←2017-02-12 2017-02-13 2017-02-14→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:38:51 <oerjan> `url quotes
00:38:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
00:39:12 <shachaf> `quoerjan
00:39:13 <HackEgo> 1034) <oerjan> this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam.
00:39:15 <oerjan> `quote 1310
00:39:16 <HackEgo> 1310) <fungot> boily: i haven't cited these because i don't understand how to program without becoming a rainbow
00:39:26 <oerjan> `cat bin/pastequotes
00:39:27 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste
00:40:44 <oerjan> `sled bin/pastequotes//s,; e.*, | paste; else url quotes; fi,
00:40:46 <HackEgo> bin/pastequotes//#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1" | paste; else url quotes; fi
00:41:01 <oerjan> `pastequotes
00:41:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes
00:41:17 <oerjan> it's got line numbers anyway
00:42:09 <oerjan> although i suppose the raw version won't.
00:43:11 <oerjan> i guess we can revert if anyone complains.
00:43:23 <shachaf> oerjan: Physical spam is not covered by CAN-SPAM. :-(
00:43:41 <oerjan> what's CAN-SPAM
00:44:08 <oerjan> in norway, you can avoid most physical spam by putting a little sticker on your mailbox saying you don't want it.
00:44:09 <shachaf> US law regulating commercial email.
00:44:23 <shachaf> It requires things like opt-out links.
00:44:45 <oerjan> although that's because the way norwegian mail ads work, they aren't usually personally addressed.
00:44:56 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#The_mechanics_of_CAN-SPAM
00:45:01 <shachaf> I suspect you benefit from it too?
00:45:03 <oerjan> so they just dump a copy into every mailbox that doesn't have the sticker.
00:45:35 <shachaf> I think the US postal service is primarily funded by spam or something.
00:46:00 <oerjan> i dunno. i'm generally assuming spam is so fishy that clicking any links in it, including opt-out links, will make it worse.
00:46:28 <shachaf> Well, blatant spam won't care about CAN-SPAM anyway.
00:46:38 <oerjan> right
00:46:47 <shachaf> But if you get signed up to some semi-legitimate mailing list "accidentally", you can remove yourself.
00:47:10 <oerjan> the problem is, how do you know it's semi-legitimate
00:47:41 <shachaf> For example, it's sent from a company that you ordered something from once.
00:47:59 <fizzie> I've been told that here in the UK, you can't opt out of Royal Mail delivering those ads that are addressed to generic terms like "The Occupant" or "The Homeowner".
00:48:09 <shachaf> Or a theatre where you went to see a play once and made the mistake of providing your email address?
00:48:34 <oerjan> i'm not sure norwegian mail is much ad-funded, as it seems to me _most_ mailboxes (but not all) have the stickers.
00:48:43 <shachaf> fizzie: But you're not the homeowner, are you?
00:48:54 <shachaf> Or did you buy that prime London real estate you were eyeing?
00:48:55 <fizzie> No, but I still throw those in the trash.
00:49:33 <fizzie> "Opting out of Royal Mail's Door to Door service -- The opt out service only relates to unaddressed mail. Royal Mail is still legally obliged to deliver all addressed mail, which includes mail that is addressed “To the Occupier” (or with any other generic recipient information), as well as mail that is personally addressed to you by name."
00:49:59 <oerjan> . o O ( someone might try to sue the royal mail for environmental damage )
00:50:00 <fizzie> I'd guesstimate half of the physical spam we get is of that type.
00:50:10 <fizzie> The other half is things like pizza delivery company ads.
00:50:31 <oerjan> fizzie: oh. so it still needs your actual _address_, but they don't need to know your name?
00:50:41 <fizzie> Right.
00:51:01 <shachaf> My information is apparently available via voter registration records. Kind of scow if you ask me.
00:51:14 <shachaf> I got a bunch of mail saying I hadn't voted yet and therefore I should vote for X and Y.
00:51:19 <shachaf> I guess that's an incentive to vote early.
00:51:44 <oerjan> i don't think political ads are covered by the stickers :P
00:51:47 <shachaf> i,i vote early and vote often
00:52:20 <fizzie> Here there's something called the electoral roll (or register), which you have to be on, but you can opt out of the "open register", which is the subset they sell to advertisers.
00:52:49 <shachaf> Berkeley, CA is rather unrepresentative of the country as a whole, voting-wise.
00:53:27 <fizzie> We got that governmental Brexit leaflet even though we weren't allowed to vote in the referendum.
00:53:39 <shachaf> Who's we?
00:53:59 <fizzie> Myself and my wife.
00:54:19 <shachaf> i,i http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html
00:54:33 <Jafet> perhaps you were being advised to make a brexit
00:54:51 <fizzie> "brexit" is probably a keyword in some language.
00:55:01 <oerjan> `? brexit
00:55:02 <HackEgo> brexit is a command to forcefully exit, releasing 1GB of free space.
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00:55:22 <fizzie> I would assume it's like break, except exit if there's no enclosing scope to break.
00:55:24 <oerjan> helloily
00:55:37 <boily> hellørjan!
00:55:40 <boily> @metar CYUL
00:55:40 <lambdabot> CYUL 130042Z 07011KT 1SM R06L/P6000FT/D R06R/P6000FT/D -SN DRSN OVC016 M03/M05 A2970 RMK SN2ST6 SLP062
00:55:48 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
00:55:49 <lambdabot> EGLL 130050Z AUTO 08012KT 3200 HZ BKN009 05/04 Q1023
00:55:50 <boily> mon cul que -SN.
00:56:02 <boily> it's a fungotting snowstorm outside.
00:56:03 <fungot> boily: 4.4 megs of articles, that's like so rare.
00:56:10 <boily> fungot: 4.4 tons of snow, you mean.
00:56:11 <fungot> boily: how do you escape parens with sexprs? is it used? something like that safely, but it likes to manufacture ' tension'.
00:56:14 <fizzie> Here it's apparently 3.2 kilohertz of weather.
00:56:28 <shachaf> Apparently my information is at least 10 years out of date.
00:56:46 <fizzie> Yeah, it's not a new thing.
00:56:48 <oerjan> shachaf: fizzie being married isn't exactly news.
00:57:19 <boily> fizzie's married?
00:57:30 <shachaf> I guess it's come up many times before.
00:57:44 <fizzie> I've got our wedding photo in the Finnish IRC user registry, you know.
00:58:21 <shachaf> `quote wife
00:58:23 <oerjan> on the other hand, he _is_ the only person on the channel that i remember being married. although i remember there _are_ others.
00:59:18 <shachaf> There are others here.
00:59:21 <shachaf> And there have been more.
00:59:40 <boily> I think Roujo is married. at least last time I heard about him.
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01:00:15 <shachaf> HackEgo: hmph
01:00:15 <oerjan> (at least this part of) norway is having one of those strange winter dry spells again
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01:00:22 <shachaf> `quote wife
01:00:23 <HackEgo> 932) <fizzie> The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree
01:00:41 <shachaf> `2 quote wife
01:00:42 <HackEgo> 2/2:ne one in Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?)
01:00:53 <fizzie> I vaguely remember that.
01:01:15 <shachaf> `cat bin/1
01:01:16 <HackEgo> ​\` "$@" |& sport
01:01:33 <shachaf> oerjan: There should be a version of sport that only uses spam if some text wouldn't fit into one line.
01:01:37 <shachaf> And then quote should use it?
01:01:45 <shachaf> Or maybe people should just not use long quotes.
01:02:58 <shachaf> <fizzie> What I do is in this sort of arguments (well, usually it's my wife claiming some word I'm using is not a "proper word"), I write a convincing-looking web page and open it as file:/// in my browser.
01:03:39 <fizzie> To be entirely honest, I've only done that once or twice, and it has so far failed to convince.
01:04:00 <shachaf> The cool kids use data:
01:04:25 <shachaf> Like this: https://www.wordfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/dataURI.png
01:04:27 <fizzie> I can never remember how the syntax goes.
01:04:29 <shachaf> Very convincing.
01:04:41 <shachaf> data:mime/type,content
01:05:19 <shachaf> Unless you want base64 or something.
01:05:37 <fizzie> Yeah, it's the comma vs. semicolon thing.
01:05:51 <fizzie> Because then it's data:mime/type;base64,data.
01:05:55 <shachaf> Right.
01:06:00 <shachaf> Do you use Google 2-Step Verification?
01:06:13 <fizzie> Yes, with the Authenticator app.
01:06:34 <shachaf> What would you do if you were traveling and all your possessions were stolen?
01:06:50 <fizzie> Curse a little, I think.
01:06:58 <shachaf> In which language?
01:07:09 <fizzie> I can only do it well in Finnish.
01:07:52 <fizzie> I don't have anything too important tied to my Google account, I don't think.
01:07:59 <shachaf> It's my primary email account.
01:08:08 <shachaf> Therefore it's nearly every Internet account I have.
01:08:46 <shachaf> I decided to memorize two backup codes.
01:09:04 <shachaf> I wonder whether I should memorize my TOTP secret instead?
01:09:25 <fizzie> I don't have a good backup strategy for the things I actually use, because they require an SSH key.
01:11:21 <fizzie> And a pretty special port-knocking thing too, I'm not sure I could write that from scratch either.
01:13:58 <boily> can you chain and compose curses together in Finnish?
01:15:55 <shachaf> That reminds me: How should I generate passwords from a master password and per-account name?
01:18:07 <fizzie> boily: I don't think you can in a particularly special way. I mean, you can list several without having any grammar to tie them together, and it sounds quite natural.
01:18:28 <fizzie> shachaf: I thought some hashing was usually involved.
01:18:35 <shachaf> Yes.
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01:18:57 <shachaf> If my master password is good, is there a benefit to using a slow hash function like bcrypt?
01:19:33 <shachaf> What sort of alphabet should my per-account passwords consist of? Maybe just /[a-z]+/?
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01:19:50 <shachaf> How should I generate a password from the output of whatever hash function?
01:21:36 <fizzie> I wonder if base62 might be a good idea.
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01:22:39 <shachaf> What's the benefit of uppercase letters?
01:23:16 <shachaf> Well, the benefit is more entropy for a given length. But is it worth the cost?
01:23:35 <fizzie> I guess it depends on whether you have to type those passwords or not.
01:23:45 <shachaf> Harder to remember, much longer if you count shift as a keystroke, harder to type on a phone...
01:23:57 <shachaf> I type some passwords out.
01:25:48 <shachaf> For example, say you generate a 15-character lowercase password.
01:25:55 <oerjan> . o O ( du dævern hain steike førbainna ijnn i svarte hælvete kor vi nordlændinga kainn kjed sammen bainnord )
01:25:56 <shachaf> > logBase 2 (26^15)
01:25:58 <lambdabot> 70.50659577211638
01:26:26 <shachaf> If you allow upercase letters, that's just one bit per character.
01:26:28 <shachaf> > logBase 2 (52^15)
01:26:31 <lambdabot> 85.50659577211638
01:26:39 <shachaf> > logBase 2 (26^27)
01:26:41 <shachaf> Er.
01:26:42 <lambdabot> 126.9118723898095
01:26:43 <shachaf> > logBase 2 (26^17)
01:26:46 <lambdabot> 79.90747520839858
01:26:50 <shachaf> > logBase 2 (26^18)
01:26:52 <lambdabot> 84.60791492653966
01:27:03 <shachaf> So you could get the same entropy with ~3 more letters.
01:27:52 <fizzie> Yes, if you type them it might not be worth it. Although a number of sites insist on having at least one uppercase letter and one digit.
01:28:17 <shachaf> Yes, but you can get around that requirement with a mechanical transformation of the password.
01:28:32 <shachaf> No need to remember a more complicated password.
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01:34:11 <boily> `relcome ChatSharp
01:34:12 <HackEgo> ChatSharp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:34:25 <shachaf> ChatsHarp?
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01:35:26 <boily> Cat Harp.
01:36:04 <shachaf> un cabot
01:36:10 * quintopia plays it
01:36:15 <fizzie> How to play the autoharp.
01:36:49 <fizzie> I can't remember where that's from.
01:37:20 <shachaf> `? fizzie
01:37:21 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary king of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
01:37:57 <shachaf> `slwd fizzie//s.king.prime minister.
01:37:59 <fizzie> Google is not being helpful. I think it was some other song that mentioned the autoharp.
01:37:59 <HackEgo> fizzie//fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
01:39:31 <boily> if fizzie ain't royal anymore, who's the new king?
01:40:14 <shachaf> fizzie is a republican, i think
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01:41:46 <quintopia> s:\
01:42:41 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA:\>
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01:46:08 <quintopia> hi dur
01:46:10 <quintopia> what do
01:47:59 <boily> guzzling diet coke.
01:49:02 <oerjan> `? #esoteric
01:49:03 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's a 7-codimensional hyperenchilada about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. Currently located in the Atlantis Exclusion Zone.
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02:35:02 <erkin> yes helo
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03:06:53 <\oren\> Imminent flood in california, sacramento
03:12:45 <zzo38> Hello
03:12:56 <shachaf> immanent eschaton
03:13:45 <zzo38> This is another idea of making a Magic: the Gathering card: 1/1 ;; Defender, Banding ;; Combat damage dealt to ~ is redirected to you.
03:15:14 <erkin> yes
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03:17:46 <zzo38> What are your opinion of it?
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03:51:11 <zzo38> Do you know why sometimes the pixel clock of the display on my computer is sometimes unexpectedly altered and/or unstable today?
03:51:48 <zzo38> Sorry, I mean the phase
03:52:04 <zzo38> The clock is proper.
03:52:55 <erkin> Maybe it's a fluctuation in time.
03:53:38 <oerjan> http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html
03:53:45 <oerjan> oops
03:53:58 <oerjan> stupid touchpad paste
03:54:38 * oerjan tries not to leave newlines in the buffer, but forgets
03:55:29 <\oren\> bf
03:55:31 <\oren\> fer
03:55:34 <\oren\> ing
03:58:04 <zzo38> erkin: I don't think so?
03:58:22 <erkin> Never be so sure.
04:04:01 <zzo38> I can't be quite sure, but still I don't think so.
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04:11:42 <zzo38> I found the mention of a infinite chess game with one piece that can jump any prime distance.
04:25:32 <erkin> Do you win by getting the king off the chessboard?
04:31:33 <zzo38> I would think you win by checkmating your opponent's king, like you do in FIDE.
04:31:53 <erkin> Unthinkable.
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05:37:00 <\oren\> does anyone know about tic tac toe on an infinite plane?
05:39:42 <\oren\> can the O player force a tie as in regular tic tac toe?
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05:41:00 <\oren\> wait, no. Can the O player prevent X from winning indefinitely?
05:42:29 <erkin> Can they keep each other from winning indefinitely?
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05:48:35 <zzo38> I don't know?
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05:59:46 <sirnaysayer> on an infinite plane no one can win tic-tac-toe since the winning conditions can never be met
06:00:05 <oerjan> \oren\: 3-in-a-row is a win for the first player if there are enough rows and columns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M,n,k-game
06:01:24 <oerjan> and only limited information for 4- up to 8- in a row.
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06:09:39 <erkin> Ooh
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06:45:02 <zzo38> When are you going to invent the Checkout preprocessor?
06:45:32 <zzo38> Also I think the trigonometry functions should be added on too
06:47:20 <kmc> hello everyone
06:47:24 <kmc> it's been a long time
06:47:35 <oerjan> kmc!
06:47:38 <kmc> hi oerjan
06:48:08 <erkin> hello
06:49:58 <oerjan> `relcome kmc
06:50:00 <HackEgo> kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
06:50:09 <kmc> ty
06:51:38 <kmc> i heard that limit hold 'em poker is ~solved
06:52:10 <olsner> are you back? were you gone? welcome anyway
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06:55:22 <zzo38> I have seen a AI for limit hold'em poker, and I tried to play and won by a very small number of points (and I am not very good at poker anyways), so I think it isn't quite solved. Anyways I think usually it is no-limit that is played (and I rarely see anything about pot-limit; is that game so uncommon?)
06:56:45 <kmc> how does pot limit work?
06:58:05 <zzo38> The limit of the raise is the amount currently in the pot (including previous betting rounds) plus the amount needed to call.
06:58:16 <kmc> okay
06:58:32 <kmc> > 16:59 < oerjan> on the other hand, he _is_ the only person on the channel that i remember being married. although i remember there _are_ others.
06:58:35 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:34: error: parse error on input ‘,’
06:58:37 <kmc> i'm married too!
07:01:02 <pikhq_> I'm married as well!
07:01:15 <pikhq_> ... Though that's also been for a week, so.
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07:03:12 <zzo38> I intend to never be marry
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07:04:56 <erkin> I intend to never be merry.
07:07:09 -!- impomatic_ has changed nick to impomatic.
07:14:30 <zzo38> A variant of poker game I have never seen is to play spread-limit before the flop and pot-limit after the flop.
07:14:50 <kmc> pikhq_: congrats!
07:16:53 <zzo38> Another way I have thought of is like Texas Hold'em but also involving a few of the features of One Poker.
07:18:16 <kmc> how does One Poker work?
07:19:12 <zzo38> One Poker is played as following: Each player gets two cards face-down. Each player knows how many of his two cards are high cards (higher means 89TJQKA). And then, each player picks one card to play (secretly), and then you bet. If nobody folds, the higher card wins, except that a deuce beats an ace (but loses to anything else). Afterward, the card you chose not to play you keep and you get dealt one more card to replenish to two cards, and you st
07:19:46 <zzo38> s/knows how many of his two cards/knows how many of his opponent's two cards/
07:19:58 <kmc> that's weird
07:20:15 <kmc> I've lately been trying to understand NMR physics
07:21:07 <zzo38> (Your own cards you of course know exactly what they are. Also, suits are irrelevant in One Poker.)
07:21:14 <zzo38> What is NMR physics?
07:21:29 <kmc> nuclear magnetic resonance
07:22:22 <zzo38> OK
07:25:37 <zzo38> (Also in One Poker, the card you play is exposed after betting even if you or your opponent folds.)
07:25:40 <shachaf> hi kmc
07:25:51 <shachaf> relcome back
07:26:30 <kmc> hi shachaf
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07:43:03 <\oren\> I wonder if sacramento is being washed into the pacific
07:48:40 <\oren\> shachaf: do you have any info on this big flood that's happening
07:50:10 <kmc> 180,000 people ordered to evacuate but do they have a designated place to go?
07:55:01 <kmc> I wonder why my machine renders Han characters as Hangul
07:55:06 <kmc> I guess the fonts are very messed up
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07:58:57 <\oren\> maybe it's a font that is made for EUC-KR but is being treated as if it were for EUC-CN? can that happen?
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08:34:43 <shachaf> kmc: did you see all the advances in HackEgo technology
08:34:46 <shachaf> `? shaventions
08:34:47 <HackEgo> Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
08:35:17 <shachaf> `slwd shavention//s.invented.did not invent.
08:35:19 <HackEgo> shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb did not invent them.
08:39:03 <shachaf> `sedlast s/.$/ yet&/
08:39:05 <HackEgo> wisdom/shavention//Shaventions include: before/now/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb did not invent them yet.
08:43:24 <shachaf> \oren\: Not much.
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11:42:57 <boily> `wisdom
11:42:58 <HackEgo> yeeeeeeeesh//See yeeeeeeesh.
11:43:05 <boily> `wisdom
11:43:06 <HackEgo> jit//JIT is just in time.
11:43:15 <boily> `? time
11:43:15 <HackEgo> time? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:43:53 <b_jonas> time is an illusion,
11:46:27 <boily> lunchtime doubly so.
11:47:37 <b_jonas> fungot, what's the time?
11:47:37 <fungot> b_jonas: i wonder how some people abuse the word ' thereby' abused so hideously atrociously.) of the whole screen... pretty small but very portable.
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13:13:20 <Taneb> `? algebraic geometry
13:13:21 <HackEgo> Algebraic geometry is so complicated that Taneb had to take an exam in it before he could invent it.
13:13:27 <Taneb> I got 79% in that exam :)
13:18:33 <b_jonas> Taneb: great
13:18:51 <b_jonas> Now you can learn other difficult mathematics topics that you can then invent
13:23:22 <Taneb> :)
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13:36:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50939&oldid=50930 * Douira * (+102) formatting
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13:45:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50940&oldid=50939 * Douira * (+469) added some examples
13:52:42 <Taneb> Gonna need 85% on average in my summer exams and dissertation to get a first
14:04:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50941&oldid=50940 * Douira * (+561) more examples
14:04:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50942&oldid=50941 * Douira * (+1) typo
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14:51:57 <zzo38> If I will make new mahjong game on computer, what will they be call?
14:53:05 <zzo38> (according to your expectation)
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15:14:21 <kmc> good morning all
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15:34:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know. I don't think you have a theme naming for your software like ais does
15:38:26 <zzo38> If you have a suggestion that I like then I can use the suggestion though
15:49:40 <zzo38> Do you have the idea of it?
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16:06:10 <b_jonas> `? lie group
16:06:10 <HackEgo> lie group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:08:28 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31C0KdvO2Ns
16:09:17 <\oren\> a lie group is a organization devoted to disinforming the public
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16:46:11 <\oren\> today trump is meeting trudeau. hopefully trump realizes we didn't take usa's jobs
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17:04:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50943&oldid=50942 * Douira * (+6) styling
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17:11:35 <rdococ> are there problems other than the halting problem that a turing machine can't solve?
17:12:49 <oerjan> see rice's theorem
17:13:30 <oerjan> and also all the myriad of problems that can _emulate_ the halting problem of a turing machine.
17:15:06 <oerjan> e.g. post correspondence theorem, ambiguity of a context-free grammar, various "is this term well-typed in this typing system"...
17:16:05 <oerjan> but they all probably reduce either to the halting problem itself, or to a similar diagonalization.
17:16:27 <oerjan> *post correspondence problem
17:16:55 <shachaf> There are problems that are harder than the halting problem, of course.
17:17:05 <oerjan> hm right
17:17:16 <shachaf> I suppose that still counts as "similar diagonalization".
17:17:23 <oerjan> or as "reduction"
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17:19:13 <oerjan> well, obviously wikipedia has a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undecidable_problems
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17:23:15 <rdococ> a rice oracle would also be able to solve the "Entscheidungsproblem" right?
17:23:38 <rdococ> honestly its mere pronounciation is a problem
17:23:58 <oerjan> you just need a halting oracle for that, i think
17:24:11 <oerjan> let your program be a search for a proof
17:24:17 <rdococ> oh yeah
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17:26:42 <oerjan> . o O ( but German spelling is far more logical than English... )
17:27:12 <oerjan> not _entirely_ logical, though.
17:27:53 <oerjan> (there are several different ways of marking whether a vowel is long or short - and still some vowels aren't marked )
17:28:03 <rdococ> ik but I'm english
17:28:15 <oerjan> ( is there a bot with this prefix still
17:28:18 <shachaf> Speaking of Rice's theorem, I was wondering about variations of it given that you already know something about the program you're given.
17:28:25 <shachaf> E.g. if you know a program halts, what can you decide about it?
17:28:32 <zzo38> Choose one-- ;; - Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to target permanent or player this turn. ;; - Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature with banding. That creature loses banding until end of turn. ;; - Target creature you control blocks target creature that is attacking you. This mode can be used only during declare blockers step.
17:28:34 <shachaf> What if you know that a program represents a computable real?
17:28:42 <shachaf> one++
17:29:05 <rdococ> one is now two
17:29:21 <oerjan> @karma one
17:29:21 <lambdabot> one has a karma of -11
17:29:34 <oerjan> rdococ: no, zzo38 decremented it
17:29:40 <rdococ> oh
17:29:41 <oerjan> although so have others, i see
17:29:46 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of Magic: the Gathering card and what mana you think is worth?
17:29:46 <rdococ> so one became zero
17:29:57 <rdococ> and then shachaf incremented what exactly?
17:30:05 <oerjan> rdococ: apparently it was already -11 to start with
17:30:09 <zzo38> But it says one has a karma of -11. Isn't it?
17:30:15 <rdococ> ha
17:30:15 <rdococ> -11
17:30:17 <zzo38> That is less than zero.
17:30:35 <rdococ> negativeeleven++
17:30:43 <b_jonas> zzo32: strange. I don't think I've ever seen something like that third ability. this is supposed to be on an instant, right?
17:31:04 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, clearly
17:31:52 <b_jonas> if this thing exists, then it's almost certainly white, so a fair costing must be W or 1W or WW
17:32:13 <zzo38> I also thought white, yes
17:32:13 <rdococ> TwoDucks is only super-tc if the Novikov self-consistency principle is taken to be true, right?
17:32:15 <b_jonas> I'm not sure how that last ability even works
17:33:15 <rdococ> actually, no
17:33:47 <oerjan> rdococ: if you have "new timeline replaces old" then i think you might get Feather instead...
17:34:17 <oerjan> but of course everything about Feather is only partially described at best
17:35:04 <oerjan> . o O ( randall munroe doesn't update his blag much )
17:35:06 <zzo38> b_jonas: What part you are not sure?
17:35:27 <oerjan> and still somehow i keep checking it nearly every monday
17:36:50 <oerjan> @karma it
17:36:50 <lambdabot> it has a karma of -17
17:36:55 <oerjan> @karma him
17:36:55 <lambdabot> him has a karma of -1
17:36:58 <oerjan> @karma her
17:36:58 <lambdabot> her has a karma of -1
17:37:09 <oerjan> @karma some
17:37:09 <lambdabot> some has a karma of -2
17:37:12 <rdococ> @karma lambdabot
17:37:12 <lambdabot> lambdabot has a karma of 32
17:37:17 <oerjan> i think i see a pattern
17:37:18 <rdococ> ooh
17:37:20 <rdococ> power of 2
17:37:20 <oerjan> @karma the
17:37:20 <lambdabot> the has a karma of -7
17:37:26 <oerjan> heh, even the
17:37:31 <rdococ> ?
17:37:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: does it somehow change the blocking assignment after it's been done? and what happens then? if the first creature was already blocking something and could block the second target but not both at the time, what happens? how do you change the damage assignment orders and damage assignments?
17:37:34 <rdococ> what's the pattern?
17:37:39 <oerjan> even though that should rarely appear before a pause
17:39:14 <oerjan> rdococ: common words go into the negative because people sometimes put a -- dash right after them
17:39:29 <oerjan> @karma this
17:39:29 <lambdabot> this has a karma of -6
17:39:35 <rdococ> @karma a
17:39:35 <lambdabot> a has a karma of 68
17:39:40 <rdococ> @karma c
17:39:40 <lambdabot> c has a karma of 2
17:39:52 <rdococ> I'm surprised c doesn't have more positive karma, after all you have c++
17:40:02 <oerjan> @karma c
17:40:02 <lambdabot> c has a karma of 2
17:40:05 <rdococ> huh
17:40:11 <oerjan> rdococ: i think they exempted it
17:40:15 <rdococ> oh
17:40:24 <shachaf> @karma c/c
17:40:24 <lambdabot> c/c has a karma of 1762
17:40:26 <rdococ> lemme try it--
17:40:29 <rdococ> @karma it
17:40:29 <lambdabot> it has a karma of -18
17:40:33 <rdococ> that works
17:40:41 <rdococ> @karma d
17:40:41 <lambdabot> d has a karma of -4
17:40:45 <oerjan> @karma that
17:40:45 <lambdabot> that has a karma of -20
17:40:50 <rdococ> @karma 3
17:40:50 <lambdabot> 3 has a karma of 2
17:40:53 <rdococ> huh
17:40:56 <shachaf> #hashtag #botspam
17:41:03 <rdococ> @karma #
17:41:03 <lambdabot> # has a karma of 6
17:41:07 <rdococ> ok I'll stop :p
17:41:15 <rdococ> who'd type #++ though (other than me :p)
17:42:24 <oerjan> the single character ones might be affected more by code
17:42:25 <zzo38> b_jonas: See rule 509.6.
17:42:27 <oerjan> @karma i
17:42:27 <lambdabot> i has a karma of 150
17:42:32 <rdococ> true...
17:42:42 <rdococ> @karma karma
17:42:42 <lambdabot> karma has a karma of 9
17:42:53 <oerjan> @karma me
17:42:53 <lambdabot> me has a karma of -10
17:43:22 <rdococ> :O
17:43:29 <rdococ> @karma rdococ
17:43:29 <lambdabot> You have a karma of 1
17:43:36 <rdococ> oh yay, my karma isn't negative
17:43:54 <oerjan> i'm not sure exactly who uses # ++ though. maybe one of these newfangled languages.
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17:44:16 <rdococ> hm
17:44:23 <rdococ> what if I make a language called rdococ++
17:44:40 <oerjan> haskell itself doesn't use ++, so it must be when someone posts code in a different one
17:44:47 <oerjan> oh wait
17:44:48 <oerjan> it does
17:45:36 <oerjan> but it's list concatenation, so it's unlikely to appear in the right way - you'd either have no space, or space on both sides.
17:45:41 <zzo38> That mentions damage assignment order. About the other questions, I think that it remains blocking everything it is currently blocking and also blocks the new target too, regardless of restrictions about blocking. That is my guess.
17:46:53 <b_jonas> let me see
17:47:42 <b_jonas> 509.6. If a spell or ability causes a creature on the battlefield to block an attacking creature, the active player announces the blocking creature’s placement in the attacking creature’s damage assignment order. The relative order among the remaining blocking creatures is unchanged. Then the defending player announces the attacking creature’s placement in the blocking creature’s damage assignment order. The relative order among the remaining att
17:47:56 <b_jonas> What existing card uses that?
17:48:14 <b_jonas> I thought we only had Gaze of Pain effects, which didn't really cause blocking
17:48:51 <zzo38> I don't know what existing card uses that
17:48:53 <b_jonas> Plus various effects that constrained blocking in advance, before it's decided
17:48:53 <zzo38> (if any)
17:49:19 <b_jonas> Isn't that used for some backwards ninjutsu cards that put a creature on tb blocking something?
17:50:08 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Aetherplasm
17:50:10 <HackEgo> Aetherplasm \ 2UU \ Creature -- Illusion \ 1/1 \ Whenever Aetherplasm blocks a creature, you may return Aetherplasm to its owner's hand. If you do, you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield blocking that creature. \ GPT-U
17:50:21 <b_jonas> that card, and possibly no more
17:51:38 <b_jonas> I don't think this phrasing would override any restrictions about blocking, because rule 101.2 says it doesn't override those. It would override requirements, such as lure effects.
17:52:58 <b_jonas> As for costing, it's really the first choice, preventing damage, which requires the card to be white. I could see the second ability in white, red, green, or black I think.
17:52:58 <zzo38> The creature is not being declared as a blocker though?
17:53:17 <b_jonas> And that last ability is something I've never seen the like, so I can't tell what color should have it.
17:53:45 <b_jonas> Could you just turn it into a gaze of pain effect, but with the opponent's creature having the scary eyes?
17:54:28 <rdococ> hmm
17:55:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, but that doesn't matter, at least for most restrictions. I don't think it will let you override flying, because of how 702.9 is phrased. Maybe it will let you block multiple creatures even without special abilities.
17:55:34 <rdococ> can you even iterate over all real numbers with the assistance of the halting oracle?
17:57:31 <zzo38> Effects that cause a creature to be blocked work even on unblockable creatures though, and some cards can attack even if restricted, and I think that evasion abilities and requirements and restrictions and costs to attack/block and other stuff are applicable to the declaration of an attack or block.
17:58:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's different, those are Curtain effects
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17:58:40 <rdococ> no wait
17:58:42 <b_jonas> Curtain effects let you turn a creature to blocked, but it's not blocked by anything in particular
17:58:43 <rdococ> it says you can
17:58:56 <b_jonas> Curtain as in what Curtain of Light does, but there are several other cards like that too
17:59:10 <oerjan> rdococ: the real numbers are uncountable, so no.
17:59:41 <rdococ> oh.
17:59:42 <zzo38> Yes, they are different, but is still "can't be blocked"
18:00:11 <zzo38> Maybe ask someone else who know for sure, if even such an answer either way is possible
18:00:22 <oerjan> also, if you nest iterations, the answer is no even for integers.
18:00:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't think there's a precedent for this sort of effect. I'd say just turn it into a Gaze of Pain effect or something.
18:00:39 <rdococ> can you determine if two mathematical functions are equal with just a halting oracle then?
18:00:52 <b_jonas> Gaze of Pain isn't the only card that does that, right? it's just rare because it's such a useless effect
18:01:00 <oerjan> rdococ: i think that would requires nesting two iterations
18:01:03 <oerjan> *-s
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18:01:24 <rdococ> well, if one is equal to zero at all points then
18:01:48 <rdococ> oerjan: you could subtract one's result from the other and check against zero
18:02:06 <rdococ> eg. f(x)-g(x)=0 for all x means f(x)=g(x) for all
18:02:07 * Zarutian thinks that primtive recursive functions are neat for being proovably terminating
18:02:07 <rdococ> x
18:02:40 <rdococ> unfortunately, as you say, the real numbers are uncountable
18:03:23 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Dwarven Vigilantes
18:03:24 <HackEgo> Dwarven Vigilantes \ 2R \ Creature -- Dwarf \ 2/2 \ Whenever Dwarven Vigilantes attacks and isn't blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Dwarven Vigilantes assigns no combat damage this turn. \ VI-C
18:03:35 <zzo38> I would just to add the rule if I need it, because I think what I specified seems most logical anyways. (There are some other minor changes I would make to the rules too, most of which affect nothing or hardly anything existing, although some might be affected in obscure circumstances. Such as, one thing I would to do is to redefine "flip a coin" as a keyword action that involves a random selection.)
18:04:10 <rdococ> so the sets of functions in Rice's theorem are uncomputable even with a halting oracle?
18:04:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50944&oldid=50943 * Douira * (+718) added more examples
18:04:32 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Farrel's Mantle
18:04:33 <HackEgo> Farrel's Mantle \ 2W \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Whenever enchanted creature attacks and isn't blocked, its controller may have it deal damage equal to its power plus 2 to another target creature. If that player does, the attacking creature assigns no combat damage this turn. \ FE-U, ME2-U
18:04:54 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Lacrolith Rig
18:04:55 <HackEgo> No output.
18:04:59 <oerjan> rdococ: oh wait, you don't need a nested iteration as long as checking a single value halts.
18:05:02 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Rig
18:05:03 <HackEgo> Laccolith Rig \ R \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Whenever enchanted creature becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, the first creature assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-C
18:05:12 <b_jonas> there's an entire cycle of this
18:05:20 <rdococ> wikipedia says you can go the other way
18:05:28 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Whelp
18:05:28 <HackEgo> Laccolith Whelp \ R \ Creature -- Beast \ 1/1 \ Whenever Laccolith Whelp becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Laccolith Whelp assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-C
18:05:33 <b_jonas> `card-by-name Laccolith Warrior
18:05:33 <HackEgo> Laccolith Warrior \ 2RR \ Creature -- Beast Warrior \ 3/3 \ Whenever Laccolith Warrior becomes blocked, you may have it deal damage equal to its power to target creature. If you do, Laccolith Warrior assigns no combat damage this turn. \ NE-U
18:05:45 <b_jonas> four creatures and an enchantment
18:05:58 <b_jonas> they used to do that sort of cycle in old sets, just think of the Flagbearers
18:06:03 <rdococ> e.g. a function that returns whether a mathematical function is a constant zero can be used to create a halting oracle
18:06:09 <zzo38> Existing cards that cause a creature already in play to block something (other than during declaration) already explicitly say the requirements anyways.
18:06:16 <zzo38> (e.g. Sorrow's Path)
18:06:39 <b_jonas> `card-by-name sorrow's path
18:06:40 <HackEgo> Sorrow's Path \ Land \ {T}: Choose two target blocking creatures an opponent controls. If each of those creatures could block all creatures that the other is blocking, remove both of them from combat. Each one then blocks all creatures the other was blocking. \ Whenever Sorrow's Path becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to you and each creature you co
18:07:01 <rdococ> wait
18:07:08 <oerjan> . o O ( #hashtag #mtgspam )
18:07:22 <b_jonas> ``` card-by-name sorrow's path | perl -e'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,250'
18:07:22 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
18:07:34 <b_jonas> ``` card-by-name "sorrow's path" | perl -e'local$/;print substr<STDIN>,250'
18:07:34 <HackEgo> king. \ Whenever Sorrow's Path becomes tapped, it deals 2 damage to you and each creature you control. \ DK-R, ME3-R
18:07:36 <rdococ> so a function that determines if a mathematical function is a constant zero- well, you can construct a function that returns f(x)-g(x) and check if any function f is indistinguishable from g
18:08:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's a good point, but that's a very old card that does something they probabyl wouldn't do now
18:08:04 <b_jonas> it's from The Dark
18:08:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: and the rules text there is necessary because they want to avoid the effect where one of the creature changes what it blocks but the other doesn't
18:08:49 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, although I don't care; they probably wouldn't print the second mode of the card I made up either, because it involves banding.
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18:09:13 <zzo38> And I did think of that too.
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18:10:11 * Zarutian is thinking on how to combine Uno and Robo Rally
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18:11:55 <zzo38> But it still isn't clear, because they didn't have the proper rules at the time of The Dark anyways; the new text just matches the printed text (which says that it may not cause an illegal block).
18:12:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: yeah, though there's a dating difference in my head. banding creatures were printed much later, up to fifth edition. sure, they didn't print pointless narrow cards like Tolaria, but that's just like how they don't print pointless stuff like Great Wall. Sorrow's Path is from The Dark, which is an early set I don't physically own a single card from.
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18:14:22 <b_jonas> Helm of Chatzuk and Benalish Hero are both in fifth edition. I have cards from Revised, Fourth, Fifth, and every expert set starting from Mirage, and I can buy new commons from those easily. The Dark is old and printed in low number of copies.
18:14:33 <zzo38> I happen to like banding though
18:15:03 <b_jonas> Sure, I like banding too. That's why I have a foursome of Benalish Hero, several other banding creatures, and even a Helm of Chatzuk.
18:15:16 <oerjan> `? tanebventions: math
18:15:18 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, the long line, locales, and histograms.
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18:17:29 <zzo38> I found a forum message about General Jarkeld, where someone asks a question and the answer is "Yes. The General just switches the blockers, the blocks do not have to remain legal." Note that this is consistent with the current text of General Jarkeld, but it is different from the printed text! Some old cards do have significant functional differences from their original printed text.
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18:22:30 <b_jonas> `card-by-name General Jarkeld
18:22:30 <HackEgo> General Jarkeld \ 3W \ Legendary Creature -- Human Soldier \ 1/2 \ {T}: Switch the blocking creatures of two target attacking creatures. Activate this ability only during the declare blockers step. \ IA-R
18:23:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: I see
18:23:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: that sounds strange. when is the forum message from?
18:24:14 <zzo38> MTG Salvation
18:25:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: _when_. as in, ten years ago, five years ago, two years ago?
18:25:22 <zzo38> From 2009
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18:25:36 <b_jonas> I see
18:25:37 <zzo38> So it is old
18:26:09 <zzo38> But I still think that doesn't make a difference, as I don't think that is one of the things that has changed since then.
18:26:48 <zzo38> But, if you do want to look, there is Yawgatog
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18:40:48 <zzo38> One thing I would want to change is to add a rule about "persistent properties" of objects. A persistent property persists across zone changes and other stuff. Changing them (if they change at all, which is unlikely) is a one-shot effect. Persistent properties include the object's initial text (or initial AST), owner, and kind. And then, I would to redefine "card" in terms of kinds of objects. What do you think?
18:43:13 <b_jonas> zzo38: sorry, I can't answer this one. now isn't the right time for me to contemplate rephrasing the MTG rules.
18:48:51 <zzo38> OK
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19:52:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SUL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50945&oldid=50944 * Douira * (+4) time and date example
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20:36:25 <shachaf> `5 w
20:36:29 <HackEgo> 1/2:laver table//A laver table is a type of Welsh furniture primarily used for eating seaweed. \ umlaut//Umlaut is German for "hum aloud", an important feature of the German language. It is indicated by putting two dots over the vowel of the syllable. \ horn//Horn is the reduction system behind Prolog, and also the magical body part growi
20:36:31 <shachaf> `spam
20:36:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:ng on the head of unicorns. \ utumno//Utumno is Morgoth's first dungeon. It is where he was defeated, and the Silmarils temporarily reclaimed from him. \ cpressey//cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse.
20:36:53 <shachaf> `cwlprits utumno
20:36:55 <HackEgo> b_jonäs
20:37:00 <shachaf> `forget utumno
20:37:02 <HackEgo> Forget what?
20:37:23 <shachaf> Now that I know b_jonas's strategy for making wisdom entries, I don't feel bad about removing them.
20:44:48 <int-e> Hmm, "silmarils" may be a bit too obvious?
20:45:28 <shachaf> ?
20:46:29 <int-e> Cf. The Silmarillion. (Which I started reading once and don't intend to ever finish.)
20:46:50 <shachaf> What do you mean is obvious?
20:47:00 <int-e> The connection to Tolkien.
20:47:15 <erkin> Definitely obvious.
20:47:23 <int-e> But I see now that it's even literally the first sentence on http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Utumno.
20:47:24 <Phantom_Hoover> other giveaways
20:47:27 <Phantom_Hoover> - morgoth
20:47:30 <Phantom_Hoover> - utumno
20:47:47 <erkin> The neo prog band of '80s took a slightly more hidden way of picking the name of Marillion
20:48:05 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: I'm generally bad with names... :P
20:48:13 <shachaf> Morgoth was pretty obvious. I don't think I'd heard of Utumno.
20:49:01 <shachaf> I know about Morgoth from having started reading the Silmarillion once.
20:49:20 <erkin> I managed to find a pretty obscure LoTR reference as my band's name.
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20:49:40 <erkin> Orocarni
20:49:57 <erkin> The red mountains reputed to be on the far east of Rhûn, where the first elves were born in the first age.
20:50:09 <erkin> Plus it sounds cool.
20:50:10 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, must've got far enough if he was morgoth rather than melkor
20:50:19 <int-e> (Tolkien makes names much harder than necessary because anyone of importance seems to have at least three of them.)
20:50:37 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, well, I don't remember where I remember the name from.
20:51:16 <shachaf> http://www.ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/tolkien__the_silmarillion__en.htm has it in the first paragraph of the foreword.
20:51:35 <shachaf> But I probably wouldn't have read that.
20:52:13 <shachaf> But it looks like it happens pretty early on?
20:54:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i quite liked reading the silmarillion on the whole because unlike lotr the text does not feel the need to describe every fucking rock in every fucking valley that the characters pass through
20:55:04 <shachaf> `? Phantom_Hoover
20:55:05 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
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21:18:06 <int-e> `? rule
21:18:07 <HackEgo> rule? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:19:05 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: but all those descriptions allowed people to reconstruct the geology after the fact
21:19:21 <Phantom_Hoover> lol lotr geology
21:19:31 <Phantom_Hoover> well, geography
21:19:44 <Phantom_Hoover> > largest forests on the continent directly in a rain shadow
21:19:47 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:43: error: parse error on input ‘in’
21:19:53 <\oren\> I have a book called "atlas of middle earth" that describes this in detail
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21:20:03 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: you said "every rock" so "geology" actually makes sense.
21:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> my point is that tolkien didn't know shit about those details when he wrote the book
21:20:46 <Phantom_Hoover> so they're not going to make any useful sense
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21:21:20 <int-e> `? utility
21:21:21 <HackEgo> utility? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:21:55 <\oren\> apparently he was ok at geology actually, he just sucked at climatology
21:24:02 <\oren\> which means that although his descriptions of e.g. the landforms resulting from glaciers and what rocks they are made of is ok
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21:24:34 <\oren\> his mountains are way too snowy way too far south
21:24:55 <int-e> . o O ( How about: "Few authors have ever been wrong in as excruciating detail as Tolkien." )
21:25:13 <\oren\> yeah
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21:37:45 <Zarutian> well, it depends. If the mountains are high enough but low enough that their rain shadows dont start until a bit after the peak on the dry side. But that means that there is one hell of a foggy landscape on their other side.
21:46:05 <\oren\> Zarutian: they are called "the misty mountians"
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23:09:47 <boily> `relcome bigcake
23:09:48 <HackEgo> bigcake: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:21:13 <int-e> hmm, "Duet" is surprisingly addictive
23:22:23 <int-e> (for a game that needs only two keys/buttons to be played)
23:26:08 <boily> int-ello. is that the thing with the spinning bar?
23:28:20 <int-e> two dots (red and blue), moving bars (initially white but can be "painted" by crashing into them... I gather that this is not the objective of the game), some spinning.
23:29:11 <shachaf> int-e: But it can't be played in a web browser?
23:29:38 <boily> I now remember having beaten it on my phone. very nice level design, but the pseudo-psychological statements between them irked me.
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23:32:15 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/duet.jpg
23:32:45 <int-e> shachaf: I don't know. I got it as part of a humble bundle, but only actually installed it last weekend
23:33:14 <int-e> (no rotating bars in the screenshot, hmm)
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23:35:08 <int-e> here we go http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/duet2.jpg
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23:47:56 <zzo38> I added the support for "geometry list" into SDLTERM, and fixed a few mistakes I had made, and now I have made an example of how to draw circles with OpenGL with it, by using a geometry list, vertex program, and fragment program. (It is necessary to use a vertex program to access the coordinates before they are transformed, because the input of the fragment program are transformed coordinates.) Do you like this? http://sprunge.us/hgFd
23:48:43 <zzo38> If you have suggestions for changes to the API, or complaints about it, then you can please to mention it.
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