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00:20:00 <lambdabot> CYUL 020000Z 18006KT 15SM -RA OVC035 07/03 A3027 RMK SC8 SLP254
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04:21:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Loudcolour * New user account
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04:26:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:MMP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53316 * Challenger5 * (+2097) Created page with "This looks like a neat language! I wanted to let you know that [https://gist.github.com/ScratchMan544/70e3dfbe091c5f3e46d47a99a8e4e7e6 I've written an implementation]. There a..."
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11:01:03 <boily> fungot: how many nostrils do you have?
11:01:03 <fungot> boily: one of the reported matter the purchaser. not only lavished on executives."
11:01:24 <boily> Executive Nostrils™ with Leather Upholstering.
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15:31:43 <lambdabot> int-e said 3d 18h 44m 19s ago: Re: Who cares about ancient cases anyway? / To whom it may concern...
15:32:18 <HackEgo> fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
15:33:28 <HackEgo> OLD="wisdom/$1"; [ -z "$1" ] && OLD="$(lastfiles)"; NEW="${OLD}s"; if [ -f "$NEW" ]; then echo "«${NEW}» already exists"; exit 1; fi; mv "$OLD" "$NEW" && echo "«${OLD}» -> «${NEW}»"
15:34:10 <HackEgo> fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
15:35:49 <HackEgo> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
15:36:19 <oerjan> `le/rn testing // what happened with that
15:36:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'testing ': what happened with that
15:36:37 <oerjan> (just saw numbers in the logs)
15:39:37 <shiro`> if I haven't programmed with an esolang before what should I try?
15:41:48 <alercah> why do you want to program with one?
15:42:13 <shiro`> also I want to make one
15:42:39 <alercah> what kind of fun? the challenge of doing something with limited tools? the fun of exploring something weird?
15:45:56 <oerjan> also funge98 is unusually usable, right fungot
15:45:56 <fungot> oerjan: the short form agreement.??
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16:02:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funge-98]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53317&oldid=52671 * Finianb1 * (+84) /* Instructions */
16:07:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53318&oldid=53177 * Finianb1 * (+27) /* Befunge-93 and Befunge-98 */
16:21:47 <b_jonas> if you actually want to make useful programs, the best bet might be certain non-esolangs with strange features, like haskell or some APL
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17:21:14 <int-e> Hmm, maybe we should conduct a poll whether Countercall is TC.
17:21:29 <alercah> proof by poll, that's a new one
17:22:00 <b_jonas> int-e: what? that's not one of those languages whose meaning keeps changing according to popular vote or something, right?
17:22:06 <int-e> (ais523 wrote on the page that he believes that it is TC... I'm leaning towards no)
17:22:40 <alercah> int-e: that's my intuition as well
17:23:17 <int-e> b_jonas: I'd prefer a proof, but the language is just awful enough to make that hard (for me, at least).
17:23:23 <alercah> it would not be the first time I've been proven wrong
17:23:43 <int-e> So it becomes a perfect target for conjectures :P
17:25:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53319&oldid=52409 * B jonas * (+46)
17:26:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Carlos * New user account
17:38:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lost]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53320 * Wheatwizard * (+2780) Made page
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20:19:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Three Star Programmer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53321&oldid=46069 * Ais523 * (+146) /* Computational class */ TC proof sketch
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21:13:33 <HackEgo> The password of the month is revolutionary
21:50:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Geo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53322 * B jonas * (+3203) Created page with "''Geo'' is a simple interpreted toy programming language. I, [[User:b_jonas|b_jonas]] created it in 2006 for a programming course that required implementing a parser using ya..."
21:51:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Geo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53323&oldid=53322 * B jonas * (+96)
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21:54:06 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, gno
21:54:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53325&oldid=53277 * B jonas * (+10)
21:55:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Geo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53326&oldid=53324 * B jonas * (+25)
21:56:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Olvasható]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53327&oldid=53309 * B jonas * (+25)
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22:04:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Geo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53330&oldid=53329 * B jonas * (+38)
22:15:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Scan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53331 * B jonas * (+1319) Created page with "'''Scan''' is a toy programming language. I, [[User:b_jonas|b_jonas]] created it in 2003. I published it to the world around 2006. Scan is dynamically typed, values can be..."
22:15:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53332&oldid=53325 * B jonas * (+11)
22:17:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53333&oldid=53319 * B jonas * (+114)
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22:48:07 <wob_jonas> Countercall indeed sounds like it's not obvious whether it's turing complete or not
22:50:32 <ais523> I'm currently leaning towards yes but wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong
22:51:50 <ais523> the main problem is that it only has two places to store data and they're both critically important for other things, /and/ it's easy to prove that you need to shift data back and forth between the two of them for TCness
22:51:52 <wob_jonas> I suspect it's not turing complete, but I don't really know
22:52:49 <wob_jonas> I'm fine with only two places to keep data and shifting data back and forth, that's how two stack automata work, but this one is just so awkward
22:53:24 <ais523> right, it'd be easy if the data were just data, rather than being inherent to the language's control flow at the same time
22:54:05 <wob_jonas> and there's just too few ways to control flow
22:54:21 <wob_jonas> if there were multiple ways to call a function which use the counter differently, it would be easy
22:57:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Scan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53334&oldid=53331 * B jonas * (+3)
22:59:08 <wob_jonas> (I just realized that scan is not turing-complete, because it only has the one stack that stores returns and localized values of variables, and all values are fixed point integers or functions that don't close over anything at runtime.)
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23:11:40 <ais523> is untyped lambda calculus TC without closures? admittedly, I'm not 100% sure what that would mean
23:12:02 <ais523> certainly, currying wouldn't work, which get rid of most of the usual constructions
23:14:03 <wob_jonas> ais523: um... how would that work?
23:14:52 <ais523> come to think of it, Splinter is pretty close to this
23:15:01 <wob_jonas> do you mean that functions only store a reference to the stack, and you can call them only as long as the innermost block of which it refers a variable hasn't exited yet?
23:15:17 <ais523> I mean that a function value isn't stateful
23:15:29 <ais523> it's just a reference to a block of code, like in C
23:15:42 <wob_jonas> but you also don't have algebraic types?
23:15:48 <wob_jonas> because that sounds like a pushdown automaton
23:16:35 <ais523> I agree, I think it's a PDA
23:24:39 <wob_jonas> scan, of which I just wrote a stub entry, is actually sort of like that. a function value only holds a pointer to a node in the parse tree. no closing over values.
23:26:25 <wob_jonas> I think the rules for variables is this: variables with the same name in different compile-time scopes are distinguished. local variables are dynamically localized in the correct scope, but closures don't record any value or reference to them. variable access just takes the innermost localized value that corresponds to the same variable in the sour
23:26:37 <wob_jonas> but I'm not quite sure it works that way.
23:29:38 <wob_jonas> The simplest way to have such a language is to only have global variables instead.
23:44:30 <wob_jonas> but I think if you only have globals, it might not even have enough power for a push-down automaton. I'm not sure.
23:44:48 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure if there's even a difference if you can't get input.