--~~~~" 01:39:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:40:00 -!- augur has joined. 01:47:30 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 01:48:20 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 01:57:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:25 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:09 But chances are I'll manage to forget about how I encrypted the new one I'm making, as well. <-- this might be a rare case where writing it down is the best option hth 02:08:58 damn. walls aren't passable in the labyrinth. 02:12:41 counter machines are beautiful. 02:14:49 imode: i remembered how to do the proof. how much math do you know? i can do it short with compactness, or more long-winded without 02:15:22 oerjan: your choice! long-winded would be nice as I could study it and prompt you with questions in bulk rather than bug you randomly. :P 02:15:58 um the "compactness" is a technical math term, just so you know. 02:16:03 I'm digging into equivalent models and I see that it's rooted in counter machines, inspired by Minsky, Melzak and Lambek. 02:17:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENFORCE CHICKEN). 02:17:22 shoot me the proof. 02:18:34 well ok first the common part. let's say you have a non-deterministic fractran program which simulates an ordinary one (so the result, and whether it halts, is unique). 02:19:08 right, and you could do that with extensive use of flag registers. 02:19:21 no, you cannot. that's what we're proving. 02:19:28 ah. continue. 02:20:44 now assume one instance of the computation runs through a sequence of numbers n_1, n_2, ... etc. 02:21:32 let p_1, p_2, ..., p_k be the primes used. split up each number n_i into a tuple of exponents, one coordinate for each prime. 02:22:01 so the computation is now a sequence of elements of N^k 02:22:24 alright, I follow. 02:23:24 the thing is, and this is what can be proved two ways: for any such sequence there must exist two indices i and j>i such that every coordinate of t_i is smaller than the corresponding coordinate of t_j. 02:24:08 that enforces an ordering, right? 02:24:09 um, _unless_ the sequence is finite. so from now on we're assuming the computation _doesn't_ halt. 02:24:22 yes, it's a partial ordering on tuples. 02:24:34 alright, I follow. 02:26:48 for now, assume this about number tuples. now because of how nondeterministic fractran works, once we've found i and j, we can modify what happens from point j to get a new computation that simply increases linearly every j-i steps. 02:27:18 (btw this partial order of tuples corresponds to the original number n_i dividing n_j) 02:28:27 but this means that we know how to solve the halting problem for nondeterministic fractran. thus it cannot be turing complete. 02:28:57 now, by nondeterministic fractran, you mean randomized rule application, right. 02:29:13 well not just randomized, freely chosen. 02:29:49 I figured. so, riddle me this. that made sense (though I'm still chewwing on it), but how can P systems claim to be turing complete then? 02:30:20 because things on different sides of membranes cannot react with each other, i presume. 02:30:41 right, but that's just a really fancy way of saying "I'm in this state so these rules apply, while the others don't." 02:30:48 which you can achieve by flag registers. 02:31:22 yes but you have a state for _each_ object, and there's no bound on the number of them, so you'd need infinitely many flags 02:31:53 hm wait 02:32:01 no what i'm saying isn't making sense. 02:32:12 let me go look up those P-systems. 02:32:19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system 02:32:28 membrane dissolution directly corresponds to a flag change. 02:33:22 in that if I have some register with the current state as an integer, I can always prepend a check for that register on each instruction to say "this will only fire if the current state is 3". 02:34:11 and a state transition is non-symmetrical, meaning we alter said register after we match on a given rule that says "go to the next state." 02:34:22 instead of just filling it back in with the previous value. 02:35:15 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:35:35 meaning a rule looks like state(1),... -> state(1),... when it's in one state, and on a transition, it looks like state(1),... -> state(2),... 02:36:27 to me that's what the membrane dissolution looks like. I can always know which state I'm in, and because of that I can enforce some sort of order on my computation without it having to be explicitly enforced by the rules of the P-system in question. 02:36:30 sans rule priority. 02:37:14 so that's really what's getting me. the fact that P-systems are very much like FRACTRAN but don't require any kind of explicit ordering in their rule set. 02:44:24 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:46:55 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:51:05 hm oh flags _might_ work in nondeterministic fractran, you just need two opposite ones. something is weird here. 02:51:46 the only odd thing is that you can't test for something like xor. 02:52:04 so the problem isn't flags, it's that you cannot test a number for being zero. 02:52:19 mhm. but you can get around that by simply using 1 and 2. :P 02:52:28 really simple, that. 02:52:29 not for your _real_ data 02:52:40 um no 02:52:51 you cannot test for <=1 either 02:53:47 no no, I mean... if I was using flags, instead of testing whether a flag was unset, I'd test if it was symbolically unset (i.e set to '1') or test if it was (i.e set to '2'). 02:54:08 that I can do. 02:54:20 ok, so membrane dissolution may work. what doesn't work is the "maximally parallel" rule. 02:54:42 if _that_ is essential for getting TC-ness without priorities. 02:55:33 these p-systems have too many variants, it seems, so the statement you don't need priorities is very vague on what you _do_ need instead. 02:55:47 probably a lot of membranes. 02:55:50 if I were to guess. 02:56:19 according to the abstract linked to, only 1 or 2 dependent on variants. 02:57:08 very curious. 02:57:39 i think of the things mentioned in the wikipedia article other than priorities, "maximally parallel" is what cannot be done in ND fractran. 02:58:30 how so? 02:58:34 well, or dividing membranes, but that seemed to be optional. 02:59:11 it's not too hard of a mental hurdle to delay the state change before you've gone through every possible rule. 02:59:36 that actually precludes every cellular automata, including 110. 03:00:54 though from experience most fractran programs would break. 03:03:25 imode: the problem is that to know when to stop delaying, you need to know when you have no more rules matching. 03:03:52 and you cannot do that because it's testing for absence of something 03:04:04 mmmm, I wouldn't say it is though. 03:04:29 it's less testing for the absence of something and more stopping if you have no more work to do. 03:04:44 "no more work to do" _is_ testing for absence. 03:04:51 converting a "test for negative" into a "continue if positive" is trivial. 03:05:05 because it is same as "we're out of input elements" 03:05:18 imode: no it's not. 03:05:38 the point is there is nothing _forcing_ you to continue. 03:06:03 I don't see your point. fractran's stopping point is "I can't find a rule to apply". 03:06:32 what's the difference here? "hand the unchanged state to all the rules, see what pops out, add together everything that pops out." 03:06:37 yes, but this is not a final program stopping point. it's a "go to next phase" stopping point. 03:07:27 and you don't have the means to disallow it randomly going to the next phase even if it _isn't_ finished. 03:07:30 say I have two states with 3 rules in them. one rule in the first state says to go to the second state (by triggering a flag register). 03:08:05 if I apply all 3 rules maximally, I'll have a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:08:26 if I apply all 6 rules maximally, I'll ahve a union of whatever each rule's output is. 03:09:11 in fact, let me sketch this out and paste it. text diagrams on IRC suck. 03:12:07 https://ptpb.pw/u00g so we have two states, each of which has 3 rules. the first state has a transition to the second. regardless of what the specifics of any of these rules are, the current state register always regulates which set of rules is active. all the rules operate on the current state at once and get clumped together after they're done. 03:16:44 you're definitely answering the wrong question but now i need to think of a clearer example... 03:17:03 all ears. 03:21:40 ok this isn't quite satisfactory but how would you emulate the p-system rule "a -> aa" maximally parallely in ND fractran 03:22:08 just "a -> aa"? 03:22:19 yeah. 03:22:22 one sec. 03:22:51 note that it needs to exactly double the number of a's between some well-defined steps. 03:23:03 right, and it just involves one register. it's doubling a number. 03:23:29 and then it needs to do that again, indefinitely. 03:23:34 so.. I mean. 03:23:41 r1(1) -> r1(2). 03:23:58 2/4? 03:24:07 as the equivalent fractran program. 03:24:30 that would double the a's one at a time, not simultaneously. 03:24:43 or wait 03:24:53 steps are still there. 03:25:01 it's just that you don't find one rule then go back to the start. 03:25:14 you find all the rules that match, grab their left hand sides, and combine the whole set of states. 03:25:51 that's not how nondeterministic fractran works. you need to enforce it without having it a priori. 03:26:40 ND fractran does on rule at a time, P-systems as many as possible, and that may be the difference for TC-ness. 03:26:45 *one 03:26:59 hm. 03:27:19 not sure what your point was with the a -> aa rule. 03:27:33 well it's an example in the wiki page 03:27:42 because regardless of whether it's ND fractran or not, I'd still select a rule and apply it. 03:28:20 https://ptpb.pw/ua1Z 03:28:46 here's a.. I guess approximation of the rule set they presented. 03:29:16 i don't understand your notation 03:29:34 'state', 'a', 'c', 'd', 'e', etc. are just registers. 03:30:44 state(1),a(1) -> state(1),a(1),b(1) says "If the state register is >= 1 AND the 'a' register is => 1, subtract 1 from both and add 1 to the state register, the 'a' register, and the 'b' register." 03:30:58 because fractran simulates a register machine underneath. 03:33:15 hm, that could actually be modified into two rules for the first state. 03:33:39 gotta run for a few, but I'd like to continue this when I get back if possible oerjan! 03:34:03 that rule seems to be an infinite loop that can always trigger once it already has 03:34:50 oh i see. 03:39:27 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:00:45 -!- tromp has joined. 04:05:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:35:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:36:24 -!- imode has joined. 04:36:33 back. 04:37:08 i now have more useless knowledge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4 04:37:32 tell me your useless knowledge. 04:39:17 it was in that link hth 04:39:52 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:40:01 it did help. :P 04:41:27 also, that squaring P-system also uses maximal parallelism, i see. i'm pretty sure you'll have trouble converting it into a working ND fractran program. 04:42:37 i'm not sure NDF program even can multiply numbers 04:42:44 *programs 04:43:04 I think instead of talking about fractran, we should talk about counter machines in general. 04:43:25 because that's essentially all fractran is. 04:43:46 well yeah but ND fractran was what we started discussing, and that's weaker. 04:44:09 what exactly is ND fractran as you define it? free choice of rule application? 04:44:18 yep 04:45:08 so instead of "apply all the rules at once, then move on" it's "select a rule from the list at your own will. 04:45:15 "then move on." 04:46:17 I see why that could be difficult but I'm not convinced that it's not possible for a true conversion. 04:46:43 mainly because I could totally skip rules and go for the state transition first. 04:47:24 for counter machines, it corresponds, i think, to having any test have a chance of jumping as if a register is zero even if it isn't. 04:47:50 so instead of free choice you have some kind of chance mechanism. 04:48:16 that's pretty close. 04:48:18 i didn't really mean that. 04:48:37 although i suspect you cannot do everything with randomness either. 04:49:03 there was some literature on nondeterministic prolog programs, and if you wanna look at fractran as a really bizzaro prolog clone, that may be cool. :P 04:49:15 heh 04:50:53 https://ptpb.pw/uEFS so the only real issue I have with this system, if I was going to port it to ND fractran, is the rule with the asterisk next to it. 04:51:09 meaning if we're presented with any set of rules and one state transition, we can always choose the state transition as early as possible. 04:51:11 randomness might help, though, because you can then ignore a 0 probability of not halting. 04:52:40 imode: i think that rule is fine actually. the two previous ones are worse because how do you enforce that the first one doesn't fire alone? 04:53:15 yeah. you can go from the first to the third or repeatedly fire the first. 04:53:19 and totally ignore the second. 04:53:32 you could be dumb about it and break up every rule into its own state. 04:53:50 and form a mutual exclusion table.. thing. 05:00:07 I think you have to encode if-else combos if you're going to have "every rule is its own state". 05:00:30 meaning state(1),... -> state(2),...; state(2),... -> state(3),...; etc 05:00:41 trying to enforce some linear order. 05:01:34 "if you're in state N and your registers match these, go to state 1. else, go to state N+1." 05:03:01 I imagine there's some kind of way to encode that. if you could encode that you could write any set of fractran rules as ND fractran rules. 05:04:55 oerjan: do you know for sure that NDF is weaker than DF? 05:08:38 alercah: it is decidable whether it has to halt 05:08:46 see above 05:09:29 if it goes on long enough, you eventually _will_ reach a number divisible by a previous one. 05:09:44 and then you know it doesn't need to halt. 05:10:52 ah 05:12:54 about 3 hours ago 05:15:50 my question was whether NDF can evaluate all total recursive functions 05:16:11 i think there's also some way to upper bound the time until this happens, given the program and original input, and i suspect that the bound is primitive recursive. 05:16:24 so that's a no? 05:16:28 yeah 05:17:09 otoh i'm not entirely sure NDF can even multiply two numbers given in 2^m 3^n format. 05:17:19 so it might be even less. 05:18:09 I'd like to build a "skeleton" in an attempt to port DF programs to NDF. 05:18:21 what prevents it? 05:18:44 thought. :P 05:18:51 i meant for oerjan 05:18:56 why is multiplication hard 05:19:09 quintopia: i'm not _sure_ it's impossible, it's just that i don't see immediately how to do it either. 05:19:36 like everything else, it's about not being able to test for a "register" being smaller than a constant. 05:20:27 an approach might be to temporarily extend NDF to that kind of capability. 05:20:30 so you cannot really do it with nested for loops since you don't know how to break out of the inner one. 05:20:46 imode: but then it's a completely different task. 05:21:30 oh hm... 05:21:34 no. 05:21:47 https://cms.math.ca/10.4153/CMB-1961-031-9 Melzak's model is also completely equivalent to fractran, so this is interesting. 05:22:38 well, not completely equivalent. wrong words. the concept is the same (take N from here, put M here.) 05:24:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Melzak_model:_a_single_ternary_instruction_with_addition_and_proper_subtraction far more brief here. 05:24:41 the difference is that his model appears to deal with one register at a time, while conway's deals with multiple registers at a time. 05:24:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:27:44 but iirc he touches on something similar to conway's rule format. 05:31:17 imode: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-machine_model#1961:_Minsky.27s_model_of_a_partial_recursive_function_reduced_to_a_.22program.22_of_only_two_instructions 05:32:08 yeah, he encodes an else branch. 05:34:06 so, if every rule in NDF had an explicit action for else, then you could encode any sequence of DF commands. 05:34:27 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:37 that useless machine was invented by minsky btw 05:34:48 heh, really? 05:35:13 wow. 05:35:20 "Minsky's mentor at Bell Labs, information theory pioneer Claude Shannon (who later also became an MIT professor), made his own versions of the machine. He kept one on his desk, where science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke saw it. Clarke later wrote, "There is something unspeakably sinister about a machine that does nothing—absolutely nothing—except switch itself off", and he was fascinated by the 05:35:26 concept." 05:35:42 suicidal by design. :P 05:37:01 "Minsky also invented a "gravity machine" that would ring a bell if the gravitational constant were to change, a theoretical possibility that is not expected to occur in the foreseeable future." 05:38:22 shame he's now an icicle. 05:38:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:34 so if by some measure, you did manage to construct a kind of skeleton with an explicit else branch, you could port any DF program to NDF. but until you have that link, NDF is weaker. 05:44:43 it may be interesting to compare with prolog's style of nondeterminism. multiple matching rules but only one choice. 05:48:48 -!- tromp has joined. 05:53:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:54:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:09:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:39:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:43:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:47:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:48:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:28:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheFriendlyEnemy * New user account 07:32:40 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53226&oldid=53178 * TheFriendlyEnemy * (+196) 07:37:51 -!- tromp has joined. 07:42:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:45:12 -!- augur has joined. 07:47:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:49:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:50:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 07:50:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:50:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:52:03 -!- tromp has joined. 07:57:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:00:37 -!- augur has joined. 08:04:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:38 spämmi 08:31:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:37:35 -!- augur has joined. 08:38:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:51:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 09:18:40 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:40:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:15:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:31:00 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:32:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:37:19 -!- HackEgo has joined. 10:58:58 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:02:02 -!- aloril has joined. 11:03:08 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:16:47 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:16:53 -!- clog has joined. 11:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 11:30:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:35:01 -!- boily has joined. 12:07:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 12:15:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:18 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 12:21:58 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:20 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:22:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LAIR CHICKEN). 12:22:51 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 13:19:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:23:16 -!- pledis has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:31:34 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:00:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:20:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:21:05 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:26:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:00:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:04:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:55 -!- augur has joined. 15:20:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:41:48 -!- augur has joined. 16:43:53 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:04:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:04:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 17:17:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:17:44 I like today's SMBC. http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/smell-this 17:18:38 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:25:18 -!- Remavas has joined. 17:25:31 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:27:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:43:25 if only all SMBC comics were funny like this 17:44:21 what 17:44:32 most are funnier than this 17:45:05 they are fine but they tend to repeat jokes a lot 17:45:14 Joke format, anyway 17:47:39 I don't know. Most of them seem to be based on people being jerks quite deliberately. 17:47:58 you try drawing 7+ comics a week for years without repeating yourself. im impressed how even with such a rigorous schedule, its still funnier than xkcd on average 17:48:10 Well here's the idea 17:48:17 maybe don't draw one per day 17:48:27 quintopia: I wouldn't try :P 17:49:11 th 17:49:39 the oatmeal is funnier on average but updates far less often 17:50:28 also all the long form side projects zach produces are creative and hilarious as well 17:51:17 Slereah: they mostly just repeat jokes with xkcd. if you read both, you get many of the jokes twice. it's unclear which is first among the two, and hard to find otu. 17:51:39 I don't think any of them are first in most cases 17:51:45 quintopia: but from what I've read about comics and comedy, being consistently funny is a full time job, though there are tricks that help (read diversely, talk to people, free association games, and obviously expect to discard 90% of your ideas.). 17:51:45 Those are just general science type jokes 17:51:49 quintopia: yep, it has a very rigorous schedule, and he even managed to publish a book (with good reviews) on schedule 17:51:59 the type that other people have done before and after 17:52:08 Like Nearing Zero in the olden days 17:52:22 Slereah: what's "Nearing Zero"? 17:52:30 and I don't think it's just science, but ok 17:52:32 It was an old science webcomic 17:52:49 do you know an URL? 17:52:53 Also a lot of SMBC comics remind me a bit of "The Parking Lot is Full" 17:52:58 another old timey webcomic 17:53:05 again, do you know an url? 17:53:14 Nearing Zero isn't online anymore but here's an arhcive 17:53:16 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/26/the-best-of-nearing-zero-by-nick-kim/ 17:53:45 oops 17:53:49 not actually a lot of them 17:54:33 http://www.lab-initio.com/best.html 17:54:34 There they are 17:54:39 there's a rather long list at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?272481-Webcomic-List 17:54:47 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz015.jpg 17:54:48 and there was another comparable list somewhere but I can't remember wher 17:54:50 classic science joke 17:55:27 http://j.aufbix.org/plif/archive/archive.htm 17:55:34 and here's The Parking Lot is Full 17:55:41 http://imadudeyo.tumblr.com/ 17:55:44 thanks 17:56:16 . o O ( when we're done, lead poisoning will be the least of your worries ) 17:56:28 In the same kind of off-beat comics like that you had like 17:56:32 "Tom the dancing bug" 17:56:36 etc etc 17:56:53 No comics are really original, it is all just one long continuity 17:58:14 sure, and every joke is new to a newborn 17:58:15 all art is derivative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY http://www.spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html 18:01:01 http://www.lab-initio.com/250dpi/nz192.jpg 18:01:14 Possibly a reference to the nobel prize for the discovery of the CMB! 18:02:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:15:56 -!- erkin has joined. 18:27:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:25 -!- augur has joined. 18:32:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:33:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:43:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:45:57 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 18:46:40 -!- iovoid has joined. 19:01:53 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:47 -!- erkin has joined. 19:47:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:10:03 -!- imode has joined. 20:22:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:27:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:21 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:03:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:04:23 -!- augur has joined. 21:09:52 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:13:18 -!- sleffy has joined. 21:23:54 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:25:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:32:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:46:07 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:58:47 -!- Cale has joined. 22:04:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:16:41 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: grumble). 22:17:09 -!- grumble has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 22:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:54:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:58:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:04:42 -!- boily has joined. 23:45:11 I'm still not convinced NDF isn't turing complete. 23:48:03 NDF? 23:48:30 nondeterministic fractran. thue is nondeterministic and manages to be turing complete and the only difference is the idea that it supports ordered strings. 23:49:12 if you could show a thue program ported to NDF then you'd prove NDF is turing complete through thue. 23:49:38 the key is representing ordered strings. 2017-10-20: 00:06:40 thue can TC because you can force away the nondeterminism. 00:12:20 helloily 00:12:44 boily: like enforcing a linear order to the rewrite rules? 00:12:55 because I swear to god there's some way to do that with NDF. 00:13:26 QUINTHELLOPIA! 00:13:51 imhellode. something like that. 00:15:14 got any examples of that? I don't see many examples for Thue. 00:17:26 on the esolang page, the example right after the hello world. this shows a way to work around nondeterminism, by marking strings with delimiters. 00:18:10 by "cheating" with an alphabet of tags, you can guarantee that some steps always happen in order. 00:19:14 I figured as much. last night I was trying to do the equivalent problem but with multisets. naively I thought that I could enforce a linear ordering by just prepending every rule with a check for a state register. 00:50:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:46 fungot: nostril. 01:01:47 boily: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, that preparing the budget of the union's foreign policy is directed at solving all disputes with neighbouring countries. this has always fallen through, however, this motion does contain elements which are vital if economic and monetary union, the european union 01:06:07 -!- Cale_ has joined. 01:06:10 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:12:17 -!- Cale_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:12:27 -!- Cale has joined. 01:19:03 fungot: What do you think would be the right solution for the post-Brexit Northern Ireland border? 01:19:03 fizzie: the three reports we are debating a report by my colleague, who is an expert from the directorate-general on competition is removed from the original text of the commission's audacity when we see that the single currency because that is not a disaster. this is hardly dignified. it is also our duty to take back funds which could be managed without any major advantages for the regions in the european union 01:22:19 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:29:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:52 -!- Cale has joined. 01:51:22 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:54:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TARGET CHICKEN). 02:07:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:16:43 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:51:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:12:53 -!- augur has joined. 03:18:40 NRRD does not have a "page" kind 03:54:05 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:26 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:14:18 -!- trn has joined. 04:39:41 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:40:23 -!- Cale has joined. 05:55:42 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:05:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:19:57 anybody got any literature on nondeterministic register machines? shot in the dark. 06:20:11 actually make that nondeterministic counter machines. 06:33:24 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 06:35:20 I do not have any 06:41:27 -!- sleffy has joined. 07:17:02 Nondeterministic has multiple meanings, I guess. 07:17:49 Yes, that is one of the thing that I thought too, and, therefore, should need the example? 07:18:15 hi zzo38 07:18:38 How's everything been? What's been going on in zzo38land? 07:18:52 I bet it's something interesting and oddly specific. 07:21:17 @metar KSFO 07:21:18 KSFO 200556Z 20017G23KT 10SM FEW008 BKN016 BKN027 17/14 A2986 RMK AO2 SLP113 60000 T01720139 10172 20161 58009 07:22:08 I have received the latest 2600 issue. I have also played GURPS game on the past weekend. Now, maybe we should need to make hole so that the room can be surveillance from the outside. Also, I worked more on XYZABCDE.ZZT game. 07:22:54 Is the hole in your GURPS game or outside of it? 07:23:37 In the wall, in the story, in the event of the GURPS game. 07:34:59 Although, maybe that isn't necessary and there is a better way to do something. 07:35:47 zzo38: Do you like category theory? 07:36:09 I think so. 07:38:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:43:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:12:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:14:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:17:18 <\oren\> OMG this song is just kyary pamyu pamyu slow and distorted 08:17:21 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/25YqRRvl9gk?t=4m20s 09:10:05 -!- augur has joined. 09:13:34 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:43:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:47:35 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has joined. 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 09:52:42 -!- iovoid has joined. 10:10:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:37 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:29:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:34:56 -!- boily has joined. 12:21:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLOWING CHICKEN). 12:28:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:58:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:30:08 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 14:31:14 -!- iovoid has joined. 14:50:00 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:50:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:56:05 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:11:56 -!- ATMunn has quit (Quit: lol rip). 15:12:10 -!- ATMunn has joined. 15:57:31 http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1000:_1000_Comics/1000_characters HAHAHAHAHAHA 16:16:08 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:16:43 oof 16:47:44 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:50:57 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:55:52 `? happy eyeballs 16:56:09 `ping 16:56:16 fungot, is HackEgo here? 16:56:17 b_jonas: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, we are in the third pillar and in the fundamental question is, in spite of everything and without denying the differences there may be effective. 16:57:55 fungot: wait if you're in the third pillar then who's holding up the other two? 16:57:56 int-e: mr president, mr purvis. i congratulate mrs jeggle on her report which contains figures mostly relating to the fact that the spanish presidency for appearing here so quickly, and also, i believe that, from the point with the rapporteur is correct to propose simplifying the rules of procedure, which we did not do so then we can also quote fnord of but which is not entirely coincidental. i wonder, will the commission prese 17:24:01 Hehe, libcurl has an option CURLOPT_PROTOCOLS to limit what protocol of urls it accepts. This has the set of protocols described as a bitmask in a C long. I wonder what they'll do when they have more than 31 protocols supported. Currently 28 bits are used. 17:35:36 -!- imode has joined. 17:46:07 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:46:40 -!- Cale has joined. 18:00:36 turns out that if you extend NDF to checking for zeros, it is turing complete. 18:00:51 meaning if I can check if a register is empty, it becomes equivalent to a petri net with an inhibitor arc. 18:00:56 and that is turing complete. 18:01:19 but without that (or without some equivalent without extending it), it is too weak. 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:39:34 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:57:23 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:11:55 -!- augur has joined. 19:16:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:19 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:44 actually now that I think about it, what's the difference between checking for something >= 0 and having all your registers assume a default value of zero... and checking for >= 1 while having your registers be set to 1. 19:28:11 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:28:19 @bot 19:28:23 :) 19:28:36 screen-- 19:28:50 @karma screen 19:28:57 screen has a karma of -1 19:29:17 b_jonas: I thought perhaps they should change to "unsigned long long", might be better, then. (But, then, won't be suitable if the compiler doesn't implement that.) 19:33:58 (Apparently, screen -X is not 100% reliable.) 19:40:13 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:24 -!- int-e has joined. 19:48:51 <\oren\> https://i.imgflip.com/1xyq25.jpg 20:04:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:08:53 -!- LKoen has joined. 20:09:54 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:10:18 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest30421. 20:10:53 -!- Guest30421 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 20:11:06 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 20:11:06 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 20:17:46 -!- sleffy has joined. 20:18:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:17:45 -!- augur has joined. 21:18:58 Now I added a "ff-uniq" program, to remove duplicate tiles from a vertical strip. 21:19:10 (Use ff-strip at first if it isn't already a vertical strip.) 21:20:15 -!- nycs has joined. 21:23:05 Do you like this? 21:23:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:35:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:22 -!- augur has joined. 22:02:58 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 22:43:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:03:45 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:09:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:12:27 <\oren\> @tell boily https://i.redd.it/pj7ssi2nwzsz.jpg 23:12:27 Consider it noted. 23:23:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:46:46 -!- augur has joined. 23:48:35 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 2017-10-21: 00:02:16 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:05:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:09:34 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:09:49 -!- augur has joined. 00:56:47 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:22:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:25:30 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:53:58 -!- moony has joined. 02:17:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:18:59 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 02:19:41 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest43044. 02:20:13 -!- Guest43044 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 02:20:14 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 02:20:14 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 02:53:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:55:58 -!- augur has joined. 02:57:49 `? hmph 02:58:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:18 LackEgo 02:59:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:00:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:09:58 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:10:31 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 03:28:59 -!- imode has joined. 03:32:55 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:53:56 -!- trn has joined. 04:22:24 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:44:07 What can you think about this experimental compression algorithm for 16 colour pictures? http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?p=206353#p206353 I have implemented it; in that forum you can also see the picture they gave as an example, and my results with it. 04:45:14 zzo38: this is basically a huffman coding problem; the ideal run length encoding format would be based on the probability distribution of run lengths 04:45:39 (arithmetic coding would be the "ideal" in terms of saving size, but on a NES it would probably require too much ROM space to write a decoder for it) 04:47:46 Yes, I know that, although somehow psycopathicteen suggested this way, so that is what I implemented. Of course if it does base on probability distribution, then those Huffman tables will also need to be stored. 04:48:13 right 04:48:28 this encoding basically says that 1 and 2 are very likely (50% and 25% respectively) and longer runs much rarer 04:49:12 the run length encoding used by bzip2 is probably even denser for that distribution, it exploits the fact that you can't have two runs of the same character in a row 04:49:32 the way it works is that in order to write a run of one character, you just write it, in order to write a run of two characters, you write it twice 04:49:45 but for a run of three or more, you write the character three times followed by the repeat count 04:50:07 the encoding knows whether to expect a repeat count by seeing if it just saw three of the same character 04:50:11 The encoding specified there already can't have two runs of the same character in a row; perhaps read http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?p=206306#p206306 for some related context (the previous version) 04:51:53 "Each color would have a list of the most to least frequent adjacent color (excluding itself) with a hardcoded huffman tree." 04:52:33 So the format actually makes it impossible to represent two runs of the same character in a row. 04:53:44 ah right 04:58:04 The implementation I have made has type 0 as the end marker instead of type 4 (since it is simply a 2-bit number), always stores the first pixel uncompressed as 4-bits (it look like they may have forgotten to mention how to store the first pixel, I suppose), and has a 42 byte header (longer if the palette is included in the output). 04:58:43 (The header specifies the tile size and the five most common colours to come next after each of the sixteen colours.) 04:59:41 (Of course you can then strip out the header if you do not need it.) 05:11:25 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:14:06 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 05:31:41 so. NDF is equivalent to petri nets, in that it isn't TC without some kind of check for zero. 05:51:33 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:52:47 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 05:53:01 -!- puckipedia has joined. 05:56:23 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:18:33 -!- erkin has joined. 07:07:52 What's the best representation for quantum states for computation 07:08:02 Real and imaginary part or polar coordinates 07:30:00 How is NDF working? 07:30:06 What is NDF? 07:36:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:49:37 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:52:52 zzo38: NDF = nondeterministic fractran. 07:53:18 meaning instead of there being a well-defined rule order (rule 1 comes before rule 2, rule 2 before rule 3, etc.), you can execute any valid rule any time. 08:00:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:15:57 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:17:41 what about probabilistic Fractran (where each rule is equally likely to run), can you make that work with probability 1? 08:22:25 ais523: well, it's essentially still NDF. the only way you could make it work is if you had some method of enforcing ordering to the rules. 08:23:01 then it'd be turing complete, but from what I can see, it's not possible without a check to see if a given register is zero. petri nets have the same problem (and have mostly the same base, multiset rewriting) 08:23:20 this is why inhibitor arcs are a common extension to make them turing complete. 08:25:08 but I'm wondering if there's some dumb way to manipulate register checks. the only thing you're lacking is a check for zero, but if you can turn that into a check for one and shift all of your other checks up by one, you "technically" have the same functionality, only with the ability to determine whether a register is in a default state (i.e symbolically empty). 08:30:12 imode: in this case there is a zero test, but a probabilistic one 08:30:31 you can have a rule that's unlikely to run if a given value is nonzero because there'd be many more alternatives 08:30:43 hm. 08:30:56 that's an interesting entry point. 08:31:44 you might be able to make that work, but I like going with "asshole fractran", where if you can choose the rule that moves you into the next symbolic state, you run with it. :P 08:32:58 probabilistic fractran is quite close to real-life systems like biochemistry, so it'd be nice if it were TC 08:33:36 what's been confusing me is that, somehow, P systems are turing complete. 08:34:04 while NDF is apparently not, but P systems seem to be equivalent to NDF. 08:34:29 membrane dissolution corresponds to flag changes and thus state changes. 08:35:32 though to be honest I can't tell whether P systems emphasize maximal rule application (i.e all possible rules are applied at once before you update the state) or some other weird application method. 09:18:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:47:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:51:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 10:38:29 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 10:51:05 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: ZNC Sucks >_>). 12:06:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:12:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:35:12 -!- LKoen has joined. 12:37:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:38:00 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:09:40 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:20:29 -!- boily has joined. 13:37:30 `5 w 13:37:35 @massages-loud 13:37:35 \oren\ said 14h 25m 8s ago: https://i.redd.it/pj7ssi2nwzsz.jpg 13:38:23 \oren\: ヘ＼＼オレン＼！www 13:39:21 * boily lightly, persistently, precisely mapoles fizzie. fizziello. please HackEgo PLZKTHXHTH 13:47:21 Huhwha. 13:48:05 ^style 13:48:05 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:48:08 It's done the "socat 100% CPU use" thing *again*. 13:48:29 I will poke it with a stick. 13:48:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:48:35 fizzie: that bug is fixed in the repo! 13:48:42 int-e: Was it? 13:49:18 but glad I'm not the only one who was bitten by this 13:50:52 hmm, let me try to reconstruct 13:51:35 "2017-01-25: Socat version 1.7.3.2 fixes uninterruptable hang / CPU loop on host resolution problems" 13:53:28 fizzie: http://repo.or.cz/socat.git/commit/6b596b8852d8fad2675894e3ceb18a04801eaf23 13:53:57 (it's still a bit worrying that there would be a SIGSEGV in the first place) 13:55:05 And, apparently, lambdabot is still using 1.7.3.1 hmm. I should do something about that. 13:55:31 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:56:53 Hmm. "socat version 1.7.2.4+sigfix" 13:57:19 ...except this is probably the socat in the HackEgo chroot... 13:57:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:57:50 Which seems to be the same. 13:58:33 `thanks fizzie 13:58:39 Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. 13:59:41 so what does the +sigfix mean... 14:00:47 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:02:01 (It does sound like it could be the right thing, but I bet socat does more than one thing with signals.) 14:03:04 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:05 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:06:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CAPABLE CHICKEN). 14:06:10 @bot 14:06:17 :) 14:06:25 -!- int-e has left ("SALAD CHICKEN"). 14:06:25 -!- int-e has joined. 14:06:43 -!- atslash has joined. 14:34:17 int-e: Not sure, the deb version number doesn't mention the "sigfix", so I can't tell from the changelog. Though there is an entry saying "Backport upstream fix to prevent DoS with fork, fixes CVE-2015-1379 (closes: #776234)", and *that* bug says "socats signal handler implementations are not asnyc-signal-safe", so it's probably that. 14:35:02 I should just upgrade that box from jessie to stretch. 14:39:50 fizzie: that description sounds like http://repo.or.cz/socat.git/commit/2af0495cc6534a08d0783a1613d6c9a488ab97e6 ... and it looks like that patch is what introduced the infinite loop via the SIGSEGV handler. (If the SIGSEGV handler returns without disabling itself, and without doing any dirty platform-specific fixups, then it will immediately trigger again.) 14:41:06 Anyway, stretch ships 1.7.3.1, which is still affected. I installed the .deb from sid on stretch... 14:43:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:02:07 fizzie: err, never mind. the stretch version is fine; it includes a patch for the problem. 15:02:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:17:54 -!- ATMunn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:17:58 -!- ATMunn_ has joined. 15:18:21 -!- ATMunn_ has changed nick to ATMunn. 15:31:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:33:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:11:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:48:17 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:48:40 -!- atslash has joined. 16:56:03 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:57:46 -!- imode has joined. 17:08:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:26:37 -!- LKoen has joined. 17:30:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:33:09 hellais523 17:36:37 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:41:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:51:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:03:20 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:04:07 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:04 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:20:09 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 18:20:09 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:25:08 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:35:42 -!- erkin has joined. 18:43:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:51:41 -!- moony has changed nick to nvm. 18:58:49 * ais523 has an idea for an esolang 19:00:11 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53233&oldid=53222 * Ais523 * (+18) /* C */ +[[Countercall]] 19:09:07 -!- [io] has joined. 19:09:31 -!- [io] has quit (Changing host). 19:09:31 -!- [io] has joined. 19:09:31 -!- [io] has changed nick to Guest64997. 19:10:40 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:10:41 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:10:53 -!- Guest64997 has changed nick to iovoid. 19:11:06 [wiki] [[Countercall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53234 * Ais523 * (+2738) new language! 19:11:42 [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53235&oldid=52144 * Ais523 * (+17) +[[Countercall]] 19:11:56 it's nice to have an esolang idea and make it into a finished esolang-documentation in under 20 minutes 19:12:57 What's a good way to implement quantum states on a simulation 19:13:18 It's a bit hard due to the possible entangling 19:14:11 I'm thinking maybe every qubit is a list of states, and every of those states has a list of pointers to other states 19:15:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:16:03 -!- atslash has joined. 19:16:17 So that [|0> x |1> + |1> x |0>] would be something like two qubits defined as [ [0, ptr], [1, ptr] ] and [ [1, ptr], [0, ptr] ] 19:16:32 And each pointer points to the appropriate state it is entangled to 19:17:10 One way is to use a full state vector, but then it becomes larger; it is 2 to the power of however many bits. 19:17:32 Full state vector sounds unwieldy to use, especially if I want to implement registers 19:17:57 -!- ^io has joined. 19:18:02 -!- ^io has quit (Changing host). 19:18:02 -!- ^io has joined. 19:18:06 Yes, I think it is unwieldy, but I don't know how well any other way will work, either. 19:18:27 Plus I'm guessing that most states will be either not entangled at all or just entangled to one other state 19:18:39 -!- iovoid has quit (Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 19:18:39 -!- ^io has changed nick to iovoid. 19:18:50 I dunno, do you think the idea I proposed would work? 19:19:27 Well i guess the pointer should be a list of pointers or something a bit more complex, in case there's three or more states involved 19:20:59 Hmm 19:30:57 Hm, wait 19:31:01 I guess it should be more 19:31:21 [ [0, 1], ptr ] and [ [1, 0], ptr ] 19:31:22 Slereah: [ (0 , 1 ] , ptr ] and [ [ 1 , 0 ] , ptr ]) 19:31:27 Too slow! 19:31:35 heheh 19:32:07 Or more generally [ state, [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:32:26 ais523: so adding a constant or multiplying a positive counter by a constant seems straightforward at least 19:32:45 FireFly: yes 19:33:16 hmm, maybe a multiply+divmod construction is the way to go? implementing divmod in this seems like a nightmare though 19:33:28 same for running a procedure C+constant or C-constant iterations 19:33:46 Wait 19:33:54 yeah, it does, I was trying to think of a way to do it but it doesn't seem particularly easy 19:33:56 I think the general one would be like.... 19:34:19 [ [state1, state2, ...], [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:34:20 Slereah: |spelling error 19:34:20 Slereah: | [state1, state2, ...], [ptr1, ptr2, ...] ] 19:34:20 Slereah: | ^ 19:34:29 hush, j-bot 19:34:57 Where there's an implicit tensor product on every state 19:35:09 and the states are summed with the states of the pointer list 19:36:06 I think that could work 19:36:36 Hm wait 19:36:39 that's no good 19:36:59 It needs to be the other way around 19:37:11 The various possible states in the array for a single particles 19:37:25 otherwise I can't keep track of the memory 19:39:39 Ah, I guess I need more information 19:40:12 [ [state1, state2, ...], [ [ptr11, ptr12, ...], [ptr21, ptr22, ...], ... ] ] 19:40:13 Slereah: |spelling error 19:40:13 Slereah: | [state1, state2, ...], [ [ptr11, ptr12, ...], [ptr21, ptr22, ...], ... ] ] 19:40:13 Slereah: | ^ 19:40:46 So that this structure corresponds to the state [ state1 x ptr11 x ptr12 x ... + state2 x ptr21 x ptr22 x ... + ... ] 19:40:58 I think that should work 19:42:21 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:45:58 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:53:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:00:18 -!- fungot has joined. 20:08:19 and I think that works for every type of one-particle Hilbert space 20:31:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:32:03 [wiki] [[Feather]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53236&oldid=40334 * Ais523 * (+387) given that I spent a decent chunk of time and sanity discussing Feather a while ago, it's only fair to let everyone else know where they can find it 20:32:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:36:43 -!- iovoid has changed nick to Guest1166. 20:36:53 -!- Guest1166 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:40:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:43:22 [wiki] [[Countercall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53237&oldid=53234 * Ais523 * (+91) /* Syntax */ mention the comment syntax; this was always planned, I just forgot to write it down 20:44:24 oh, new stuff on feather eh 20:45:35 no, just a link to old stuff 20:45:46 ah 20:45:53 but letting people know where they can find information on Feather seems like a useful addition to our article on it 20:46:28 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 20:49:28 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:57:34 Do you know about "third man argument"? I read the Wikipedia article about it, and it look to me, Self-Predication is wrong. Being F is the wrong kind of property to say that the form of F-ness is or is not F is a statement that is meaningful. 20:58:33 ais523: I had actually missed that conversation I think 20:58:44 (I am also not so sure of One/Many; they aren't necessarily contrary, because it can depend how do you do the dividing.) 21:01:05 I watched a movie called The Third Man once. 21:01:32 Is there any relation to third man argument? 21:46:15 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 22:03:24 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 22:05:14 -!- LKoen has joined. 22:09:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:12:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:22:51 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:25:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 23:05:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:13:56 -!- nvm has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:29 -!- nvm has joined. 23:21:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:23:48 -!- boily has joined. 23:25:57 -!- LKoen has joined. 23:45:15 Is there a X resource manager implementation in Haskell? I have implemented X resource manager in JavaScript. One idea for implementing it in Haskell might be that the database has type (XRM x y), which has resources of type ([(Binding,x)],y) where the first half of the pair is the key and the second part is the value. (So, you can't have duplicate keys.) (The type (XRM String String) will be the usual way, although this doesn't allow for XrmUnique 23:48:25 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 2017-10-22: 00:15:04 [wiki] [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53238&oldid=53220 * HereToAnnoy * (+85) Spec consistency 00:48:31 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:50:28 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:57:19 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:02:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:16:31 -!- augur has joined. 01:21:15 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:16:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLVED CHICKEN). 02:59:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:31 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:11:13 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:15:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 04:26:48 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:08:28 What is the following theorem called: Any category that has more than one object has N+1 or more monads if N is the number of final objects that that category has. 05:14:00 Why would that have a name? 05:14:45 Aren't the theorems supposed to have a name? 05:18:24 you could write a paper 05:18:29 and then it could be called Theorem 3.4 05:21:37 O, yes, I suppose that is possible. But, such number is local to that document, so the global name will be named by prefixing the document number too, then, I suppose. 05:21:53 But, I didn't write a paper, so none of that is applicable. 05:22:19 it's definitely been done 05:22:25 "see Theorem 8.4 in [3]" 05:22:42 Is it a theorem or a lemma? 05:41:42 it's probably a lemma. 05:42:59 or a series of lemmata for each value of N 05:43:43 nah. not distinct enough to list separately 05:53:35 Now I tried making the implementation of X resource manager in Haskell. I do not have Haskell on this computer, and also have not made any programming in Haskell for some time, so, I don't know if it is correct, or even if it will compile, or if it is good. However, it is: http://sprunge.us/hEbZ 06:09:24 I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm using fractran as a scripting language for a game. 06:12:50 it involves moving resources around and wiring up a really stupid simple register machine to my game objects is actually a terribly simple way of managing resources and externally managed flags. 06:20:09 What game is that? Although, I suppose yes it can have a use. 06:22:45 got a little weird mashup between pokemon, tamagotchi and zelda 1 going right now. 06:23:02 and it features little creatures that you control that have a few things. 06:23:53 an element/type, a resource meter, and a single ability. their ability is context sensitive to the area they're in (they move and live on a tile-based grid). 06:24:46 the gimmick is that you can take care of them and control them. you take care of them by raising them in your "zoo" and you can take a few of them out into a wider world to do different things like scavenge for resources. 06:25:59 each critter can only contain one type of resource, and that corresponds to the element they are. so water elementals can store water. earth can store earth. plants can store plants/seeds. 06:26:25 exposing the internal state of them + whatever tiles they're near via registers seems like a good idea. 06:26:29 that way you can write rules like.. 06:27:24 I suppose I understand how you mean now, although I don't know what registers they are. 06:27:42 Direction: North, Background: Water, BackgroundState: 25, ResourceLevel: 5 -> Background: Ice, BackgroundState: 0 06:27:42 -!- zzo38 has left. 06:27:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:28:31 that rule reads "if you're facing north, and the tile north of you has a type of water, and the state of that tile is 25 (think water level), and your internal resource level is 5, turn it to ice and set its background state to 0." 06:28:37 though really it'd be... 06:28:51 Type: Water, Direction: North, Background: Water, BackgroundState: 25, ResourceLevel: 5 -> Background: Ice, BackgroundState: 0 06:28:59 or Type: Ice or what have you. 06:29:53 actually ice would be better. Type1: Cold, Type2: Water -> Result: Ice. all of the symbolic names like water, north, cold, ice, etc. would be mapped to actual numbers. 06:31:59 That isn't quite Fractran, although I can see how such a thing could be done in Fractran, if you add a second rule to restore the state, I suppose (unless you are doing it differently) 06:32:55 fractran simulates a register machine underneath it. 3/2 is really r1(1) -> r2(1). 06:33:57 Yes, I know that, although if it isn't in lowest terms then it won't work and you will need to add another "trigger" onto it, so that it will work. 06:34:45 so you could encode that rule via mapping each of the registers like Type, Direction, Background, BackgroundState, ResourceLevel, etc. onto a prime number. when your critter uses his ability, the engine runs through the rule list after setting the registers for things like Type, Direction, etc. 06:37:40 Yes, although still it look it won't work in Fractran unless you then add a "guard", or if Direction:North is given its own prime number, or whatever. 06:37:53 well, Direction is a register, North is a value. 06:38:38 so if Direction is register 1, and North is, say, value 1, then the encoding for the state of that register is 2^1. 06:39:07 Yes, I know that. 06:41:30 -!- Cale has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:55:04 -!- Cale has joined. 07:10:07 Looking from the esolang wiki Fractran article, I found the Stack Overflow code golf. They have the following JavaScript implementation: function(n,p,q,i,c){i=0;while(q=p[i],c=n*q[0],(c%q[1]?++i:(n=c/q[1],i=0)) This is my shorter version: (n,p,c)=>{while(p.some(([x,y])=>(c=n*x)%y?0:n=c/y));return n} 07:10:36 Can you shorten it any more? 07:11:52 (The function is given two arguments: The first is the input number, and the second is the list of fractions, where each fraction is a list with the numerator and denominator.) 07:16:34 nope, I'd say that's pretty well reduced. 07:17:46 Maybe they used an older version of JavaScript which does not have the stuff that I have used. 07:18:51 more than likely. ES5 and ES6 and all that. 07:19:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:19:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:24:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:25:08 -!- augur has joined. 07:29:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:37:57 I have shortened it more: (n,p)=>{while(p.some(([x,y])=>n*x%y?0:n=n*x/y));return n} 07:38:08 zzo38: ah, I see what you mean. if North is 3, South is 1, and I'm checking for South, the rule would match if I'm facing North. 07:38:11 (Writing n*=x/y doesn't work, due to rounding errors.) 07:39:32 I'm assuming that I could modify that trivially to include a guard that says "only this EXACT quantity." 07:39:43 that's not hard. 07:39:46 Yes, that is what I mentioned. 07:40:10 so yeah, not quite fractran but damn close. you could emulate that behavior by setting some more flag registers but I'd rather just add to the syntax. :P 07:41:33 Yes, that is OK. 07:48:39 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 07:51:28 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:28 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:59 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 07:56:11 [wiki] [[Talk:Fractran]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53239&oldid=21317 * Zzo38 * (+511) 08:15:15 [wiki] [[Talk:Fractran]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53240&oldid=53239 * Zzo38 * (-3) 08:17:21 Even more shortened now: (n,p,f=_=>p.some(([x,y])=>n*x%y?0:n=n*x/y)?f():n)=>f() 08:45:48 But it doesn't have big integer arithmetic. 08:45:54 So presumably it only works for toy programs. 08:56:39 .oO(Non-toy FRACTRAN programs...) 09:06:10 Yes, that much is correct. 09:16:45 (Although, the original version also had the same problem.) 09:17:01 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 09:48:22 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:35:21 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53241&oldid=53210 * Rdebath * (+1882) 11:36:21 [wiki] [[Feather]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53242&oldid=53236 * Rdebath * (-7) Remove debris from ``` tag 11:40:11 -!- erkin has joined. 11:55:41 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53243&oldid=53241 * Rdebath * (+3) Mmmm green screen 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:07:45 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:08:12 -!- atslash has joined. 12:23:29 [wiki] [[BrainCube]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53244&oldid=53123 * Rdebath * (-39) Formatting 12:25:47 -!- augur has joined. 12:29:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:31:13 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:32:20 [wiki] [[Super Stack!/superstack.ml]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53245&oldid=34738 * Rdebath * (-23) Formatting 12:47:10 I'm programming the quantom computer on C++ 12:47:18 It has been a while since I've dealt with pointers 12:55:27 I don't even remember how to instantiate an array in C++ 12:55:36 new State[n] isn't the way! 12:56:53 Does C++ still use malloc, I forget 13:05:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:06:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:30:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:53:33 -!- boily has joined. 13:53:57 why c++? 13:57:57 because male models. 13:57:59 Slereah: C++ has an abstraction called allocators; the standard one may (and should, really) be using malloc 14:00:18 (should, because I think that effort on optimizing variable-sized allocation should be spent on improving malloc.) Shiny: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=glibc-malloc-thread-cache 14:02:11 should, also, do prevent silly things like https://www.zerotier.com/blog/2017-05-05-theleak.shtml 14:02:18 s/do/to/ 14:13:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:17:14 Why not C++* 14:17:38 I'm mostly using it because I want to be able to do arithmetics on quantum states so I need to overload arithmetics and logical operators 14:18:06 Rather than do some awkward Add(State1, State2 14:55:48 c++ is one of the worst languages i know 14:59:04 it is 14:59:11 But I coded it lots 14:59:16 so it is mostly fine 15:01:24 @karma c 15:01:24 c has a karma of 2 15:01:28 c-- 15:01:30 c-- 15:01:49 @karma c/c 15:01:49 c/c has a karma of 1892 15:02:17 How is Karma rated 15:03:05 @karma c 15:03:05 c has a karma of 2 15:03:25 @karma- c 15:03:25 c's karma lowered to 1. 15:03:28 @karma- c 15:03:28 c's karma lowered to 0. 15:03:29 :P 15:03:35 Oh no 15:03:37 You monster 15:03:38 C++ 15:03:41 @karma C 15:03:41 C has a karma of 0 15:03:43 @karma+ c 15:03:43 c's karma raised to 1. 15:03:46 (I like C) 15:07:39 there was a time when C++ lowered the speaker's karma, but I think that hack is gone. 15:08:25 @karma Slereah 15:08:25 You have a karma of 1 15:08:27 Phew 15:08:57 @karma int-e 15:08:57 int-e has a karma of 11 15:09:15 @karma myname 15:09:15 myname has a karma of 1 15:09:55 @karma blah 15:09:55 blah has a karma of 31337 15:10:07 and then there are stupid people who have nothing better to do than this 15:10:23 Or are they geniuses 15:10:38 doubtful 15:11:26 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:12:36 @karma boily 15:12:36 You have a karma of 108 15:12:48 ah! I'm still at 108 ^^ 15:13:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DICTIONARY CHICKEN). 15:49:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:02:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:02:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:07:18 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:15:23 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:25:07 -!- LKoen has joined. 16:41:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:48:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:57:19 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AAAAAAAA * New user account 17:04:55 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:08:24 AAAAAAAARGH! 17:09:13 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53246&oldid=53231 * AAAAAAAA * (+212) 17:18:42 [wiki] [[Popular problem]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53247&oldid=41270 * AAAAAAAA * (+199) 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has joined. 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host). 17:33:47 -!- iovoid has joined. 18:25:07 -!- nitin59 has joined. 18:25:50 -!- nitin59 has quit. 18:26:06 -!- nitin59 has joined. 18:37:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:51 anyone tried this ... esolang lovers might like this... -> https://www.nevercompletedgame.com/ 18:39:22 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:42:24 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:45:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:47:04 i don't 19:11:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:13:22 way too US centric anyway 19:13:48 that's true... 19:21:54 the first maybe 20 were kind of nice, but then it got more and more obscure. I cheated my way to 32 but what's the point. 19:22:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:23:15 And even before that, I used google. I didn't recognize 4.6692, for example. I recognized the taxicab number but that wasn't an acceptable answer. 19:26:42 -!- imode has joined. 19:27:18 The hell is question 15 19:27:31 The sequences are missing 4, 2 and 8 19:27:38 But beyond that 19:27:40 Not a clue 19:27:56 Slereah: that's your answer right there. 19:28:05 What is 19:28:12 428 19:28:19 Oh, that's what they expect? 19:28:26 I thought I was to find the next in the sequence 19:30:12 i don't like puzzles that are hard because you don't get told what to do 19:30:29 yeah it's a bit shit 19:30:38 A lot of those questions have plenty of possible answers 19:31:11 also, zachtronics new game is awesome 19:31:55 One of them is just 1729 = 1^3 + 12^3 = 9^3 + 10^3 19:32:09 The answer is neither taxicab number or Hardy–Ramanujan number 19:32:36 or variations on those 19:34:01 yes the game is not straight forward... it has multiple answers.. even website has one comment about the game... :P 19:34:22 yeah it is not very fun 19:34:37 Like old adventure games where you had to read the mind of the developpers to guess solutions 19:35:09 Is the empty set a Grothendieck universe 19:35:37 Is using that universe equivalent to just saying small sets don't exist 19:36:05 It is vacuously true, yes 19:36:38 And the next smallest universe is the one that I am used to using I think, containing the natural numbers 19:37:01 Or... no 19:37:01 It is just N yeah 19:37:22 Is {{}} a universe? 19:37:32 I like natural numbers 19:37:45 {{}} doesn't contain the power set of {} 19:37:49 these games are no fun if playing alone... if people come and play then it might be some fun.. like the people on /sci/ blog they played together and finished it... 19:38:02 Slereah, you're right 19:38:12 I'm going to decree that game as no fun in the first place 19:38:16 They're bad puzzles 19:38:38 just an FYI the game has almost all answers somewhere on their blog... so don't waste too much time on these puzzles... 19:51:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:05:31 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:06:52 -!- nitin59 has quit. 20:15:34 myname: opus magnum? 20:15:53 zeah 20:22:36 Slereah: yeah narrowing down the right idea to the expected answer is tiresome 20:24:21 myname: hmm, is it like the magnum opus challenge on a hexgrid? 20:28:23 it's like those old timey text adventure game 20:28:31 Where you have to guess the correct verb 20:38:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:37:37 -!- augur has joined. 21:41:02 -!- dingbat has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:41:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:43 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:56:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:30:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:35:22 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 22:36:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:51:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:04:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:19:52 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:20:30 -!- Cale has joined. 23:21:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:57:08 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2017-10-23: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:20 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:06:38 -!- LKoen has joined. 00:10:48 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:14:13 -!- boily has joined. 00:15:09 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:25 -!- fungot has joined. 00:23:05 fungellot. 00:23:12 quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA. 00:27:06 hello 00:27:45 -!- aloril has joined. 00:29:04 moo 00:29:25 moo? 00:29:42 mooooooooo 00:30:48 * nvm continues running apgsearch 00:31:04 mooooo 00:52:13 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:00 moooooooooo 01:25:19 `unidecode 𝓒𝓗𝓞𝓜𝓢𝓚𝓨𝓓𝓞𝓩 01:25:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 01:25:23 ​[U+1D4D2 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL C] [U+1D4D7 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL H] [U+1D4DE MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL O] [U+1D4DC MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL M] [U+1D4E2 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL S] [U+1D4DA MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL K] [U+1D4E8 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT CAPITAL Y] [U+1D4D3 MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIP 01:25:42 ok 01:41:35 -!- nvm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:27:14 -!- moony has joined. 02:46:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FISH CHICKEN). 03:03:23 Do you like Mitrofanov's "Rustaveli-study"? 8/k7/P2b2P1/KP1Pn2P/4R3/8/6np/8 # 03:06:01 <\oren\> someone should write the book "Celsius 233" 03:07:29 What is that book about? 03:13:17 \oren\, ok, here it is: "this is a book." 03:13:23 it tells its own story :D 03:14:16 O, OK. 03:59:27 http://optipng.sourceforge.net/pngtech/better-filtering.html "For images of color type 3 (indexed color), filter type 0 (None) is usually the most effective." There are cases where this is not true; this is one example: http://zzo38computer.org/img_1C/palette.png (and, to me at least, it seems easily enough to see how) 04:00:41 Also, in all three cases of the example pictures, I have achieved better compression with my "ffpng" program than the numbers given there. 04:03:32 frymire.png: "w32768 n258 f0" gives IDAT size 250245. serrano.png: "w32768 n258 f0" gives IDAT size 106434. lena.png: "n258 m6 w2 e0,2" gives IDAT size 473108. 04:08:29 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:19:28 One more thing to consider can be: If filtering is in use (or even if it isn't in use, because then the filter types are all zero, and because the way the code length table is recorded), to consider the order of the colours in the palette when encoding in indexed colour mode. 04:43:49 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/bQd7Z6Z 04:53:03 What is that picture from? 04:53:23 (Also, why do they split the picture into several IDAT blocks?) 05:00:32 (Encoding settings "n258 w512 e-1,512,258 m6" reduce the picture from 196372 bytes to 88875 bytes.) 05:01:33 And what is the context of what they are saying? 05:15:48 <\oren\> zzo38: his daughter is in love with a delinquent who looks really scary 05:18:14 OK 05:50:32 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:56:18 -!- sleffy has joined. 06:02:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:23:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:01:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:05:05 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:05:10 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:05:27 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 07:05:50 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Guest25361. 07:12:06 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 07:21:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:26:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:33:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:25 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:02:25 -!- LKoen has joined. 11:37:15 -!- boily has joined. 11:43:01 `5 w 11:43:10 1/2:diagram//A diagram is just a functor. \ frozen water//Frozen water is just ice. \ oya yakuman//We don't know what an oya yakuman is, but based on boily's reaction, it must be quite painful. \ bézout's theorem//Bézout's theorem says that if a system of polynomial equations over the complexes has as many variables as equations, then in 11:43:11 `n 11:43:11 2/2:the general case the number of solutions it has is equal to the product of one less than the degrees of the polynomials. \ unlambda//``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 11:58:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:22:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GEOGRAPHIC CHICKEN). 12:27:00 -!- MrBusiness3 has changed nick to MrBusiness. 13:29:55 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 13:41:43 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:10:52 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:14:45 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:29:22 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:35:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:39:59 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:50:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:52:51 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 16:32:27 -!- moony has joined. 16:35:08 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:09 -!- sleffy has joined. 16:39:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:19:07 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:39:30 -!- Cale has joined. 18:07:05 Maybe, you don't know what is oya yakuman, but I do know. 18:41:51 -!- erkin has joined. 18:50:48 -!- imode has joined. 18:56:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:00:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:24:30 -!- Cthulhux has quit (Changing host). 19:24:30 -!- Cthulhux has joined. 19:29:23 Due to this article http://optipng.sourceforge.net/pngtech/too_far.html I have managed to achieve even better compression; now I have shortened the IDAT chunk of frymire.png to 249821 bytes. 19:32:15 you could try to make a png that displays its own hexdump 19:32:54 (I'm not 100% sure that this is even possible, but the gzip quine means that there's hope) 19:45:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:46:55 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:48:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:58:02 Yes, that is a idea, although I don't know how to do it. I have once found a PNG that claimed to be a QR code encoding of itself, although from what I can tell the data that it decodes into appears to be scrambled (but vaguely looks like a PNG file). 20:13:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 20:23:30 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:59:37 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:02 -!- Guest25361 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 21:08:05 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 21:08:05 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 21:20:05 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:27:55 -!- augur has joined. 21:34:05 How to make vim to automatically set syntax for any new buffer except for a help buffer? 21:51:33 auto-commands, :au 21:58:26 note that help files set their filetype using a modeline (ft=help, at the bottom) 21:59:58 * deltab reads about tfelthgiron 22:20:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:25:53 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:26:18 -!- imode has joined. 22:32:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:34:09 <\oren\> do u know what C++11 means 22:34:14 <\oren\> it means std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move std::move 22:40:14 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:48:15 -!- boily has joined. 22:52:21 -!- brandonson has joined. 22:52:28 `relcome brandonson 22:52:31 ​brandonson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:59:50 <\oren\> boily: do u know how to use std::unique_ptr? 23:04:15 he\\oren\! 23:04:31 * boily hides under the first object he gets in his hands. 23:04:39 * boily damns the size of his coffee mug 23:05:01 what's a unique_ptr? 23:06:52 It's std::auto_ptr done right. 23:07:12 <\oren\> ok, it seems no matter what i do, unique_ptr wants to create type errors in template specializations 23:07:26 \oren\: what are you doing? 23:08:01 <\oren\> trying to initialize a unique_ptr member of a class B 23:08:18 <\oren\> my constructor looks like this 23:08:50 <\oren\> B(unique_ptr a) : a_(std::move(a)) {} 23:09:19 <\oren\> usr/bin/../lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/4.4.7/../../../../include/c++/4.4.7/bits/move.h:57:14: error: rvalue reference to type 'unique_ptr<[2 * ...]>' cannot bind to lvalue of type 'unique_ptr<[2 * ...]>' 23:09:19 \oren\: unique_ptr's constructors take pointers 23:10:20 oh wait 23:10:32 I misread, thought you were passing in an A 23:11:29 I have no idea then 23:11:38 As far as your line goes, it looks just fine (modulo oddly using std:: for move, but not for unique_ptr), so we must be missing some context here. 23:12:39 yeah 23:15:22 <\oren\> explode_cpp/explode.cpp:174:75: note: in instantiation of function template specialization 'std::move > &>' requested here 23:16:09 <\oren\> see this is why I hate C++ and avaid all its special features like the plague 23:16:23 <\oren\> because the errors are fucking nonsensical 23:16:47 I've been fiddling with C++17 recently, actually, and found it pretty pleasant going. Even if the errors are terrible. 23:17:42 If you want help you probably need a compilable example, though. 23:20:27 I mean, this works just fine: https://ideone.com/ZdvaE4 23:22:40 <\oren\> #include 23:22:40 <\oren\> #include 23:22:40 <\oren\> struct B { 23:22:41 <\oren\> }; 23:22:41 <\oren\> struct A : public B { double d; std::unique_ptr b; A(double d, std::unique_ptr b) : d(d), b(std::move(b)) {} 23:22:44 <\oren\> }; 23:23:09 <\oren\> this gives the same error 23:25:10 Not here it doesn't: https://ideone.com/lDkkv3 23:25:23 I don't know how you're calling that constructor. 23:25:52 <\oren\> clang -std=C++11 23:26:13 <\oren\> fuck, c++ 14? 23:26:21 <\oren\> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 23:26:54 It should be the same with C++11. 23:27:21 Not getting any errors in http://sprunge.us/GReZ 23:27:41 (5.0 is the only version of clang I've got installed.) 23:28:23 <\oren\> god fucking damn it why does gerg want me to use this shit 23:29:18 <\oren\> clang version 3.4.2 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot2-final) 23:29:18 <\oren\> Target: x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu 23:31:30 <\oren\> why can't I just use normal pointers 23:31:48 <\oren\> i know how to use them. I know how to fucking debug them 23:33:07 gerg? 23:34:14 <\oren\> guy's name is greg but I am mad at him 23:36:41 <\oren\> oh, i see 23:36:54 <\oren\> gerg wants me to use /home/gerg/bin/gcc 23:37:01 <\oren\> gah 23:51:03 gahg. 23:56:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUILTY CHICKEN). 2017-10-24: 00:08:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:20:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:32:49 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:35:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 00:57:21 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Quit: QUIT!!! OH NO!!). 00:59:26 -!- Guest15079 has joined. 00:59:54 -!- Guest15079 has changed nick to Bowserinator. 01:00:00 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Changing host). 01:00:00 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 01:01:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 01:03:38 -!- moony_ has joined. 01:04:23 -!- moony has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:05:26 -!- moony_ has changed nick to moonythedwarf. 01:05:38 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Changing host). 01:05:38 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:05:41 -!- moonythedwarf has changed nick to moony. 01:06:45 -!- lucas99897868 has joined. 01:07:38 f 01:09:13 -!- lucas99897868 has changed nick to lucas998978681. 01:10:02 -!- lucas998978681 has changed nick to gustavo. 01:10:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:10:31 -!- gustavo has changed nick to Guest84182. 01:11:44 -!- Guest84182 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:08 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:19:29 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:22:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:06:39 -!- imode has joined. 02:22:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:23:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:27:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:29:07 Will any DEFLATE implementation can implement "two-pass LZ77"? You would first do LZ77 normally, and then generate the Huffman tree, and then redo the LZ77 step but using the existing Huffman tree to determine which backreferences to make, and then do the rest of the compression normally (with a new Huffman tree). 02:30:47 how would you decompress that? 02:31:11 Usint any normal decompressor; the DEFLATE format isn't altered. 02:31:48 but how do you build the huffman tree? 02:32:09 In the ordinary way. 02:32:23 I must misunderstand then 02:32:40 (The first Huffman tree would not be saved; it is used only temporarily.) 02:33:52 Does that resolve your question, or is it something else that is unclear? 02:34:10 I will have to consider it later 02:36:49 My implementation of "Psycopathicteen Tile Compressor" does use multiple passes in a somewhat similar way to this in order to achieve better compression (but it doesn't use LZ77; it also uses a fixed Huffman table, but the mapping of Huffman codes to characters is not fixed and is defined in the header). 02:41:02 zzo38: *Psychopathicteen 02:45:36 oerjan: No, it is spelled "psycopathicteen" (I don't know why, but it is) 03:07:03 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:23:38 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:43:29 The block size in older versions of my PNG encoder (which uses a modified version of LodePNG) has specification of block size in bytes, but now I changed it so that it is also possible to specify the block size is scanlines as well if you want to (you can still specify in bytes too if you want to do). 03:45:23 -!- tromp has joined. 03:50:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:09:00 I'm thinking about mereology... and if there could be mereological programming... 04:12:19 that's merely logical 04:13:41 tdh 04:22:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:32:54 -!- klaha has joined. 04:39:59 -!- tromp has joined. 04:44:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:50:11 -!- lain____ has joined. 04:50:53 [wiki] [[DGOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53248 * Qpliu * (+7895) Created page with "DGOL (Directed Graph Oriented Language) is an imperative programming language in which all values are pointers to nodes within directed graphs. ==Lexical Structure== Linear w..." 04:51:04 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53249&oldid=53233 * Qpliu * (+11) /* D */ 05:10:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:13:54 -!- lain____ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:14:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:14:58 Because PNG uses DEFLATE which uses both LZ77 and Huffman, this makes it more difficult to properly optimize filter selection. With Huffman only, the filters could easily be corrected after the initial guess if there is a shorter way, but with LZ77 then it is possible some later scanlines may depend on this one, and changing the filter selection will mess it up. 05:16:26 I think the better way would be for the filter selection and DEFLATE to not be two separate pieces, but instead to be one piece that does both, in order to improve compression. 05:30:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:47:21 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:54:53 LodePNG has a "Shannon entropy" filter strategy. I tried implementing a variant which takes into account the previous scanline as well as the current one, and it does seem to work better, at least with one picture (the PNG logo picture). 05:59:30 (It doesn't work better on all pictures though, but for some pictures it does work better.) 06:00:15 -!- klaha has left ("Leaving"). 06:18:15 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:28:21 -!- tromp has joined. 06:32:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:43:39 I made this program to list the chunks in a PNG file: http://sprunge.us/VONI Some PNG files have the picture split in many IDAT chunks. If you want the total of all IDAT chunks, you might use a command such as: pnglist | awk '/IDAT/{x+=\$2}END{print x}' 06:43:43 Do you like this? 06:55:53 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:54 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:09:35 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:42:52 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:24 -!- tromp has joined. 08:20:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:25:53 -!- tromp has joined. 08:26:20 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 08:43:02 [wiki] [[Newbiefuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53250&oldid=46200 * Rdebath * (+468) Add an example program. 08:56:35 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:59:41 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:06:49 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 09:27:59 -!- lmrwcvmial has joined. 09:27:59 -!- lmrwcvmial has left. 09:34:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:55:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:57:46 hey, it wasn't supposed to be raining today :( 09:58:45 * oerjan dislikes when weather forecasters cannot predict the weather right now 10:13:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 11:05:14 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 11:35:55 -!- boily has joined. 11:48:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:25:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CAPTIVE CHICKEN). 12:48:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:46:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:06:34 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:36:39 oh no 15:37:00 Oh yes! 15:37:07 What's up, b_jonas 15:42:59 I'm trying to understand the NaN rules for floating point arithmetic instructions. If I understand correctly, x87, SSE2 and MMIX use three different rules: 15:44:07 when the input are two NaNs, 387 instructions write the NaN with the bigger significand (sign is complicated), SSE writes the FIRST input, and MMIX writes the SECOND input, 15:44:29 where in both cases the second input means the one that's negated in a subtraction or the divisor for a division. 15:44:34 Great. 15:45:01 Ugh, sounds painful 15:46:09 but this "first source" and "second source" is so complicated that I might have just swapped them somewhere 15:57:28 wtf. who invented the SSE floating point min and max operations? isn't it enough that the add and multiply aren't commutative, do we need a non-commutative max and min too? 15:58:56 I seem to remember that a design goal for MIX was to not be that similar to any other architecture but be sort of similar to all the current ones, does that also apply to MMIX 16:07:24 in case it matters, one of the ARM extensions have yet another rule for operations on two NaN inputs. I don't know the details, ARM is complicated. 16:16:08 -!- augur has joined. 16:17:59 `? algorithm 16:18:00 Algorithms (derived from the medieval "algorisms") are popular sayings by former president Al Gore, except for God's Algorithm which was invented by a Google computer cluster. 16:20:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:51:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:56:53 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:57:13 -!- MDude has joined. 16:58:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:09:44 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:12:04 david_werecat.atom: points 0.29, score 19.86, rank 19/47 (+6) 17:12:50 david_werecat.atom: points 1.86, score 21.84, rank 16/47 (+3) 17:13:07 david_werecat.atom: points 0.29, score 19.86, rank 19/47 (-3) 17:27:27 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53251&oldid=50705 * FTcode * (-285) Added full Hello World program. 17:29:41 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53252&oldid=53251 * FTcode * (+316) /* "Hello, World!" */ 17:34:46 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53253&oldid=53252 * FTcode * (+7) 17:38:06 b_jonas: In case you have any interest, now I did write a program in Farbfeld Utilities for reading raw true colour pictures (called "rgbff"). 17:39:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * JeffryThunderStrike * New user account 17:40:51 zzo38: let me see 17:40:55 <\oren\> I checked soemthing in and the build did not break. hurray 17:41:16 <\oren\> i don't have to revert the revert and then fix it 17:42:21 zzo38: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/artifact/b00272245f7f6236 but is there a manual? and why do I want this instead of ImageMagick's or ffmpeg's various convenient raw image input modes? 17:43:29 Of course there is a document: http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/wiki?name=ffrgb 17:43:56 Later I will add the encoder as well, and could also add additional options such as XY format. 17:44:15 (And others, if you think there is something else missing, you can suggest it.) 17:44:28 zzo38: ah, right, it says "decoder" so it's about rgbff 17:44:46 <\oren\> what i kind of want is a diff editor 17:45:05 b_jonas: Yes. 17:45:29 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53254&oldid=53246 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+237) /* Introductions */ 17:45:45 <\oren\> like, that would take a patch file and allow you to edit the resultant seamlessly without affecting the original file 17:45:51 zzo38: this can work, though the options are easy to mess up 17:46:44 zzo38: and it would be nice if you supported (1) reading raw images with premultiplied alpha (2) images with multiple separate planes, so eg. all red pixels first, then all green pixels, then all blue pixels 17:47:23 Thank you, yes, I do intend I can add those features too later. 17:49:02 zzo38: which program was it that can transform colors (pixelwise) with an 5x4 affine transformation matrix (fixed for the image, given as argument)? 17:49:16 I think there was such a program in ff-utils, and if there isn't, there should be 17:50:04 Not sure what you mean; is it ff-matrix? 17:50:20 But, whatever it is you mean, I suppose, yes, there should be. 17:50:23 <\oren\> there should be a way to apply arbitrary image transformations to an X-window 17:51:07 zzo38: oh, that one doesn't seem to be documented. let me read it. 17:51:48 Write the documentation yourself if you want to; if not, I may write the document later. 17:52:14 (Although it supports only 4x4 and not 5x4; perhaps I should fix that) 17:53:52 anyway, that could be useful to decode a raw image where the alpha channel is stored negated (as transparentness rather than opaqueness), or grayscale images with the intensity stored negated, or decoding YUV444 images (but that one only once you support plane-interlaced rather than pixel-interlaced in rgbff) 17:54:15 zzo38: yes, you should definitely support affine transformation in that rather than just linear 17:55:01 it has to be done together because pixel values are clamped (to between 0 and (2<<16)-1) 17:56:13 in general, one thing I don't like in ff-utils is that they usually accept nonsensical command-line arguments without an error message, so it's hard to find such mistakes in usage 17:56:32 I mean syntactically nonsensical arguments 17:57:00 like passing a non-numeric string when a number is expected etc 17:57:10 passing extra arguments for utilities that take a fixed number of arguments 17:57:22 Yes, that is correct. (Although, if you simply want to negate channels, ff-swizzle is already capable of doing that.) 17:57:46 this isn't a strict requirements, programs are still usable that way, but still 17:58:06 -!- augur has joined. 17:59:47 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53255&oldid=37584 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+208) 18:00:22 I think I do not have time to fix anything now because I may have to leave soon, but on Friday I should have time to fix ff-matrix to do that, to fix rgbff, and so on. 18:02:15 Remember the wiki can be written by anyone, and so can the tickets, in case you want to do so (but it isn't mandatory; you don't have to if you don't want to do). 18:10:39 luckily the coefficients as command-line arguments for ff-matrix are in the right majorness that you can just extend it to an affine matrix by appending four extra arguments to the end 18:10:57 otherwise it would have been an ugly variable interpretation of the arguments 18:11:34 Yes, that is good. 18:12:44 so you just have to extend param to size 20 here (you're relying on the rule of global variables getting zero-bit-initialized here, right? you could just add a ={0} to make the initialization explicit) 18:13:09 and add a term +param[i+16] to the computation formula in process 18:13:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:14:53 zzo38: wait, is the outconv function incorrect? I think that can give you strange results (and technically also undefined behavior) if the pixel[i]*65535.0 overflows the domain of int 18:15:23 you can't rely on how casting double to int works in the overflowing case in a C program 18:16:00 -!- imode has joined. 18:18:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:20:05 zzo38: try something like static inline void outconv(void) { double v; int i,r; for (i=0;i<4;i++) { v=pixel[i]*65535.0; r=v<0.0?0:v>65535.0?65535:(int)rint(v); buf[i<<1]=r>>8; buf[(i<<1)+1]=r; } } 18:46:22 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53256&oldid=53253 * FTcode * (+91) added author 18:49:38 [wiki] [[Symbolic Python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53257&oldid=53256 * FTcode * (-2) /* "Hello, World!" */ 18:53:52 there is a deep connection between fractran and linear logic. 18:56:28 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:22:56 -!- fungot has joined. 20:16:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Andy * New user account 20:34:34 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53258&oldid=53255 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+631) /* Interpreter */ 20:35:08 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53259&oldid=53258 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+90) 20:35:21 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53260&oldid=53259 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+1) /* Interpreter */ 20:35:41 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:38:09 -!- brandonson has joined. 20:51:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:02 <\oren\> aaaaaa i have meetings all day and can't do any REAL work 21:38:41 Are meetings not real work? 21:38:56 If so you should scrap your meetings. 21:39:16 ,o0(Dilbert) 21:44:24 -!- sdhand has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in). 22:01:33 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:02:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:37:02 -!- sleffy has joined. 22:40:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:52:00 -!- erkin has joined. 23:52:32 -!- boily has joined. 23:56:19 helloily 23:56:28 QUINTHELLOPIA! 2017-10-25: 00:12:02 whats the best joke of today 00:23:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:00 * boily searches for the today best joke... 00:32:58 probably not the best, but here goes nothing: 00:33:18 Nice one. 00:33:27 How come nobody at the king's table laughed when he farted? Because noble gases don't cause reactions. 00:33:45 lol 00:33:46 * boily realises he joked without meaning it. I oerjaned. 00:37:00 `? password 00:37:02 The password of the month is revolutionary 00:44:20 `ysacbell (67) 00:44:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ysacbell: not found 00:49:14 ah c'mon... 00:49:21 `ysaclist (67) 00:49:23 ysaclist (67): boily shachaf 01:17:03 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:24:24 `dowg password 01:24:35 11206:2017-10-01 learn The password of the month is revolutionary \ 11180:2017-09-02 learn The password of the month is chanterelles \ 11164:2017-08-22 slwd password//s, word, month, \ 11155:2017-08-16 learn The password of the word is unacceptably delayed \ 11081:2017-07-11 learn The password o 01:45:29 -!- moonythedwarf has joined. 01:59:27 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:05:38 -!- jix has joined. 02:06:01 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:21:45 -!- imode has joined. 02:22:55 -!- sleffy has joined. 02:24:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PERCOLATING CHICKEN). 02:57:19 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 03:14:25 -!- moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:09:52 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:15:28 -!- APic has joined. 05:43:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:14 -!- augur has joined. 06:54:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:02:37 -!- tellstogo has joined. 07:14:49 -!- tellstogo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:26:09 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:27:40 -!- MDude has joined. 07:35:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:38:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:40:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:04:45 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:08:14 -!- Cale has joined. 08:48:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:37:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:43:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:52:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:08:17 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:31:51 -!- augur has joined. 10:37:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:42:42 -!- boily has joined. 12:00:16 fungot: nostril. 12:00:16 boily: mr president, commissioner, we have been told that all this will lie at the very moment when the decision is justified, and so on. 12:00:23 ^styles 12:00:27 ^style 12:00:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 12:00:41 ^style fungot 12:00:41 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 12:00:46 fungot: nostril? 12:00:46 boily: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there that the ep peaked at 2 ' 12:00:59 ouch 12:01:19 b_jellonas. all hail the Avril Airbus! 12:01:41 (especially neon, which is the most noble of them) 12:08:46 neon airbus? 12:14:36 boily: no. I mean re "Because noble gases don't cause reactions." 12:15:30 hue hue hue :D 12:24:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SLATE CHICKEN). 12:58:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:22:34 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:40:25 -!- fungot has joined. 14:00:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:33:09 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.). 14:35:08 -!- grumble has joined. 14:45:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:46:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:54:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:57:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:11:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:15:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:39:06 I've been thinking about the TCness of Countercall 15:39:16 I was actually suspecting it wasn't until I remembered that it supports negative numbers 15:39:30 is there any way to read an arbitrarily large negative number without destroying information, though? 15:42:01 that's a new esolang by you, I don't think I've seen that 15:42:13 right 15:42:28 I'm getting a better idea of where the edge of TCness is nowadays 15:42:32 and Countercall is very close to it 15:45:43 here's a totally different question. for each chapter of the ed. Iványi, "Informatical algorithms" book, what's the latest available version and the latest available English version among the drafts found in the following directories on the web: 15:45:48 http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Elektronikus/Informatikai/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Informatikai-Konyvtar/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/AlgofInf-Vol1-HTML/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/AlgofInf-Vol2-HTML/ http://compalg.inf.elte.hu/~tony/Oktatas/FirstExpert/ http://real.mtak.hu/21565/ http://real.mtak.hu/20746/ 15:46:27 Also, what are all the different editions of the paper books, and how are chapters rearranged between them? 15:47:43 is this something you expect me to know off by heart? :-D 15:47:48 It's confusing because it seems like the book was originally published in two volumes, but split according to which chapters were completed first, and then the chapters got rearranged in later editions and the English translation, plus now it has a third volume by a different publisher. 15:48:16 ais523: no, it's a research question that probably I'll have to figure out myself, and it's also not a question specifically for just you. 15:50:03 I don't expect anyone to know it by heart 16:04:06 -!- puckipedia has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 16:04:17 -!- puckipedia has joined. 16:28:25 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53261&oldid=53260 * StellatedHexahedron * (+208) /* Interpreter */ 16:50:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:50:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:07:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:13:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:20:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: trying to teach my new window manager how Konversation works). 17:20:48 [wiki] [[Symball]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53262&oldid=45269 * StellatedHexahedron * (+6) fixed broken links 17:20:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:39:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:44:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:57:20 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:24:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: reboot). 18:29:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:35:30 -!- sdhand has joined. 18:35:50 -!- sdhand has quit (Changing host). 18:35:50 -!- sdhand has joined. 19:06:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: restarting my client). 19:06:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:09:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:12:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:12:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 19:12:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 19:27:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:32:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:57:13 -!- imode has joined. 20:01:43 -!- xkapastel has joined. 20:12:16 -!- augur has joined. 20:24:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:36:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:46:24 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 21:12:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:24:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:43:03 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC http://znc.in). 21:43:38 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 21:44:25 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:04 -!- MDude has joined. 21:51:02 -!- pdxleif has joined. 22:02:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:23:40 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53263&oldid=53243 * Rdebath * (-1706) 22:25:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:41:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 22:43:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:58:24 -!- augur has joined. 23:01:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:02:32 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:41 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 23:54:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2017-10-26: 00:29:21 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:16:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:22:13 [wiki] [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53264&oldid=50034 * R.e.s. * (+319) /* Self BCT */ Fix typos and clarify the generalisation 01:59:15 Brian Cantwell Smith is really cool. 01:59:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USF1H70bRl0 01:59:55 i,i bcs523 02:00:06 I haven't figured out the relevance to esoteric languages yet but I'm sure its there 03:19:43 -!- sleffy has joined. 03:21:15 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:47:02 -!- dingbat has joined. 04:47:55 [wiki] [[Logical/Interpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53265 * David.werecat * (+31023) Added open source logical interpreter 04:49:51 [wiki] [[Logical]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53266&oldid=40509 * David.werecat * (+60) /* External resources */ Linked to new interpreter 05:23:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:06:57 does anyone know of a windows tool that can resize and compress every image in a folder and also maybe convert rotation and cropping metadata into actually rotating and cropping the real image data? 06:07:13 something a true beginner could use 06:07:55 imagemagick can do some fancy stuff, but is not really for beginners 06:08:19 but if I need to do bulk image manipulation, I use imagemagick + bash 06:10:26 same 06:11:27 but that solution wont fly with my mom, who can barely figure out a seven step process using only gui interfaces 06:15:22 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: world). 06:15:51 -!- grumble has joined. 06:15:57 ah, that's a slightly different case 06:16:25 no idea then 06:22:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:59:50 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:11:14 quintopia: resize and compress as in how. batch resizing? 07:12:26 quintopia: if so, are you always resizing to some percentage or resolution? 07:12:54 you could grab a bin of imagemagick and set up a batch script. "copy all your images into this folder, click this icon." 07:49:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:17:22 -!- tromp has joined. 09:37:15 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:39:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:39:43 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: "In other words, whenever one attempts to comb a hairy ball flat, there will always be at least one tuft of hair at one point on the ball." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball_theorem). 09:40:05 -!- grumble has joined. 09:48:07 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:01:22 -!- tromp has joined. 10:37:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:13:58 quintopia: a moment 11:14:26 quintopia: Irfanview is a gui program for viewing images on windows, homepage http://www.irfanview.com/ 11:14:34 and it has a dialog for bulk image resizing reencoding 11:15:08 or at least I think it has... let me check 11:15:16 definitely has a bulk reencoding dialog 11:15:21 I never really used it 11:15:54 I'm not sure if it has batch resize 11:16:12 one of the drawbacks of that software is that I can never remember how to spell its name 11:16:46 yes, it can do bulk resize 11:18:03 of course, the hard part in bulk resizing images is determining the quality settings for lossless encode 11:19:19 -!- augur has joined. 11:19:58 an alternative is to upload the images to facebook or twitter to automatically reencode everything in crappy quality, or to whatever these photo sharing sites are like instagram or google photos that reencode photos in good quality, 11:20:08 but the drawback of that is that you can't easily mass download the reencoded photos 11:21:05 and yes, the irfanview batch reencode can both resize and rotate images 11:25:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:34:47 -!- boily has joined. 11:54:21 boily: FWIW, I think Google Photos has sort of a mass-download option -- you can ask it for an album (or a selection) as a .zip. Presumably it's the re-encoded/resized versions, since that's what they store if you're not using the "original size" mode. 11:54:35 ... 11:54:39 b_jonas: ^. 11:54:48 I'm bad with tab completion, it seems. 11:55:13 fizziello. there's an original size mode? 11:56:16 boily: Yes, but it will count towards your storage quota. (Except if you have... I'm not sure if it was Pixel or Pixel 2. One of those, or both, get original-size photos for free.) 11:56:24 quintopia: ^ 11:56:43 fizzie: can you download in whatever size you want, as opposed to the largest version stored? 11:57:08 b_jonas: I don't think you can specify that, unfortunately. 11:57:45 boily: https://support.google.com/photos/answer/6220791?hl=en "Limited free storage that uses storage in your Google Account" "Free unlimited storage for Pixel and Pixel 2 users" apparently both of them. 11:57:46 what was the third big photo sharing site beside Instagram and Google Photos? 11:58:00 Flickr? 11:58:02 not Picasa, right? that's just the precursor of Google Photos I think 11:59:14 flickr? possibly. isn't that just a cat cheesburger gif sharing site? maybe I'm confusing it with some other site or it's both 11:59:49 No, it's actually slightly more photographer-oriented than Google Photos, at least IMO. 11:59:50 yes, looking it up, it is Flickr 12:00:01 although there could be more sites I'm missing here 12:00:02 Not quite as photography-oriented as 500px. 12:00:24 Imgur is the big cat gif sharing site, I think. 12:01:21 imgur is the reddit sharing site. 12:01:30 ah 12:01:40 Picasa is dead, dead again, and very dead :( 12:02:47 and the cat gif sharing site I was thinking of is tumblr 12:03:17 but yes, imgur is such as well 12:04:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:05:08 (The Pixel / Pixel 2 storage offer is even more complicated. It's free-forever for photos uploaded from a Pixel, and "original quality" is the only option you have. From Pixel 2, it's free-until-jan-16-2021 from Pixel 2, and you can choose normally between "high quality" and "original quality".) 12:07:01 "forever" 12:07:20 what's this pixel thing? 12:16:52 it's the new iPhone from Alphabet. 12:24:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MELODIC CHICKEN). 13:19:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:22:10 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 13:33:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Noirotm * New user account 13:36:50 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53267&oldid=53254 * Noirotm * (+262) Add introduction 13:58:41 [wiki] [[Fish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53268&oldid=52669 * Noirotm * (+231) Add link to the fishr interpreter 14:00:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:48:01 -!- Remavas has joined. 14:59:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:04:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:32:51 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:41:37 -!- erkin has joined. 15:50:44 -!- fungot has joined. 16:13:07 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:54 -!- Remavas has joined. 16:44:19 -!- augur has joined. 16:49:46 -!- furozo has joined. 16:55:03 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:56:03 -!- erkin has joined. 17:06:38 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:23:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:25:40 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:29:29 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 17:32:05 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:38:46 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:14 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined. 18:00:15 -!- Remavas-3 has joined. 18:02:57 -!- Remavas-Hex has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:08:03 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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Taneb invented them to live inside his string diagrams, but they prefer to hover around pinheads and feed on angels. 00:12:30 helloochaf. considering that a fountain pen is called a "thousand year pen" in Chinese, and that gas is around 1.13 CAD/litre, then I'm guessing around 5 inches, give or take. 00:12:52 boily: I assume any pen thrown into a fountain becomes a fountain pen? 00:13:06 naturally. 00:13:15 it may tint the fountain water a bit, though. 00:13:35 unnoticeqbly 00:13:36 or quite a lot, if it's Noodler's Baystate Blue. 00:13:40 whoa, 1.13 CAD/litre is ~3.33 USD/gal 00:13:44 that's p. cheap 00:13:53 though still not as cheap as the US 00:13:58 Except CA 00:14:07 ? 00:14:26 quintopia: fountain pen ink is colourfully colourful hth 00:14:27 California tends to have rather pricy gas. 00:14:39 Here in NYC petrol is much cheaper than in the SF area. 00:14:53 But even in the SF area I think it's cheaper than what boily said. 00:15:53 Or at least it seemed cheaper based on a small sample. 00:16:02 I'd like petrol to be much more expensive. 00:16:08 \$8/gal? \$15/gal? 00:16:34 Ah, looks like CA had fairly substantial drops in gas prices in recent years relative to the rest of the country. 00:17:26 Courtesy of new refinery capacity it seems? 00:17:47 What would you like petrol prices to be? 00:18:00 i only collect cards 00:18:10 I'm not sure the *figure*, but I'd like for it to be priced to include the externalities. 00:18:17 Which are substantial. 00:18:22 How do you do that? 00:18:29 agreed 00:18:31 Taxes, of course. 00:18:40 Sure, but how? 00:18:46 taxes that are used to fund epa efforts 00:19:17 well first you stage a successful coup d'etat a la Luttwak 00:19:25 Determine roughly the impact caused by the pollution, as well as the influence on urban development from vehicles, and tax accordingly? 00:19:34 then you just declare a tax 00:19:35 OK, what's the impact? 00:19:49 I don't know. You'd need a study to really accurately measure this. 00:19:50 Also I think the latter should maybe be a road tax or something instead of a petrol tax? 00:19:55 Perhaps. 00:20:08 You can reduce traffic jams too by taxing actual road usage. 00:20:19 why tax electric vehicales who are already helping? 00:20:35 Helping what? Road congestion? 00:20:41 Because private auto ownership has a negative effect 00:20:53 helping move away from petrol usage 00:21:11 In the US, nobody's even bothered trying to accurately measure this stuff. Gas taxes here aren't to incentivize not-driving or anything, they're an attempt to pay for the upkeep of roads and that's all. 00:21:23 quintopia: Sure, and they wouldn't pay gas taxes in this scheme. 00:21:33 we should incentivise commercial trucks switching to electric somehow 00:21:48 What about the separate problem of oil being non-renewable? Should that be treated as an externality or should markets just deal with it? 00:21:50 oh i see 00:22:00 youre doing both gas and road tax 00:22:01 But, the mere impact of private automobile use is quite significant. 00:22:26 shachaf: I suspect in this setup, it'd end up being a moot question. 00:22:39 Well, it's a more general question about non-renewable resources. 00:22:54 If we priced gas to include the external cost caused by its pollution, I can't imagine it'd remain popular for long. 00:23:06 True. 00:23:12 i,i "it" being the government 00:23:13 I'm unclear on that. 00:23:45 In practice people are going to burn most of the oil within, I don't know, a hundred years? Probably less? However long it takes for prices to get high enough that people don't drive. 00:23:53 We're just burning it up, man. 00:23:58 And then we won't have any left to eat. 00:24:49 Of course, if you think it's going to be valuable for other uses later, you can speculate, and buy a bunch now and sell it later when prices get higher. 00:25:03 But it'll probably be a long time, maybe longer than the lifetime of a reasonable speculator? 00:25:20 So what does that mean? Are markets doing the "right thing"? 00:26:01 People are effectively selling oil/whatever for roughly the cost it takes to extract it. That cost seems kind of accidental, and too low, to me. 00:26:01 To my knowledge, most petroleum-derived stuff is only *cheapest* that way, not *unpractical* via other production methods. 00:26:36 If so, it's probably not that big of a deal if we're out? 00:27:15 I mean, it still seems a bit of an example of an unefficient market because nobody's paying the real cost of stuff, but... 00:28:43 But e.g. for fertilizer, oil is only used *at all* because it's a convenient source of hydrogen. 00:29:31 Right, http://www.env-econ.net/2013/12/env-econ-101-hotellings-rule-.html 00:29:42 There are (naturally) many, many ways of acquiring hydrogen. 00:30:38 I like hydrogen. 00:30:45 Do you like this? 00:31:00 Electrolysis of water is probably the worst case there, and even *now* it's actually used for some commercial ammonia production. 00:31:14 (mostly near hydroelectric plants with excess capacity) 00:31:38 Hydrogen's pretty useful, yeah. 00:32:03 Bit of a crap fuel, but it's a great element. 00:51:00 -!- xkapastel has joined. 00:58:26 `5 w 00:58:32 1/3:time cube//EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (alrea 00:59:31 `n 00:59:31 2/3:dy wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools. \ heh//heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. \ `sled//`sled // \ string diagram//String diagrams would be useful in category theory, except they're unreadable due to being curled up in tiny dimensions. Taneb invented them anyhow. \ roborosewater 00:59:52 `n 00:59:52 3/3://RoboRosewater is generating random Magic: the Gathering cards, see https://mobile.twitter.com/roborosewater 01:00:12 `? tanebvention 01:00:13 Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex. 01:00:23 Italian? 01:19:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:31:21 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:33:53 boily: https://twitter.com/Ngevd/status/918012736721883137 hth 01:46:43 tdh. t. 02:08:17 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:27:04 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:29:56 nooooooo! fungooooooooot! 02:30:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ANGEL CHICKEN). 02:38:41 RIP 02:53:22 -!- fungot has joined. 03:03:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:16:38 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 05:12:27 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:19 -!- trn has joined. 05:35:35 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:51:37 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:51:43 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:09:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:10:26 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:11:41 -!- trn has joined. 06:16:04 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:21:27 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:42:30 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 06:45:31 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:09:38 -!- imode has joined. 07:13:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 07:26:02 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:32:40 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:36:49 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 08:00:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:56 -!- augur has joined. 08:44:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:50:21 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:36:18 -!- idris-bot has joined. 09:44:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:45:50 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:50:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:35:32 -!- boily has joined. 11:44:04 fungot: helloooooooooooooooo! 11:44:04 boily: " so that the text by overprinting ' _____' on top. ve old input from somewhere. i've only skimmed the paper as he spoke, ' is the fnord" 11:44:20 fungot: please don't void me with a fnord hth 11:44:21 boily: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xx, xxx, xxxx, xxxxx, xxxxxx, xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx 11:44:33 eek D: 11:51:19 -!- atslash has joined. 12:11:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:25:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: QUEUE CHICKEN). 12:49:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:16 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:51:46 huh? 13:51:52 ^style xx 13:51:52 Not found. 13:52:02 ooooh 13:52:04 hahah 13:52:20 ^style 13:52:20 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:52:27 ... makes sense 13:55:18 ^bf >++++++++++[>++++++++++++>+<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:18 x.xx.xxx.xxxx.xxxxx.xxxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ... 13:55:44 ^bf >++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>++++<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:44                    ... 13:55:51 ^bf >++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>++++<<-]+[[<+>->.<]>>.<<<[>+<-]>+] 13:55:51 x xx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ... 14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:03:47 [wiki] [[Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53270&oldid=37586 * JeffryThunderStrike * (+340) 14:05:31 [wiki] [[Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53271&oldid=53270 * JeffryThunderStrike * (-6) 14:06:22 [wiki] [[Talk:Switchy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53272&oldid=53261 * JeffryThunderStrike * (-60) 14:18:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 14:25:25 -!- Cale has joined. 14:27:49 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:28:22 -!- tromp has joined. 15:01:15 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:01:30 -!- augur has joined. 15:05:01 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:05:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:21:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:39:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:45:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:34:38 <\oren\> oh good, meeting with greg today 17:35:16 <\oren\> he can teach me more of the wunderbar C++1x features 18:00:16 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:23:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 18:36:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:45:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:46:04 -!- augur has joined. 18:50:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:02:10 -!- erkin has joined. 19:21:30 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:28:05 * impomatic is heading to the Computer Museum in Cambridge tomorrow. 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 19:32:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:38:45 -!- imode has joined. 19:40:27 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 20:08:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:10:25 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 20:12:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:12:34 -!- imode has joined. 20:26:45 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:28:40 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:41:50 impomatic, oh wow, that's a really cool place! And not too far from me as it happens 20:42:11 I went a couple of months ago, my friends had to tear me away from a BBC Basic 20:53:49 I've been to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View 20:56:17 Taneb: they have a ZX Spectrum event tomorrow to celebrate 35 years. 20:57:10 I'd love to go to the museum in Mountain View. 20:57:37 impomatic, oh, cool! 20:57:39 You should! 20:57:55 shachaf: bit of a long trip for me! 20:58:27 imo do it hth 20:58:44 I was wondering if they have any Core War stuff in their collection though. Since they used to be in Boston (or inherited the collection from the Boston museum) 21:00:23 impomatic, are you based in Cambridge? 21:01:04 No, Lincolnshire. It's a 3 hour trip on the train. 21:01:21 Aaaaaah, I see! 21:01:22 Plus a 6 mile walk at 4am to get to the train station :-O 21:01:48 Oh wow, dedication 21:02:36 I just have to cycle for quarter of an hour 21:03:56 Just so I can get to Cambridge by 8am. There's a train station 1/2 a mile away, but I'd arrive 3 hours later if I caught the train from there. 21:05:34 ...If I go tomorrow and see you, I'll have met face-to-face two people here, both of whose nicks begin with "i" 21:06:10 I'll be in at least the right country to meet izabera at New Years, if I want to continue this trend, I guess 21:08:57 But countries tend to be quite big, really 21:23:11 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:24:02 -!- atrapado_ has joined. 21:42:12 Well if you go, I'll be the one wearing a dark red shirt :-) 21:50:25 -!- augur has joined. 22:02:17 -!- atrapado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:39:44 I've been in both, and the Mountain View one is fancier, but the Cambridge one has more personality. 22:40:47 (Do I remember right that the Cambridge one is the one in the sort of a shed?) 22:41:28 (yeah) 22:41:34 (great fun when it's raining) 22:42:15 Taneb: There was a place in London with a classroom's worth of BBC Micros, but I think it was a temporary thing. 22:43:09 fizzie, there's a place in Cambridge with that as a permanent thing ;) 22:43:17 Keep meaning to buy my own 22:44:26 https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2017/04/02/a-room-full-of-bbc-microcomputers-comes-to-east-london/ there was also a bunch of other things 22:55:10 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:02:37 -!- boily has joined. 23:25:43 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53273 * B jonas * (+10024) Created page with "'''Olvasható''' (also sometimes called '''Olvashato''' is a general purpose toy language created by [[User:b_jonas|b_jonas]]. The olvasható source is compiled to a Prolog p..." 23:30:11 helloily 23:30:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:34:19 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:34:58 fungot: nostril. 23:39:15 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53274&oldid=53273 * B jonas * (+276) 23:40:18 b_jonas: b_jellonas. you have an unbalanced parenthesis hth 23:40:47 I have WildMidi in my computer, and some music it won't play so good. But, I think I figure out why it might be. I looked in the wildmidi.cfg, and, not all of the numbers 0 to 127 are listed under bank 0. Is that why it doesn't work? I looked in that directory, and it has only the files listed there; not the rest of them. How to obtain the rest of the files, and will this fix it if so? 23:41:38 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:43:53 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 2017-10-28: 00:02:26 -!- sleffy has joined. 00:22:20 `? quintopia 00:22:22 quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. He is flooded by thundercats and thunderdogs. He is the temporal antipode of boily despite living on the same continent. 00:23:51 -!- Bowserinator has changed nick to Evilinator. 00:27:16 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53275&oldid=53274 * B jonas * (+3363) 00:47:34 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53276&oldid=53275 * B jonas * (+792) 00:48:39 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53277&oldid=53249 * B jonas * (+17) 00:49:01 [wiki] [[Olvashato]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53278 * B jonas * (+24) Redirected page to [[Olvasható]] 00:52:27 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53279&oldid=53276 * B jonas * (+42) /* Compiler */ 00:53:04 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53280&oldid=53279 * B jonas * (+3) /* Links */ 00:56:04 boily: what do you miss most about when you were 20 01:01:09 eeeeeh... 01:01:14 * boily thinks 01:14:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ARMY CHICKEN). 01:34:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:42:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:58:27 How to acquire the rest of the GUS patch files for use with WildMIDI? 02:27:47 I do not have the file to test the interlacing and premultiplied alpha suggested at http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/info/31d44cd6c82733eb 02:34:02 -!- xkapastel has joined. 02:53:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:56:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:58:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:15:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:16:19 -!- augur has joined. 03:25:22 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:18:14 -!- Muhammedlee has joined. 04:23:15 -!- Muhammedlee has left. 04:59:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:06:05 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:07:49 -!- alercah has joined. 05:11:44 -!- imode has joined. 05:24:13 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:26:56 Brian Cantwell Smith says that every computation has both a meaning and mechanical realization. 05:27:00 [wiki] [[Insignificant]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53281 * Doesthiswork * (+659) Created page with "Computing is best understood as a dialectical interplay of meaning and mechanism. Brian Cantwell Smith [http://www.ageofsignificance.org/aos/en/aos-v1c0.html..." 05:45:02 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:57:30 -!- xkapastel has joined. 06:02:42 -!- augur has joined. 06:06:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:07:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:25:28 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:24:20 -!- augur has joined. 07:29:01 -!- Hooloovo0 has changed nick to HoolooBOO. 07:34:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:43:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:45:57 -!- erkin has joined. 07:45:57 -!- erkin has quit (Client Quit). 07:53:10 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/a/2l5Fm 07:56:07 -!- augur has joined. 08:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:12:10 -!- augur has joined. 08:56:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:39:37 -!- augur has joined. 09:44:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:17:03 hmm, https://xkcd.com/1906/ ... https://xkcd.com/1908/ ... I think I'm seeing a pattern here. 10:18:28 and imgur should really distinguish videos from other pictures in the URI 10:18:44 s/other// 10:37:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:44:17 of course sometimes a pattern is just a lazy cartoonist. http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/12149 http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/12155 10:45:44 that's only 6 comics later, definitely part of the same series 11:00:07 I accuse her of laziness because only one panel is actually new... 11:00:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:01:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:01:31 OTOH this is better than another "I have no good comic idea today so let's make a comic about comic ideas" comic. 11:09:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:25:03 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:07:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:55:19 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:58:47 [wiki] [[Brainwang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53282 * Rdebath * (+5687) Is my assertion correct? 13:37:33 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:51:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:57:25 -!- augur has joined. 14:00:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:02:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:03:27 -!- fungot has joined. 14:06:14 -!- boily has joined. 14:18:05 `5 w 14:18:10 1/3:false//false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. \ markdown//The markdown flavor of the day is nutella. \ turkey//Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In th 14:18:25 -!- int-e has left ("ABSENTMINDED CHICKEN"). 14:18:25 -!- int-e has joined. 14:28:07 wouldn't that be the Hungry-Ostrich not just plain Ostrich? 14:33:16 `n 14:33:17 2/3:e 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. \ misspellings of croissant//misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ welcome//Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: `n 14:33:19 3/3:esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 14:56:53 shish kebab goes well with feather dusters 15:05:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:17:06 int-ello. eh? 15:18:03 Soon you'll be wearing my sword like a shish kebab! / First you better stop waving it about like a feather duster. 15:21:11 that doesn't rhyme tdnh 15:21:35 it's not supposed to rhyme 15:21:55 Hasn't any of you heathens played Monkey Island, I'm disappointed. :P 15:23:35 I played Monkey Island 3, where thee insults have to rhyme. 15:23:38 the 15:23:49 I also played the others but I think rhyming is better. 15:23:56 I see. 16:00:34 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53283&oldid=52265 * Hakatashi * (+6) /* Fugue */ Update hello world source URL 16:10:53 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:18:59 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:17 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:25:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 16:27:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:43:37 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:16:37 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53284&oldid=53280 * Zzo38 * (+1) 17:19:21 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53285&oldid=53284 * Zzo38 * (+6) 17:23:42 -!- sleffy has joined. 17:24:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 17:40:09 -!- netcatkit has joined. 17:53:47 -!- netcatkit has quit. 17:57:49 -!- augur has joined. 18:02:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:26:12 One part of one computer game I was make up, is, if you push 0 to call the operator, then instead is calling the operetta by mistake. They are playing John Philip Sousa's "Liberty Bell March". 18:27:33 Why not play a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta? 18:29:16 After you complete the game, the final screen is the operetta house and the music can be heard from the outside; that is when your wing is fixed, so unlike the other screens in this game, this screen represents a vertical view of the sky on top and ground on the bottom. 18:29:35 (I mean the final credit screen) 18:29:59 Maybe I could put a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta, but I did not think of that, for one thing. 18:32:41 Maybe that will be the sequel of the game. 19:33:24 -!- augur has joined. 19:50:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:53:06 -!- augur has joined. 20:00:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:02:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:06:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:17 -!- augur has joined. 20:21:02 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53286&oldid=51718 * Osmarks * (+169) 20:21:17 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53287&oldid=53286 * Osmarks * (+0) 20:32:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:24 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53288&oldid=53287 * Osmarks * (+532) 20:33:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:34:18 -!- augur has joined. 20:38:27 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53289&oldid=53288 * Osmarks * (+271) 20:41:32 -!- imode has joined. 20:43:46 -!- xkapastel has joined. 20:45:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:58:05 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:39 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53290&oldid=53289 * Osmarks * (+1437) 21:17:45 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53291&oldid=53290 * Osmarks * (+273) 21:19:04 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53292&oldid=53291 * Osmarks * (-6) 21:19:20 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53293&oldid=53292 * Osmarks * (-6) /* Example Programs */ 21:23:43 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 21:27:12 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53294&oldid=53293 * Osmarks * (+171) 21:28:54 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53295&oldid=53294 * Osmarks * (+66) 21:29:14 [wiki] [[Turi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53296&oldid=53295 * Osmarks * (-11) Fix 21:29:32 -!- augur has joined. 21:33:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:36:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:47:47 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 21:55:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:40 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53297&oldid=53296 * Osmarks * (+7) /* Example Programs */ 21:58:25 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53298&oldid=53297 * Osmarks * (+38) /* Example Programs */ 21:58:59 -!- MrBusiness3 has joined. 22:00:37 -!- MrBismuth has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:06:03 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:04 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53299&oldid=53298 * Osmarks * (-42) 22:29:02 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53300&oldid=53285 * B jonas * (+527) 22:31:02 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53301&oldid=53299 * Osmarks * (+397) 22:32:15 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53302&oldid=53301 * Osmarks * (+166) Unbreak broken table 22:32:59 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53303&oldid=53302 * Osmarks * (+1) Really unbreak tables 22:49:08 taneb: did you go to the museum today? I was there but for some reason couldn't get on IRC using the museum's wifi 22:49:33 impomatic, I didn't, I'm afraid! 22:50:10 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:53:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:53:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:58:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:08:19 -!- boily has joined. 23:12:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:14:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:15:52 -!- sleffy has joined. 23:18:05 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:18:14 `5 w 23:18:20 1/2:thirt//A thirt is for throwsing snowballs at forty things. \ usa//USA apparently doesn't stand for United State Automaton. \ ghoti//“Ghoti” is a very fishy spelling. \ freefull//FreeFull the Unpronounceable is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ twh//twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. han 23:18:20 `n 23:18:21 2/2:d. 23:20:49 -!- Vorpal has joined. 23:35:03 helloily 23:40:15 `l//rn 23:40:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/l//rn: No such file or directory 23:40:34 what is that command called again 23:40:49 `l/rn 23:40:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/l/rn: No such file or directory 23:41:00 `l\\rn 23:41:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l\\rn: not found 23:45:48 -!- Cthulhux has left ("Closing Window"). 23:47:08 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:47:26 -!- fungot has joined. 23:47:29 QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:47:35 `le/rn 23:47:36 Usage: `le/[/]rn // 23:47:41 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:47:44 fungot: nostril. 23:51:35 `le/rn Seventh Day Adventism//Seventh Day Adventism is an attempt to bugfix an off-by-one error in Anabaptism 23:51:39 Learned 'seventh day adventism': Seventh Day Adventism is an attempt to bugfix an off-by-one error in Anabaptism 23:54:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2017-10-29: 00:20:58 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 00:24:43 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:35:53 -!- Cale has joined. 00:49:15 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53304&oldid=53300 * B jonas * (-54) /* Compiler */ 00:57:01 b_jonas: I have fixed the things you requested for Farbfeld Utilities. (However, I do not have the file to test the "rgbff" program.) 01:12:12 zzo38: thanks 01:12:14 -!- Elronnd has joined. 01:12:29 zzo38: to test rgbff with what input? 01:12:40 [wiki] [[Correct Syntax Error]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53305&oldid=35965 * Elronnd * (+381) Another idea 01:12:49 one with premultiplied alpha? 01:13:23 if you want abgr with premultiplied alpha, then I'll have to export one of those from a program with cairo 01:15:03 if you want one that's planewise interlaced, then I'll get a raw yuv444 image 01:24:56 wob_jonas: With any input; you can test it yourself if you want to, and write another complaint in there if you find that it doesn't work. (You can wait until you need it, if you want to.) 01:25:08 ok 01:26:05 then I'll have to test with those special options as well as just ordinary raw bgr and grayscale images 01:26:12 headerless ones 01:27:52 Yes, that is how it is working. 01:28:56 I will be able to test with various formats 01:29:03 not during weekend, but later 01:29:21 OK 01:30:40 also, ff as an abbreviation for the german Farb-feld makes so much sense that now I wonder what ffmpeg was named of 01:32:32 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:32:36 I don't know either. (But "ff" as an abbreviation for farbfeld is used in the official package as well, not only my own.) 01:33:51 -!- fungot has joined. 01:38:02 Hmm. The if(v>65535) v=65535; statement in outconv in ff-matrix.c is useless now. I wonder why I left it in. 01:38:15 at least it doesn't hurt 01:41:04 Wikipedia says "FFmpeg" is for "fast forward". 01:41:32 How does "mpeg" stand for "ast orward"? 01:42:11 shachaf: mp stands for motion picture, which makes sense for ffmpeg 01:42:27 "eg" might stand for "example" 01:44:30 is it still fast forward in "ffplay"? because that one plays videos at normal speed 01:47:22 I can't even run the Olvasható compiler with modern ruby. They changed the syntax too much for my programs. 01:49:33 I'm trying to decode what it does, since it's 11 years old code I don't really remember 01:53:25 -!- moony has changed nick to evilmoony. 01:08:30 oh right! in t1n.olv, I implement the loop function with the Y-combinator technique, without explicit recursion 01:08:32 crazy code 01:08:38 but it makes sense to use it to test the compiler 01:24:53 <\oren\> https://imgur.com/a/7Epmp 01:34:29 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:40:23 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53306&oldid=53304 * B jonas * (+2119) 01:45:25 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53307&oldid=53306 * B jonas * (+151) 01:53:11 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53308&oldid=53307 * B jonas * (-212) 01:56:14 -!- augur has joined. 02:01:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GREAT CHICKEN). 02:04:00 I don't get it. Where does the compiler actually determine whether the match is exhaustive? I don't see the corresponding code 02:09:36 This is ridiculous. That code must be big. How did it detect the non-exhaustiveness? 02:10:14 [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53309&oldid=53308 * B jonas * (-751) 02:14:00 [wiki] [[Talk:Olvasható]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53310 * B jonas * (+838) Created page with "== Implicit catch-all abort arm? == It seems as if compiler added an extra aborting arm to non-exhausting let match expressions. You can see such an example in..." 03:09:58 One thing I thought of just now is with using the rgbff with a television like interlacing, where you have odd field and even field lines. 03:10:35 You could do with two planes, one red and one green, and then to do ff-tensor and ff-matrix to combine them into one picture. (You can then ff-dntsc to restore the colours.) 03:13:01 `unidecode 𓂺 03:13:03 ​[U+130BA EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053] 03:37:11 ...but which egyptian hieroglyph is it? 03:38:29 I don't know Egyptian so well 03:43:46 Do you have a METAFONT program to make Egyptian hieroglyphics? 03:52:10 it is the ejaculating penis hieroglyph 03:55:12 -!- sleffy has joined. 04:26:57 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:30:56 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:19:29 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:28:04 -!- impomatic has left. 06:34:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:45:02 Just remembered a maths lecture I had a couple of years back covering the Nullstellensatz 06:45:49 Lecturer was trying to translate the name into English, and said "null means zero, stellen means points, satz means theorem... the zero point theorem?" 06:45:59 And me being me I shouted out "The pointless theorem?" 06:46:07 And he said "YES! ...no." 07:04:53 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 07:41:11 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:43:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:25:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: HRII'FHALMA MNAHN'K'YARNAK NGAH NILGH'RI'BTHNKNYTH). 08:41:06 -!- atslash has joined. 09:03:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:05:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:22:03 [wiki] [[Turi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53311&oldid=53303 * Osmarks * (+23) 10:15:21 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:17:44 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 10:27:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:59:12 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 11:00:01 -!- erkin has joined. 12:32:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:40:00 -!- boily has joined. 12:59:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:40:53 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 13:42:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:54:54 `? fungot 13:54:56 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 13:56:43 Fungot (1BB) Creature ― Fungatog; Phasing, Shroud, Shadow. “Fnord.” 13:59:31 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:08:00 What should fungot's P/T be? 14:08:01 -!- fungot has joined. 14:08:08 fungot: are you powerful? 14:12:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:16:47 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:17:45 -!- atslash has joined. 14:28:03 phasing, eh 14:30:52 maybe 1/3, with a +1/0 in irc style. 14:37:12 Oh are there any new interesting developments in CaC land? Any new scams? 14:37:47 (this came out of pondering the various causes of fungot's phasing) 14:41:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:44:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:47:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:10:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:11:07 {B}: Fungot gains +1/-1 and lifelink. 15:11:12 what's a CaC again? 15:18:56 that provider that shall not be named 15:20:21 tdh. 15:33:58 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:55:35 helloily 15:56:51 whats the today plan? tile shuffling? 15:59:11 boily: btw I would've thought of fungot as blue, not black. 16:11:25 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:31:34 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:56:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 16:59:57 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:22:00 Maybe to write, "gains +1/-1 and lifelink until end of turn" 17:23:22 (And, I also don't know what color to put; but you don't need to have only one.) 17:58:09 -!- imode has joined. 18:06:09 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:28:34 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:29:16 -!- atslash has joined. 18:34:45 -!- jaboja has joined. 18:45:35 -!- jaboja has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:51:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:51:32 -!- erkin has joined. 18:56:36 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:21:21 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:21:53 -!- Sarge123 has joined. 19:41:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:42:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:43:46 -!- wob_jonas has joined. 19:44:12 Haha! After pbf and xkcd, smbc tackles the wishing well too. 19:45:19 http://pbfcomics.com/comics/wishing-well/ https://www.xkcd.com/561/ https://www.xkcd.com/568/ http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/wishing-well 19:47:41 Yeah, technically the xkcd well isn't a wishing well. Xkcd has eyelash wishes and a wish-granting genie instead. 19:49:10 https://www.xkcd.com/152/ is the genie, which story I then used in http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=1008395 19:49:22 ais523: let me tell you about the latest bad user interface design I've seen 19:52:48 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:53:45 wob_jonas: go on 19:54:06 -!- Sarge123 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 20:01:22 ais523: so there's this underground here, the M3. its tunnel was built to also serve as an underground bomb shelter back in the cold war scare. 20:02:43 http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-04-09 20:03:37 in most stations on the platforms, there's two fancy emergency buttons, one with a yellow box with a speaker and microphone to talk to an operator, with encouraging labels next to them about how there's a first aid box and defibrillator machine available at the station master's office, 20:03:59 also, "well" is a terrible search term, and even worse when the search engine will also match it with "we'll". 20:04:31 and one with a red or black cover and the button presumably underneath saying it's an emergency stop button that shuts down the power at the rails that you must press if someone falls to the tracks, to protect them from electric shock and to stop the train 20:04:51 int-e: yes, and "wishing well" is also ambiguous 20:05:12 -!- evilmoony has changed nick to moonytheawoo. 20:05:59 ais523: so anyway, a few days ago on Kőbánya-Kispest station, which is one of the few surface (not underground) stations of metro M3, I saw that there's a new fancy box: 20:06:36 this one has *three* emergency buttons mounted on it, one below the other. on top, there's a yellow box with speaker and button to talk to the operator 20:07:20 in the middle, there's a black cover with large label saying emergency stop and pull if someone has fallen on the tracks, but no button in sight because it's behind the cover presumably 20:07:59 and in the bottom there's a red panel with a nicely visible button (emergency style hidden behind a small transparent panel) and small label saying it's a fire alarm button 20:08:43 If someone falls to the tracks and someone quickly has to press the emergency stop button, he'll very likely press the fire alarm button by mistake, and then he'll have to evacuate the station because there's a fire alarm 20:08:51 so you're worried that people will set off the fire alarm trying to stop someone getting electrocuted 20:09:05 hopefully the fire alarm ALSO has the side effect of shutting down the electricity 20:09:16 in the UK I don't think we have a standard "cut power" button on the Underground 20:09:21 or any such button at all 20:09:26 we have a standard fire alarm call point design though 20:09:33 but who knows, this is an end terminal, so the train LEAVING the station in case of a fire might actually be a good idea 20:09:37 in the Underground, it's silent so as to not cause panic 20:10:13 ais523: there's not much point for a specific fire alarm button I think. for that, you'd press the operator button. 20:10:46 and call people to evacuate when possible 20:11:55 the operator phone doesn't seem too useful either, because everyone has a mobile phone, there's guaranteed mobile phone reception in the underground stations, so you can just call the emergency services who contact the operator 20:12:09 the power cut button? that one IS absolutely useful, and should be there 20:12:53 there's already a few people hit by the metro every year (though most of them deliberately commit suicide by jumping just when the train is coming, so the button wouldn't help, but still) 20:17:51 All the metro carriages of M3 and M2 have an call button with mic by the way, which calls the train driver, and the driverless M4 has similar buttons that call an operator. 20:18:26 They also have emergency door opener handles, and the older M3 carriages also have emergency break handles. 20:19:09 Luckily they omitted the emergency break from the newer types of metro, which is good, because an emergency break in a metro is a bad idea anyway. 20:19:17 -!- fungot has joined. 20:20:12 oh hi, fungot 20:20:12 wob_jonas: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 20:20:42 the fungot style is a bit to fungotty 20:20:42 int-e: ( c) a player resigns from an office has whatever duties, then 3 extra " 0" and ( down-from n ( 0 20:20:50 ^style 20:20:50 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 20:21:02 ^style enron 20:21:02 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 20:22:08 `grwp home 20:22:16 coruscant:Trantor is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it. \ farbfeld:zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdoc 20:23:37 `? whom 20:23:39 See: who 20:23:43 `? who 20:23:45 Who cares about ancient cases anyway? 20:23:50 ? 20:43:25 Do you have source codes of bdftopcf and pcftobdf programs? This way, can learn working of such format, to make program that can make PCF fonts; I can also then add the support into SDLTERM (which currently does not support custom fonts; it only has a single built-in font). 20:45:28 zzo38: let me check, the debian package repository probably knows which package they come from and where their source is 20:46:12 https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=bdftopcf&mode=path&suite=stable&arch=any says it's the xfonts-utils package 20:47:23 @tell oerjan Re: Who cares about ancient cases anyway? / To whom it may concern... 20:47:23 Consider it noted. 20:47:27 which links to https://www.x.org/releases/individual/app/ for tarballs 20:47:30 zzo38: ^ 20:52:07 OK thanks 20:56:28 what has become of xlswins? 20:56:51 Also, do you know how to get the missing patch files for WildMIDI? I noticed some are missing, and perhaps that is why some MIDI files won't play properly. 20:58:13 int-e: that said, it's possible that bdftopcf is older than the whole x.org and it's inherinted those utilities mostly unchanged from ancient X11 20:58:44 I don't know anything about xlswins or WildMIDI or MIDI in general 20:59:09 zzo38: I suspect that was for you 21:05:21 Hah. X11R5: "xlswins has been removed; it is replaced by xwininfo -tree." 21:07:07 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 21:07:09 A extended pcf format can be made up, with two additional tables, which are the ligature/kern table and the extended character table. These tables are used only if ligature mode is activated in the program that selects these fonts, and the extended character table is then used when the ligature/kern table references it. 21:07:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:07:16 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 21:12:18 Do you think it can be good? 21:13:57 zzo38: I don't see a point. just use the modern formats like otf. they can store graymap images, even though that rarely gets used these days, or just hinted vector fonts. 21:14:28 zzo38: I want nice fonts with gray pixels, they are better than bitmaps, only much harder to make 21:14:43 sure, pcf was nice back in the slow computers and small memory devices, but these days we can have better 21:14:45 I prefer pure bitmap fonts; to me, I think they look better than graymaps. 21:15:11 they look better than a lot of bad fonts, sure 21:16:42 However, my suggestion for the new version of X protocol anyways, that the protocol doesn't care about the file format used for fonts, although pcf is a recommended format, it can support other formats too if they want to. However, two flags must be selected by the client that selects the font, which are EnableLigatures and EnableAntialiasing. 21:17:25 Graymaps (or even full colours) can't be displayed if EnableAntialiasing is not set (in such case, it may hit to pure bitmaps instead), while astral Unicode characters won't be available if EnableLigatures is not set. 21:18:48 (If the server (or the font format) does not support those flags, they will simply be ignored, as though they aren't selected.) 21:20:08 I don't really like otf and that stuff, but this new proposed system nevertheless doesn't care and would be potentially capable of using them if you want to do. 21:21:23 Now do you think this one can be good? 21:23:33 you talked about this already. I answered that fonts are irrelevant for the X protocol these days. the X protocol just gets the client to map memory and graphics processor control for windows they have, and they do the rendering themselves in client-side stuff 21:23:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:25:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:25:14 That can't work in case of remote clients though. 21:36:24 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:36:47 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest5668. 21:37:14 zzo38: it still can work. it's just slower because the rendered pixmap stuff has to get forwarded through the network. the X server still doesn't know about client-side font rendering then. 21:37:42 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:39:28 remote X still more or less works on modern systems, just like other kinds of remote desktops 21:39:43 "work" 21:39:56 for most modern programs it's a bandwidth hog. 21:40:42 well yes 21:40:50 you have to pay for transmitting fancy graphics 21:40:52 Running things in Xvnc works much better. Or use xpra. 21:40:57 you can tone down the features in that case 21:41:27 but I don't really care about remote X 21:43:43 I care a bit, though mostly for silly stuff. The main point is that I'm bandwidth limited at home, but not at work, so having a remote browser download stuff is convenient. And occasionally, links just doesn't do the trick and I resort to firefox in Xvnc. 21:44:17 int-e: ok 21:45:17 And since the point is to save bandwidth, having 10MB transfer just for getting the browser window displayed once isn't good either... that's the order of magnitude I'm observing with dumb X forwarding. 21:48:34 yes, that makes sense 21:52:34 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 22:15:31 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 22:15:51 -!- MrBusiness3 has quit (Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY -- Suicide is Painless - Johnny Mandel). 22:18:14 I am making a program to render PC CGA screens (both text and graphics mode; both raw and BSAVE) 22:27:16 -!- atslash has joined. 22:29:49 -!- boily has joined. 22:33:26 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:34:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:39:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:46:55 Why does PC have its own cursor blink logic instead of using the 6845 cursor blink logic? 22:58:51 because. 23:02:20 I don't understand the question; from what I'm reading the text cursor *is* managed by the 6845 on CGA? 23:04:58 The cursor position is managed by 6845, but not the cursor blinking. 23:05:27 (This can be seen if you look at the schematics.) 23:05:35 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:17:56 [wiki] [[User:Challenger5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53312&oldid=53159 * Challenger5 * (+79) 23:20:44 -!- atslash has joined. 23:21:18 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 23:21:41 * ATMunn pokes fungot 23:21:42 ATMunn: a meeting.) if any of the ena and affiliated and unaffiliated with wptf on many california pipelines that could have helped the state had an outstanding season, finishing the facility that we 23:22:06 * ATMunn pokes fungot again 23:22:06 ATMunn: we end up the indemnity. aquila. 330853915 telex: inmarsat fax no. 713/ 646-7341 internal extension 33866 or kathy willard, vice president of the only one. 23:22:23 * ATMunn pokes fungot one last time 23:22:23 ATMunn: on an isda schedule/ credit, for the lessor of 40, where the above mentioned questions of the california legislature the generators that have previously, in notice to members PHASH 01-333 ( http://www.nymex.com/ refernce/ notices/ 2001 23:22:40 -!- atslash has quit (Client Quit). 23:43:35 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:56:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:58:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 2017-10-30: 00:00:02 -!- danieljabailey has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in). 00:00:18 -!- danieljabailey has joined. 00:22:52 * boily pokes ATMunn poking fungot 00:22:53 boily: source international brotherhood of electrical workers. robert paul, and were not written, the group." photo of the account on the deal for the troubled power grid to them to do the best for you. 00:36:22 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:19:48 Is good, they made the IBM PC technical reference book. If I make up the new computer, the book would also include all of that stuff too; the complete description of all memory map, hardware registers, schematics, BIOS source codes, instruction set, video interface, etc. 01:20:08 To me, I think would be good idea; it should be needing to have. 01:37:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MEDICAL CHICKEN). 02:10:45 -!- fractal has quit (Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 02:18:54 -!- furozo has joined. 02:23:27 -!- fractal_ has joined. 03:21:10 -!- Guest5668 has changed nick to Slereah. 03:21:39 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Guest12966. 03:23:46 -!- Guest12966 has changed nick to Slereah_. 03:40:54 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:41:45 -!- furozo has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:44:37 I have a program called DRAWX; its .DRX file format seems to be just the raw screen data with no header. (I wrote a program just now to display raw PC screen data, and it does display.) 04:45:17 (At least this is true for CGA modes; I don't know about EGA, VGA, and Hercules modes.) 05:04:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 05:50:49 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 05:55:07 Now my Farbfeld Utilities package includes programs for reading thirteen formats and for writing eleven formats (in both cases, not counting farbfeld, which all the programs in the package support anyways). 06:18:02 -!- qytjarqdeb has joined. 06:18:03 -!- qytjarqdeb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:18 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:04:47 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:12:09 -!- sleffy has joined. 08:28:08 -!- atslash has joined. 08:32:35 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:32:48 -!- atslash has joined. 09:05:46 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:17:14 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:22:15 -!- fungot has joined. 10:34:08 -!- boily has joined. 10:53:10 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:54:56 `5 w 10:55:02 1/2:hallucination//You are just imagining this wisdom entry. \ `3//`3 is the obvious generalization of `2 or `4, trying too hard to confuse everyone. \ chuchichäschtli//chuchichäschtli is spoken as [ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli] \ integer//An integer is a number that does not contain a wildcard that matches any character other than a line fee 10:55:03 `n 10:55:04 2/2:d. \ alumni//Alumni is a compromise spelling suggested to solve the aluminum vs aluminium debate that never really caught on, except in a few big colleges. 11:20:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PERCENT CHICKEN). 11:53:07 `cwlprits alumni 11:53:15 wob_jonäs 11:53:18 whoa 12:00:05 what? 12:00:45 I didn't expect that to be a b_jonasdom. 12:02:10 zzo38: re cursor blinking, is that about the orignal PC? 12:06:25 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:25:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:27:16 -!- Cale has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:34:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:42:05 -!- Cale has joined. 13:00:25 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:42:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:13:33 wow! we must be in the future. the FSzEK library now accepts online payments for my late library loans. 14:18:41 -!- Sarge123 has joined. 14:21:46 tick tock tick tock... oh that kind of library. 14:52:08 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:59:54 -!- fungot has joined. 14:59:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:00:08 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:04:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:55:40 b_jonas: Yes this cursor blinking I wrote about the original PC. 15:56:08 But, maybe it is because they want the cursor blinking to be synchronized with the text blinking. 15:57:47 they should have syncopated it 16:01:15 Even so, the way they implemented it, means, cannot make non-blinking cursor. 16:02:08 (Although I suppose you could still turn on the 6845 cursor blinking too, and then the cursor might be result strangely blink.) 16:03:48 -!- erkin has joined. 16:05:53 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:14:35 If you know some thing about the PC CGA, maybe, you can see if my program for rendering a picture from the data for CGA into farbfeld, is good or has something wrong with it. One thing I notice is that the picture isn't centred, but I don't know if it is supposed to be centre or not. 16:16:39 -!- imode has joined. 16:18:58 -!- atslash has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:19:19 -!- atslash has joined. 16:39:17 zzo38: is there a wiki for esoteric chess variants 16:45:21 I don't know, but, you can make up a esoteric chess variant if you like to; just make the text file, I suppose. 16:46:53 zzo38: where do you keep all your chess variants so that people looking for chess variants can find them? 16:56:11 Many of them I just wrote on paper and haven't put it into the computer. 17:00:26 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:15:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:19:14 Dimension X seems like a pretty fun variant 17:50:48 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:52:38 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:45 -!- Sarge123 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 18:22:42 -!- imode has joined. 18:23:30 -!- sleffy has joined. 18:49:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:49:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 18:49:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:02:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:12:12 -!- erkin has joined. 19:13:14 I found yet another place with digital versions of the ed. Iványi ''Algorithms of informatics'' book. 19:13:24 http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume1/adatok.html http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume2/adatok.html http://www.tankonyvtar.hu/hu/tartalom/tamop425/0046_algorithms_of_informatics_volume3/adatok.html 19:13:40 these are probably the latest English versions, but the formatting doesn't seem to be so great 19:16:20 Do you know why the border of the CGA picture is not uniform? Is it supposed to be like that? 19:16:48 zzo38: maybe you have the sync signals in it? 19:18:03 b_jonas: I thought I made it so that the duration of the sync signals does not output any pixels, and only marks from one scanline to the next one. 19:21:50 But, maybe I did it wrong? 19:27:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:28:46 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:02 or you're passing the signal through a noisy analog cable 19:33:15 or something is changing the border color within a frame 19:33:32 I looked at the source-codes of the program "bdftopcf" but it doesn't actually have the implementation of the format; it seem to call other library to do that. 19:34:56 b_jonas: I implemented it entirely by software emulation, so that can't be the problem. 19:42:33 -!- augur has joined. 19:47:00 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...). 19:47:02 -!- HoolooBOO has changed nick to Hooloovo0. 19:47:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:47:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:17:57 -!- MrBusiness has joined. 20:40:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:00:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:01:00 -!- augur has joined. 21:05:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:14:51 -!- Sarge123 has joined. 21:20:39 Huh. "System peripheral: Intel Corporation Skylake Gaussian Mixture Model". 21:20:49 Wonder what that's all about. 21:30:57 -!- augur has joined. 21:35:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:31 -!- grumble has quit (Quit: And it can't be outfought, it can't be outdone, it can't be outmatched, it can't be outrun.). 21:47:54 -!- grumble has joined. 22:02:49 -!- augur has joined. 22:08:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:15:14 https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jece/2013/129589/ perhaps 22:41:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:43:05 -!- xkapastel has joined. 22:45:03 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:45:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:57:11 -!- Sarge123 has left. 23:09:26 There's also https://sigport.org/documents/implementation-efficient-low-power-deep-neural-networks-next-generation-intel-client https://sigport.org/sites/default/files/docs/PosterFinal.pdf 23:10:01 Not much documentation, but I guess it's only meant to be used via Intel's SDK thingummies. 23:13:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:15:42 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:35:57 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:48:35 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:53:13 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Truttle1 * New user account 2017-10-31: 00:01:20 [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53313&oldid=53267 * Truttle1 * (+267) /* Introductions */ 00:24:21 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:26:28 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:12:37 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:46:19 [wiki] [[SMATINY]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53314&oldid=31904 * Rottytooth * (-13) /* External resources */ had old link 01:47:35 -!- Evilinator has changed nick to i_see_evil. 01:47:40 -!- i_see_evil has changed nick to Evilinator. 03:29:36 -!- xkapastel has joined. 03:42:50 -!- sleffy has joined. 05:03:55 -!- Hooloovo0 has changed nick to HoolooBOO. 05:29:17 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:46:09 -!- atslash has joined. 05:50:08 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:33:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:45:18 -!- augur has joined. 07:47:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry for my connection). 07:48:39 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 07:53:10 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:53:11 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:00:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:05:35 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:11:17 -!- MrBismuth has joined. 08:14:10 -!- MrBusiness has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:20:52 -!- lezsakdomi has joined. 08:30:49 Happy programmer christmas 08:37:09 -!- augur has joined. 08:41:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:05:54 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneboween. 09:20:28 -!- atslash has joined. 09:36:05 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:40:31 -!- Capaverde has joined. 09:48:37 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:49:25 -!- MDead has joined. 09:51:59 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:52:00 -!- MDead has changed nick to MDude. 09:57:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 09:58:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:01:23 -!- relrod_ has joined. 10:01:23 -!- relrod_ has quit (Changing host). 10:01:23 -!- relrod_ has joined. 10:01:40 -!- alercah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:01:40 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:01:40 -!- wladz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:01:42 -!- wladz has joined. 10:02:18 -!- alercah has joined. 10:03:24 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 10:24:36 -!- Effilry has joined. 10:25:02 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 615 seconds). 10:30:55 -!- boily has joined. 10:33:08 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:33:34 -!- atslash has joined. 10:50:08 -!- erkin has joined. 11:00:04 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFy. 11:00:07 -!- FireFy has changed nick to FireFly. 11:21:52 fungot: nostril. 11:21:52 boily: could we schedule more out of an input cost basis for the charge to the will of the attached to the four ( 4) on dwr's power purchase and sale of power, to create the need to: call today 11:22:17 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:23:54 -!- erkin has joined. 11:28:14 -!- sdhand has changed nick to sdclaw. 11:28:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: APPARATUS CHICKEN). 11:39:58 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:45:22 -!- Capaverde has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:02:22 -!- erkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:07:56 -!- erkin has joined. 12:10:53 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:13 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 12:46:57 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:47:02 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! 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Got SIGABRT, dying...). 21:11:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:21:01 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:37:47 -!- Taneboween has changed nick to Taneb. 21:40:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:12:25 What are the values of resistors R3, R5, R6, R7, R8, R9, and R10, of PC CGA schematics? 22:16:30 -!- erkin has joined. 22:19:48 -!- boily has joined. 22:21:57 fungot: spooky pumpkin. 22:21:58 boily: ( in the from a free deluxe, which the power of the option of going the opposite of what to do." 22:32:09 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:50 -!- joast has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:56:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:42:53 -!- joast has joined. 23:46:09 -!- augur has joined. 23:53:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:57:39 spoopoily 23:58:54 QUINTHELLOPIA! ```