←2017-07-03 2017-07-04 2017-07-05→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:04:56 <alercah> hmm I want to make a language where the only available integer constants are weird
00:05:05 <alercah> but you need to not be able to know they are coprime or it's easy
00:06:31 <fizzie> In case someone else had missed it too (and there's precedent discussing it on-channel), SGDQ 2017 is happening.
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00:09:18 <__kerbal__> alercah: by weird do you mean non-coprime?
00:09:25 <alercah> __kerbal__: no like
00:09:47 <alercah> available constants include: the number of bytes in the source file, the current day of the month, numberwang
00:10:00 <FireFly> Ah
00:10:13 <__kerbal__> neat
00:10:32 <__kerbal__> this could have interesting ramifications for quines
00:10:49 <alercah> numberwang is a constant for any run of the program but changes each run
00:11:16 <fizzie> Presumably you need to restrict what can be done with those constants, otherwise (X/X)+(X/X)+(X/X)+... is an unary way to represent any number, for a constant X.
00:11:32 <alercah> yeah
00:11:50 <__kerbal__> so, for truly portable code you'd have to work around integer constants entirely or exploit a loophole
00:12:13 <__kerbal__> unless you use something like the number of bytes in the source
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00:12:49 <__kerbal__> Still, how do you prevent someone from rebuilding the set of integer numbers from a single number and arithmetic?
00:13:05 <alercah> you make it hard to find 1
00:14:00 <__kerbal__> so arithmetic will be restricted if it generates 1?
00:15:14 <__kerbal__> This is neat territory
00:15:20 <alercah> well no, if you get 1, you win
00:15:35 <alercah> although it might be helpful to include intercal-style arithmetic
00:15:41 <alercah> where you don't get your usual operations
00:15:51 <__kerbal__> to prevent fizzie's scenario?
00:16:02 <alercah> well that and just to make it more entertaining
00:16:08 <__kerbal__> true :)
00:17:37 <__kerbal__> what about a rotation operator? It would rotate the line to the complex number x y degrees
00:17:45 <__kerbal__> (if you want complex numbers)
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00:21:29 <alercah> yeah that's an option
00:21:47 <alercah> putting max or min in (but not both, that's too easy) would be good
00:21:52 <alercah> maybe round to nearest multiple of 7
00:21:53 <__kerbal__> if you don't, what about an operator a such that, for 2 integer numbers x and y, as y or x approaches infinity or negative infinity, x a y is 2 or negative 2 or something like that? Something that evokes the 1/x curve
00:21:59 <zzo38> I am trying to install a package that uses a dependency which is not available on the distribution I am using; it is libstdc++6 (>= 4.8) which I do not have. How to fix it?
00:22:14 <__kerbal__> max and min would be helpful
00:22:48 <__kerbal__> by negative 2, I mean 0: Some integer thing that approaches 1 for infinite operands
00:23:20 <__kerbal__> asymptotically approaches 1, I guess I am trying to say
00:23:23 <alercah> that really requires floating poing to be productive
00:23:32 <alercah> ooh, should maybe use a non-IEEE floating point for all numbers too
00:23:36 <__kerbal__> you could round, I guess, but that would make little sense
00:23:40 <__kerbal__> with integers
00:23:59 <__kerbal__> Yeah, that's best with floats
00:25:23 <alercah> have the exponent be powers of 3
00:25:35 <alercah> and don't bother normalizing the mantissa
00:26:05 <__kerbal__> you could even do base 3 arithmetic
00:26:20 <alercah> that's not really meaningful
00:26:25 <__kerbal__> true
00:27:04 <alercah> actually I think the floating point math would get weirder with bigger exponent base?
00:27:07 <alercah> like if I did base 101
00:27:15 <__kerbal__> that'd be cool
00:27:46 <__kerbal__> and confusing, but that's the idea
00:27:49 <zzo38> "Important: libstdc++6 is an important system library that many different packages depend on. Upgrading this package to a newer release might be dangerous and might lead to system stability issues." Is it possible to tell only one program to use the new version?
00:28:19 <alercah> no
00:28:29 <alercah> you can only have one library with a given SONAME
00:28:41 <alercah> well
00:28:45 <alercah> within your package manager you can't
00:29:05 <alercah> you could if you downloaded the program separately and wrapped it with a script to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH
00:29:32 <shachaf> zzo38: imo statically link everything hth
00:31:49 <zzo38> And, how to do that?
00:32:36 <shachaf> Apparently it's not easy to statically link libstdc++
00:36:44 <alercah> lol nope
00:37:17 <shachaf> computers are scow
00:38:01 <__kerbal__> Someone should make an esolang where the only storage is really a tape but is interfaced as and called an accumulator vector, just to make people think
00:38:40 <__kerbal__> Multiple accumulator vectors in a language would have some neat mathematical properties
00:38:52 <__kerbal__> because they'd basically be tapes that'd interact
00:39:21 <__kerbal__> through arithmetic operations and the like
00:39:30 <__kerbal__> or would that simply be a language called R?
00:41:11 <__kerbal__> actually, a language where you would treat stacks and tapes and everything else as single, interactable structures with arithmetic capabilities would be really cool.
00:41:41 <__kerbal__> and now I'm ranting
00:44:33 <zzo38> Is it possible for a ELF program to specify a different filename or different directory or whatever and to modify the ELF program to do that without causing a problem? I can add a wrapper script if necessary but I don't even know how would be adding the separate library and how to program to make it to do that?
00:50:02 <zzo38> How do I download version 4.8 of libstdc++6 anyways?
00:52:00 <zzo38> Also, what do I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to? What is the man page for LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
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00:55:09 <zzo38> Nevermind I found the information about LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
00:55:32 <zzo38> However, that does not tell me how to download libstdc++6
01:06:08 <__kerbal__> are you on linux? if so, wouldn't apt-get install work?
01:07:24 <zzo38> But that version of that package is not available.
01:08:25 <zzo38> I tried to use "dpkg --dry-run" with the .deb for Node.js version 8, but it says error it needs the action option.
01:10:13 <__kerbal__> So, the package is a newer release?
01:10:26 <zzo38> Yes
01:11:12 <zzo38> I want to download the file for libstdc++6 version 4.8 and then tell this program to use the newer one even though the other program does not.
01:11:41 <zzo38> I could write a shell script that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH but first the file need to installed.
01:12:21 <__kerbal__> Would this help at all? I bet you've already tried this https://packages.debian.org/jessie/libstdc++6
01:14:22 <zzo38> I don't know if it might conflict with other programs that use the existing libstdc++6, such as Ubuntu system files
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01:23:50 <__kerbal__> fungot: what is your name?
01:23:50 <fungot> __kerbal__: they say that real hackers always are controlled. there, among other things, the stone struck the spider lay dead beside him, and even birds, got out, long snout upraised like a blank scroll is the ultimate shape changer.
01:24:22 <__kerbal__> Ironically, I suspect that fungot was never trained on the word fungot, so he can't say it
01:24:22 <fungot> __kerbal__: they say that most monsters prefer minced meat. that's why they are capable of attacking twice with weapons and with a +5 shovel.
01:25:33 <__kerbal__> implicitly avoiding bot loops
01:25:44 <__kerbal__> with 1 bot, himself
01:25:58 <__kerbal__> fungot IS a he, right?
01:25:58 <fungot> __kerbal__: they say that venus sprang from the oligocene of asia, which fought on its lowest level.
01:30:50 <Warrigal_> fungot: appropriate
01:30:50 <fungot> Warrigal_: blind io had got his name because, where his eye. but the sword. ( the light but warm silken stuff that the priesthood are specially favored by the puritans and in the sky who plagued the allied pilots in their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms of silver; in their fate, full share had the dead.
01:30:57 <Warrigal_> fungot: appropriate
01:30:57 <fungot> Warrigal_: they say that some eggs could hatch in your .newsrc!"
01:31:10 <Warrigal_> fungot: around
01:31:10 <fungot> Warrigal_: sake: japanese rice wine. human(oid) of the english language)
01:31:14 <Warrigal_> fungot: around
01:31:14 <fungot> Warrigal_: the wizard of yendor and stay away from onslaught. he is believed to have assumed mortal form and inhabited the dungeon residents who, naturally, often carrying diseases. " after dinner, you see invisible things.
01:31:29 <Warrigal_> Trying to figure out if fungot tries to use a word that's in the prompt message.
01:32:22 <__kerbal__> fungot: a
01:32:22 <fungot> __kerbal__: disenchanter: ask not, as shown by all accounts.' ( the tough guide to the lion kills and eats, and he looked at rikki-tikki with the atlatl, which means old god, goddess: goddesses and gods, godlets rather, in the following year condemned to be leading the souls who pass to afterlife, but never to touch naked persons: they don't harm them.
01:32:33 <__kerbal__> fungot: the
01:32:33 <fungot> __kerbal__: old hackers never sleep near invisible ring wraiths. yeats). they were not trolls but giant orcs; but the goblins called it simply biter. they called them gremlins, he enjoys visiting the earth elemental, the shokaku bo were small plates, sometimes triangular but more commonly rectangular in shape. because the front projected so far as the ears, and can spread a quickly fatal illness to his feet.
01:32:44 <__kerbal__> the answer is yes, technically
01:32:50 <__kerbal__> for at least some words
01:33:00 <Warrigal_> Anyway, I feel an esolang coming on.
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03:28:25 <zzo38> X is much better than Wayland I think. However, a lot of stupid junk has been added into X, too.
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04:01:20 <\oren\> maybe linkin park is just music for people who are failures at life
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06:10:35 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like NeWS?
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07:33:08 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: There was no such function. <-- well it was not _implemented_... or are you saying edwardk is a _liar_?
07:35:43 <oerjan> or even worse, people are faking edwardk quotes
07:37:02 <shachaf> edwardk is sometimes an exaggarator
07:37:14 <oerjan> *GASP*
07:39:37 <shachaf> `5 w
07:39:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:misle//misle v. tr. "I was misled about morphology." \ ursala//~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=&ll;+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, \ tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its spee
07:39:47 <shachaf> `n
07:39:48 <HackEgo> 2/2:d. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up. \ frozen water//Frozen water is just ice. \ man//Man is destined for Greatness, despite being a minor island.
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10:39:04 <wob_jonas> "<Warrigal_> Aw man. I just thought of a sweet mathematical property that isn't actually true." => wait, I'll tell another one that would be nice if it were true
10:40:30 <wob_jonas> Let F and G be integers, a_0=0, a_1=1, and for every natural number k, a_{k+1}=Fa_{k-1}+Ga_k. It would be nice if for every natural numbers k and l, gcd(a_k,a_l)=a_{gcd(k,l)}
10:40:49 <wob_jonas> This actually works for F=G=1 and many other choices, but it fails for some others.
10:40:57 <wob_jonas> Even if you put magnitude bars in.
10:42:41 <wob_jonas> "<fizzie> Maybe we should have a 15-year celebration of some sort for #esoteric this coming December." => wow, now I feel like a newbie here
10:44:38 <wob_jonas> "<shachaf> oerjan: I think apartheid known even to youngsters." => this, yes. you can't avoid shameful 20th century history if you live in present day Europe, with all the memorials around
10:47:54 <wob_jonas> fungot, when you fry then cook beef slices, how do you prepare the meat?
10:47:55 <fungot> wob_jonas: ashikaga takauji was a pretty fair shot with a bag.... but none have found him and his sword-blade was stained black. somehow the killing of the moon and wisdom, thoth is the same colour as the originator and guardian deity of horse races. his most distinctive features are the devil's work.
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10:55:16 <wob_jonas> "<__kerbal__> oh, so the clients would connect by telephone? <__kerbal__> that's a neat idea" => ok, great, now I no longer feel like a newbie
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10:57:40 <wob_jonas> ais523: I'm not sure the intercontinental rockets for secure comms are a good idea. countries sometimes get very annoyed when unidentified rockets are shot through their airspace. if you communicate a lot that way, you might accidentally start a war.
11:02:33 <wob_jonas> "<alercah> available constants include: the number of bytes in the source file" => there's something like that used in that dc signature program that breaks if you try to debug it by adding printfs, because it takes the length of certain macros and accesses them as integer constants
11:04:29 <wob_jonas> "<zzo38> How do I download version 4.8 of libstdc++6 anyways?" => install a new enough gcc from source
11:04:41 <wob_jonas> "<zzo38> Also, what do I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to? What is the man page for LD_LIBRARY_PATH?" => the manpage is ld.so
11:04:58 <zzo38> That last question I did figure out myself already at least
11:05:02 <zzo38> (about LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
11:05:36 <wob_jonas> "<fungot> Warrigal_: blind io had got his name because, where his eye. but the sword. ( the light but warm silken stuff that the priesthood are specially favored by the puritans and in the sky who plagued the allied pilots in their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms
11:05:36 <fungot> wob_jonas: multi-player nethack is your turn", as near as might be a doppelganger sent to inflict pain or cause injury. suddenly, a realist in action and a wonderfully beautiful bull.... but all the gods to listen easily.
11:05:36 <wob_jonas> of silver; in their fate, full share had the dead."
11:05:39 <wob_jonas> nice
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11:46:15 <fizzie> "his most distinctive features are the devil's work."
11:46:19 <fizzie> fungot: Never stop being you.
11:46:19 <fungot> fizzie: dingo: a rock mole is a device that can reach the nether world, so what use is engraving in a long, jointed tail tapering to a shoe; a few things to say why. his expression quickly changed, and also a device used to describe the occasional village through which they passed, meant fever- ridden and tumbledown. twoflower was a flutter of wings at the price tags before buying anything.
11:46:53 <fizzie> TIL: a rock mole is a device that can reach the nether world.
11:53:33 <boily> fungot: feeling abyssal?
11:53:33 <fungot> boily: money to invest? take it to imitate at this catastrophe, or consecration. thor used it to hatch. when carried, it was a time when rincewind had quite liked the iconoscope. he does not have heard of on the widdershin side of the slain, the goddess deprived her of her charms and changed to a very light snack.
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11:59:58 <\oren\> linkin park make nice music but I can't relate to their lyrics at all
12:03:31 <wob_jonas> fungot, how do you treat insect bites?
12:03:31 <fungot> wob_jonas: does your boss know what you're doing right now. while he was the world he shall surely be put to death by some quantum event. if you can't bribe soldier ants.
12:03:54 <wob_jonas> hehe
12:05:09 <\oren\> I usually use calamine since I wouldn't know what to bribe the ants with
12:06:28 <wob_jonas> you bribe them with gold pieces. gold is universally respected as a currency, see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html
12:12:37 <wob_jonas> `quote
12:12:37 <HackEgo> 926) <fungot> Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused?
12:12:37 <fungot> HackEgo: one has to leave shops before closing time.
12:12:38 <wob_jonas> `wisdom
12:12:40 <HackEgo> for further details for futher details.//See `? for further details for futher details.
12:13:09 <wob_jonas> `? further details
12:13:10 <HackEgo> further details? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:13:11 <wob_jonas> `? for further details
12:13:12 <HackEgo> who knows
12:13:12 <ais523> at least in NetHack, bribing people with gold only works on a subset of humans
12:13:56 <wob_jonas> (plus a subset of demons, but only for people who don't play in easy mode)
12:14:07 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCiFO7qV54E
12:14:09 <ais523> I once bribed one of the Castle soldiers to block a corridor for me to stop the rest interfering with me while I looted it
12:14:13 <ais523> wob_jonas: oh right
12:14:23 <ais523> I forgot about those as it's a completely different mechanic internally
12:17:00 <wob_jonas> (and leprechauns, sort of, but they return later)
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12:29:23 <wob_jonas> `scheme
12:29:24 <HackEgo> The Fate of the Flammable
12:29:24 <wob_jonas> `star-wars
12:29:25 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: star-wars: not found
12:29:26 <wob_jonas> `recipe
12:29:27 <HackEgo> pan, combine the milk, tomato, cinnamon, and eggs; mix well, and sides of \ fork and process until mixture is smooth. Top with a pasta, \ and roll up. (The seed sandwich in an individual long and cut \ in time of the tips.) In a bowl, mix the lemon juice, and \ onion, and cook. Stir in the cream and salt; pour into soup \ and flour mixture int
12:29:33 <wob_jonas> `starwars
12:29:35 <HackEgo> Obi-Wan Kenobi
12:29:56 <wob_jonas> `5 starwars
12:29:58 <HackEgo> 1/1:Supreme Leader Snoke \ Finn \ Gial Ackbar \ Supreme Leader Snoke \ Sio Bibble
12:30:11 <wob_jonas> `5 scheme
12:30:14 <HackEgo> 1/1:Your Puny Minds Cannot Fathom \ The Pieces Are Coming Together \ Realms Befitting My Majesty \ Every Hope Shall Vanish \ May Civilization Collapse
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14:19:22 * __kerbal__ narrows his eyes
14:19:45 <__kerbal__> wait... connecting to a server via telephone is basically just dialup, isn't it
14:19:46 <__kerbal__> ?
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14:28:27 <alercah> yes
14:29:21 <__kerbal__> You learn (or remember, or whatever), something new every day!
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15:15:45 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack oreo
15:15:50 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack cookie
15:15:53 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack mint
15:15:59 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack waffle
15:16:03 <__kerbal__> ;botsnack other food
15:16:26 <__kerbal__> ;hi
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15:18:24 <__kerbal__> Well, what do you think?
15:18:54 <__kerbal__> It's fungot's short-tempered cousin
15:18:54 <fungot> __kerbal__: ishtar: ishtar ( the prisoner, by j.r.r. tolkien) of scaly lizards, especially the _chameleo vulgaris_ species, with broad girdles that held it glowed with a +5 shovel. ( after the blade itself gleamed like a lizard corpse is guaranteed to be clean enough. ( the lands beyond the world with human beings who not unnaturally showed intense gratitude for the feast of st. brigit. there is a translation of the twilight th
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16:59:27 <Mew_> G'day
17:11:43 <__kerbal__> Hi
17:12:19 <FireFly> G'evening
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17:35:15 <zzo38> Good day
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18:44:18 <__kerbal__> One of my many ideas: You know how many esolangs (the esolangs wiki counts 237 languages that use a tape in some way. although probably not all of them exclusively use one tape for memory), no matter their syntatical differences, use a tape as their memory?
18:45:04 <__kerbal__> What about a framework where you could code in multiple tape-based esolangs within the same document, switching at will? You could start in BF and switch to Integ partway through
18:45:19 <__kerbal__> It'd be confusing but really cool
18:53:56 <Mew_> Cool idea
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20:12:57 <__kerbal__> You'd basically have a large program in, say, Tapelang, that executes commands by running subprograms in other languages. These subprograms might return a value to TapeLang, allowing TapeLang to have its own logical structures; ideally, however, the programs would interact with one another by modifying the shared tape. A Tellurium program might read a string to the tape, say, and then an Integ program would import a chatbot modu
20:13:45 <__kerbal__> rgb values of the geometric figure that it represents (like a square) and then a Graphical BF program would write the program to the screen.
20:15:03 <__kerbal__> TapeLang would be the glue that allows these languages to coexist in one program
20:15:53 <__kerbal__> (of course, Integ's not a great language for working with strings, but you get my point)
20:16:47 <__kerbal__> In the example I gave, you'd input the name of a shape (like "square") and the program would draw a square, using the combined capabilities of the languages used
20:18:51 <__kerbal__> It'd sort of resemble the .NET framework
20:19:05 <__kerbal__> except the programs are all interpreted
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23:28:13 <quintopia> helloily
23:28:23 <quintopia> you should have come to sgdq
23:29:09 <alercah> quintopia: are you there? do you run?
23:29:15 <quintopia> there are at least four people shuffling tiles at any time for at least 8 hours every day
23:29:30 <quintopia> yeah im here no i dont run
23:29:32 <alercah> I know the guy responsible for that
23:29:35 <alercah> sadly it's in the US
23:29:55 <quintopia> who is respons8ble
23:30:24 <alercah> George Lu iirc
23:30:30 <alercah> no wait
23:30:32 <alercah> Liu-Krason
23:30:52 <boily> quinthellopia! hellorcah!
23:32:49 <quintopia> what you doing this weekend boily?
23:33:14 <alercah> not playing mahjong in london with me
23:34:00 <quintopia> of course not. hes always busy
23:38:16 <boily> Québec City this weekend, for my dad's birthday ^^
23:38:52 <boily> I shuffled last Sunday. nothing like the good old haneman. 6100 each. mwah ah ah.
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23:48:14 <alercah> boily: nice
23:48:19 <alercah> boily: came close to a couple baimen
23:49:32 <boily> sweet!
23:49:48 <boily> (uhm... I doubt baimen is the correct plural, but it's cromulent...)
23:54:33 <\oren\> screw it I guess I'm gonna bingewatch spongebob now
23:54:39 <\oren\> I'm ready I'm ready I'm ready I'm ready
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