00:01:41 * oerjan got soaked by this stupid weather
00:02:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51371&oldid=51358 * Charliefoxtrot * (+198)
00:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Evil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51372&oldid=47260 * Charliefoxtrot * (+653) Added quine
00:04:27 <oerjan> slush storms are the worst.
00:06:26 <oerjan> i suppose technically fire storms are worse.
00:09:04 <boily> is there such a thing as slushy fire?
00:09:29 <oerjan> not with water slush, i suspect
00:09:36 <oerjan> maybe lava slush will work.
00:10:26 <fizzie> boily: Just for a visit.
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00:22:49 <quintopia> shapr: if you are free another sunday, ill take you up on the offer to talk my ear off about testing. ill buy lunch.
00:23:40 <quintopia> boily: if youre free another sunday.... :D
00:25:34 <boily> . o O ( who is this shapr person again? )
00:26:47 <HackEgo> Your buddha oerjan is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:26:58 <\oren\> oerjan: at least you weren't soake in hydrofluoric acid
00:27:20 <hppavilion> Gragh, what's the command to sed wisdom/oerjan again?
00:28:21 <hppavilion> `` slwd oerjan 's/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/'
00:28:34 <hppavilion> `` slwd oerjan//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:28:35 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 8: unterminated `s' command
00:29:01 <oerjan> hppavilion: YOU are excessive
00:30:25 <oerjan> `sled test//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:30:49 <oerjan> hppavilion: it doesn't use ``
00:31:35 <oerjan> half the point of it is to _not_ have to escape regexps, which `` would defy.
00:31:56 <hppavilion> `slwd oerjan//s/buddha oerjan/omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive/
00:31:58 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent local tyrant oerjan the excessive is a lazy expert in mercury computation. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience; but lately it's the only word he can ever remember. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
00:32:26 <hppavilion> (I'm sure there's a better title than "excessive", but that's what it is in ZORK!. I imagine it'll now constantly change)
00:32:49 <\oren\> ok, now I'm trying to mod ksp
00:35:56 -!- hppavilion has set topic: Happy π day | The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:37:59 <oerjan> hppavilion: it's already over here hth
00:38:08 -!- hppavilion has set topic: Happy π day to those living under the 2-norm | The exact ray tracing channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:39:05 <hppavilion> In Manhattan, π day is instead --03-31 (approximating --04-00)
00:40:55 <hppavilion> A circle is the set of all points equidistant from some center point (equidistant being the radius)
00:41:48 <hppavilion> If you use something other than the 2-norm (euclidean distance) as your definition of distance, you get different shapes, and if you use that same norm to then measure the circumference and divide it by the diameter (2 if you go with the unit circle), you get different values for different norms
00:42:33 <hppavilion> And you could say they're different values of π under different norms (or different circles). In Manhattan distance (1-norm, taxicab distance, whatever), π = 4
00:43:37 <HackEgo> internationale//You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee.
00:44:00 <HackEgo> Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeud to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu.
00:44:08 <HackEgo> Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu.
00:45:37 <boily> colour is the proper spelling.
00:47:16 <hppavilion> `learn zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
00:47:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'zed': zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
00:54:49 <HackEgo> zed//Zed is the 26th letter of the alphabet in Commonwealth English. Why they consider what is clearly a 3-letter string to be a single letter is unclear.
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01:27:58 <quintopia> boily: shapr has been at #esoteric since forever, but not often
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01:40:07 <boily> must've been quite the forever, to not even be recorded through History.
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01:51:30 <HackEgo> 20) IN EINEM ALTERNATIVEN UNIVERSUM (WO DIE NAZIS WON): <ehird> So kann ich nur schliessen, dass es falsch ist, oder die Welt ist vollig BONKERS. Gegrusset seist du der Fuhrer Hitler! \ 277) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, Hitler! You and your wacky antics! \ 538) <Phantom_Hoover> OMG <Phantom_Hoover> What if <Phantom_Hoover> we shoot Hitler with neutrinos
01:52:54 <quintopia> see. Hitler is more famous than Ghandi
01:54:03 <quintopia> hppavilion: if you were looking for a search to come up empty, you probably shouldn't search someone so famous!
01:54:29 <hppavilion> quintopia: I forgot that it includes the text of the message
01:57:31 <HackEgo> 998) <shachaf> oerjan is spreading the tired rumour that if you play Nietzsche backwards you hear Jewish messages.
01:58:22 <pikhq> That sounds more German, or maybe Yiddish.
01:58:37 <hppavilion> Then again, I've never taken or even heard Hebrew in my entire life other than as background gargle on maybe Supernatural
01:58:49 <oerjan> the famous russian physicist Nietsnie
02:00:30 <pikhq> Apparently German at one point; the double s is a ligature of S and Z originally.
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02:06:30 <oerjan> hppavilion: obvious satanist and in the wrong channel
02:06:49 <pikhq> I wonder how many satanists are here.
02:07:01 <oerjan> hppavilion: omegasome
02:07:21 <quintopia> what's wrong with having satanists here
02:07:45 <hppavilion> PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH CTHULHU R'LYE- sorry, something in my throat.
02:07:53 <pikhq> hppavilion: That was my assumption. There aren't that many satanists who aren't LaVeyan or clearly informed by him.
02:07:56 <oerjan> quintopia: well they're summoning demons
02:08:18 <quintopia> oerjan: also okay, as long as no summoning succeeds
02:08:45 <hppavilion> I can't tell if I'm being called a satanist at the moment
02:10:30 <oerjan> i can't tell if your jokemeter is miscalibrated
02:10:55 <hppavilion> oerjan: Well I know that this is all a joke, I just don't know whether I'm a satanist in it
02:11:44 <pikhq> Well, are you a satanist?
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02:28:33 <oerjan> oh, pi day is also einstein's birthday
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03:28:46 <HackEgo> 2/2:ith neutrinos \ 959) <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think hitler made any bf derivatives \ 982) <kmc> hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too <kmc> he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas <Fiora> oh! he killed hitler <kmc> oh yeah, there we go <kmc> thanks Fiora <Bike> he also killed the guy who killed hitler
03:39:53 <\oren\> I have made three new parts for KSP
03:39:59 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/pHMQK4.jpg
03:40:02 <\oren\> The GNR-KM Long-Mission RTG is powered by Kerbicium, which isn't found anywhere in nature. It outputs a small amount of electricity, but will last a lot longer, we're told. It's blue, too!
03:40:08 <\oren\> The GNR-PO High-Power RTG is powered by polarium, found on the moon Pol and also in the dirt we dug up when we planted the space centre's flag pole. It outputs a lot of electricity and is definitely not just a normal RTG painted red.
03:40:12 <\oren\> The GNR-BP Low-Cost RTG is powered by Boppium, a common isotope found in waste from recycled LV-N rocket motors. It's significantly cheaper than other RTGs. It lacks both power and longevity though.
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06:27:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Antixk * New user account
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10:41:48 * hppavilion is now playing: Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A Changin'
10:42:02 * hppavilion is now playing: Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A Changin'
10:43:08 * boily mapoles hppavilion in the plugin parts
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10:47:27 <hppavilion> Now I have a CTCP reply WA that allows you to ask arbitrarily what I'm listening to (replying via privmsg) AND a ctcp WA_NEXT to make me change when I have bad taste
10:48:26 <lambdabot> KLAN 150953Z 31011KT 10SM CLR M09/M14 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP234 T10941144
10:48:44 <boily> -9 °C to defenestrate oneself? you're courageous!
10:51:15 <fizzie> Apparently it's in Lansing.
10:51:38 <hppavilion> I'm waiting for people to abuse CTCP HPPAVILION WA_NEXT
10:53:01 <boily> huh. seems to work
10:54:11 <boily> it works if I semi-flood. also, you have a weird playlist.
10:54:31 * hppavilion is now playing: Chromatik - Trumpet in Bb, Cornet in Bb, Flugelhorn - 99 Red Balloons - Nena Sheet Music, Chords, and Vocals
10:54:34 <Vorpal> I have a love hate relationship with Ubuntu LTS. On one hand I don't have to do a major update as often. On the other hand, they feel less stable than normal releases as of late.
10:55:00 <hppavilion> I'm shocked that there's a Flugelhorn rendition of 99 luftballons at all..
10:55:36 <boily> Vorpal: haven't had any major problems with mine, but I think I get how you feel. it just feels... less?
10:56:27 <Vorpal> boily: well, I have an old core 2 duo laptop with intel graphics and intel wifi. Until the most recent LTS it worked perfectly. Now suspend & resume is kind of broken. And the screensaver too.
10:56:39 <Vorpal> I get double screensavers while running MATE apparently
10:56:52 <Vorpal> So I get two password unlock dialogs
10:57:33 <Vorpal> Hah, yeah same password
10:57:36 <Vorpal> the suspend resume issues are worse though. On resume, sometimes the wifi doesn't scan properly, so it doesn't detect any network. Forcing a scan via the command line as root fixes it.
10:58:24 <Vorpal> The worse issue is that the graphics in some programs such as chrome and steam (but not firefox) breaks and starts to flicker diagonally after resume. Rebooting or restarting X11 fixes that
10:59:07 <Vorpal> (why do I have steam on this? It isn't good enough to game. True, but I can still do other stuff, such as activate codes or whatever from it)
11:01:06 <Vorpal> fizzie: Hm, considering migrating cfunge from bzr. Any suggestions? Either hg (bitbucket hosting) or git (github) I think. I'm way more used to hg (use it at work), but it feels like it isn't very popular these days.
11:01:11 <boily> core 2 duo desktop with an old nvidia card somewhere. I have never seen suspend working.
11:01:22 <Vorpal> boily: well this is a laptop, an old thinkpad
11:01:34 <Vorpal> So it kind of matters more. If it was a desktop I wouldn't care
11:01:49 <Vorpal> I don't think my desktop suspends properly under Windows even.
11:02:00 <boily> that's what I have here, an old secondhand machine. it supports windows 7!
11:03:07 <Vorpal> Anyway I can't figure out which programs triggers the graphics glitch. It appears that it isn't stuff using opengl to render or some such simple thing, since glxgears doesn't have that issue
11:03:29 <boily> do you have any issues with libreoffice? weird pink rectangles?
11:03:42 <Vorpal> I don't think I have that installed
11:03:59 <Vorpal> Also I recently rebooted, so I don't have the issue right now
11:04:38 <Vorpal> Actually I have it installed, and I remember writing a letter in it a couple of weeks ago (LaTeX felt overkill for that). So probably not?
11:05:08 <Vorpal> boily: is that an issue you have?
11:07:29 <boily> I had that a few years ago on my ancient thinkpad when in university.
11:08:47 <Vorpal> Probably need a new laptop soon. Any recommendations? Need a trackpoint and a matte screen. 16:10 monitor would be great, but I don't have high hopes.
11:08:55 <Vorpal> Does that leave me with only thinkpads?
11:09:21 <Vorpal> I might go for non-intel graphics this time around though. Needs to work with linux of course
11:11:07 <boily> https://system76.com/ ← I have their Galago.
11:11:17 <boily> (well, a previous generation of galago.)
11:11:54 <Vorpal> boily: do they ship to EU?
11:11:55 <fizzie> Vorpal: Don't really have any suggestions, though bitbucket does git as well. I'm not too keen on the web experiences of either Bitbucket or Github, but they both get the job done.
11:12:06 <boily> Vorpal: eh, maybe? lemme check.
11:12:23 <Vorpal> also that page makes my old thinkpad swap heavily
11:13:24 <boily> https://system76.com/shipping
11:14:05 <boily> I have you filed as "Sweden?" in the The File. do you per chance have more precise geographic coördinates and body weigh?
11:14:36 <Vorpal> boily: Sweden is close enough. I value my privacy
11:15:00 <Vorpal> So yeah looks like they ship there
11:16:27 <Vorpal> "System76 manufactures US keyboard layouts on all laptops. You can choose your own language and software-based layout during the first time-user setup. Keyboard stickers may be used to adjust to your specific language."
11:16:36 <Vorpal> boily: argh no. Your enter key is the wrong size
11:16:56 <Vorpal> Also stickers will wear out quickly
11:17:26 <Vorpal> I worn out molded keys after all. A sticker wouldn't stand a chance
11:17:56 <Vorpal> Also UPS shipping? Ouch. That is the shipping company from hell. At least over here in Sweden.
11:18:33 <boily> it's hell here too. I think I ranted about them quite a few times on this channel.
11:18:51 <boily> (that, or PDFs. another TLA from hell.)
11:18:57 <Vorpal> boily: DHL or the national postal service are far preferable.
11:19:51 <Vorpal> boily: what does PDF has to do with it? Isn't it just a subset of postscript?
11:20:16 <Vorpal> That is then encoded as binary
11:20:20 <Jafet> it's a subset of a superset of postscript
11:20:23 <Vorpal> as opposed to human readable
11:20:48 <Vorpal> Jafet: Well I guess that makes sense. PDF has features that doesn't make send in PS. Like bookmarks and links.
11:20:53 <fizzie> I bought one of those "XMG" laptops from https://www.mysn.de/ once, mostly because you could customize what you get. Though I'm not unequivocally happy in retrospect.
11:21:06 <Vorpal> What was wrong with it?
11:21:44 <fizzie> Poor battery life, noisy fans. Weighs a lot, especially with a gigantic power brick.
11:21:58 <fizzie> It was more of a desktop replacement than a laptop, really.
11:22:32 <Vorpal> Yes those would all be issues for me
11:23:10 <Vorpal> I'm looking to start studying again this fall. So I need a replacement for this 15" thinkpad that is not so outclassed by my phone.
11:23:30 <fizzie> My work laptop's a Thinkpad Carbon X1, it's not too bad.
11:23:39 <Vorpal> fizzie: how is the keyboard?
11:23:46 <fizzie> They keep coming up with new versions of it, I think they're up to v5 now.
11:24:03 <Vorpal> I wouldn't mind a thinner laptop. This one has the USB ports vertically on the side.
11:24:45 <fizzie> It keeps getting categorized as "ultraportable", although that's probably a rather meaningless word.
11:25:05 <fizzie> ...gone partially USB-C.
11:25:10 <Vorpal> fizzie: can you replace components, like the memory or the HDD in it?
11:25:21 <Vorpal> If it is a netbook I would expect no
11:25:36 <fizzie> I don't think "netbooks" really are a thing any more.
11:25:40 <Vorpal> Also that is expensive. Almost 2 grand
11:26:45 <Vorpal> Well okay there seems to be like 15 variants of it, ranging from 1k USD to >2k USD
11:26:51 <fizzie> I'm guessing you can likely replace at least the storage, not so sure about the RAM. Probably not that.
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11:27:30 <fizzie> Don't think I can really recommend it from a worth-the-price perspective, seeing as I didn't actually buy one.
11:27:39 <fizzie> But if someone gives you one I'd take it.
11:28:02 <Vorpal> how large is the screen on that thing?
11:28:30 <fizzie> I think it's a 14" screen or something.
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11:29:06 <Vorpal> hm so smaller than my current one
11:29:12 <Vorpal> I really like the 15" form factor
11:29:23 <fizzie> I've got the 2560x1440 variant, which is a little awkward when plugged into an external monitor as well, thanks to Linux not being so great on monitors that have different DPIs.
11:30:27 <Vorpal> fizzie: windows sucks at it too. At least windows 7
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11:34:50 <Vorpal> Something like this doesn't look too bad: https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?e=3408631
11:35:01 <Vorpal> fizzie: you can read Swedish right?
11:35:11 <Vorpal> Don't really need the DVD drive though
11:38:56 <Vorpal> Why is it with the two factor code, that when you open the app there is almost always like 5 seconds left before the codes refresh, so you have to wait to have any chance of submitting the code in time.
11:39:28 <Vorpal> Would be more likely to be uniformly distributed over the 30 second interval
11:48:33 <fizzie> Someone told me there's usually a bit of a grace period so you can still use the first one. Assuming you can manage to type it in.
11:49:02 <fizzie> (I usually just wait patiently.)
11:49:51 <lambdabot> EGLL 151120Z AUTO 28004KT 200V360 9999 NCD 13/09 Q1034 NOSIG
11:50:07 <fizzie> Sure doesn't feel like 13 degrees in the sun.
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13:02:49 <Jafet> agner's notes on skylake: The processor turns off the upper half of the 256-bit execution engine when it is not used, in order to save power. Instructions with 256-bit vectors have a throughput that is approximately 4.5 times slower than normal during an initial warm-up period of approximately 56,000 clock cycles or 14 μs.
13:03:33 <Jafet> do we have any power-aware esolangs yet
13:04:22 <int-e> I wonder whether that's to be taken literally :)
13:04:52 <_11> huh, I didn't know that
13:05:05 * _11 wonders about some inline assembly in a Rust program of theirs
13:06:45 <Vorpal> Jafet: "approximately 56,000 clock cycles or 14 μs", man processors are faaast these days
13:07:28 <Vorpal> Also how soon after you stop using those instructions does it turn them off?
13:07:50 <Taneb> _11, I once managed to get close to inline assembly in Agda, I'm sure you can manage
13:07:54 <_11> Vorpal: man, they are
13:08:08 <Jafet> I could find out, if I had a skylake
13:08:24 <_11> Taneb: erm, I was wondering whether my program was affected by that slower throughput
13:08:46 <Taneb> Ah, sorry, didn't see context
13:15:44 <fizzie> There's an Inline::ASM Perl module.
13:16:05 <fizzie> I've only done Inline::C, which was already ridiculous enough.
13:19:36 <Vorpal> It gets silly yes, having to try to tell the compiler what registers you are messing with, and all that
13:20:07 <Vorpal> the syntax for that in gcc is silly complicated. Why not it slightly less compact and 10 times more readable
13:21:53 <Jafet> gcc should really just provide more builtins so that you can write all your assembly in C
13:21:54 <fizzie> I have the impression the syntax evolved from GCC internals (in particular the machine description language), not from a principled attempt at designing an inline asm syntax.
13:22:18 <Vorpal> Jafet: I looked up that agner thingy. Really cool, but how on earth did he figure this out?
13:22:54 <Jafet> it gets silly these days when you have to pick registers in an asm block in order to tell the cpu what your data flow graph is so that it can rename all those registers internally
13:22:56 <Vorpal> fizzie: that would make a certain amount of sense
13:23:48 <Vorpal> Jafet: sure, but does Intel & AMD make all this information public somewhere, or how does he know?
13:23:54 <Jafet> Vorpal: from debugging the unexpected results of his benchmarks, presumably
13:25:52 <Jafet> agner is one of those professional cpu archaeologists who spend all their time studying undocumented computing artifacts from alien cultures, like haswell CPUs
13:26:54 <Jafet> with the help of priestly texts written in a shroud of secrecy, like the official intel manuals
13:28:24 <fizzie> Possibly sometimes even exothermic, if you get it wrong.
13:32:17 <Vorpal> Jafet: what do you have against haswell?
13:35:24 <Jafet> it was just an example of an architecture whose internal workings are largely secret (which, these days, is all of them)
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16:19:05 <oerjan> `` grep KLAN share/air*
16:19:06 <HackEgo> 3544,"Capital City","Lansing","United States","LAN","KLAN",42.7787,-84.587357,861,-5,"A","America/New_York"
16:20:04 <oerjan> `` grep ENVA share/air*
16:20:04 <HackEgo> 665,"Vaernes","Trondheim","Norway","TRD","ENVA",63.457556,10.92425,56,1,"E","Europe/Oslo"
16:25:23 <\oren\> "Trump ‘true friend of Muslims,’ Saudi prince says after meeting"
16:25:32 <\oren\> lololololololololololololololol
16:25:44 <oerjan> some people know everything about sucking up
16:27:02 <int-e> well, for some reason Saudi Arabia wasn't included in Trump's travel ban...
16:30:33 <\oren\> the onion isn't fake enough anymore
16:31:34 <\oren\> what's next? "Geert Wilders is a true friend of the Moroccan people, says Moroccan Imam"
16:31:47 <oerjan> . o O ( Onion shuts down as they're unable to compete with the real world )
16:44:38 -!- augur has joined.
16:52:45 <oerjan> `frink 56000/14 microseconds
16:52:56 <HackEgo> 1/250 (exactly 0.004) s (time)
16:53:43 <oerjan> `frink 56000/(14 microseconds)
16:53:47 <HackEgo> 4000000000 s^-1 (frequency)
16:55:15 <oerjan> `units 56000/(14 microseconds)
17:12:07 <HackEgo> olist 1068: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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17:38:02 <oerjan> let's hope they find his sword, at least.
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18:20:15 <rdococ> I watched this Portal video which showed a three portal gun which could clone things (something goes in blue, comes out orange and red). Imagine if a piece of esoteric hardware could take advantage of this.
18:20:24 <rdococ> Would it be any different from normal hardware, though?
18:20:31 <rdococ> I can't imagine it would be different.
18:38:49 <Vorpal> <oerjan> let's hope they find his sword, at least. <-- ??? what is this in reference to? I don't think I have anyone on ignore in here, so where there no context?
18:40:58 <Vorpal> oerjan: still blanking on that one
18:41:18 <oerjan> it's two lines above hth
18:41:31 <HackEgo> olist is update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html
18:42:31 <Vorpal> oerjan: strange notification system. No RSS?
18:43:45 <Vorpal> Right, so it doesn't have to make sense then :D
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18:54:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[HI9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51373 * Rdococ * (+978) In order to help fellow esolangers prove that their new esolangs can quine, I have designed this Turing-incomplete masterpiece.
18:56:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51374&oldid=51339 * Rdococ * (+130) /* My hopefully better esoteric languages (2017 CE - infinity CE) */
18:59:09 <oerjan> rdococ: actually there are several other interpreters supporting quines, e.g. the one with source code "Hello, world!Hello, world!" hth
18:59:40 <oerjan> a quine should not take input. so only the _empty_ source works.
19:00:13 <rdococ> You're misinterpreting it :/
19:00:33 <rdococ> The point is that implementing HI9+ in a languages requires the code required to produce a quine.
19:01:02 <rdococ> This was not the case in HQ9+, hence my construction of HI9+.
19:01:10 <rdococ> Also, the first two letters spell hi :P
19:01:13 <oerjan> rdococ: yes, but my "Hello, world!Hello, world!" example still works.
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19:01:38 <int-e> oerjan: if that's your interpreter
19:01:58 <rdococ> What language is this source code, "Hello, world!Hello, world!", written in?
19:02:08 <rdococ> That apparently interprets HQ9+?
19:02:16 <int-e> I believe rdococ may have stumbled on a novel idea here.
19:02:20 <oerjan> that doesn't actually matter.
19:02:27 <rdococ> Stumbled and tripped on a novel idea.
19:02:44 <oerjan> it's novel, i'm just not sure it completely proves the language is capable of quining.
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19:03:25 <int-e> it probably doesn't because you can use all the ways that are typically considered cheating, like that "cat $0" idea.
19:03:37 <rdococ> oerjan: You're probably right - I think it's something to do with causing an arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point.
19:03:49 <shapr> Is there joybot on this channel?
19:04:08 <int-e> also if a language cannot produce any output before receiving any input, which is a more plausible (esoteric) idea.
19:04:29 <rdococ> Imagine a language with only one command, K, that only prints its source code if the input given is I, for example.
19:04:51 <rdococ> You can't cause the effect (quining) at an arbitrary point; at least, not if the input isn't I.
19:04:59 * shapr 's imagining breaks
19:05:34 <oerjan> shapr: i don't recall having joy. we have underload and J though >:)
19:06:09 <oerjan> (underload is the turing tarpit version of joy)
19:06:35 <rdococ> as in, "I can't remember exactly what J is, but if it's what I think it is then I like it."
19:08:20 <oerjan> i think constant-printing REPL commands are usually excluded.
19:09:06 * oerjan doesn't know enough J to do a quine, anyhow.
19:09:07 <rdococ> Ooh, I just had another terrible idea!
19:09:32 <rdococ> (Or Siri. Heck, maybe Cleverbot.)
19:09:58 <rdococ> (Or Alexis. Why did I think Cortana anyway?)
19:10:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
19:12:06 <rdococ> Why do I feel like GHOST could be turned into something more interesting?
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19:20:04 <shapr> Also, does #esoteric have ops?
19:20:31 <shapr> just wondering, since the founder is set to freenode-staff
19:20:44 <shapr> Does founder-ness need to be recovered on this channel?
19:21:37 <int-e> `` dc <<<121272482149097494073462794d110376905358396dPrn100PnP
19:21:38 <HackEgo> dc <<<121272482149097494073462794d110376905358396dPrn100PnP
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19:22:21 <shapr> shachaf: ok, just checking
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19:23:03 <int-e> also, /quote chanserv access #esoteric list
19:23:27 <shachaf> Vorpal: I don't have an RSS reader. hth
19:23:44 <shachaf> Or /msg chanserv for us non-fancy people.
19:24:09 <int-e> in theory, /quote chanserv protects against absence of services
19:24:31 <int-e> (and somebody taking the nick.)
19:24:46 <shachaf> I suppose that's true. IRC is kind of scow.
19:25:10 <int-e> But I don't know whether the freenode servers even have a problem there.
19:25:45 <shachaf> Doesn't really matter for access list, anyway.
19:26:00 <shapr> xu do tavla mi bau la lojban
19:26:14 <shapr> wait, is this only esoteric programming languages?
19:26:15 <shachaf> I guess I could create an evil ChanServ lookalike bot just in case.
19:26:36 <int-e> I have an alias anyway, /cs = quote chanserv... I believe it's an irssi default but I may be misremembering.
19:26:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fi'i: not found
19:26:52 <shachaf> -!- Irssi: Unknown command: cs
19:27:05 <shachaf> Back when I used xchat I think it was a default.
19:27:14 <shachaf> I guess someone needs to make welcome.jbo
19:27:29 <HackEgo> shapr: Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för esoterisk programmeringsspråksdesign och -driftsättning! För mer information, se vår wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
19:27:31 <int-e> ah, yes, it could be that I took it from xchat.
19:28:12 <shapr> jaså! det är jättebra!
19:28:25 <shapr> Nu är jag så glad att traffa ni!
19:28:35 <HackEgo> shapr: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
19:28:52 <shapr> minä en puhu suomea
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19:29:46 <shapr> I don't know any Hebrew, sadly.
19:29:50 <shapr> looks like a fun language.
19:30:01 <shapr> Oh, random question ... the spoken language part of my brain is the same part I use for coding.
19:30:12 <shapr> Most of my coworkers have said they use the math part of their brain for coding
19:30:37 <shachaf> My skull is opaque so I can't see my brain unfortunately.
19:30:39 <shapr> What do the people here consider themselves?
19:30:46 <shachaf> Or maybe my skull is transparent and only the skin is opaque?
19:31:22 <rdococ> At the moment, I'm taking GHOST and making it more useful.
19:31:29 <rdococ> Well, not GHOST, but creating a derivative.
19:31:30 <shapr> shachaf: do you approach programming as if it were poetry/prose? or as if it were a mathematical equation to solve/simplify?
19:31:58 <rdococ> A mathematical equation to solve is mathematical poetry.
19:32:29 <shapr> hm, interesting thought
19:32:41 <shapr> I know proofs can be elegant or ugly
19:33:11 <shachaf> The real question is whether you have a pooch?
19:33:57 <shapr> non, je n'as pas un cabot
19:34:20 <shapr> j'ai une petite amie
19:34:50 <HackEgo> joustelevit pakenne hedeltamiessamme käsi selleen valtasairalla määrästymien tilaukaileva korjateisvat maammiltanne tartamaksi polvittävästä kuolasta rohkansaansa suudattavakseni takottamilta hentämmikseni liehumalta tehdessäsi koettomaisevimpaa
19:35:03 <HackEgo> lingarsamlats sligastet kub kurslag strimfa preniga misse urskogade spar sidisk musidan samman förgångs synen meradikeling tioners balistrafi spet sterskrivits spens
19:35:13 <shapr> hyvää huomenta fizzie !
19:35:23 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Wed Mar 15 19:35:22 2017
19:35:30 <fizzie> Täällä alkaa kyllä jo olla ilta.
19:36:08 <shapr> I spent a solid two years trying to learn Finnish while living in Finland, I failed :-(
19:36:38 <shachaf> Did you learn any esoteric programming languages while you were there?
19:37:27 <fizzie> There's only two matches for "Finnish" in the wiki.
19:37:36 <fizzie> List of ideas, and Poochiewuddledumpling-Boobledarling.
19:37:57 <shapr> I gave a talk to to Georgia Tech Computer Science classes today, about agile programming. I wore the Haskell sweatshirt I got from Edward Kmett. Happily, one of the classes was appreciative of my awesome hoodie.
19:38:59 <shachaf> Those don't sound too esoteric.
19:39:07 <shachaf> Haskell is practically mainstream.
19:39:18 <shapr> Haskell was quite esoteric in 1999
19:40:16 <shapr> just had to start a community
19:41:57 <\oren\> in 15 minutes the dutch election exit polls will be release suposedly
19:42:13 <shapr> ik begrijp het niet!
19:42:15 <\oren\> we shall see whether the nazis win or the other nazis win
19:42:33 <\oren\> erdogan says they're all nazis
19:44:18 <\oren\> so which nazi will be the new ducth prime minister
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19:48:05 <hppavilion> This is the most delightful wikipedia redirect ever: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_one_with_the_whales&redirect=no
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20:02:11 <Vorpal> fizzie: well that was interesting. Apparently converting bzr to hg works flawlessly. But git fast-import fails if I try to convert it to git.
20:02:21 <Vorpal> And looking at the file I see no reason why it should fail
20:02:23 <Vorpal> fatal: Unsupported command: fs/heads/master
20:02:27 <Vorpal> That isn't even in there
20:02:50 <Vorpal> there is "refs/heads/master", but it is only the 870ith instance of that it fails on
20:03:50 <Vorpal> Maybe something is messed up with special characters... Looks like the file checked in just before is a test case with an embedded nul-byte + mixed line endings
20:05:37 <Vorpal> Aha, something went wrong when I patched the file to fix some other issues. Guess sed messes up stuff I didn't expect it to touch
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20:16:05 <fizzie> I was trying to use a Bitbucket hg repository via git-remote-hg, but it stopped working after Mercurial updated to 4.0.
20:16:12 <fizzie> Mixing version control systems is serious business.
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20:44:24 <Vorpal> fizzie: I'm not trying to mix. I'm trying to convert and figure out which one I prefer
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20:45:53 <Vorpal> fizzie: I know I like hg and the tortoisehg frontend, but it seems to me that using a popular version control system has advantages. So I'm trying to figure out if I can stand git and possibly find a good GUI for doing the stuff where a GUI is better (looking at history for example)
20:46:12 <Vorpal> GitKraken seems okay so far, except I can't check out a specific revision with it??
20:46:27 <Vorpal> fizzie: do you have any suggestions for git GUI?
20:47:07 <olsner> what were you doing with sed on the fast-import stream btw?
20:47:56 <Vorpal> olsner: fixing author name and email.
20:48:23 <olsner> isn't there some built-in support for mapping authors?
20:48:54 <Vorpal> olsner: there is for hg convert yes, but I didn't find anything for the bzr fast-export | git fast-import variant
20:49:14 <Vorpal> Maybe I just missed it. But I managed to find the cause of the issue and fix it
20:52:11 <Vorpal> olsner: any git GUI suggestions?
20:52:40 <olsner> what kind of gui? I use terminal for everything except git gui for staging and committing
20:54:10 <olsner> or often just for staging, with git commit for committing since git gui's message editor is less useful than the vim filetype
20:54:56 <Vorpal> olsner: mostly just stuff like merging and rebasing.
20:55:29 <Vorpal> I'm used to hg that has tortoisehg which is *really* good. It has pretty much all the functionality if you want it.
20:56:14 <int-e> there is a tortoisegit
20:56:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: I only know about the CLI tools, no idea about GUIs.
20:56:46 <Vorpal> thought it was just windows :/
20:57:09 <fizzie> My wife's ex-workplace was using something, but I forget exactly what. Does Atlassian make a Git GUI?
20:57:34 <fizzie> Apparently they've got something called SourceTree.
20:57:44 <fizzie> Mac and Windows only, maybe.
20:58:03 <int-e> hmm, wikipedia has a weird description for tortoisehg: "TortoiseHg is a GUI front-end for Mercurial that runs on Microsoft Windows, on which it integrates directly with File Explorer, Mac OS X, and Linux."
20:58:11 <olsner> SourceTree vaguely reminds me of something atlassian bought maybe?
20:58:24 <fizzie> I don't even know if it was that, I just remember it was by some folks I wouldn't first have associated with a git client for general use.
20:58:32 <int-e> anyway, I though tortoisehg was just Windows as well
20:59:03 <Vorpal> fizzie: sourcetree doesn't seem to exist for Linux though
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20:59:10 <fizzie> Vorpal: 20:57 <fizzie> Mac and Windows only, maybe.
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20:59:31 <fizzie> I think I've heard that GitHub Desktop is not actually GitHub-specific, but looks like that's also equally operating-system-deficient.
21:00:01 * int-e uses the CLI tools and gitk for browsing diffs
21:00:03 <Vorpal> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux, well that is a fairly short list
21:00:29 <int-e> (gitk is older than git gui and I was used to gitk when the latter came along... never switched)
21:00:44 <Vorpal> git: 'gui' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
21:01:15 <olsner> iirc gitk and git gui don't have any overlapping features
21:01:24 <int-e> probably an extra package
21:01:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: Some distributions split that off of the rest of Git.
21:01:36 <Vorpal> wow gitk... is that a tk based GUI?
21:01:44 <olsner> git gui is also Tk based
21:01:48 <fizzie> I've occasionally used gitg for browsing diffs and the history.
21:01:51 -!- hppavilion has changed nick to hppavilion.
21:01:58 <fizzie> It's pretty much just "gitk except GTK".
21:02:12 <fizzie> Haven't ever tried to make commits from it.
21:02:13 <int-e> Vorpal: 'git gui' will look for a /use/lib/git-core/git-grep (the -core part may be a debian thing, hmm)
21:02:30 <Vorpal> gitg, another one to check out
21:02:42 <fizzie> The only git GUI I've actually used a little (very little) is the native git integration of Android Studio (/IntelliJ).
21:03:35 <int-e> I think it's too late for me. the git-grep is supposed to be git-gui; I used `locate git-grep` to find the path :/
21:03:38 <Vorpal> gitkraken is really slow on this fairly old computer.
21:13:22 <Vorpal> smartgit seems okay in performance. Super-complicated GUI though. Like 10 different panels thrown in your face from the get go. 11 menus at the top. Two toolbars.
21:15:48 <Vorpal> Also apparently supports hg. Also it automatically scans $HOME for repositories.
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21:20:02 <Vorpal> well, I'll look more into this in the future
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21:59:25 <AdvBot> hppavilion: You have successfully tested with the argument: hppavilion is a modern Prometheus
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22:22:32 <\oren\> hppavilion: your bot's connection seems just as patchy as yours
22:23:24 <shachaf> are you using https://prometheus.io/ hth
22:23:28 <hppavilion> \oren\: A lot of it is me killing it myself, but also, yeah, I'm having a bit of internet trouble
22:23:42 <hppavilion> shachaf: No, it's locally hosted at the moment for development
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23:09:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Evil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51375&oldid=51372 * Serprex * (-12) tc
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23:34:33 <oerjan> <shapr> Does founder-ness need to be recovered on this channel? <-- is that even possible?
23:35:23 <shachaf> Yes, you can set the founder.
23:35:38 <oerjan> i mean, by freenode policy
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23:37:23 <shachaf> Who actually made this channel, anyway?
23:37:43 <oerjan> the founder used to be andreou.
23:38:08 <oerjan> whether he was the first, i don't know - i don't recall seeing him active.
23:41:32 <oerjan> fizzie would have been the obvious to take over if freenode hadn't changed its policy.
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23:48:00 <fizzie> My logs don't show who were on the channel when I joined, just that it was 6 other people, one of which was a bot.
23:49:59 <fizzie> Looking at later messages, seems to have been navigator, lament, dmc and exarkun. I can't tell who the last non-bot one was, or who came first.
23:52:00 <fizzie> (navigator == andreou.)
23:56:16 <fizzie> According to the mailing list archives, Andreou did set us up here on 9 Dec 2002.
23:56:28 <fizzie> (After a false start as #esoterica in EFnet.)
23:56:55 <fizzie> Also means the channel will turn 15 this year.
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