←2017-07-10 2017-07-11 2017-07-12→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:01:07 <hppavilion[1]> __kerbal__: Both, I believe. It was a while ago that I wrote this. I can barely understand my own prose.
00:01:11 * hppavilion[1] should learn PERL
00:04:05 <__kerbal__> Um... how does that work, exactly? Is it a quantum thing?
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00:05:13 <oerjan> \oren\: but maybe if it _were_ on fire, you might finally get rid of the build system!
00:08:55 <\oren\> literally everything is broken
00:09:46 <\oren\> email, ssh, and even hipchat are all fucking dead
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00:14:05 <fizzie> Sounds like a Cloud At Cost server to me.
00:15:47 <\oren\> has california just been annihilated by nuclear attack?
00:15:53 <shachaf> oerjan: why do you keep bugging \oren\ about the build system
00:19:30 <oerjan> i was just trying to raise his hopes hth
00:20:11 <oerjan> also, i thought you were the one previously doing that.
00:20:22 <shachaf> looks like it's not necessary anymore tdh
00:20:49 <shachaf> i accidentally saw a photograph of \oren\ the other day
00:20:59 <oerjan> was it shocking?
00:21:01 <shachaf> photographs are scow
00:21:07 <shachaf> it was mildly shocking
00:21:23 <oerjan> \oren\: i think not, unless shachaf is a ghost
00:21:29 <FireFly> how did that happen?
00:21:55 <shachaf> I was trying to remember whether it was SoundHound that he worked at.
00:22:03 <shachaf> oh man
00:22:07 <shachaf> "I have experience using both the Waterfall methodology and Agile/XP methodologies."
00:22:14 <shachaf> so many methodologies
00:22:59 <\oren\> yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process
00:23:16 <shachaf> isn't "waterfall" a straw man that people use to sell scrum
00:23:24 <\oren\> pretty much
00:23:32 <doesthiswork> yup
00:23:36 <shachaf> 16:00 <shachaf> I read some passwords from https://www.isi.edu/natural-language/people/poem/poem.php and now I can't stop thinking in iambic tetrameter.
00:23:51 <oerjan> the hydrological cycle methodology
00:23:54 <\oren\> next time I update linkedin I shoudl delete that line
00:24:15 <shachaf> Are you going to keep working at this company?
00:24:35 <shachaf> They can't even get my humming right.
00:25:05 <\oren\> assuming working conditions remain ok, and they keep paying me, why not?
00:25:33 <shachaf> Well, the servers are on fire, and you hate your build system.
00:25:48 <shachaf> Why not work at a company that pays you twice as much?
00:25:58 <oerjan> . o O ( someone should invent the scram methodology )
00:26:26 <\oren\> hey, they're back online!
00:26:35 <shachaf> oerjan: https://68.media.tumblr.com/74d95a31741535ce4661efb0c710d8ac/tumblr_inline_mhyiwy6aAE1qz4rgp.png
00:26:38 <\oren\> I wonder hwy everything broke suddenly
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00:27:21 <\oren\> shachaf: i've had offers but they all involved moving to the usa
00:27:31 <\oren\> and well... fuck that
00:27:39 <shachaf> Why don't you like the USA?
00:28:12 <\oren\> dangerous
00:29:01 <shachaf> I feel like I did the iambic tetrameter thing in here before.
00:29:04 <shachaf> Or at least somewhere in IRC.
00:29:31 <oerjan> shachaf: hm i remember that from last you told me about those, i think. (but not what they were called.)
00:30:00 <shachaf> http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/16.06.07
00:30:05 <shachaf> 22:39:20 <shachaf> oerjan: placenta-based homology? / i owe you an apology
00:30:12 <shachaf> That's right.
00:30:50 <oerjan> shachaf: not the tetrameters, the scrams
00:30:57 <\oren\> the usa is a dangerous place, a lot of the places require owning (and learning to drive) a car, and I like my free healthcare
00:31:04 <shachaf> Oh.
00:31:16 <shachaf> oerjan: They're called knids in English, apparently.
00:31:23 <shachaf> I didn't read the book in English, I don't think.
00:31:47 <shachaf> \oren\: Well, you can move somewhere that doesn't require a car.
00:32:27 <shachaf> How much are you willing to pay for free healthcare?
00:34:02 <\oren\> it's... free
00:34:54 <shachaf> I thought you were saying you had offers to be paid twice as much to move to the USA.
00:35:56 <shachaf> oerjan: I think the iambic tetrameter I was thinking of may have been Kubla Khan.
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00:43:22 <wob_jonas> "yeah... i mean "waterfall" is just a stupid name for a normal long-cycle development process" => wait, I thought "waterfall" was management-speak for "we don't know what the program we want to create has to do, but just create 90% of it anyway without a spec, then near the end we'll tell what it should have done and you'll just change it to do tha
00:43:22 <wob_jonas> t instead in a week."
00:45:30 <\oren\> lol
00:46:16 <wob_jonas> I admit I know little about all this methodology andpattern thing.
00:46:58 <wob_jonas> We have a software team with buzzword-oriented development though, you could ask them.
00:52:20 <wob_jonas> They're competent, mind you, but they have all these complicated procedures and meetings and task tracking docs.
00:56:46 <oerjan> restarting my browser when i have 3 youtube tabs open is somewhat noisy.
00:57:57 <shachaf> a man who seldom speaks his mind / can cause behavior undefined
00:58:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Getchl]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52413&oldid=45294 * Kerbal * (+8849) Added the info from https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing
00:58:35 <__kerbal__> hppavilion[1]: Here you go
00:58:45 <__kerbal__> not perfect, but a start
00:58:45 <hppavilion[1]> __kerbal__: Yay
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01:24:23 <__kerbal__> An idea... what if the only storage in a program was the title thing that displays above a program window in Windows? Or some other bizarre component normally used for something else?
01:24:55 <__kerbal__> Would be a weird language
01:32:58 <hppavilion[1]> __kerbal__: Huh, perhaps. But it sounds more like a hack than an inherently-weird feature
01:33:13 <__kerbal__> True...
01:33:40 <__kerbal__> You've a point
01:42:58 <__kerbal__> I still am thinking about building a framework for executing multiple tape-based languages on the same tape. That could be a useful, very esoteric way to leverage the benefits of multiple languages. You could download and share images between programs by combining Graphical BF and Netf***, and implement threading with Weave or a similar language.
01:43:26 <__kerbal__> I know that all the languages I mentioned are BF variants, but you could use others as well, like my esolang
01:48:37 <__kerbal__> You'd have a readable, simple language (I'm calling it TapeLang right now) holding everything together. Perhaps (although this may or may not actually happen) the language would treat other programs as first-class citizens
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03:01:02 <shachaf> `5 w
03:01:06 <HackEgo> 1/2:lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ mousse//A mousse is a sharp rodent. "A mousse once bit my sister." \ monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details,
03:01:08 <shachaf> `n
03:01:09 <HackEgo> 2/2: if you find him. \ code//[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...
03:01:15 <shachaf> `cwlprits code
03:01:21 <HackEgo> tsweẗt int-̈e
03:01:49 <shachaf> `dowg code
03:01:55 <HackEgo> 5674:2015-06-24 <tsweẗt> echo \'[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...\' > wisdom/code \ 5658:
03:02:00 <shachaf> `2 dowg code
03:02:07 <HackEgo> 2/2:658:2015-06-23 <int-̈e> le/rn code/5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1
03:02:32 <shachaf> int-e, Warrigal: what's all this then?
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05:36:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XRF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52414&oldid=41670 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link
05:37:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Slim]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52415&oldid=45218 * Scoppini * (+2) Fix link
05:42:25 <\oren\> Hmm, I think what I need is to write a preprocessor for kerboscript programs. I will write said preprocessor itself in kerboscript.
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07:58:52 <int-e> `? password
07:58:53 <HackEgo> The password of the month is out of date tdnh
08:00:30 <int-e> shachaf: mine was contextual; <tswett> Randomly generated error message: <tswett> 13:37:54: <oerjan> `run echo $ 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1
08:01:08 <int-e> ... <tswett> 15:09:28: <HackEgo> data darn, preceding the complete path
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08:03:28 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is blowin' in the wind.
08:03:30 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is blowin' in the wind.
08:10:43 <shachaf> `dowg password
08:10:49 <HackEgo> 11081:2017-07-11 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 <shachäf> revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 <shachäf> revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 <boil̈y> le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595:
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15:09:59 <doesthiswork> I'm looking for some good spam so I can pretend to be a bot on a webforum
15:10:22 <doesthiswork> does anyone know an abandoned forum that I can mine for material?
15:11:00 <oerjan> doesthiswork: https://esolangs.org/forum/ hth
15:11:32 <doesthiswork> perfect, thank you
15:11:34 <oerjan> the spam isn't very fresh though, since it's also readonly.
15:15:13 <doesthiswork> stale is fine, quantity is what I needed
15:15:15 <int-e> we had a forum? wow...
15:16:19 <int-e> And wow, selling box sets of DVDs. How quaint. No Game of Thrones either.
15:17:25 <int-e> (what a difference 6 years can make)
15:40:01 <oerjan> --- part: lord_EarlGray left #esoteric <-- i guess we weren't his cup of tea.
15:43:52 <fizzie> There were even a few non-spam posts in the forum.
15:43:54 <fizzie> Not many though.
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16:38:11 <imode> word-addressible or byte-addressible?
16:38:30 <imode> s/sible/sable
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17:22:42 <oerjan> `dowg password
17:22:48 <HackEgo> 11081:2017-07-11 <int-̈e> learn The password of the month is blowin\' in the wind. \ 10981:2017-06-02 <shachäf> revert \ 10980:2017-06-02 <shachäf> revert \ 10979:2017-06-02 <oerjän> learn The password of the month is out of date tdnh \ 10898:2017-05-14 <boil̈y> le/rn password//The password of the month is poochpoochpoochpoochpooch \ 10595:
17:23:58 <int-e> deja vu.
17:24:48 <oerjan> so it was.
17:25:03 <oerjan> i was surprised it had really been a month.
17:25:12 <oerjan> `? time flies
17:25:12 <HackEgo> time flies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:25:19 <int-e> bzzz!
17:25:26 <oerjan> `` grwp -i time flies
17:25:27 <HackEgo> grep: flies: No such file or directory \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ `4:`4 <cmd> is equivalent to `5 <cmd>, except that it only repeats 4 times. Useful when you've already run a command forgetting to use `5. \ `5:`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd>
17:25:37 <oerjan> `` grwp -i 'time flies'
17:25:39 <HackEgo> No output.
17:25:59 <oerjan> `? arrow
17:26:00 <HackEgo> Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors.
17:26:01 <int-e> . o O ( time flies are buzzing around the clock )
17:28:53 <oerjan> `learn_append arrow Time flies are attracted to them.
17:28:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'arrow': Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. Time flies are attracted to them.
17:29:01 <oerjan> oops
17:29:03 <oerjan> `revert
17:29:04 <HackEgo> Done.
17:29:35 <oerjan> oh wait
17:29:38 <oerjan> `revert
17:29:39 <HackEgo> Done.
17:29:52 <int-e> `? hand
17:29:52 * oerjan got confused by the absence of "Relearned"
17:29:53 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
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17:36:22 <doesthiswork> that's what she says
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17:56:13 <\oren\> hey. what if you have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole words
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18:06:50 <int-e> . o O ( what if I have a machine that is byte-addressed but only reads whole cache lines, except for memory regions marked specially to indicate that they are used for memory mapped IO? )
18:09:02 <int-e> why on Earth would anyone send an email with Reply-To == To ?
18:09:23 <myname> because it's fun?
18:09:55 <int-e> (It *was* an email that people might want to reply to. Maybe it's a way to fend off automatic replies like the notorious out of office emails.)
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18:16:47 <shachaf> Just send it to Steve Morshead
18:18:32 <int-e> cute
18:18:49 <int-e> but apparently they closed the account
18:19:05 <int-e> oh, are closing, I see
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18:31:59 <int-e> Actually the notice was sent in June. So it may be gone, unless the public shaming had any effect.
18:32:27 <shachaf> Why don't you email and ask?
18:32:35 <shachaf> See if you get a reply.
18:32:39 <shachaf> `5 w
18:32:44 <HackEgo> 1/1:brevity//syn. "shortness" \ macedonia//Macedonia is a country of which the United Nations denies the existence, just like Taiwan is. \ bird//The Bird is Cruel! \ pastry//A pastry is a sugary confectionery that is customarily eaten after writing an essay. \ bdsm//BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
18:33:13 <int-e> and I'm done talking to shachaf.
18:33:25 <shachaf> :-(
18:37:33 <shachaf> `cwlprits bird
18:37:39 <HackEgo> shachäf Phantom_Hoovër nortẗi Phantom_Hoovër
18:37:44 <shachaf> `dowg bird
18:37:51 <HackEgo> 10471:2017-03-21 <shachäf> learn The Bird is Cruel! \ 2180:2013-02-19 <Phantom_Hoovër> learn bird bird bird bird \ 2179:2013-02-19 <nortẗi> learn bird is a dinosaur \ 2178:2013-02-19 <Phantom_Hoovër> learn bird bird bird bird
18:37:55 <shachaf> `forget bird
18:37:56 <HackEgo> Forget what?
18:38:01 <int-e> `? canary
18:38:02 <HackEgo> A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up.
18:38:04 <shachaf> bird! what's the matter with you?
18:38:17 <int-e> `cat canary
18:38:18 <HackEgo> cat: canary: Permission denied
18:38:41 <shachaf> Remember when we figured out how to delete canary?
18:38:44 <shachaf> It broke everything.
18:38:48 <shachaf> It was great.
18:38:50 <int-e> I remember
18:38:58 <int-e> I'm surprised this unreadable one doesn't do the same thing
18:39:03 <int-e> `stat canary
18:39:03 <HackEgo> ​ File: ‘canary’ \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 1024 regular empty file \ Device: 12h/18dInode: 657446 Links: 1 \ Access: (0000/----------) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2017-05-15 14:57:34.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2017-04-17 19:17:05.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2017-05-15 15:23:19.0000000
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18:40:57 <shachaf> `5 w
18:41:03 <HackEgo> 1/2:despair//Despair is but the first step towards eternal damnation. \ cofridge logic//Cofridge logic is the new HoTT stuff. \ c++//Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. \ victoria//Queen Victoria is the most victorious queen the world has ever known, even having won at the not dying contest. \ identity function//The identity function
18:41:09 <shachaf> `n
18:41:09 <HackEgo> 2/2:is a mockingbird.
18:41:14 <int-e> `cwlprits canary
18:41:20 <HackEgo> boil̈y oerjän FireFl̈y FireFl̈y
18:43:21 <ybden> `? canary
18:43:22 <HackEgo> A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up.
18:43:38 <ybden> CAVE CHICKEN
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19:45:31 <int-e> . o O ( What's the current maximal size of Russell's teapot, say, at 99% confidence? )
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22:20:18 <int-e> fizzie: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/factory.jpg ... screenshot from a video game (Broken Sword 5, an okay click & point adventure game, better than parts 3 and 4 so far)
22:25:12 <fizzie> Heh. Well, it's iconic.
22:25:19 <fizzie> I played the one set in Paris.
22:25:32 <fizzie> ("Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars – Director's Cut", I think.)
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22:36:25 <int-e> "the one set in Paris" is kind of cute... I think they all have a part playing in Paris.
22:37:01 <fizzie> Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that one anyway.
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22:44:24 <int-e> (the main issue with parts 3 and 4 is the awkward 3D interface... part 5 is back to 2D graphics with painted scenes, and more traditional puzzles (parts 3 and 4 feature some scenes where you need to evade guards, and some sokoban style puzzles... at the same time skimping on the more traditional interactions)
22:44:38 <int-e> `? )
22:44:43 <HackEgo> ​)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:45:01 <int-e> . o O ( `learn ) is the missing closing parenthesis, provided here for balance. )
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23:12:15 <boily> `5 w
23:12:20 <HackEgo> 1/2:wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ hðh//hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photogra
23:13:01 <boily> `n
23:13:02 <HackEgo> 2/2:phs and drawings. \ html//HTML is short for "hope this mess loads". \ 21//21 is both half the answer and a cardgame. The latter is similiar to Bladder-Burst?.
23:13:35 <wob_jonas> I'm often confused when I read about food on the internet. I don't know enough about food in general, and also it comes with a lot of specialized vocabulary separately in English and Hungarian where I don't know translations nor meanings of lots of words in either language.
23:13:52 <wob_jonas> So I started to make some notes: first about the type of cereals at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Types_of_cereal
23:13:57 <wob_jonas> Next I should do the types of nuts/.
23:18:13 <boily> wellob_jonas!
23:19:04 <wob_jonas> helloily (oily like nuts.)
23:19:40 <boily> cooking is best done by ear; it has to sound right when doing it.
23:20:24 <boily> and imperial units all the way. none of that gram and decilitre shenanigans.
23:20:48 <wob_jonas> what? no way
23:20:56 <wob_jonas> metric is useful for cooking
23:21:13 <wob_jonas> imperial is for fantasy stuff like dungeon corridor widths and minifig sizes
23:21:35 <wob_jonas> and weights of items in your inventory
23:22:13 <wob_jonas> you measure foodstuff in metric, which is convenient because most of them are typically packaged in round amounts of metric units (kilograms or liters)
23:22:51 <wob_jonas> (some actually must be packaged in round amounts by law, some are just packaged that way by custom)
23:23:32 <boily> tablespoons, cups, pounds and fahrenheit!
23:24:48 <wob_jonas> you could perhaps make an argument for teaspoons and tablespoons of spice or salt, yeah, the previous argument doesn't apply to them because you use only small amount at a time
23:24:58 <wob_jonas> but why cups and pounds?
23:25:33 <boily> cups are tremendously useful. quarter, third, half and one cup. it's the same measure for all your ingredients.
23:26:26 <boily> pounds are just... anthropocentric? eg. ¼ lb for a meat patty. it's a nice number, easy to remember.
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23:29:32 <wob_jonas> dunno, I don't think it helps more than kilograms
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23:36:31 <wob_jonas> and of course the decimal system helps me make mental calculations, as opposed to the strange conversion ratios like {mile, yard, food, inch, 1/16 inch, 1/1000 inch}, {pound, ounce, grains}, {gallon, pint, fl ounce}, and the confusing multiple similarly named units (there are like four kinds of ounces still commonly in use)
23:37:43 <wob_jonas> Obviously it used to be even worse in the past, when they had a different measurement system in every region, but you can't blame people for that back when travel was difficult and technology less advanced.
23:38:09 <shachaf> yob_jonas
23:38:20 <shachaf> I think many units people use are backwards.
23:38:33 <shachaf> For example, speed should be measured in time/distance instead of distance/time
23:38:47 <shachaf> Bandwidth should be measured in time/bytes rather than bytes/time
23:40:08 <wob_jonas> It's not obvious which kind of "league" Jules Verne uses as measurement units in multiple of his books. Journey to the center of earth seems to use the 3898 meter long French league.
23:42:43 <wob_jonas> shachaf: bandwidth in information per time is reasonable imo because it's additive that way. the problem with bandwidth units is that people use too many units for information including bits, bytes, 512 byte blocks/sectors, kilobits, kilobytes, kibibits, kibibytes, megabits, megabytes, mebibytes, gigabits, gigabytes, gibibytes, terabytes.
23:43:01 <wob_jonas> And sometimes it's not clear whether someone means bits or bytes, and whether they mean decimal or binary.
23:43:22 <shachaf> If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X
23:43:45 <shachaf> You pay litres of petrol to get kilometres of distance, so you should use the unit litres/kilometre
23:44:19 <wob_jonas> It would make the abbreviations more clear if people started using octets instead of bytes even in English.
23:45:08 <wob_jonas> shachaf: as for fuel usage, that varies by country, some countries like Hungary use liters per hundred kilometer, some use kilometers per ten liter or something like that (I'm not sure about the exponent of 10 there), some use miles per gallons.
23:45:44 <shachaf> Never mind the constant factor. I meant l/100km
23:45:48 <wob_jonas> For prices, I've never seen the price in the divisor used for anything.
23:46:07 <shachaf> I considered saying "octet" above, but I said "byte" so that I'm ambiguous about the constant factor.
23:46:42 <shachaf> Hmm, interesting.
23:47:00 <shachaf> gallons per dollar?
23:47:10 <shachaf> No, you should use dollars per gallon.
23:47:17 <wob_jonas> sh: I'm fine with 8-bit only bytes, the problem is when on commercial labels "B" can stand for bits or bytes and you can't tell which. Some packagings even write "KG" for kilogram, which is terrible.
23:47:30 <fizzie> shachaf: Because you pay gallons to get dollars?
23:47:41 <shachaf> No, you pay dollars to get gallons.
23:47:47 <shachaf> So you should use $/gal
23:48:01 <fizzie> That's exactly opposite to the rule you said.
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23:48:14 <fizzie> "If you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit Y/X."
23:48:18 <shachaf> So it is.
23:48:31 <shachaf> And I spent such a long time thinking about it, too. Uselessly.
23:48:33 <wob_jonas> how much is a gallon anyway? /me looks it up
23:48:36 <shachaf> Let's see.
23:48:44 <fizzie> UK and US gallons are different, I think?
23:48:56 <fizzie> (Which makes "mpg" even worse.)
23:49:11 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, it's one of those multiple versions of units tied to "ounces"
23:49:21 <shachaf> wob_jonas: The convenient thing is that l/gal and NIS/USD are pretty close.
23:49:34 <shachaf> So you can compare .il and .us petrol prices directly, depending on the exchange rate.
23:49:38 <wob_jonas> huh? what's a NIS?
23:49:43 <shachaf> Israeli currency.
23:49:46 <wob_jonas> oh, Israeli shekel, right
23:49:54 <shachaf> OK, let's see.
23:50:19 <fizzie> I was trying to read up on this when renting a car and trying to guesstimate how often I'd need to fill it up. People just post unqualified "mpg" numbers.
23:50:29 <shachaf> gal/mile means you pay gallons to get miles
23:50:39 <shachaf> So if you pay X to get Y, you should be using the unit X/Y
23:50:48 <shachaf> Which is waht I originally wanted to write.
23:50:52 <oerjan> oh N is for new
23:50:59 <oerjan> (is it still new?)
23:51:13 <shachaf> Apparently I should say ILS instead of NIS
23:51:24 <shachaf> I never remember which one to use.
23:51:34 <shachaf> "also known as simply the Israeli shekel and formerly known as the New Israeli Sheqel (NIS),"
23:51:44 <shachaf> I guess it's not new anymore.
23:51:53 <shachaf> It's been in use since before I was born.
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23:53:33 <shachaf> Anyway.
23:53:46 <shachaf> You use $/gal because you pay $ to get gal
23:54:02 <shachaf> You use gal/mile because you pay gal to get mile
23:54:14 <shachaf> You can even multiply them together to figure out $/mile
23:54:22 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ILS is the ISO style international abbrev, similar to USD, CAD, GBP, EUR, HUF, etc. NIS is conventional domestic abbrev, similar to US$, CA$, £, €, Ft, which you use locally.
23:54:48 <shachaf> Is it?
23:55:25 <wob_jonas> when commerce gets international and people ordering stuff on Ebay in various foreign currencies, it's better to use the former
23:56:39 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the trick is that the three-letter currency codes usually start with the two-letter ISO country code (except EUR), which in turn usually agrees with top-level domain names (except .uk)
23:57:01 <shachaf> Why do you say NIS is conventional domestic abbrev?
23:57:21 <wob_jonas> they should have used DEE for the euro
23:59:02 <shachaf> It was only in the past couple of years that I realized why the symbol ₪ is used for NIS.
23:59:14 <wob_jonas> why is it used?
23:59:36 <oerjan> `unidecode ₪
23:59:37 <HackEgo> ​[U+20AA NEW SHEQEL SIGN]
23:59:45 <shachaf> It looks like the acronym ש"ח
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