts, I've also used several wikis that have built-in version control for their content. 15:04:39 And of course I've also used management's version control (copies of a file with version numbers in their filename). 15:04:55 And I've used diff/patch/diff3 directly a lot too. 15:05:22 Sometimes those help even together with a higher-level vcs. 15:07:34 I don't think I ever used monotone. 15:08:26 Well, hopefully "soon" ais's scapegoat will end the vcs wars forever, because it will be better than all other vcses. 15:09:52 Is scapegoat like feather? 15:10:35 boilyphone: no, because ais does talk about scapegoat's design. it's more like just vaporware, more vaporware than aimake4 or the uncursed2 15:10:45 it's a lot of work to write a good vcs 15:11:00 You don't say. 15:11:22 I have some vague ideas too, but I'll probably never implement them 15:11:42 and I'm not even sure if my ideas are consistent 15:11:53 as in, what I want to do might be logically impossible 15:12:39 what I should do is learn a little of mercurial to find out what its advantages and drawbacks are 15:13:34 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:22:03 -!- boilyphone has quit (Quit: FELT CHICKEN). 15:23:18 Mercurial reminds me of Athur Dent's attempts to get some tea. It's a VCS almost, but not quite, entirely unlike git. 15:25:20 It has a sound foundation but its UI keeps tripping me up... 15:28:03 solid foundation but bad UI sounds like git, yes 15:28:33 -!- TellsTogo has joined. 15:39:17 which is strange because you'd think if someone decides to make a new vcs, then having to add a sane UI is the one lesson they'd learn from git 15:42:16 do you realize that mercurial and git are pretty much the same age? 15:44:16 int-e: no, I thought mercurial is newer, because people seem to define it as better than git 15:45:13 or maybe that's only every other vcs that does that, mercurial doesn't? 15:45:24 I think I've met mercurial later than git 15:53:37 if it's as old as git then I guess it's undrestandible 15:56:04 http://marc.info/?l=git&m=111475459526688&w=2 is the earliest mail I can readily find about mercurial. 15:56:48 (but there's probably a couple before that on the main lkml) 15:57:50 I see 16:01:22 I should ask wikipedia, which links to http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0504.2/0670.html 16:02:55 -!- tromp has joined. 16:05:35 -!- TellsTogo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:06:49 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:07:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:10:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:10:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 16:10:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:36:09 -!- Mathtician has joined. 16:36:22 -!- Mathtician has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:05:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:20:16 -!- tromp has joined. 17:24:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:27:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:29:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:36:50 https://twitter.com/FAKKU/status/822594891339403267 17:52:53 why? 17:53:10 * int-e goes find some bleach to wash the sight from his eyes. 18:01:46 <\oren\> lol 18:01:52 <\oren\> top kek 18:03:41 -!- LKoen has joined. 18:25:05 <\oren\> 核栽桁桃桑 18:25:05 <\oren\> 桟梗梨棄棋棚棟棺椅楼概槽欄欧欺款歓歳殉殊 18:25:07 <\oren\> 殖殴殻殿沼況泊泌泡泥泰洞津洪浄浦 18:28:33 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:29:19 -!- Zarutian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:29:56 -!- Zarutian has joined. 18:35:23 \oren\: is that a list of characters? or does it mean something? 18:39:49 <\oren\> wob_jonas: a list of the characters I've added today 18:40:29 the SNES is amazingly powerful 18:40:32 so many good games 18:40:36 with such great graphics 18:42:29 wob_jonas: the nice thing about SNES is it was designed (as well as they could at the time) to be as extensible as possible from the cartridge 18:44:08 makes it sometimes pain in the arse to emulate for though. 18:48:10 Yeah, the cartridge can freaking bus-master. 18:48:26 It might not be the best way to make it extensible, but it's definitely flexible. 18:53:21 so did they ever make games that came with their own coprocessor? 18:53:59 Yes 18:54:40 I believe some of the later games came with on-cartridge processors more powerful than the SNES itself... 18:56:15 "ST018 is used for AI functionality in Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shogi 2. It is a 21.47 MHz, 32-bit ARMv3 processor.[7]" 18:56:52 Kind of crazy compared to the SNES's CPU 18:57:06 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips has lots of other fun chips, too 18:58:54 FireFly: yeah. Then there's those laser printers from the late 1990s that had immensely powerful processor and memory in them. 18:59:15 just to intrepret postscript iirc 18:59:22 We had one at home at one point, and while it wasn't actually more powerful than the desktop computer, it was in the same league. 18:59:38 Haha 18:59:48 These days we have powerful video cards instead, with RAM amount sometimes comparable to the main RAM. 19:00:01 int-e: Also, the SuperFX chips were coprocessors. 19:01:31 FireFly: admittedly, laser printers sort of need to have a whole page sized high resolution frame buffer, unlike dot matrix printers, which can get away with just like 512 byte of memory or even less. 19:03:58 wob_jones: or that dot matrix printer a friend of mine owns, it is connected via parallel port and each pin just control diffrent action or senses something. 19:06:21 Zarutian: wow... that's like floppy disk and hard disk connectors, but those are internal to the case, and don't have to direct eight pins, so it's much easier. 19:06:29 I didn't know such a thing existed. 19:06:37 Which is a bit unusual for old parallel-attached printers. 19:06:57 Most of them used ASCII right over the cable. 19:07:22 I think I know there's a cheap dot matrix printer with no character buffer in it, so it can have even less RAM (and so needs even more continuous attention of the cpu than usual), but wow. 19:07:43 pikhq: ASCII or uncompressed bitmap graphics, yes 19:08:30 How do you even control such a printer? Do you need a special controller card in front of the parallel port? Or an unusually fast cpu? 19:08:34 wob_jonas: yeah, it was rather cheapish for its time but could do graphics, if you had the correct software. 19:10:06 wob_jonas: no, not unusually fast cpu. The thing took its time to work. 19:10:39 Zarutian: how much damage could you cause with it if the software was buggy? 19:11:02 wob_jonas: made it rather easy for my friend to get it working with an arduino though. Loud as hell but does carbon paper nicely 19:11:31 wob_jonas: not much as there were hardware interlocks and such in it. 19:11:38 Would it just print outside of the paper to the rubber drum, or would it like pop all apart so you can't even reassemble it, break the expensive head, and catch fire? 19:11:43 I see. 19:12:41 yeah printing on the rubber drum happened but it was much a deal. Just remember to wipe it before the next page. 19:12:51 it wasnt much of a deal* 19:14:15 Zarutian: how many pins does it have? 19:14:49 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:15:04 wob_jonas: dont remember but not that many 19:15:14 o.O' ECP parallel defined *DMA* over parallel? 19:15:24 Probably seven or eight then. 19:15:33 think 3x3 or so iirc 19:15:36 I don't think anyone makes printers with less than seven pins. 19:15:45 Hmm actually... 19:16:12 printed half line of characters at the time iirc 19:16:43 or was it 1x8? I truely dont remember 19:16:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:16:59 Wandel did build a one-dot printer back in the day => http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/printer.html 19:17:05 yeah the latter. 19:18:33 though there was software (written in FigForth iirc) that could do nice line graph plots on that printer. 19:19:07 as the rubber drum could be stepped back and forth like the printer head. 19:19:53 3x3 would be strange. you have to drag the head all the way through the paper, so I don't think more than one column is worth 19:20:08 having a longer column with 9 or 16 pins can be worth, but it's expensive 19:21:26 -!- tromp has joined. 19:21:32 it did bolding by slightly shifting the rubber drum and reprinting the text or stuff to be reprinted 19:22:22 <\oren\> http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/plotter.html 19:22:51 \oren\: yes, I know, what about it? 19:23:36 but here is something that has puzzled me a bit regarding homecomputer magazines in the era of the 6502 is that there didnt seem to be any diy paperpunches or at least paper readers described anywhere in them. 19:24:19 <\oren\> wob_jonas: well he apparently created vector fonts from scratch 19:24:38 Zarutian: isn't that because they had casette drives at that time, which was way more efficient than ticker tape? 19:24:38 <\oren\> very impressive 19:25:14 \oren\: dunno, I'm a software guy, so I find building and maintaining the hardware more impressive 19:26:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:27:23 wob_jonas: well, casettes were semi nice for keeping relatively lot of data. But I am talking about less than a kilobyte or so and it was often easier to optain paper than casettes. Even newpaper could have worked in a pinch. 19:27:38 newspaper* 19:28:04 Zarutian: casettes were easy to obtain too. 19:28:26 As for a kilobyte of data, you just type that in the keyboard. Unless you have like a zx80 with those horrible keys. 19:29:13 or that Polish one with 17 keys (4x4 hex plus the I key from a picture I saw) 19:29:38 which one is that? 19:31:14 dont recall its name. But it was rather extensible design as you could add a real keyboard, diskette drive and so on via daisy chained ribbon cables. 19:33:03 talking about membrane keyboards, I heard that new designs have started to use the capacitance touch tech to do away with the wearout on the keys. 19:33:43 I like switch based keyboard for their feel but detest the amount of noise the buckle spring ones make. 19:34:01 The IBM PC was also a very extensible design. You would add extra RAM and all other sorts of extension cards to the card slots on the motherboard. A video card is practically a mandatory addition. 19:34:19 Zarutian: there are more silent switch keyboards I hear. 19:34:50 I bought a nice heavy noisy one for home a few months ago. Here the noise doesn't matter. 19:35:00 yeah, IBM PC came rather bit later than say Apple ][ or. 19:35:21 I like the original PC keyboard 19:35:21 It's so noisy the springs sometimes even *echo* for a few tenths of a second after letting the key go. 19:35:38 But sadly spring keyboards are expensive these dasy. 19:35:47 wob_jonas: I dont like the noise. Heck, I try to find ways to make fans less noisy 19:35:49 They had a good quality. The only problem was the lack of lights on the keyboard. 19:35:53 The keyboards themselves are expensive, and so is the shipping. 19:36:16 Zarutian: fans, sure. It's different. The keyboard is noisy only when I'm typing on it, and then it doesn't bother me. 19:36:20 you can bludgeon someone to death in two strikes with these keyboards. 19:36:31 It's like how the sudden movements of the car bother you much less if you're driving it. 19:37:05 zzo38: you mean the XT keyboard? 19:37:20 with at least 111 keys? 19:38:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:39:07 Zarutian: no, the XT keyboard only has 83, the AT one has 101 19:39:34 This one I'm typing on has 104 keys, though in a somewhat unusual layout: 19:39:37 both missing the numpad? 19:39:45 wob_jonas: Yes. 19:40:12 the left side is like that of a 104 key keyboard, but the right side with the shift and enter key is placed like a 105 key keyboard, with a long backspace and the backslash next to the enter. 19:40:34 The springs on this keyboard are a bit too heavy though, I should buy a weaker one the next time I buy a keyboard. 19:41:00 The biggest problem I have is with the shift. Sometimes I fail to press shift at the same time as the key it's supposed to modify. 19:41:22 So I type / at the end of questions even more often than with other keybards. 19:41:34 But even apart from the shift, the springs feel too strong. 19:41:48 Definitely need a weaker one next time (which won't be until some years I guess). 19:43:39 okay.../ 20:38:03 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:47:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:50:09 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:52:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:05:56 -!- boily has joined. 21:07:39 -!- Cale has joined. 21:09:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:18:04 `wisdom 21:18:13 relevant info//The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller. 21:22:06 -!- tromp has joined. 21:26:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:47:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:11:39 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:25:45 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 22:39:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 22:50:30 -!- Cale has joined. 23:20:57 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:23:03 -!- tromp has joined. 23:27:42 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:29:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:35:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:59:44 -!- tromp has joined.