00:02:59 -!- LKoen has joined. 00:34:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:54:00 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 01:12:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:17:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:38:41 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:40:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:43:30 -!- boily has joined. 01:47:57 `w 01:47:59 monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him. 01:48:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 01:54:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:05:40 bhellongtimenoseely 02:06:05 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:56 <__kerbal__> So, I've been wondering something. Who hosts the wiki now? 02:10:17 bonsoœçafaitunboutterjan! 02:11:43 __kerbal__: Gregor hosts it and fizzie maintains it 02:12:18 it's on the same server as HackEgo (which is why we get the wiki announcements) 02:12:22 <__kerbal__> ah, ok. I knew who hosted it a few years ago but never found who hosted it now 02:12:29 <__kerbal__> Interesting 02:12:57 <__kerbal__> What became of Graue and ehird? 02:13:44 they stopped coming here. 02:14:33 <__kerbal__> ah 02:15:56 a dark basement likely ate them. 02:16:02 I guess that "why" is technically true in that being on the same server was the motivation for the announcements, but they would work across hosts with just a configuration change. 02:17:14 i sort of suspected that 02:18:29 (Making them work in a way that wouldn't permit anyone from spamming the channel by spoofing the source address would be slightly more involved.) 02:18:49 * oerjan cannot find out what "boutt*" means 02:20:22 «ça fait un boutte», with the infamous «-tte» québécois spelling. «ça fait un bout» → ”it's been a while”. 02:20:52 while fr:bout can mean en:end, en:extremity, it can also mean en:“a length”. 02:21:07 <__kerbal__> I also heard that there was a forum at one point... I guess that, from what I've read of esolang wiki history, that (A) The forum was redundant and (B) it was clunky to use? 02:21:11 boily: there's some evidence they're still alive. 02:21:24 or were recently, anyway. 02:21:37 __kerbal__: It was also spammy. 02:21:43 <__kerbal__> Ok, I see 02:22:06 oerjan: I don't know who Graue is. 02:22:20 There's still a read-only copy around, isn't there? 02:22:24 boily: person who originally founded the wiki 02:22:25 <__kerbal__> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Graue 02:22:34 the forum wasn't terrible to use, just nobody did, so nobody had an incentive to 02:23:00 IIRC it used the same software 4chan did (or at least, something in the same style), which was an interesting choice 02:23:06 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal has a link to the archive. 02:23:57 <__kerbal__> You got a LOT of DVD spam 02:25:34 <__kerbal__> The history of the esolang community is really neat. I find category:shameful really amusing 02:26:00 heh :D 02:26:09 The mailing list(s) got real use, and were the direct predecessor of this channel. 02:27:29 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:29:09 <__kerbal__> Avast is flagging some kind of threat in one of the mailing list archives 02:29:15 <__kerbal__> (the most recent one) 02:30:26 There may be some spam in there as well, especially for the last years. 02:30:55 <__kerbal__> There's a LOT in the most recent one 02:31:20 2001/2002 are better. 02:32:03 Maybe we should have a 15-year celebration of some sort for #esoteric this coming December. 02:33:04 <__kerbal__> I've read about various abortive esolang design contests... I would participate in one, personally 02:33:13 maybe oerjan could meet Taneb? 02:33:16 <__kerbal__> an idea 02:33:57 boily: what 02:35:41 Maybe oerjan could meet Taneb in Greenland. 02:35:45 `quote greenland 02:35:46 932) The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree 02:36:13 `2 quote greenland 02:36:15 2/2:Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?) 02:39:33 shachaf: I'm in MTV again in August, though just for a week. 02:40:13 tg 02:41:31 @metar BGSF 02:41:32 BGSF 030050Z AUTO 31014KT 9999NDV SCT060/// 04/M04 Q1010 02:41:37 Sounds cold. 02:41:39 @metar KOAK 02:41:40 KOAK 030053Z 29012KT 10SM FEW008 FEW012 19/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP143 T01940128 02:41:41 @metar KSJC 02:41:42 KSJC 030053Z 30010KT 10SM FEW024 23/14 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02330144 02:42:53 @metar CYUL 02:42:53 CYUL 030100Z 25003KT 220V290 15SM FEW040TCU FEW080 20/18 A2983 RMK TCU1AC1 SLP104 DENSITY ALT 800FT 02:50:29 What's the "TCU" in "FEW040TCU FEW080”? (Total Cost of... U-something?) 02:51:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_congestus_cloud apparently? 02:51:47 Oh, it's the kind of cloud. 02:52:31 Towering Cumulus. 02:52:36 FEW040FLUFFY 02:53:18 it's a very humid summer so far. my plants are happy. 02:53:53 My plantdroid dried out while I was in Scotland. :/ 02:54:05 I keep pens in it now. 02:57:55 time for me to slumber post-modernly in an hyper-slow-motion interpretative deconstructivist expression of the inanimate self, transcending linen boundaries and reappropriation of unsuspecting pillows. 02:58:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AIRPORT CHICKEN). 03:02:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:02:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:15:14 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:18:06 . o O ( what's a plantdroid ) 03:31:52 -!- Zarutian has joined. 04:00:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:05:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:15:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian). 04:41:25 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:47:56 https://www.akalin.com/bfpp 05:01:52 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:08:50 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:30:41 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:58:29 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:04:04 @metar lowi 06:04:04 LOWI 030450Z 06004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT015 BKN025 14/13 Q1024 NOSIG 06:29:26 To make up the new kind of forum with Unusenet perhaps. I wrote the document for it, so in order to do so, is only necessary to do what is written on there; it does not require notifying anyone at all about it. 06:30:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:41 -!- augur has joined. 06:30:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:32:31 Did you read this document? Then you can tell me in case of anything wrong with it please. 06:37:34 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52390&oldid=52347 * Qwertyu63 * (-34) 06:37:48 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:38:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:50:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:53:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:53:33 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52391&oldid=52390 * Qwertyu63 * (+72) 06:56:12 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52392&oldid=52391 * Qwertyu63 * (-4) 06:56:45 [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52393&oldid=52392 * Qwertyu63 * (+0) 07:02:01 -!- augur has joined. 07:05:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:16 -!- augur has joined. 07:18:29 is there a name for this? a tree where each node can be either white, black or grey 07:18:31 and where a white node only has white children, and a black node only has black children 07:18:56 apartheid hth 07:20:03 I don't know? 07:20:16 (wait, y'all are too young for this...) 07:23:08 i liked it 07:23:37 the joke, that is 07:23:55 Why is that sort of tree interesting? 07:24:03 yay 07:24:49 . o O ( oerjan's feeling his age! ) 07:25:37 oerjan: I think apartheid known even to youngsters. 07:25:44 shocking 07:26:00 shachaf: i use a bitmap to keep track of allocated areas, and this is faster than a linear scan 07:26:20 oh that kind of tree 07:26:21 because if free == white, you don't have to descend into black nodes to find a free block 07:26:52 this "free == white" thing is not helping your case hth 07:26:59 word. 07:27:01 lol 07:27:07 :D 07:27:23 let's s/white/blue/g, s/black/yellow/g, s/grey/green/g 07:27:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quad_tree_bitmap.svg ... I think they have no particular name and are described by their branching factor instead. (You could to the binary space partitioning as well) 07:28:00 yeah that's the same thing but in 1d instead of 2d 07:28:40 2^k trees are tg 07:28:47 tg? 07:28:49 too good 07:29:02 also, generically, it's a kind of sparse array 07:29:14 i guess 07:29:41 Do you like hashlife? 07:29:59 How would you make these sorts of diagrams? http://slbkbs.org/h/1.svg 07:30:08 izabera: anyway if you find an established name please let us know 07:30:17 shachaf: yeah hashlife is great, especially its practical applications 07:30:30 What are its practical applications? 07:30:45 thatsthejoke.gif 07:31:13 Is the joke that it has no practical applications? 07:31:20 what's up with those imaginary gif images 07:32:07 Imaginary gif is better than actual gif 07:32:17 Larger color palette. 07:32:51 I mean, what does "thatsthejoke.gif" convey that isn't conveyed by "that's the joke"? 07:33:04 There's a picture from the Simpsons that it's supposed to conjure, I think. 07:33:23 I watched the video that the picture comes from. It uses "that's the joke" in a completely different sense. It's not very funny. 07:33:27 Maybe that's the joke? 07:34:23 Oh, so what you're actually saying about this tree is that you only store the internal node rather than the entire subtree. 07:34:33 yep 07:34:54 Why not just call it a tree where the leaves are black or white? 07:35:13 ok 07:35:32 You can call them black white tree. 07:35:32 I'm confused. 07:37:20 what's confusing? 07:44:58 :t confusiing 07:45:00 error: 07:45:00 • Variable not in scope: confusiing 07:45:00 • Perhaps you meant ‘confusing’ (imported from Control.Lens) 07:45:03 ugh 07:45:04 :t confusing 07:45:06 Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b 08:04:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:22:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:25:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:26:50 I have played GURPS game four times already, and not once has my character ever been damaged. My character's shield got hit a few times but also has never gotten damaged. 08:52:48 What about your character's shield's shield? 08:55:36 -!- augur has joined. 09:10:24 shachaf, zzo38 goes through four of them a minute 09:12:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:15:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:26:11 -!- erkin has joined. 09:29:32 @quote stab 09:29:32 byorgey says: @type (^.) s -> Getting a s t a b -> a I would not like to be getting a stab, thank you 09:29:51 `wisdom 09:29:55 emoticon//emoticon: ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:36:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:59:40 -!- augur has joined. 10:06:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:06 -!- sleffy has joined. 10:16:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:28:48 * oerjan realizes he's been backscrolled fo 3 hours without noticing 10:31:50 :t confusing <-- now i'm wondering what the infamous ... i m a s t a b u function was. 10:33:42 @quote i.m.a.s 10:33:42 ddarius says: Someone made a completely non-idiomatic library/redefinings to make the code look more like ruby because, I'm assuming, they suffer from brain damage. 10:33:50 @quote i.m.a.s.t 10:33:50 No quotes match. Sorry. 10:33:54 darn 10:34:11 @quote stab 10:34:12 pjdelport says: [on qwe1234:] It must be a drag, being the sole beacon of sanity in a field where all the established researchers are unanimously insane. 10:34:27 @quote \ sioraiocht says: if you made a type class the same name as a type, I'd stab you in the face 10:35:05 i think you cannot do that, without different modules. 10:35:22 *+r 10:48:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:33:50 -!- boily has joined. 11:56:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:04:11 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:07:22 -!- augur has joined. 12:11:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:23:45 -!- erkin has joined. 12:24:25 -!- trn has joined. 12:27:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WATCH CHICKEN). 12:28:11 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 12:28:23 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:28:44 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas. 12:41:34 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:48:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:59:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:59:46 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: *). 13:08:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:12:09 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 13:18:19 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:51:17 -!- sftp has joined. 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:37:56 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:38:34 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:43:46 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:48:49 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:07:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:12:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:41:42 [wiki] [[Talk:Triple Threat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52394 * Kerbal * (+197) Created page with "You say that there are "There are a total of 11 valid commands in TT." Isn't that number actually 12, as 00 is a command? ~~~~" 16:46:06 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host). 16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 16:47:24 oerjan: There was no such function. 16:47:58 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Client Quit). 17:16:10 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:20:02 -!- nullcone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:18 -!- sftp has joined. 17:25:17 -!- nullcone has joined. 17:28:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:40:31 -!- testuser has joined. 17:41:22 hello. is someone here ? 17:42:01 -!- testuser has left. 17:43:59 welp 17:49:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:57:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:58:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:04:27 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 18:14:41 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:31:42 -!- augur has joined. 18:54:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: restart). 18:55:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:58:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:02:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:08:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:27:34 the hell 19:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:49:18 -!- johndoe021 has joined. 19:59:33 -!- erkin has joined. 20:06:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:16:22 `quote solidity 20:16:23 240) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 20:16:38 http://u.solidity.cc/ 20:17:10 Did you know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidity ? 20:17:22 Please to see it gopher://zzo38computer.org/0textfile/miscellaneous/unusenet tell me any comment you have of it. 20:17:31 treederwright was a true prophet 20:29:55 -!- Mew_ has joined. 20:30:06 Hello. 20:30:24 `welcome Mew_ 20:30:25 Mew_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:38:27 G'evening 20:43:22 Did you read this document? 20:49:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:50:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:56:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:22:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:25:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:30:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:47:36 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 21:53:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:56:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:01:47 How long have you guys been programming? 22:02:14 and how did you get into it? 22:02:29 About 7 or 8 years, from David Morgan Mar's esolangs 22:02:34 (especially Piet) 22:03:39 I started to program in dos when I was 9, though didn't learn c++ until just this year. C# has served me well 22:04:47 batch, that is 22:04:49 I learnt Haskell shortly after finding this channel circa 2011 and I've just got a job using it \o/ 22:05:17 Hope to be able to find a developer job after I finish UNI 22:05:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:05:53 `? rdococ 22:05:54 My advice is have a niche skill and lots of public examples of your programming 22:05:54 rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:06:48 `learn rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:06:51 Relearned 'rdococ': rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words. 22:08:17 `cwlprits rdococ 22:08:24 rdococ, anywhere near the bit of airstrip one I've just moved to? 22:08:25 rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän oerjän oerjän rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän rdocöc rdocöc oerjän 22:08:37 what a surprise imo 22:08:48 Taneb, idk for sure. 22:11:00 `? Taneb 22:11:01 Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions). 22:11:17 Taneb, may I ask you why you moved to Airstrip One? you must be nuts. 22:19:40 rdococ, some of us have the ill fortune to be born here 22:21:26 I've just moved to Cambridge, however 22:22:20 Taneb, ah. I misread what you said. 22:22:31 I was born here too. miracle we can still use the internet. 22:23:06 Quite, indeed 22:23:07 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:23:20 where is airstrip one? 22:23:24 I live in pirateland #1 22:23:39 Mew_, Penzance?? 22:23:48 It's located above the left-most regions of Eurasia. 22:23:53 and by that I mean digital pirateland #1 22:23:54 ais523, Britain a la 1984 22:24:02 Mew_, ...Penzance??? 22:24:10 Sweden boi 22:24:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:24:35 So, not Penzance 22:24:36 You'll have trouble finding someone here who hasnt pirated a movie or game 22:24:48 no, not Penzance 22:24:52 but that's a nice place 22:24:59 I'm trying not to pirate things :P 22:25:20 Same, I actually only pirate to check if its worth buying xd 22:26:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:29:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:29:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:31:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:33:45 [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52395&oldid=52100 * Wheatwizard * (-2) Even shorter sum of inputs 22:35:14 I seem to recall talking about Befunge a significant fraction of one interview, and think I got an offer. 22:35:23 Not sure which company this was though. 22:36:04 make sure it isn't in airstrip one 22:37:06 Logs of this channel suggest it was Nokia, where I think I mostly got the (summer) job for knowing Perl. 22:37:32 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPji43Hqyrg 22:37:34 <\oren\> ^ when u aren't allowed to play anymore minecraft today 22:44:41 Here's a fun UK fact: living here for two and a half years isn't long enough to turn a pay-as-you-go SIM into a monthly (£15/mo) plan SIM, at least with Three. They need three years of UK residential addresses before they can even think about considering such a risk. 22:46:28 o.o 22:47:40 No one is answering my question about "Rice's theorem for computable reals": https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/77487/decidable-properties-of-computable-reals 22:47:45 -!- __kerbal__ has joined. 22:48:08 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:58 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Is there a web viewer for gopher? 22:50:13 <__kerbal__> Do you have to download something to read pages in that protocol? 22:50:30 gopher predates the web and has a similar format 22:50:37 *a similar purpose 22:50:52 Firefox used to have a gopher viewer as well as an http viewer, I'm not sure if it still does 22:51:21 __kerbal__: Yes, although an alternative, if you do not wish to do that, is to just change "gopher://" to "http://" and remove the 0, and then the same file is accessible over HTTP 22:51:21 <__kerbal__> Is there an online viewer? 22:51:27 <__kerbal__> oh, ok 22:51:36 <__kerbal__> thanks 22:53:18 shachaf: ooh, that's a good one. 22:55:21 <__kerbal__> zzo38: why would an airport need newsgroups? 22:55:30 <__kerbal__> Or private telephone numbers? 22:55:39 ais523: I think it was dropped already before they embarked on the big version numbers. 22:55:43 <__kerbal__> (It's a fascinatingly esoteric idea, by the way) 22:56:25 I can easily imagine an airport benefitting from private telephone numbers, most big organizations do 22:56:44 <__kerbal__> Well, yes... THAT's true 22:56:57 <__kerbal__> Why would a private telephone number need a newgroup? 22:57:12 <__kerbal__> newsgroup 22:58:43 -!- boily has joined. 22:58:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:58:52 The telephone numbers are not necessarily going to be private; they could have public access, and that is the point of the un0.tel.* hierarchy, in case it is necessary that that newsgroup has a central server which is accessible by telephone instead of internet. Note that Unusenet does not actually require internet, although internet will probably be the most common case anyways. 22:58:56 OK, clearly I took the less insane reading of the ambiguous sentence by default, and given that this is #esoteric I shouldn't have done 22:59:18 If there is anything unclear, notify me so that I may correct it. 22:59:58 <__kerbal__> oh, so the clients would connect by telephone? 23:00:06 <__kerbal__> that's a neat idea 23:01:24 __kerbal__: Potentially, although they do not have to. There could be an echo on a server accessible over the internet too, although such a name is specifying that that newsgroup has a central server and that the specified way of accessing it is by telephone. 23:02:06 <__kerbal__> So, would un0.icao.* connect by airplane mail, and un0.icbm.* connect by intercontinental ballistic missile? 23:02:24 <__kerbal__> I wouldn't want to host a server using the latter protocol if so 23:02:25 No. In those cases, no central server is specified. 23:02:29 <__kerbal__> ok 23:03:00 <__kerbal__> Seriously, though, is icbm intended to be the location of the server? 23:03:08 <__kerbal__> physically? 23:04:35 <__kerbal__> is it just a location for the point of it? 23:04:46 __kerbal__: the missiles wouldn't need a warhead 23:04:51 you could just put USB sticks on them or something 23:04:59 hezzo38, his523, __kerbello__. 23:05:10 <__kerbal__> helloily 23:05:38 https://gyazo.com/4433433d420bd66d5014589959bf81f9 23:05:40 It is just a location for the point of it when it is defined, although the server may be physically located there, and you may use disks to transfer messages to/from that server if necessary, although none of these things are required; the location when defined is mainly for uniqueness. 23:05:44 <__kerbal__> ais523: Still, you're LAUNCHING ICBM'S AT SOMEONE! 23:06:04 <__kerbal__> I hope there are parachutes involved 23:06:06 it actually strikes me as a fairly secure method of communication 23:06:18 nobody's going to try to recover those things intact if they don't already know they're for sending data 23:06:24 and an interception of the message is pretty obvious 23:06:27 <__kerbal__> I think they actually tried something similar 23:06:42 <__kerbal__> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail 23:06:58 damn, need to figure out how to loop through a, well loop and get the value at the end of the loop and stick it into a variable 23:07:27 <__kerbal__> Would be really cool, just slightly dangerous 23:07:37 ais523: Well, yes you can do that; it is not prohibited by the specification of Unusenet (even though that isn't the intention of the un0.icbm.* hierarchy, the protocol won't stop you from doing this anyways). 23:07:39 <__kerbal__> if the parachute failed 23:08:12 I'm actually imagining aiming at a lake or the like 23:08:19 then you just scoop the missile out of the lake after it lands 23:08:23 Practicalities, dangerous like that, cost, etc, may stop you, but the protocol of Unusenet does not stop you. 23:08:38 <__kerbal__> ais523: That might be safer 23:08:42 or send it under the radar, and noone will know 23:08:47 you need no security then 23:08:51 <__kerbal__> Mew_: That works 23:09:35 But you cannot send a missile to that address anyways, because the address points to the past, not the future. 23:11:04 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Can't you just omit the time part in programming your missile? 23:11:23 just change it relative to earth rotation and shit 23:12:12 __kerbal__: I suppose so. 23:12:37 <__kerbal__> (I really like this idea. I'm heading to NORAD and seeing if they can loan me a test ICBM) 23:12:58 can I come with you? but you have to ring the doorbell. 23:13:03 I am to scared 23:14:16 <__kerbal__> Maybe we can organize a delegation to head over to NORAD and ask for missiles in the name of the esolang community 23:14:29 <__kerbal__> for the good of all of us except the ones who are dead 23:15:02 The name "un0.icbm.*" only indicates that it is the "missile address" hierarchy though, not necessarily that you are using actual missiles. 23:15:13 <__kerbal__> zzo38: killjoy 23:15:42 But like I said, the Unusenet protocol does not prohibit you from using actual missiles, either. 23:15:50 <__kerbal__> hooray! 23:16:34 <__kerbal__> Mew_: So what's your esolang? 23:17:52 Its brainfuck, but instead of the pointer position being saved between writes, it resets. and then you move pointer through a 80 character alphabet with + and -, it also includes a kind of ACC function that exists in asm 23:17:59 but its not really working properly 23:18:06 only the basic stuff 23:18:12 need to figure the looping out 23:18:35 <__kerbal__> What are the pointer commands? 23:18:51 +, - and . 23:19:19 + adds to the position of the pointer and - subtracts, then . writes the current character to a stream 23:19:26 and ; creates a new line 23:19:30 <__kerbal__> How do you move the data pointer if it resets itself? 23:20:05 well, lets say you want to write "ABC" then you would have this "+.++.+++." 23:20:27 <__kerbal__> ah 23:20:43 instead of what brainfuck would have 23:20:46 <__kerbal__> so + and - are increment and decrement commands 23:20:50 yep 23:20:56 does this actually have a tape? or are you just incrementing a single value? 23:21:06 <__kerbal__> ais523: That's exactly what I'm wondering 23:21:17 yes, it does 23:21:25 and adding or subtracting scrolls the tape 23:21:45 <__kerbal__> so, what would the tape look like after the ABC code? 23:22:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:23:37 Well, ok so it doesnt really have a tape, but for that specific character it does. so after you have written (lets say e) which is "+++++." then it would reset, so if you want an F now you would have to do "++++++." 23:24:08 I am not really sure what you mean by tape, new here. But I read the esolang article 23:24:20 <__kerbal__> Are you familiar with the C array? 23:24:39 I'm very new to C/C++ 23:24:45 so, vaguele 23:24:48 so, vaguely* 23:25:02 <__kerbal__> The C# array is very similar 23:25:09 <__kerbal__> I see you use C#? 23:25:11 Ye 23:25:13 yep 23:25:31 <__kerbal__> Ok, so basically a tape is like an array that stores integers. 23:25:59 <__kerbal__> Tapes can be arbitrary length in some langs, though\ 23:26:02 <__kerbal__> though 23:26:58 It doesn't store the last character that you wrote if that is what you mean. I want to implement that by the loop, so if you want something that you previously wrote, you need to access the saved variable in acc. 23:27:34 and to add store a value in acc I want to add the loop [ code ] so that the value at ] would be stored 23:27:40 <__kerbal__> I believe the acc you are talking about may be a stack or a queue (maybe even a deque) 23:27:52 yeah 23:28:52 <__kerbal__> stacks and queues are like tapes, but you access them from the ends instead of from within 23:29:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:30:02 ah, I see 23:31:35 <__kerbal__> You might be able to use c# arrays to simulate a tape 23:31:51 <__kerbal__> or stack 23:31:59 <__kerbal__> for a stack, a list would be better 23:31:59 That is interesting, because I didnt think of that when I started this evening 23:32:12 but now I think that is the way I should take 23:33:45 <__kerbal__> By the way, if you are having trouble with the C# implementation, Python might be easier 23:34:03 ACC is a registry that stores a value in op codes, and so when you call SUB or ADD it will subtract or add to the ACC registry, that was the way I was planning to go 23:34:40 Ah, see now. I learned Python after I had just learned batch as a kid, but C# kind of took over and suppressed it 23:34:57 but I remember batch clear as day 23:36:25 <__kerbal__> So, without a tape, would your language have an ACC and another accumulator that you have been using already? 23:39:01 <__kerbal__> (The one that +, -, and . have been operating on) 23:39:03 Yep, so it could do subtraction, addition, multiplication and division 23:39:49 <__kerbal__> Interesting; see the bottom of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stack 23:40:03 <__kerbal__> wait, never mind 23:40:06 <__kerbal__> That's about stacks 23:40:12 <__kerbal__> You need accumulators 23:40:39 <__kerbal__> I think you need a tape or a stack or something like that for a TC language 23:40:43 <__kerbal__> unbounded memory 23:40:59 <__kerbal__> with only 2 accumulators, you'd only have two variables 23:41:07 <__kerbal__> crudely speaking 23:41:07 yep, thats the plan 23:41:15 extremely hard to write code for 23:41:20 like brainfuck 23:41:24 but more brainfucky 23:42:35 <__kerbal__> BF has unbounded memory, and is TC. That means that it can execute almost any algorithm you throw at it, even if it is hard 23:42:57 <__kerbal__> I highly recommend that you implement a tape to take advantage of Turing-Completeness 23:43:11 I like how BF is turing complete but C isnt 23:43:50 Ill see what I can do. It'd be pretty cool to be able to say that I have made a turing complete language 23:44:35 <__kerbal__> About C: Some people say that it isn't TC, but in practice it is basically as TC as any other language 23:44:45 <__kerbal__> in a real-world sense 23:44:49 not quite 23:45:15 <__kerbal__> man, my explanation was nearly flawless. What'd I get wrong? 23:45:21 there's a critical distinction, in that a standards-compliant C implementation must have finite memory 23:45:27 even if you have infinite physical memory available 23:45:40 whereas BF has a theoretically infinite tape 23:46:28 "A programming language that is Turing complete is theoretically capable of expressing all tasks accomplishable by computers; nearly all programming languages are Turing complete if the limitations of finite memory are ignored." According to wikipedia 23:46:32 <__kerbal__> is it because of the size_t thing? 23:46:53 <__kerbal__> Mew_: No, what he's saying is that the language itself puts a limit on memory 23:46:57 __kerbal__: and finite pointer size 23:47:00 *she 23:47:19 <__kerbal__> No, I'm a he 23:47:27 but I'm not and you were talking about me 23:47:34 <__kerbal__> oh, very sorry 23:47:46 np 23:48:04 the standard requires there to be finitely many pointer values, and every object needs a distinct address 23:48:53 Insert the standard #esoteric discussion about how an implementation may allow infinite files to get around that problem. 23:49:20 <__kerbal__> fizzie: Can you do that? 23:49:43 <__kerbal__> or will we be inserting the discussion by asking that question? 23:49:43 it's a hotly contested subject 23:49:47 yes 23:49:50 <__kerbal__> ah 23:51:01 It does require files where you can seek around with a relative offset, but not (necessarily) get/set an absolute one. 23:51:21 but fseek() has to return the current offset 23:52:04 err, ftell() 23:52:51 Arguably it doesn't need to work for all files. 23:53:04 Well, good night. I have to magically fall asleep and wake up in the next 5 hours. Work 23:53:06 Ctya 23:53:09 Cya 23:53:21 <__kerbal__> bye 23:53:40 Also thanks __kerbal__ :) 23:53:50 <__kerbal__> de nada 23:53:56 -!- Mew_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:54:16 <__kerbal__> hope he finishes his language. 23:54:20 <__kerbal__> Or she 23:54:37 <__kerbal__> I keep doing that :( 23:55:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:21 that's what singular they is for 23:55:30 <__kerbal__> I hate singular they, personally 23:55:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:55:44 <__kerbal__> from now on, I should just use the nicks, I guess 23:55:44 fair, to each their own 23:55:47 (well err) 23:55:55 (I just realised the irony of using singular they in that line) 23:56:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:56:30 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:56:43 it's safe to assume people are themselves, up to isomorphism. 23:56:54 <__kerbal__> It looked like Mew_ created a new character set 23:57:11 <__kerbal__> for whatever that language was named 23:57:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TREFOIL CHICKEN). 23:57:34 <__kerbal__> Rerail, it was called 23:58:16 <__kerbal__> space was right before A