00:08:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:12:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:17:01 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:24:13 -!- hppavilion[0] has joined. 00:27:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:28:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:30:07 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:43:19 -!- tromp has joined. 00:48:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:15:35 -!- erkin has joined. 01:17:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:15:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:46:14 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:51:47 -!- augur has joined. 02:56:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:01:06 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: See ya! o/). 03:18:37 -!- joast has joined. 03:26:01 -!- fuyu has joined. 03:31:19 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: Oh noes I ded). 03:40:26 I think punching only the top position is a ampersand, and the MIX character set does not have a ampersand, which makes it difficult to use with MIX if you are using a single hole in one column to represent a month. Specifying amount of money in pence will still be possible though since it only goes from 0 to 11. 03:40:46 (No, wait, I am wrong.) 03:40:55 (Since, it uses top position to mean 10 instead of 12) 04:08:35 -!- jaboja has joined. 04:19:30 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 04:21:24 -!- augur has joined. 04:25:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 04:26:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:35:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:47:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:57:19 -!- imode has joined. 05:12:57 There is the "spider and fly" puzzle involving the shorest distance along the faces of a cube. How to do with the cells of a tesseract? 05:16:27 -!- tromp has joined. 05:21:19 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:04:01 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:10:03 -!- jaboja has joined. 06:11:07 -!- tromp has joined. 06:15:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:20:09 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:30:23 -!- zseri has joined. 06:39:15 esolangs.org seems down again. 06:42:48 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 06:43:50 yeah HackEgo croaked too 06:44:19 fungot: you'll have to steer the ship alone now 06:44:19 oerjan: the t-rex chases, of all places, t-rex, but t-rex explained how the bank that only i was a mutant with a fully-formed extra hand growing out of the base of my spine! if i had an " e", an " x", and so on, to infinity people in it showed a ghostly words written on a slip of paper! 06:45:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:56:49 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:05:15 -!- tromp has joined. 07:07:47 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:09:22 -!- fuyu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:09:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:09:47 -!- fuyu has joined. 07:12:39 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:18:18 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 07:30:49 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:39:23 <\oren\> I should probably stop using the heaviside step function as a response curve. 07:56:25 -!- hppavilion[0] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:23 -!- tromp has joined. 08:03:31 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:06:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:08:25 -!- fuyu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:12:58 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 08:28:01 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:28:56 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 08:31:57 As the response curve of what? 08:33:36 zzo38: Do you like Edwards curves? 08:34:45 I don't know what is Edwards curves? 08:38:21 -!- tromp has joined. 08:54:41 `ping 08:57:29 zzo38: A type of elliptic curve. 08:57:33 Do you like elliptic curves? 09:03:30 . o O ( /ignore -channels #esoteric -pattern 'Do you like' ) 09:04:47 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:06:40 shachaf: also, is that a roundabout way of asking whether we like djb? 09:07:06 Maybe? 09:07:31 He's certainly overrepresented in what I've read about elliptic curve cryptography, which isn't much. 09:07:52 But his arguments for Edwards curves seem reasonable. Are there other arguments I should know about? 09:09:40 I don't know, I thought the arguments he made were persuasive, too. 09:14:38 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:19:45 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:27:43 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 09:40:03 int-e: I did like https://cr.yp.to/patents/tarzian.html 09:44:32 -!- Filystyn has joined. 09:44:38 anyone used autolisp? 09:59:55 From AutoCAD? Not I. 10:00:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:00:58 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 10:12:21 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:14:04 -!- fuyu has joined. 10:15:39 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 10:16:23 -!- fuyu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:20:02 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:56 So, I've just ordered Hardy and Wright's An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers because apparently I like spending money on textbooks now that I've graduated 10:29:02 -!- tromp has joined. 10:32:16 addicted to learning :P 10:42:58 Pretty much :D 10:43:32 It totally isn't because one of my friends is catching me up on Project Euler 10:47:58 hmm 10:48:57 It's time for me to unoxford 10:49:06 oh I'm home already 10:49:09 have a good trip 10:49:12 Thanks 10:49:18 Meeting a friend for lunch in London 10:50:19 (hmm: it seems unlikely that I'll catch up on PE, ever. Now missing almost 370 problems) 10:57:19 and I may have forgotten my password as well, yay 11:13:38 -!- myname has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:26:55 -!- myname has joined. 11:51:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:04:22 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 12:04:53 oh I just got the most horrible troll of an idea for an esolang 12:05:08 I'll have to implement this 12:08:59 . o O ( brainfuck with all commands represented by the same symbol, chosen at random during runtime? ) 12:13:12 int-e: no. this is one about that parody I want to make about a newbie esolanger trying to make a language and an interpreter 12:20:51 Basically I was trying to think of how to write an interpreter that differs from the specification in an interesting way that is also realistic from a newbie. The interpreter can't just be completely useless or missing most of the language, because while that's realistic, it's not interesting. But the differences also have to cripple the language, 12:20:52 which is hard to make realistic. 12:21:13 And now I realized exactly how I could do this. This is tricky to write, but it will be worth. 12:21:25 so it's an underhanded esolang 12:21:33 yes 12:23:37 liars. "We use cookies so that Dropbox works for you." 12:23:53 It has to look like a stupid esolang from the specs, and has to be a completely differently stupid esolang if you actually try to run the interpreter 12:25:09 . o O ( Of course you could also try the opposite, a non-TC esolang that due to a programming error becomes a TC strange machine (ideally in a machine independent way; otherwise you'd just need a buffer overflow or other vulnerability somewhere) 12:25:23 ) 12:26:10 int-e: the implemented esolang might still be TC, it will just be restricted way more than the specs intends to restrict it 12:26:27 so it's much less convenient to program it than it seems from the spec and the examples 12:28:01 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:38:59 Oh! I could even make it work on windows only, as a bonus 12:39:14 or work differently on windows and linux 12:39:29 mwhahahahah 12:47:18 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 12:52:47 Multiplatform differences would make testing a bit trickier for me, I might have to ask help from other people. 12:59:48 I will also make the interpreter horribly inefficient for real computations, and get away with it because today's computers are fast enough that I can run toy examples quickly 13:00:12 And I mean so inefficient that I will scream inside as I read my own source code 13:00:30 Although I think that bothers most people much less 13:02:04 Oh, and I'll have to put the code on github 13:02:11 because that's what a newbie would do 13:02:19 then I can put jokes in the version control history too 13:10:01 . o O ( you could unroll a loop too, to improve efficiency ) 13:17:14 I've no idea how github works, but hopefully I'll figure it out 13:17:38 using github is something a newbie would do, right? they teach that in schools these days or something 13:17:55 best practices version control and github is the most popular version control system or something 13:18:09 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:18:19 git is a VCS, github is just a place that hosts repositories 13:18:25 probably, or perhaps bitbucket 13:18:45 it's a bit annoying it's become defacto standard 13:18:47 put your homework on github so all the other students in the class can copy it easily 13:18:49 though gitlab exists I guess 13:19:24 I wonder if I should try that in fact, making the language an obvious fork from another student's homework 13:19:59 . o O ( you may be reaching the point where you're trying to do too many things at once ) 13:20:03 with the name in a comment at top changed 13:20:08 yeah 13:20:17 this probably works better if it's not a homework actually 13:20:56 because then the teacher would hopefully at least teach something useful about interpreters and maybe look at the students' code and give them advice or something (yeah, I know it doesn't always work like that) 13:21:03 a hobby project by a single person is better 13:21:31 and if it's homework, they wouldn't come to esolangs.org and talk about anyway 13:21:38 if it's copied homework that is 13:22:00 so I will use github, but in a home way 13:29:01 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:38:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:39:10 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 13:53:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:00:17 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:00:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:13:16 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:16:28 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 14:30:57 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:35:01 -!- xkapastel has joined. 14:38:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:17:12 -!- erkin has joined. 15:26:24 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:29:30 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:47:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:49:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:56:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:56:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:11:56 hi ais523 17:12:08 hi 17:12:47 ais523: I think I've started to figure out how I can do the interpreter part of this esolang parody thing 17:13:22 I have had trouble with it because I didn't have any memories of trying to write a bad parser before I knew how to write at least a working parser 17:13:36 but I think now I successfully got in the mindset, and know some core ideas, 17:13:57 so I'll be able to write a parser that hurts when you read the source code, 17:14:25 and more importantly, I know how to write a parser that results in a language that is interstingly more broken than the specified language but not so broken that it's boring 17:14:32 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:15:08 I might still need some feedback from some of you later 17:16:04 -!- Antoxyde has joined. 17:46:55 ais523: What programming language are you going to use to implement the card game that you have invented? 17:47:47 zzo38: I'm not sure if I'm going to implement it at all 17:48:10 wob_jonas: right, I guess this is one of the things you have to see before you can give feedback on it 17:48:51 Maybe I would try to implement it some day then; I don't know. And then you can complain in case I have done it wrong. 17:49:42 ais523: the breakthrough was when I realized I could simply match parenthisized subexpressions with /\((.*)\)/, to support nested parenthesis 17:50:16 but that made me see how I can make the rest of the parser ad-hoc and work only for specific example programs, without handling syntax errors gracefully 17:50:30 not just syntax errors, but things like unusual whitespace 17:50:48 the imaginary person simply didn't try most of the deliberate syntax errors that a person rarely commits 17:51:34 ooh, parsing with regex 17:51:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:47 so he would handle finding a statement keyword that doesn't exist yet, but not a missing expression after a comma in an argument list or something 17:53:03 yeah, I have to be careful with regex, because a newbie might not know of them at all 17:53:39 unless they're programming perl or something, and I don't just want to write the program in perl, because then I'd be too prone to write the perl I wrote when I was young 17:54:06 still I hope I can get away with naive uses of simple regexen 17:56:02 I mean, they're not that unknown these days unless I make the character program DOS Turbo Pascal 17:57:00 Ideally I should probably use Java or C# or something, but I'm not ready for that 17:58:36 well, I might still try. I can probably learn as much Java as the character 17:58:48 I'll just have to find some old and bad enough Java tutorial 18:00:01 Java supports PCRE-style regexes, perhaps surprisingly 18:00:06 I know it surprised me 18:00:39 the main criteria for the regex here is that the dot should automatically match newlines 18:05:30 oh, it doesn't in most regex syntaxes 18:05:34 ais523: I already had matlab as a candidate, because it already allows for (1) doing unnecessary file IO in the interpreter to look which source files exist and also having code that could break in interesting ways when you run it on a case-sensitive fs, 18:06:27 I just used [^] to match any character including newlines 18:06:48 and (2) easily lets the program call matlab functions, which makes the interpreter easier to implement and have the newbie-esoteric trait that it doesn't have arithmetic operator syntax and you have to call matlab's minus and times functions, which easily brings in the parenthesis limitation 18:06:57 zzo38: that won't work in all regex syntaxes, some of them parse the ] as a literal closing square bracket, not as the end of the character class 18:07:08 zzo38: yes, that doesn't work in posix regex, only in perl regex 18:07:17 maybe not even in perl regex, I don't remember 18:07:21 wob_jonas: IIRC it doesn't work in perl regex either 18:07:26 there's probably a syntax where it works, though 18:07:31 Well, [^] works in JavaScript at least. 18:07:33 anyway, the octave regex has dot matching newlines by default 18:07:42 (My implementation of /// in JavaScript does this) 18:08:11 matlab is also realistic as a language a student learns in a university class, 18:08:58 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/slashes.js 18:08:59 and has a reasonable enough syntax that the character could base his syntax on it and because of the builtin function thing, accidentally give .m as the extension for one of his supposed functions written in the program, although I'm not yet sure that works out 18:09:22 I probably won't do that, I'll probably make the syntax too different for that 18:09:50 FYI, wiki is down. As usual, no answer over SSH so... wait and see, I guess. 18:10:38 also, I no longer thing I'll call the character User:Fungot, because sadly there's a mainspace Fungot article which would make people find that before User:Fungot 18:12:07 I got an email alert, but of course I didn't notice until now. Should probably have it do something more visible, but OTOH so far there's never really been anything I could do about it. 18:33:59 -!- tromp has joined. 18:38:39 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:58:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:32:23 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 19:57:02 Why has the Wiki crashed so frequently lately? 19:57:07 -!- atslash has joined. 19:57:15 I don't know? 19:57:45 lol? 20:06:55 -!- imode has joined. 20:17:02 Because of it's hosting provider, I'm pretty sure. 20:19:48 s/'// 20:22:04 -!- tromp has joined. 20:22:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:23:14 -!- Filystyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:23:22 -!- Filystyn has joined. 20:25:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:25:59 -!- tromp has joined. 20:28:45 -!- SigmundYx has joined. 20:51:05 -!- Filystyn has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 21:05:00 GURPS has 100 core spells, which is too much to be selecting at random by use of a deck of cards, even if tarot cards are in use. Even if the Enchantment spells and Recover Energy are omitted, there is still too much. 21:06:14 (Enchantment spells are used to permanently enchant magical items and work differently than other spells, while Recover Energy cannot be cast at all.) 21:06:53 cannot be cast at all? you can only splice it? 21:08:49 Actually no (although I like that idea too, but none of the core spells can be spliced). Simply having it at a high enough skill level allows FP spent on energy costs of spells to be recovered faster by a mage who knows the spell. 21:12:31 I'm not sure it'd be a good idea if it could be spliced, it's hard to balance that thing. 21:12:47 But that depends on the rest of the mechanics and stuff 21:14:09 I just thought you meant that you want a random choice of spell for misfiring a wand that a non-caster is trying to zap, in which case recover energy would make no sense 21:16:33 -!- augur has joined. 21:24:18 -!- ATMunn has changed nick to nnuMTA. 21:24:33 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:30:11 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:30:48 fizzie: admin of esolangs.org (according to whois) is Alan Dipert. Domain Registrar: godaddy; server location: Canada; Nameserver domains@: zem.fi , rollernet.us 21:32:41 ISP = KW Datacenter 21:33:54 I mean a wand with a random effect, even if it is not misfired, but still it has to be a spell that can be cast. (Splicing also won't be used in this case, presumably, though.) 21:34:19 -!- Antoxyde has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:26 zseri: That WHOIS info isn't quite right, possibly because I have WHOIS privacy turned on for the domain. 21:37:09 ah 21:38:20 But yeah, it's hosted (with HackEgo) on a cloudatcost.com "one time fee" VPS, of which stories have been told. 21:38:53 https://www.trustpilot.com/review/cloudatcost.com 21:42:39 fizzie: Just gave it a kick on the panel. 21:43:00 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:43:03 If you have anywhere to move it to, I'd recommend moving it X-D 21:43:14 CaC seems to have gone from bad to worse. 21:45:03 can we just stop using/talking about c@c at all? 21:45:43 fizzie: but why is it then nevertheless hosted there? 21:51:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:02:39 `ping 22:02:47 pong 22:02:58 up again 22:27:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:30:59 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:32:34 -!- zseri has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:37:10 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 22:39:46 Gregor: Thanks. I looked at Google Cloud Platform (we at least used to get some free credit for it), but it can be used only "for business" in the EU. Maybe after Brexit. 22:39:50 (I'm too stingy to pay specifically for it more than the yearly domain renewal.) 22:49:41 There's a few very cheap offerings around, though -- should maybe seriously consider those. They might not be great, but it's not a high bar to be better than the status quo. 23:01:27 -!- nnuMTA has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:55 -!- nnuMTA has joined. 23:16:49 -!- augur has joined. 23:17:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:19:57 -!- SigmundYx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:24:23 -!- nnuMTA has changed nick to ATMunn. 23:56:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).