00:00:06 i do hth 00:00:28 at least i think so. 00:00:32 In addition to oerjan, my wife and many style guides. 00:00:56 ^ul ((0123456789)S:^):^ 00:00:56 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 ...too much output! 00:01:01 ☺ 00:01:12 http://zdf1112-lh.akamaihd.net/i/de12_v1@392882/master.m3u8 just for the Record, sorry ☺ 00:01:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:06:02 looking at the log, clearly we should ask Ken M to name the _next_ four presidents in order. 00:10:35 Access Denied 00:10:37 You don't have permission to access "http://zdf1112-lh.akamaihd.net/i/de12_v1@392882/master.m3u8" on this server. 00:10:39 Reference #18.62fa7f60.1487808625.7cd07f8 00:11:44 it was just for the record, you weren't supposed to look at it hth 00:12:28 boily is the record 00:12:54 * oerjan cannot name the second king of Norway either. 00:13:55 hm apparently if was Erik Blodøks 00:14:40 *Eirik 00:19:15 * boily feels recorded 00:20:08 fungot: you wouldn't happen to be spying on me, are you? 00:20:09 boily: thanks. i really was joking about the implication. hence the text below the pic i draw today at labyrinth 00:31:10 -!- dok has left ("WeeChat 1.0.1"). 00:31:12 * boily hates scrolls of acquirement. 00:31:23 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:29 scrolls of acquirement are tg 00:31:40 get an armour 00:33:15 Totally Gnarly? 00:33:31 I always get an armor, and it gave me a +0 buckler. woohoo. 00:33:42 too good 00:34:11 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:40:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:43:29 boily: At least it wasn't a negative zero. 00:44:09 `? tg 00:44:10 TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not. 00:44:30 `cwlprits tg 00:44:31 int-̈e int-̈e oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän 00:44:38 * oerjan waves 00:44:42 int-e: did you play The Witness hth 00:44:59 @time int-e 00:45:00 Local time for int-e is Thu Feb 23 01:44:58 2017 00:45:05 Ah. 00:45:11 I don't remember whether int-e has Microsoft Windows. 00:46:56 int-e is near LOWI, so six hours from here, so that is about right. 00:47:12 What is int-e's body weigh? 00:49:11 `icao lowi 00:49:12 Innsbruck (INN, LOWI) 00:49:57 @metar ENVA 00:49:57 ENVA 222350Z 33015KT 9999 FEW030 SCT082 M01/M06 Q0980 RMK WIND 670FT 33023KT 00:50:08 sorry, I don't have int-e's body weigh on file. 00:50:29 @metar EGLL 00:50:29 EGLL 230020Z AUTO 23015KT 9999 OVC008 11/10 Q1004 TEMPO BKN012 00:51:17 shachaf: also, I am wholly missing you. I can put you at KOAK with a 150~250 lbs range. 00:51:21 @metar CYUL 00:51:21 CYUL 230000Z 09004KT 15SM FEW030 SCT150 BKN220 04/01 A2983 RMK SC1AC2CI2 SLP105 00:51:26 fizzie: 11??? 00:51:43 boily: i would prefer to remain unrecorded twh 00:52:21 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:52:42 noted. 00:57:31 boily: It was 17 this Monday. 00:58:05 I had lunch with some other Finns at work on the balcony. 00:58:57 @wn fohn 00:58:59 *** "fohn" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 00:58:59 fohn 00:58:59 n 1: a warm dry wind that blows down the northern slopes of the 00:58:59 Alps [syn: {fohn}, {foehn}] 00:59:02 ^ I hear it's because of that. 00:59:14 Not sure about the details, but that was mentioned. 00:59:56 -!- krok_ has joined. 01:00:32 the famous british alps 01:00:47 * oerjan thinks that's cognate to no:fønvind 01:01:32 "Föhntuuli" in Finnish. 01:02:35 oh, seems to properly have an ö in german. might be a borrowing then. 01:03:35 "A weather phenomenon called the Foehn Effect is behind the unusually high temperatures set to deliver Britain's warmest February day in five years." 01:04:11 "However, it is all change from mid-week with another bout of cold, wet and windy weather ready to pounce." 01:06:19 from latin favonius, claims wikipedia. 01:07:00 They keep giving wind speeds in miles per hour here, and I can only grok them at all in metres per second, since that's the conventional unit in Finland. 01:07:10 Was there a conversion thing in one of the many bots? 01:08:03 right, I always forget fizzie dissociated. 01:08:08 @metar EFHK 01:08:08 EFHK 230050Z 16012KT 1800 SN DRSN BKN004 00/M00 Q0970 TEMPO 1200 01:08:15 makes more sense now! 01:09:04 Oo-moo. 01:09:06 `` units '47 mph' m/s 01:09:07 ​* 21.01088 \ / 0.047594389 01:09:18 I can never really remember how to use that thing. 01:10:27 "SN DRSN" -- snow and then highly educated snow. 01:10:27 `frink 47 mph -> m/s 01:10:34 65659/3125 (exactly 21.01088) 01:10:48 That one I can't even remember the name of. 01:10:51 fizzie: snow drift hth. 01:11:13 (or drizzly snow? direct reference snow?) 01:11:23 frink also does basic calculations 01:11:41 (and possibly advanced ones, i think it's a PL) 01:11:43 lumituisku. 01:12:40 "Some very strong winds are expected on Thursday in association with storm Doris with gusts of 60-70 mph likely, and 70-80 mph on coasts and hills." 01:12:46 I see they've given this one a name as well. 01:13:30 hm norwegian storms also have names, but i don't think they're the same names since they're often norwegian ones. 01:13:44 Apparently names are a new idea here. 01:13:50 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_storm_naming_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_Ireland 01:13:59 In Finland they've had names longer as well, I think. 01:14:19 it's not that old in norway either. 01:15:09 I believe in Finland they're just named based on the name day calendar for the first day of the storm. 01:15:15 Here they're doing the alphabetical thing. 01:18:05 I think I remember hearing that for the "real storms" (Atlantic hurricanes and such) they recycle names except when it's a really impressive one, then they'll remove that name from further circulation. 01:19:21 yeah i remember that too 01:33:14 -!- krok_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:50 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 01:38:15 `wisdom 01:38:16 logs//I think you might mean !logs 01:38:23 !logs 01:38:36 (which bot was ! again?) 01:41:10 ^prefixes 01:41:10 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ . 01:41:21 in this case it's glogbot, though. 01:41:49 zemhill___ also uses ! 01:42:32 !whargharbl 01:42:48 not very responsive... 01:43:01 none of them ever responded to random commands, which is how they _could_ share the prefix in the first place. 01:43:15 !help 01:43:15 oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 01:45:12 All those underscores. :/ 01:46:32 ___ ___ ___ ♪ 01:56:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:11:48 A C program reading from stdin by read() is sometimes not reading the data. Do you know how to fix this? 02:12:36 What is it doing instead? 02:13:42 Not reading the data; read() returns something other than the length of the data (I haven't yet checked what exactly). 02:14:18 Maybe you just need to call read() again? 02:14:58 I get 208000 bytes instead of the full 1254410 bytes. 02:15:16 And, yes, I suppose to call read() again will work. But why won't it read everything at once? 02:15:30 What is stdin? 02:16:47 The stdin is from a Node.js program that is using the child_process module to pipe the data to it 02:16:57 "The value returned may be less than nbyte if the number of bytes left in the file is less than nbyte, if the read() request was interrupted by a signal, or if the file is a pipe or FIFO or special file and has fewer than nbyte bytes immediately available for reading." 02:17:20 It sounds like it's a pipe. 02:17:25 Yes I think it is a pipe 02:17:27 I'd expect it to be split up. 02:17:50 Will just repeating it until all bytes are read or it returns -1 to work? 02:17:58 More likely it'll return 0. 02:21:15 What should I have it do if the return value is zero? 02:26:34 Zero indicates end of file, according to read(2) 02:26:52 But did you know that you can keep reading from a pipe after you get 0? 02:31:41 If you're using curl -F 'something=<-' to read a form value from standard input, you have to type ^d twice, because curl will try to keep reading from the standard input once after getting a 0. 02:32:24 Why? 02:35:06 I'm not sure. I think I may have had a plausible explanation, but can't remember. 02:36:16 "cat - -" behaves in a similar way, though there the reasons are rather more obvious. 02:39:34 What happens if you put data in both stdins? 02:43:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NICKNAME CHICKEN). 02:44:09 -!- ChatSharp has joined. 02:44:48 shachaf: cat; rot13 does what i expected, anyway 02:46:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 02:46:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*ChatSharp@*.66.70.188.95.dsl.krasnet.ru. 02:46:57 -!- oerjan has kicked ChatSharp. 02:47:40 shachaf: If you meant curl, it will also concatenate. And it won't exit before you provide it two ^d's with no intervening data. 02:47:53 Ah. 02:47:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 02:48:49 * oerjan hopes other people didn't get targeted 02:49:30 _o/ didn't. 02:52:34 https://github.com/curl/curl/blob/master/lib/formdata.c#L1325 02:52:41 Seems a bit odd? 02:57:27 So in Ada, 'Access seems to be the way to get a thing to pass around to a function, but is also dangerous? 02:57:33 * Sgeo should attempt to learn Ada 02:58:18 Ada > Prismata, right shachaf? 02:58:32 [wiki] [[Sacred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51090&oldid=51046 * DanielJohnBenton * (+248) Sacred interpreter 02:59:09 Sure? 02:59:36 You've been obsessed with Ada for years. 02:59:53 [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51091 * DanielJohnBenton * (+151) links 03:00:55 [wiki] [[User:DanielJohnBenton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51092&oldid=51091 * DanielJohnBenton * (+118) favourite esolang 03:15:59 [wiki] [[Sacred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51093&oldid=51090 * DanielJohnBenton * (+1) fix "include" typo ("includes") 03:23:51 fizzie: OK, so if you type "abc\n^Ddef\n^D^D", fread returns 4, 4, and 0. 03:24:08 I guess that's expected behavior. 03:24:18 It should check feof() or something. 03:29:01 -!- Jafet has joined. 03:32:06 I've mentioned the bug in #curl 03:39:59 shachaf: OK, if I can keep reading from a pipe after zero, but then what? It does not explain so much, what should be done? 03:40:21 zzo38: What do you mean? 03:41:35 I intend to read until the full length is filled, or if there is an error or if the other end of the pipe is closed. 03:42:23 Then just stop reading when read() successfully returns 0. 03:43:14 Is that the only case that it will? 03:44:11 That's what my man page seems to say. 03:45:44 OK, then that should work. (It still indicates an error though, because the program does not expect to receive any different amount of data) 04:00:55 <\oren\> Radioactive wild boars have been detected in Czech forests 04:04:23 . o O ( are these alpha males? ) 04:13:46 fizzie: https://github.com/curl/curl/issues/1281 hth 04:13:53 If I didn't dislike GitHub pull requests so much, I'd fix it. Maybe I should email a patch? 04:28:08 shachaf, iirc you've repeatedly pushed me to look at Ada 04:29:57 Yes, that's what actually happened. 04:30:02 You were never very interested. 05:10:31 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 05:12:36 -!- significance has joined. 05:13:11 Hey all! Befunge noob here :) In the cat program ~:1+!#@_, how does the program ever end? 05:13:50 Wouldn't the ASCII value of the inputted character have to be -1, so that when you add 1 to it and negate it, it becomes 1? 05:13:53 `relcome significance 05:13:54 ​significance: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 05:14:02 shachaf: thank you!! 05:14:49 shachaf: Would this be the right channel to ask my question? 05:15:06 definitely 05:15:11 It would be a pretty good choice. 05:15:11 oerjan: thanks :) 05:15:20 Perfect -- thank you! 05:16:13 probably -1 is exactly the value befunge uses for end of input. 05:16:20 "In the case of an end-of-file or other file error condition, the & and ~ both act like r." 05:16:26 oerjan: ahh, thank you! 05:16:30 shachaf: oh 05:16:36 In http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html at least. 05:17:38 shachaf: does r just multiply by negative one? 05:17:54 r reverses direction 05:17:56 iirc 05:18:01 -!- kiki` has joined. 05:18:02 r multiplies delta by -1 05:18:05 So what oerjan said 05:18:08 ohh, gotcha 05:18:15 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:18:29 (Note: I don't know anything about Befunge.) 05:18:30 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 05:18:31 and now i remember that is indeed what befunge uses for errors 05:18:47 Wouldn't that send the control flow back to the comma? 05:18:51 oerjan: It seems pretty elegant, really. 05:20:09 I guess it would? 05:20:46 And then it would go back to the underscore, but if the stack's empty, doesn't the underscore send the control flow to the right? 05:20:50 i don't know what all the commands do there, so... 05:21:14 -!- hppavilion2 has joined. 05:21:21 no worries -- that sets me on the right track :) 05:21:23 thank you! 05:22:55 you're welcome 05:23:00 Is the stack empty? 05:23:20 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:24:19 Oh, maybe I'm wrong. 05:24:28 http://www.quirkster.com/iano/js/befunge.html puts -1 on the stack at EOF 05:24:40 So I guess Befunge-93 does it differently from Funge-98 05:24:50 I told you you shouldn't listen to me. 05:25:07 shachaf: awesome, thank you! 05:25:14 I mean, I feel like I learned even more this way :) 05:26:36 wut 05:28:41 anyway -> 05:28:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:39:08 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 06:01:57 Oerjan! Oerjan oerjan oerjan! 06:02:36 Øeıæŋ! 06:02:42 Øerıæŋ!* 06:18:43 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:18 hppahppavillivillionon11 06:25:31 oh god 06:25:34 HP pavillion 06:25:43 it's the source of all evil 06:36:11 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:36:36 -!- hppavilion2 has joined. 06:36:41 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:54:04 Now I made up a mine sweeper game with JavaScript it is https://www.npmjs.com/package/shapemines 06:55:17 The included graphics are monochrome and are not the best quality, but they will do. You can provide better graphics if you can do it. 06:56:29 -!- hppavilion2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:04:24 Do you have the feature suggestion and/or complaint? 07:08:48 Yes: It's written in JavaScript, but I don't seem to be able to run it in my browser. 07:09:20 -!- hppavilion2 has joined. 07:09:56 It's node.js, I think 07:10:07 Ridiculous platform, really. 07:10:23 If you want something not run in a web browser, don't use JS. 07:12:25 Screenshot http://zzo38computer.org/img_1C/mines.png 07:13:12 rdococ: If you don't like JavaScript you can use other program language, but I think JavaScript is a OK scripting language 07:13:59 For a web browser. 07:16:34 -!- hppavilion2 has changed nick to hppavilion1. 07:20:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:22:09 If you want to run this program on web browser then you would need to implement the SDLTERM API on top of the HTML API, and change the file I/O, and then it can work. 07:23:04 But, I am not going to change it for you. 07:24:15 That wasn't my point. 07:24:33 My point is, JS was designed as a web scripting language and it should stay that way. 07:25:01 Even if it wasn't, I...just don't like it anyway. Blargh. 07:25:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:29:39 I meant as the reply to shachaf 07:29:56 rdococ: I'm not even a fan of JS in a browser, but it's the only option 07:31:34 No it isn't, in some cases you can just use HTML (it depend what you are making) 07:32:36 @time fizzie 07:32:38 Local time for fizzie is Thu Feb 23 07:32:37 2017 07:34:34 Not necessarily, hppavilion1. 07:34:54 Okay, for some things, yes. 07:34:54 But you have other options for quite a few things. 07:35:06 Flash, PHP, some kind of Microsoft version of PHP, 07:35:34 rdococ: PHP isn't an option in the browser, Flash is a crime against humanity 07:35:58 Isn't PHP all about the server? 07:36:10 I don't like Flash or PHP so much (and the browser won't execute PHP code anyways) 07:36:52 It will if you compile it to JavaScript. 07:36:57 Still, I have written PHP codes too before (but don't do so much anymore); even IRC client I now use I had written in PHP. 07:37:13 Or if you run an x86 CPU emulator, and run Linux on it, and run PHP for that architecture. 07:37:14 We should construct a new programming language that should serve as an alternative to JS. 07:37:30 (If I was redoing it today I may to write in JavaScript instead) 07:37:37 ew JS 07:38:07 what we need is something better 07:38:11 well duh but still 07:38:46 Yes there are a few problems, such as it doesn't have macros 07:41:07 I'm barely aware of what macros are tbh 07:44:54 -!- erkin has joined. 07:52:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:07:38 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:08:02 -!- erkin has joined. 08:15:33 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:16:00 -!- erkin has joined. 08:16:48 OpenGL will use normalized numbers for the colour of the pixel in textures, and I think this is what caused a problem I had with it because numbers such as 1/255 they don't store exactly in the floating point representation. (I worked around though, by adding .3 after multiplying by 255) 08:24:52 I had the idea of an esolang which used "yes" and "no" for "true" and "false" 08:26:05 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:28:01 OK 08:28:07 See what you can make 08:31:21 yes 08:34:57 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:37:56 hi 08:45:37 -!- kiki` has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:47:13 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:40 -!- erkin has joined. 08:56:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:24:22 -!- augur has joined. 09:25:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:34:42 -!- augur has joined. 09:42:23 -!- erkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:51 -!- erkin has joined. 09:44:50 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:45:06 -!- erkin has joined. 09:48:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:56:54 rdococ: "yes" and "no" for true and false: don't some configuration files already support that? 10:59:46 Yes, that's definitely a thing. 11:00:28 I think some do 1, "true", "yes" and "on" vs. 0, "false", "no", "off". 11:01:06 SSH does "yes" and "no" only for many parameters. 11:19:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:12 -!- augur has joined. 11:20:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:21:22 shachaf: I have a copy of The Witness, still unfinished. 11:21:33 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:22:38 (I got it as part of the Humble Freedom bundle, so fairly recently; since there's basically just one puzzle type, so far I think it isn't worth the retail price.) 11:26:26 Basically, for a game that tries to be like Myst, it fails in terms of atmosphere, story, and variety of puzzles. The graphics are far more beautiful of course. 11:29:13 speaking of which, Obduction fares better in user score and worse in reviews than The Witness on metacritic, what am I supposed to make of that? 11:29:40 oh well, I'll be waiting for a 50% off deal. 11:30:26 I was so on the verge of getting the freedom bundle. 11:34:06 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:50 I'm thinking of it as a donation with free games, so there's nothing to regrett. 11:37:53 -t 11:40:24 The Swapper and Q.U.B.E. were quite enjoyable. The Stanley Parable is poison for obsessive people (perhaps I've missed an ending?) 11:44:37 (I'm using walkthroughs as a cure for that particular disease.) 11:56:39 You modern guys with your fancy games with multiple endings. Back in my days, you either saved the princess before GAME OVER or not, that's it. No variations. 12:01:05 But that game has the best achievement I've seen in a game so far: "don't play $GAME for five years". 12:01:47 (achievements, of course, are another kind of modern knick-knack that's poison for obsessive people) 12:02:34 int-e: nice. does that require you to still have the same computer and files five years later? 12:03:39 b_jonas: I *guess* you can get it by twiddling with the system clock. 12:04:38 int-e: isn't that cheating and not very far from just hex-editing all the badges into the save file? 12:04:51 I mean, what's the point? 12:05:34 I'm all for meaningless badges, sure, but still 12:05:46 `? potato 12:05:48 potato? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:05:50 `? potatoes 12:05:51 You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit. 12:17:10 is that true? 12:24:03 plausible 12:24:42 (You can *plant* potatoes. So if, for example, you want to control genetically modified food, then you end up with rules like that.) 12:27:08 What if you take the germinating parts of GMO potatoes? 12:31:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FULL CHICKEN). 12:36:44 rdococ: yes, it's true. let me find the reference. 12:38:45 rdococ: http://konzuliszolgalat.kormany.hu/europa-utazasi-tanacsok?norvegia says so, and it references http://www.toll.no/ where you can find http://www.toll.no/en/goods/food/regulations-for-meat-milk-cheese-and-other-foods/ which confirms the claim 12:46:05 -!- kiki` has joined. 12:52:55 b_jonas: the whole game is enough of a parody that "what's the point" is close to being the whole point of the game. 12:53:45 all the endings, for example, just bring you back to the start of the game. 12:56:40 isn't that normal for games? you complete the game, save the princess, and get back to the start of the game because there's no more content. or maybe you get a newgame-plus that differs a little, but you're still basically at the start, in the bottom of the dungeon with your tiny starting inventory and (only 2 extra lives or as a level 1 character). 12:57:10 In some sandbox games, you may continue playing after you win, but there's not much additional content anyway. 13:15:16 Is it possible to get a coach to Finland 13:22:36 hmm, "coach" is ambiguous in a funny way 13:26:06 I mean, cheap land-based transport 13:27:23 (From the UK, ideally) 13:27:39 You'd have to go one way or the other round the Baltic, which may present difficulties 13:40:33 Taneb: from where? 13:42:17 Taneb: from here (Hungary), Finland is too far, so taking any combination of train and bus there is so ridiculously expensive that it's almost always less practical than going by airplane or car most of the way (you may have to use a bus or train leg together with the airplane of course) 13:42:53 If you go by car, then you might need to take a ferry to cross the sea at some point. 14:31:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:44:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:48:47 -!- moony has joined. 15:00:46 b_jonas, from the UK 15:00:56 Domestically, coaches are often cheaper than plans 15:00:58 *planes 15:01:17 `finland 15:01:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: finland: not found 15:01:21 `? finland 15:01:22 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 15:01:58 yea, im very tempted to try and make Brainfuck in factorio. i have an idea on how to get it done and everything 15:03:04 using 2 mods: Recursive Blueprints, and Creative Mode (creative mode for infinite supplys) to allow the 'tape' to be extended infinitely, thus proving turing completeness in one fell swoop 15:03:29 moony: if you do, then write about this on the esowiki 15:03:37 i will :p 15:04:47 also, factorio, with its immense extensibility and practically infinite world, can probably handle any other esolang in existance if you try hard enough using combinators (you get the following: + - / * > < = !=) 15:05:13 combinators themselves can be described as a esolang with a small amount of stretching :p 15:05:37 Hmm, does Vanilla Factorio have any genuinely renewable resources (beyond power) 15:06:04 Water, and thats it, Oil pools slowly lose efficiency until they eventually hit '0' 15:06:47 if you expand out far enough, you can always find MORE resources, but they are not infinite 15:07:12 Been a while since I've played 15:07:30 hence why i want the Creative Mpde mod if i try and make a infinite tape, because it has a special chest that can make infinite amounts of whatever item is in the first slot. 15:07:45 Taneb, It has much better multiplayer support (its no longer p2p multiplayer) 15:08:00 and it has a builtin server list, alongside a builtin mod list and mod browser 15:08:15 ...it definitely had servers back when I was playing it, because I was playing on a server, although it was a bit hacky 15:08:33 yea, its much less hacky in terms of multiplayer now 15:08:48 its centralised now, like any good game server 15:09:15 and 0.15 is going to have a change to the way that belts handle items to grant a huge FPS boost 15:09:44 (it now records what items are there and the distance between each one instead of their X and Y pos on the belt) 15:10:22 that halves the amount, and the distance rarely changes (only splitters, inserters, and other things that poke the belt's contents can chzange it) 15:10:48 s/amount/amount of memory used/ 15:12:50 but yea, i've been tossing the concept of how brainfuck in factorio would work. 15:13:12 whats the smallest BF interp andwhats it's SRC? 15:14:21 if the SRC is in Assembly for some reason, thats better because ASM happens to be that much easier to translate to combinators 15:16:02 Taneb, you know any? 15:16:11 I don't, I'm afraid 15:16:23 damn 15:16:35 it will be that bit harder if i have to figure this out from scratch, but eh :p 15:16:39 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations has a big list 15:17:42 moony: I hear a lot of people play factorio, so you might find all sorts of practical hints about it on various places over the internet. you needn't figure out everything yourself 15:18:18 true, i know that :p 15:18:29 there is a 200p discord for it. (Which im in) 15:19:11 200p as in 200 people joined? 15:19:15 mhm 15:23:54 after this im going to try something diffrent.. maybe a assembly -> factorio compiler for the heck of it? :P 15:26:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 15:30:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:33:16 damn, i have been corrected, factorio has a hardcoded limit of 2 million x 2 million 15:33:19 tiles 15:33:53 tho, like everything else, a little modding can get around that :P 15:34:02 the real limit once you have modded away at it is the CPU 15:34:25 besides, no computer could handle a 2m x 2m factorio map. not even a supercomputer (game's singlethreaded) 15:34:59 who cares :p 15:35:21 i'll build a brainfuck interp and point out how close factorio it is to TC (thanks to the damn hardcoded map limit) 15:35:23 -!- LKoen has joined. 15:35:45 b_jonas, i need halp 15:35:56 i have been proven sorely wrong 15:35:59 cri 15:36:20 moony: go on? 15:36:44 like i said, factorio devs apparently hardcoded in a limit that no-one could reach, but still breaks TC, why'd they even bother? :P 15:37:24 no-one would ever reach that hardcoded limit, as the game only generates map as it needs to (when it enters the player's 'view') 15:38:57 and if they somehow did, the game would be at a fair bit less than one FPS 15:46:45 moony, I had an idea a while back for a Minsky machine in Minecraft 15:47:13 Using slime blocks and a series of flying machines, with the players riding some relevant ones 15:48:01 neat 15:48:31 moony: the limit is probably still useful to mitigate the effects of bugs that accidentally put very high coordinates to some data structure 15:48:39 bugs in the game implementation that is 15:48:44 yea, possibly 15:48:55 perhaps also bugs in mods 15:49:24 mods are written in lua, and are limited by the engine. (i know of no mods that add to the game directly) 15:50:42 eh so? those mods could still have bugs if they ever handle coordinates. 15:51:23 er 15:52:29 -!- augur has joined. 15:52:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:52:53 -!- augur has joined. 15:53:31 true that 15:54:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:06:20 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:09 -!- augur has joined. 16:23:44 -!- furozo has joined. 16:41:04 -!- rottytooth has joined. 16:41:47 int-e: How far into the game did you go? 16:42:36 I've been playing it and it's quite good in ways that aren't immediately obvious. 16:42:59 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:43:22 I got one beam to the top of the mountain, and I visited the top of the mountain. 16:43:49 so it feels like maybe 20% done 16:43:57 It's true that every puzzle involves drawing a line, more or less. 16:44:49 yeah, I've encountered a few not-so-obvious twists 16:45:02 and one very annoying one (garden mazes) 16:45:25 * int-e hates it when games require taking notes 16:45:25 Oh, you activated the castle laser? 16:45:37 no, that's not the one I activated 16:46:11 (well, not exactly hate... but I've grown accustomd to games that don't) 16:46:17 fizzie: did you notice your bug was fixed hth 16:46:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:47:03 You can press Print Screen to save a screenshot into the screenshot directory, by the way. 16:47:09 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:47:12 shachaf: Yeah, I think you've just caused me to accidentally close *so many* shells. 16:47:32 I've trained myself to automatically do the ^d^d when sprungeing stuff. 16:47:42 -!- augur has joined. 16:47:54 If curl starts obeying the first ^d, the second will go to bash. 16:48:23 There's no pleasing some people. 16:48:29 the solution is obvious, start a new interactive bash for the curl command 16:50:21 https://xkcd.com/1172/ 16:53:28 . o O ( that xkcd is basically why i keep using IE... ) 16:58:05 bananaa. 16:58:45 Lol... 16:58:49 wait you still use IE? 16:58:54 I fear for oerjan's sanity. 17:00:45 my insanity has never been in question. 17:01:07 (ok, not in this decade) 17:01:53 Oh, there's a sha1 collision. 17:01:56 It's about time. 17:02:09 . o O ( how many casualties ) 17:02:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:02:46 -!- erkin has joined. 17:03:13 fizzie: I was going to ask you if the rumors were legitimate but I guess they were. 17:04:45 Oerjan! Oerjan oerjan oerjan! <-- also, *someone* seems a little bit obsessed. 17:04:57 It's one of my greetings now. 17:05:02 -!- significance has joined. 17:05:02 O KAY 17:05:13 oerjan, oerjan oerjan! 17:05:32 oerjan: you seem to think everyone is obsessed with you 17:06:35 shachaf: just because i'm paranoid etc. 17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 17:06:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:10:11 It's node.js, I think <-- . o O ( clearly nodeJS needs a browser backend ) 17:10:22 oops 17:10:40 it's hard to be consistent when you can only see half the line you're typing. 17:11:07 i guess this is one downside to 80 columns in irssi. 17:12:02 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:12:17 i guess e had nothing significant to say 17:13:22 signific, ants 17:13:35 significance, ants 17:13:56 . o 0 ( Time -> Factorio ) 17:15:19 shachaf: Which rumours? 17:15:26 . o O ( hm can irssi support two rows for the input? ) 17:15:59 or even better, resizing up to a limit 17:16:50 i guess that could be annoying when browsing history 17:17:24 fizzie: That Google would announce a thing today. 17:17:48 there seem to be no irssi options with "input" or "row" in them 17:17:58 oerjan: you can try asking on #irssi 17:18:10 shachaf: wait, i thought you were still talking abou It's node.js, I think 17:18:20 argh stupid touchpad 17:18:22 -!- Zarutian has joined. 17:18:37 -!- significance has joined. 17:18:38 oerjan: no, sorry, on #irssi on IRCNet 17:18:57 shachaf: Oh, did we announce something today? 17:19:11 announce what? moon base again? 17:19:23 shachaf: wait, i thought you were still talking about sha1 17:20:05 I was. 17:20:33 ah. 17:20:39 Oh, I didn't hear about that. 17:20:43 Oh. 17:20:54 oerjan: you're in luck, the feature has already been proposed on the bugtracker: http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=372 *veg* 17:21:06 "veg"? 17:21:11 very evil grin 17:21:23 `learn d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a is the first checksum for which a collision in SHA-1 was found. 17:21:26 Learned 'd00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a': d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a is the first checksum for which a collision in SHA-1 was found. 17:21:34 nah, that's stupid 17:22:12 I don't think it's necessary as a wisdom entry. 17:22:20 ``` rm -v wisdom/d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c* 17:22:23 removed `wisdom/d00bbe65d80f6d53d5c15da7c6b4f0a655c5a86a' 17:22:25 int-e: that's not what i meant, anyway. i meant wrapping the line over more than one line when it's long. 17:22:28 shachaf: yeah, it's stupid 17:22:42 if they can find one collision, then they can find many other collisions too 17:22:50 oerjan: I'm pretty sure that's what they mean 17:22:58 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:23:02 there's nothing special about the first one 17:24:05 int-e: ok right, the comments seem to imply something else. 17:24:14 (and much more evil) 17:24:54 wait, so are they announcing a moon base today or not? 17:25:13 oerjan: true. I guess "multiline" prompt has two reasonable interpretations... 17:25:29 oerjan: but given the history of that report I wouldn't worry about those semantics too much. 17:26:21 int-e: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 17:26:52 a multiline prompt isn't so easy to implement, I think 17:28:21 b_jonas: clearly their moon base is where they did all the sha-1 brute forcing hth 17:29:09 . o O ( don't mind that growing spot you see on the moon, it's just computronium ) 17:32:19 -!- rodgort` has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:32:32 -!- pixels has joined. 17:35:49 "Now, researchers have demonstrated a similar type of real-world attack against SHA1, which ironically was widely adopted after the insecurity of MD5 became well-known." 17:35:53 What is the irony here? 17:38:01 -!- significance has joined. 17:38:11 People started leaping to SHA-1 at about the time attacks on SHA-1 began to seem plausible. 17:39:19 Note that in *2008* CAs still used MD5. 17:42:50 Honestly, it's actually rather promising that some rather important things (the CA ecosystem) abandoned SHA-1 before this. 17:45:52 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:46:13 -!- fowl has left. 17:49:28 -!- rodgort has joined. 17:50:03 b_jonas: I *guess* you can get it by twiddling with the system clock. <-- hm is there a system for digitally signed times... 17:51:23 oerjan: that seems closely related to the time-locked messages discussion we had... last week, I guess? 17:51:33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping exists 17:51:37 it's easy if you have trusted parties 17:51:59 int-e: i don't remember that discussion... 17:52:31 basically impossible without though you can get there to some extend based on computationally expensive tasks 17:53:02 well in this case i assume the game creator would decide who to trust... 17:53:24 pick *me*! 17:53:44 excellent choice 17:53:51 @time 17:53:55 Local time for oerjan is Thu Feb 23 18:53:51 2017 17:54:06 lambdabot: no no, i'm not to be trusted 17:54:08 @time int-e 17:54:09 Local time for int-e is Thu Feb 23 18:54:07 2017 17:54:34 oerjan: you came astonishingly close though 17:55:55 obviously too much latency 17:56:06 Oh, instead of trusted parties you could shoot physical objects into space and wait until they return 17:57:21 . o O ( trusted parties don't like being shot into space, i think ) 17:59:11 Maybe blink a cryptographically signed message at Alpha Centauri b and wait for its reflection... there may be some implementation challenges to overcome first. 17:59:42 _may be_ 18:00:07 But it should be good for a very secure 8.5 year delay. 18:00:57 I'm of course inspired by https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/ 18:00:57 it seems susceptible to a space-probe-in-the-middle attack 18:01:21 oerjan: sure, but you'd have to be proactive to get it there :P 18:02:07 you depend on your adversary not being proactive? that's security by obscurity! 18:03:01 I'm all for obscurity. Otherwise why would I be *here*? 18:03:51 adversity by obversity 18:04:07 @wn obversity 18:04:08 No match for "obversity". 18:04:16 @wn obverse 18:04:18 *** "obverse" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 18:04:18 obverse 18:04:18 n 1: the more conspicuous of two alternatives or cases or sides; 18:04:18 "the obverse of this issue" 18:04:18 2: the side of a coin or medal bearing the principal stamp or 18:04:20 design [ant: {reverse}, {verso}] 18:04:50 OKAY 18:14:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:14:46 -!- augur has joined. 18:16:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:18:45 -!- augur has joined. 18:33:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:03:57 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:20:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:39:32 -!- augur has joined. 19:41:25 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:42:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 19:45:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:51:48 -!- LKoen has joined. 19:53:15 -!- significance has joined. 19:58:18 <\oren\> Is it true that for every real number there's a series of rational nubmers that converges to it? 19:58:34 <\oren\> I seem to recall that being true 19:58:37 Yes. 20:00:19 `frink 100 mph -> m/s 20:00:24 5588/125 (exactly 44.704) 20:00:29 Those are some crazy ass-winds. 20:01:32 <\oren\> hwere? 20:01:47 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: reboot?). 20:01:49 "Storm Doris: Live updates as 100mph winds cause travel disruption across the country" 20:01:56 Somewhere around here. 20:02:05 I don't think it's so bad right here in London. 20:03:20 <\oren\> around here it's ridiculously warm for a february day 20:03:38 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:03:41 We had one of those on Monday. 20:03:44 +18 degrees. 20:04:17 -!- int-e has joined. 20:04:24 <\oren\> the Cythereforming of Earth continues 20:07:03 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:07:21 <\oren\> unfortunately that doesn't seem to be a real word 20:08:03 <\oren\> cytheraforming? 20:08:06 It's a nonce word now. 20:10:02 <\oren\> it SHOULD mean "changing the climate of a planet to more resemble Venus" 20:11:42 <\oren\> cythera- being the scientific prefix for Venus (because Venerean is too close to Venereal and Aphrodisial is too close to Aphrodisiac) 20:12:54 <\oren\> so for example to go to Venus you perform a "Trans-Cytherean Ejection" 20:13:15 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:19:29 -!- significance has joined. 20:25:46 -!- pixels has quit (Quit: Segmentation fault). 20:27:07 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:41:54 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:47 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 20:45:14 fizzie: Do you use -F 'field=<-' that often? 20:46:17 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:01:59 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:18:16 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:32:50 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 21:32:56 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 21:34:56 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left. 21:37:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:56:16 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 21:58:10 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left. 22:03:40 -!- krok_ has joined. 22:06:26 shachaf: I'm guessing about once a week, maybe a little bit more. 22:06:46 shachaf: It's the canonical solution here: http://sprunge.us/ 22:06:47 For what? 22:06:51 Ah. 22:06:59 Right. 22:07:15 you should make sprunge.us accept grpc hth 22:07:22 It works fine for pasting the output of a command, but I often copy-paste to get "$ command line" part in as well. 22:08:00 I might be okay by doing a "sprunge-it foo bar baz" wrapper that'd do (echo '$ foo bar baz'; foo bar baz) | sprunge. 22:08:07 Except then I'd need to remember to use that. 22:08:34 It also wouldn't use your non-exported variables and other shell things. 22:08:50 That's a-true too. 22:09:35 You didn't like CapnProto because it made you feel bad for protobuf, right? 22:09:41 Yes. 22:09:54 (A very non-rational reason.) 22:10:27 Do you like how it stores things xored against the default value so that zeros always correspond to the default value? 22:10:58 I'm not sure I care about non-zero default values sufficiently much to feel too excited about that. 22:11:23 Do you like this? 22:11:36 I think proto3 removed non-zero default values entirely, right? 22:11:49 At least https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/proto3#default sounds like that. 22:12:23 fizzie: Maybe you can feel better knowing that sandstorm.io went out of business. 22:13:22 No, I think now I just feel bad for them. 22:14:01 Does the etymology of sandstorm.io have anything to do with Darude's Sandstorm? 22:15:46 I don't know. 22:16:31 Darude is a famous Finnish musician, I suppose. 22:16:45 Like Sibelius. 22:17:08 Yes, just like that. 22:17:58 The other day in our confidential communication you said something like "like this, just like that". 22:20:35 Plausible. I don't remember what I may or may not have said. 22:24:48 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:41:58 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:36 The normal mine sweeper game with a uniform square grid with king's adjacency, but I also made up other modes too, such as: knight's adjacency, board wrapping, grid with holes in it, grid with some cells are bigger than the other one, game that orthogonal adjacencies count double, etc. 22:44:04 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 22:44:36 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined. 22:46:06 -!- Marcela_Gandara has left. 22:49:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:51:28 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:54:05 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:56:38 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has joined. 23:02:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:12:20 -!- significance has joined. 23:16:35 What about grids that are the surface of a Klein bottle 23:16:51 Or in hyperbolic space 23:17:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 23:17:59 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 23:20:38 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:20:39 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:21:11 -!- tromp has joined. 23:22:26 -!- Marcela_Gandara1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:22:30 -!- significance has joined. 23:25:59 Taneb: what about them 23:26:22 They might be fun to sweep mines in 23:27:57 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:29:11 -!- significance has joined. 23:36:08 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:39:48 OK can you explain how to do that? 23:43:53 -!- significance has joined. 23:52:08 -!- significance has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).