< 1486166788 0 :hppavilion1!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486167338 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486167624 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1486168024 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486168652 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486169205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1486170110 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc110797-lewi20-2-0-cust239.2-4.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486170110 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc110797-lewi20-2-0-cust239.2-4.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1486170110 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1486170133 0 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1486170580 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fboyxgnwpckkonzc QUIT :Excess Flood < 1486170779 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nmayknvwrhwnxdhz JOIN :#esoteric < 1486171435 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486172820 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1486173036 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: The program is not written in C though; it is JavaScript < 1486173069 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file format used by SQLite4 may do, but I do not have the implementation in JavaScript < 1486173086 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a version 4 of sqlite? < 1486173105 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Website just lists 3 I think... < 1486173173 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is; version 4 uses a key/value storage as a backend storage format, where the key and value are both binary data. However I only needed a number as the key and not arbitrary data. < 1486173270 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with a format that supports arbitrary data as the key? < 1486173299 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly, is overdoing for my purpose. < 1486173361 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is sqlite4's key-value database good? < 1486173386 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say it's faster than LevelDB but they don't say for what. For everything? < 1486173387 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know actually < 1486173397 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used it < 1486174275 0 :krok_!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally haven't seen any discussion of esoteric languages since i first joined this channel < 1486174416 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should talk here, otherwise people forget I exist < 1486174425 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :krok_: it happens sometimes < 1486174432 0 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/oswg-member/yorick PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it once or twice. I've been here for years < 1486174440 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :krok_: We don't always have, but if you have question about them, you can ask < 1486174456 0 :krok_!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: thanks < 1486175229 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really ought to post my language somewhere so I can add it to the Wiki and have a source... < 1486175659 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486175825 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1486175877 0 :krok_!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486177507 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486177571 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486177686 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I though the MtG stuff was esoteric-related < 1486178033 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :tfw an entire evening of coding amounts to figuring out how to get the compiler installed < 1486178039 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, cabal < 1486179123 0 :hppavilion1!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1486179692 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Urbanangel 5* 10New user account < 1486181668 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1486181710 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1486181822 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50833&oldid=50824 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (+204) 10/* Introductions */ < 1486181834 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50834 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (+1400) 10Created page with "=== How it works === There are two variables, known as variable1 and variable2. You change these to manipulate code, output ASCII characters and change your position in the co..." < 1486181852 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50835&oldid=50834 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (+1) 10/* Commands */ < 1486181866 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50836&oldid=50835 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (-1) 10/* Commands */ < 1486181895 0 :otherbot!~yaybot@unaffiliated/jeffl35/bot/jeffbot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486181946 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50837&oldid=50836 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (-4) 10/* Hello World */ < 1486181954 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50838&oldid=50837 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (+1) 10/* Hello World */ < 1486181995 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Sd14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50839&oldid=50838 5* 03Urbanangel 5* (+0) 10/* Hello World */ < 1486183233 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486184562 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486184921 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486187197 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:e46e:6b61:e549:97cb JOIN :#esoteric < 1486187465 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:e46e:6b61:e549:97cb QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1486190011 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1486190185 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1486190529 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486191956 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486192593 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1486192971 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose I have a set of exactly 4 values. would it be faster to call qsort or to do some fixed set of compare and swaps < 1486193038 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more generally, at what fixed array size does it become faster to call a sort function than to do some fixed set of < 1486193058 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(a[i]>a[j])swap(a,i,j); < 1486193071 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :statements < 1486193106 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort 4 values with 5 compare swaps < 1486193332 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about 6 < 1486193459 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1486193493 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_network hth < 1486193573 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort is a generic function < 1486193593 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's never faster than any alternative < 1486193617 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling an indirect function instead of cmp is too expensive < 1486193882 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: ok, but at what point does a sorting network become less efficient than an algorithm where ther sequence of comparisons is not fixed? < 1486193902 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thanks for the pointer < 1486194045 0 :hppavilion1!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486194331 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e4354b.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1486195579 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1486195817 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486197223 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort may be faster if the program runs for less time than the programmer spent writing it < 1486197733 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486198017 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1486199163 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486201899 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4bf3b.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1486203297 0 :hppavilion1!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1486205008 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486205261 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486206066 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486208257 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jkukvtsovdbcntuq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1486208672 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486209477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486209477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1486209477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486209562 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486209817 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486210033 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1486210034 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is AАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑAАΑ < 1486210043 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7 < 1486210045 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is n9y25ah7 < 1486210201 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c JOIN :#esoteric < 1486210267 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4bf3b.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486210496 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1486211029 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486211359 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1486212281 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486213109 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486213217 0 :kiki`!uid170954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pkwbrhvxfijtcqif JOIN :#esoteric < 1486213789 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-nmayknvwrhwnxdhz QUIT :Excess Flood < 1486213979 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-axvxmpfkjdrlfrpq JOIN :#esoteric < 1486214531 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486215117 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486215200 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486215288 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1486215290 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maple//Maples are the sacred trees of Canada, from which a true Canadian can make anything. < 1486215293 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Aqenbpuu. < 1486215295 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOHOO! < 1486215318 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always liked maples < 1486215320 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: You don't have to be that happy it was about Canada. < 1486215341 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HackEgo is alive! < 1486215379 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm sure we can have two potms for a good cause < 1486215921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mapole < 1486215922 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. < 1486215980 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486216082 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1486216305 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486216339 0 :Arif1!~Fujitsu@103.29.124.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486216350 0 :Arif1!~Fujitsu@103.29.124.21 PART #esoteric : < 1486217301 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1486217479 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome VisualizeR < 1486217481 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06VisualizeR: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1486217520 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily, thanks for having me. < 1486218166 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so polite < 1486218169 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: help! < 1486218169 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not running os x, you don't ever *have* to do that. < 1486218552 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualizeR: what brings you here? do you like esolanging? what is your stance about roast beef? < 1486218625 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm designing games, so I'm an artist. but I figured this is more about programming which I'm not so good at. roast beef is fine once in a month but I wouldn't want to have it any day. < 1486218678 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! yes, this is about programming, at least the moments it is about programming... < 1486218722 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yeah its always good to tunnel and come back some place and socialize, right? < 1486218826 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just set up freenode and the user count in the list was promising. so..is this about esoterics or not? and if so how is it connected to order information? does it help to shape benefitial thought patterns? what is the goal? < 1486218975 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming is fringe programming. it is exploring the limits of its meaning through creativity, poetry, absurdity and mental ankle sprains. < 1486219080 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of what esoterics is but I don't see how that helps in developing an efficient language. a coder might understand a side joke you put in there on purpose, but the computer running it doesn't. < 1486219217 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't usually care about efficiency, just possibility. of course we sometimes discuss about regular languages. < 1486219300 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few mathematicians in this channel, a bunch of software developers, many bots, one cyborg, and fungot. < 1486219301 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it would need bindings to c++ and see what happens? did you try to index it out of two apples, a roll of string and a piece of functional perl: perl -e ' print &&sub my f shift; return sub my n shift; return 1 if n 2; return &&f(f)(n-1) &&f(f)(n-2); )(8), " deep copies" and " after < 1486219326 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1486219386 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualizeR: esolangs are games in some sense < 1486219397 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I suspect boily's better at spraining ankles than most ) < 1486219460 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de TOPIC #esoteric :The international hub for Esoteric Mentalism | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1486219475 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? pun < 1486219476 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings. < 1486219493 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, you're meta philosophising about how it should be and how to get there. in order to make possibilities graspable I'd always try to visualize them. So personally I think visual coding is the best way to achieve permutations when you already set up a system. the end user should be able to operate it at will and create them. < 1486219600 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: wait, a cyborg? < 1486219666 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi. < 1486219684 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1486219684 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ < 1486219695 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems broken. < 1486219705 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, absent really :) < 1486219728 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we still need a spider who talks about endoskeletons ( https://xkcd.com/1530/ ) < 1486219757 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? golf < 1486219758 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golf is the shortest game known. The goal is to get a ball into a hole with a single stroke. < 1486219858 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically correct < 1486219869 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I thought about this recently and it occured to me that programming can be seen as just "instructing machines to take information from one abstract place, transform it and then put it in another abstract place" < 1486219913 0 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your point being? < 1486219936 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are no constraints on the form of information and the machines at all < 1486219978 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup basically like ribosomes copying snippets of dna to form proteins, translation and transcription < 1486220002 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486220030 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, yes < 1486220043 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486220203 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fc52:d3a:d892:70ac JOIN :#esoteric < 1486220357 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then, visual programming is just another notation that helps people to think about what goes where and how the computation looks like < 1486220387 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are machines all the way down < 1486220441 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just tools that compute faster < 1486220511 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do that without any special "visual language" < 1486220537 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a modular system that allows for combinations is the best system to have in my eyes. sure it only involves everything within system, bus this is why you need to made sure it has support for extentions. < 1486220570 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general user doesn't know about coding, they're used to moving a mouse and clicking stuff < 1486220655 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional programming is about that: transforming functions into other functions, and composing those functions together. it lends pretty well to visual and dataflow programming. < 1486220657 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about better ways to teach kids programming right from the start because it can help them way better in the world we're heading to. < 1486220696 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Lego NXT is the best effort out there to engage the next generation with programming. < 1486220754 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional < 1486220787 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486220832 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like minecraft, especially the tech mods < 1486220864 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5mQxX-Zd0 I'm thinking about this game called codespells. they did it very well < 1486220904 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great stuff, it can teach you how to design scalable, distributed systems without ever mentioning it < 1486221005 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with visual programming systems, such as puredata, is that eventually you end up with an unholy mess of wires < 1486221084 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually they don't implement any kind of metaprogramming facilities < 1486221169 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't this regular capsuling of scripts? < 1486221170 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hard to visualise because it suddenly needs more dimensions < 1486221197 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's one dimension < 1486221259 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how about having a block that can transform and spawn given subgraps and is programmed visually itself? < 1486221310 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply open up another type of scripts for every within that subsystem < 1486221331 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*object < 1486221379 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1486221461 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that would be enough to go meta < 1486221656 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be self-sustaining, be relevant as a program and on top of that it can influence society. that is the meta level, so there needs to be hubs on each section branching to the subsystems depending on the desired content < 1486221671 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the kids... there should be something like "SICP for kids" < 1486221722 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://landoflisp.com/ ? < 1486221750 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c JOIN :#esoteric < 1486221760 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486221778 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeaaahhh but without mentioning LISP < 1486221872 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just uh, teaching youngsters about computation without imposing any particular programming system < 1486221933 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this kind of thinking isn't much harder to learn than algebra < 1486221965 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives you something that laymen see as a superpower < 1486222001 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell machines what to do and use them to make changes in the world < 1486222043 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1486222047 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1486222225 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think the biggest problem nowadays is we have too much freedom on one hand and too little of it on the other. it would require teaching them why it is beneficial. it needs something like an entry drug and games are perfect for that. this is about having one option or many to choose from and most people stick to one thing after they have found "their" thing. < 1486222339 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you talk to people about why they should use this particular language you use and why they should too this is like talknig about religion or other products. our personal view biases us into limiting our own view. we like to go to the biggest system around and simply go with it. I know this doesn't apply to you guys. < 1486222343 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying that it is free will if people choose to have one or many options < 1486222368 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c JOIN :#esoteric < 1486222899 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1486223048 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486223619 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think visual programming is great for domain specific things. < 1486223680 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1486223686 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty in programming is not the way you do it. < 1486223694 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's a graphical language or a non-graphical one < 1486223705 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A for loop is a for loop. < 1486223796 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :who decides that the logic used within is the best there is? < 1486223898 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/snRrxLzj <- there < 1486223906 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the transcript from the codespells video < 1486223918 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside that there are no blue, pink, green boxes around the text < 1486223921 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally the same thing. < 1486223959 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a fancier way of displaying text. < 1486223962 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much it. < 1486224010 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is exactly what is needed ^^ synesthetics help to differentiate content < 1486224026 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*synaesthesia < 1486224049 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualizeR: people who write compilers and core libraries decide what is, within a given programming language, the Best Way To Do Things™. < 1486224073 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally understood what you mean tho, the logic is the same but the presentation differs < 1486224076 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what boily said < 1486224085 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't decide what language to use on the language. < 1486224094 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they decide it on the language's ecosystems. < 1486224114 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most languages are pretty much the same, same powerful so language differences are mostly completely irrelevant. < 1486224117 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantic of what you write is independent of the actual physical process that happens in your machine. what mroman said: a for loop is a for loop. < 1486224129 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only real constraints anymore are memory management and type safety < 1486224176 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're like different tools, each one is best for a specific task < 1486224188 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages? < 1486224189 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1486224207 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can translate pretty much any language easily into any other language < 1486224216 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily translate perl to python, python to ruby, ruby to php < 1486224218 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem. < 1486224247 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mainstream languages are (almost) mathematically equivalent. it's just the subjective ease you can describe a task in a programming language that will differ from another one. < 1486224252 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is best for the ecosystem then? < 1486224264 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these languages are mostly only different in syntax < 1486224270 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and syntax is easy to "translate" < 1486224273 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep got that < 1486224295 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you can't translate library calls because they don't have the same libraries. < 1486224316 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes some languages more efficient in certain tasks, right? < 1486224340 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although to be fair they have different OOP so some edge-cases are probably a bit harder to translate < 1486224342 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're always building upon previous work. a task may be easier in one language because some guy did the grunt work for you. < 1486224359 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but these details aren't really what you decide on which languages you should use. < 1486224370 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people use PHP for webdev? < 1486224375 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple. < 1486224381 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's installed everywhere on free hosters. < 1486224383 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486224387 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fc52:d3a:d892:70ac PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't know about javascript < 1486224398 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people use javascript for webdev? < 1486224403 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no other language available. < 1486224419 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486224440 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mostly use python because it has a HUGE set of packages available < 1486224493 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good ecosystem means < 1486224510 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.) lots of packages b.) lots of bindings to c libraries (such as gtk, databases, etc. etc.) < 1486224541 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In python i can do import rest; rest.call('/method', blurks); < 1486224552 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not because of python it's because somebody took the time to write a nice package < 1486224563 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell I'd probably have to set up http requests manually and stuff like that < 1486224574 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the most important part are those core libraries which define the functions the language will have. it probably is a child of the time and can't possibily fit any future needs, right? so it is about keeping it alive and up to date. < 1486224579 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I just want to do some rest request I'll probably use python, even though I don't like python as a language. < 1486224621 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualizeR: core libraries are in constant fluctuation. active development is perpetual, to fix security bugs, add new features, optimize stuff... < 1486224625 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the prof. java/js scene it's more about frameworks even < 1486224630 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't look for a javascript developer < 1486224631 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1486224637 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you look for somebody who knows angular < 1486224644 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever your company is using. < 1486224661 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :java it's the same < 1486224666 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guice, spring .... < 1486224681 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1486224730 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give a kid a visual programming IDE < 1486224738 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't write a dijkstra in it < 1486224740 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1486224762 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the kid knows shit about algorithms and math and science < 1486224809 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly this is why a game is good, it can see the strength of the avatar change with the numbers < 1486224817 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only point I could agree on is that visual programming might make kids more motivitated to code < 1486224823 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not because it makes it any easier or different < 1486224830 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because it looks more interesting to little kids < 1486224837 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, I agree < 1486224839 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's presented in colours. < 1486224868 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBS presents this program in colour. < 1486224880 0 :contrapumpkin!?@? NICK :copumpkin < 1486224907 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about how red eye correction works < 1486224919 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you give me a function "red-eye-correction(Image img);" I can do it < 1486224993 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1486225030 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of that function is much more important than the language. < 1486225041 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or IDE < 1486225043 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or editor < 1486225044 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather in need of procedual textures combined with procedual music and a detection of the music the manipulate the textures and animations with < 1486225044 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1486225054 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1486225193 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you can teach people to write apps < 1486225207 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without teaching them anything about algorithms and stuff < 1486225210 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to know < 1486225257 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good. I don't oppose that. but I still think anything related to visual programming is too hyped < 1486225295 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people used vb6 because it had an UI to write GUI code. < 1486225321 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a useful application of "visual programming" but it's very domain specific. < 1486225344 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you initially said < 1486225395 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's also a good use is to have some model you can visually create and then write codegenerators for that < 1486225412 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIRO or whatever that was called < 1486225427 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can describe state machines in that, then generate the code for it. < 1486225444 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you only need to write code to read/write from pins/io ports manually < 1486225452 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. used for embedded systems < 1486225476 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a good application for "visual programming" but also domain specific as it's limited to state machines and i/o systems < 1486225619 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1486225668 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I think video games are a goodthing. < 1486225670 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh. < 1486225682 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably the only computer scientist that actually hates most of the computer related stuff :D < 1486225695 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like facebook < 1486225697 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or video games < 1486225703 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or social media sites < 1486225707 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except IRC of course. < 1486225717 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is great. It's true. Best chat in the world. < 1486225748 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dating apps < 1486225750 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you know that there are offline video games that you can play all by yourself in your own time, no pressure? < 1486225761 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate computers too < 1486225770 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :offline games are fine iff they have splitscreen. < 1486225774 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to care about them as machines < 1486225793 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dating apps is a pretty bad invention. < 1486225795 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are nice as long as they work < 1486225806 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it benefits everybody but it actually doesn't. < 1486225819 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they're also fun to trouble-shoot, but basically only when I don't actually urgently need them < 1486225819 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they should work and it's technicians' job to tend to them < 1486225831 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and software is mostly crap < 1486225837 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OS are mostly crap too < 1486225841 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a security perspective < 1486225853 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the solution to the software problem has been to write more software < 1486225857 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :find the mistake. < 1486225870 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing is < 1486225871 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need built-in "selinux" stuff in your OS < 1486225874 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can talk about security < 1486225875 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise < 1486225878 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1486225897 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :selinux? < 1486225904 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this field is so vast, you can zoom in and out, circle the globe and read everything < 1486225911 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know... very fine grained ACL for processes, users, file systems etc. < 1486225912 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ASLR is the only "security" feature that's really in use here... < 1486225939 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still can't have a consistent idea about how everything works < 1486225941 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I'm vaguely aware, I think is a fair description. < 1486225946 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf /home/$USER < 1486225961 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: *poof* < 1486225968 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can send a windows guy a bat file del /S %HOME%/Documents < 1486225971 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he double clicks it < 1486225972 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's fucked < 1486225981 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how good security is on modern operating systems. < 1486225987 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does / work for \ there? < 1486225993 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1486225994 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1486226000 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my admin days are behind me < 1486226015 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works in some cases < 1486226032 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably python/java secretly translating / to \ < 1486226041 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I encountered http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/ these days, fun to read. < 1486226058 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a bug in Word.exe < 1486226061 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can delete all your documents < 1486226065 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't call that security. < 1486226081 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have talked with people at work about how to solve the problem < 1486226089 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they just laughed at me and told me "It'll never happen" < 1486226093 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess they are right. < 1486226101 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no money in security apparentely < 1486226112 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1486226118 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's money in selling AV products < 1486226125 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1486226127 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1486226129 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a crappy solution to the problem. < 1486226140 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a solution < 1486226143 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just crap. < 1486226153 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the times when you got a CIH on a floppy with pirated game and it fried your motherboard < 1486226162 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've been bragging about heuristics for 10 years now < 1486226163 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these were the viruses < 1486226164 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even more < 1486226171 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.) it doesn't work < 1486226176 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b.) even if it would: it's a crappy solution. < 1486226182 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it's just spyware, ransomware and crapware < 1486226188 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disgusting < 1486226214 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want fine grained permissions per process and user etc. < 1486226222 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and software needs to drop privileges < 1486226228 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's only working with minimal privileges. < 1486226236 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you? < 1486226243 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you open word foo.doc < 1486226244 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means more management < 1486226253 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to drop all privileges except to that file < 1486226258 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I what? < 1486226263 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No OS currently supports this. < 1486226270 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :< mroman> I want fine grained permissions per process and user etc. < 1486226273 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robert.ocallahan.org/2017/01/disable-your-antivirus-software-except.html was another nice article; https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/03/security_threat_solutions/?mt=1486125905262 is also relevant. < 1486226277 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that yes. < 1486226288 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that look like in practice? < 1486226295 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it means you gonna have to start from scratch and design an OS with security in mind SINCE THE START. < 1486226315 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: a.) you configure what parts of the filesystem a process can even see etc. < 1486226318 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fine grained. < 1486226323 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have security contexts < 1486226330 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can narrow a securyt contexts < 1486226333 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one day some smart kid will crack even this < 1486226384 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you're right in principle, but a key question is how to make all this usable and understandable for laypeople. < 1486226387 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: hmm.. design an OS with security in mind from the start? Have you heard about capros? < 1486226407 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just catching up. < 1486226429 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Well the problem is I don't give a fuck about laypeople. < 1486226432 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about unikernels? maybe just box up every application < 1486226433 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I guess a lot could be done by versioned file systems that allow people to go back in time?) < 1486226436 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If software developers would do a better job it would work < 1486226444 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run them in a hypervisor < 1486226444 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they do a crappy job then FUCK them. < 1486226459 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is quite different from what you're suggesting, of course) < 1486226463 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at all the crappy windows installers out there and shit. < 1486226478 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they still exist? < 1486226487 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps executing programs should be a more privileged operation... < 1486226537 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically most of the programs are written for embedded devices (which we're just starting to perceive as an attack surface) and consumer devices (which are sold by usability, not security)... we're, essentially, doomed. < 1486226540 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(last time I've used windows was in 2008) < 1486226583 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/pbo1ADdF <- like that < 1486226588 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :security contexts are like stacks or something < 1486226594 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always drop privileges < 1486226602 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and regain them later using a regain token < 1486226620 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can ask for more privileges at which point the OS will ask the user whether this is ok < 1486226622 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like that. < 1486226635 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: depends on the level of complexity of the embedded SOC. Just using an ARM with a Windows CE or such is not allowed to be primary control in an say a milling machine. < 1486226640 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.) you need to configure the MAXIMUM security context for a process/user < 1486226654 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b.) software needs to drop and regain privileges as necessary. < 1486226667 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to put middlewares on syscalls? < 1486226670 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: congrats you just reinvented the "Mother may I?" problem that plaques systems such as seLinux < 1486226683 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zarutian: XD < 1486226697 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zarutian: What do you mean by that? < 1486226720 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and linux is crap anyway < 1486226724 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to heterogenous. < 1486226726 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is part of rather long lived discussion group that has thought and written extensively about these matters. < 1486226746 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean the distros. < 1486226788 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped worrying and learned to love OS X because it doesn't need anything from me and I just want emacs < 1486226799 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the "Mother may I?" problem? basically from your utterence of the phrase "at which point the OS will ask the user whether this is ok" < 1486226860 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's not really a way to avoid that. < 1486226871 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there not hmm? < 1486226886 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user decides what software can access which parts of his stuff. < 1486226893 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1486226899 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about "dont seperate designation and authority" for a bit and what that could mean < 1486226901 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can hide lots of this from the user < 1486226907 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example with filechooserdialogues < 1486226914 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which grant implicit permissions to the file you selected < 1486226922 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the user doesn't even know that this was a security feature < 1486226935 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :does filechooserdialogues return an filehandle instead of just a path string? < 1486226946 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that it's an OS dialogue < 1486226951 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one from the software < 1486226961 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> PID 1234 at 0x0800000800012f wants to call sysapi_mgvgtbf2 to and will touch "/saou/ajsihaois/annsuoanus/tmp/asu_2872983323/f2f2ff2f201-c.ggg". [GO AHEAD] [NOPE] < 1486226964 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : error: < 1486226964 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data constructor not in scope: < 1486226964 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : PID < 1486226971 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ this < 1486226974 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 times a second < 1486226982 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: hmm.. basically an instance of an pattern called PowerBox < 1486227055 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you nailed it < 1486227117 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: and? < 1486227126 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 times a second < 1486227130 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1486227137 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the software is crap < 1486227140 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your config is wrong. < 1486227141 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your computer is useless < 1486227160 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bad idea that all processes have the same /tmp anyway < 1486227178 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : then the software is crap <--- I thought that was one of the premises < 1486227191 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could install a hand crank on it as well < 1486227207 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use an abstraction layer for the fs < 1486227211 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :process only see a virtual filesystem < 1486227216 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can map stuff into that < 1486227226 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like map /tmp/httpd /tmp < 1486227228 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO this is not a good idea for consumer grade computing < 1486227232 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so httpd has a /tmp < 1486227242 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is on the physical fs in /tmp/httpd < 1486227244 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1486227248 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be quite cool for embedded/process control < 1486227267 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you set up everything and just run stuff for a long periods of time < 1486227316 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you need strict guidelines < 1486227324 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :software developers will need to follow these or gtfo < 1486227333 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a very homogenous environment < 1486227349 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not shitty ideas like "we call it apache2 in this distro, we call it httpd in this distro" < 1486227350 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1486227356 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have multiple distros at all :p < 1486227379 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the future, NaziOS is here < 1486227394 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a radical person. < 1486227395 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1486227401 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :security has it's price. < 1486227404 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1486227407 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1486227432 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have such an OS < 1486227436 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trump Linux < 1486227436 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with such strict guidelines < 1486227449 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the software devs will also ship configuration files for their software < 1486227453 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1486227456 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1486227460 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you would have sewindows < 1486227467 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need months to configure it properly < 1486227475 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1486227484 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd have to write config files for every single process etc. < 1486227489 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because software devs don't ship one < 1486227504 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because their software probably does more than they want to admit < 1486227508 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a fun one... what is the security model of systemd? < 1486227510 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like calling home and stuff. < 1486227528 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my opinion on that is FUCK those software then. < 1486227560 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about systemd internals to answer that. < 1486227570 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's quite sophisticated permission system in Android < 1486227589 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can grant and revoke access to various APIs for each app < 1486227598 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people still click OK < 1486227605 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't even read that stuff < 1486227606 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's a step in the right direction, yes. < 1486227615 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yes because if you need the software then you click OK < 1486227616 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1486227618 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1486227624 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't protect a user from disabling security < 1486227634 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that shouldn't be a reason to NOT implement security. < 1486227641 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can revoke some rights of any app at any time < 1486227649 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it starts nagging you < 1486227657 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :setenforce 0 < 1486227658 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gg. < 1486227685 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh you just want to take a picture? the camera app has no access to the camera, go to settings and enable" < 1486227711 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to pressure software devs into writing good nice software < 1486227766 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how this can be done. < 1486227838 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think selling crap should be illegal :) < 1486227840 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :open source gets ripped off each time they push the limits < 1486227841 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's justme. < 1486227890 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1486227899 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think software needs warranty laws like regular products. < 1486227921 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your software has defects, you should be legally obliged to fix those < 1486227928 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like with any other non-software product. < 1486227984 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you do it commercially < 1486227990 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would mean a permanent internet connection and feedback with their server to ensure everything is within time limits < 1486228052 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess why they digitalize the industries, it still is a law free zone or lets say there are a lot of grey zones < 1486228147 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :next stop transhumanism, posthumanism after that < 1486228180 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :once the technology is in us we're a lot better to control and keep track of < 1486228244 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are bad at solving problems < 1486228246 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my impression. < 1486228267 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they like to talk about problems more than talking about solving problems :) < 1486228377 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no one better < 1486228412 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1486228470 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[at solving problems] < 1486228502 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still don't follow. < 1486228649 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it seems that they aren't even aware of the options they have. < 1486228663 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in switzerland citizens have the power to change laws. < 1486228664 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1486228671 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a law is still in place after complaining for years about it < 1486228693 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this means to me that everybody likes to complain about it, but nobody actually wants to change it. < 1486228704 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everybody is just bullshitting. < 1486228718 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's worse when it's the other way round < 1486228759 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people are pissed off and protesting but government does not listen and keeps doing the opposite to what people want < 1486228802 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a bad political system then :) < 1486228822 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you're talking about a purely hypothetical scenario of course < 1486228835 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely :P < 1486228860 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a silent "Trump" there < 1486228892 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "I do things" attitude. < 1486228897 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't necessarily like what he's up to < 1486228907 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know what he's up to. < 1486228919 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for that ban of 7 countries < 1486228929 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only thing you really read about in newspapers in switzerland. < 1486228942 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised by Trump, I've had samples of this stuff since last winter < 1486228965 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!" -- Trump < 1486228981 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, samples of that as well < 1486228982 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know too much about the US system :( < 1486228983 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1486228985 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :executive orders? < 1486228989 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like legislative < 1486229008 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. why the f*ck does the president have legislative rights? < 1486229063 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"l'état, c'est moi" -- Louis XIV < 1486229068 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4BF3B.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1486229074 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a totally random association < 1486229092 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yeah, this is hardcore < 1486229107 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: technically his decrees cannot go against existing law < 1486229129 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so again, *technically*, you could argue that he has no legislative powers. < 1486229133 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you get a proesident that's in the pocket of the ruling party and paralyzed constitutional court < 1486229138 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the same thing < 1486229165 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically though... he has a crazy amount of power, also because he can fire important people, veto laws and the like < 1486229200 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :checks and balances... < 1486229251 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :president can fire people < 1486229254 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've read an analysis of that recently, but where... basically the conclusion was that the rights of the president was established with the underlying idea that only decent human beings would ever attain that office. < 1486229255 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mistake number two :) < 1486229283 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what he will do next is to convince his electorate that checks and balances are bad and set up by the previous team to impede on making the country great < 1486229308 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and attempt to dismantle them < 1486229361 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just ignore them < 1486229415 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it happening :| < 1486229428 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure Trump will still like cheques. < 1486229504 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another article all but suggested that Trump has a record to beat: Hitler took 5 months from assuming office as chancellor of the Weimar Republic to essentially total power over the state...) < 1486229670 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do I need to do to get a swiss visa? < 1486229730 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you need a swiss visa for? < 1486229748 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get a work permit and stay < 1486229750 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1486229767 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1486229773 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make vacation here < 1486229774 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stay < 1486229792 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( bring money ) < 1486229815 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bring lots of gold < 1486229818 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like gold < 1486229820 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so shiny < 1486229840 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :countries generally have nothing against rich immigrants < 1486229846 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only against poor immigrants :) < 1486229854 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, I'm calling Google Geneva office < 1486229855 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1486229858 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and muslims < 1486229864 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? apt < 1486229865 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1486229869 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :muslims and poor people < 1486229888 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe germans < 1486229895 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :germans are like arch enemies < 1486229898 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for whatever reason < 1486229900 0 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-126-39.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, HTH is also a brand of kitchens < 1486229925 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's because they talk in a funny language :p < 1486229927 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn APT is a technical term in cyber witchcraft, short for "adequate pernicious toe-rags". < 1486229929 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'apt': APT is a technical term in cyber witchcraft, short for "adequate pernicious toe-rags". < 1486229960 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "adequate pernicious toe-rags" < 1486229961 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/03/security_threat_solutions/ < 1486229965 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :though so. < 1486229972 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I never heard about discrimination against rich english people < 1486229981 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as money is always welcome < 1486229990 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll even get tax discounts as a rich foreigner. < 1486229999 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :common practice. < 1486230003 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Hail the Toe Of Everything! < 1486230020 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought < 1486230025 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that everyone in switzerland is more or less well off < 1486230032 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well off how? < 1486230034 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with money? < 1486230040 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1486230045 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1486230049 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more money is always better < 1486230051 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: every country needs slaves ;) < 1486230054 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1486230065 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are rich and move to some village in switzerland < 1486230078 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you only have to pay half the amount a swiss would have to pay in taxes < 1486230087 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no country "needs" slaves, it is just comfortable to have them < 1486230088 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your new neighbours will vote if they want you there :D < 1486230088 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still going to be a good income < 1486230099 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the village can buy a new school < 1486230101 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1486230102 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1486230104 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualizeR: what are you, socialist or communist ;) < 1486230106 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :heaven is a real place on earth, you're just too poor to live in it < 1486230126 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :power to the people < 1486230135 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kidding mostly... also out of my depth < 1486230141 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should read Marx. < 1486230198 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :money equals happiness < 1486230203 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only if you have A LOT of it < 1486230213 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 Mio. isn't enough) < 1486230219 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it does not < 1486230221 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're always wanting to simply accept the biggest system there is but this way we give away our power to share information collectively. that is basically the msg of the aliens, the 1% are the alienated ones and they started a class war. < 1486230223 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up Notch < 1486230229 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's miserable < 1486230250 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"money cannot buy happiness but it sure keeps the family in touch" < 1486230269 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my view on it is that we're all playing a game < 1486230269 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(paraphrased, no clue what the source was) < 1486230274 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and money is a score < 1486230280 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the score* < 1486230307 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1486230308 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this game gets slightly easier for high scoring players < 1486230312 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :family is the score < 1486230314 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion < 1486230315 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly? < 1486230319 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but money can buy you family. < 1486230328 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: slightly, unless you're in the top ten < 1486230351 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with money I could afford plastic surgery < 1486230355 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of plastic surgery. < 1486230389 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cheated and got a lovely wife without using any money ;> < 1486230404 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky bastard :( < 1486230428 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a 0/10. Makes dating incredibly hard. < 1486230448 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think the same < 1486230451 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's hope < 1486230451 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/10 on the revised scale < 1486230456 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the traditional scale < 1486230462 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the traditional scale is useless. < 1486230474 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like grades < 1486230494 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter if you fail with a 1,2,3, or 3.9 (you fail if grade < 4.0) < 1486230510 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail is fail. < 1486230518 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only grades that actually matter are 4 to 6. < 1486230566 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but grades don't count in the game < 1486230575 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not "thinking" that < 1486230575 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game is about score and staying sane < 1486230580 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have hard data on that. < 1486231129 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old are you? < 1486231271 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric : and /s/l < 1486231292 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are known < 1486231336 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the order is important < 1486231367 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/adjectives/order-of-adjectives/ < 1486231375 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1486231613 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 < 1486231637 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :l? < 1486231639 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :language? < 1486231664 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486231676 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :location. < 1486231681 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :purpose or qualifier < 1486231761 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1486231793 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/l/purpose or qualifier < 1486231862 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had to do some chores that turned out to be more time consuming than he thought < 1486231937 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1486232636 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need pictures too? < 1486232724 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? < 1486232746 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1486232771 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1486233082 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Bax3n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50840&oldid=50630 5* 03Bax3n 5* (-24) 10 < 1486233476 0 :boily!~alexandre@24.48.34.70 QUIT :Quit: PILL CHICKEn < 1486234072 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a public youtube channel anyway. < 1486234079 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my face isn't exactly secret :) < 1486234471 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can watch my precious cooking skills. < 1486234606 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a link to your wishlist ;) < 1486234620 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wishlist? < 1486234696 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1486234791 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can document Burlesque for me < 1486234798 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on my whishlist. < 1486234886 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can review Cabaret if you like < 1486234927 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mroman.ch/burlesque/docs/BLSQ.html <- needs a lot of work < 1486234931 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly incomplete < 1486234979 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1486235152 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh. < 1486235168 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not even a 100 builtins documented < 1486235168 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1486235171 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are 400 of those < 1486235178 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486235236 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486235295 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486235305 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486235307 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486235579 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc34f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1486235609 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486235982 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got the best Fibonacci program there is. < 1486236147 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1486237163 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486237822 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1486237833 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486237863 0 :krok!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486237886 0 :krok!?@? NICK :Guest24490 < 1486238034 0 :Guest24490!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net PART #esoteric : < 1486238106 0 :krok_!~krok@static-50-53-174-215.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486240145 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1486240277 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls -l wisdom/password < 1486240278 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 38 Feb 4 12:07 wisdom/password < 1486240282 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1486240287 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1486240287 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The password of the month is n9y25ah7 < 1486240303 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg password < 1486240304 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10206:2017-02-04 learn The password of the month is n9y25ah7 \ 10065:2017-01-01 learn The password of the month is A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91A\xd0\x90\xce\x91 \ 9816:2016-12-02 revert \ 9815:2016-12-02 undo -2 \ 9813:2016-12-02 learn The password of th < 1486240418 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486240423 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what does the Fibonacci program look like? < 1486240477 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! slashes did we have this < 1486240478 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did we have this < 1486240481 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1486240591 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! --help < 1486240592 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/--help: not found < 1486240597 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1486240609 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! help < 1486240610 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list. < 1486240620 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`botsnack < 1486240621 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​>:-D < 1486240634 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the --help was, actually, helpful for me... I did remember what ibin is :) < 1486240692 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste ibin/ < 1486240692 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/ibin < 1486240697 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url ibin/ < 1486240698 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/ibin < 1486240738 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : `paste tries `url first before doing any actual copying < 1486240759 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :giiiik < 1486240773 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: waaat? < 1486240778 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url /dev/null < 1486240778 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository. < 1486240787 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it checks that... < 1486240792 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url tmp/spout < 1486240793 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository. < 1486240796 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know! < 1486240804 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1486240811 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/url < 1486240812 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, os.path, re, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ f = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[1]) \ f = re.sub(r"^/+hackenv/", "", f) \ if re.match(r"/|(?:\.hg|tmp)(?:/|$)",f): \ sys.exit("File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository.") \ < 1486240818 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-frucdsaqqdcmtgvu JOIN :#esoteric < 1486240818 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1486240821 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo's (commands are) surprisingly intelligent sometimes. < 1486240824 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg ../bin/url < 1486240826 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8136:2016-05-25 ` sed -i \'8s/..hg/(?:&|tmp)/\' bin/url \ 8135:2016-05-25 revert 8132 \ 8133:2016-05-25 ` sed -i \'8s/.hg/(?:.hg|tmp)/\' bin/url \ 4607:2014-04-20 sed -i \'s/hg repository/web-viewable filesystem repository/\' bin/url \ 4606:2014-04-20 sed -i \'8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\\\\.hg( < 1486240833 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hth < 1486240834 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :clwver < 1486240879 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: making random noises < 1486240901 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd oerjan//s/clever/clwver/ < 1486240901 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan//Your wise @messages-lord fanfic oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Glasswegian who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it. < 1486240931 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity, no "clever" in there :P < 1486240947 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unlucky < 1486240955 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only you had a four-leaf clwver < 1486240995 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slashes (that's where this started, wasn't it?) shachaf with a four-leaf cleaver < 1486241028 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/swrjan < 1486241029 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slwd "oerjan//$1" < 1486241047 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...srsly < 1486241058 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits bin/swrjan < 1486241061 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachäf < 1486241079 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/shwshaf < 1486241080 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/shwshaf: No such file or directory < 1486241088 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/shwchaf < 1486241089 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: bin/shwchaf: No such file or directory < 1486241111 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make no sense. < 1486241113 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1486241114 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen Shachaf of the Dawn sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. He doesn't know when to stop asking questions. < 1486241120 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :swrjan stands for something like sed wisdom oerjan < 1486241179 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Would a bell pepper with a passion be a passion fruit? And how do you feel about bell peppers without any passion? < 1486241231 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradoxically, i'd imagine shachaf doesn't think bell peppers are passionate enough < 1486241241 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your reading is not supported by English grammar. < 1486241263 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe mine isn't. < 1486241265 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1486241278 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think english grammar is appropriately ambiguous < 1486241283 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the grammar supports it, it's only the semantic level that would usually preclude this interpretation. < 1486241335 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not one to comment on content. < 1486241337 0 :nal!~nal@adsl-64-237-236-126.prtc.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486241340 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because passionate fruits and vegetables are so rare. < 1486241369 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he hates tomatoes with an infection" < 1486241372 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's passable. < 1486241414 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( tomatoes are very passable ) < 1486241418 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's raining puns < 1486241439 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION passes int-e a slightly overripe tomato at high speed < 1486241455 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum! < 1486241547 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think this pun really works in english... I guess translating "tomato passata" as "passed tomatoes" would evoke unpleasant connotations) < 1486241577 0 :augur!~augur@2601:640:8001:4222:7c24:89d6:14be:fb2c QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486241606 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :puré tomato goodness < 1486241658 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: goes well with a cup of kopi luwak? < 1486241689 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not going to try either < 1486241735 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x55b3a100.dyn.telefonica.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1486241742 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486241758 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for English, I have a question. < 1486241809 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1486241816 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this short joke about the vet thinking the doctor has it easy because his patients can speak and tell him what the problem is why they went to the doctor or what symptoms they have. < 1486241884 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hungarian phrasing is: doctor: "Mi a panasza?" (which is a common thing for a doctor to asks when you go there without context), and the vet answers "Ja, úgy könnyű!" saying that the doctor has it easy. < 1486241894 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the idiomatic phrasing of that joke in English? < 1486241928 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( wait, what's the actual joke ) < 1486241958 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you translate the hungarian bits twh < 1486242003 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mi a panasza?" means "What is your complaint?" which is how a doctor asks an adult why you came to them when he doesn't already know what the problem is < 1486242039 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ja, hát úgy könnyű!" means "Oh, it's easy that way!" or something like that < 1486242051 0 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1486242123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1486242170 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the joke only works well if it's short, not a long explanation, which is why I don't know how to say it in English the best. < 1486242224 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The veterinarian wants to make the doctor's life harder by not answering questions. < 1486242239 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, he'll probably answer the question after that < 1486242246 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just exclaims that first < 1486242260 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in a joke but isn't stupid < 1486242270 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure he exists? < 1486242275 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Veterinarian was feeling ill and went to see her doctor. The doctor asked her all the usual questions: what were the symptoms, how long had they been occurring, etc. Suddenly, she interrupted him, "Hey look, I'm a vet... I don't need to ask my patients these kind of questions. I can tell what's wrong just by looking." She smugly added, "Why can't you?" < 1486242280 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The doctor nodded, stood back, looked her up and down, quickly wrote out a prescription, handed it to her and said, "There you are. Of course, if that doesn't work, we'll have to have you put to sleep." < 1486242284 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this version works for me. < 1486242319 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's a different one, yes. there are multiple jokes about vets and doctors < 1486242338 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486242353 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I just have no clue how to actually deliver the information required for your story so that there's a punchline. < 1486242368 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1486242401 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't remember having heard such a joke... not that this says a lot) < 1486242413 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The punchline is when one man punches the other. < 1486242423 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A man took his Rottweiler to the vet and said "My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?" "Well," said the vet, "lets have a look at him." So he picks the dog up and has a good look at its eyes. "Hmm, not good," says the vet, "I'm going to have to put him down." < 1486242428 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The owner was stunned, "Put him down just because he's cross-eyed?" "No, because he's heavy," says the vet. < 1486242444 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the other joke I found on the way that made me chuckle, at least. it's all I have for now.) < 1486242473 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1486242487 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I'm reminded of Pratchett's wisdom about horse doctors. < 1486242507 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read enough pratchett, so I don't know what that is < 1486242558 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The channel almost, but not entirely without esolang discussions | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1486242564 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cWSI < 1486242573 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transformation matrix of OpenGL is confusing why is there so many? Do you know how to do it to make the simple way (so that the top left corner is (0,0) and then it goes positive by integers per pixel)? < 1486242618 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you going to do with the z coordinate? < 1486242627 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see < 1486242648 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I do not need z-coordinate probably, but I do use the depth buffer though. < 1486242737 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the z-coordinate may be usable as an additional input to the shader program; I don't know if this can work or not. < 1486242789 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-71-178-160-63.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1486243034 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :glOrtho used to be the right thing but I haven't used OpenGL in this new everything-is-a-shader age where you're responsible for so much more. < 1486243080 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is slightly tempted to find a way to tweak the spam filter so the intro cannot be put at the start of the section < 1486243130 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has there been new spam? < 1486243132 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I can use glOrtho but what values should be specified, and what other thing is needed too? < 1486243162 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Stones14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50841&oldid=50823 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-1) 10 < 1486243195 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, but there have been new introductions < 1486243246 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50842&oldid=50833 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-1) 10Order! < 1486243250 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just the range of coordinates you want: https://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man2/xhtml/glOrtho.xml ... that should set up things so that afterwards specifying (2D, or 3D with a z coordinate) vertex coordinates in screen space should work. < 1486243390 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but then what do I need with glViewport and glMatrixMode and so on? < 1486243491 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know. I guess if I were jumping through the introduction hoop, that would not cause any terrible additional annoyance provided that this is clear and near impossible to miss from the instructions. < 1486243519 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but is it worth it? do you expect people to actually read through all the introductions? I mean anyone besides yourself... < 1486243600 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Silberjoder whoa < 1486243608 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well they have to avoid the other pitfalls described there already, and it _does_ already say to put it on the end. < 1486243615 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at < 1486243774 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: afair you need glViewPort to specify the area to be rendered to; but it sets up the transformation such that screen coordinates range from (-1,-1) (top-left, I think) to (1,1) (bottom right). So afterwards, you can use glOrtho to set up the transformation that you want without affecting the area being rendered to. But as I said before, this is outdated information. < 1486243792 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the main one people seem to have trouble with is not putting in external links. < 1486243808 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess a more relevant question is whether any of the recent additions would have been rejected by such a test. < 1486243820 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is also one that was put there _specifically_ to catch spammers) < 1486243852 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there are less than a handful who have put it at the beginning. < 1486243870 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do seem to happen occasionally. < 1486243880 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then i fix it) < 1486243909 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: and of course i'm mentioning this because there just was one. < 1486243911 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then how does it affect inputs to fragment programs? < 1486243953 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so put a reminder text at the start of the section. < 1486244000 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then adding such a check seems fair to me < 1486244027 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i was considering that. < 1486244052 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I had to remove the check that peopel had signed correctly < 1486244056 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because so many legitimate users didn't < 1486244060 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really disappointing, actually < 1486244252 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( making good CAPTCHAs is hard not because spammer programs are smart, but because humans are stupid ) < 1486244286 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot be the first to note that. < 1486244286 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1486244360 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded to https://www.xkcd.com/810/ and https://www.xkcd.com/233/ of course < 1486244420 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd fail the latter, never having seen that. < 1486244435 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :810 is an approach that's too hard for humans, 233 is one that's too easy for machines < 1486244483 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a bot passed a fairly large turing-test tournament, it did so by pretending to be a ukrainian teenager < 1486244502 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which automatically caused people to give it a pass on things like bad english and no knowledge of American pop culture < 1486244525 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember that < 1486244573 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it scott aaronson who tried it and found it easy to beat < 1486244595 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in that case too, it was because humans stupid - including the judges < 1486244600 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+are < 1486244627 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: 1Jq.+10!C < 1486244640 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice < 1486244646 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cheap.int-e.eu/~burlesque/burlesque.cgi?q=1Jq.%2B46%21C < 1486244667 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main conclusion was that the Turing test doesn't actually work < 1486244673 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's not a fibonacci builtin) < 1486244696 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: *reminded of < 1486244719 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1486244780 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1486244780 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1486244840 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it _could_ work but (1) the judge would need to be competent (2) a passing program would need a full fake human backstory < 1486244853 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: meh, I googled a bit. AFAIU, vertex shaders convert coordinates into "normalized device coordinates" (that's a cube [-1..1]^3) with all fragments outside the range being dropped; the input to the fragment shader includes window (that is, device) coordinates of the fragment though, obtained using data from glViewPort. < 1486244893 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx < 1486244893 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative < 1486244897 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's making unreasonable demands of the program, unless it's only using stupid humans as judges < 1486244907 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why should Eliza not be able to pass a captcha? :P < 1486244935 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero < 1486244936 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative number \ dc: value overflows simple integer; punting... \ dc: scale must be a nonnegative < 1486244940 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero < 1486244940 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `dc: not found < 1486244944 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` dc -e1d[pdk+Krlxx]dsxx 2>/dev/zero < 1486244944 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031 < 1486244945 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb < 1486245012 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck+314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50843 5* 03Ivancr72 5* (+1195) 10Created page with "Brainfuck+3 is like [[brainfuck]] but it has a bidimensional space and it has 3 more commands. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description |- | style="text-align:c..." < 1486245046 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ruby -ex=i=1;loop{p x+=i=x-i} < 1486245046 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found < 1486245383 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Gotta go < 1486245406 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=50844 5* 03Ivancr72 5* (+452) 10Created page with "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck is a derivate of [[Brainfuck+3]] but with lenny faces. ==Commands== + ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
- (♥ ͜ʖ♥)
./dev/null # tweak < 1486245533 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ < 1486245571 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you can replace zz by 1 if you don't care about the 0 or empty stack errors) < 1486245621 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Ivancr7214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50846&oldid=50635 5* 03Ivancr72 5* (+47) 10 < 1486245639 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need knowledge about american pop culture to be considered human? < 1486245643 0 :Guest78015!?@? NICK :L3viathan < 1486245670 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: good question, wait, there was a discussion of this < 1486245676 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to find it < 1486245688 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Blablafuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50847&oldid=50697 5* 03Ivancr72 5* (+6) 10 < 1486245704 0 :VisualizeR!~404@x4db40163.dyn.telefonica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1486245704 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although turing test doesn't really test if you're human. < 1486245714 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon intelligent aliens would pass the test too. < 1486245725 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` dc -e1[dKp+rklxx]dsxx 2>/dev/null # actually one char less now < 1486245726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 \ 1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ < 1486245874 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)fuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50848&oldid=50844 5* 03Ivancr72 5* (+64) 10 < 1486245914 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :60% thought cleverbot is human < 1486245920 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is wrong with these humans. < 1486245946 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hu < 1486245953 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 63.3% of humans were identified as humans < 1486245954 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1486245983 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Out of the 334 votes cast, Cleverbot was judged to be 59.3% human, compared to the rating of 63.3% human achieved by human participants." < 1486246002 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it one of those bots that emulated a teenager? < 1486246007 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1486246016 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cleverbot.com let's you chat with it online < 1486246029 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you need more than one minute to see if it's a bot. < 1486246055 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It is still confusing to me a bit. If I will use vertex program and fragment program, what do the different inputs and outputs of those programs do? < 1486246057 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Face it, we cannot reliably tell fungot apart from the channel's less silicon blessed residents at all times. < 1486246057 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there are fnord < 1486246073 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fungot isn't even trying to pass itself off as human. < 1486246073 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thankfully you can click at part of the problem, so silly a redundancy < 1486246102 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, what do texture coordinates do? < 1486246108 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/9ZFq88xe <- it just takes a single question < 1486246252 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/P4AjtUca <- either those humans were incredibly morons or they didn't participate with their online version in the test. < 1486246253 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/3285.html and its discussion thread http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=7411 < 1486246267 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@icon-thinkpad.wireless.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1486246272 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fc52:d3a:d892:70ac QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486246274 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : myndzi. <-- i think \oren\ makes a better cyborg these days. < 1486246281 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first two answers are completely out of context. < 1486246300 0 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@icon-thinkpad.wireless.rit.edu QUIT :Client Quit < 1486246316 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there transcripts from those turing tests available? < 1486246533 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although Cleverbot managed to score well on the Turing test, the model that did that is different from the one you’ll find online." < 1486246555 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so, because the online version is pretty dumb. < 1486246712 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trick is to not ask them yes/no questions. < 1486246732 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are decently good at detecting yes/no question and answer randomly with either. < 1486246789 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you ask a yes/no question for which a random answer would be suspicious? < 1486246795 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least half the time < 1486246803 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for which both yes and no would be bad answers < 1486246808 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1486246879 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you need to reference previous things you've said. < 1486247046 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like "Lookt at my last sentence. Pick the worth word in that sentence which is a verb. Please tell me the simple past of that verb." < 1486247058 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fourth < 1486247139 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To identify a bot you need to know what a bot can't. < 1486247160 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ask people to identify a bot who don't know how bot works < 1486247169 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: f*ck you I'm not doing your grammar homework for you! < 1486247170 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chances are much higher that they'll think it's not a bot. < 1486247170 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4BF3B.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1486247174 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: thought you put in the misspellings on purpose :P < 1486247208 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no. It's kinda funny but these things happen all the time to me. < 1486247218 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write stuff "pseudo-phonetically" < 1486247227 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has met actual humans that fail parts of the turing test < 1486247241 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym sudo-foneticly hth < 1486247263 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: itym < 1486247267 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? worth is pseudo-phonetical? < 1486247279 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda. < 1486247284 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reading: ity[are]m) < 1486247285 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also write does <-> those < 1486247289 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't pseudo-phonetical when you write sign instead of sine? < 1486247313 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands int-e his evil overlord card < 1486247314 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's late. Gonna hit the hay. < 1486247326 0 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does it bite? < 1486247343 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stupid friend told me to inform him when I go climbing again so he can join < 1486247353 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that apparentely was an empty promise. < 1486247366 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: that's a promise? < 1486247373 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: a balm does, yes < 1486247380 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ooh, good idea < 1486247401 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a promise to join me, yes. < 1486247418 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's not even responding. < 1486247477 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I kind need to know... I don't like it when people only commit on the actual day it was planned. < 1486247481 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cancel on the day it was planned. < 1486247487 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rude. < 1486247499 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disrupts my workout regime. < 1486247600 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I had to go shopping today waiting for him to answer. < 1486247603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1486247606 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanted to buy a suit. < 1486247609 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit is too expensive though. < 1486247612 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 bucks < 1486247622 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to think if that's actually worth it. < 1486247669 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a weird body shape. < 1486247669 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :too expensive? < 1486247670 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :suit yourself < 1486247679 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't buy clothes without having to tailor them. < 1486247717 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my arms and legs are shorter than other peoples. < 1486247722 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*people's < 1486247727 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1486247737 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 bucks is probably a reasonable price for a tailored suit < 1486247749 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that's likely average price for that kind of quality. < 1486247799 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no specific use for a suit other than that I currently don't have one and wanted to see what the fuzz is abut. < 1486247801 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1486247854 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need a suit if you work as a lawyer or in a bank or insurance company < 1486247861 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise nobody needs a suit. < 1486247886 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 600 bucks is too much to ruin it < 1486247888 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: not quite. it's useful to have a suit when you're invited to other people's weddings < 1486247901 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/when/if/ < 1486247902 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not getting invited to weddings. < 1486247918 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My own brother doesn't even say hi to me < 1486247919 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1486247922 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but many people who aren't lawyers or work in a bank are < 1486247948 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's zero people who would invite me to weddings. < 1486247951 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----### < 1486247953 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or birthday parties < 1486247958 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much anything. < 1486247964 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1486248006 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I went out was more than 2 years ago. < 1486248030 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :like out of the house? < 1486248039 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1486248041 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the total amount of times I went out I can count with two hands. < 1486248049 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1486248050 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheltered... < 1486248054 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I leave home everyday for work < 1486248072 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and climbing < 1486248074 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1486248077 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly climbing and work tho < 1486248078 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alercah: or have a really big house, like Wonko the Sane does < 1486248107 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doctor appointments < 1486248152 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I face orofacial dyskinesia < 1486248159 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1486248159 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean indoor climbing? < 1486248163 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I have < 1486248174 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orofa... what? < 1486248182 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok oerjan what actually happens is that my brain skips to the next word and then mangles words together < 1486248185 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? < 1486248200 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I end up writing "I face" orofacial instead of "I have" < 1486248224 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: It means my facial muscles are doing shit they are not supposed to < 1486248238 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chronic orofacial pain < 1486248254 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1486248275 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They move without me commanding them < 1486248427 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have many friend. < 1486248444 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because I'm very good at sensing if people actually like me or just tolerate me. < 1486248497 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I'm not very narcissistic I don't give a shit about attention from people who tolerate me < 1486248561 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's a BPD trait < 1486248562 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows. < 1486248574 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or SPD. < 1486248664 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not really good at anything and not traditionally attractive at all < 1486248674 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people usually don't want to be friends anyway < 1486248693 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what sort of climbing? indoor climbing? < 1486248698 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indoor < 1486248720 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bouldering < 1486248726 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but climbing only indoor so far. < 1486248802 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried indoor climbing only once, and didn't enjoy it, so I never went back < 1486248817 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least I can understand why other people want to do it < 1486248847 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's challenging. < 1486248861 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first few times it feels like freedom. < 1486248868 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but currently it has become more of a challenge < 1486248873 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "I wanna climb better grades" < 1486248901 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a very niche sport around here < 1486248903 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot of people < 1486248926 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anybody who climbs < 1486248931 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1486248937 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that common < 1486248944 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm limited to the routes with those Toppas devices < 1486248953 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow a lot of people started to do squash (sport) < 1486248972 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toppas devices? < 1486249028 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that's some sort of rope holding thing, if I understand right < 1486249033 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1486249038 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at the top of the wall < 1486249061 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a mechanism that slows your fall to 1m/s < 1486249095 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: can't you also go to indoor climbing spaces that don't have ropes but are not very tall and have a thick padded mat on the floor? that's the kind of place I was at when I tried. so if you fall, you don't fall from too high, and don't hurt yourself much (usually). < 1486249105 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: that's called bouldering < 1486249108 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, I do that. < 1486249112 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1486249221 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.hoehenpass.de/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/560x560/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/o/toppas_1.png <- that's a toppas < 1486249242 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the top of the wall with a rope attached so you can pull it down, hook it up to your climbing belt (probably not the correct term) < 1486249257 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it always pulls the rope in so when you climb upwards it will pull the rope in < 1486249281 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 PRIVMSG #esoteric :climbing harness? < 1486249287 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you fall it will slowling unwind the rope with about 1m/s < 1486249290 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. harness. < 1486249325 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're tired from climbing it gets hard to even pull the thing down :) < 1486249360 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's always an upwards force pulling the rope back up < 1486249368 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to pull it down against that force :D < 1486249434 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why people once they have pulled it down fix it to a carabiner at the bottom of the wall. < 1486249447 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are two systems in use actually < 1486249462 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one where the carabiner from the toppas is at the top with a small rope attached to it so you have to pull the thing down < 1486249489 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and system 2 is where it's already pulled down and hooked with carabiners on the floor < 1486249499 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you unhook it, climb up, fall down, hook it to the floor again < 1486249516 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with that is if some moron forgets to hook it to the floor the whole thing is pulled to the top < 1486249520 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a crane :D < 1486249561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486249566 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some routes have similar devices < 1486249584 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"snatch pulley"? < 1486249620 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a machine so you need a human partner but the device makes you lighter to like 10% of your actual weight < 1486249635 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the one who is protecting you from falling down needs very little force < 1486249654 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rope is already on the wall < 1486249664 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly for children though. < 1486249711 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... good night. < 1486249716 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really need some sleep now. < 1486249726 0 :mroman!5504dd14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.4.221.20 QUIT :Quit: zzZzZzzZz < 1486250147 0 :carado!~carado@2001:41d0:d:9ef::1:16 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1486250551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1486250576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1486250576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250657 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, HTH is also a brand of kitchens <-- i've got hth < 1486250671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1486250695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1486250695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1486250875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc104862-sgyl39-2-0-cust65.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1486250875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486250892 0 :wob_jonas!59858794@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.133.135.148 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1486250942 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brand of kittens?! < 1486251026 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwno. < 1486251040 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1486251105 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you recommend hth brand kitchens? < 1486251207 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it slightly unnerving that i cannot find the plugs for the fridge and freezer < 1486251281 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i considered defrosting the freezer recently, but i don't know how to do it without using the circuit breaker < 1486251307 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i hope it doesn't really need defrosting, the buildup isn't _that_ great) < 1486251349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1486251361 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i don't really have an idea, it came with the apartment. < 1486251389 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you recommend your apartment? < 1486251408 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the ventilation is far too noisy < 1486251436 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the positive things about my apartment are the location and the price < 1486251464 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest ranges from ok to scow < 1486251473 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are the important things anyway? < 1486251478 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also my bedroom is next to the building staircase/elevator. < 1486251495 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe norway is no cheaper than berkeley < 1486251498 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is sometimes annoying, but not that often. < 1486251513 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know... < 1486251523 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1486251541 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I stick around CA or go somewhere else? < 1486251573 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to sri lanka and become a fisherman hth < 1486251585 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not into fishing tdnh < 1486251607 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNACCEPTABLE < 1486251610 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(me neither) < 1486251622 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1486251676 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also not into other people fishing < 1486251692 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1486251715 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( shachaf is working for the fish people ) < 1486252049 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1486252174 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@bowserinator.tk JOIN :#esoteric < 1486252205 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@bowserinator.tk QUIT :Changing host < 1486252205 0 :Bowserinator!~Bowser@unaffiliated/bowserinator JOIN :#esoteric