00:00:27 <HackEgo> 1/2:tanstaaha//tanstaaha, so please stop using them. That would help. \ cat introduction//cat introduction is the process of piping one or more extra `cat` commands into your pipeline; occasionally this is even actually useful. \ nlhp//nlhp is a hockey programme. \ emacs//emacs is the weird brother of nano. \ extreme irony//Extreme irony
00:00:30 <zzo38> wob_jonas: O, is that StarCraft? I think I have heard of that (Sirlin mentioned it a few times).
00:00:30 <HackEgo> 2/2:is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing.
00:01:19 <HackEgo> cat elimination is the process of replacing a one-argument `cat` command with the shell operator <
00:01:25 <HackEgo> cat: bin/nlhp: No such file or directory
00:01:57 <fizzie> The ones I generated from my own logs have one second precision, the ones the bot's recording now use microseconds.
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00:03:08 <zzo38> fizzie: O, OK. Either SIRCL or codu.org format should be acceptable; if using codu.org format then the ones that don't have microseconds you could put zero perhaps, maybe
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00:17:45 <fizzie> Re spaces, that was just a CSS mistake, turns out the property is "white-space" and not "whitespace".
00:18:52 <wob_jonas> fizzie: by the way, can you link to the other two log sites please?
00:19:14 <fizzie> From where, the index page?
00:19:30 <fizzie> Sure, I'll add a TODO.
00:20:00 <wob_jonas> Yeah, the spaces look better now. Thanks.
00:20:19 <wob_jonas> fizzie: can I link your logs from https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal ?
00:21:19 <fizzie> wob_jonas: Eventually, sure, but they might not be quite ready for consumption yet. In particular, the index doesn't pick up new daily logs automatically yet, amusingly enough. Let me do a little bit of polish before that.
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01:34:16 <alexThinkpad> this chan is about esoteric programming languages?
01:34:23 <HackEgo> alexThinkpad: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:34:59 <shachaf> esoteri.ca is for sale for $2000
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02:09:46 <zzo38> Probably it depend the use I suppose, regex seem good enough for many of the thing that it is in use for
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02:10:30 <alexThinkpad> okay so ... what else that can also be somehow good is there else than regex similar like regex?
02:12:43 <zzo38> Can you give some examples of what you might be doing with it?
02:13:26 <alexThinkpad> regex belongs to grammars in theoretical computer science
02:14:07 <alexThinkpad> I think about grammars that r either turing complete or a bit more (half) turing complete than regexes already r
02:14:18 <alexThinkpad> the thing is, u can not do anything with regex
02:15:23 <alexThinkpad> so if there r also other comparable things like regex
02:16:03 <alexThinkpad> they don't need to be better in all than regex, but only for certain use cases
02:16:41 <zzo38> Like what kind of use cases?
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02:24:14 <alexThinkpad> what also would be really good, if u know how to add turing complete (pyhton) code to the regexes to make it then afterwards turing complete
02:24:37 <alexThinkpad> It would be good to have certain sourcecode recepies
02:25:01 <alexThinkpad> and so u don't need something better than regexes
02:25:37 <alexThinkpad> there is software using regex that supports flags and jumps
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02:26:02 <zzo38> PCRE does some things
02:26:08 <alexThinkpad> it might be that this already make this turing complete and if not, it still becomes a little nearer to turing completeness this way
02:28:00 <alexThinkpad> I am using sed, python, grep, vim for doing things with regexes
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02:30:35 <zzo38> (I have also written a SQLite extension to use PCRE)
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02:34:53 <zzo38> This is one SQL code that uses the extension for PCRE: http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cards.sql
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03:18:30 <esowiki> [[Esolang:About]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53562&oldid=30621 * Fizzie * (+153) HTTPS for canonical URL; delink voxelperfect.net link (domain squatters); mention Bytemark (no place in the logo icon to explain).
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04:37:28 <esowiki> [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53563&oldid=53060 * Wheatwizard * (+75) /* Interpreters */ Added a link to BrainHack, and implementation language
04:43:56 <esowiki> [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53564&oldid=53563 * Wheatwizard * (+15) Put Monads and Nilads as subsections of Tutorial
04:49:29 <esowiki> [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53565&oldid=53564 * Wheatwizard * (-150) Moved information relevant to interpreters to the interpreters section, adding links to online interpreters as well
04:59:21 <esowiki> [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53566&oldid=53565 * Wheatwizard * (+605) Added comments to the tutorial
05:07:22 <esowiki> [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53567&oldid=53566 * Wheatwizard * (+191) Added a CNF to avoid ambiguity
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07:54:31 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53568&oldid=43158 * Jabutosama * (-250)
07:54:46 <esowiki> [[User:Jabutosama]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53569&oldid=53568 * Jabutosama * (+8)
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10:56:26 <b_jonas> fizzie: in the raw logs like https://esolangs.org/logs/2017-12-12-raw.txt , the second word of the timestamp is in what unit?
10:57:48 <shachaf> fizzie: did you know esolan.gs is available
10:57:58 <shachaf> how come you don't use that one twh
10:58:58 <shachaf> b_jonas: Looks like microseconds? What else would it be?
10:59:18 <fizzie> Yes, it's the microseconds fraction.
10:59:25 <fizzie> Just following codu.org example.
11:00:25 <shachaf> Is the code that generates this public?
11:00:31 <shachaf> What about the proto file?
11:01:20 <fizzie> shachaf: I'll put it to github eventually. At the moment it's in the same repository as some unpublished stuff, because there were useful bits in there already.
11:01:23 <fizzie> bazel and the "single workspace syndrome", you know.
11:02:30 <shachaf> This is one of the big scows of the single repository model.
11:02:54 <fizzie> It seems that people have been gravitating towards the repositories.bzl model of dependency handling in bazel.
11:04:11 <shachaf> Looking it up the first thing I see is a deprecated repository.
11:04:32 <shachaf> Sounds like some secret Google sauce may have been leaked.
11:04:51 <fizzie> I'm trying to remember where the canonical example was.
11:04:58 <shachaf> Is it https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_go/blob/master/go/private/repositories.bzl ?
11:05:07 <fizzie> https://github.com/jupp0r/prometheus-cpp/blob/master/repositories.bzl looks almost like it, except it's missing the "omit" flags from the last def.
11:05:39 <fizzie> Looks like there's a few different styles.
11:06:15 <fizzie> The one I'm familiar with looks a little like that, except you pass boolean flags to the 'def go_rules_dependencies' controlling which deps it will include or not.
11:06:37 <shachaf> Did you know github.com tar.gz files for a given tag are nondeterministic?
11:06:53 <fizzie> Here's one: https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/blob/master/repositories.bzl
11:06:56 <shachaf> Sometimes it decides to regenerate them and ends up with a different tar file.
11:07:06 <fizzie> I did not know that. That's terrible.
11:08:32 <shachaf> What're all these repositories.bzl things accomplishing?
11:09:37 <fizzie> They let you use someone else's repository without having to manually define all the dependencies it has in your own WORKSPACE file. The omit_X flags (and the 'maybe' trick in rules_go) let you still override them if you want to be in control.
11:10:39 <fizzie> In your own WORKSPACE you'd just load("@someone_else//:repositories.bzl", "someone_else_repositories") someone_else_repositories(omit_something=True)
11:11:59 <shachaf> Maybe I should look for a place that uses this.
11:12:55 <shachaf> Why doesn't GitHub support global search across all repositories?
11:13:20 <shachaf> One might imagine that you could make a pretty nice tool for that sort of thing.
11:13:40 <fizzie> Like some sort of a... search for code? A code search?
11:17:29 <b_jonas> I'm still mad about how Topográf has been driven to stop making maps of Budapest, and all we have is these stupid Cartographia maps that are so much worse in quality
11:17:36 <shachaf> Oh, the thing that wasn't clear to me was that maven_jar defines a repository.
11:17:57 <shachaf> I thought it defined a build target.
11:17:59 <b_jonas> It's been like six years now, but that doesn't help because the city is still here and I still need a fuckign map
11:18:26 <fizzie> Right, that macro is intended to be used in a WORKSPACE, not in a BUILD file.
11:18:30 <shachaf> But now I see that it defines a repository and then you depend on "@repository//jar"
11:18:45 <b_jonas> shachaf: microseconds. ok, thanks
11:18:52 <fizzie> The basic problem is, when you have a workspace rule like http_archive(name = "foo", ...) bazel doesn't really look[*1] at the WORKSPACE file it downloads, so if the build rules in that workspace expect there to be an external repository @bar, they won't work unless you define 'bar' in *your* WORKSPACE. The repositories.bzl trick just makes that a little more painless. [*1] Except nowadays it checks
11:18:58 <fizzie> the workspace name against the name you've given it.
11:20:24 <b_jonas> shachaf: "Why doesn't GitHub support global search across all repositories?" => I think they used to have that. didn't they? at least I heard of multiple people doing searches, but maybe they cloned everything.
11:21:03 <shachaf> Well, even if they did I'd complain because it's not as good as fizzie's hypothetical tool.
11:21:10 <b_jonas> shachaf: in particular, some people have searched for database passwords embedded literally in code, which was some sort of fashion back then, and someone searched for something about constants or whatever
11:21:58 <shachaf> Anyway one time I was using bazel and it gave an error because a tar.gz archive had changed. It turned out github was to blame.
11:22:22 <shachaf> Looks like it's still happening as of Sep: https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/12979
11:23:42 <shachaf> fizzie: Presumably if you have a "real" project at a "real" company, you want to download all the repositories you depend on anyway, so you can build if github or maven or whatever goes down.
11:24:03 <shachaf> In which case I guess you just omit everything and do it yourself?
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11:32:58 <fizzie> Judging from the left-pad fiasco, a lot of "real" companies don't do that. But yeah, if you're doing that you probably won't use the repositories.bzl.
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11:40:31 <shachaf> Perhaps it would be good enough if there was a content-addressed repository that http_archive() etc. could look things up in.
11:40:59 <shachaf> Or maybe you could even put these things inside your repository! But not if you use git.
11:43:30 <shachaf> fizzie: Why isn't FUSE the standard interface for version control systems, anyway?
11:43:41 <shachaf> Isn't actually modifying filese on the filesystem a bit archaic?
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12:10:39 <zseri> found an article about solving a sudoku using SQL: https://www.percona.com/blog/2017/11/22/sudoku-recursive-common-table-expression-solver/
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14:50:00 <b_jonas> I'm careless and ran the wrong command
14:50:19 <b_jonas> then I tried to fix the mess and panicked and ran more wrong commands
14:50:23 <b_jonas> I'm trying to clean up the mess
14:51:34 <b_jonas> I didn't lose any data at least, thanks to the vcs
14:54:42 <Taneb> b_jonas: take a short break, get a glass of water
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15:04:10 <zseri> just uploaded my text table database library: https://github.com/zserik/zsdatab
15:08:38 <zseri> it is a bit esoteric, as it hasn't a SQL frontend, uses simple text files in the backend and uses (mathematic-) set-like table contexts to search and manipulate data.
15:43:48 <b_jonas> zseri: is there docs for it?
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16:07:20 <zseri> but the src/entry.cxx file (the command line frontend) shows the basic usage of tables and contexts
16:08:03 <zseri> transactions are like contexts, but they don't hold data, only the commands that will be applied to them
16:08:53 <zseri> transaction commands also optimize themself by looking at the last 'pushed' command and possible modification of that
16:10:58 <zseri> the header file src/zsdatable.hpp contains the whole public API, but the only function I really described inside it is inner_join, because it's a newer function needed in practical usage
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16:46:47 <Taneb> Ugh, it feels so late
16:47:24 <int-e> move to central europe :P
16:47:37 <int-e> (though a quarter to 6 isn't much better, I suppose)
16:48:30 <Taneb> int-e: my five year plan involves moving to Italy
16:50:16 <Taneb> Plan for the next five years
16:52:10 <int-e> (The last time I had a five year plan was in 1986 to 1989...)
16:52:40 <Taneb> (what was your age in 1986?)
16:52:45 <int-e> ...it didn't end well. (This is referring to GDR (aka Eastern Germany)
16:53:27 <int-e> Let's say I wasn't a teenager yet.
16:53:51 <Taneb> Anyway, yeah, my plan is to work for a few years here, save up a pile of money, then move to my girlfriend's flat in Italy and try to do a PhD near there
16:54:38 <Taneb> I wonder how hard it would be to convince my bank and my employer to let me get paid and save my money in euros...
16:55:20 <zzo38> I read document about OpenID Connect, is there a way to access RDF data with it and/or to use with command-line access and other non-HTML-based access?
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17:28:23 <esowiki> [[WLoop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53570 * Sacchan * (+3611) Created page with "'''WLoop''' (pronounced "double loop") is a [[Turing-complete]] language based on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOOP_(programming_language) LOOP] and [https://en.wikipedia.or..."
17:28:47 <esowiki> [[WLoop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53571&oldid=53570 * Sacchan * (+99)
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17:33:56 <zseri> zsdatab documentation https://github.com/zserik/zsdatab/blob/master/README.md
17:36:13 <esowiki> [[WLoop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53572&oldid=53571 * Sacchan * (+0) /* Example U-functions */
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17:39:49 <zseri> b_jonas: zsdatab doc https://github.com/zserik/zsdatab/blob/master/README.md
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17:54:52 <b_jonas> zseri: ah, so you don't even pretend to take sql-like syntax?
17:55:04 <b_jonas> but instead have some completely different syntaxd
17:56:13 <zseri> I have a simple CLi and I find SQL overly complex, instead I use set-like operations to emulate select statements ...
18:00:19 <zseri> e.g. instead of SQL "SELECT ... WHERE x = 'abc', b = 'dcd'" it uses "ctx.filter("x", "abc").filter("b", "dcd")"
18:01:20 <zseri> or SQL "SELECT WHERE NOT x = 'abc'" -> "ctx.filter("x", "abc").negate()"
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18:06:23 <zseri> and because I use native C++ and would recommend using C++ in zsdatab clients for the interface, I omit quoting errors
18:24:07 <b_jonas> zseri: ok. how do you find the next row with a key higher or lower than a certain value, to iterate on rows in a certain order?
18:26:27 <b_jonas> as in, provided there's CREATE TABLE t(k, w, v); CREATE INDEX i ON t(k ASC, w ASC); how do you find SELECT w, v FROM t WHERE ? = k AND ? < w ORDER BY w LIMIT 1;
18:27:21 <b_jonas> supposing there are also rows in the table already
18:29:33 <zseri> you must go through the data buffer manually. 1. use 'tab.data()' to get the buffer. 2. use c++11 for(auto &&i : tab.data()) for iterating and tab.get_metadata().get_field_nr(...) to find the column nr
18:44:09 <zseri> b_jonas: https://gist.github.com/zserik/911ad922cec6c9b95269102523efdbf8
18:47:30 <b_jonas> zseri: so you have to query all the SELECT w,v FROM t WHERE ? = k; and then process it by hand. ok.
18:49:56 <zseri> I had good luck that I kept the zsdatab::metadata.serialize method public
18:50:02 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz
18:50:28 <fizzie> Should I add my font there?
18:52:30 <int-e> grr github... a lost cookie is no excuse for losing the ticket text I just typed.
18:57:50 <\oren\_> hmm, this line of perl is a little too perlly
18:57:53 <\oren\_> $svnrev = $1 if +(grep /Revision/,split(/\n/,`svn info`)) =~ m/(\d+)/;
18:59:22 <\oren\_> but I'm not sure how I can make it less perlly
18:59:49 <HackEgo> Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language
19:00:25 <fizzie> `` sed -i -e "s|$| , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font|" wisdom/font
19:00:31 <fizzie> b_jonas: It's a 4x6 pixel font (with 3x5 characters) I made for the robotfindskitten TI-86 port, and its website.
19:00:49 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/rfk86/ should be rendered in it, if web fonts still work like they used to years ago.
19:02:26 <fizzie> I don't think it's especially original or clever, though I still like the 's'.
19:04:25 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font
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21:06:30 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ /bin/sed "$@" && if [[ $# == "3" && "/$1" == "/-i" ]]; then echo -n "$3//"; cat "$3"; fi
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21:07:38 <oerjan> it doesn't work with fizzie's sed commands :(
21:11:28 <HackEgo> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample.png , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font
21:20:50 <fizzie> I assume I should be using the canonical commands, I just can never remember them.
21:22:10 <fizzie> I mean, how are you supposed to remember something like what's the difference between learn_append and learn_append2?
21:48:57 <oerjan> `cat bin/learn_append2
21:49:23 <oerjan> `url bin/learn_append2
21:49:23 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/learn_append2
21:50:48 <oerjan> `` cat -v bin/learn_append2
21:50:49 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash^M \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')^M \ echo "$1" >>"wisdom/$topic"^M \ echo "I knew that."
21:51:06 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/learn_append
21:52:08 <oerjan> `doag bin/learn_append2
21:52:18 <HackEgo> 4884:2014-09-26 <mroman̈_> sed -e \'s/^M//g\' bin/learn_append > bin/learn_append2 \ 4883:2014-09-26 <mroman̈_> sed -i -e \'s/^M//g\' bin/learn_append > bin/learn_append2
21:53:08 <oerjan> `doag bin/learn_append
21:53:14 <HackEgo> 6445:2015-12-22 <olsnër> ` sed -i \'/^topic/ s/\\$.*$/"&"/\' bin/learn_append \ 5047:2014-10-10 <oerjän> sed -i \'6s/[*]/"\\n/\' bin/learn_append \ 5046:2014-10-10 <oerjän> sed -i \'6cecho -n "Learned \'"\'"\'$topic\'"\'"\': *cat "wisdom/$topic"\' bin/learn_append \ 5045:2014-10-10 <oerjän> revert \ 5044:2014-10-10 <oerjän> sed -i \'6cech
21:54:16 <oerjan> fizzie: PROBLEM SOLVED
21:54:38 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
21:55:20 <oerjan> it _looks_ like it was just left over from some attempt to fix the original.
21:57:51 <oerjan> that second line looks a bit misguided.
21:58:53 <HackEgo> test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
21:59:17 <oerjan> `learn_append A test is a test, in jest, in jest.
21:59:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'test': test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. test is a test, in jest, in jest.
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22:00:58 <oerjan> `sled bin/learn_append//2s,s/.*;,,
22:01:00 <HackEgo> bin/learn_append//#!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
22:01:30 <oerjan> `learn_append A test is a test, in jest, in jest.
22:01:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'a': A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. test is a test, in jest, in jest.
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22:45:34 <esowiki> [[Tick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53573&oldid=53082 * Rdebath * (-21) Shorter HW and interpreter.
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23:40:02 <lambdabot> CYUL 122300Z 01016G22KT 3SM -SN DRSN FEW012 OVC020 M08/M10 A2944 RMK SF2SC6 SLP973
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23:54:31 <lambdabot> EGLL 122350Z AUTO 20009KT 9999 -RA SCT027 BKN031 BKN044 06/05 Q1004 TEMPO 6000 -RA BKN012