00:11:11 -!- augur has joined. 00:22:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:23:57 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 00:33:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:00 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas-AFK. 01:01:41 -!- augur has joined. 01:13:37 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:20:29 `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:20:30 A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 01:20:51 `dowg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:20:59 5308:2015-04-11 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} 01:21:01 `howg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism 01:21:07 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} 01:21:09 who uses howg? 01:21:13 we should scrap it 01:21:33 `howg zygohistomorphic 01:21:42 ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} \ learn A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor. 01:21:42 it's mine, isn't it? 01:21:48 no 01:21:56 wow 01:37:12 Why would you howg instead of dowg? 01:57:18 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 01:59:32 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 02:00:06 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:17:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:36:34 I just learnt there is a irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#proglangdesign  channel 03:11:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Julfers * New user account 03:25:35 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52416&oldid=52402 * Julfers * (+148) 03:26:36 [wiki] [[User:Julfers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52417 * Julfers * (+31) Created page with "Josiah (Joe) Ulfers, programmer" 04:13:43 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DatBoi11841 * New user account 05:27:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:02:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:32:07 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:33:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:47:06 -!- tromp has joined. 07:05:04 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:07:20 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:23:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:46:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:52:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:53:06 -!- mroman has joined. 08:53:17 does visual basic have context-sensitive grammar? 08:53:31 as foo(bar) could either be a function call or an array access depending on what type foo is 08:54:23 Isn't the grammar for those the same though, just different semantics 08:55:15 Like I'd expect in both cases foo and bar are expressions, as is the result foo(bar) 08:55:38 so as far as parsing is concerned, it's one thing 08:57:00 Do you like the Mill? 08:57:39 but foo(bar, baz) would be illegal if foo is an array type 08:58:05 parsing might be the same though 08:58:14 but it's a semantic error 09:03:03 hm. yeah. 09:03:09 parsing rules are probably the same for both. 09:16:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:25:00 fungot you lil raskell 09:25:01 mroman: v. capacity calculated according to length :) skull, proportions :), in india, as i learn from admiral sir james sulivan) to be low, and would, i suspect that/ following circumstances. a minute crustaceous animal " cancer salinus) is said to be; and about mimosa sensitiva./ fnord is lost. very soon afterwards it decays. in/ preservation :) profitable modifications, each better and better, for educational purposes, than 09:30:05 ^style 09:30:05 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 09:30:14 ah 09:33:24 ^style europarl 09:33:24 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 09:33:36 fungot: Any opinions on G20? 09:33:37 mroman: mr president, a few days ago. mr davies has already said on a number of positive and negative. negative, firstly, countries should honour their pledges, namely make 0.7% of their gross national income. 09:33:58 fungot: And how does this relate to the violence? 09:33:59 mroman: mr president, before i give my explanation of vote against related to the system. then there was a great scandal in italy because a leak from the ministry for the fnord. finally, mr president, i received a specific question to the council and the president of finland, and i quote: ' whereby progressively only less favoured regions, one-fourth of community sheep production is undertaken in other areas loses its meaning. 09:34:55 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:35:49 ^style fisher 09:35:50 Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) 09:36:02 fungot: Who invented the telephone? 09:36:02 mroman: you know what a good network you know 09:36:11 fungot: I like good networks. 09:36:32 hm. 09:36:37 @messages 09:36:38 You don't have any messages 09:39:05 fungot: WHY DO YOU NEVER SEND ME ANY TEXTS?? 09:39:18 I SWIPED RIGHT ON YOU YOU KNOW. 11:20:24 [wiki] [[Ans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52418&oldid=32456 * Zseri * (+12) /* Interpreter */ dead link 11:33:17 -!- boily has joined. 12:23:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NEUTRAL CHICKEN). 13:47:13 -!- Remavas-AFK has changed nick to Remavas. 13:47:58 -!- deep-book-gk_ has joined. 13:49:41 -!- deep-book-gk_ has left. 14:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:12:44 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:27:53 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:33:44 -!- Cale has joined. 14:36:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:48:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:50:42 [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52419&oldid=51774 * Jafetish * (+280) 15:02:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:11:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:26:49 spämmi! 15:26:56 i think it's been a while since the last one. 15:27:12 (in finnish, that is.) 15:30:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:54:09 oerjan asks himself the same question every day. <-- . o O ( shachaf knows too much... ) 16:28:32 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:46:40 what am I doing here? 16:51:59 oerjan: do you know what action one takes in order to know too much hth 16:54:55 one asks too many questions. 16:58:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:05:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:07:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:12:15 oerjan: yes, that's what i was getting at 17:12:20 Maybe what you were getting at too. 17:24:18 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:42 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:25:47 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:26:14 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:28:17 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:28:42 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:31:47 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:32:13 -!- Remavas has joined. 18:01:41 @tell oerjan At least it wasn't mämmi. 18:01:41 Consider it noted. 18:23:19 -!- erkin has joined. 18:34:36 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 19:00:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:21:16 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:23:13 -!- MDude has joined. 19:25:39 (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, because I just got a rare Finnish s[pc]am as well, and it was.) 19:25:55 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/eCiFO7qV54E 20:05:47 `olist 1082 20:05:48 olist 1082: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas 20:24:41 fizzie: I only ever get spam about rayban sunglasses for incredibly low prices. 20:25:03 Or at least that is the only thing getting through to the gmail spam folder even 20:25:21 Are you vorpal@gmail.com? 20:25:59 nope 20:27:37 And I have not gotten any spam to my own email server. So I haven't even set up spam filtering there yet. Just some basic SPF verification thing 20:29:11 fizzie: I believe you run your own mail server, for the future and the inevitable day I get spam, what do you recommend for anti-spam? 20:30:40 I used to be involved in running mail servers. 20:30:52 Sort of. 20:31:07 shachaf: okay, any suggestions for that future? 20:31:17 I only know that SpamAssassin is a thing 20:31:36 We were using custom software. 20:31:51 ouch 20:32:22 Last SpamAssassin release was over 2 years ago hm 20:50:58 Vorpal: For spam, I use a postfwd configuration that checks two DNS blacklists (zen.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net). It's very rudimentary, but has been enough so far. 20:51:08 ah 20:51:09 There's a fair number of spam that goes through, but it's not been unmanageable. 20:51:57 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 20:52:53 I thought about doing greylisting, for whatever reason I hear that still is pretty effective. 20:54:41 fizzie: how does that work? 20:55:24 The tl;dr is that for any unknown sending mail server, your mail server returns a "temporarily unavailable, please retry" error code. 20:55:45 Apparently most of the botnets that spew out spam still don't do retries, while almost all real mail servers do. 20:56:20 It does add a little delay (from some minutes to hours, depending on sending mx behavior) to first new email from an unknown system. 20:56:47 Probably makes more sense for a system that receives an appreciable volume of email. 20:57:05 My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that. 20:57:23 ah 20:58:09 ah 20:58:12 oops 20:58:34 And the school where my father teaches does otherwise, because they greylist the periodic newsletters I send to family members. 20:59:43 So it's also kind of inherently biased against anyone using a "non-standard" email solution, since those will likely be classified as unknown. (The greylisting implementations expire the "known" status after some days/weeks.) 21:00:41 Yeah, it's happened to the most recent one I sent again. 21:00:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:01:48 "status=deferred (host [REDACTED] said: 451 4.7.1 <[REDACTED]>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisting in effect, please come back later (in reply to RCPT TO command))" 21:02:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:13:30 [wiki] [[Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52420&oldid=52293 * Manushand * (-4) /* Factorial */ 21:18:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:23 fizzie: looking at the logs I do get some connects from such hosts, but it seems they just disconnect without doing anything. Manually resolved a couple 21:29:11 fizzie: might be the SPF checking does it as well 21:29:59 There's a lot more connects in my Postfix logs than actual clients, I've never really bothered to investigate why they disconnect. 21:30:40 Some of them might be bruteforcing passwords, there's one case here with about 2k connect attempts over two hours or so. 21:31:33 hm maybe set up fail2ban on that? 21:31:48 Kind of tricky to find the right criteria for that I guess 21:32:07 I don't see anything about failed passwords in the postfix log at least 21:32:51 Guess they might be doing something else too. Like trying to spam without any "stop if failing" thing. 21:33:03 I use SASL, how does that work exactly? 21:33:13 smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot 21:33:13 smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth 21:33:32 Do postfix forward to it? Or do you login to dovecot first and that makes it work? 21:34:10 Postfix connects to that Dovecot socket to authenticate based on what comes in the SMTP connection, I believe. 21:34:14 (I have the same setup.) 21:34:19 Ah 21:35:44 was a while since I set it up, kind of confused now. What is an LMTP service and why do I use it? 21:36:26 LMTP is like SMTP except for local delivery, I think it's the recommended way to setup mail delivery into Dovecot. 21:36:59 Probably why I use it then 21:37:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:37:10 IIRC, the protocol's pretty much identical to SMTP, except maybe some minor variations and the fact that it normally runs over a Unix domain socket. 21:37:54 fizzie: hm that forwarding service you use, how does that work when forwarding mails from servers with SPF set up to a server that checks SPF? 21:38:06 s/use/run/ 21:42:10 They're opposed to SPF on ideological and practical grounds. And of course you can self decide where you forward to, and pick a friendly enough destination. I don't remember if they did anything else specifically. 21:42:51 fizzie: they? I got the impression you ran it. 21:43:07 No no, it's an organization. 21:43:20 "The Internet Users Forever IKI is a non-profit society which provides its members, private individuals in Finland, permanent iki.fi-addresses with e-mail and WWW forwarding." 21:43:51 okay, but you are involved in running it somehow or not? 21:44:19 I've been to their meetings back when I still lived in Finland (free cake), so I guess in a super-technical sense yes. But not in any practical way. 21:44:37 ah okay 21:45:01 My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that. <-- I misinterpreted the "my" there 21:45:16 Yeah, it was a little ambiguous. "My" as in "the one I use". 21:46:12 I don't think that many places are yet using SPF as a hard blocklist even with a -all policy on the source, it's just an extra signal to their filtering systems. I remember the IKI people's discussion places having some chatter about that and Gmail, but there's definitely people forwarding their iki.fi addresses to Gmail with success. 21:46:55 `? fizzie 21:46:56 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg 21:47:20 i'm voting fizzie for king in the next election 21:47:50 I guess unnamed former Gmail SREs might have better ideas about how it relates to SPF, but that's SO CONFIDENTIAL. 21:48:54 I did set up DKIM on my private mail server, in the hopes of it maybe giving a tiny positive nudge in spam scores of outgoing emails. 21:48:56 For what it's worth Delivery is a somewhat separate group from the rest of Gmail. 21:50:17 (One of my wife's relatives uses Hotmail/Outlook, and some of our messages went to their spam folder.) 21:53:03 -!- xkapastel has joined. 21:55:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:57:15 -!- erkin has joined. 22:26:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:41:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:55:02 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 22:55:12 another olist? 22:58:21 Yes, but this olist was already announced. 22:58:25 We need an olistlist. 22:58:52 I know, I noticed it in the logs 22:58:57 that's why I didn't `olist it again 22:59:06 I'm just surprised because it's fast now 23:01:58 Well, he published his PDF thing. 23:02:03 So it's back to full-time olisting. 23:19:06 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:32:45 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 23:33:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:36:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:37:38 Maybe what you were getting at too. <-- THAUSIBLE 23:37:57 @messages-flood 23:37:57 fizzie said 5h 36m 15s ago: At least it wasn't mämmi. 23:46:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).