00:08:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ZAMBONI CHICKEN). 00:16:03 Why do they say pi is wrong? I will agree tau is a much better idea, but that doesn't make pi wrong. (I also prefer to call tau the "period of trigonometric functions" instead of the "circle constant", but that is a different question anyways.) 00:26:05 Because the people saying this are wankers 00:26:14 says this impartial observer 00:26:17 -!- Guest77438 has changed nick to Slereah. 00:31:07 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:44:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:15:51 "trigonometric function" is such a ridiculously complex concept when compared to "circle" 01:16:45 also, tan is a periodic trigonometric function, but it's period is pi 01:16:57 s/it's/its 01:22:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:22:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:10:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:17:48 TIL that ^V puts Kate in VI mode so it uses all VI keybindings. 02:17:50 by accident 02:19:29 zzo38: because "pi is wrong" is a much better attention-grabber than "mathematical pedagogy surrounding circles and trigonometry becomes quite a bit simpler and more effective when we focus attention on the radian measure of a full circle" 02:19:47 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 02:21:01 YIL that loops in 3D rotation space have parity. 02:21:19 Suppose I take an object and turn it around 360 degrees. I just put the object through an odd rotation. 02:21:33 Suppose I turn it around 360 degrees, and then, once again, I turn it around 360 degrees, in any direction. 02:21:38 That's an even rotation. 02:22:20 Any even rotation can be continuously deformed into the identity rotation--the one where you just leave the object alone and don't turn it at all. 02:22:23 Odd rotations cannot. 02:29:23 what 02:29:46 a 360 degree rotation around any axis *is* the identity rotation 02:30:30 Yeah, I'm kind of using the word "rotation" wrong. 02:30:38 What I really mean is "path in rotation space". 02:30:54 ah 02:31:01 Suppose I turn an object 360 degrees, then turn it 360 degrees again. That's an even path-in-rotation-space. 02:31:21 Any even path-in-rotation-space can be continuously deformed into the identity path-in-rotation-space. 02:31:36 Anyway, I just got hit by a wave of sleepiness. 02:31:53 So I'm gonna go home, vacuum some fleas, and go to bed. 02:32:01 Night, all. 02:32:25 -!- ATMunn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:50 -!- ATMunn has joined. 02:44:07 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:06:04 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: :)). 03:21:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 03:30:03 Bland Chess (which is my brother's idea) is not quite the true subset of FIDE; some moves are legal which might not be legal in FIDE because they would put yourself into check if the game was FIDE. 03:31:19 (Bland Chess is a chess variant where all diagonal moves are prohibited, although knight moves are still possible.) 03:54:25 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:12:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:54:58 is bfjoust solved? is there much room for improvement in bots? 05:26:01 I don't know 05:39:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:55:55 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 06:12:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:19:59 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:47:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:58:51 xkapastel: it's kind of rock-paper-scissory, so it is always possible to beat the hill 06:59:13 just figure out something that most of the current jousters are doing wrong and exploit it 07:00:02 i think that it is, in fact, currently possible to beat everything on the hill on every tape length--it's been done before as I recall. 07:02:01 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:10:40 Now I made the program to draw a polygon onto an existing picture (the polygon does not have to be entirely within the boundary of the picture). 07:43:13 Please tell me if this document is good: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ff-dntsc 08:35:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:19 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:39:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:43:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:39 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:35:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:36:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:51:21 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:16:01 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:24:51 -!- augur has joined. 11:29:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:30:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:41:55 -!- Neo1 has joined. 12:59:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:59:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:42:58 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:00:35 -!- fungot has joined. 14:00:45 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 14:10:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:24:02 -!- ATMunn has joined. 14:29:03 -!- Neo1 has quit (Quit: Neo1). 15:00:31 -!- erkin has joined. 15:32:46 -!- boily has joined. 15:36:28 `5 w 15:36:47 1/2:alphabet//Alphabet is a system of writing invented by Google. \ 🐚//(1+sqrt(5))/2 hth \ gblh//Gblh but less helpful. \ hth//hth ([ʰtʰh̩]) is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ dark water//Dark water is an instadeath terrain type in Game Boy games that would represent lava if you had lots of imaginati 15:36:48 `n 15:36:49 2/2:on. 15:43:44 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 15:45:16 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:06:50 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:37:50 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:55:28 -!- erkin has joined. 17:28:20 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: Oh no, default quit message? D: (Either I'm lazy or something bad happened)). 17:29:14 -!- ATMunn has joined. 17:39:14 -!- xkapastel has joined. 17:59:11 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:01:21 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:01:48 -!- Melvar has joined. 18:23:19 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:24:40 -!- fungot has joined. 18:46:39 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:47:05 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:52:30 -!- augur has joined. 19:07:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:22:44 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 19:24:40 -!- imode has joined. 19:30:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:36:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:45 -!- Warrigal_ has joined. 19:45:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:56:42 -!- augur has joined. 20:16:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:38 -!- augur has joined. 20:20:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:36 -!- orby has joined. 20:41:44 Greetings 20:42:50 Has anyone put any serious thought into whether or not harmful brainfuck is turing complete? 20:43:07 It's actually quite interesting imo 20:45:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:47:40 -!- augur has joined. 20:50:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:59:51 Hmmm. I look at it and I think, yeah, it probably is. 21:00:21 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 21:00:24 No obvious obstacles to Turing-completeness. 21:00:41 afternoon 21:01:09 I think it certainly might be, but it's not immediately clear how to do things like loop n times 21:01:51 Hey moony 21:01:54 Actually, it's not obvious that "initial setup" is possible. 21:02:28 'harmful brainfuck'? Link me. Sounds intresting. 21:02:44 Like, suppose I want to initialize the first 128 cells to 128 in a reasonably concise way. 21:02:49 or rather, i'll link myself. 21:02:50 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Harmful_Brainfuck 21:02:57 or not 21:02:59 Or just... 21:03:14 I mean, it's not immediately obvious that it's even possible to jump back to the beginning of the program. 21:03:20 -!- laufen has joined. 21:03:34 And to subsequently continue in a reasonable manner. 21:03:55 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:04:42 Even something as simple as a conditional jump seems tricky 21:05:50 Now I made program converting Netpbm formats into farbfeld (I already had the program converting the other way; now I have both way) 21:05:50 Say we want to jump if the current cell is zero and otherwise not 21:05:59 You could do a conditional jump via, well, trampolines. Just think of it how a GPU programmer might think of it, it looks like it'll become clearer that way. (GPU programming has no conditionals, or at least it didnt for a long time) 21:06:23 orby, that case seems impossible, tho. ): 21:06:40 Well, you don't need that kind of conditional jump, though. 21:06:56 You could, say, represent false as 64 and true as 128. 21:06:57 Yeah, I suppose not 21:07:16 As long as you can implement logic gates and whatnot operating on that, you're pretty golden. 21:07:27 ^ 21:07:38 Hmm, yeah you've got the right idea 21:07:54 But it would be nice to be able to simulate constant jumps. 21:07:55 a simple NOT gate can perform boolean logic. (My proof? Minecraft's redstone torches.) 21:08:12 -!- augur has joined. 21:08:12 a simple not gate looks possible here 21:08:16 and it probably is. 21:08:43 if you can prove a boolean notgate exists, its turing complete. 21:08:50 and thats only one way to do it. 21:08:52 You can simulate constant jumps by just keeping particular constant values nearby the tape pointer... as long as you can set up those constant values in the first place. 21:09:15 Surely the redstone torches aren't *just* a NOT gate. Like, they can have multiple inputs, right? 21:09:15 Warrigal_, +++. 21:09:43 Warrigal_, not directly. Altho, good point. Wasnt thinking about that part :P OR and NOT. 21:09:44 If all you have is NOT gates and composition, then there are only two functions you can make. 21:10:00 or and not is functionally complete though 21:10:09 Yup. 21:10:16 but you need more than functional completeness to be turing complete of course 21:10:16 * moony wracks brain 21:11:42 i'll just step out for now. Too many videogames. *wonders how minecraft computers are turing complete with only NOT and OR) 21:12:12 I too have heard that minecraft computers are turing complete, but I don't know much about how they work 21:12:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:13:05 I think harmful brainfuck is especially interesting because it seems like there is ample room for minimization 21:13:13 which is a bit of a fetish of mine 21:13:24 uhh. ok. 21:13:43 * moony almost imagined how that could be fetishified. 21:13:47 haha 21:13:51 figure of speech 21:14:33 Off the bat we can drop - because the cells wrap around 21:14:50 -!- laufen has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:14:55 and we can combine >+ 21:15:07 which brings it down to 3 commands pretty easily 21:15:26 I'm wondering if it's possible to combine < and * 21:16:22 oh no. a minimizer, hide before he minimizes you! 21:16:49 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:50 mwahahaha 21:17:25 hey, wait i have bait for him. orby, here, go minimize Javascript. 21:17:53 eval 21:17:54 done 21:18:10 heh 21:18:23 orby, now try and outdo JSFuck. 21:18:35 haven't seen that, in the wiki? 21:18:44 yes. 21:19:16 https://esolangs.org/wiki/JSFuck 21:19:40 -!- augur has joined. 21:20:25 that's pretty awesome 21:27:15 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:31:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:47:09 -!- Soni has joined. 21:48:06 new favorite esolang: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ecstatic 21:48:10 I like whitespace 21:48:12 > ...Minor setback 21:48:15 :1:1: error: parse error on input ‘...’ 21:48:25 oh, sorry lambdabot 21:48:43 valid lua string literals can contain valid whitespace 21:49:11 (without it becoming part of the string) 21:49:38 http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html 21:49:42 look for "\z" 21:49:46 same in the lua 5.3 manual 21:50:04 sadly it doesn't work in lua 5.1 21:50:29 (now if only whitespace could be used in making malware...) 22:04:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:06:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:52 Say, that reminds me of a quirk of Lua I found out about recently. 22:08:09 Lua is one of those rare languages where statements don't need explicit terminators *and* whitespace doesn't matter. 22:09:22 So... 22:09:25 This is valid Lua code: 22:09:27 x = true (print)(x) 22:09:30 It prints "true". 22:09:34 But... 22:09:54 Well. 22:09:58 This is also valid Lua code: 22:10:02 x = true y = true (print)(y) 22:10:05 Also prints "true". 22:10:18 This, on the other hand, is a runtime error: 22:10:23 x = true y = x (print)(y) 22:11:25 "x = true y = true (print)(y)" is parsed as "x = true; y = true; (print)(y)", whereas "x = true y = x (print)(y)" is parsed as "x = true; y = x(print)(y)". 22:11:48 So you get the error "stdin:1: attempt to call global 'x' (a boolean value)". 22:12:19 This gives the same runtime error: x = true x() 22:12:27 But this is a syntax error: x = true true() 22:13:34 The reason for all of this is that it's syntactically illegal to use a boolean literal as the function in a function call. 22:14:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:18:52 useful. 22:20:42 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:24:21 Warrigal_: x = print (function() end)() does not do what you think it does 22:27:30 -!- Kaynato has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:27:47 -!- Kaynato has joined. 22:29:35 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:29:35 -!- erkin has joined. 22:29:54 -!- Caesura has joined. 22:32:28 The OASYS compiler doesn't even have explicit terminators (nor does it need parentheses or commas around function arguments, and actually doesn't even accept commas), so if you name a property the same as a global variable or method or whatever, you can have something going wrong. 22:33:21 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:35:22 -!- Soni has joined. 22:35:26 power went out 22:39:12 Soni: I think it does do what I think it does. :D 22:39:29 Warrigal_: and what's that? 22:39:30 I think it calls print with function() end, then calls the result with no arguments, then assigns that result into x. 22:39:41 yeah 22:39:47 Except I think that the second call will produce an error and so the third thing won't happen. 22:39:49 it's really annoying when you love anonymous recursive functions 22:45:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:52:06 -!- imode has joined. 22:57:06 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:07:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:24:38 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:31:57 -!- augur has joined. 23:36:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:44:12 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:54:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 23:55:04 -!- ais523 has joined.