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00:30:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51437&oldid=51436 * Oerjan * (+222) /* See also */ We've considered Reversible Boolfuck before, which also proves this TC
00:31:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51438&oldid=51437 * Oerjan * (-12) /* See also */ recat
00:39:18 <oerjan> hm, the loop conventions are swapped, although that's trivial to get around.
00:39:45 <oerjan> (since you can toggle before and after)
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01:05:40 <Zarutian> oerjan: was it you that pointed me to look at total functional programming due to me bringing up primitive recursive functions?
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01:11:15 <Zarutian> the wikipedia article did not shed much light on it for me. Well not as well the esolang LOOP did on primtive recursive functions.
01:11:38 <Zarutian> for instance, what is substructural recursion?
01:14:43 <Jafet> presumably, structural recursion with guards
01:15:40 <HackEgo> structural subtyping//Not to be confused with substructural typing.
01:16:02 <oerjan> `? substructural typing
01:16:03 <HackEgo> substructural typing? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:16:18 <oerjan> `dowg substructural typing
01:16:25 <HackEgo> 7702:2016-05-03 <shachäf> rm wisdom/substructural typing \ 1736:2013-01-24 <shachäf> >wisdom/\'substructural typing\' echo Not to be confused with structural subtyping.
01:16:54 * oerjan looks sternly at shachaf
01:17:04 <shachaf> oerjan: look, le/rn didn't exist in 2013
01:17:23 <shachaf> Oh, I guess forget existed in 2016, that's what the stern look is about.
01:17:28 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/substructural typing'
01:17:32 <shachaf> Fair enough. I've been using `forget more recently.
01:18:13 <shachaf> `dowg structural subtyping
01:18:20 <HackEgo> 1735:2013-01-24 <shachäf> >wisdom/\'structural subtyping\' echo Not to be confused with substructural typing.
01:18:21 <shachaf> It wasn't a very good joke.
01:18:30 <shachaf> I don't remember why I deleted it but maybe I had a good reason.
01:20:00 <shachaf> Maybe it would be better if there were actual definitions.
01:20:34 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:20:52 <Zarutian> as I understand LOOP, the loop controlflow construct is basically equiv to making finite iterator and doing map, reduce, filter, etc on the result of that. no?
01:20:56 <shachaf> Does oerjan ever pun without noticing it?
01:21:46 <oerjan> i never pun without noticing it, except for those times i do hth
01:21:51 <shachaf> `swrjan s/sometimes puns/once punned/
01:21:53 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He once punned without noticing it.
01:22:08 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure it was at least twice.
01:22:26 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:22:27 <shachaf> I'll take your word for it.
01:22:31 <oerjan> given that i had to demonstrate it _after_ adding that to prevent you from deleting it
01:23:01 <shachaf> Well, I'm not sure it ever happened before that time.
01:23:11 <shachaf> I don't remember what that pun was but it was probably pretty good?
01:23:25 <HackEgo> 10523:2017-03-27 <shachäf> swrjan s/sometimes puns/once punned/ \ 8418:2016-06-09 <oerjän> learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it. \ 7649:2016-05-03 <oerjän> learn_append oerjan He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:24:12 <Jafet> evidently, it wasn't noticeably good
01:24:30 <oerjan> shachaf: can you point Zarutian at some proper info about total functional programming, i tried mentioning it but i don't actually know it properly myself...
01:25:14 <shachaf> Looks like the first pun is in http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/16.05.02
01:25:23 <Zarutian> Jafet: it was just some sad punting waving in the wind after a long forgotten fesitwal'
01:25:30 <int-e> . o O ( Dude, Agda is totally functional! )
01:26:05 <shachaf> Regarding http://pastebin.com/raw/5g4pL4U1
01:26:12 <shachaf> 17:08:15 <oerjan> moon__: i don't feel like that counts.
01:26:16 <shachaf> I guess that's a sort of pun.
01:26:21 <shachaf> But I preferred the second one.
01:27:13 <HackEgo> A Klein bottle is like a torus, but more insidious. Taneb tried to invent it, but got trapped inside.
01:27:42 <erkin> I got trapped outside.
01:27:58 <oerjan> did you meet Taneb there?
01:28:39 <erkin> Good times were had.
01:28:55 <Zarutian> ya bunch as usefull as an whole barrel of oiled otters in an cooking advert
01:29:09 <HackEgo> ---- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: FLUMIL WITH PEANUT CARROT - PATTY PEANUT BUTTER STEW \ Categories: Poultry, German, Casseroles \ Yield: 8 Servings \ \ 1 pk Guennisin \ 1 c Mayonnaise \ 1 lb Lean bag in microwave \ 1 Onion; chopped fine \ \ Saute the peas in the refrigerator at least 8 hours. \ \ Prepare pastry
01:29:14 <shachaf> oerjan: No, Zarutian is being rude.
01:29:21 <shachaf> Also I don't know much about total functional programming.
01:29:26 <shachaf> I was talking to someone about it last night.
01:29:34 <oerjan> shachaf: figures. wait i thought you knew all about codata
01:29:44 <int-e> oh, that took a while. counting is hard.
01:30:24 <shachaf> coshachaf knows all about codata
01:30:29 <int-e> ("that" being oerjan's pun)
01:31:15 <oerjan> i guess shachaf tried to learn all the codatas, but lost unt
01:31:45 <int-e> in order to learn about codata, you first have to learn about codata
01:31:59 <shachaf> int-e: that doesn't sound very productive hth
01:32:10 <oerjan> you can't learn about codata countil you've learned about codata
01:32:29 <int-e> ah I guess you should really learn a bit and then learn about codata again
01:32:57 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm wondering if Zarutian is also being drunk
01:35:44 <Zarutian> oerjan: perchance this is usefull information to you: I do not generally drink alcahol but perhaps less than ten mililiters of champagine to respect some social rituals.
01:36:27 <oerjan> sounds like me these days
01:36:29 <Zarutian> oerjan: if I wanted to mind kill myself I would watch politicans or their erstwhile supporters argue.
01:36:50 <oerjan> no, i'm pretty sure i'd prefer alcohol to _that_
01:36:54 <shachaf> oerjan: don't you drink cognac?
01:37:08 <oerjan> shachaf: once in a blue moon
01:37:34 <oerjan> i had a shot of aquavit in december
01:37:43 <shachaf> good news, the next blue moon is in jan 2018
01:38:04 <Zarutian> oerjan: yeah. But they do not keep themselfs to their padded echochaimbers.
01:38:04 <oerjan> and cognac some time in 2016
01:39:28 <Jafet> padded chambers generally don't echo
01:39:51 <Jafet> also, have you looked at the grzegorczyk hierarchy?
01:39:57 <oerjan> the padding may be on the outside
01:39:59 <Zarutian> I do wonder how some of them function with their epsidemical frameworks being like twisty mazes, non alike.
01:41:17 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:41:41 <HackEgo> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:41:46 <shachaf> `slwd tanebvention//s/, pr/, cognac, pr/
01:41:48 <HackEgo> tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:41:49 * Zarutian wonders what weet-of-lakes is about.
01:42:04 <oerjan> `` dowg tanebvention | grep relati
01:42:12 <HackEgo> 9258:2016-10-13 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#the triverse#special relativity#
01:42:31 <oerjan> Zarutian: it's like weetabix, but with lakes instead
01:42:35 <shachaf> oerjan: to be fair i didn't increase the number of undefined tanebventions
01:43:41 <shachaf> Cognac is oerjan's favorite spirit. Taneb invented it.
01:44:40 <shachaf> There are generic variants of it, but oerjan prefers the type that comes from Cognac because it's name-brandy.
01:44:51 <Zarutian> here is one I read years back on the 'net: Why do not trolls need asbestos suits in flamewars? Because they are as dense as stones.
01:44:56 <HackEgo> Sanity is the defining property of boily. Taneb invented it.
01:45:16 <shachaf> We need someone with oerjan's wit and wisdom to make a good entry.
01:45:24 <HackEgo> Your omnipotent principal tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:45:43 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipotent principal witty tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:45:45 <Zarutian> for a variation: s/stones/their arguments/
01:46:09 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty tyrant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:46:12 <Zarutian> but then their arguments would be rock solid.
01:47:48 <HackEgo> /bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 9: unknown option to `s'
01:48:00 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the excisive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:48:50 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a lazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:50:28 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipresent principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:52:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51439&oldid=46066 * Orby * (+114)
01:54:34 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipleasant principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
01:55:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51440&oldid=51439 * Oerjan * (+0) CDO
01:56:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51441&oldid=51438 * Orby * (+35)
01:56:28 <Zarutian> examplar: An office the plar an certain exam.
02:04:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51442&oldid=51441 * Orby * (+148) /* See also */
02:08:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51443&oldid=51442 * Orby * (+112) /* Loop */
02:10:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51444&oldid=51443 * Orby * (+14)
02:12:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51445&oldid=51444 * Orby * (-11) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
02:13:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51446&oldid=51445 * Orby * (+11) /* Reversible Boolfuck */
02:32:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51447&oldid=51100 * Challenger5 * (+57) /* Partially Silly Ideas */
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02:51:03 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 1d 43m 16s ago: <Jafet> `? ../bin/scheme <-- you do know you can use `cat, right?
02:52:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51448&oldid=51446 * Orby * (+156)
02:52:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo '`'"$topic" | sed 's/^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$top
02:53:40 <HackEgo> 2/7:^`\(`\|$\)//') \ topic2=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic2"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \ then cat "$topic2"; \ else echo "$
02:53:46 <HackEgo> 2/2: -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ elif [ -e "$topic2" ]; \ then cat "$topic2"; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi | rnooooooooodl
02:55:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nanofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51449&oldid=51448 * Orby * (-3)
02:57:10 <Jafet> I assume that noooodl is made of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uncooked_anellini_pasta.jpg
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03:09:37 <shachaf> I only looked at the picture and didn't figure it out.
03:10:45 <shachaf> looks like that wisdom entry doesn't exist
03:19:40 <Jafet> `? what did you expect
03:19:41 <HackEgo> what did you expect? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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04:40:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51450&oldid=12479 * Orby * (+808)
04:41:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51451&oldid=51450 * Orby * (+6)
04:43:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51452&oldid=51451 * Orby * (-2)
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05:40:24 <zzo38> In a infinite chess variant one piece can be a piece that can jump orthogonally any distance that is a prime number, and that kind of piece is called "Huygens".
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06:01:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51453&oldid=51452 * Orby * (+106)
06:05:28 <zzo38> I think muxcomp is very good, and would be a very useful operation to have as a direct operation in the computer!!!
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06:16:47 <hppavilion[1]> Seen in my Google News feed: "The 712-page Google doc that proves Muslims do condemn terrorism"
06:18:27 <hppavilion[1]> ...well, yeah, some do, but others obviously don't. When you have a group 1.57 billion strong, trying to make broad statements about the opinions of that group is an exercise in futility.
06:22:36 <zzo38> I think you are correct. Why do you need 712 pages though?
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07:09:05 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm not certain why they need 712 pages, since I simultaneously debunked NAD reinforced their claim in 2 lines of plain ASCII, and only using a 40-character subset
07:09:49 <hppavilion[1]> (That's a mere ~1506.106 bits assuming optimal encoding in that subset- which English obviously lacks- but who's counting?)
07:15:32 * hppavilion[1] idly whether the use of 17th-century German typesetting makes him behave differently
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07:38:26 <\oren\> remind me to have myself buried with melon bread so I can bribe satan
07:39:39 <zzo38> \oren\: Do you expect that to help?
07:39:49 <zzo38> (r=>[...r+1e6].map(a=>(r+=r.replace(/./g,x=>1-x)))&&r)("0") Now let's see if I (or you) can improve further golfed
07:44:27 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I know Satan and I don't know whether e likes melon bread.
07:44:39 <zzo38> Make 256 terms of Thue-Morse with JavaScript. (if you change 6 to 9 then you can get 2048 terms)
07:46:04 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: she does according to the anime Gabriel Drop-Out
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11:51:21 <HackEgo> otoh//OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
11:52:20 <HackEgo> Your omnipleasant principal witty rant oerjan the exclusive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who dislikes Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he can ever rememe. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
11:52:29 <HackEgo> 10409:2017-03-13 <oerjän> learn OTOH means "On the omnipotent hand".
12:00:15 <boily> oerjan really puns?
12:01:12 <shachaf> once swatten, twice punned
12:02:19 * boily thwacks shachaf. 0.85 FP.
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12:25:18 <HackEgo> kiki`: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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12:35:07 <Phantom_Hoover> You know I think the reason TempleOS gets so much attention and praise is just that most programmers never get exposed to new and unconventional ideas unless there's juicy racist schizophrenic drama attached to them
12:35:55 <Phantom_Hoover> It cropped up on /r/programming again yesterday and there is a highly-upvoted comment in there that basically says "this guy is a genius because he made a language with 64-bit ints"
12:36:44 <Phantom_Hoover> And it's like, I just cannot see how you would think that's remarkable in any way unless your entire scope of programming knowledge came from writing day-to-day C code.
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12:45:31 <Jafet> I think the reason TempleOS gets so much attention and praise is—wait, it does?
12:47:45 <Phantom_Hoover> oh yeah, it shows up high on /r/programming every month or two
12:52:47 <Jafet> is it in the same sense that feather gets “a lot of attention and praise” in this channel
12:56:16 <Phantom_Hoover> no, if you look in the comments it's a very kid-glove affair between "don't talk about his illness or his insane racist comments further down the page" and "wow this is so technically interesting"
12:59:51 <Phantom_Hoover> but technically it's not actually too interesting, it's a lisp machine with everything running in ring 0
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13:04:49 <Jafet> well we also get a new brainfuck derivative every few days
13:05:17 <Jafet> so brainfuck is also getting “much attention” but it's nothing to really take notice about
13:07:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, right but i think it's an interesting observation
13:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> most of these people have probably never even heard of a lisp machine so when they see something that's essentially a really shitty lisp machine it blows their minds
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13:12:44 <b_jonas> oh great, let's continue talking snobly about those code monkeys who only know about pasting Java or C# snippets from StackOverflow but not about the underlying problem of why that code doesn't work and nothing about how computers really work in the low level or all the insanely complicated abstractions we build over it
13:12:56 <b_jonas> it's always satisfying to assert our superiority
13:13:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I didn't say they were dumb, just that it seems like they don't get much exposure to ideas like that.
13:14:17 <b_jonas> ok, now can you help me with my computer problem? I'm trying to read a pendrive but it says it can't mount it and gives some error message. what am I doing wrong?
13:15:53 <Jafet> you could try to access it with MSSQL
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13:16:07 <b_jonas> Jafet: oh, I haven't tried that yet
13:17:06 <b_jonas> what's the syntax of the ATTACH statement for attaching a pendrive?
13:17:39 <b_jonas> wait, I'll start a github project for that with my MSSQL database password embedded in it so I can show the gist I'm trying
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13:19:15 <Jafet> well, you first need to SELECT it and JOIN it to your computer (an OUTER JOIN if you have accessible USB ports, otherwise an INNER one)
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13:24:23 <b_jonas> I thought I had to do ATTACH first, because some example code I saw did that
13:29:40 <b_jonas> I tried OUTER JOIN "/dev/disk/by-id/ata-SANDISK_EXTREMEPRO_KW64_B0E19A5510APW" ON "/mnt" which I got from an online code sample so it must work, but it gave an error
13:29:57 <b_jonas> is the problem that this code is for MySQL and MS SQL wants square brackets instead of double quotes?
13:30:04 <b_jonas> or is my pendrive just not supported by MS SQL?
13:34:03 <Jafet> this normally happens if you have been using a pirated copy of linux
13:39:10 <b_jonas> Hmm, I'll have to ask my sysadmin then, he's the one who handles downloading and installing cracked software on our machines.
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16:04:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: random-cards: not found
16:04:50 <HackEgo> Ponder \ U \ Sorcery \ Look at the top three cards of your library, then put them back in any order. You may shuffle your library. \ Draw a card. \ LRW-C, M10-C, M12-C
16:04:57 <HackEgo> Voracious Cobra \ 2RG \ Creature -- Snake \ 2/2 \ First strike \ Whenever Voracious Cobra deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature. \ IN-U
16:05:11 <HackEgo> Phyrexian Vatmother \ 2BB \ Creature -- Horror \ 4/5 \ Infect (This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.) \ At the beginning of your upkeep, you get a poison counter. \ MBS-R
16:05:24 <HackEgo> Geier Reach Bandit \ 2R \ Creature -- Human Rogue Werewolf \ 3/2 \ Haste \ At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Geier Reach Bandit. \ [Front face. Transforms into Vildin-Pack Alpha.] \ SOI-R
16:05:49 <HackEgo> Kjeldoran Escort \ 2WW \ Creature -- Human Soldier \ 2/3 \ Banding (Any creatures with banding, and up to one without, can attack in a band. Bands are blocked as a group. If any creatures with banding you control are blocking or being blocked by a creature, you divide that creature's combat damage, not its controller, among any of the creatures it'
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16:21:23 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1#m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:21:25 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: m1 :: [[t]]
16:22:10 <oerjan> it is _right_ there hth
16:22:23 <oerjan> > let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1#m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1] in ()
16:22:25 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: m1 :: [[t]]
16:22:57 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1?m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:22:57 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error in pattern: ?m2
16:23:10 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1&m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:23:25 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘Data.Function.&’,
16:24:05 <oerjan> @let pl i=[[1,0],[i,1]]; rt i=[[1,i],[0,1]]; m1*+m2 = [[sum $ zipWith (*) r1 c2 | c2 <- transpose m2]| r1 <- m1]
16:25:16 <oerjan> @let im = [[1,0],[0,1]]
16:26:25 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> (foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im
16:26:27 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘Test.QuickCheck.Safe.SProperty’ with actual ...
16:26:46 <oerjan> can never remember the right syntax...
16:26:59 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> ((foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im)
16:27:15 <oerjan> @check \l -> any(/=(0::Integer))l ==> ((foldl' (*+) im $ zipWith id (cycle [pl,rt]) l) /= im)
16:27:40 <oerjan> hm maybe Orby's claim is true, then
16:28:36 <oerjan> it seemed too good to be
16:29:40 <oerjan> except, that still would imply SL(2,Z) is the free group on two generators...
16:32:06 <oerjan> wikipedia's modular group article doesn't seem to mention this.
16:33:09 <oerjan> and keeps mixing up SL and PSL
16:34:11 <oerjan> maybe that dyadic monoid thing is related
16:35:09 <oerjan> b_jonas: Orby claims brainfuck's +->< generates a group isomorphic to SL(2,Z)
16:35:40 <oerjan> with + = [[1,0],[1,1]] and > = [[1,1],[0,1]] as matrices
16:36:22 <oerjan> (at the wiki talk page for reversible brainfuck)
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16:38:00 <b_jonas> oerjan: is that trying to something like the continued fraction encoding?
16:38:16 <oerjan> maybe? i haven't grasped how it works yet.
16:38:21 <b_jonas> that is, the tape cells give the terms in the continued fraction
16:38:53 <oerjan> sounds plausible, PSL(2,Z) is all about fractions.
16:41:08 <oerjan> + = \z -> z/(1+z), > = \z -> z+1
16:42:01 <oerjan> let me look up stern-brocot
16:43:44 <oerjan> > rt 1 *+ pl 1 *+ rt (-1)
16:47:19 <oerjan> ah yes, that's precisely it
16:47:44 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calkin%E2%80%93Wilf_tree
16:50:17 <oerjan> as long as you ignore inverses, anyway
16:55:00 <oerjan> the article doesn't mention the z + 1 and z/(z+1) formulas.
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17:04:10 <oerjan> oh wait, +>+< isn't equivalent to >+<+
17:05:50 <oerjan> we're not including output hth
17:06:17 <rdococ> then interpret the . as a comment
17:06:35 <oerjan> > rt (-1) *+ pl 1 *+ rt 1 *+ pl 1
17:06:48 <oerjan> > pl 1 *+ rt (-1) *+ pl 1 *+ rt 1
17:07:27 <rdococ> I experimented with a list data type that stored multiple copies of its data, formatted in different ways for optimal computation speed today.
17:09:03 <rdococ> so, say you have a list {"a", "b", "c", "c"}. asking whether "c" is contained in the list is as easy as looking up the set-formatted version {a=1,b=1,c=2}.
17:13:26 <oerjan> this reminds me how someone (ais523?) mentioned that perl sometimes stores both string and number versions of a value - and although this was meant to be seamless, there was some loophole you could distinguish things with
17:16:20 <rdococ> I'm still working on it, though. it's not completely optimal yet.
17:16:47 <oerjan> hm that @check above cannot possibly be entirely right.
17:19:27 <rdococ> It stores a list as an array, a set, a table of positions, and the inverse position table.
17:20:14 <oerjan> hint: it may not be optimal to calculate all of them before being asked
17:21:00 <oerjan> (afaiu perl only stores both if a conversion's happened)
17:21:01 <rdococ> They're calculated when the list is created. At the moment, I'm trying to get rid of a for loop I still have in the .remove method.
17:21:39 <oerjan> rdococ: i recommend laziness for this hth
17:22:16 <rdococ> Well, going against recommendations such as user-friendliness is kinda esoteric.
17:23:08 <rdococ> I say it's optimised but tbh it requires a sort every time something's inserted
17:23:15 <oerjan> i wasn't talking about user-friendliness, but efficiency hth
17:23:29 <rdococ> but I was giving user-friendliness as an example
17:23:51 <rdococ> if I removed .positions and only kept .array and .set it'd probably work...
17:26:08 <rdococ> you could use it for an ordered inventory
17:26:19 <rdococ> (but you'd probably want .positions too for that)
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17:29:01 <rdococ> I also had the esoteric idea of storing associative arrays as functions that check the parameter against each key in the array. Adding items would be the process of reassigning the variable the array is contained in to a function that checks the parameter against the new key, returning the new value if there is a match, and executing the old list otherwise.
17:30:11 <oerjan> that's pretty much just association lists
17:30:11 <\oren\> rdococ: and every so often an optimizer runs over the whole thing and optimizes it
17:30:38 <b_jonas> In M:tG, OGW has reprinted Mighty Leap but without the elephant? what's the point? it was the armored elephant leaping over buildings that made it fun!
17:30:45 <\oren\> instead of garbage collection you have dead code deletion
17:31:48 <rdococ> another plan is first class classes
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17:34:08 <rdococ> and functions as classes
17:35:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51454&oldid=51453 * Oerjan * (+1007) I don't think that all works
17:35:10 <b_jonas> they're printing a green Curiosity?
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17:38:53 <\oren\> I wonder what year the last magic the gathering card will be printed. ~2060?
17:40:57 <fizzie> oerjan: You can do an explicit special variable where the string and number values have gotten disconnected from each other, at least.
17:41:03 <fizzie> `` perl -e 'use Scalar::Util qw(dualvar); $foo = dualvar(4, "five"); printf "%d is %s", $foo, $foo;'
17:43:30 <fizzie> Scalar::Util's "isdual" is a predicate for that sort of thing, but also detects naturally occurring dualvars from a conversion.
17:44:24 <rdococ> this dual thing is weird.
17:44:32 <rdococ> all the more reason esoteric languages should use it!
17:45:07 <\oren\> I pronounce epitome as /ɛpɪtom/
17:45:52 <oerjan> \oren\ doesn't care about all that stress
17:47:19 <\oren\> fizzie: wut. oh god why
17:51:48 <fizzie> The special variable $! behaves a little similarly (yields integer errno when referred to as a number, but the strerror output when a string), but I believe isn't a string-and-number scalar implementation-wise, but instead a tied scalar.
17:52:24 <fizzie> `` perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
17:52:24 <HackEgo> 1 is Operation not permitted
17:52:46 <fizzie> Handy for decoding errno values.
18:00:28 <oerjan> . o O ( why is assigning to $! not permitted? oh wait... )
18:00:56 <b_jonas> fizzie: doesn't help when everyone prints confusingly translated locale-dependent strerr-formatted strings, rather than numbers like 104 or symbolic constant names like ECONNRESET that you could easily look up.
18:02:08 <oerjan> `` LANG=no_nb.UTF-8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:02:09 <HackEgo> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. \ perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: \ LANGUAGE = (unset), \ LC_ALL = (unset), \ LANG = "no_nb.UTF-8" \ are supported and installed on your system. \ perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). \ 1 is Operation not permitted
18:02:35 <rdococ> is Perl still confusing 4 for five?
18:02:36 <oerjan> `` LANG=de.UTF-8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:02:36 <HackEgo> perl: warning: Setting locale failed. \ perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: \ LANGUAGE = (unset), \ LC_ALL = (unset), \ LANG = "de.UTF-8" \ are supported and installed on your system. \ perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). \ 1 is Operation not permitted
18:02:56 <rdococ> well, if four is five then everyone is donald trump
18:04:01 <oerjan> `` LANG=de_DE.utf8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:04:02 <HackEgo> 1 is Die Operation ist nicht erlaubt
18:04:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: wrong locale names. try nb_NO.utf8 or de_DE.utf8
18:04:50 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes. language first, then country after underscore
18:04:51 <oerjan> `` LANG=nb_NO.utf8 perl -e '$! = 1; printf "%d is %s", $!, $!;'
18:04:53 <HackEgo> 1 is Operasjonen er ikke tillatt
18:05:22 <oerjan> neither of which applies to the nb/nn distinction :P
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18:08:25 <rdococ> and 1 is "love. 1 is life."
18:08:46 <rdococ> Actually, I am kinda wrong. dualvar(1, "love") =/= dualvar(1, "life").
18:20:21 <zzo38> How to install a .deb given the filename (or URL) instead of a package name?
18:23:08 <rdococ> dualvar(e*x*e, "deb") and suddenly even a windows user can do it :p
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18:50:16 <rdococ> what about a language with phunctions
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18:56:39 <erkin> phunctional phreaks
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18:59:04 <hppavilion[1]> Quick initialism poll: how would *you expand "SQ3R"? Would it be "SQRRR" or "SQQQR"?
19:00:01 <Taneb> Like h2g2 => *h*itch*h*iker's *g*uide to the *g*alaxy
19:00:26 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: SQQQR because I'm an algebraist who writes the function on the right or as a superscript index, and the argument on the left
19:03:32 <HackEgo> 7437:2016-04-17 <b_jonäs> learn GOD is GOD over djinn
19:03:52 <HackEgo> god//GOD is GOD over djinn.
19:04:10 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1XD5sc5NI0
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19:43:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51455&oldid=51454 * Orby * (+323)
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19:46:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51456&oldid=51455 * Orby * (+67)
19:49:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51457&oldid=51456 * Orby * (+306)
19:53:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51458&oldid=51457 * Orby * (+120)
19:54:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51459&oldid=51458 * Orby * (+12)
19:55:52 <\oren\> moemrization is key to pasword security. the more moe the more secure
19:57:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51460&oldid=51459 * Orby * (+86)
19:58:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Reversible Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51461&oldid=51460 * Orby * (+66)
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20:01:12 <zzo38> Do you know if there is a better way to do this than using 7-Zip? diff <(7z e -so libasound2_1.0.25-1ubuntu10.2_i386.deb | tar xO ./usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf) /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf
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20:59:12 <\oren\> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797734694
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21:18:39 <\oren\> I still want my damn swastikas back for germany, they shouldn't use a flag that never existed
21:19:02 <\oren\> stupid games and their fake flags
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22:20:11 <uczy> ... Consider a two dimensional homoiconic programming environment
22:21:15 <uczy> There are only few languages who relay as much control into the execution environment itself as possible (OISC, BitBitJump, /// etc.).
22:21:54 <uczy> On another note, has anyone written a quine in a 2d-language?
22:22:59 <uczy> I think its hilarious that you can rotate programs
22:23:49 <uczy> "rotation invariant quine"
22:24:39 <int-e> \oren\: you might be interested in the fact that displaying those symbols is illegal in several countries, with narrow exceptions that don't extend to video games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legality_of_Nazi_flags
22:25:38 <shachaf> int-e: are you sure \oren\ can legally click that link hth
22:26:03 <shachaf> Is there a 2D language where programs are preserved under rotations and reflections?
22:27:17 <uczy> shachaf: I have no idea, but would love to find out. I suppose its possible
22:27:41 <shachaf> Seems like it wouldn't be difficult.
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22:30:59 <int-e> shachaf: I'm assuming that that page is fine even under German law because of the context that merely describes the legal situation and is therefore primarily educational, without any propaganda angle.
22:31:07 <shachaf> uczy: Chatzilla's default ircname is terrible.
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22:31:53 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm sure there are some of them, at least for a suitable definition of "rotation". I think noit o' mnain worb if you adjust the diodes appropriately.
22:32:14 <int-e> At the same time, those illustrations are absent from the german Wikipedia's page about §86a StGB.
22:32:38 <int-e> In any case Canada seems to be more relaxed about this so \oren\ should be fine.
22:32:44 <fizzie> As for quines, there's definitely Befunge ones. Some of them don't even cheat with g.
22:32:49 <uczy> The Swastika is invariant under rotation, too
22:33:09 <int-e> uczy: okay, turn it by 13°...
22:33:55 <uczy> int-e: you are right (13°)
22:34:36 * Zarutian never understood why the National Socialist party in Germany was so unimaginative to use the logo of Eimskip tilted 45° degrees
22:35:08 <shachaf> int-e: what do you think of this contention: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7ohmFhWkAAbh6D.jpg
22:37:56 <int-e> hard to say with a sample of 1 out of 4.
22:41:49 <int-e> Not at its current price, won't happen.
22:43:42 <shachaf> At what price would it happen?
22:43:58 <shachaf> Next you'll demand a story.
22:44:25 <int-e> I think it's a puzzle game so maybe it can do without a story.
22:45:41 <int-e> But I don't think I want to pay a double digit price for it. Too many other games to play.
22:47:22 <int-e> My most recent addition is Ori and the Blind Forest.
22:47:30 <shachaf> Ah, I played that recently.
22:47:52 <int-e> (For EUR 10, which may actually be less than it's worth.)
22:48:38 <int-e> It has gorgeous graphics and - probably - a story. I just started.
22:49:33 <shachaf> Is it the "Definitive Edition"?
22:50:42 <fizzie> I've watched someone in the internet play that game through.
22:51:20 <shachaf> Were they doing it as quickly as they could?
22:51:26 <int-e> Obduction is on my to-play list, somewhere, but after Myst V I'm a bit skeptical about the game. So... waiting for a cheap offer :-P
22:51:40 <fizzie> I don't remember if it was a speedrun.
22:53:17 <int-e> shachaf: and that's basically why I find most retail prices too high; there are *a lot* of good computer games, and few that I really crave; for most purposes they are quite fungible, so the cheap ones determine what I'm willing to pay.
22:53:47 <shachaf> But the time that you spend playing them is surely much more valuable than the price.
22:53:51 <int-e> so actually, the prices may be fine, because they're not for me but for those who actually want that particular game.
22:54:09 <int-e> We've had this discussion
22:54:22 <int-e> the time I spend on the game is an extra investment.
22:54:26 <shachaf> Ah, I thought I'd talked about that in here.
22:55:10 <Zarutian> wasnt there an general advice in the end credits of an computer game that said that if you paid more that 20 bucks for a game then you overpaid for it?
22:55:56 <int-e> Monkey island had something like that. Though I forgot the pricise amount.
22:56:05 -!- boily has joined.
22:57:43 <int-e> 'Guybrush commented to Elaine that at least he’d learned something from this whole experience, and when she asked what it was, I was given the chance to choose between three dialogue responses. I chose “Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game”, just to see what would happen. Elaine asked me what I was talking about, and the game’s fitting final sentence was “I don’t know,...
22:57:49 <int-e> ...I’m not sure why I said that.”'
22:59:09 <shachaf> int-e: Did you play _Spider and Web_, though?
22:59:18 <int-e> shachaf: still unfinished :P
22:59:30 * int-e is good at leaving games unfinished.
23:00:12 <shachaf> kmc_: did you play that game
23:00:17 <boily> int-ellonkey island, helloochaf.
23:00:20 <shachaf> http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/
23:01:24 <kmc_> i did play day of the tentacle though
23:01:36 <int-e> kmc_: excellent game
23:02:24 <int-e> The remake is nice, they included an "original mode" with the original graphics, and they do include the Maniac Mansion easter egg.
23:02:38 <kmc_> ah I didnt know there was a remake!
23:02:57 <quintopia> but i havent finished grim fandango yet
23:03:02 <shachaf> Did I get the remake as part of that Humble Bundle thing?
23:03:09 <int-e> It's the same game with better graphics.
23:03:16 <fizzie> We had that guy give a talk at work.
23:03:40 <int-e> (Just to be clear what "remake" means here. They didn't touch the story or puzzles as far as I could see.)
23:03:45 <shachaf> Thimbleweed Park is coming out in a few days.
23:03:55 <fizzie> That's what he was mostly talking about.
23:04:20 <fizzie> I didn't start that kicker, though.
23:04:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:06:32 <shachaf> I didn't remember anything about it but I got an email today so I must've.
23:06:36 <fizzie> He told a nice story about how he wanted to have the Maniac Mansion arcade machines be playable, but they just couldn't fit that in, so now in Thimbleweed Park when there's an arcade, he was decided to finally fix that, given that there's much less technological restrictions.
23:06:40 <fizzie> Then they ran out of time and they're still not playable.
23:06:48 <fizzie> But apparently this time there might be a patch later.
23:07:01 <int-e> I'm hoping for a remake of Sam&Max hit the road :)
23:08:32 <fizzie> Sonic Generations has an in-game copy of Sonic 1, but only on the consoles, not in the PC version.
23:09:24 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you play _Spider and Web_?
23:10:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:10:24 <shachaf> Oh, well, it's good and pretty short.
23:10:35 <shachaf> If you like these text-based games, anyway.
23:10:37 <shachaf> http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/tangle/
23:12:08 <fizzie> I like those that are a little more forgiving than the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy game.
23:12:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:12:47 <shachaf> In that game you have to feed the dog the sandwich in the very beginning, or else you can't win.
23:13:02 <shachaf> Unless you become that other person and feed the dog the sandwich.
23:13:10 <shachaf> But even that's only one more chance.
23:14:28 <shachaf> fizzie: Anyway, if you type "help" the game will explain exactly how forgiving it is.
23:14:55 <int-e> The hitchhiker text adventure?
23:15:15 <int-e> I never got to the point (without a walkthrough) where you'd lose because of not feeding the dog :P
23:15:22 <int-e> That game was hard.
23:15:22 <shachaf> The sandwich thing is in hhgg.z3
23:15:34 <shachaf> The "help" thing is in S&W
23:15:47 <int-e> I meant the sandwich thing.
23:16:19 <int-e> (hhgg = Hitch Hiker to the Galaxy... Game?)
23:16:42 <int-e> (yes, I realized a moment too late)
23:16:52 <shachaf> If I remember correctly, you go into a tiny spaceship where everyone is mad at you for typing something wrong.
23:16:58 <fizzie> "For instance, at the end of the game, Marvin will ask you for a specific tool to repair the ship with. The tool required is randomly selected from a pool of ten—except that if you are missing any one of those ten items, then the game will always choose that one. So, if you left the toothbrush in your bedroom at the beginning of the game, then you'll be forced to start over completely."
23:17:01 <shachaf> And then the dog eats the spaceship.
23:17:17 <shachaf> But if you feed the dog a sandwich, it doesn't, and then the people are all thankful.
23:17:34 <shachaf> My memory may be faulty. Why would it be a spaceship if there's a dog?
23:17:36 <int-e> I do recall that you actually see the dog swallow the space ship.
23:18:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Well, at least the natural instinct of "pick up everything you can" will save you there.
23:18:11 <shachaf> Except your inventory is limited.
23:18:18 <int-e> Whereas if you feed it, there's something like "and ignores a passing microscopic spaceshipp swooping by"
23:18:33 <shachaf> But you can put extra things in the thing that your aunt gave you that you don't know what it is.
23:18:44 -!- Mayoi has joined.
23:18:49 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes⁺?
23:18:52 <int-e> Anyway that's where the footnotes come from, I think.
23:19:09 <HackEgo> 10534:2017-03-27 <shachäf> forget footnote 1 \ 9240:2016-10-12 <boil̈y> ` sed -i \'s/\\./\xe2\x81\xb8./\' wisdom/footnote\\ 1 \ 6418:2015-12-19 <int-̈e> le/rn footnote 1/May contain nuts.
23:19:11 -!- Mayoi has changed nick to erkin.
23:19:24 <shachaf> Maybe I should only have undone 9240
23:19:57 <int-e> shachaf: I think you're right about that 12 too. (In that the 12th footnote in the game is the one that says "Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes")
23:19:59 <HackEgo> patching file 'wisdom/footnote 1'
23:20:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
23:20:38 <shachaf> http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Footnote claims that it was 11.
23:22:03 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: that would be slow?
23:24:16 <hppavilion[1]> (sorry, I just turned my computer on and my IDE is yet to launch, so this channel is my entertainment, which boily s down to unfunny commentary)
23:24:20 <int-e> ¬wiki = lohi, apparently
23:25:06 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Then maybe don't do that?
23:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> (Luckily, my keyboard ſkript was broken, leading to me being unable to type the uppercaſe "E" back there, so I got to fix that. Yaaaay.)
23:25:54 <boily> hppavellon. eh? what's a "s down unfunny"?
23:26:45 <int-e> boily: I think it was a lohi pun.
23:27:11 * boily is throughly confuzzled
23:27:33 <int-e> Then think like hppavilion[1].
23:27:53 <int-e> "lohi" means "slow" in Hawaiian.
23:27:54 * boily gleefully thwacks hppavilion[1]. *thwack thwack thwack* :D
23:28:21 <int-e> So it *is* the opposite of wiki.
23:30:15 * Zarutian thought that lohi meant low to high edge transistion
23:30:46 <hppavilion[1]> Unfortunately, I alſo ſeem to have ſucked up ſome of the other characters, with a recent edit to kb.ahk, ſo I'm conſtantly having to fix newly-diſcovered problems.
23:32:59 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:34:53 <hppavilion[1]> It might juſt be Firefox's doing (which would make me ſad), or it could be that the caſe normalization part of the DNS ſpecial caſes ſ=s=S (which would make me leſs sad, but ſtill diſappointed), but I *really* hope that Google actually subdomained in the URL tranſlate.google.com.
23:36:03 <shachaf> I'm sure you can figure out which one it is if you try.
23:36:09 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm uſing Unifraktur Maguntia 16 as my client font, ſo the ſs are juſt thematic following)
23:36:17 <shachaf> But maybe you can do it without typing ſs into the channel.
23:37:36 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I've been wondering what you do about ſs when using acronyms, initialisms, and choponyms ever since I typed "DNS" earlier.
23:38:05 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], "ſ" is lower case
23:38:10 <hppavilion[1]> boily: An ad-hoc hyponym I just invented for an abbreviation formed by ending the word earlier
23:38:32 <Taneb> And it capitalises to S
23:39:40 <boily> fungot: nostril. you're making more sense than hppavilion[1].
23:39:40 <fungot> boily: no, you'd have to write a parser once if the value is from g and b both being arguments is good, but it
23:39:58 <boily> fungot: is hppavilion[1] context-free?
23:39:58 <fungot> boily: i don't call that a feature intended for optimization would be implemented in a lambda-based language. :) what were you writing that you're running into it that they " provide" or " lee"
23:42:35 * Zarutian hands, without any explantion, an oyster to boily
23:44:41 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3454#appendix-B.2 is (supposed to be) used for IDN, and it maps ſ to s. So you're out of luck.
23:44:56 * boily considers the oyster. om mani padme hum.
23:45:54 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Some acronyms aren't written in allcaps. Especially in Europe.
23:46:28 <int-e> (chain of RFCs: 4343 --> 3491 --> 3454)
23:46:36 <Taneb> I think the thing to remember is that the elongated s is a handwriting convention
23:47:41 <int-e> It used to exist in typesetting too, but in common usage only a ligature survives, ß.
23:48:06 <int-e> (and that's limited to one language)
23:49:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SWEDE CHICKEN).
23:50:24 <shachaf> LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FOREIGN FUNCTION INTERFACE
23:52:01 <\oren\> oh wait no, that's ʃ not ſ