< 1500077176 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500077693 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1500078011 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :update: I've now configured the server to use the sort of garish coloured prompts that people turn on because they care more about showing off what their terminal looks like than actually using it < 1500078020 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully I'm unlikely to forget I'm using it then < 1500078062 0 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're reading into people's intent a little more than is reasonable there. < 1500078070 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the purpose for this is to make sure you don't accidentally type something to that prompt instead of the prompt for some other server? < 1500078113 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: nah, it's to make sure that I don't type something on the server which I expect to be on my own laptop, which I'm connecting from < 1500078128 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1500078129 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1500078130 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to actually do damage that way (probably possible), but it can be very confusing < 1500078150 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because things I expect to be there just aren't (like ssh keys and programs) < 1500078170 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the easiest is to shut down. I actually set up custom aliases of the form "foohalt" and "fooreboot" that are like halt and reboot but only on the machine named foo < 1500078205 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, sort of. they're not exactly equivalent to /sbin/halt but almost the same) < 1500078210 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had trouble with that because it would take very bizarre circumstances to shut down my own laptop from a graphical terminal < 1500078224 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were an emergency, I'd be using the text terminal or REISUO; if it's a routine shutdown, I'd use the GUI < 1500078237 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1500078258 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1500078267 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500078302 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500078998 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500079657 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500082713 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500082713 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500082877 0 :wob_jonas!b03f184a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.74 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1500083468 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :is urbit a running gag now. < 1500083475 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it isn't it should be. < 1500083703 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500083757 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500084375 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500084901 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: TORSADED CHICKEN < 1500086418 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn torsaded < 1500086419 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "torsaded". < 1500087090 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg manager < 1500087097 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8208:2016-05-29 learn Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html < 1500087435 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes I think they are aligned in a different coordinate system; the constellations are defined for B1875 but the coordinates in those file are J2000. < 1500087821 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: bedtime < 1500087986 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Niter < 1500092131 0 :dos!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500092359 0 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1500092457 0 :dos!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500095402 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1500096333 0 :dos!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500096470 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500096516 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500096873 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1500097695 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500104071 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1500105765 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500105851 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500107978 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:903a:e5e6:2747:8090 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500109421 0 :sleffy!~sleffy@2602:306:c58e:4fd8:903a:e5e6:2747:8090 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500110228 0 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubng11-54f948-150.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500112500 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c2a:942e:9eed:21ef JOIN :#esoteric < 1500114238 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hi\n14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52428&oldid=52426 5* 03Destructible watermelon 5* (+1563) 10Undo revision 52426 by [[Special:Contributions/Xavo|Xavo]] ([[User talk:Xavo|talk]]) < 1500115252 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500118273 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrading debian from jessie to stretch I saw a line saying "deconfiguring udev (broken by systemd)". Scary. < 1500119200 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to the systemd persistent network interface names on this box, though "eno1" still looks a little weird. < 1500119302 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] < 1500119304 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... < 1500119337 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500119352 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$(0:).scanl(+)1 < 1500119354 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... < 1500119670 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have seen ens33 on some box for the first wired interface < 1500119677 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ubuntu 16.04 iirc < 1500119695 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been a VM < 1500119909 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will do "enoX" for on-board (== getting an interface index from firmware), "ensX" for pcie hotplug slots (and I think some virtualized things as well), "enpXsY" for PCI device by location, "enpXsYuZuWuQ..." for a chain of USB ports. < 1500119965 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian installed some stuff in /etc/systemd/network/ to disable the thing for my Xen guest, with some comments about there being some weirdness going on with virtual interfaces. < 1500120007 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course it was doubly moot since it also won't do anything if you still have matching /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules lines.) < 1500120137 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on "udevadm info /sys/class/net/eth0" output, I think my VPS's network interface would call itself "ens3" if it wasn't for that. < 1500120726 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm magic. < 1500120731 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much magic. < 1500120757 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have systemd and the interface is still called eth0. I'm not complaining, but why... < 1500120781 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be more unexpected the other way around. < 1500120799 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The names I mentioned were the systemd names, the kernel names are still the ethX they've long been. < 1500120884 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, down there: E: INTERFACE=eth0 ... fine < 1500120980 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( but why is this done by systemd rather than udev anyway ) < 1500121032 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( I mean they could just teach udev to use ID_NET_NAME_PATH for the interface name. It would probably be a simple rule. ) < 1500121060 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52429&oldid=52010 5* 03Primo 5* (+0) 10/* 100-149 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency < 1500121131 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52430&oldid=52429 5* 03Primo 5* (+0) 10/* 150-199 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency < 1500121265 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might've had an argument for that, though I forget what it was. < 1500121277 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52431&oldid=52430 5* 03Primo 5* (-229) 10/* 200-255 */ soft-wrapping is never necessary for 3-cells, other values updated for consistency < 1500121281 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be just that systemd/udev developers don't really like to think of them as separate things. < 1500121324 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1500121470 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The sad thing is that you're probably right. But I hate it.) < 1500121548 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ calls it "systemd/udev" a whole lot. < 1500121571 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With systemd 197 we have added native support for a number of different naming policies into systemd/udevd proper" "same on all distributions that adopted systemd/udev" and so on. < 1500121615 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because that's not udevd; they have their own < 1500121838 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not right either; my "systemd-less" VM is running /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd --daemon < 1500121902 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they merged them all into a single codebase. < 1500121925 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it appears they did do that < 1500121947 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they'll incrementally make it harder and harder to use udev without the rest of systemd. < 1500122602 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd is a cancer, it gets everywhere. I think that's the main reason I hate it. That and I have to relearn things with no (immediate) benefit to me. < 1500122664 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The core dump interception is perhaps the bit that has me bitten the hardest so far. It can be turned off, but first one has to figure out *why* the core dumps are no longer produced the way they used to be.) < 1500122727 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also no big fan of the system journal; I like perusing text files. < 1500122766 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is an irrational being at heart :P
< 1500122790 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of "something's happening, and I have no idea where it's configured" going on there. < 1500122877 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh right, builtin policies. I wanted to configure my laptop so that it wouldn't go to sleep when the lid is closed while it's in a docking station... I don't think I managed, but it's been a while since I really tried.) < 1500122903 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I *do* want it to sleep when the lid is closed while it's running on battery.) < 1500123277 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, UEFI is bugged after upgrade. No boot device found < 1500123288 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :booting from USB stick now to fix it < 1500123298 0 :sdhand!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko QUIT :Excess Flood < 1500123302 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, unlucky. < 1500123303 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun :-/ < 1500123307 0 :sdhand!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1500123317 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Worked fine for me." < 1500123330 0 :sdhand!?@? NICK :Guest28947 < 1500123363 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, I only get screen on the right monitor using this on this USB stick. Fuck nvidia maybe < 1500123380 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500123490 0 :Guest28947!~sam@2001:41c8:51:10d:: QUIT :Changing host < 1500123490 0 :Guest28947!~sam@unaffiliated/kyubiko JOIN :#esoteric < 1500123490 0 :Guest28947!?@? NICK :sdhand < 1500123546 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay unplugged that monitor, rebooted. Now I get an "incompatible input timing" message on my main monitor < 1500123547 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1500123585 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubng11-54f948-150.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1500123607 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( No boot device found, is that coming from the BIOS or later? I've had trouble telling the BIOS about a new configuration from Linux; had to search for it in the BIOS setup itself. But I don't fully understand this ... basically I'm just glad I got it to work. ) < 1500123626 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it is from the UEFI/BIOS < 1500123843 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm saying is that going through the BIOS' boot setup *may* be necessary to get things to work, because that has happened to me. This is anecdotal, not scientific. < 1500123916 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers: not an exact science. < 1500123940 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :since red hat sells training and consulting, it only makes sense for it to make systemd as complicated as possible < 1500123976 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the output from efibootmgr is borked. Didn't list any EFI based debian < 1500124000 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other day I briefly unplugged one monitor, and after plugging it back (until the next reboot), xscreensaver's screen-blanking only blanked about 90% of the screen, leaving about one fifth of the left monitor's left edge showing whatever was there before locking the screen. < 1500124001 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess what I'm saying is that going through the BIOS' boot setup *may* be necessary to get things to work, because that has happened to me. This is anecdotal, not scientific. <-- can't do it from there, have to do it from live USB < 1500124007 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case < 1500124049 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well this display works normally, but from the stripped down system rescue CD apparently. < 1500124055 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame nvidia < 1500124103 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks much better in efibootmgr now, hopefully the info is correct too < 1500124115 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, when switching to the GLVND variant of the non-free nvidia driver, I had to install both libgl1-glvnd-nvidia-glx and libgl1-nvidia-glvnd-glx, which are two different packages. < 1500124252 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my nvidia card is too new to be supported by non-free drivers (at least for 3D acceleration) last I looked < 1500124261 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err by the free I mean < 1500124277 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what is the glvnd thing? < 1500124309 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/NVIDIA/libglvnd -- they make two variants of their binary driver nowadays, with and without that. < 1500124321 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, ACP and LVM errors from super-early kernel/initramfs < 1500124347 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh neat < 1500124398 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what it's good for, but an "nvidia-vulkan-common" upgrade (on Debian testing) was listed as conflicting with the non-GLVND variant. < 1500124566 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1500124643 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, the new version of debian auto-mounted a data disk with NTFS as rw under /media// < 1500124656 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the system (C:) partition though < 1500124707 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use "udisksctl mount -b /dev/..." to mount removable media, and can never tell how it decides between /media/usb0 and /media//. < 1500124724 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always seem to auto-mount for me < 1500124736 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why did it mount ntfs (using some fuse driver) as rw < 1500124738 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that concerns me < 1500124745 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want it doing that. I don't trust it < 1500124779 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so mint menu no longer works in new debian < 1500124779 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1500125017 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the chromium failed to update, some dependency mess < 1500125506 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 the x := (j + x)/(k + x) device in trajedy should also work in conedy < 1500125506 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1500125679 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 my guess is that the x := (x + j)/k device is not enough to be universal, but using both might be < 1500125679 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1500127140 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500127240 0 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500127469 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to see if cinnamon is okay < 1500127490 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find the right version of mintmenu to make it work with the mate version on debian < 1500127980 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500128343 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1500128506 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no mirrors, hmm < 1500128582 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, there are no mirrors in Conedy, in contrast to Trajedy.) < 1500128787 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otoh, a ray may pass through a beacon, so perhaps that's not so bad. < 1500129185 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had thought of changing to orthogonal mirrors to remove the tunnelling artifact, but conedy's design is better < 1500129933 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500130163 0 :Rem|Sleep!?@? NICK :Remavas < 1500130341 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the state is effectively reduced from 2 to 1 rational number, which may explain why Conedy looks very much Turing incomplete to me, though that will be impossible to prove. ;-) < 1500130446 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state is one rational number in both languages < 1500130463 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cinnamon seems okay. don't like the semi-transparent menu and taskbar popups. Apparently that is tied to the theme though, so I'd have to switch to another theme, which may be worse in some other way < 1500130467 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make a custom theme < 1500130497 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: no, in Trajedy, if the ray originates from a mirror, you have a direction *and* an offset on the mirror < 1500130512 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: which is very much exploited in the tube device. < 1500130548 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:c2a:942e:9eed:21ef QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500130561 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: in Conedy, every ray passes through some beacon, so only the direction is left (all this is claiming some additional finite amount of state which I think of as flow control) < 1500130651 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :claiming? not sure what I wanted to use there... "ignoring" fits < 1500130854 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrors can rearrange the state into two parameters, but that's not really new state < 1500130896 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to make this idea a bit more formal: If I wanted to translate a Trajedy program into a programming language that has variables that are rational numbers, manipulated by rational Möbius transformations, and conditional jumps based on comparison with a rational constant, then I'd need two variables. With Conedy, one variable is enough. < 1500130925 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: CATHODE CHICKEN < 1500130958 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, fractran has half a rational number as state so that doesn't, by itself, disprove anything < 1500130978 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: note the restriction on the conditional, it's very important < 1500131028 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, there is such a thing as a Möbius transformation < 1500131300 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need addition as well for the reduction from Trajedy (u += v), otherwise the mirror-mirror transition cannot be encoded. < 1500131631 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Knowing about Möbius transformations (in particular the fact that they form a group) gave me the confidence to attempt building the x -> (1-x)/(1+x) transition that is fundamental for the corrected zig-zag test. < 1500131935 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can also think of them as perspective transformations in a single dimension; both views can be helpful) < 1500132478 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500132988 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: interesting, but why did you highlight me about it? < 1500133419 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500133450 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1500134329 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no particular reason, I have a strong tendency to pick the wrong name from the recent history to reply to < 1500134967 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500135549 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1500136010 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Comefrom0x1014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52432&oldid=52424 5* 03Julfers 5* (+84) 10 < 1500136233 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500136689 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1500136904 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there doesn't seem to be support for nft in stretch, unlike what you suggested? < 1500136930 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm, the "install this package to get the command thing" may be broken < 1500137379 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be there as 'nftables'. < 1500137740 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( not fucking terrible?! ) < 1500137792 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nft < 1500137794 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nft? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1500137803 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it came up yesterday; I still remember) < 1500138130 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :pft < 1500139141 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1500139151 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Christopher 5* 10New user account < 1500139428 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1500140338 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.9 < 1500140541 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500140863 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1500141251 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500142357 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fd5f:8bd3:c82b:5d25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500142395 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1500142878 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, the gnome package depends on the apache2-bin package < 1500143333 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had some HP printer drivers (on Windows) that bundled Apache Tomcat in them. < 1500143345 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the printer control dialog was actually a JSP thing. < 1500143455 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's things like those that make me wish I'd learned carpentry < 1500143508 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's something equivalent to complain about in carpentry. < 1500143513 0 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :the apache foundation probably has something for your cnc router, too < 1500143577 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ikea furniture? :P < 1500143603 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:fd5f:8bd3:c82b:5d25 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500143638 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500143872 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500145445 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500145708 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1500146791 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1500147074 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500147083 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500147106 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500147274 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1500147377 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if GCC can detect type mismatch in printf format strings even if the format argument is using a ?: operator? < 1500147533 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was real confident it wouldn't, but apparently it just might. < 1500147545 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38 ,cc int main(int argc, char **argv) { printf(argc ? "%d" : "%05d", 12.3); } < 1500147548 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:38 fizzie: [warning: format '%d' expects argument of type 'int', but argument 2 has type 'double' [-Wformat=] < 1500147735 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :?: has a consistent type < 1500147736 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1500147744 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have different types on both sides, so it's easy enouhg < 1500147764 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500147776 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the question was about checking the *other* parameters against the format specifiers. < 1500147788 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1500147796 0 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1500148065 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the format string provided as foo ? "format 1" : "format 2". < 1500148080 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :?: has a consistent type < 1500148081 0 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1500148082 0 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ohh < 1500148092 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the example I tried. < 1500148127 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can't have different types on both sides, so it's easy enouhg <-- that annoyed me in C++, where I wanted to use it to select different overloads. < 1500148167 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the exact situation, but it cropped up a couple of times < 1500148199 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or doing stuff like something ? boost::none : value, needing extra casts to boost::optional in both cases < 1500148552 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Random question -- do you happen to know what I could use if I had a program that supported a gamepad in general, but had hardcoded keyboard shortcuts for some actions, and I wanted to bind an (unused) gamepad button to one of those keys. < 1500148558 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, it is about checking other parameters against format specifiers, and the example you gave is like how I mean. < 1500148558 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a couple of things for generally binding gamepad to keyboard/mouse keys, but I don't know if using those would allow the program's native gamepad support to still work. < 1500148563 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Guess I could bind *everything* to keys, and configure the program to just use a keyboard.) < 1500148810 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can work although my idea would have been that the program might be implemented to use one layer to translate input into MIDI (and you can replace this layer then if needed), and the other layer interprets the MIDI messages that are received in this way. < 1500148882 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can then, in future, to easily support gamepads that can detect how hard you pushed the buttons, if needed, without needing to replace everything.) < 1500149429 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Windows or Linux? < 1500149496 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a good one of those for linux? I would be interested in that < 1500149504 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, if windows, 1) native xinput pad (e.g. xbox pad) or dualshock 4? 2) is the program using xinput or directx input? < 1500149531 0 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice if there were a cross-platform scriptable way of doing it < 1500149560 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why midi? Sounds needlessly complicated < 1500149589 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1500149627 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway for the dualshock 4 case I believe there is a windows app for it, ds4windows that I think can do that. Don't have one of those though. < 1500149666 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on android the sixaxis controller root-requring program can do that as well (at least with PS3 controllers) < 1500149707 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for the linux case I assume it isn't complicated. I have been wondering about the xinput case myself a couple of times < 1500149718 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :xinput on windows that is < 1500149743 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also like to be able to remap buttons and such on the controller < 1500149769 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that I can actually do on windows, but only stuff like a to b and such, which is not as useful < 1500149800 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You do not actually need to use the protocol, although the format of the messages will help at least. < 1500149819 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an xbox one elite controller, the windows store app for that lets you set up profiles, but nothing like mapping to keyboard < 1500149927 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Windows, there is a program GlovePIE (with a license that prohibits using in some countries, using it to cheat at multiplayer games (although it is OK to use it to cheat at singleplayer games), and earning money using it for baseball simulation). < 1500149968 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a really really strange license < 1500149978 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is strange < 1500150837 0 :jaboja64!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500151178 0 :dos!~dosgmowdo@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1500151216 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Linux, DS3. < 1500151290 0 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can only imagine there exists some program for it on Linux, but I don't know off hand what it would be < 1500151505 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a few -- https://github.com/Ryochan7/antimicro seems pretty popular though not packaged in Debian, or xboxdrv which is in the repo. (The latter was originally just a very configurable userspace driver for Xbox pads, but can also read from a /dev/input/eventX so it can do the keymapping stuff for any device.) < 1500151537 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should probably just try out if they'd play well with the program. < 1500152236 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500152271 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500152342 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500152738 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should the esolang wiki article about MIX (Knuth) maybe should mention in the instruction listing, which ones are extensions and which one are standards? (I don't know which one they are, but I have added the character codes) < 1500152973 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc5a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1500153071 0 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500153233 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500153829 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1500154543 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500154763 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500154918 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When writing bindings for other program languages such as SQL and JavaScript, usually the call to create a function can use a user-defined pointer value for whatever purpose you need; I find I usually do not need it but the times I have used it, it is almost always a function pointer. Is that how you do too? < 1500154940 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1500156183 0 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1500156529 0 :augur!~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500156809 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500157628 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1500157644 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Yes I think they are aligned in a different coordinate system; the constellations are defined for B1875 but the coordinates in those file are J2000." ok < 1500157832 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The other day I briefly unplugged one monitor, and after plugging it back (until the next reboot), xscreensaver's screen-blanking only blanked about 90% of the screen, leaving about one fifth of the left monitor's left edge showing whatever was there before locking the screen." lol, that's an amusing bug < 1500157913 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500158006 0 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1500158060 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Do you know if GCC can detect type mismatch in printf format strings even if the format argument is using a ?: operator?" => no idea, you might want to TIAS (possibly both with and without optimizations) and/or ask on #gcc < 1500158132 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Vorpal: Random question -- do you happen to know what I could use if I had a program that supported a gamepad in general, but had hardcoded keyboard shortcuts for some actions, and I wanted to bind an (unused) gamepad button to one of those keys." => I think there are programs that bind gamepad buttons to keyboard keys < 1500158148 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I've found a couple of things for generally binding gamepad to keyboard/mouse keys, but I don't know if using those would allow the program's native gamepad support to still work." ah < 1500158149 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yeah, I ended up using this "antimicro" one. < 1500158167 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it work well? < 1500158184 0 :fizzie!?@? PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just fine. I guess it's okay to have multiple readers on an input device. < 1500158195 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the info < 1500158377 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Should the esolang wiki article about MIX (Knuth) maybe should mention in the instruction listing, which ones are extensions and which one are standards? (I don't know which one they are, but I have added the character codes)" => perhaps. though sometimes it's not clear what even counts as standard and extension, since the binary and float < 1500158377 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing point extensions are explained in the main text, not in exercises. < 1500158428 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, about MIX, question, where does TAOCP say that the IN/OUT instructions for disk drive use the rX register for the sector number? is that in chapter 1 somewhere, or only later in chapter 4 or something? < 1500158493 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but basically the instructions I mention in the main text plus the system instructions HLT, JRED, JBUS, IOC, IN, OUT are the standard ones. < 1500158620 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even then I guess a cheap machine might not implement IOC if it doesn't have any I/O devices that support it, and might have stub implementations for JBUS/JRED if its I/O devices are always synchronous. < 1500158909 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would definitely make sense is to define the JBUS, JRED, IN, OUT, IOC, HLT instructions for the cheaper I/O devices in the text, so that the text becomes enough reference for implementing a simple MIX machine. < 1500158971 0 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, what a bug. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=849342 <-- xserver-xorg-legacy break xrdp (on Debian stretch) < 1500159254 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that character code doesn't seem right < 1500159311 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Hungarian translation (which is based on the older editions), the greek characters in the code are Delta, Sigma and Pi. I cant' check in the new English originals, because the greek letters are messed up in the PDF e-book. < 1500159444 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:MIX (Knuth)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52433 5* 03B jonas 5* (+260) 10Created page with "The character code doesn't seem right. In the Hungarian translation (which is based on the older editions), the three greek letters are Delta, Sigma and Pi. I cant' check in..." < 1500159468 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: could you check the character code? < 1500159933 0 :S1!~s1feha@ip4d16fc5a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1500160364 0 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1500160514 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re sector number for disk I/O is rX: it's defined right there in 1.3 where it should be, above the definition of the I/O instructions. < 1500160521 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just blind and didn't see it. < 1500160657 0 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1500160844 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I have a book from library, which is Art of Computer Programming vol. 3, and the page in the back gives Theta, Phi, Pi. That is where I got them < 1500160877 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what edition of TAOCP vol 3? first or second? < 1500160923 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot tell < 1500161004 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it say somewhere near the beginning? < 1500161067 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked and it does not seem to say < 1500161145 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1500161145 0 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zcuuqhvhyr8nha.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1500161190 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's one stupid change in the Hungarian translation: they changed the letters used for the assembly syntax of local labels. So it's not impossible that they changed the greek letters too. < 1500161195 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it can be mentioned that some versions are using different Greek alphabets < 1500161244 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally I'd like to know what the latest paper version in the original English says. Maybe someone here will volunteer that info. < 1500161263 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eventually it's not really important. < 1500161264 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if someone can figure out, it can help. < 1500161273 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't change anything really. < 1500161317 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's totally in character for a 70s computer for the teletype to use slightly different character codes in different countries. < 1500161406 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-48.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1500161425 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I should try to figure out what font encoding or simliar problem is why the greek letters are messed up in the e-book, maybe I could reverse engineer the greek letters from that. < 1500161430 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look at that later. < 1500161530 0 :DHeadshot!~DHeadshot@cpc88301-woki8-2-0-cust688.6-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1500161850 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52434&oldid=52427 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1427) 10 < 1500162018 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MIX (Knuth)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52435&oldid=52434 5* 03B jonas 5* (+196) 10 < 1500162139 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what's messed up is that in the vanilla computer modern fonts, cmtt doesn't have the double acute accent, and has some other character there instead, so in some LaTeX fonts they added the double acute accent to some other code where the greek letters used to be. < 1500162164 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1500162173 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure where I can easily look up the character encoding for those LaTeX fonts. < 1500162203 0 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1500162318 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1500162391 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The characters that show up in the TAOCP pdf are: 10 acute accent, 20 ring accent, 21 double acute accent. < 1500162580 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the original computer modern encoding, in cmr, acute is on 0x13, ring is on 0x17, double acute is on 0x7D; in cmtt, acute and ring are still in the same place, and double acute isn't present. < 1500162898 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those codes are less relevants. In the original encoding, the greek characters in cmtt are at: 0x01 Delta, 0x02 Theta, 0x03 Lambda, 0x05 Pi, 0x08 Phi. < 1500163122 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed in the LaTeX 8t encoding, the accents are at: 0x01 grave, 0x01 acute, 0x02 circumflex, 0x03 tilde, 0x04 diaresis, 0x05 double acute, 0x06 ring (wtf), 0x08 brevis. < 1500163188 0 :wob_jonas!b03f1a92@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.26.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make the three greek letters in the MIX character code: 10 Delta, 20 Sigma, 21 Pi.