< 1518912056 575973 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1518912823 848299 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsœøirjan. < 1518912962 506461 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1518912963 268769 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 144) ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic < 1518912998 373277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang, 144 made me laugh < 1518913246 333685 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bood evenily. < 1518913352 115224 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1518913571 793313 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :´" < 1518913573 278840 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1518913575 352409 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`" < 1518913576 22920 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :837) so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); \ 1138) Well, get him her! Well, get her Hang on Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/ oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother < 1518913587 206578 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' < 1518913587 778435 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :460) On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn. < 1518913590 489304 :FireFly!znc@freenode/staff/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1518913771 367956 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`’ < 1518913771 964848 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ’: not found < 1518914019 477431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is your mouth a good heuristic? < 1518914019 668152 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i've seen it < 1518914241 423601 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518914354 444517 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1518914589 647105 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, the Heuristical Holistic Sentient Fungot. < 1518914590 220969 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yes i believe in your letrec example, a third is very close to normal scheme. maybe i'm missing a way to cast a lot of programming concepts which are not < 1518916766 407527 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1518917452 248220 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518920563 965151 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying... < 1518920645 466179 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-242-172.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1518920733 954225 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's mouth is a good PRNG seed < 1518920734 335193 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: are therer any good scheme should be " rube on conveyor belts < 1518921450 933628 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-000-151-159.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518922335 572334 :mniip!mniip@haskell/developer/mniip JOIN :#esoteric < 1518922506 944708 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: DISC CHICKEN < 1518922961 678548 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1518923321 574825 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1518923424 485517 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1518923435 452026 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1518925668 115650 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1518931303 538409 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1518931417 638812 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayynsvunpgevicen JOIN :#esoteric < 1518933180 321880 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1518935478 753317 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1518936969 416285 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518937285 962664 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1518937472 255501 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling JOIN :#esoteric < 1518937666 734439 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1518939182 819607 :TakeYourFreedom!~TakeYourF@dyndsl-091-248-034-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518940458 281392 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1518941157 945028 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1518941211 443383 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518941641 464762 :TakeYourFreedom!~TakeYourF@dyndsl-091-248-034-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1518942338 164661 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518942352 218846 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monocular o => https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/process < 1518942662 477983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1518942668 89434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1518942819 788611 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1518943098 678511 :wob_jonas!b03f18be@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.190 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1518944637 409048 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-000-151-159.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1518945395 860146 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-000-150-001.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518948697 804499 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518950888 926000 :danieljabailey_!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1518951490 50400 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-53-80.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518951675 494353 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-000-150-001.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1518952608 182667 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1518953185 621733 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-53-80.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1518953449 980873 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1518953967 826219 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-14-77.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518954205 920651 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518955629 916433 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-14-77.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1518955658 854957 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-14-77.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518959050 190822 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518959835 456866 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-14-77.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1518960587 902303 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-006-160-123.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518961022 841090 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 w < 1518961030 418737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:amortized//An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember. \ wob_jonas//wob_jonas is b_jonas in disguise, so that he can do magic tricks. \ functor//Functors are morphisms in the category of small categories. \ twitter//Twitter is Taneb's bird collection (presumably). \ shamtag//A shamtag is something that you durch in ord < 1518961032 37816 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n < 1518961032 936448 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:er to make it flome. < 1518963853 825685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg shamtag < 1518963861 849119 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8211:2016-05-30 learn A shamtag is something that you durch in order to make it flome. < 1518964056 872916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I /guess/ tswett was training a letter based language model for english. < 1518964259 122937 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, confirmed. It was a neural network. http://esolangs.org/logs/2016-05-29.txt has a discussion in the morning. < 1518965579 72858 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-feslftblvfjpgppa QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1518966840 606804 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1518968780 444765 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518968826 115149 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that was nice. I also trained a letter-based statistical model (no neural net) once, on Hungarian text, and quoted in this channel a few lines it output at some point. < 1518969597 811648 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-006-160-123.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1518969610 292918 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric < 1518969960 17396 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1518970103 215373 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1518970411 965855 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-2-43.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518973200 168109 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( fingernails evolved so that people won't cut their fingers all the time ) < 1518973316 947634 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no way. there haven't been enough time since we've been washing sharp steel knives hidden by soap bubbles in a kitchen sink for that to matter for evolution. < 1518973411 24333 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there's no way to be sure! < 1518973442 255725 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alternatively, then this is proof for Intelligent Design) < 1518973451 392652 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there sure is. metal items like kitchen sinks and knife blades would be preserved well enough that we'd find archaeological evidence < 1518973473 942039 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If such things existed for more than twelve thousand years, we'd know about it. < 1518973568 208630 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could argue that the fingernails have some role in stopping papercuts, and that people have had paper for much longer than we know, but all the old paper have decomposed and eaten by fungi. < 1518973609 485108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: You know, the "the world was created 4000 years ago" world view is quite consistent. < 1518973642 899623 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, we do have archaeological evidence that civilization is more than 4000 years old < 1518973667 21203 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not more than 12000 years old, give or take a few thousand years, and depending on how exactly you define civilization < 1518973698 175813 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you believe the legends of an old magical civilization erasing its existance from the very time stream in a huge magical accident of course. < 1518973716 532880 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that is stopping me from actually believing it is that I don't think that anybody would actually go through all the trouble of painstakingly faking all this evidence. < 1518974273 419993 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-2-43.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1518975089 918469 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-93-122.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518975284 531349 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1518975324 964914 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1518976267 761020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah so it's not just me who wonders how people actually train their (deep) neural networks. Even the experts don't know: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/missing-data-hinder-replication-artificial-intelligence-studies < 1518976626 265496 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrrmyhlyufdthlft JOIN :#esoteric < 1518976983 284348 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1518977339 573104 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I now have actual undecidability (and recursive inseparability) results for Minsky machines formalized in Isabelle :) < 1518977359 846798 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1518977383 533941 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh, I think you had mentioned you were working on it < 1518977398 998858 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how did you prove that they're undecidable? < 1518977412 679754 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you write a self-interprter? < 1518977434 979373 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an interpreter of an, um, simpler undecidable language? < 1518977447 64752 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :=6.9= < 1518977451 219662 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*purrrrrr* 😸 < 1518977466 37503 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both Spirals lead to epic Success, probably. ☺ < 1518977832 663350 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1518977959 141883 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I didn't have to write any interpreter myself. I basically showed that every r.e. set is recognized by a Minsky machine; I'm building on top of a formalization that has a universal function for r.e. sets. http://downthetypehole.de/paste/jCpbJsVP has some hilights (incomplete and no proofs) < 1518977969 402339 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1518978044 826243 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518978045 265673 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I see. so it's the latter, you write an interpreter for some other language, the one used to define recursive enumarable sets in that formalization? < 1518978085 211899 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi sleffy < 1518978091 229899 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Of course there is an interpreter in there, namely a Minsky machine that recognizes (some preimage of) that universal r.e. set. But I have no clue what it looks like, it's not a constructive proof. < 1518978156 634721 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also clear how to make this constructive *in* principle, but Isabelle/HOL is a classical logic) < 1518978156 952821 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh wait, you're right, it needn't be an interpreter written in Minsky, but only a compiler from the other language to Minsky, the compiler itself implemented in Isabelle < 1518978209 895662 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic, hello! < 1518978214 467218 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me-ow! < 1518978224 432102 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hel-lo! < 1518978254 306879 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yoooooo-hooo! < 1518978255 820322 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1518978358 30606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so what I'm saying is that this "compiler" from the other language (r.e. sets) to Minksy doesn't actually have to be constructive. < 1518978373 185317 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok < 1518978379 15800 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what "constructive" means there < 1518978397 160058 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more like have a hard time imagining a non-constructive implementation < 1518978410 635845 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTINa7818c < 1518978416 409379 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no choice, no law of excluded middle. < 1518978432 149387 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1518978432 478053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Well I have a ton of lemmas stating "there exists a Minsky machine M such that..." < 1518978618 438278 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok, now I'm thinking of the ending of the Smullyan mockingbird book, musing about whether there's a bird that can solve the halting problem < 1518978643 262915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: and while if you looked at the proofs you'd find that they're all constructive, there is no direct way of getting at a compilation function. < 1518978699 263745 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is there an evaluator function, one that can also recognize invalid programs, for the original language? < 1518978763 990602 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. there's a nat_to_ce_set :: nat => nat set. (I suppose invalid programs become the empty set? I haven't checked.) < 1518978780 777174 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("ce" = computably enumerable = recursively enumerable) < 1518978798 292926 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok < 1518978930 697553 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Recursive inseparability is a 1953 innovation that I learned about two years ago... I really wonder why it isn't taught in every computability theory course.) < 1518978989 157701 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because Morse-Code is not taught in Schools. < 1518978992 225054 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :;=P < 1518979040 698044 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1518979057 63569 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prime example: (assuming consistency) The set of provable formulas and the set of disprovable formulas in Peano Arithmetic are recursively inseparable: there is no decidable set that contains all the provable formulas and none of the disprovable ones. The beauty is that this doesn't say anything about the formulas that are neither provable or disprovable... < 1518979063 339997 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, can you solve the halting problem? < 1518979063 677599 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: well, when you define cond, that is.)) < 1518979098 589623 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, I think I heard that theorem < 1518979171 860963 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more useful example are Turing Machines that can accept or reject, or run forever; the set of TM configurations that halt in an accept stated, and the set of TM configurations that halt in a reject state, are recursively inseparable. < 1518979187 394030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/stated/state/ < 1518979203 754014 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :9😸 < 1518979233 728371 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, that's more or less equivalent < 1518979354 587501 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :A less obvious example are PCP problems that have a finite solution, and PCP problems that have no infinite solution. (For example, (1,11) has the infinite solution (1*,1*) arising from appending (1,11) to itself over and over again) < 1518979516 648366 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1518979669 423584 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1518979681 761648 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Infinity. ☺ < 1518979725 178086 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, that is what I really want to have... < 1518979756 815607 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :,o0(Toeoeoe-roeoeoeoe) < 1518979775 522825 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Minsky machines are my intermediate model of computation. < 1518979775 961429 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those Coincidents... < 1518979780 134494 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Marv < 1518979784 889939 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1518979788 399354 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13poridgecoin 04s17057034167130coin 07landcoin 08contumcoin 09ointecoin 02audacoin 06idecoin 13]coin 04gruptorcoin 07xxvcoin 08jumpcoin 09deltapecoin 02hevnarylangtheonchurchwaynomialcoin 06xivcoin 13spielcoin 04whittlecoin 07akcrcoin 08angcoin 09atheteembertyscraftermdcoin 02itfcoin < 1518979834 268847 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1518979850 535735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: you spoke of coin-cidents? < 1518979858 703723 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1518979879 68514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1518979880 883715 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02wikipwritoncoin 06gubacoin 13nhiucoin 04obfecoin 07aheuiculus'scoin 08obftecoin 09minlinksencoin 02bolcoin 06chologifruincoin 13parcoin 04archwaycoin 07brocarmcoin 08musicontroncoin 09madncoin 02eningcoin 06persetcoin 13autcoin 04surangcoin 07unbocoin 08turingcoin < 1518979888 3514 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1518979895 421606 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think those are better. < 1518979909 254120 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems so. < 1518979915 894747 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turingcoin, archwaycoin < 1518979926 203229 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :B-) < 1518979936 532074 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words < 1518979938 58008 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keili < 1518980201 853330 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kewl < 1518981112 717068 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1518981949 939174 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518982509 867579 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1518982791 798727 :Melvar`!~melvar@ip-2-203-93-122.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1518983457 684178 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1518983557 53472 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-000-149-205.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1518985879 793418 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1518986106 261418 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1518986633 461846 :augur!~augur@72.22.150.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518986777 776711 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518987786 718895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I have programs reading three vector formats: Fuun RNA, Janome Embroidery Format, and DRAWX vector format. I did not write the program that can convert a raster picture into such format, because I do not know much about cross-stitch (or about embroidery in general) to do so. Do you know? < 1518988077 644504 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't, but I think some teams have effectively developped a raster image to Fuun DNA compiler to solve the contest. < 1518988112 79531 :wob_jonas!b03f180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.11 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky because it's a deliberately esoteric vector format. < 1518988192 889330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although in that case you don't need any stitches, at least. Still, it is perhaps something to be seen; I have not seen such a thing < 1518988558 901965 :moei!~moei@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518990136 464852 :augur!~augur@72.22.150.201 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1518990178 783028 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1518990292 929776 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1518991384 102330 :aeyxa!44069839@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.6.152.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518991427 204691 :jaboja!~jaboja@jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1518991427 302333 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1518992353 635980 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1518992806 204345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the GLOGG container format I made up? It is similar to Ogg format, although the header is normally only 22 bytes long (but can vary), and there is a few other functions included (all optional, though), and it uses a different mechanism to identify codecs (they are identified by a UUID, given as part of the control data, although the control data is optional anyways). Converting Ogg->GLOGG should not be difficult; any existing file shou < 1518992856 246530 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1518993193 353216 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any codec suitable for Ogg will be suitable with this new format too, although it will help to define the UUID for each such codec. < 1518994179 886326 :laerling!~laerling@unaffiliated/laerling QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1518994211 803054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how many of your file format extensions have, you know, become standards? < 1518994335 342811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,i how may of your oil companies have, you know, become Standard? < 1518994594 73218 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: None as far as I know. I don't know about future, though; things in future is difficult to predict. < 1518994619 582197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I predict things in the past. < 1518994891 877468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the document? (I have recently added a "primary bit" to the control flags. Like the rest of the control data, it is optional.) < 1518994941 416676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( of course not? ) < 1518995023 116168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/glogg < 1518995039 653849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afterward, I can make up another file with the description of the caption codec. < 1518995056 352322 :LKoen!~LKoen@vbo91-1-82-238-218-67.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1518995142 200193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can mention your complaint about anything I may have made a mistake, or other kind of complaints or questions. < 1518995255 446337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e does not like this < 1518995355 535364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've skimmed the document. The only motivation I see is that a person naming themselves zzo38 "don't like the way [OGG] uses to determine codecs."... presumably GLOGG improves on this. < 1518995380 920535 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bet is that nobody will care. For now I can give one example. < 1518995406 189635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, I mean nobody besides the author, I'll give zzo38 that much credit.) < 1518995596 324900 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, OK. < 1518995754 991946 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it does do some other stuff too; it does not only provide an alternative way to determine codecs. You can also specify relation of streams, and index marks, and a few of the things from Ogg Skeleton (although some are omitted because they should properly belong in separate metadata streams). < 1518995778 193898 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1518995939 224513 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that you should present the problems you're perceiving with the state of the art (say, the Ogg format) up front. It takes time to try to reverse engineer the problem from the solution (which tends to also require understanding the original), and I for one am not willing to invest that time in order to figure out whether I even care about the problem at all. OTOH, if you manage to... < 1518995945 196571 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...convince me that there *is* a problem worth solving, then I'd be much happier to try to understand the proposed solution. < 1518995980 572986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1518995988 746358 :augur!~augur@65.48.130.123 JOIN :#esoteric < 1518996130 680488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem is that they fail to specify how multiple streams are related to each other. Sometimes this isn't important, but sometimes it will be relevant. That's why it is an optional feature. < 1518996174 393222 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric > 1518996316 584526 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54148&oldid=54143 5* 03Alcofrisbas 5* (+216) 10/* Introductions */ < 1518996367 160149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I experience heightened levels of indifference :P < 1518996385 335416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher than your usual? < 1518996395 959735 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares? < 1518996412 400855 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1518996413 514990 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. < 1518996540 736413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm hipster game, was that Braid or the Witless? < 1518996569 811908 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't care about that either. < 1518996592 784068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sentence doesn't look very Swedish... < 1518996602 828488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg int-e < 1518996610 223793 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10861:2017-05-03 le//rn_append int-e//Er hat ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. \ 10125:2017-01-12 slwd int-e//s;.$;, men han gillar dissonans.; \ 9127:2016-09-30 learn_append int-e Hen gillar inte f\xc3\xa4rger. \ 7535:2016-04-25 learn_append int-e Hen st\xc3\xa5r f\xc3\xb6r sig sj\xc3\xa4lv. \ 7232:2016-03-14 < 1518996619 40502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1518996644 460066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was SSR. < 1518996648 219146 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1518996660 544431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:22:36 http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ssr.png <-- oh nein, ich habe schon wieder ein Hipster-Spiel gekauft. (aber nicht zum Vollpreis, gibt grad ein humble bundle) < 1518996679 58811 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note the "schon wieder" < 1518996704 339745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :("yet again", I guess) < 1518996772 297893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you kauft any Hipster-Spielen since then? < 1518996861 665380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multimedia container formats other than Ogg do exist, but most of them are too complicated it look like. < 1518997059 446850 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1518997354 12408 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well tbqh I don't even know what a "hipster game" is... I've seen the label in a couple of game reviews. I think I had found some top-ten of hipster games somewhere just before I wrote that... < 1518997409 620850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it sounds like "is being recommended on linkedin" ;-) < 1518997461 918662 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless, bedtime. < 1518997582 774995 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added a few other functions too, such as reverse relations (useful for captions), and passthrough mode (useful for playing back stereovision videos on non-stereovision implementations without causing additional problems), although these are not the only uses of these functions; they may be used for whatever you find them useful for. < 1518997677 62798 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: But if you want to know about games I regretted buying recently, I'd name "What remains of Edith Finch" and "Oxenfree". < 1518997694 180382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wwhy did you regret buying them? < 1518997715 876998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you would like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFlG7KN6OqY < 1518997842 601228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are essentially linear (the former more so than the latter)... the latter is ultimately about relationships among a bunch of teenagers, otherwise it's just running around finding various spots on a map. < 1518997883 453925 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say bedtime? I think I said bedtime. It is bedtime. Good night.