< 1499646028 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499646431 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499646874 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499646928 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499646955 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1499647032 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499647067 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/s2Ga8rRY < 1499647454 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499647523 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499648489 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1499651221 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499651617 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1499653398 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in the process of making the interface to Swiss Ephemeris for use with JavaScript, by use of N-API. < 1499653755 0 :iovoid!~iovoid@unaffiliated/iovoid JOIN :#esoteric < 1499653876 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499654165 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1499654215 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some thing it does not do because Swiss Ephemeris does not have, such as house positions (and sidereal time) relative to planets (and also moon and sun) other than the Earth, calculation of moons of other planets, rotation of other planets, etc < 1499654598 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I add these other thing that is missing? < 1499654787 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499655520 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:346c:f25b:d31d:a0f0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499656704 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:9510:cd8d:bf7:7b0e JOIN :#esoteric < 1499656826 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1499658268 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499658281 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1499658333 0 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1499659063 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:9510:cd8d:bf7:7b0e QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1499660014 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/35_pt/look_around_you.jpg < 1499660023 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look Aroud You's periodic table < 1499660027 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too good. < 1499660036 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tg < 1499660039 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-gudium < 1499661506 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499661988 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1499662173 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:898:5233:6606:b873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :segnomin (thomason's oil) < 1499662182 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:898:5233:6606:b873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha fAu < 1499662209 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:898:5233:6606:b873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ty - thankium < 1499662610 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pastebin.com/nneEPW2g < 1499662675 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should annotate your KSP links. < 1499662892 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499662940 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499663221 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: annote how? < 1499663263 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indicate that people who don't care about KSP don't need to click on them. < 1499663383 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just indicating that it is KSP should be good enough, I suppose < 1499663401 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1499663452 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I mean. < 1499663466 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499663697 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1499664294 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:7d3c:26f0:360b:b5e2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499665831 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangjie_input_method#Early_Cangjie_system for a long time < 1499665846 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found a demo and library for DOS < 1499665867 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://p.mearie.org/gOHG.png it works surprisingly well, given its size (approx <500KB combined) < 1499666241 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1499666460 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499666663 0 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499666688 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1499666879 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know some thing about astronomy, how can you figure the signed phase angle? There is a picture here https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Phase_Angle_3.jpg but I will want the answer to be negative if the Earth is on the other side of the line (the angle will be the same though) < 1499667405 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, that picture is JPEG even though it can work better as PNG, if converted to pure black and white, and that stb_image is unable to load that JPEG file.) < 1499667590 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1499668105 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499668243 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499669300 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499669401 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:7d3c:26f0:360b:b5e2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499669437 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1499670040 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1499670121 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1499670413 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499670921 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1499671210 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured it out (maybe) < 1499671729 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499671822 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499672929 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499673237 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499673386 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1499673415 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1499674131 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1499674190 0 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499675416 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: The other thing then is the Cangjie encoding. For Chinese texts it seem like might be good to have < 1499675445 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was aware of it, but I didn't know about specifics (e.g. the exact encoding form, rendering strategy etc) < 1499675554 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499675993 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if my analysis is correct, the bulk of data is actually the ideographic decomposition map (down to individual strokes or semi-strokes); the resulting instructions are rendered by the "font routine" which is a vector-drawing machine with some size-constrained hinting mechanism (I presume) < 1499676090 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@ec2-52-79-98-81.ap-northeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm unsure is whether the decomposition map itself can be directly visualized or not < 1499678875 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1499680471 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499680721 0 :augur!~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1499681134 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom IO < 1499681134 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: no, you're thinking imperatively. when thinking functionally, you just worry one element, and let recursion worry the rest < 1499681140 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom IO.a < 1499681140 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: And so, I use formal logic all the time, and can still be very practical and speedy. This is contrary to most people's conventional wisdom. This is because they have only seen very < 1499681140 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive formal logics, like if you have only seen assembly code, you think programming is undoable. < 1499681145 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom IO\sa < 1499681145 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. < 1499681148 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom IO.a < 1499681149 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: Obession with operational semantics is a fundamental disease of imperative programmers (including imperative OO ones). < 1499681155 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom extract < 1499681155 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: How do I extract the IO out of IO String? < 1499681157 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1499681200 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if you have only seen assembly code, you think programming is undoable" < 1499681249 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's only true if your assembly code is for a reversible machine. < 1499681304 0 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a reversible machine? < 1499681680 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an enichma < 1499681758 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Kayak is closer to a serious answer < 1499681855 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing < 1499682153 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there a language where programs built a group over concatenation? < 1499682395 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, burro wa sit < 1499685805 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: SoundHound has worked for me exactly once. < 1499685864 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how many times has it failed to work? < 1499685895 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i CompleteHound < 1499685907 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1499685926 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point was, have you tried it more than a handful of times? < 1499685935 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1499685947 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It showed me 20 searches in the history just now, but probably many of them were repeated attempts. < 1499685961 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de PART #esoteric : < 1499685962 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I probably cleared the history and/or switched phones at least once. < 1499685962 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1499685968 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: From googling, it seems to be similar to TrackID? < 1499685977 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a dozen attempts? < 1499685986 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is some Sony thing that came preinstalled on my Sony phone < 1499686006 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to only handle mainstream music < 1499686007 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always try it with music in my head, not music I hear. < 1499686017 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1499686025 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, humming the music? < 1499686028 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tells you to hum, whistle, or sing. < 1499686044 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah trackid doesn't even pretend to be able to do that < 1499686065 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tricky thing, to be fair. < 1499686115 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499686116 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway trackid kind of works, in low noise conditions, and if the music is popular enough. Good luck identifying obscure folk/world music < 1499686160 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The song it identified was "Song from a Secret Garden", which is part of an album called "Songs from a Secret Garden", by a band called "Secret Garden". < 1499686166 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this one is a bit famous? < 1499686225 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe it identified this one from listening to a recording, not humming. < 1499686228 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm not sure. < 1499686976 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "try whistling in tune" ) < 1499687032 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "in tune"? < 1499687048 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean approximately the same frequencies as the original, or just the same ratios? < 1499687082 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I transpose everything up by a semitone? How about 4.5 semitones? I assume any good system should handle that. < 1499687085 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it really means the former, and no I can't think of a good reason why the program wouldn't compensate for that. < 1499687101 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, when I want to use this program, I barely know the tune in the first place. < 1499687114 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a small fragment of it in my head that I can barely grasp onto. < 1499687325 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like kitsch? < 1499687537 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds as awful as the concept it embodies, does that make it onomatopoeia? < 1499687594 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked this talk: http://www.ludix.com/moriarty/apology.html < 1499687616 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's by the same person as that talk in The Witness that you may or may not have heard. < 1499687654 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the long one? < 1499687723 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1499687769 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, http://www.ludix.com/moriarty/psalm46.html < 1499687791 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the one. < 1499687954 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I recall I spent that time cooking, in and out of the room (it's a small flat, I could listen from the kitchen in principle but of course there were distractions) < 1499687978 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you do with fresh diced tomatoes? < 1499688005 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruschetta. < 1499688007 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I diced some tomatoes to make salad, but then it turned out the other vegetables I planned to use were rotten. < 1499688017 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I needed to make quick use of diced fresh tomatoes. < 1499688034 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: eat them? < 1499688041 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As was? < 1499688050 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tomatoes that is, not the rotten food < 1499688058 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I ended up cooking them into a sort of sauce and jamming up rice with it.) < 1499688062 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1499688073 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe oven baked tomatoes? < 1499688085 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some parmesan < 1499688115 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe. < 1499688151 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah tomatoes, parmesan and some herbs (preferably fresh, but tried probably works too) < 1499688184 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when diced? < 1499688186 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe oregano? < 1499688189 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1499688195 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep it in mind. < 1499688203 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you pronounce the h in herbs? < 1499688219 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I say kryddor in Swedish instead. < 1499688242 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't the h thing a dialect thing? < 1499688258 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably "erbs" in RP < 1499688267 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( herbe Enttäuschung ) < 1499688288 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the h was pronounced in British English in general. < 1499688291 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure if I pronounce the h. Probably varies? < 1499688310 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :herbe dragons < 1499688310 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a Swedish point of view it would make more sense to pronounce it < 1499688327 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure I'd pronounce it as well. < 1499688329 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: dragon is the Swedish name for tarragon < 1499688356 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the US, it's "an herb" < 1499688368 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the h pronounced or not? < 1499688382 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounced like "erb" < 1499688387 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good way to dice tomatoes? < 1499688403 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the most awkward kitchen activities. < 1499688409 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm going to settle for the compromise, and pronounce it slightly :P < 1499688420 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( freeze and saw... no I don't think that's actually a good way ) < 1499688425 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: plastic cutting board? < 1499688438 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :use less watery tomatoes? < 1499688446 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharp knife < 1499688450 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many sub-species < 1499688459 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes sharp knifes are good < 1499688470 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you pronounce the k in knife? < 1499688475 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume no < 1499688484 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1499688498 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The trouble is that you need three axes of cutting. < 1499688499 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is weird with it's non-pronounced letters. Why not just spell it nife then? < 1499688508 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not nayf? < 1499688523 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silent e is properly bizarre. < 1499688528 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nif? < 1499688531 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The funny thing about knot theory is that it's knot theory. < 1499688534 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :naif? < 1499688547 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't agree with the y < 1499688564 0 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd read "nif" as with /i:/ < 1499688567 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a naïf would spell it that way < 1499688572 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn naïf < 1499688573 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "naïf". < 1499688575 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn naif < 1499688576 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "naif" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1499688576 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :naif < 1499688577 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: marked by or showing unaffected simplicity and lack of < 1499688577 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : guile or worldly experience; "a teenager's naive < 1499688577 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ignorance of life"; "the naive assumption that things can < 1499688578 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[4 @more lines] < 1499688580 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1499688581 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1499688581 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list < 1499688589 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scambdabot < 1499688603 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :a naive person is a naif? Didn't know that word < 1499688607 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's.... interesting < 1499688616 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1499688616 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list < 1499688630 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it has always done this < 1499688631 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To my mind, i is a vowel and y is a consonant < 1499688638 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1499688645 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "knife" has a consonant < 1499688650 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows off the maturity of Haskell as a programming language. < 1499688656 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, in English y is a consonant < 1499688679 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :way nat < 1499688687 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is making me angry! < 1499688692 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yay) < 1499688694 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :y is a vowel in Swedish though < 1499688696 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1499688703 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @more thing? < 1499688717 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "angry" is a word where "y" is not a consonant. < 1499688727 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the @more thing doesn't really bother me. < 1499688736 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might fix it, but I feel no sense of urgency. < 1499688753 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure. ybden is probably angry. < 1499688763 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :aeyiuoåäö are vowels in Swedish < 1499688788 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, almost all the vowels are on the upper row of qwerty < 1499688796 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like mushrooms in Sweden? < 1499688798 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, all of them apart from a? < 1499688820 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: depends on what sort I guess? I prefer the edible ones that don't kill me :P < 1499688859 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like kantarells? < 1499688872 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a popular mushroom. < 1499688891 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't actively go out looking for them. Too much work, and I'm bad at spotting them < 1499688926 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So *why* are the vowels predominately on the top row of qwerty? < 1499688946 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense to group vowels together if they're rarely combined. < 1499688981 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why not put them on the home row. < 1499689000 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't qwerty designed for slow writing originally? To not break typewriters? < 1499689014 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was designed to not break typewrites. < 1499689015 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1499689029 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :aöä are the only vowels on the home row for me < 1499689033 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means you don't want adjacent keys to be pressed immediately one after the other. < 1499689057 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But putting common letter combinations far apart actually speeds you up because you can use both hands. < 1499689063 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1499689082 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether this is true but it makes more sense to me than "slows you down". < 1499689087 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1499689090 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for shachaf is Mon Jul 10 04:18:07 2017 < 1499689092 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep. < 1499689093 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the adjacency relation is probably this: qazwsxedcrfvtgbyhnujmik,ol.p;/['] < 1499689096 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1499689096 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Vorpal is Mon Jul 10 13:18:16 < 1499689100 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck with your mushroom hunting. < 1499689101 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, CTCP TIME < 1499689111 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't go mushroom hunting < 1499689117 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find it enoyable :P < 1499689123 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll need an awful lot of luck. < 1499689137 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some morels will grow in your back yard? < 1499689143 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like morels? < 1499689143 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rows are interleaved if I remember the workings of the mechanical typewriter that we got to play with as kids correctly) < 1499689147 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh? kind of vertically, right, makes some sense < 1499689169 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't have a backyard, I live in a apartment on the second floor < 1499689174 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, digits go in there as well I suppose < 1499689192 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a condo I guess the correct term is < 1499689203 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Every statement you make suggests that you need *more* luck, not less. < 1499689208 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I wish you luck. < 1499689217 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between a condo and an apartment? < 1499689219 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1499689226 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a flat? < 1499689229 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the form of ownership? < 1499689231 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1499689249 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I own the apartment as opposed to rent it. < 1499689265 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you still pay some form of rent, right? < 1499689270 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the shared building expenses? < 1499689273 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate says bostadsrätt -> condominium < 1499689289 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a bizarre chemical element. < 1499689299 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, there is that < 1499689301 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1499689337 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but I can renovate and do whatever I like with the interior < 1499689337 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I buy an apartment? < 1499689359 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell you that. You will have to decide based on your life situation if that makes sense for you or not < 1499689366 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it doesn't. < 1499689392 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the market is probably different in US than Sweden < 1499689421 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in this area of the US. < 1499689427 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1499689452 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the price/rent ratio is much higher here than elsewhere in the country. < 1499689457 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to buy some sour milk, almost out of it. < 1499689473 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you wait for your regular milk to become sour? < 1499689508 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmj%C3%B6lk ? < 1499689514 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: will likely not be the proper bacterial culture and thus will be poisonous < 1499689518 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes filmjölk < 1499689524 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-fil specifically < 1499689528 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SERRATED CHICKEN < 1499689549 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's only most likely, not certain. < 1499689561 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can get some of the excitement of mushroom hunting. < 1499689567 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1499689568 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1499689592 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pick some random mushroom, it might be poisonous or delicious. < 1499689594 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or both. < 1499689597 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1499689612 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: or possibly hallucinogenic < 1499689731 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may try your tomato trick. < 1499689746 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night. < 1499689760 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep well < 1499689804 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about tomatoes is that there's an amazing amount of variance in quality. < 1499689891 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: especially home growns < 1499689902 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are better quality than shop bought ones < 1499689910 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better than organic ones < 1499689925 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is organic tomatoes? < 1499689942 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are vegetables labeled as "organic" a good idea to buy? < 1499689956 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: organic food is food produced without using pesticides < 1499689965 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does organic farming produce vegetables that are more delicious or more healthy? < 1499689972 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? That doesn't sound right. < 1499689980 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean without certain classes of pesticides? < 1499690007 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I meant what I said. < 1499690008 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food < 1499690021 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, naturally occurring pesticides such as pyrethrin and rotenone are permitted, while synthetic fertilizers and pesticides are generally prohibited." < 1499690034 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's not your article, that's Organic_farming < 1499690054 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah it is the same. Some plants produce pesticides in and of themselves < 1499690091 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is organic farming sustainable? Does it waste resources? < 1499690101 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"organic" means so many different things. < 1499690103 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I read a study a while ago that showed that the levels of various toxins in the body decreased dramatically after eating only organic food for about a week. < 1499690124 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, when referring to animal products, it can mean the animals are treated better. Or sometimes not. < 1499690132 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 1) maybe 2) not really, depends on your definition < 1499690148 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the Swedish terms are more precise I feel like < 1499690152 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read that study. < 1499690159 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was a Swedish study I think < 1499690176 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I could find it, was maybe 1-2 years ago < 1499690178 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes get the impression that "organic" is primarily a marketing term designed to part rich people from their fAu. < 1499690195 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Swedish version is better. < 1499690207 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also, there are issues with pesticides killing off good insects as well. Like bees. < 1499690234 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is a standards organization with certification < 1499690240 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :KRAV < 1499690241 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand I'm rich by some measures, so maybe I should buy organic food to be on the safe side. < 1499690264 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if US has anything like KRAV < 1499690276 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a matter of price but a matter of principle. < 1499690293 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's way too late. < 1499690298 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try to sleep. < 1499690303 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1499690394 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you will have to study the topic and make up your own mind about it. I buy exclusively organic food for any food where it is available. (I.e. there is no organic salt, probably because the definition wouldn't make any sense) < 1499690464 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Good organic cheese can be hard to find as well. Other than that, I would say Sweden is probably one of the countries in the world where it is easiest to find organic alternatives < 1499692846 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Excess Flood < 1499692855 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1499692878 0 :sdhand!~sam@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Changing host < 1499692878 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1499693158 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:898:5233:6606:b873 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ahaha, I just noticed on the look around you periodic table, Music has the numbers 4 4, while Jazz has 5 4 < 1499694556 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499695232 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499697676 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499697747 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499697782 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1499698506 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:5876:18f1:58fb:7dc3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499698759 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:5876:18f1:58fb:7dc3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499698869 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: funny that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Moriarty should call that video an Easter egg. < 1499699373 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499699437 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499700218 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499700977 0 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1499700992 0 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1499701132 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:898:5233:6606:b873 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499701874 0 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:98df:ec9f:e96f:e3ec:a85b:e58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499703711 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:5876:18f1:58fb:7dc3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499704640 0 :augur!~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:5876:18f1:58fb:7dc3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499706870 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@134.58.253.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499706930 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1499706957 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc7a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de PART #esoteric : < 1499707550 0 :lord_EarlGray!~slawek@host-46-175-44-254.wtvk.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499707659 0 :lord_EarlGray!~slawek@host-46-175-44-254.wtvk.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1499707729 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1499707833 0 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1499708281 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499708781 0 :lord_EarlGray!~slawek@host-46-175-44-254.wtvk.pl PART #esoteric : < 1499709128 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499709299 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499709334 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1499709337 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499709339 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 1081 < 1499709340 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 1081: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas < 1499709345 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, apparently just two days after 1080 < 1499709424 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1499709631 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1499709746 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I live in Berkeley, CA. I don't think it's very difficult to find things labeled "organic". < 1499709764 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499709792 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Funny indeed. Did they listen to the talk? < 1499709825 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I trying to use LaTeX to print labels for the back of binders... < 1499709855 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ironically one bit that I did not listen to was where he says what the topic of the lecture is :-P (I skimmed the transcript) < 1499709866 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499709907 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uniformity and the exact typesettings were my original goals. Plus cutting guides and such. But getting LaTeX to actually place something at exact coordinates on a page and then make it line up across all pages is painful < 1499710015 0 :MrBismuth!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499710024 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1499710025 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :russell's teapot//Russell's little Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show? < 1499710032 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1499710033 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :785) zzo38: i only like games whose names start with "mine" < 1499710046 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`starwars < 1499710047 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scheme < 1499710047 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jocasta Nu < 1499710048 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tooth, Claw, and Tail < 1499710120 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499710173 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, unusual panel layout < 1499710173 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on some binders I want one or more lines of subtitles (like 2014-2017). This tends to move the title up compared to other binders. Such that the titles don't line up across the different binders < 1499710188 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499710234 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess LaTeX just isn't great for when you *do* want to worry about the layout. In that case you need to make your own style file I guess. Which is way over my LaTeX skills currently. < 1499710278 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Don't standard healing spells work against the virus? < 1499710435 0 :MrBusiness3!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499710459 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use Plain TeX (and have used it to make a label on the back of a binder once) < 1499710569 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that would need someone who can cast a level 3 cleric spell, and they'd probably have to do that for each creature on the airship at close to the same time. < 1499710605 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there has been in-comic discussion of how that works already < 1499710619 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1499710624 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a spell bards have access to. < 1499710625 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1499710639 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: IIRC related to the control weather thing < 1499710643 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess curing disease is distinct from curing wounds. < 1499710654 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vampire in Durkon's body uses control weather directly against a thunderstorm sent by Thor < 1499710668 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, sure, a discussion saying that they could indeed use standard healing spells. < 1499710676 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Thor has to let it succeed due to an agreement among the gods to allow each others' clerics to intervene < 1499710680 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, it can be done by the specific level 3 Cure Disease spell, or the level 6 Heal spell. < 1499710683 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose they don't have convenient access to a cleric. < 1499710685 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so standard healing spells should work here on the same reasoning < 1499710717 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that #1081 says every creature on the airship is inflected. That's a lot of people and animals. < 1499710724 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeDisease.htm < 1499710733 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, Belkar could cast it if given a Wisdom boost < 1499710737 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the odds of that happening are pretty low < 1499710761 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: TeX without addons? Hm < 1499710772 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the duration is long enough that it should be fixable after the current arc is over < 1499710785 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even in that unlikely case, Belkar could only cast it a few times < 1499710786 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: or is Plain TeX a specific addon to TeX? < 1499710838 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have a much higher chance to pay multiple clerics next time they stay in a town. but they just left a town and then a meeting of clerics. < 1499710844 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Plain TeX is the default addon to TeX. < 1499710855 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1499710891 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain TeX is the canon default template file in the sense that it's one of the templates Knuth himself has made and it's the one the TeXbook describes < 1499710892 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not boost Belkar's wisdom again? < 1499710897 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm googling for high level LaTeX solutions currently. There seem to be a few options. Not sure how well they will fit though. < 1499710955 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they solve my specific problem of lining specific types of lines up across multiple pages/labels. I already found a solution to putting multiple small pages on a single standard A4 < 1499711042 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are making labels rather than a book, you might also use a different output routine than the default one. < 1499711046 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because (a) boosting his wisdom was a joke, it doesn't really work, (b) it's a level 3 spell, you'd have to boost his wisdom to at least 13, which is likely impossible as his base is probably too low and the standard wisdom boost spell only gives +4, < 1499711069 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: different style? < 1499711079 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or document class as it were < 1499711096 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm searching for at the moment < 1499711100 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) even if they did that, he'd get at most two uses of a level 3 spell per day, and the Cure Disease spell only fixes one person, and that person can be reinfected. < 1499711114 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://ctan.org/pkg/labels and https://www.ctan.org/pkg/ticket both seems potentially relevant < 1499711185 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be JOIN :#esoteric < 1499711257 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) Owl's Wisdom can bring Belkar through the wisdom limit, but it doesn't count for the number of spells prepared, which I think will probably still be zero for Belkar because of his low base wisdom < 1499711293 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the spell is specified like this because regaining spells takes a rest of at least two hours, but Owl's Wisdom increases someone's wisdom only for a few minutes) < 1499711346 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) was my largest objection to the plan < 1499711351 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others are pretty relevant too, though < 1499711357 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw, I think (a) is caused by (d)) < 1499711371 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: DnD? < 1499711407 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it based on context. Or it is MtG knowing this channel < 1499711425 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, (a) is caused mostly by (d) and partly by (b) < 1499711456 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: D&D, related to what happens in the Order of the Stick strip #1081 < 1499711465 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1499711479 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c801:d7f:77e1:92be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1499711483 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I tried to ask about M:tG rules too yesterday, but ais523 denied that he knew them < 1499711486 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I played a couple of systems, but never DnD itself. < 1499711502 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an expert on them < 1499711527 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the last time his wisdom score was raised it was used for casting a scroll. < 1499711544 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Savage World, Apocalypse World and a pretty good yet to be published Swedish system (I have a friend who is really into designing role playing systems) < 1499711590 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait wait, (a) can't be caused by (d). The joke use was for a scroll, the number of prepared spells doesn't matter for that, only a spell difficulty check does, right? < 1499711603 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it wasn't Apocalypse World, but Dungeon World iirc, same style of system, different theme though. < 1499711640 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not an expert at this) < 1499711650 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one thing that could work though is potions of Remove Disease. Those exist. < 1499711685 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we've recently seen that the OotS was lucky and found two or three cheap source of potions, besides the usual random drops and shops < 1499711858 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And using potions is easy in general, even without a cleric the OotS would manage. < 1499711990 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499711991 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the ticket package for LaTeX will be able to do what I want. Maybe or maybe not crop marks in light gray though. It can do crop marks certainly < 1499712351 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Newton is overrated. His work on calculus was very much derivative. ) < 1499712874 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499713764 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1499713799 0 :Remavas!~Remavas@unaffiliated/remavas JOIN :#esoteric < 1499715053 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I did not mention different style, different document class, I said a different output routine. < 1499715176 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did write also a program to rasterize DVI files into PBM format, which can then be converted by use of foo2zjs or whatever, into the format needed for the printer. < 1499715223 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: What M:tG rules you try to ask about please? < 1499715310 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/17.07.07 use of linked abilities of a permanent when that permanent has got those abilities indirectly through either a copy effect or a quicksilver effect < 1499715328 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I asked you too a few months ago, when ais wasn't here < 1499715424 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either, unfortunately. < 1499715427 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm primarily interested in a general rule, not rulings for specific cases. < 1499715448 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least a general rule when quicksilver effects aren't involved. < 1499716295 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that it can still remember, although it is entirely unclear. < 1499716442 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :607.5 is phrased unclearly. It does seem to claim at least that the ability on an object can't ever be linked with an ability on another object, so you can't eg. exile cards with one permanent and use them by activating the ability on another permanent. < 1499716470 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1499716504 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 607.1a seems to contradicts this. I think 607.1a tries to clarify how cards like Cho-Manno's Blessing or Ward Sliver work. < 1499716628 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the rules are entirely unclear. My opinion is that a precise mathematically elegant and logical framework should be described by the rules, in order to make these things clear, because as it is, some things aren't so clear. < 1499716667 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, but developing and maintaining such a framework might not be economically worth for anyone < 1499716725 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be willing to help work on such thing < 1499717122 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have think better might be made by "AST graph linking", and the way I am thinking, they would still work, although in the case of Ward Sliver it is "instantiated parameterized keyword ability", although similar things can still be done with nonkeyword abilities too if needed. < 1499717207 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is all sort of stuff like that (and stuff somewhat similar, including stuff already exist but now I made up the name for it), such as "persistent property", "mana step", "kind", "initial text", etc. < 1499717255 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will you think of it? < 1499717483 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499717711 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In fact, even instants like Blessed Breath may count. There are even more of those than auras Cho-Manno's Blessing. (I have several of both of these categories in my collection. At one point I decided granting protection was cool and bought a lot of them.) < 1499717828 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : I did write also a program to rasterize DVI files into PBM format, which can then be converted by use of foo2zjs or whatever, into the format needed for the printer. <-- not sure why that is relevant. The output routine would be like "pdftex" or "luatex"? < 1499717852 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean by that term < 1499717888 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: An output routine is something defined in the TeX file, by using the \output command. Once a page is completed, it calls that, which then adds headers and footers, and ships it out to the DVI file. < 1499718093 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permanents that grant protection or landwalk with a choosable parameter include: Cho-Manno's Blessing, Flickering Ward (costs W), Floating Shield, Pentarch Ward, Riders of Gavony, Runed Halo (strange one), Traveler's Cloak, Ward of Light, Ward Sliver. < 1499718113 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah < 1499718150 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the ticket LaTeX package seems to be usable for my needs. < 1499718158 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no need to reinvent the wheel < 1499718188 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although you don't really need a custom output routine to get specific positions. You can just adjust various distance parameters. < 1499719093 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1499719444 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrgh < 1499719469 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1){ if(n == 0) break; n--; ... } < 1499719528 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they just want to make sure that the loop is entered at least once < 1499719552 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but why < 1499719585 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is about more than just fill in the blanks < 1499719588 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm replacing it with while(n--!=0) < 1499719594 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its about freedom < 1499719709 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the freedom to write three lines instead of 1? < 1499719830 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! real programmers aren't satisfied with the limiting abstractions < 1499720071 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfork14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52412&oldid=23594 5* 03Zseri 5* (+134) 10/* Examples */ < 1499720170 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (1) { if(n == 0) break; n--; ... } and while (n--!=0) { ... } aren't the same thing if 'n' is used after the loop. < 1499720430 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a serious topic, ++, --, pop, and get seem similar because they use up a value off a sequence, are there common uses for ++,-- that don't fit into this? < 1499720449 0 :myname!~myname@ks300980.kimsufi.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should at leas be while(--n!=0) < 1499720544 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's pretty different as well, since it won't run the body as n == 0. < 1499720591 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution for n--!=0 would be just to increment it after the loop < 1499720635 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The use of ++ in something that builds a histogram as in for (...) h[i]++; doesn't sound like "use up a value off a sequence" to me. < 1499720638 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there is more than one exit < 1499720691 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizze: I'll ignore all the cases where ++ is only used for its side effect < 1499720757 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's an esolang implementation somewhere using *++p = x; for something tape-related. < 1499720861 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that is quite different from using up a value. < 1499721259 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :++*p++ < 1499721293 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ the above is, amazingly, NOT undefined behaviour < 1499721309 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes perfect sense to me < 1499721326 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it incements the value p points to and then increments p < 1499721359 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: how is that not undefined... Where is the sequence point? < 1499721359 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you write a loop that loops over both indices and elements of an array? < 1499721370 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do --*++*p++ < 1499721385 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An array has one more index than it has elements. < 1499721389 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: you may need some parentheses? < 1499721400 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is none needed, since p is only modified once < 1499721414 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vlaue p points to is only modified once < 1499721423 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no sequnce point problem < 1499721444 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: what makes it increment the pointed to value before the pointer though? < 1499721448 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you write: for (i = 0; ; i++) { ...i...; if (i == len) break; ...a[i]...; } < 1499721485 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ++x returns the incremented vlaue. x++ returns the value, then increments it < 1499721497 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true < 1499721514 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (increments it, then returns the original value) < 1499721515 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ++prefix have higher operator precedence than suffix++? < 1499721534 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they had the same precedence < 1499721556 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all suffixes attach more strongly than prefixes < 1499721571 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains it then < 1499721598 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`*x++' <=> `*(x++)' < 1499721599 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: *x++': not found < 1499721610 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not code that I write very often, (and if I ever saw that in a code review I would not accept it) < 1499721614 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1499721644 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: anyway what doesthiswork suggested, could you do this multiple layers with something like int** p; ? < 1499721649 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like `*x[1]' <=> `*(x[1])' < 1499721659 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would you at that point need parentheses? < 1499721663 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499721676 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :--*++*p++ would work fine < 1499721685 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know this is valid C99? int foo(int x, int y[f(x)]) { ... } < 1499721712 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know this is valid C99? int foo(int n, int m, int a[n][m]) { ... } < 1499721716 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the function call in the [] is valid? what does it do? < 1499721721 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The value of n isn't used but the value of m is. < 1499721729 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it had to be a immediate constant < 1499721730 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's evaluated when the function is called. < 1499721735 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, any expression. < 1499721751 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, C99 specifies the optional dynamic sized arrays feature. it's a controversial topic: some people love it, and some people hate it. < 1499721752 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, and then you get the result by using sizeof? neat! < 1499721761 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so... that becomes available to the sizeof operator inside the function then? < 1499721761 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally dislike C99 dynamic sized arrays. < 1499721803 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's used for multidimensiona array indexing. < 1499721814 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like dynamically sized stuff on the stack, but elsewhere I don't care. < 1499721814 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1499721837 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: is the ++*p++ thing valid C++ as well hm < 1499721843 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :should test that < 1499721853 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it would be, but you can't be sure < 1499721897 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ really did have *some* good ideas for how to improve C. Namespaces for example. Shame it had soooo many bad ideas. < 1499722185 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1499722241 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1499722262 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also templates could have been neat, had they NOT been turing complete. I had to write specialized functions for different data types before in C, that could have been auto generated in C++ with templates. Such is the world of inner loops of embedded software < 1499722431 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator overloading was amistake < 1499722528 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the way operator overloading is used in the C++ standard library is a huuge mistake < 1499722550 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :such strong opinions < 1499722562 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< and >> sould never have been used for io < 1499722603 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should be able to overload // and /* < 1499722619 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iostream is a massive, globally-reaching fuckup < 1499722706 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think operator overloading in C++ is fine in general. There are some minor problems connected to operator overloading, some of which are minor design mistakes (some of which could be fixed even now), some are overzelous operator overloading in certain third-party libraries. < 1499722761 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, string concatenation should never have been + < 1499722781 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it should have been * like in julia < 1499722844 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I particularly hate is how the C++ standard doesn't support C99 builtin complex floating point types, but only the old std::complex class template with operator overloading. < 1499722867 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the point? All sane compilers want to support C99 builtin complex floats, so why not just allow them in C++ too? < 1499722898 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: that would be ok, but you know what would be better? < 1499722919 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gcc allows them fine, but it would be nice if certain details (like which macros are still defined in C++ when you load the header) should be standardized so that this could be used portably. < 1499722921 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: overloaded whitespace < 1499722938 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: exactly! < 1499722943 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah like snobol < 1499722953 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: you can overload the combination / * < 1499722955 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that count? < 1499723010 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, personally I find the << >> iostream thing rather cute. < 1499723045 0 :MrBusiness!~ArcMrBism@2602:306:8325:a300:c410:147b:575d:342d JOIN :#esoteric < 1499723048 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how awful formatting is, even with iomanip < 1499723111 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: void (*foo)(void) = ...; void (*bar)(void) = **********foo; < 1499723138 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think C++ should support arbitrary operators rather than just the built-in ones. < 1499723154 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellolum < 1499723163 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just talking about that the other day. < 1499723167 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1499723172 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another channel. < 1499723174 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious. < 1499723189 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it sort of does, but you have to use named functions for them and use ADL. Such ops use only slightly different rules than true punctuation operators. < 1499723211 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean? < 1499723214 0 :ybden!ybden@unaffiliated/ybden PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't C a wonderful language < 1499723248 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write my C code explicitly. < 1499723254 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( A great source of vulnerabilities ) < 1499723257 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem is that there are a few named functions (but not all) where the standard library and its standard specs is badly designed, so it's sometimes unclear how the user should specialize certain functions for which C++ provides a default impl but are often specialized. < 1499723259 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So call every function by writing (&f)(...) instead of f(...) < 1499723295 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: should I expand on this? < 1499723347 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1499723357 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? I don't think I follow. < 1499723483 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there are certain operations that function templates often want to call generically on multiple types. there are two kinds of these: (A) ones for which there can't really be a generic implementation and have to be defined individually for each type, and (B) one for which there is a default implementation but you want to specialize them for < 1499723483 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric : some types. < 1499723568 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A) include for example operator+(x,y) and operator<(x,y), but also some named functions like begin(x) and size(x) and abs(x) < 1499723668 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, these are already handled easily in C++. You just define an overload for that function in an associated namespace, and then the rules of C++ will make everything work just fine. < 1499723688 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For operators, the rules are slightly different, and you can sometimes define them as member functions, but the basic idea is the same. < 1499723759 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ stdlib defines operator+, operator<, size(x), abs(x) for several library types, and the latter two are also defined for some builtin types (arrays), the former two are essentially defined for some builtin types by the language (technically those are not true functions, but the difference hardly matters). < 1499723852 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category (B) is trickier. Named functions in these category include swap(x,y) and max(x,y). The library defines such generic templates for these that match most types, but you also want to specialize them for some types. < 1499723952 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that the proper way to call such a function is something like { using std::swap; swap(x,y); } or something like that, and that it's easy to call them wrong in which case you may get the generic implementation instead of the specialized one or get an error. < 1499723976 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a lot of confusion about how users should properly define specializations for these outside the stdlib. < 1499724031 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the stdlib could have done is to define two functions: one that users overload, and one that they call, and the one you call does the proper magic. That way there would be less confusion. < 1499724124 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1499724158 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There operators under (B) like copy constructors and move constructors and copy assignment and move assignment and destructor and operator,(x,y). These don't have a generic stdlib impl, but the language often auto-generates them for your type, and in that case there's no problem because the language rules are done well.) < 1499724237 0 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1499724636 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499724849 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1499725793 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1499725935 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :imperial marmots | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah < 1499726870 0 :wob_jonas!b03f19a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1499727197 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1499727571 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1499727661 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1499727665 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/1:subtle//The 'b' sound is pronounced in 'subtle', it's just difficult to hear. \ 2600//2600 Hz is a tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. \ yeeeeesh//See yeeeesh. \ ssss//SSSS refers to the Stand Still, Stay Silent webcomic. \ structsubural type//Something Bike is into. Not to be confused with suburban destruction. < 1499727692 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget yeeeeesh < 1499727695 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1499727736 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499728134 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forget what?" is still funny < 1499728166 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A question < 1499728192 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about converting https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit to wikitext as mentioned at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Getchl < 1499728206 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to obtain the permission of the creator? < 1499728219 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to complete the article < 1499728270 0 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1499728281 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily. i suspect yeeeeesh filled a much needed gap. < 1499728295 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`grwp yeee < 1499728296 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeeesh:See yeeeeeesh. \ yeeeeeesh:See yeeeeesh. \ yeeeesh:See yeeesh. < 1499728465 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cd wisdom; /bin/ls | grep -P '^ye+sh$' < 1499728467 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeeeeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeeesh \ yeeeeeesh \ yeeeesh \ yeeesh < 1499728488 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg yeeeeesh < 1499728496 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :11079:2017-07-10 forget yeeeeesh \ 6200:2015-11-10 le/rn yeeeeesh/See yeeeesh. < 1499728514 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg yeeeeeeeeesh < 1499728521 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10346:2017-03-04 forget yeeeeeeeeesh \ 6228:2015-11-19 le/rn yeeeeeeeeesh/See yeeeeeeeesh. < 1499728540 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan. < 1499728543 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm. < 1499728545 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1499728546 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1499728547 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kerbal__: hm you _might_ say the "will later be converted to wikitext" gives implicit permission... < 1499728549 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1499728557 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have them in fibonacci sequence? < 1499728559 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to the much needed gap < 1499728570 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kerbal__: however, hppavilion[1] is right here, so just ask. < 1499728587 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he might be a little bit idle. < 1499728598 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mapoles hppavilion[1] < 1499728606 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it was filled again < 1499728622 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, am I the creator? < 1499728636 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah < 1499728643 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was confused for a moment < 1499728648 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kerbal__: Yeah, go ahead. < 1499728858 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: fortunately there's still a gap left. < 1499728874 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1499728878 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ nit//Nits are there to be picked. \ kinder surprise//Kinder Surprise is an addictive drug marketed for children so dangerous it's banned at the federal level. \ lie bracket//Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies < 1499728888 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1499728889 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2: that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. \ tachyon//The tachyon is rude and has no style, but gets away with it because of its speed. Taneb will invent it if he ever catches up. < 1499729206 0 :deep-book-gk_!~1wm_su@50.118.215.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1499729334 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks! < 1499729345 0 :deep-book-gk_!~1wm_su@50.118.215.100 PART #esoteric : < 1499729409 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wissub < 1499729410 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wissub? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1499730011 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Do you have any documents about WalrusOS? < 1499730066 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorcah. wissub? < 1499730353 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, are the tape and the accumulator separate? < 1499730508 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kerbal__: I don't think I have documents about WalrusOS < 1499730539 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kerbal__: And the accumulator is distinct, yes < 1499730549 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I just wanted to be sure < 1499730607 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: FIDGET CHICKEN < 1499730979 0 :__kerbal__!683239a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.50.57.160 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the tape infinite in both directions or only one? < 1499731036 0 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I'm hoping the dev server isn't literally on fire