< 1521417602 613786 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb2build2 - http://znc.in < 1521417619 864119 :danieljabailey!~danieljab@cpc75709-york6-2-0-cust725.7-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1521418857 416582 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54399 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+944) 10Add TLOWScript > 1521418950 980807 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54400&oldid=54366 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+17) 10/* T */ > 1521418985 976511 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54401&oldid=54399 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+0) 10 < 1521419032 334724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521419143 742429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone had more thoughts of the I/D machine? or has the initial enthusiasm worn off? < 1521419161 577928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering if it's good for proving things TC but few languages seem to have the right primitives < 1521419169 741489 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm still enthusiastic about the M:tG proof < 1521419174 872545 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write that down < 1521419295 742650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should I < 1521419306 789836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about getting back to it, the I/D machine was a bit of an abstraction < 1521419327 504161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already written a couple of background pages about it but may want to throw them out and start again, I think I'm aiming at the wrong level of abstraction for the readers I want < 1521419336 903898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they helped me to get my thoughts in order (and find the tournament rules issue) < 1521419354 650824 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which tournament rules issue? < 1521419366 10058 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the comprehensive rules problem about the infinite loops? < 1521419591 55209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, slow play rules < 1521419592 894582 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/D is actually quite good for virtual machines < 1521419606 829696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that say you aren't allowed to continue a loop without knowledge of the iterations and expected end state > 1521419775 793919 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54402&oldid=54401 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+115) 10 < 1521420044 833987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: sorry for my connection < 1521420059 183613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521420176 151930 :Roger9_!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the I/D machine? < 1521420320 847111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/I/D_machine < 1521420371 238621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as a one line summary: a language with data pointer (initially 0) and unbounded RAM of unbounded elements (initially all 0) and two commands; I increments the target of the data pointer, D assigns the value in the data pointer's target back to the data pointer; the program repeats forever in an implicit loop < 1521420395 510028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that you can fully specify it in one line of IRC < 1521420559 138029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the winner for the shortest specification may go to The Waterfall Model, which can be fully specified in 4 bytes of [[e:Jelly] : +"Ṃẞ (Jelly uses an encoding where Ṃ and ẞ are each single bytes) < 1521420580 675806 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but doesn't that cheat by not including the loop? < 1521420599 148010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the Jelly impl? that's what the ß (or is it ẞ) means < 1521420606 687891 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1521420625 193957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"run the main program recursively", so putting it at the end of the program gives you an infinite loop via tail-recursion < 1521420637 143034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at this I'm very suspicious I've used the wrong case of ß, I'll have to fix that at some point < 1521420660 559798 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521420671 486646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other commands are + meaning "add", " meaning "corresponding elements", and Ṃ meaning "minimum" < 1521420712 566402 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes minimum of rows by comparing them lexicographically? < 1521420717 797867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1521420722 518091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only the first element actually gets compared < 1521420768 79207 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1521420768 837724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, the "corresponding elements" are of the minimum and of the full matrix < 1521420783 533637 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that makes sense < 1521420784 775416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first element of the minimum gets added to the first row of the matrix, the second element of the minimum to the second row of the matrix, and so on < 1521420808 713936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing languages are great, they just give you a big mix of nouns and verbs and adjectives and the like < 1521420823 986171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you string them together and it figures out what you mean from context (with rules that are objectively defined but often quite complex) < 1521420847 358313 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all golfing languages are like that, but yeah < 1521420871 266167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it is ß that should be used < 1521420887 687117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: right, others have entirely meaning sets for different contexts, Japt for example < 1521420889 737634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that as much though < 1521420897 767103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good golfing language is like a good natural language < 1521420904 386451 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1521420908 162438 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely meaning sets? < 1521420930 44670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the code determines the context of any particular command via running the code up to it < 1521420940 105917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what it does depends on the context and the various possible meanings don't need to be correlated at all < 1521421019 143725 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( garden path programming ) < 1521421085 383396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, for example, f in Japt will act as an array intersection operation if run on an array (with a few other options), but if you give it a number instead, it'll do a floor operation < 1521421088 854572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those have nothing in common < 1521421171 720816 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( the result will never be larger than the input(s) ) < 1521421211 107599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Jelly, Ḟ will floor a number or floor every element of an array; f will take the intersection of arrays, and treat numbers in its argument as an array of the integers from 1 to the number inclusive < 1521421227 584483 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A short AWK program to change multiple blank lines into a single blank line: x+(x=NF) < 1521421260 480246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sed you could write it as /^$/d I think < 1521421268 527679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1521421275 278861 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wtf < 1521421278 593514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that changes multiple newlines into a single newline < 1521421282 770670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a different operation < 1521421398 913039 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will that Jelly program implementing Waterfall use bignums? because I don't think fixed sized numbers are enough to make Waterfall reasonably usable, with the exponential slowdown < 1521421434 357331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bignums < 1521421442 579027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that language is exponentially slower than Waterfall < 1521421455 785365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Jelly uses bignums by default; it has a variant called M which uses computable reals) < 1521421462 954104 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1521421469 175505 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computable reals? < 1521421473 442199 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has that ever been implemented? < 1521421497 340651 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that deletes blank lines, which is different to what I wrote. In sed if there is a command to match a regular expression across multiple lines then you can do what I mentioned < 1521421513 141744 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's already very few implementations that can do arithmetic on arbitrary algebraic numbers < 1521421533 130340 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you do it in sed with a comma thingy? < 1521421544 510107 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /^$/,/^$/d or something < 1521421557 406904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there are drop-in computable reals libraries for many languages < 1521421588 518299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they tend to struggle when comparing them, if two computable reals are actually equal then a comparison between them tends to cause an infinite loop < 1521421601 181762 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1521421604 495075 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy without comparing < 1521421606 857996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're known to be ints or rationals or something similarly easy to compare < 1521421689 440996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: That doesn't work (I tried it). < 1521421722 634763 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, but something like that maybe? with an added a command or something < 1521421728 157819 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good at sed < 1521421779 883647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not that good at it either, but I do know awk, which is why, I wrote the program in awk instead. < 1521421790 402412 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program looks crazy < 1521421801 406347 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that expression is applied as a condition for an implicit print, right? < 1521421818 576243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is applied as a condition for an inplicit print. < 1521421820 390065 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NF tells the number of fields < 1521421836 605581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1521421904 702568 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, that actually makes sense < 1521423390 148819 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I still say that the slow play stuff doesn't matter, the opponent just has to call a judge if he can't figure out how the loop works < 1521423456 637871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "foo\nbar\n\nbaz\n\n\n\nquux\n" | sed -e 's/^$/x/;tx;x;s/.*x.*//;Ty;p;:y;x;p;d;:x;H;d' < 1521423457 565627 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo \ bar \ \ baz \ \ quux < 1521423487 477759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really should be a lot simpler, but for some reason the simpler things weren't working. sed can be a little subtle when it comes to newlines. < 1521423529 822685 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice < 1521423580 60862 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about tr \\n: :\\n | sed 's/:::*/::/ | tr \\n: :\\n < 1521423588 852679 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! damn typo < 1521423593 662714 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr \\n: :\\n | sed s/:::*/::/ | tr \\n: :\\n < 1521423611 239852 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the regex needs to be a bit more complicated if you want to accept lines with only whitespace as blanks < 1521423617 858568 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I think it's workable < 1521423624 534678 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should really escape that star < 1521423628 326233 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr \\n: :\\n | sed s/:::\*/::/ | tr \\n: :\\n < 1521423744 590640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds plausible, and pretty clever. < 1521423757 850502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sed thing basically appends a 'x' marker to the hold space on every empty line, and on non-empty lines prints out an extra newline before the original contents. < 1521423772 350844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Iff there's an 'x' in the hold space, that is.) < 1521423826 439166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "foo\nbar\n\nbaz\n\n\n\nquux\n" | tr '\n:' ':\n' | sed 's/:::*/::/g' | tr '\n:' ':\n' < 1521423827 364974 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1521423827 739517 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo \ bar \ \ baz \ \ quux < 1521423898 960272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wanted it to just copy append empty lines to the hold space and then s/\n\n*/\n/ the hold space before prepending it, but I think the hold space operations do some implicit newlining, or something.) < 1521423923 846830 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed is a terrible programming language < 1521424140 313091 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1521424302 746021 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: SQUISHY CHICKEN < 1521424820 7649 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1521425041 808639 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54403&oldid=54402 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+27) 10 < 1521425073 27103 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521426726 654198 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521426883 892741 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521427149 889770 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1521427373 6312 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521427514 728717 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1521427652 604973 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1521428036 422946 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521428400 607398 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521428807 410472 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521429085 309831 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521430459 184286 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521431164 27175 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521431446 22207 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521432525 157244 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521432943 77210 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521433039 468732 :wob_jonas!b03f18e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.232 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1521433209 66983 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521435201 719374 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521435227 375287 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1521435490 924743 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Incident14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54404&oldid=51822 5* 03Ais523 5* (+628) 10/* Computational class */ explain the TCness proof (both that the pretty-print half is on the talk page, and that the translation from slightly restricted Minsky machines is in the repo; also mentoin the TAFMl1 connection) < 1521435511 330954 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521437013 784722 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: Found 1 in /dev/zero < 1521438921 877549 :chal_!60724189@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.114.65.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521439141 292277 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1521439184 868374 :chal_!60724189@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.114.65.137 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521439419 673965 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521439677 695366 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521439878 672771 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521440068 816487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1521440697 719056 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521441277 398180 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521441529 307035 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521442844 776406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this in a C program in order to indent output lines: printf("\n%*s",x,""); How common is such a thing in a C code? < 1521443253 207527 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521443541 68582 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1521443623 96599 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521443787 569961 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Hi!)S < 1521443787 630355 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! < 1521443868 965174 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1) (2) (3) S < 1521443868 986824 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1521443880 978492 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1 2 3)S < 1521443881 2211 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 < 1521443897 498855 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::!()^ < 1521443916 391042 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul :!(2)^ < 1521443916 413121 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1521443929 537898 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1521443929 703519 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :danil: it should not be difficult to integrate cml a distributed message-passing device. < 1521443949 486711 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/ < 1521443972 555883 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what over bots are here? < 1521444158 363692 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also lambdabot and HackEgo < 1521444619 110830 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1521445091 751069 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521445230 674393 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521445241 407115 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1521445254 478784 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x.x+1 < 1521445337 138664 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++>++<++ < 1521445373 598353 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdabot implements Haskell and needs > before the Haskell codes (although there are other commands too, such as weather reports). < 1521445403 946371 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1521445421 678337 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1521445483 58706 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521445570 220786 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. What about HackEgo? < 1521445588 791288 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1521445941 387031 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446153 453345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t head.(>>=(\(x,y)->x<$guard y)).zip[0..].nub.sort < 1521446155 441938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Enum c, Num c) => [Bool] -> c < 1521446248 336776 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t head.(>>=(\(x,y)->x<$guard(x/=y))).zip[0..].nub.sort < 1521446250 395488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ord c, Enum c, Num c) => [c] -> c < 1521446290 367635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ( head.(>>=(\(x,y)->x<$guard(x/=y))).zip[0..].nub.sort ) [9,0,5,3,6,0,1,2,2,3,4] < 1521446293 253322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1521446322 825885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ( head.(>>=(\(x,y)->x<$guard(x/=y))).zip[0..].nub.sort ) [3,7,13,15,0,1,0] < 1521446325 683214 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1521446376 58471 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil < 1521446416 608076 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: /dev/null is full < 1521446460 288384 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446463 267763 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1521446527 382844 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446553 672000 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446556 314946 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1521446573 750139 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :danil: HackEgo has many things < 1521446599 592005 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446602 571110 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Client Quit < 1521446609 486203 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1521446657 298634 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446664 92835 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What ones < 1521446673 875035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fst.head.filter(uncurry(/=)).zip[0..].nub.sort < 1521446676 175534 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ord b, Enum b, Num b) => [b] -> b < 1521446690 86688 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool stuff! < 1521446692 765207 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1521446735 226519 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :danil: HackEgo runs UNIX commands including whatever programs are put in. < 1521446746 881108 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521446749 774040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :danil: HackEgo runs UNIX commands including whatever programs are put in. < 1521446755 507958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why you quit and reenter so many times? < 1521446785 228707 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a laptop whoes screen falls. So everytime i log out. < 1521446804 582351 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop suspends when screen shut. < 1521446835 140861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, perhaps you should fix that (perhaps by putting something to hold it up, or changing the setting so that it does not suspend) < 1521446871 442917 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea! Thank you. < 1521446922 943386 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: echo hi < 1521446969 30001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the prefix `` or ``` (the difference is that ``` uses the C locale, but `` uses Unicode locale) < 1521446973 901984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo hi < 1521446975 136615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1521447009 721513 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: ``` cat hi < 1521447021 167843 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat hi < 1521447022 789056 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: hi: No such file or directory < 1521447031 250632 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat < 1521447033 936532 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1521447047 365837 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` ls < 1521447056 174628 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ izash.c \ karma \ le \ lib \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quines \ quinor \ quotes \ share \ src \ test2 \ testfile \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom < 1521447062 586125 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521447063 739007 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also a webpage with a list of all of the files < 1521447085 100883 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. esobible? < 1521447093 592473 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cd esobible < 1521447094 832235 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521447114 681222 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cd wisdom < 1521447116 182872 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521447124 111613 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :```ls < 1521447124 918393 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``ls: not found < 1521447127 743564 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command won't persist so cd won't help if used by itself < 1521447144 26212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the web page at: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/ < 1521447155 580724 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Thanks. < 1521447165 266127 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you only want to view the files rather than execute them, you can look there. < 1521447203 504605 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a idea for a language! < 1521447216 21695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What idea? < 1521447369 120204 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a accumulator and a deliverer. They are called accumulator and shipping port. You need to take a amount of objects from the deliverer and put them into the accumulator. PS: there are infinity accumulators, and all of 'em can act as deliverers < 1521447484 921795 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it can act as a 'tape'! Or, if we add a limit to allow only 1 or no objects to be delivered, it is a Turing-complete thing! < 1521447564 729596 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I implement that? < 1521447612 911810 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here is a example: 210210210. 0 means to come back. < 1521447841 584006 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1521447841 742870 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :danil: that doesn't necessarily have to study up on my window sill < 1521447893 247896 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very True. < 1521447924 15877 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1)S(0)S(1)S < 1521447924 38282 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 < 1521448143 571307 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (9) < 1521448143 630356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1521448176 934608 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Underload!)S()s < 1521448176 956360 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload! ...bad insn! < 1521448212 924816 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ( head.(>>=(\(x,y)->x<$guard(x/=y))).zip[0..].nub.sort ) [3,7,13,15,0,0] < 1521448216 368763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1521448280 835334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write other Haskell codes too; that is not the only possibility < 1521448328 214251 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you like my idea? < 1521448360 563828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? accounting < 1521448362 623486 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⟨BAL|FSV⟩ = 0 < 1521448370 850015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but you can add it into esolang wiki, and then you can see. < 1521448381 321889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can you explain the accounting equation? < 1521448397 659359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is BAL covariant and FSV contravariant? < 1521448462 688204 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?What is the accounting equation? < 1521448463 139632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about is. < 1521448485 696101 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermmmmmmmm..................................................................................................................................................................................... < 1521448600 540991 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I would think so. can vary, but only the way that remains orthogonal to Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1521449768 107745 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote bad PR to < 1521449769 121703 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1521449783 566085 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote experimenting with clients < 1521449784 313008 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :432) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1521449803 163333 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got two IRC clients pointing at the same bouncer on the same computer now < 1521449896 487049 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going to be confusing < 1521449923 15542 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda 1 2 3. s(2+3)= simple de-bruijn lambda calculus with typed elements. < 1521449960 142029 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1)S(0)S(1)S(1+2+3+4+5) < 1521449960 164083 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 < 1521449980 68698 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1)S(0)S(1)S(1+2+3+4+5)S < 1521449980 126521 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1011+2+3+4+5 < 1521450108 70672 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good bye! < 1521450111 744886 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil < 1521450540 868879 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521450553 492804 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im back! < 1521450635 601204 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man quote < 1521450636 839752 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try. < 1521450648 45216 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1521450650 744974 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :701) Why does CL get called functional? it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic. < 1521450800 868920 :tromp!~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521450854 957539 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`QUOTE < 1521450855 814371 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: QUOTE: not found < 1521450861 587756 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1521450862 197865 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) when everyone else was busy going "ewwww, comic sans!" I was reading the text and learned everything < 1521450875 520963 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil < 1521451978 940819 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-glxbfngcdirussaj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1521451989 94315 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1521452097 436953 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1521452384 908817 :optimus[m]!optimusmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wxqjlccshohfhvtq QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1521452468 313202 :optimus[m]!optimusmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zfhbuscgsfmekpkz JOIN :#esoteric < 1521452589 421942 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1521452619 292959 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1521453461 42182 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521453481 632157 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (1)S < 1521453481 654662 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1521453753 151737 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net NICK :avacaso < 1521453886 925953 :avacaso!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2+3 < 1521453901 916859 :avacaso!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (89898989898989899899898989)S < 1521453901 974498 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :89898989898989899899898989 < 1521454135 395061 :avacaso!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: avacaso < 1521454468 530027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar lowi < 1521454469 507139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 190950Z 06004KT 020V100 7000 -SN FEW008 SCT012 BKN025 M02/M04 Q1004 R08/29//95 TEMPO 4000 BR < 1521455978 470274 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| :| :| < 1521455998 377592 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I learned that one of my dependencies is attempting to use a non-zero terminated Rust string as a zero-terminated C string < 1521457438 196180 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: that sounds unfortunate < 1521459466 390210 :avacaso!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521459605 446148 :avacaso!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1521460229 389032 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1521461092 289411 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521461126 677502 :Deewiant!~deewiant@fr1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1521461644 717234 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric > 1521461970 285377 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Singingbanana14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54405&oldid=54142 5* 03Singingbanana 5* (+74) 10 > 1521462009 704837 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Singingbanana14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54406&oldid=54405 5* 03Singingbanana 5* (-1) 10 < 1521462980 214971 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521462991 686571 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net NICK :dftgf < 1521463001 638804 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1521463729 493446 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521463734 575204 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1521463740 24583 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (0)S((0)(1))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ < 1521463740 59270 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! < 1521463767 666645 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1521463791 988764 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^^:^^^:^^^^:^^^^^)S < 1521463815 78579 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^^:^^:^^^:^^^^)S < 1521463815 101090 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^:^^:^^^:^^^^ < 1521463868 724987 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^:^^:^^^) ()~(((())~a < 1521463883 102702 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521463906 942581 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^:^^:^^^^)()~(((())~a < 1521463907 2402 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...unterminated (! < 1521464213 319686 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1521464349 138254 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1521464428 671223 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1521464496 305969 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: dftgf < 1521464708 599322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (aS(:^)S):^ < 1521464708 658532 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aS(:^)S):^ < 1521464714 55799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quinest of languages. < 1521465675 87513 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521465747 440043 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon JOIN :#esoteric < 1521465869 539566 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1521465878 730130 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1521465879 93164 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dftgf: choosing " left if it's tails" produces exactly the same problem ( having two fnord names for all the four times... no idea what the number is < 1521465995 437968 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: dftgf < 1521466008 1412 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1521466019 373109 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise < 1521466424 434135 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1521467106 53560 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric > 1521467790 276462 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Domino14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=54407 5* 03Singingbanana 5* (+429) 10Created page with "Domino is a Turing complete programming language based on dominoes. ====Examples==== A or gate:
 | | |       | | | | | | 
A XOR:
 | | | |       -       - <..."
> 1521467833 467298 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Domino14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54408&oldid=54407 5* 03Singingbanana 5* (-3) 10Deleted random " Sign.
< 1521468141 846838 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@10-36-178-69.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1521468160 44427 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: dftgf
< 1521469785 864435 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521470816 174862 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1521470882 8833 :dftgf!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: dftgf
< 1521471178 73735 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521471868 738211 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil
< 1521474050 995952 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521474075 309401 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: printing spaces with printf width, I think that's normal and other people do that too
< 1521474085 987885 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reasonable use for printf
< 1521474098 378375 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521474099 783751 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love printf by the way
< 1521474280 952142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1521474728 138870 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1521474731 524265 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too
< 1521474734 429861 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pure C pwns
< 1521474736 554886 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is evil
< 1521474760 737973 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not. I love C++ too.
< 1521474764 221455 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1521474776 153957 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just had moar to do with C than with C++ in his Life
< 1521474790 908814 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :If i used C++ moar i would probably learn to love it as well.  ☺
< 1521474791 594400 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of the system logs (auth.log, syslog, kern.log) are written too often, what should be done about that?
< 1521474792 719035 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :9😸
< 1521474808 143543 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Look at Your syslogd or Clone?
< 1521474816 320079 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks nowadays evil systemd even does most of the Logging ☹
< 1521474913 488545 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: there's nothing wrong with that. C is fine for some things. Even if there's a lot I don't understand about it.
< 1521474948 61677 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: change the configuration of your syslogd
< 1521474992 874983 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? log
< 1521474994 888891 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logs: see channel topic.
< 1521475014 100005 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? clog
< 1521475015 314278 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1521475138 143666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked in dmesg and found the message "sr0: CDROM not ready.  Make sure there is a disc in the drive." several times even though I am not trying to use the CDROM, as well as a message that says "sd 3:0:0:0: [sda]  Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed". Nevertheless the computer seems to work. Why are these error messages in there?
< 1521475186 217562 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe some process is trying to use sr0 even though you don't?
< 1521475192 907501 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh wait
< 1521475203 354862 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that second message about sda is more worrysome
< 1521475215 148847 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sda a hard disk you have data on?
< 1521475223 326174 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be bad
< 1521475261 199756 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your disk or disk controller might be dying. obviously that's unpredictable, it could die in a minute or last for years.
< 1521475277 964193 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm always worried if I see that kind of IO error message about a hard disk
< 1521475292 399817 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not when I see it for a removable media like a floppy or CD, there it's normal)
< 1521475321 106077 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the floppy or CD can get unusable too, but a hard disk costs more than a hundred times as much as a floppy or CD)
< 1521475457 362231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is a hard disk, although smartctl does not report any problem with any SMART attributes. It reports temperature as 29, but I do not know what temperature should be proper.
< 1521475457 829335 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CDROM message is irrelevant, I'd ignore it unless you have other problems with the optical drive near the same time
< 1521475478 440108 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :temperature 29? what is that measured in? degrees celsius?
< 1521475511 439180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is Celsius
< 1521475546 693994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It says "Temperature_Celsius")
< 1521475546 843377 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: Yes, for Example the Linux-Kernel would probably suck if written in C++
< 1521475549 899574 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1521475556 577695 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would depend on what Libraries You include
< 1521475567 445425 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Kernel probably will not have the normal stdlibs
< 1521475579 724521 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SymbianOS is not _that_ bad either
< 1521475585 782136 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being fully C++
< 1521475592 233788 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APic: that's a matter of an age old debate, and, in any case, the kernel is already written in a really strange dialect of C, so if it were written in C++, then it would be written in a strange dialect of C++ too
< 1521475605 821103 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :But i still liked very much when Nokia released the OpenC-Stuffs for the E90 back then
< 1521475618 238562 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where You could do Unix-C-Stuffs like i was used to
< 1521475619 123555 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do kernel programming anyway, and I have no problem with some userland programs or libraries being written in C either
< 1521475625 501011 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1521475625 904337 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing C++ because I hate C or anything
< 1521475633 564469 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good
< 1521475638 755984 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hate is generelly a bad Feeling
< 1521475641 813883 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Attitude
< 1521475643 338067 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using C++ because it's a great tool and I can accomplish a lot with it, including at work
< 1521475648 654080 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yah
< 1521475653 734151 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I do have hate. it's just not directed at C
< 1521475664 942428 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are better targets
< 1521475770 467213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what temperature is reasonable for the hard drive? (It says 29 under VALUE, and 50 under WORST, and 0 under THRESH)
< 1521475827 578892 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a hardware guy, so I don't really know, but I think anything between 10 and 50 degrees celsius is definitely fine, anything above 100 degrees celsius is bad, and for the rest I have no idea
< 1521475867 17611 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you make sure to occasionally vacuum the dust accumulated in the computer
< 1521475972 731774 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a special vacuum cleaner for use with the computer (I have been trying to acquire one).
< 1521476068 144479 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a special vacuum cleaner. An ordinary vacuum cleaner mostly works, except possibly for the cooling grills and fans.  For there, a vacuum cleaner doesn't help, but you might use either compressed air cylinders or an electric compressed air blower.
< 1521476123 524356 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1521476251 253925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although I have been told that a special vacuum cleaner is required
< 1521476343 802001 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   070   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       30 (Min/Max 12/30)
< 1521476346 769536 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   069   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       31 (Min/Max 12/36)
< 1521476381 652274 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other Harddisk does not seem to deliver that Information to SMART
< 1521476446 819136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have read is that Seagate stores the actual temperature in VALUE and WORST on attribute 194 (rather than the normalized value like it is supposed to do), and it does not have attribute 190
< 1521476732 228196 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listen to hardware guys you trust, not me. I'm not good at hardware, my advice there is worthless.
< 1521476779 260047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I don't know any hardware guys
< 1521476835 146533 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: a few years ago one of my friends was horrified to discover that a) I put together my own PC, and B) I somehow was using far fewer screws than should be possible
< 1521476848 434208 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this was after my graphics card fell out)
< 1521476850 360584 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's easier if you work in CS and you have coworkers who do hardware.
< 1521476855 335260 :sleffy!~sleffy@c-24-7-67-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1521476879 542498 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanebventions
< 1521476881 979299 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, Italian, the grace period, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
< 1521476906 612771 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. screwless computers aren't listed there
< 1521476912 604138 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tanebventions: foods
< 1521476914 11259 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Culinary tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, weetoflakes, mushrooms, nutella, and cognac.
< 1521476915 267457 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's edible
< 1521476919 430985 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not there either
< 1521476923 617215 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nutella
< 1521476925 659562 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nutella is a nutty substance. Taneb invented it for use in his automatic squirrel feeders.
< 1521476933 809263 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:: PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cognac
< 1521476935 380118 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cognac is named for its strong cognitive effects. Taneb invented it, then somehow managed to keep it off the illegal drugs list.
< 1521476955 26849 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` cat wisdom/hypo*
< 1521476957 337021 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/hypo*: No such file or directory
< 1521476973 217915 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``` echo wisdom/hyp*
< 1521476974 771283 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/hyperbolic geometry wisdom/hyperbolic group
< 1521476977 995968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also note that only 9% of the file system is in use.
< 1521477444 302557 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521477883 409601 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521478042 435701 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Client Quit
< 1521478075 169475 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521478540 491889 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:8184:5ec5:f952:61ba JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521479073 169636 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1521479156 852210 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also lack suitable backup media. I have a DVD writer drive but it does not work due to dust.
< 1521479213 272410 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can buy USB-connected DVD writers for cheap these days, or you can buy an USB3 external rack for SATA hard disks and buy multiple large hard disks
< 1521479249 439036 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this applies for home settings, not for businesses
< 1521479268 540077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have USB3
< 1521479281 505227 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:8184:5ec5:f952:61ba QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1521479343 717551 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do have blank DVDs.)
< 1521479360 910069 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imwoamhakdohykde JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521479365 710914 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521479495 952412 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1521479632 276943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't know what method should be used to make backups. What commands for backups are available on Linux?
< 1521479659 166902 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: danil
< 1521479701 869928 :ivzem!4db44db6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.180.77.182 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521479736 761898 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I usually just bring my home machine to single user so barely any process runs and I can get a consistent snapshot of the file system state without anything trying to change it, then use a variant of this script to make tarballs http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=922051
< 1521479757 748719 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all sorts of more sophisticated methods, but I don't bother
< 1521479791 371967 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that if you have some really important files, like the stereotypical thesis you're writing or thesis your spouse is writing, then make copies of those often and distribute copies everywhere
< 1521479907 959922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not really have anywhere to distribute copies, although many of my files are available for public download
< 1521479920 81723 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521479945 555137 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there's a famous quote on that
< 1521479963 351983 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What famous quote?
< 1521479979 120149 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;) – Linus Torvalds http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.3.91.960720095713.20645F-100000%40linux.cs.Helsinki.FI
< 1521480093 531168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a tape anyways. But, anyone who wishes to mirror some of my files may do so
< 1521480108 149806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, the ones that are public)
< 1521480121 948182 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that quote is from lots of years ago when hard disks were small and there were no home CD writers
< 1521480126 353582 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the gist still applies
< 1521480192 994937 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1521480342 297383 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521480515 810734 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1521480641 102411 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521480765 283559 :danil!~danil@cpc88836-newt35-2-0-cust780.19-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1521480881 10387 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? birthday
< 1521480883 414577 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :birthday? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
< 1521481013 955819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What version of perl do you need?
< 1521481209 374107 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that program was published in 2011, so perl 5.14 should definitely be enough, but I'd guess perl 5.10 might work too.
< 1521481231 931299 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although it isn't mentioned here, I later started to compress the tarballs with 7z instead of gzip
< 1521481286 64232 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but be careful, I don't really use the best backup practices
< 1521481293 303202 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even say I'm careless
< 1521481305 160321 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be better to ask someone more careful with this stuff
< 1521481345 533100 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although 7-Zip already includes the list of files anyways, so then I wouldn't know why you will also need tar?
< 1521481372 530021 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-zip doesn't save unix attributes like file owner and group and permissions and symlinks
< 1521481381 849452 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to save those for a full system backup
< 1521481412 519391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I should need to save permissions and symlinks
< 1521481429 927678 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also tar recognizes hard links when you archive all the fifty hard links to the git binary that git installs
< 1521481445 661021 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't recognize them when they're in separate archives, so the backup is a bit lossy that way
< 1521481610 81712 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I make the backup from a non-recursive bind mount of the root file system, so that other mounts (including the one that covers the bootstrap files in /dev etc) don't distract the backup
< 1521481705 920370 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe on if you want a working full backup of Linux, the device file /dev/console is important, it can be used before the devtmpfs is mounted over /dev , although this applies only if you're not using an initrd, which is getting rare these days
< 1521481723 230250 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's better to back up the files that are there in /dev rather than not back them up
< 1521481731 589326 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bind mount lets me do that
< 1521481775 729229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some of them are devices is it possible to back up such files? And, what is a bind mount?
< 1521482168 174519 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the devices, you just back up the meta-information stored on the file system, not the actual device, as in what device /dev/null and /dev/zero and /dev/console and /dev/fd0 etc refer to, not the actual contents of those devices. tar won't try to read the contents of the device files, just like how it doesn't try to read what a symlink points to
< 1521482168 274514 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1521482231 498323 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bind mount is a somewhat modern linux feature (although other unixes have similar) where you create a mount that isn't backed by a file system on a device, but just reflects (a subdirectory on) an existing mount in a different place on the file system. See the --bind option in man mount
< 1521482319 282954 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So eg. I create a bind mount with (mount --bind / /mnt/safe/root) then /mnt/safe/root/bin/sh will point to effectively the same file as /bin/sh , but this is not recursive, so if I have another file system mounted under /mnt/safe/kond then /mnt/safe/root/mnt/safe/kond will show the directory on the root file system, not the other file system that's
< 1521482319 398158 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mounted there in /
< 1521482350 442436 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a recursive bind mount with the mount --rbind option that does reflect the other mounts, but that's not what I want here.
< 1521482374 569203 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously if you have data on multiple file systems, then you may want to back those up too.
< 1521482572 928592 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's how it works. I do not have multiple file systems
< 1521482674 434301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to perform incremental backups while the system is running?
< 1521483092 686475 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I back everything up to DVD
< 1521483513 61566 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1521484487 693824 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: performing backups while the system is running is much more difficult, because you have to be very careful not to end up in an inconsistent state, like where some data is moved from one directory to another, and you back up both directories when the data is in the other.
< 1521484547 868769 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are application-specific tricks (eg. subversion gives like four different ways to create a consistent copy of a repository), and there's modern solutions supported by the kernel and the file system, but I don't know how these work and I'm not the right person to ask.
< 1521484639 443646 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my home machine, I already turn off the computer often, so I can afford to stop most other processes when I'm creating the backup (the tarballs to a hard disk that is; I can run the system while I write the tarballs to DVD), and I can manage small but important files (like the stereotypical thesis) in a case by case basis (eg. I don't work on t
< 1521484639 597783 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thesis while I make a backup copy of it).
< 1521484668 51219 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: ok, but what's your process of backing up everything to DVD? can you be a bit more specific?
< 1521484899 782680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you lease the file while making a backup of it?
< 1521484933 888275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If the lease is broken, it can remember that it has not backed up that file and try again later)
< 1521485020 56114 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I just burn a new set of dvds aveyr few months
< 1521485106 930480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or will leasing the files not help?
< 1521485111 340131 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have any large files so my whole home directory fits on 3 DVD's
< 1521485129 602158 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... used to fit on only one tho
< 1521485196 914252 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep them in envelopes with the date I burned them written on them
< 1521485230 338473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the files on my computer might fit on three DVDs, but I have not tested this yet
< 1521485346 1756 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zex1glfa1xy3qc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1521485368 249874 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those, it's two DVD's worth of saved mp3's
< 1521485375 265818 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one with everything else
< 1521485430 94033 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have dvd envelopes with "December 2017 music collection part 1"
< 1521485433 813452 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1521485460 553773 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd have to lease all files (and all directories) at the same time, and if that was possible, it's more or less than same as stopping or suspending the system because nobody can write anything
< 1521485515 187335 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: do you store some of the backup DVDs in places other than the home where the computer is?
< 1521485539 21260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My backups are in a different country than the computer.
< 1521485546 466956 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think about a quarter of my backups is photos, and this ratio will just increase as I'm doing more and more photography
< 1521485553 949006 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice
< 1521485586 430885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: TBH, it's really just an artefact of the fact that we already had a safety deposit box in a bank in Finland.
< 1521485590 794943 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: no but I usually take my computer on trips, but don't take the dvd's. I have off-site backups onto AWS
< 1521485605 58162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does mean the off-site copy is only updated about once a year.)
< 1521485837 540171 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually now I think about it I could put some dvd's in the garage, which probably wouldn't burn even if the whole house did
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< 1521485864 374657 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, and you could say that my off-site backups are an artifact of having moved away from my parents' house but still storing some stuff there
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< 1521487762 671548 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia TOPIC #esoteric :Welcome to the international millennium for esoteric programming language discussion, design, development and deployment! | http://esolangs.org | logs: http://esolangs.org/logs/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf
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< 1521489384 60309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is rsync suitable to make a backup on the DVD?
> 1521489439 666624 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Hatemath14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54409&oldid=54387 5* 03BMO 5* (+410) 10implemented the language & changed commands-listing to a wiki-table.
< 1521489446 747562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since I already have rsync in my computer)
< 1521489702 722042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what issues will there be with recording on DVD while the system is running? The man page for wodim says, for the information about the -dummy option, "It is recommended to run several tests before actually writing to a Compact Disk or Digital Versatile Disk, if the timing and load response of the system is not known."
< 1521489850 288343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, which DVDs are better, -R or +R? I have -R (and as far as I know the optical drive on my computer can record on DVD-R), but I don't know what is better
< 1521490096 692856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, if there are any of my public files that you want copies of (including clones of Fossil repositories), you may make those copies if you wish.
< 1521491211 230934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: at least you can replace USB cables without replacing the whole charger hth
< 1521491347 260411 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's much less of a problem these days than it used to be when computers were small and your whole computer had 128 MB of RAM and so CD burners couldn't afford to have hundreds of megabytes of buffer RAM right on the board. these days you don't have to worry about burning DVD while the system is running.
< 1521491402 718315 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's still some anecdotal evidence that it might be worth to burn disks at slower speed than the drive and disk are capable of, not because the burning fails, but because the disk might last longer, but it's hard to tell whether this actually matters
< 1521491452 785733 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for -R versus +R disks, these days it doesn't matter at all. that started as some sort of two standards by two competing companies, but these days every drive and every software is compatible with every variant.
< 1521491488 354760 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and no, I don't think rsync is suitable for writing directly on the DVD
< 1521491596 831102 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For writing DVD or CD, I recommend first collecting a copy of what you want to backup to hard disk, which is the phase where it matters that other processes don't modify the source, then later you can write from that copy to DVD at leisure, for which I recommend http://libburnia-project.org/ if you're doing the burning on a linux system
< 1521491656 739740 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a set of command-line tools for writing (and reading) CD and DVD of all kinds
< 1521491761 119305 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I create backup tarballs on hard disk while the system is running, then write the tarballs onto DVDs
< 1521491973 289693 :ivzem!4db44db6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.180.77.182 QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1521492045 435294 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't the only software that can burn DVDs, and you can use others, it's just what I recommend.
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> 1521493326 567036 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54410&oldid=54403 5* 03ZM 5* (+26) 10This is going to be controversial
> 1521493539 809050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54411&oldid=54410 5* 03ZM 5* (+83) 10
> 1521493566 98020 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54412&oldid=54411 5* 03ZM 5* (+29) 10
> 1521493591 342836 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54413&oldid=54412 5* 03ZM 5* (-10) 10
> 1521494317 992924 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54414&oldid=54413 5* 03ZM 5* (+373) 10Background info
> 1521494553 302326 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54415&oldid=54414 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+113) 10
> 1521494831 103104 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54416&oldid=54415 5* 03Hanss314 5* (+71) 10
> 1521494867 967237 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07TLOWScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54417&oldid=54416 5* 03Hanss314 5* (-2) 10
< 1521494880 784657 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be possible to design a language to be turing complete when it's only data type is a set
< 1521494893 261241 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without self modification. self modification makes anything turing if you try hard enough lol)
< 1521495373 604631 :alercah!~alercah@unaffiliated/alercah PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1521495374 246598 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: sure, why not
< 1521495374 709359 :\oren\_!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: you can represent any integer as a set
< 1521495410 375435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi \oren\_
< 1521495411 473612 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi \oren\_. Horen\_.
< 1521495441 773861 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking into how such a language could be minimized, and what would the minimum instruction set for a set only language be
< 1521495545 295634 :wob_jonas!b03f189f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :moony: can you have labels and goto? if so, then probably just have a two-counter Minsky machine, and call the numbers "sets", where instead of increasing, you form a singleton set, and instead of decreasing, you take an arbitrary element of the set but test if it's empty
> 1521495755 331050 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Bottersnike 5*  10New user account
> 1521495997 317572 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54418&oldid=54395 5* 03Bottersnike 5* (+299) 10
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< 1521500897 285504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how come you didn't replace 5? with something else tdnh
< 1521500946 888253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`5 [[ $((RANDOM % 2)) = 0 ]] && w || q
< 1521500954 630328 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2:39)  If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ...   I'd call it jabbear. \ 587)  I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish   I don't fit in your quaint little categories \ 89)  Hooray!   I'm an idiot. \ 1268)  editor flame wars are fun, I typically take the side of emacs and vim ve
< 1521500958 375092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`n
< 1521500959 187484 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/2:rsus everything else   normally I can get most of the emacs /and/ vim users round to my side, thus catching out all the other-editor-users who thought they were safe \ article//An article is something that `learn can understand.
< 1521500984 334736 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still need to learn emacs
< 1521500995 807270 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks useful, and its certainly faster than atom
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< 1521502035 110743 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloony
< 1521502291 332880 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuhINThOlPhIholA