00:14:47 -!- mertyildiran has joined. 00:16:59 Hi, what are the best examples of self-replicating computer program generation system that developed using an esoteric programming language? 00:18:30 by best, I mean the ones with most successful results (generated most complex programs) 00:19:54 *specifically using Turing tarpit languages 00:29:55 redcode. 00:30:29 -!- Mr2001 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:35:30 imode: Redcode? 00:37:10 redcode, the programming language for CoreWar. 00:37:59 the entire idea is "battling programs", and thus, replication. 00:39:27 "thus"? battling programs don't necessarily have to involve replication 00:39:40 you can have one program battling one 00:39:52 don't try to set it up like that's a clear consequence 00:40:25 Mr Smith replicated, but normal agents don't do that 00:42:07 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:52:40 imode: for Redcode it says not even Turing Complete. 00:53:10 imode: I'm looking for the state-of-art. 00:53:43 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:54:56 also what is the self-replication example in the lowest leve possible? in Assembly for example. 00:55:14 *lowest level 00:56:11 I'm asking that because I couldn't find any example beyond a toy (printing to console and not doing any real life tasks) 00:57:00 "the state of the art". 00:58:17 maybe a self-replicating system targeting x86 assembly language for example, can be useful 00:58:27 why self replication, exactly. 00:58:42 go play with von neumann CAs in golly. 00:58:55 also, redcode is turing complete. 01:01:15 you seem to have something in mind, perhaps consider sharing with us. 01:02:08 imode: "state-of-the-art" is also valid (the was missing though :D). https://esolangs.org/wiki/Redcode says it's (almost) Turing Complete. 01:02:25 yes, in the same way that every modern computer is (almost) a turing machine. 01:02:39 we live in finite memory spaces. turing machines require infinite memory. 01:03:18 regardless of that, I'm wondering why you're seeking self-replication. there was some work on.. god what was it.. robust-first computing. 01:03:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hwO8Q_TyCA&list=PLm5k2NUmpIP-4ekppm6JoAqZ1BLXZOztE here's an entire playlist of talks and presentations on it. 01:04:09 if that doesn't satiate you, you might have some other idea in mind. 01:08:02 imode: I was just wondering around about self-replication in computers and biology for a while. I found DNA codon table (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_codon_table) and languages like Brainfuck or DNA# (https://esolangs.org/wiki/DNA-Sharp) are very similar yet far away from being useful. 01:08:52 yup. and that's mainly because we don't really have use for things that have the ability to replicate. 01:09:38 "robust-first computing" is kind of like what you're searching for. multiple agents with biological feedback systems working towards a real goal, like sorting an array. 01:10:04 imode: because the encapsulation has been made by manual coding from CPU architecture to your desktop environment is making Turing tarpit languages useless. 01:10:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:38 not really. it's more "why would I want to write a program that replicates itself or has the capability to replicate if it doesn't contribute to the end goal of my project." 01:10:58 if your goal is to write worms, then sure. if your goal is to do some creative stuff with distributed systems, then sure. 01:12:18 don't get me wrong. case studies in evolution applied to programs produce interesting results, but it's not generally useful. 01:13:10 same goes with self-replicating programs. 01:13:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:13:27 imode: the thing that it's not possible to mimic biologic replication in a high level computer code. This was the thing I was trying to say. 01:13:40 well, you say that but it's definitely possible. 01:14:01 "mimic biologic replication", you mean replication with mutation? that's entirely the point of.. well, genetic algorithms. 01:14:08 when applied to programs, of course. 01:15:10 there was even a simulator that provided a circular string of DNA embedded with operations on a stack machine, and some of those were operations that did replication/modification of the original string. 01:15:17 I'll see if I can find it. 01:15:17 imode: I know what genetic algorithms are. 01:16:06 imode: you know the amino acids are the most basic building blocks of a protein. 01:16:19 yes, I'm very well aware of that. 01:16:43 as should anybody who's taken a biology course in highschool. 01:19:24 imode: and what a protein is doing a cell? It's a procedure(function) in a cell. Every protein does certain tasks and there are protein complexes that you can imagine as a procedure made of from multiple functions. 01:19:51 imode: everything is possible with 20 amino acids in total. 01:20:09 ...yes, it's a useful abstraction, sure. though I don't really see your point. 01:21:51 imode: now imagine a microprocessor architecture with 20 instructions in its assembly language. 01:22:12 imode: that's the same thing in theory right? 01:23:34 no. useful abstraction, but it doesn't cut it. 01:24:31 imode: what I'm trying to say is it's more of a hardware and encapsulation problem than an algorithmic problem. Encapsulation creating a barrier. 01:24:55 imode: what do you mean with does not cut it? 01:24:57 barrier to what? nothing stops us from mimicing mutation and replication on a fixed alphabet which stands for instructions. 01:25:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:25:10 again, it's what genetic algorithms were invented to do. 01:25:36 and it doesn't cut it because cellular mechanics are far more complicated than "proteins are just function calls". proteins don't do anything. 01:25:47 imode: barrier in front to the advancement of this field (self-replicating programs). 01:25:49 not by themselves, anyway. 01:26:13 uh.. no. there's nothing stopping you from simulating a bonafide genome. people do it all the time. plenty of resources on genetic algorithms around. 01:27:03 go research protein folding. that will show you where exactly your analogy breaks down. 01:28:07 sorry to say but the idea isn't useful generally. you're not going to suddenly apply a genetic algorithm to x86 machine code and out pops a cyborg. :P 01:28:20 now, you can apply GAs to useful optimization problems. 01:32:47 Simulating and mimicking are different concepts. With DNA simulation you create better DNA (the target is biology) but with DNA mimicking you create better program (the target is computers). 01:33:04 ..simulating and mimicking are the same thing. 01:33:23 Current self-replication technologies are unable to surpass manual coding. 01:33:48 -!- Antoxyde_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:34:05 But biologic self-replication is able to surpass manual coding of DNA. 01:35:13 Bacteria create better bacteria before your computational biology techniques, so nature surpass. 01:36:16 Not useful = Will not be invested 01:37:12 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:39:07 imode: also you said proteins are function calls not functions itself. So where the program is stored for those functions? If you are talking about mitochondria there is mitochondria DNA :) 01:39:17 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:39:30 *mitochondrial DNA 01:40:56 so your original question wasn't really a question. you just had an idea in mind and wanted to expound on it. 01:41:47 imode: no I'm just investigating the frontier. 01:42:05 yeah. sure. 01:42:15 have fun with uh.. whatever your intent is. 01:43:21 imode: I'm ultimately looking for the self-replication in the lowest level possible (and its usefulness). 01:48:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:37 -!- boily has joined. 02:02:08 -!- aaronduino has joined. 02:06:42 I'm arguing with someone about language. He wants an example of where A is true B is true and A "and" B is false 02:08:45 uh.. as in, "A&B" behaves like "!(A&B)"? 02:09:57 “if (A) { if (B) { /* something */ } }” is isomorphic to “if (A && B) { /* something */ }”. 02:10:10 Isomorphic? 02:10:10 you *could* express something like you said, but it wouldn't be logically sound. 02:10:22 well. some word to that effect. 02:10:37 up to isomorphism, I guess >_>'... 02:13:41 What isomorphism? 02:16:42 * boily hmms. 02:17:54 If I have a file with QuickTime movies in it, and I try to pull out one movie, and it's just sound and half the sound is coherent and half is static, where did I screw up? 02:17:55 is it always the case that “if (A) { /* asdf */ } if (B) { /* asdf */ }” is the same as “if (A && B) { /* asdf asdf */ }”? 02:18:05 Like, how do I not get either pure static or the coherent thing I'm looking for? 02:18:09 But... half? 02:18:24 -!- aaronduino has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:22:39 Holy crap I got something to work 02:24:41 gotta love that moment. 02:29:40 Not sure how to expand on this 02:29:53 I replaced everything before the first mdat with a huge skip atom 02:32:18 -!- aaronduino has joined. 02:32:23 Well, I now know how to point this 300MB file to various things within it 02:32:40 I suppose I could do some sort of "change file + run conversion tool" thing 02:32:56 Hello 02:33:00 Hi aaronduino 02:33:29 I just added a language to the wiki (AsciiDots)? Anything else I should do? 02:33:39 (categorical stuff, etc) 02:34:25 -!- mertyildiran has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:37:45 Sgeo, do you go on ppcg? 02:38:26 no 02:38:30 k 02:39:39 Have a favorite esolang? 02:45:46 -!- aaronduino has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:56:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ZEITGEIST CHICKEN). 03:06:20 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: See ya! o/). 03:11:09 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:28 -!- atslash has joined. 03:18:22 -!- rodgort` has joined. 03:18:54 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:18:55 -!- atslash has joined. 03:18:56 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:18:56 -!- sdhand has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:18:56 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:23:44 -!- sdhand has joined. 03:24:07 -!- sdhand has changed nick to Guest86463. 03:28:15 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:28:16 -!- newsham has joined. 05:05:55 -!- Guest86463 has changed nick to sdhand. 05:06:13 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 05:06:13 -!- sdhand has joined. 06:23:33 -!- erkin has joined. 06:29:25 -!- zseri has joined. 06:40:54 -!- zseri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:46:01 what's this, it's warmer in Göteburg than in Innsbruck :P 06:46:11 @metar esgg 06:46:12 ESGG 110520Z 19006KT 9999 VCFG SCT011 13/12 Q1016 06:46:13 @metar lowi 06:46:14 LOWI 110520Z VRB01KT 9999 -SHRA FEW005 SCT016 FEW050CB BKN055 12/11 Q1016 TEMPO SHRA 07:27:01 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Oh noes I ded). 08:42:54 who else is up at this ungodly hour. 08:50:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:59:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:22:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:47:13 -!- sleffy has joined. 09:55:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:28:42 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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Got SIGABRT, dying...). 16:11:58 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:29:37 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:34:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:42:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:46:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:49:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:04:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:20:09 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 17:20:24 Now I have posted a corrected version of MIXPC, and now there is also some new features, and includes an assembler. 17:20:30 (The assembler is a separate program) 17:22:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:25:07 [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52696&oldid=52648 * Zzo38 * (+206) 17:37:08 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:44:59 -!- augur has joined. 17:46:01 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:49:02 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:55:50 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to MrRobato. 17:56:07 -!- MrRobato has changed nick to MrRoboto. 18:00:15 -!- imode has joined. 18:01:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:06:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:12:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:19:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:22:11 -!- augur has joined. 18:26:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:44:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:48:29 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:48:42 Also is including one example program which is the guess number game. It uses the random number extension and music extension of MIXPC. 18:50:58 -!- augur has joined. 19:10:27 -!- imode has joined. 19:17:13 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:20:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:23:09 -!- rodgort` has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:23:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:31:25 -!- rodgort has joined. 19:41:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:46:19 -!- zseri has joined. 20:10:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:17:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:26:14 * oerjan has an obvious guess who vanamonde is thinking of in today's girl genius. 20:30:57 There's a character called that in an Arthur C. Clarke novel, The City and the Stars. 20:31:05 (I haven't read the comic in years now.) 20:31:36 yeah the foglios tend to shout out a bit... 20:32:11 also, *gasp* 20:32:29 `5 w 20:32:34 1/2:monads//Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. \ wat//ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው። \ programmer's googol//A programmer's googol is equal to 10^100, or 110 \ help//Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help inste 20:32:36 `n 20:32:36 2/2:ad. \ lystrosaur//The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. 20:32:42 oerjan, I tend to miss the obvious, what's your guess? 20:33:09 a certain gentleman adventurer. 20:33:20 Oh no! 20:33:25 indeed 20:33:36 Oh no! 20:34:40 he does fit perfectly, also he's in half the other side stories... 20:34:51 Does a gold penny have the same mass as a silver penny? 20:35:23 zzo38: i suspect that both may have varied over time. 20:36:54 hm wait 20:37:12 aren't they too small to be gold or silver? but that may have varied too... 20:38:26 "The gold penny was a medieval English coin with a value of twenty pence." 20:39:13 Bob has 140 pounds worth of money. I am assuming the mass is the same, so that if it is all gold coins then it will weigh 7 pounds. 20:39:47 "Until the reign of King Henry III of England (1216–1272), any need in England for coins worth more than one penny, at the time a silver coin, was met by the use of Byzantine or Arabic gold and silver coins which circulated among merchants and traders." 20:48:21 OK, but still do you know? This is in a GURPS game I play in, the GM said one NPC has 140 pounds worth of money, but apparently in gold (or maybe I misunderstood him), so I assume that the total weight of the money is 7 pounds, and can notify him about it, but for simplicity we could assume the coins have the same weight anyways, even if it isn't historically accurate (if GM agrees), but still I am curious to know if it actually is or not. 20:50:52 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:55:26 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:55:35 i've always assumed gold to be more worth than silver per weight. 20:56:11 but maybe it's just denser... 20:56:35 i don't really know, anyway. 20:57:16 also, _reliably_ minted money can be more worth than its base material. 20:58:14 This website prices gold at $41.59/g and silver at $0.55/g 20:58:19 p. close 20:58:24 -!- zseri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:58:37 p. not at all... 20:58:53 did you miss a digit 20:59:04 No, it's two orders of magnitude difference. 20:59:17 ah 20:59:41 who knows if that was the case in medieval times, though... 20:59:48 Does it have a price for mithril? 21:00:05 (Also which marriage anniversary year is that?) 21:00:32 eleventy, obviously. 21:01:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:02:02 hm or should it be eleventy-one 21:03:37 -!- zseri has joined. 21:04:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:04:53 copumpkin: Do you like Matt Levine? 21:12:43 -!- Xav_ has joined. 21:13:09 Hello 21:17:39 -!- Xav_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:39:02 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:39:26 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest90542. 21:40:46 -!- rdococ has left ("I just realized I don't talk here. I wonder why."). 21:41:01 -!- Guest90542 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 21:41:12 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 21:41:12 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:43:14 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:44:54 " also what is the self-replication example in the lowest possible? in Assembly for example." => an example is probably those very short viruses for early DOS systems that stayed in memory and copied themselves into the disk file of any com or exe program you ran 21:46:34 well, there's the degenerate case, but that's boring 21:47:14 -!- LKoen has joined. 21:51:28 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:52:01 `? monad 21:52:02 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 21:52:07 `? monads 21:52:08 Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. 21:56:07 " i've always assumed gold to be more worth than silver per weight." => definitely worth much more than silver. 21:56:43 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:01:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:02:01 gold is also more amazing and rarer on Earth than silver 22:03:15 who else is up at this ungodly hour. <-- not me hth 22:04:05 @time oerjan 22:04:06 Local time for oerjan is Fri Aug 11 23:04:05 2017 22:04:26 shachaf: not the same hour hth 22:04:28 [wiki] [[Talk:Esoteric Operating System]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52697&oldid=45237 * Xav737 * (+1472) Add a suggestion for a file structure 22:04:39 oerjan: are you saying this hour is godly? 22:04:47 certainly not. 22:06:36 apparently few others were, as now i've finished the logs. 22:06:56 oerjan hungers for logs 22:08:27 What rolls down stairs / Alone or in pairs, / And over your neighbor's dog? 22:08:39 oerjan, how is your neighbour's dog 22:08:42 " No, it's two orders of magnitude difference." => wait, really? I thought the difference was somewhat less than that. wow. 22:08:58 wob_jonas: Going by the prices I quoted above. 22:09:06 yeah, I understadn 22:10:02 and gold is still cheaper than any of its cousins (iridium, platium, osmium, rhenium, tungsten) right? 22:10:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:10:10 Taneb: i'm not sure they currently have one, so i guess it's silent if it exists. 22:10:41 actually there have been a couple bad days. 22:11:46 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:12:23 An intermittent dog 22:12:30 `cat bin/dog 22:12:31 cat: bin/dog: No such file or directory 22:12:33 wait tungsten is a precious metal? 22:12:34 Huh. 22:13:21 oerjan: "precious metal" is defined differently by any two people. I consider it precious because it has the highest melting point among all metals, higher than even rhenium 22:13:25 [wiki] [[AsciiDots]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52698&oldid=52693 * IanO * (+142) /* External Resources */ 22:14:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:15:58 I consider all metals precious, except zinc. 22:16:38 shachaf: huh? don't you mean all metals except iron and maybe cobalt? because that would be sort of a sensible definition 22:16:49 No, iron is precious. 22:16:59 there's way more iron on Earth than ANYTHING ELSE, by mass 22:17:01 I don't think that was meant to be a sensible definition 22:17:13 Who said anything about the Earth? 22:17:21 so every other metal is rare compared to iron 22:17:32 aluminum is extremely precious, just ask louis napoleon 22:17:34 Isn't there more aluminium than iron? 22:17:55 he did say by mass. 22:18:11 By mass. 22:18:51 shachaf: the earth is basically a big ball of iron, with some dirt layer on the surface. the surface may have more aluminum atoms (not in atomic form) than iron, but if you go deeper (which we can't really do because the pressure kills us) it's all iron (and maybe some cobalt) 22:18:55 well, how about all the metallic hydrogen (theoretically) in jupiter? 22:19:11 `? precious 22:19:12 precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:19:20 Oh, this page is about the crust. 22:19:25 hm already has a ring pun 22:19:39 shachaf: and there's almost no metalic aluminum in the ground, practically all of it is refined by men 22:19:56 which is not surprising because it's that sort of junk semimetal, it doesn't like remaining in metalic form much 22:20:01 Which men? 22:20:08 mankind in general 22:20:25 and mostly in the last few hundred years 22:20:37 before that people didn't know a cheap way to refine it 22:21:34 Tungsten is also not a precious metal. 22:21:43 which is a shame because it could have been tg 22:21:57 huh? 22:22:34 shachaf: i'm afraid stephen got to select its abbreviation hth 22:22:54 `? tungsten 22:22:55 tungsten? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:22:59 `? wolfram 22:23:00 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 22:23:28 what does tungsten have to do with cellular automata? 22:23:48 oerjan: it's more like that back when they decided the abbreviations, English wasn't yet the most frequent language used in science, so they use german and latin and french and russian and swedish and whatever names instead. 22:24:17 Well, "tungsten" is a Swedish name. 22:24:22 So they should've used it. 22:24:33 except the swedes don't. 22:24:47 Right, they donated that word to English. 22:25:30 apparently tungsten _is_ used in jewelry. 22:26:37 tonguesten 22:28:05 "Tungsten is unique amongst the elements in that it has been the subject of patent proceedings. In 1928, a US court rejected General Electric's attempt to patent it, overturning U.S. Patent 1,082,933 granted in 1913 to William D. Coolidge." 22:28:43 Taneb: that's only used for piercings hth 22:32:01 Understandable 22:32:57 -!- aaronduino has joined. 22:33:02 oerjan: that sounds strange. I mean, patent trolls have tried to patent basically anything, whether it makes sense or not 22:33:12 how come it's the only element where they did that? 22:33:48 hello 22:33:56 well, after the first one, there's a precedent set 22:34:07 and I bet GE had some role in its discovery 22:34:28 Hi, aaronduino 22:34:33 welp, nope 22:34:34 hi, Tabeb 22:34:38 *Taneb 22:35:18 any people here who do ppcg? 22:35:25 MAYBE 22:35:36 aaronduino: some people used to at least 22:35:40 sometimes I read it 22:35:45 never submitted anything 22:35:52 yeah. 22:36:20 I was thinking of starting, but was wondering how stdin works if your esolang of choice only accepts numbers through stdin 22:36:37 my last submission was July 30 22:37:01 isn't there a thread about acceptable input types 22:37:17 hmmm 22:37:29 yes there is 22:37:31 k 22:37:49 although i'm not sure how it treats something _that_ weird. 22:38:26 yeah. 22:38:43 e.g. the ;# challenges 22:38:59 aaronduino: you might try to ask such policy questions on their chat. 22:39:11 oerjan: What, like INTERCAL? 22:39:16 you need some reputation before you can chat. 22:39:29 shachaf: INTERCAL has binary I/O, it's just awkward. 22:39:36 I think I got 101 from coming from stackoverflow 22:39:39 (101 rep) 22:40:12 oh SO is enough, i don't think the chat cares which SE site you're from 22:40:20 it's a common system. 22:40:25 yep 22:40:30 oerjan: the chat IS partitioned to three parts actually 22:40:37 oh? 22:40:49 oerjan: stack overflow chat, stack exchange meta chat, and everything else 22:40:56 * oerjan doesn't follow the chat much, only logged on for specific occasions. 22:40:56 huh 22:41:11 but the reputation you get from stack overflow might still allow you to chat on the general chat 22:41:19 I think so 22:41:22 I don't know that, because I don't care much about stack overflow 22:41:43 in any case, chat needs very little rep, so you can get it easily even without that 22:42:15 the partitioning is more so that chat moderators are different on the three slices 22:42:25 that makes sense 22:42:25 it's not for excluding people from chatting altogether 22:43:01 of course 22:43:43 aaronduino: i don't think your language is famous enough to get a wikipedia article yet hth 22:43:57 ? 22:44:10 wait a sec 22:44:28 it has a esolang.org 22:44:30 page 22:44:40 (not saying its famous, tho) 22:44:54 someone made a red link to it from wikipedia's esolang page. 22:45:27 Cool! 22:45:40 i am not entirely sure it's even famous enough for a section there, but i'm generally not involving myself in _that_ question. 22:45:40 wow 22:46:40 hmmm. 2602:306:31ab:c4b0:454c:258:f30e:636 22:47:08 I get it. Thx 22:47:37 (running on <8 hrs of sleep total for a week right now) 22:48:03 yeah, it's still too hot 22:48:16 haha 22:48:22 ? 22:48:49 sleeep 22:48:55 I still find it hard to sleep because of the aftereffects of the hot weather, even if it's starting to become somewhat less hot now 22:49:21 ahh 22:49:28 For me its just TV. 22:49:33 until 4 am 22:50:48 oerjan: I just saw that you proved turing-completeness of ///. That really cool! 22:53:02 what? string replacement languages like /// were known to be turing complete for very long ago, before the era of esolangs. Knuth actually mentions one of them early in TAOCP even. 22:53:25 but its still hard to make a specific proof 22:53:33 no it's not 22:54:38 it's specifically easy to compile turing machines to it 22:54:50 wob_jonas: but were they string replacement languages like thue, or like /// ? 22:55:03 * aaronduino realized how much of a noob he is 22:55:40 the hard part with /// is that it has no separation between data and program. 22:55:52 oerjan: uh... let me check what /// does 22:55:55 Oh, yeah 22:56:02 like thue, I think 22:58:06 hmm... in that case /// might be trickier 22:58:55 wob_jonas: you essentially cannot get any true while loop going without quining techniques. 22:59:04 wow 22:59:09 as far as we know. 22:59:27 oerjan: I see 22:59:36 I'm sorry then, I was wrong above 22:59:42 I was thinking of more like thue 22:59:51 APOLOGY ACCEPTED 23:01:10 I'm starting to read more about ///; it's crazy 23:04:51 iirc User:Nthern also has made some impressive /// programs. 23:05:55 cool. what do they do? 23:06:04 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:22 `5 23:06:23 1/2:173) oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better? \ 185) clue is a language for beauty, not usefulness or ability to run at all ability to run at all is not even close to a design goal, no \ 32) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that \ 659) [...] `n 23:06:27 2/2:e> So if someone tells you "you're worth your weight in Ethernet", it's likely they think your worth is less than $2k. \ 863) shachaf: contrary to common belief, #esoteric is not really "a channel for crazy people", but has (ostensibly) a topic... is beaky from finland? 23:07:13 https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Nthern/archive#Thue-to-.2F.2F.2F_translator 23:07:26 i need a Thue-to-Frie translator twh 23:07:51 impressive 23:08:22 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 23:09:42 oerjan: I'm thinking of proving asciidots' turing-completeness using bct. Any tips? 23:10:12 well i don't know asciidots 23:10:38 idk, it 23:10:48 nvm 23:11:14 its a functional language with a pointer that holds 2 variables 23:11:25 idk, any tips at all would help 23:11:52 (tbh, i don't really know what I'm doing0 23:12:25 the easiest way to prove tc-ness depends a lot on what data structures your language has. 23:12:57 hmmm 23:13:00 k 23:13:03 if you have bignum integers, i recommend fractran or the like. 23:13:24 if you have first class functions, i recommend SKI calculus. 23:13:30 I'll look into those 23:13:35 esp. fractran 23:13:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:14:05 wow. fractran is crazy 23:14:18 oerjan: Come on, there were a bunch of great puns you didn't swat me for. 23:14:18 (also the collatz functions, which sometimes fits better to a language than fractran does.) 23:14:21 And now you swat me for this? 23:14:36 I'm disappointed. 23:14:37 shachaf: you probably were too subtle hth 23:17:31 i've gtg. Too much procrastinating today :) 23:17:35 :/ 23:17:40 -!- aaronduino has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:21:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:42:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:55:32 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).