< 1489795652 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1489795657 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1489795662 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is everyone? < 1489795720 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1489795775 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your favorite game zzo38 < 1489795854 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depend on what kinds of games it can be and so on I think, and even then I think I do not quite have the favourites < 1489795998 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:HI9+14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51381 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+249) 10/* Quines in HI9+ */ new section < 1489796030 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1489796038 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there no game you spend more time with than others? < 1489796042 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1489796081 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there isn't a game I spend much more time with than others, and I do not keep track of such thing much < 1489796104 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evenitopia < 1489796137 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489796248 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode : < 1489796249 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+003A COLON] < 1489796259 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1489796262 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? number < 1489796264 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of the hour is 14. < 1489796279 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp number < 1489796280 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​𝕈:𝕈 would be the set of rational numbers, if the Unicode Consortium weren't idiots who put it as ℚ. \ algebraic number theory:The theory of algebraic numbers was invented by Fermat to prove his theorem, but he didn't have room to write it down. \ bezout's theorem:Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the co < 1489796314 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` icode "`grwp number | head -1`" < 1489796321 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D548 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 88 UTF-16BE: d835dd48 Decimal: 𝕈 \ 𝕈 (𝕈) \ Uppercase: U+1D548 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \ \ U+003A COLON \ UTF-8: 3a UTF-16BE: 003a Decimal: : \ : \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: CS (Common Number Separator) \ \ U+1D548 - No such < 1489796330 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1489796762 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you looking for < 1489796879 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strange character at the start of `grwp number < 1489796911 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect whoever added that was just complaining that ℚ had the wrong codepoint. < 1489796939 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`icode ℚ < 1489796940 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+211A DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL Q] < 1489796999 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+1D549 < 1489796999 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​𝕉 < 1489797015 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode U+1D549 < 1489797016 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D549 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 89 UTF-16BE: d835dd49 Decimal: 𝕉 \ 𝕉 (𝕉) \ Uppercase: U+1D549 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) < 1489797030 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode U+1D54A < 1489797031 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D54A MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL S \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 8a UTF-16BE: d835dd4a Decimal: 𝕊 \ 𝕊 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0053 < 1489797038 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah as i suspected < 1489797069 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode U+1D54B < 1489797071 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1D54B MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK CAPITAL T \ UTF-8: f0 9d 95 8b UTF-16BE: d835dd4b Decimal: 𝕋 \ 𝕋 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ Decomposition: 0054 < 1489797081 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaya. < 1489797086 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that wisdom was off by 1. < 1489797114 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, U+1D549 would seem to be where R would fit, not U+1D548. < 1489797133 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1489797136 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me. < 1489797158 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the same complaint goes for R as well. < 1489797672 0 :Akaibu!uid118096@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nodxrbbfsxvtmhao QUIT : < 1489797680 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489798621 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1489798628 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the consortium had good reason < 1489798631 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure < 1489798671 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+211B < 1489798672 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ℛ < 1489798687 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+2119 < 1489798688 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ℙ < 1489798702 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er < 1489798712 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, reasons that aren't that good maybe < 1489798942 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode U+25FB < 1489798943 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+25FB WHITE MEDIUM SQUARE \ UTF-8: e2 97 bb UTF-16BE: 25fb Decimal: ◻ \ ◻ \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1489798947 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode U+1F78F < 1489798948 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F78F MEDIUM WHITE SQUARE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9e 8f UTF-16BE: d83ddf8f Decimal: 🞏 \ 🞏 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1489799544 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1489800156 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1489800665 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pbmklrckxtvbxcgh JOIN :#esoteric < 1489801469 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489801761 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489801980 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489802720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1489804693 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489804872 0 :augur_!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489804897 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489805428 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489805483 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1489809068 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489809314 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489811682 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489811714 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489811867 0 :hppavilion[0]!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1489811909 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW WORD: When referring to the equivalent of Google-Fu for a DuckDuckGo user, it may be referred to as "Duckwongo" < 1489811976 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489812112 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489812798 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489813518 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489813592 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1489813602 0 :hppavilion[0]!?@? NICK :hppavilion[1] < 1489814856 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if putting X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* will poison peoples' logs < 1489816302 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489816426 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489816715 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1489817872 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that the eicar test file appears only twice in my logs < 1489818231 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pbmklrckxtvbxcgh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1489823659 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489823916 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489824501 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1489825467 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489826721 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1489828005 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1489828634 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zemcurka6b9s6d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1489830621 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489831621 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489832414 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489832852 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489833240 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good-bye CaC. We had a great time together, but it just won't work out. < 1489833426 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489833527 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? CaC < 1489833529 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaC? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1489833563 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also CaaC: http://www.cloudatacost.com/ < 1489833659 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically CaC has just redefined "one-time payment" to include an extra annual $9 fee. < 1489833662 0 :MoALTz!~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1489833714 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be reasonable really... but rather than telling the customers that there's a new fee, they buried the fact at 1/3 of 8k terms of service. < 1489833721 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :8k *words* < 1489833899 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor might want to know that? It's point 9.18 of their ToS, it may or may not apply, depends on whether you have a monthly paid product. < 1489833934 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I have had great experience with linode. Way more expensive than 9 per year of course < 1489833949 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the support has been good the one time I needed it. < 1489833978 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm currently with Ramnode... no bad experiences there either though I haven't really needed support. < 1489833982 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: reboot < 1489833986 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while not needing support at all would have been better, it is good to know that if you need it, they are happy to help within a couple of hours. < 1489834015 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah I had a strange issue with the kvm host, they quickly migrated my VPS to another node < 1489834028 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :No issues since then < 1489834068 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been happy with prgmr, the biggest issue of which seems to be that their data centre is in the US and not Europe < 1489834104 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: which is the reason I went with linode. Way less lag when using ssh to london than to us < 1489834125 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1489834146 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mosh I don't really mind IRCing on a VPS in the US < 1489834159 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a good point < 1489834167 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I love prgmr's web site though < 1489834203 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like mosh because I never been a fan of screen or tmux and mosh destroys the normal scrollback of the terminal < 1489834210 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489834262 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also while mosh helps on a bad connection, it isn't perfect sadly. Especially in ncurses programs < 1489834265 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, one ticket, because I had a screen session completely disappear without trace and I asked them whether they had any logs... they replied promptly, though (unsurprisingly they didn't have any information). They did tell me that they didn't migrate the VPS which was more information than I expected.) < 1489834298 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no segfault, no OOM kill... just strange) < 1489834302 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wouldn't they tell you in advance if they migrated? < 1489834321 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they told me :P < 1489834324 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :With linode I always got advance warning for any outage (critical host security upgrades and so on) < 1489834341 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't do migrations without notice" < 1489834364 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I would say that any hosting company that did migrations without notice would be a bad one < 1489834467 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I'm a bit clueless about how transparent that can be made these days. If one could migrate a VPS while preserving network connections with handover in less than, say, 10 seconds, that's something people might do without notice. < 1489834496 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we're all listing these, I've gone through prgmr, Tilaa and DigitalOcean. < 1489834507 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it disrupts network connections it's a no-go for any hoster worth its salt. < 1489834538 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489834567 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I don't think that is doable in general given how most VPS are set up. You would need to use network-backed disk images. iSCSI or something like that. Which from what I heard from someone who works in the business, is not worth the overhead. It is much cheaper to have local disk images on RAID with backups < 1489834599 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then migration needs to shut down the VM, copy the images across and start the VM on the new host < 1489834607 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :network is probably the easy part < 1489834771 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that CaC. < 1489834821 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1489834907 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those rascals. < 1489834959 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Linode but I keep hearing it's terrible. < 1489834965 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With regard to security and other things? < 1489834991 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should switch to Google Cloud now that their free trial expires in 12 months rather than 60 days. < 1489835040 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still need to figure out a way to use it that wouldn't be a squander. < 1489835041 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Cloud here in Europe is only for "commercial" use. < 1489835055 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've talked about that. < 1489835059 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move to MTV? < 1489835059 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: an english speaking source picked up on the new fee... https://blog.matthewkilpatrick.uk/cloudatcost-review/ ... hmm. < 1489835107 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("hmm" is me wondering whether there's any connection to #esoteric or whether somebody else actually read the ToS ;-) ) < 1489835139 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay $20/month for my Linode VM. < 1489835141 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: One scow thing is that Google Domains in UK has the same restriction. < 1489835161 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend moving to sunny Mountain View, California. < 1489835237 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to get shot, and I understand that's what happens to everyone in the US. < 1489835241 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I worked at Google I got a free (I think?) domain through Google Domains. < 1489835254 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I don't work there anymore but I still use it for that one domain. < 1489835258 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how they get you. < 1489835286 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I migrated my two .org's to Hover, but they don't do .fi. < 1489835302 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Gandi for .fi and another domain. < 1489835305 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://help.hover.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/210362567-Support-for-fi-domains plz upvote < 1489835351 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to make a Hover account just to click on an arrow. < 1489835372 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I can click the arrow even without an account, it just redirects me to a login page. < 1489835377 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that much. < 1489835378 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1489835380 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1489835396 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, I appreciate the effort. < 1489835412 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean that .fi switched to a registrar model? < 1489835429 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that there were changes but not the details. Except that registration would be open to everyone or something like that. < 1489835441 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I already had a domain registered through Gandi before. < 1489835453 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be so that you bought your domain directly from the registry. < 1489835455 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sent me a letter about it all the way to the US. But the letter was in Finnish. < 1489835470 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in this case was the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority. < 1489835527 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The model they switched to is the more standard one where an end user never deals directly with the registry, but instead goes through a registrar. < 1489835552 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I already used a registrar once. < 1489835560 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it was an exceptional case or something? < 1489835580 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( There's an arrow?! ) < 1489835585 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they were technically registrars, they were just unrelated companies that bought and managed a domain for you. < 1489835598 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Wherever voting happens, there's always an Arrow. < 1489835616 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1489835631 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, I actually know about that theorem :) < 1489835645 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it doesn't apply to pure binary choices though < 1489835654 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. Well, nice of them to do it in exchange for $20 or however much I paid them. < 1489835669 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I was wondering whether someone would nitpick my pun. < 1489835697 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want: Voting on feature requests is a question of prioritizing the next request. < 1489835703 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I meant is this, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/novelicons.png < 1489835708 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each person can vote each feature up or down. < 1489835737 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(noscript is blocking the font. but why must it be a font...) < 1489835739 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old model also had some eligibility requirements that were deprecated, so it is also more open to everyone now. < 1489835770 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a font with private use code points? How odd. < 1489835784 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that part is unfortunate. < 1489835784 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has become fairly common < 1489835799 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I got a two-character .fi domain. < 1489835821 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately it's difficult to pronounce. < 1489835837 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like I'm talking about a county in England. < 1489835841 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was this close |-| to getting zzie.fi instead of zem.fi. < 1489835854 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzie38.fi < 1489835869 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the etymology of zem.fi anyway? < 1489836013 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, github switched to inline SVGs instead, sweet. < 1489836018 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No one really knows what mattresses are meant to gain from their lives either. They are large, friendly, pocket-sprung creatures which live quiet private lives in the marshes of Squornshellous Zeta. Many of them get caught, slaughtered, dried out, shipped out and slept on. None of them seem to mind and all of them are called Zem." < 1489836023 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ^ < 1489836034 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, those < 1489836063 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1489836104 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a Douglas Adams hostname naming scheme at the time. < 1489836133 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though a big part was to find a free three-letter name.) < 1489836169 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. time to make up another crappy language thing. < 1489836225 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. many years on the internet and I'm just now getting around to looking at semper.fi < 1489836247 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, it has nothing to do with the US Marine Corp < 1489836248 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1489836471 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So many good .fi names were created 12.9.2016 :'( < 1489836497 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've taken the opportunity to preëmpt them. < 1489836538 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the whois "created" date isn't accurate, anyway. < 1489836676 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489836847 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :always fun to setup a new VM... I never recall how to get rid of systemd. < 1489836936 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd hth < 1489836942 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1489836965 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemdum and systemd / agreed to have a battle < 1489836995 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh < 1489837026 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dodgson is probably spinning in his grave. < 1489837063 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the poem is much older than that. < 1489837077 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION spins
< 1489837427 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1489837793 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1489837811 0 :s1feha!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1489838215 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteria < 1489838227 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoterraria? < 1489838264 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489838411 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do want to try and set up a Linux distro with no GNU Software components. Possibly I should try to make it not have systemd either < 1489839227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1489839646 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489840150 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1489840152 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity//Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it. < 1489840158 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1489840246 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does that mean that Taneb didn't have it when they invented it...) < 1489840428 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? insanity < 1489840429 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1489840458 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1489840459 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489840467 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my defining characteristic then? < 1489840468 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1489840472 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for int-e is Sat Mar 18 13:34:27 2017 < 1489840475 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c9d6:6dfb:41b7:8acb JOIN :#esoteric < 1489840486 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time lambdabot < 1489840486 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? < 1489840495 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good, just checking. < 1489840626 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time HackEgo < 1489840853 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello, rdochelloc, lambdabellot, Tanelle. < 1489840865 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? rdococ < 1489840866 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but probably not. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom. < 1489840887 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ↑ your characteristic. < 1489840958 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not my defining characteristic. that's my alleged place of residence and note that I am approaching permanent boredom. < 1489841722 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, it's very defining ^^ < 1489841770 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're apparently, but not seemingly. possibly, but probably not. extremely precise! < 1489841782 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1489841794 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only remaining detail is if you're approaching boredom from the left or the right. < 1489841822 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489841872 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru < 1489841906 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a limit < 1489841914 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :approaching infinite boredom < 1489841937 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :limit x->boredom e^x < 1489841981 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: PERPENDICULAR CHICKEN < 1489842128 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1489842146 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-npqqfkjrvevzbhtq QUIT :Excess Flood < 1489842179 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-khlzkgxjnxfcrmjf JOIN :#esoteric < 1489842733 0 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nyupcrkwftymyqek JOIN :#esoteric < 1489843119 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:8300:2b03:98c7:f75d:9842:3f34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1489843322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1489843367 0 :augur!~augur@2601:645:8300:2b03:98c7:f75d:9842:3f34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1489843380 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489843506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1489843789 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1489843999 0 :s1feha!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489844009 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1489844115 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489844295 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489844686 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1489846133 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imposes sanctions on rdococ
< 1489846162 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm like the UN: my sanctions don't mean anything < 1489846174 0 :Robdgreat!~rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just make me feel better < 1489847150 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to rdococ I found out about the NO_ACT ignore level in irssi. It's perfect! < 1489847193 0 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1489847334 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I'm trying to like (or at least get accustomed to) git, but I can't help thinking that for the most part I prefer hg. < 1489847373 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me it's the same, except with "git" and "hg" swapped. < 1489847417 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1489847448 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I would have objective reasons in favor of hg. It's easier to *teach*, for example, because the separate staging area in git tends to confuse people.) < 1489847478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the staging thing in git is just, like, you have to tell it which files you're going to commit, right? < 1489847501 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the main point I think for me is that for many VCS tasks I prefer a gui, and TortoiseHg for Linux is exceptionally excellent. The Git GUIs for Linux I have tried so far aren't nearly as good. Or have much less functionality. Or are fully featured but uses 500 MB RAM because of java. < 1489847511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely one of those things which just causes friction when you're getting started, because you have no feel for why you'd want it < 1489847530 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the thing that confuses people is that there are two uncommitted diffs, so to speak: git diff --cached (changes to be committed) and git diff (further changes). < 1489847556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the godawful git UI strikes again < 1489847574 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular git diff may produce unexpected output ("I had changes, where did they go?") < 1489847593 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: indeed, git UI is the main sticking point, or GUI in my case. If there was a good GUI to hide the UI I would be fine with it, < 1489847616 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I like the in-repo branches and mercurial just doesn't work nicely that way... < 1489847641 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it does have named branches, a bit more heavyweight than how git treats that concept < 1489847675 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in git, isn't a branch basically just a movable label? < 1489847694 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1489847709 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :while in hg it is an attribute of a commit that is by default (unless you create a new branch) inherited to child commits. < 1489847789 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there is a bookmark extension that works more like git branches I think < 1489847795 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it much < 1489847798 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most fundamental UI mistake in hg I've uncovered so far is the revision identified by "tip", which should have a name like "the-revision-that-somehow-currently-is-at-the-top-of-the-stored-file-history-unrelated-to-whatever-you-have-checked-out-and-are-working-on" or something to that effect. < 1489847799 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at all really) < 1489847827 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes agreed, that tip doesn't mean much < 1489847838 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had initially mapped "tip" to git's "HEAD", and that caused *a lot* of issues. < 1489847863 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: for me, using tortoisehg for most of the stuff I do with hg, it is just a label in the GUI I don't really care about. I think you can hide it even. < 1489847864 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(git's HEAD is "revision currently checked out") < 1489847882 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm addicted to command lines *shrugs* < 1489847900 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually am too. Not for version control for some reason though < 1489847926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean version histories are a pretty textbook example of "something better presented graphically" < 1489847971 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: which is why I have a hard time getting to like git I think. None of the GUIs are great. They all have one fatal flaw or another so far. < 1489847972 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a gui for browsing history. But not for creating commits... < 1489848062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the classic thing where command lines work great for input but are lousy at output < 1489848065 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you get something like a staging area if you want in tortoisehg even, a list of files with checkboxes (or even diff chunks with the right hg extension loaded) that are to be included in the commit. It remembers what you checked too (until you close that repository). < 1489848093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guis can display information really effectively but can be clumsy and bloated when you try to manipulate it < 1489848104 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: by default everything is checked, but I saw a setting somewhere for setting an expression for "auto uncheck". Presumably you could set that to "*" if you want or such < 1489848245 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a "hg record" extension (stolen from darcs) which, like git commit --interactive, is based on darcs' "record" command... so doing partial commits is quite possible in all these tools < 1489848261 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, redundancy, how I love thee, how I love thee. < 1489848347 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah enabling the record extension lets you select specific file chunks in tortoisehg if you want < 1489848396 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: also I love the MQ extension, patch queues. It is very well integrated into tortoisehg, letting you split and fold patches very easily. Reorder your commits prior to pushing. < 1489848429 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use branches and git rebase -i for that in git < 1489848466 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would likely work too, as long as you remember what you want to push and what you don't want to push. < 1489848503 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are powerful enough and they are very similar, but just different enough to trip anybody who tries to use on of them like the other. Switching between them is really painful. < 1489848543 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1489848582 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use hg at work, so there is going to be that for the forseeable future. I just wonder to which version control system I should migrate my old bzr projects < 1489848583 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1489848595 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they have clashing vocabulary... like "pull" vs. "fetch" or "pull -u") < 1489848901 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: git doesn't check out sub-repos by default it appears < 1489848906 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that annoys me compared to hg < 1489849052 0 :s1feha!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1489849841 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it seems by default git doesn't treat sub modules as they exist when doing operations on the main repository, letting you do stupid stuff by mistake. < 1489850155 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1489850156 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/quotes < 1489850192 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1489850196 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? insanity < 1489850197 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1489850208 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn insanity//You are just imagining this wisdom entity. < 1489850210 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'insanity': You are just imagining this wisdom entity. < 1489850226 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp imagin < 1489850227 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark water:Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imagination. \ hackego:HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. Ha < 1489850236 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`2 grwp imagin < 1489850238 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/5:sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! \ hallucination:You are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ imaginary unit:The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love \ insanity:You are just imagining this wisdom entity. \ Binary file reflection matches \ soviet russia:Soviet Russia used to be a syno < 1489850246 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1489850247 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/5:nym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of its imagination. \ zarutian:You can trust Zarutian. He fixes, as an electronics technician, banal mistakes of electronics engineers. Rather cy(ph|b)erpunkish in outlook regarding the 'Net. Knows more a < 1489850255 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1489850262 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n 5 < 1489850263 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5/5:Even though the Icelandic unnerver has its own. < 1489850303 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zarutian's verbosity is no match for my intelligence < 1489850322 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1489850416 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp Imagin < 1489850418 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine:Imagine was the only song not interrupted after two stanzas on the opening ceremony of the 2012 London Olympic Games, a calm moment in an otherwise chaotic rush through fifty pop songs. \ Binary file reflection matches < 1489850539 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slwd insanity//s/Y/Unless you are boily, y/ < 1489850541 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity//Unless you are boily, you are just imagining this wisdom entity. < 1489850618 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does grwp stand for? < 1489850619 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hi! < 1489850644 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: grep wisdom < 1489850686 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1489850691 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also good afternoon < 1489850725 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/grwp < 1489850726 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#! /bin/bash \ cd wisdom; shopt -s dotglob; grep -R "$@" -- * < 1489850727 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1489850778 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been working on a Euclidean Geometry renderer < 1489850794 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it has a few flaws < 1489850806 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't work out where two circles intersect < 1489850852 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need algebraic numbers < 1489850873 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can make do with constructible numbers < 1489850882 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY. < 1489850892 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know how to implement either in C :( < 1489850902 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just the subset reachable with square roots. < 1489850903 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: can't you just approximate it with floats? < 1489850912 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489850925 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: so use a different programming language ;) < 1489850966 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, currently I am approximating it with longs < 1489850967 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(smiley because I rather suspect that this isn't the real problem... though C is bound to make this stuff quite verbose) < 1489850980 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, ah, but you see, my long term goal is to enter the IOCCC < 1489850999 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well, at least prototype in a different programming language < 1489851028 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to avoid bridging too many levels of abstraction at once < 1489851160 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the circles have radii r, R and distance D, then you get some pythagoras r^2 = h^2 + x^2; R^2 = h^2 + X^2, x+X = D < 1489851191 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1489851251 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the intersections being h away on the normal between them at distance x and X from either. < 1489851284 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if the centres are at (-x,0), (X,0), the intersections are at (0, +-h) < 1489851339 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no solutions if r+R < D. < 1489851383 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or r+D < R or R+D < r, i guess. < 1489851470 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :r^2 - R^2 = x^2 - X^2 = D*(x - X) < 1489851543 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric := D*(D - 2*X), so X = D - (r^2 - R^2)/D < 1489851563 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *X = (D - (r^2 - R^2)/D)/2 < 1489851588 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not a square root in sight, can that be right < 1489851601 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'll get one in h, of course) < 1489851685 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = (D + (r^2 - R^2)/D)/2 < 1489851697 0 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489851730 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :h^2 = x^2 - r^2 = urm < 1489851838 0 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489851841 0 :MDead!?@? NICK :MDude < 1489851904 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think about some IOCCC submission ideas too… < 1489851962 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric := D^2/4 + (r^2 - R^2)/2 + (r^2 - R^2)/(4*D^2) - r^2 < 1489852034 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah never mind, you should already have x and r. < 1489852090 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ^ < 1489852160 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual, my attempt to think math attracts noise from the neighbors. < 1489854348 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu TOPIC #esoteric :Wanted: long-lived topic | The exact geometry channel | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1489855108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489856468 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1489856497 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1489856771 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1489857179 0 :kiki`!uid170954@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orotwkijkvdgjska JOIN :#esoteric < 1489857664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1489859132 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zemcurka6b9s6d.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1489859874 0 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Many thanks < 1489859874 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1489861429 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489861438 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489862073 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489863507 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is QUIT :Quit: Zarutian < 1489864260 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-210-157-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489865742 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489865949 0 :s1feha!~s1feha@ip4d16fc58.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1489866806 0 :yabi!~jiaw@95.143.193.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1489867095 0 :yabi!~jiaw@95.143.193.8 QUIT :Client Quit < 1489867186 0 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489867205 0 :hakatashi!~hakatashi@104.131.49.125 JOIN :#esoteric < 1489867234 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489868023 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Quit: hmm < 1489868194 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1489868409 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1489868432 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-44-58.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document is draft of picture format of TAVERN http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/tavern.ui/wiki?name=Pictures You can write comment/suggestion/question/complaint of it please. < 1489868926 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1489868928 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1489868934 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1489868934 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1489868936 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@version < 1489868936 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot 5.1.0.1 < 1489868936 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot < 1489869022 0 :Zarutian!~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is JOIN :#esoteric < 1489869028 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1489869318 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1489869393 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489869681 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1489870033 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489871968 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-khlzkgxjnxfcrmjf QUIT :Excess Flood < 1489872209 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lhjfpnmggbknieye JOIN :#esoteric < 1489872376 0 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1489873880 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lhjfpnmggbknieye QUIT :Excess Flood < 1489873914 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( lambdabot: so how do you like NYC? ) < 1489873949 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dfprzdqljoxzaams JOIN :#esoteric < 1489873998 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dfprzdqljoxzaams QUIT :Excess Flood < 1489874038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1489874069 0 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-hytsxbnnjidrqndu JOIN :#esoteric < 1489878162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1489880252 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489880283 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1489880442 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1489880443 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foe//the foe is the Field-On Enemy < 1489880454 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :F O E! F O E! ♪ < 1489880522 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's writing a foeilleton? < 1489880543 0 :tromp!~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1489880546 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though perhaps that's not musical. < 1489880586 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( a floete is an unfriendly instrument ) < 1489880746 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thwacks int-e. 0.20 FP.
< 1489880777 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_PVPyn6n8 < 1489880835 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1489880885 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. < 1489880902 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily. < 1489880914 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-gold < 1489880914 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb said 5h 50m 39s ago: Many thanks < 1489880959 0 :zgrepc!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wyxgagglqrkbdorm QUIT :Excess Flood < 1489881002 0 :zgrepc!sid43445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgitdmluykttuuaz JOIN :#esoteric < 1489881053 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lambdabot in new york now? < 1489881090 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( surely you weren't keeping it on CaC... ) < 1489881120 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaC? < 1489881134 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask lambdabot hellombdabot. where are you? < 1489881134 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1489881148 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloud at cost < 1489881161 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where HackEgo still is < 1489881179 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that Wretched Thing. < 1489881217 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: So how do you like Canada? < 1489881293 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziello. Canada isn't wretched hth < 1489881310 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's where CaC lives. < 1489881333 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kwdatacentre.com/ <- there < 1489881346 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1489881369 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Kitchener" is a funny name.) < 1489881388 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So's "Kirkland".) < 1489881477 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Kirkland. it's Costco's inhouse brand. it's made of good. < 1489881489 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a city, I think. < 1489881501 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we've got an office there. < 1489881540 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://careers.google.com/locations/seattle-kirkland/ apparently so < 1489881564 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a suburb in the West Island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkland,_Quebec < 1489881581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you moving to Kirkland?