←2018-04-12 2018-04-13 2018-04-14→ ↑2018 ↑all
00:01:48 <quintopia> oh boily you might like this: https://www.quora.com/Can-Americans-understand-centimeters-meters-and-kilometers/answer/Tom-Robinson-110?share=f0735efc&srid=i3Gd
00:06:58 <fizzie> That reminds me, I need to move HackEso from being started in a regular shell session I have open in a terminal. Let's try to do that right now.
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00:08:02 <boily> quintopia: :D
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01:52:45 <esowiki> [[Takeover]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54795&oldid=54774 * Ais523 * (+1763) The point was the general technique, not the individual program; however, that's a pretty clever way to implement cat in particular. Perhaps we could do with reorganising this section to split the general technique from cat in particular.
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02:06:08 <esowiki> [[Talk:Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54796&oldid=54781 * Oerjan * (+434) /* How to create a page? */ At least two ways
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02:39:27 <oerjan> shachaf: you need to work faster on your botloops twh
02:39:54 <shachaf> oerjan: I don't think a HackEso/fungot botloop is possible.
02:39:55 <fungot> shachaf: emacs of course. anyway, the buffer is there to pick /any/ name other than brevity?
02:40:01 <shachaf> Well, was.
02:40:08 <oerjan> @messages-gold
02:40:08 <lambdabot> fizzie said 16h 42m 36s ago: There's a non-zero probability `edit is usable again.
02:40:16 <oerjan> i suppose.
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03:10:04 <oerjan> `dontaskdonttelllist
03:10:04 <HackEso> dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ i​n​t​-​e​
03:11:03 <shachaf> ask not, that ye be not asked
03:11:07 <oerjan> @tell impomatic Added a citation needed to Wikipedia:Artificial life. reason=There seems to be no original source for this quote, and in fact if you restrict a web search to pages that don't contain the phrase artificial life, there are only a handful left
03:11:07 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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05:10:38 <zzo38> I think maybe SQLite should support a GROUP BY clause in a CREATE TABLE or CREATE INDEX statement so that if your program is working with only a subset of the data and switches between different groups infrequently that the query optimizer will automatically know that, and deal with it properly, and perhaps force to use separate database pages for different groups. But, I am unsure.
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06:40:31 <zzo38> I wrote partially the document for the format of the .heromeshrc file which contains the settings for Free Hero Mesh. Why do many programs use such a file name for the setting file with "rc" at the end? What does "rc" stand for?
06:58:38 <shachaf> "run commands", according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_commands
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07:23:53 <singingbanana> Hello! Im back from a holiday in Bulgaria. In Bulgaria, I met an amazing guy, John Found. He wrote an assembler-like CMS in assembly, he wrote an assembly-language IDE in assembly, and wrote a BBS in assembly. Also, his whole website is written in assembly!
07:26:56 <singingbanana> His favourite assembly language is FASM, in which he implemented his CMS and the IDE. I have to say, writing a website in assembly is so... Esoteric? If you dont believe me: asm32.net is his website. It looks pretty good for a website written in assembly.
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07:29:06 <shachaf> That makes sense, but what language does he write in?
07:29:21 <singingbanana> Assembly
07:30:10 <singingbanana> His job is written web apps in assembly for a large production company that makes freezers
07:30:29 <singingbanana> /written/writing/
07:32:16 <singingbanana> His CMS is a assmebly language, Minimagasm, made by himself. NB. John Found is just his pseudonym.
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07:33:34 <oerjan> s/makes/assembles/
07:34:11 <singingbanana> oearjan: True
07:34:38 <singingbanana> /oearjan/oerjan/ I cant write!
07:35:15 <singingbanana> My cat is on the keyboard, except some gibberish...
07:35:19 <singingbanana> vgvgvhjhfrdertgh
07:35:34 <oerjan> `? cat
07:35:35 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
07:35:56 <singingbanana> Why?
07:36:24 <oerjan> i think that was considered to obvious to explain
07:37:22 <oerjan> `dowt cat
07:37:24 <HackEso> 3573:2013-08-29 <Rouj̈o> echo Cats are cool, but should be illegal. > wisdom/cat
07:37:29 <singingbanana> In Bulgaria, i found a Lindt shop and bought a Kilo of Lindor's.
07:37:41 <oerjan> @wn lindor
07:37:42 <lambdabot> No match for "lindor".
07:37:58 <singingbanana> what is " @wn"?
07:38:04 <oerjan> @help wn
07:38:04 <lambdabot> wn .......... WordNet (r) 1.7
07:38:17 <singingbanana> @wn banana
07:38:18 <lambdabot> *** "banana" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:38:18 <lambdabot> banana
07:38:18 <lambdabot> n 1: any of several tropical and subtropical treelike herbs of
07:38:18 <lambdabot> the genus Musa having a terminal crown of large entire
07:38:18 <lambdabot> leaves and usually bearing hanging clusters of elongated
07:38:20 <lambdabot> fruits [syn: {banana}, {banana tree}]
07:38:22 <lambdabot> 2: elongated crescent-shaped yellow fruit with soft sweet flesh
07:38:31 <singingbanana> @wn cat
07:38:32 <lambdabot> *** "cat" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:38:32 <lambdabot> cat
07:38:32 <lambdabot> n 1: feline mammal usually having thick soft fur and no ability
07:38:32 <lambdabot> to roar: domestic cats; wildcats [syn: {cat}, {true cat}]
07:38:32 <lambdabot> 2: an informal term for a youth or man; "a nice guy"; "the guy's
07:38:34 <lambdabot> [28 @more lines]
07:38:46 <singingbanana> @more @wn cat
07:38:46 <lambdabot> only doing it for some doll" [syn: {guy}, {cat}, {hombre},
07:38:46 <lambdabot> {bozo}]
07:38:46 <lambdabot> 3: a spiteful woman gossip; "what a cat she is!"
07:38:46 <lambdabot> 4: the leaves of the shrub Catha edulis which are chewed like
07:38:46 <lambdabot> tobacco or used to make tea; has the effect of a euphoric
07:38:48 <lambdabot> [23 @more lines]
07:39:02 <singingbanana> @more @wn cat
07:39:02 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list
07:39:11 <singingbanana> OK.
07:39:27 <singingbanana> @wn Lindt
07:39:28 <lambdabot> No match for "Lindt".
07:39:33 <singingbanana> Oh...
07:40:19 <singingbanana> I love definition 1: .."No ability to roar"...
07:41:11 <singingbanana> Enough of "@wn"
07:41:40 <singingbanana> `dwt Lindt
07:41:41 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dwt: not found
07:42:01 <singingbanana> 'dowt Lindt
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07:44:28 <singingbanana> What is amazing, John Found managed to make emoji in assembly!
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07:45:08 <singingbanana> @wn Emoji
07:45:09 <lambdabot> No match for "Emoji".
07:45:24 <singingbanana> @ls
07:45:24 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl msg list let id do bf ask @ ? .
07:45:41 <singingbanana> @bf +-.
07:45:41 <lambdabot> Done.
07:45:48 <shachaf> Does his assembly web server support status code 404?
07:46:01 <shachaf> I assume it supports 302.
07:46:02 <singingbanana> Let me look...
07:47:27 <singingbanana> /asm32.net/asm32.info asm32.net is chinese...
07:47:43 <shachaf> oerjan: Recetly I punned without noticing it, but it wasn't on IRC. Does that count?
07:48:01 <singingbanana> yes, it supports 404!
07:48:33 <singingbanana> asm32.info/jh also, it is secure!
07:49:38 <singingbanana> Did you know, bananas are radioactive?
07:50:23 <singingbanana> I know, it sounds wierd...
07:50:41 <singingbanana> s/wierd/weird
07:52:27 <singingbanana> Also, I cant figure out how to use Alfie-2 OR Alfie-3(they are the first Presumption-based languages IN THE WORLD!!)
07:54:15 <singingbanana> @bf >+<+.
07:54:15 <lambdabot> Done.
07:54:19 <singingbanana> ?
07:54:29 <singingbanana> @bf >+<+
07:54:29 <lambdabot> Done.
07:56:02 <singingbanana> @bf [>+<+].
07:56:02 <lambdabot> Done.
07:57:01 <singingbanana> @bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++.
07:57:01 <lambdabot> Hello World!
07:57:18 <singingbanana> @bf >++++++++[-<+++++++++>]<.>>+>-[+]++>++>+++[>[->+++<<+++>]<<]>-----.>->
07:57:18 <lambdabot> He
07:57:20 <singingbanana> +++..+++.>-.<<+[>[+>+]>>]<--------------.>>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+.
07:57:45 <singingbanana> @bf >+++++++++++++++++++++.
07:57:45 <lambdabot> Done.
07:58:09 <singingbanana> >++++++++++++++++++++++++>,.
07:58:12 <singingbanana> hi
07:58:30 <singingbanana> @bf +++++++++++++++++++++++>,.
07:58:30 <lambdabot> Done.
08:06:27 <singingbanana> I just got a issue of the Russian maths&physics journal Quantik. In it, the Parando paradox was explained. My question: is it possible with programming languages?
08:07:29 <singingbanana> s/Parando/parrando/Parrando
08:10:44 <singingbanana> Like, have esolang 1, which has same syntax as esolang 2, and count your 'profit'?
08:16:08 <singingbanana> But how? A profit-based language? The output is profit from running esolang 1 v. esolang 2. And you like, well.... I dont know... OK, a better model is a language operating on currency exchanges... I dont know... Errr...I have to think about it....
08:20:00 <singingbanana> Ive got it! I'll write an essay on it! Usage of currency exchange model to portray a computing environment found in nature itself.
08:21:41 <singingbanana> I can compile it into a graph! Show how to make profit!
08:22:18 <singingbanana> That'll be a great essay for CS class!
08:23:00 <singingbanana> Or Business class...
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08:35:06 <singingbanana> Look at equation 2a = 1b, 1b = 2c, 2c=3a. Obviously, 2a = 2c. 2c = 3a. In a equation in maths, thats wrong. Thats impossible. But hey! Profit! Go from a to b to c in a car, and slowly, profit will appear! Let imagine A-lands currency is a Baton, B-lands is a Asded, & C-lands is the Quirky. 2 Batons is 1 Asded, 1 Asded is 2 Quirky. 2 Quirky is 3 Baton. You have 1 Baton per voyage profit(1 Quirky profit)!
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08:44:09 <singingbanana> According to Google, £1 is $1.43. $1.43 is Japanese Yen 153.84. 153.84 Yen is £1. Exactly. But, of course! They regulate their markets! 153.84 Yen in Botswanan Pula is 13.74. Pula to pound = 1 pound. But that is idealized! On a actual markey, youll get either some profit or some loss.
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09:32:24 <singingbanana> (More likely some loss)
09:32:43 <singingbanana> The next step is developing a cellular system!
09:33:12 <singingbanana> Step1 -> Step2(diff 2)
09:34:33 <singingbanana> That means Step1 goes to step2, but if you had, for example 43 cells in State1, you will have 41 is step2, as 43-2 is 41(diff 2)
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09:40:50 <singingbanana> As you can see the currency exchange model is VERY useful.
09:50:16 <singingbanana> State1 -> State2(addiff 3, splitrate diff 2) State 1 transfers to state 2, but 2 extra cells appear, and the split rate, the amount of descendents of that generation per round, decreases by 2. This example introduces concepts in nature. I think a new ALPACA can be created using this. It shall be called ALADECESY: A LAnguage DEfining CEllular SYstems. It will be prouncced like: ALADA-SEE-WHY.( If I will ever finish
09:50:18 <singingbanana> g it). If you really want to, pronounce it "I'd like to see why".
09:54:27 <singingbanana> Only problem with ALADECESY is: how do you define a neighbourhood.
09:54:37 <singingbanana> Like a array?
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10:11:38 <singingbanana> ^ul (1 asded)
10:11:55 <singingbanana> ^ul (1 Asded)S
10:11:55 <fungot> 1 Asded
10:19:39 <singingbanana> I have a idea! Lets take a cat program: Input=Output. Lets place restrictions: The only string which cant be in cat is cat. Input=Output, unless Input == cat|CAT|Cat|CaT|CAt|caT. Next, we say
10:20:09 <singingbanana> that is if have print in output, I output the integer input+1.
10:20:29 <singingbanana> (I know that is not the print command...)
10:20:59 <singingbanana> The point is, any interpreter/compiler is just a cat program with extensions. QED.
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10:39:18 <singingbanana> Can someone explain what a wang tile is?
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10:45:51 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: re Wang tiles, look up "Wang, Hao" in Knuth TAOCP volume 1
10:47:05 <singingbanana> wob_jonas:Unfortuantely, I dont have Donald Knuths The Art Of Computer Programming. I wont it..
10:47:41 <singingbanana> My Grandad has one, but he lives a continent away.
10:48:09 <singingbanana> I looked on Wikipedia, and I dont really get it.
10:50:24 <wob_jonas> you should buy TAOCP, it's great. or use a library copy until that.
10:51:28 <singingbanana> I know, TAOCP is great. Our library, the Exeter Library doesnt have a copy.
10:52:26 <singingbanana> I read TAOCP 2, about sorting algorithms. It was amazing!
10:52:44 <Taneb> TAOCP is one of the books I keep at my desk at work
10:52:57 <wob_jonas> that sucks. I know there are a lot of places in country with no libraries, even places that count as a town (as opposed to a village), and a lot of disadvantaged children grow up in such places. it sucks.
10:52:59 <Taneb> Although my shelf is now too full...
10:53:15 <wob_jonas> Taneb: now I'm interested. what other books?
10:53:25 <Taneb> wob_jonas: a whole bunch
10:54:01 <Taneb> Introduction to Languages and the Theory of Computation, Parallel and COncurrent Programming in Haskell, Homotopy Type Theory, Programming in Haskell, Purely Functional Data Structures, and An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers
10:54:18 <wob_jonas> oh, I only know one of those
10:54:21 <Taneb> And to that I want to add Quantum Computing and Quantum Information
10:54:35 <fizzie> There's a very ad-hoc library here at work, in the sense that there's a room with a bunch of desks to sit at and one wall of bookshelves, but I've no idea where the books come from, or if there's a list of them anywhere.
10:54:54 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Millions of pounds where spend on the Library, and the only book about programming in the library is Java on Android.
10:55:34 <singingbanana> Taneb: Wow! Those sound like good books!
10:55:41 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: yes, and the problem is that libraries are so expensive to maintain that they responsibly spend all their budget to guard the existing old books than to buy new ones
10:56:06 <wob_jonas> let me look some of these up
10:56:12 <Taneb> singingbanana: is this a university library? Can you travel to a different university and use theirs?
10:56:32 <singingbanana> Taneb: Town library. I'm not in Uni yet.
10:56:48 <Taneb> Ah, fair enough
10:56:54 <Taneb> See if they have it available to interlend?
10:56:58 <singingbanana> In our Uni library there is only Art of Python.
10:57:47 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: sadly your case is typical. you can try to get some inter-library loans in your town library, but it still sucks. but you can be looking forward that it will almost certainly improve if you go to college
10:57:50 <singingbanana> Exeter Uni only focuses only on Islamic studies and LINGUISTICS.
10:58:05 <wob_jonas> Taneb: "interlend"? that's a word? nice
10:58:22 <singingbanana> Our school library is worse1
10:58:57 <singingbanana> I cant wait till Grammar school. They have 2 shelves of CS books...
10:59:35 <wob_jonas> "Introduction to languages and the theory of computation" => apparently this is a book by John C. Martin. Should I be checking it out if I can?
11:00:01 <Taneb> wob_jonas: it's good if you want the theory behind FSA and turing machines and context-free grammars and whatnot
11:00:03 <singingbanana> For people outside the UK: A grammar school is a goverment-sponsored selective high school.
11:00:17 <singingbanana> Taneb: I want it.
11:00:47 <wob_jonas> Taneb: I've read the Hopcroft-Ullman book with a similar title for that
11:00:57 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I've got a few books at my parents' house I want to get here, too, but that's at the other end of the country
11:01:00 <wob_jonas> that's where I read the proof for the two-counter machine
11:01:04 <wob_jonas> still, it might be worth to check out
11:01:11 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Its written by André Maurois
11:01:21 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I don't know those authors... this was the one my computability course at uni recommended
11:01:51 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: what's written by André Maurois?
11:02:22 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: "Introduction to languages and theory of computation"
11:02:30 <wob_jonas> Taneb: does 3rd edition from 2003 versus older edition from 1991 matter?
11:02:58 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: that must be a different book then. Taneb: are you talking about the book by John C. Martin, or by André Maurois, or a third one?
11:03:15 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I wouldn't know, I'm afraid
11:03:20 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I've got the 4th edition
11:03:30 <Taneb> (yes, the John C. Martin one)
11:03:40 <singingbanana> OK.
11:05:14 <singingbanana> An Introduction to Formal Language Theory By Robert N. Moll, Michael A. Arbib, A.J. Kfoury IS AMAZING. I only read it on Google Books though :(
11:05:33 <Taneb> I'm currently working through Quantum Computation and Quantum Information
11:05:50 <Taneb> I regret not studying it harder when I was at uni
11:06:23 <singingbanana> Taneb: I imagine its hard. Im going to read Linux Format in May. They will explain Quantum computing.
11:06:30 <Taneb> Because I really started enjoying it near the end
11:07:54 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Are you different from b_jonas
11:09:21 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: no
11:09:38 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: OK. Just wondering.
11:11:04 <wob_jonas> ok, so which "An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers"? apparently that's a popular title too, several authors have used it
11:11:44 <wob_jonas> well, at least three authors
11:12:04 <singingbanana> MY LINUX IS DIYING
11:12:18 <Taneb> wob_jonas: Hardy and Wright, 6th edition
11:12:33 <singingbanana> Phew. Its behaving again.
11:12:47 <singingbanana> Taneb: Are you at work?
11:12:50 <Taneb> singingbanana: yes
11:13:07 <singingbanana> Taneb; Who do you work as/
11:13:29 <Taneb> I work as me, a software developer for a small company in Cambridge
11:13:56 <singingbanana> Oh. What do you develop?
11:14:18 <Taneb> As a company, we get neural networks running on FPGAs
11:14:41 <wob_jonas> oh! I think you mentioned that. that sounds scary.
11:14:51 <singingbanana> My dad taught me that! Do you use look-up tables to like...
11:14:51 <Taneb> Using a custom compiler from a high-level description
11:15:08 <Taneb> This is why I don't have any books on FPGAs, neural networks, or compiling ;P
11:15:49 <wob_jonas> that's normal
11:16:29 <singingbanana> Taneb:Because when I do that, I write it using a State-machine thing into a look-up table on m Xilinx Spartan.
11:16:39 <singingbanana> s/m/my
11:18:33 <singingbanana> But you better dont share company secrets...
11:18:53 <Taneb> That's certainly one way, but not the only way, to do it
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11:20:14 <singingbanana> Perl motto: There is more than one way to do it!
11:22:16 <Taneb> singingbanana: we use http://www.clash-lang.org/ which you might be interested in
11:22:28 <Taneb> It's a Haskell dialect that compiles to VHDL or Verilog
11:22:50 <singingbanana> Taneb: Thank you! That's why you have Haskell books...
11:23:22 <Taneb> I have Haskell books because I like Haskell :P
11:23:31 <Taneb> Programming in Haskell is even signed by the author
11:23:39 <singingbanana> Taneb: Quite unlike me...
11:25:11 <singingbanana> Im learning Haskell cause I have to. I got into esolangs after designing a new language for testing algorithms: Exeter. Its Function-based, not esoteric, but I got a link to here.
11:25:41 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: are you in the UK?
11:26:06 <singingbanana> Exeter is not implemented. And it isnt meant to be. wob-jonas: Yes, Exeter is the Capital of Devon
11:26:28 <Taneb> Esolangs are what got me into programmign
11:26:28 <singingbanana> s/wob-jonas/wob_jonas/
11:26:57 <singingbanana> Taneb: How long have you been making esolangs?
11:27:29 <singingbanana> Exeter is meant to ease translating pseudo-code to real programming languages.
11:30:35 <singingbanana> Ive been making them since I was 7. My dad asked me "What is programming?"(He just wanted to test me). I said "Its when you mobve a turtle on a screen". My dad shoked me by saying someone made Windows OS. Then, by accident I reivented Brainf*ck.
11:30:59 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Do YOU live in the UK
11:31:14 <wob_jonas> no. I live in Budapest, Hungary.
11:31:49 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Ohhh! I was there on holiday last year. Who do you work as/
11:32:26 <wob_jonas> `aglist 585
11:32:27 <HackEso> aglist 585: b_jonas shachaf
11:32:44 <singingbanana> What was that/
11:32:48 <wob_jonas> I'm currently looking for work. My previous work was as a research-developer in a CS company, mostly doing image processing stuff
11:32:51 <wob_jonas> `? aglist
11:32:52 <HackEso> aglist is update notification for the Abstruse Goose webcomic. http://abstrusegoose.com/
11:34:27 <wob_jonas> we were developing stupid approximation solutions for impossible specialized image recognition problems that is
11:34:40 <Taneb> singingbanana: 2009 or so
11:35:08 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: Oh. My dad worked in a companylike that. Only they made stupid genetic technology.
11:35:40 <singingbanana> They didnt pay him for 2 months! Then the company went bust,
11:36:50 <singingbanana> You know the Skripal case? Yesterday, I drove through Salisbury and police is evrywhere.
11:39:17 <singingbanana> So sad... Im sort of Russian, and my teacher was making jokes about the stuff in school.
11:39:50 <wob_jonas> we have a bunch of these notification lists. most of them are inactive, but olist and pbflist and ysaclist get occasional hits. you can subscribe to almost any of them by appending your name
11:40:02 <singingbanana> What are your favourite esolangs that you made?
11:40:26 <singingbanana> s/are/is/
11:40:54 <Taneb> My favourites of mine are Fueue, COMPLEX, and Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
11:41:20 <wob_jonas> I don't usually make esolangs, but a certain vaporvare provisionally called "Consumer society" that I'm going to eventually make is currently my fav.
11:42:37 <singingbanana> mine are: Borsch and alfie
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11:45:48 <singingbanana> In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome decree
11:47:30 <singingbanana> Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
11:47:32 <singingbanana> Through caverns measureless to man
11:47:34 <singingbanana> Down to a sunless sea
11:48:31 <singingbanana> So twice five miles of fertile land with walls and towers girdled round
11:48:34 <singingbanana> ...
11:48:44 <singingbanana> My favorite poem.
11:49:46 <singingbanana> Kubla Khan is my favourite poem because it is feautured in Douglas Adams!
11:51:58 <singingbanana> From line 1-5 its nice. After, er...
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11:55:11 <singingbanana> Im back1
11:56:36 <singingbanana> Taneb: I like your Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download language. It might be my alltime favourite
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11:58:20 <wob_jonas> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is sort of a meme in esoteric because it has such a good name and the name was inspired by a spambot
11:58:32 <singingbanana> was it?
11:58:47 <wob_jonas> yes
11:59:27 <wob_jonas> I don't know where that's documented other than the channel logs
12:00:15 <wob_jonas> basically there's a movie called "Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster", and a spambot posted a page on the esolang wiki with this title where presumably it advertised some malware trying to make people think they can download the new movie really fast
12:00:15 <singingbanana> I image: All go to #dumbstuff to get a free vist to Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE
12:00:41 <wob_jonas> and then someone saw the page and thought the title was too good to delete, and made an esolang out of it
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12:01:44 <singingbanana> I knew that the name was not just a random STRING!
12:01:46 <wob_jonas> or so I heard
12:01:59 <wob_jonas> maybe someone just invented this story together with the name
12:02:19 <wob_jonas> it's hard to believe because most malware says "Full Movie" or "HD" instead of "Real Fast", but still
12:02:33 <wob_jonas> maybe the spam was different back in those days
12:02:41 <singingbanana> MAYBE
12:02:45 <singingbanana> maybe
12:03:11 <singingbanana> . o O . o 0 ..ooO0
12:05:04 <singingbanana> Spam is still wierd these days: "Instool Adobee Flashlight Player at bkukzhf;zakjfbiu.adobe.'
12:05:24 <singingbanana> wrong spelling intended.
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12:07:35 <singingbanana> It is still a good story!
12:08:16 <singingbanana> Why is spam targeting esolangs.org a lot?#
12:08:42 <wob_jonas> spam is targeting everything, especially websites that use stock software
12:09:20 <wob_jonas> in this case it uses mediawiki, so the spammers can reuse their mediawiki spam scripts on most mediawiki sites out there that used to have free registration
12:09:31 <singingbanana> True. (I always reply in boolean)
12:09:56 <wob_jonas> although there are some rumors that some of the spam on esolang is a bit smarter than that, and specific to esolangs
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12:29:30 <wob_jonas> `quote
12:29:31 <HackEso> 13) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
12:29:32 <wob_jonas> `quote
12:29:33 <HackEso> 387) <augur> ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently <Phantom_Hoover> So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex?
12:44:43 <wob_jonas> `quote
12:44:44 <HackEso> 1008) <fizzie> ... <fizzie> I was thinking maybe octave's fact() function is the factorial. <fizzie> octave:1> fact(20) <fizzie> Richad Stallman's pinky finger is really a USB memory stick. <fizzie> I don't think that's 20!.
12:44:45 <wob_jonas> `recipe
12:44:45 <HackEso> ggs, and sift \ mixture. Set aside. Bake at 350, blend the apples and sugar and then add the \ celery; beat wells in a mixing bowl. Meanwhile, in a large skillet, knead \ in middle of the dressing. Refrigerate with the cookie cutter and liquid. Fold \ into two lid on the batter. The mustard and with a little potatoes and \ freeze the cooked th
12:45:20 <wob_jonas> nah, that's too complicated
12:48:49 <wob_jonas> `random-card
12:48:49 <HackEso> Serpent Assassin \ 3BB \ Creature -- Snake Assassin \ 2/2 \ When Serpent Assassin enters the battlefield, you may destroy target nonblack creature. \ P1-R
12:48:52 <wob_jonas> `starwars 5
12:48:52 <HackEso> Chief Jawa \ Oola \ Cliegg Lars \ Watto \ Jango Fett
12:59:02 -!- singingbanana has joined.
12:59:19 <singingbanana> Really? I dont see spam on wikipedia, maybe because there is more articles.
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13:02:54 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: there's a lot of spam on wikipedia, but the editors remove them quickly
13:03:05 <wob_jonas> most of them. some stays there for years.
13:03:23 <singingbanana> Ahhh! Now I get it
13:03:47 <wob_jonas> get what?
13:04:05 <singingbanana> Why there is more spam on esolangs.org
13:04:21 <wob_jonas> there isn't
13:04:37 <wob_jonas> ais's new registration filter manages to filter out most of it now
13:06:16 <singingbanana> Good! What about HQ9++fan and other spammers. You can't just immediately find out that they are here for bad.
13:06:43 <singingbanana> HQ9++fan had a point, a manifesto.
13:07:10 <singingbanana> Unlike spambots, whos only manifesto is a program
13:07:23 -!- imode has joined.
13:11:49 <singingbanana> OK, im getting philosophical.
13:13:43 <singingbanana> I was reading a fascinating PhD thesis recently. About Cellular systems & Genetic programming
13:15:06 <wob_jonas> fungot, have you read a fascinating book lately?
13:15:07 <fungot> wob_jonas: i found a compositional way to integrate that with extensible event dispatch model which is designed be a lang that will compile and run time respectively, but the
13:15:25 <singingbanana> ???Pardon???
13:15:40 <singingbanana> fungot, Who is your leader
13:15:41 <fungot> singingbanana: but he's saying that lat can either be a lot easier. i wouldn't use those, but only one updated at any repetition of the loop ( i.e., to make people type out " function"
13:15:46 <wob_jonas> fungot: is it model-oriented?
13:15:46 <fungot> wob_jonas: except i was wrong when i re-read it seconds later.
13:16:32 <singingbanana> fungot, can you make a lisp interpreter with S-expression parsing?
13:16:33 <fungot> singingbanana: because i need the unicode, though. :) her dissertation appears to be swearing in perl.
13:16:40 <wob_jonas> fungot, how about signals?
13:16:40 <fungot> wob_jonas: 3 greasemonkey: daemon idle1 bf8. that'd provide the missing incentive. i wonder if there's anything interesting either
13:16:59 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: I have one of those. really stupid and minimal though.
13:17:21 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: What do you have?
13:17:35 <wob_jonas> a lisp interpreter with S-expression parsing
13:17:47 <singingbanana> Me also :0
13:17:49 <wob_jonas> quite old too
13:18:00 <singingbanana> emojised/:0/:)
13:18:22 <singingbanana> fungot: Do you know how to swear in lisp?
13:18:23 <fungot> singingbanana: i seem to recall that many schemes use a format whose first argument is that, if taken when building bridges and buildings, would allow you to protect the fnord. my os idea.
13:18:47 <singingbanana> fungot:Oh! How is your os called?
13:18:47 <fungot> singingbanana: that one's beautiful. lambda using the lambda, the continuation in ( 1 ( f ( g) ( else f)
13:19:17 <singingbanana> fungot: lambda x. lanbda y. x
13:19:17 <fungot> singingbanana: yes, you can say +clisp, for example
13:20:02 <Taneb> Which style is fungot using?
13:20:02 <fungot> Taneb: haskell programming is just a plain file
13:20:09 <Taneb> Ah, the Haskell programming style
13:20:10 <Taneb> ^style
13:20:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
13:20:25 <singingbanana> fungot: In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree
13:20:25 <fungot> singingbanana: i think so.
13:21:03 <singingbanana> agora
13:21:37 <singingbanana> fungot: Do you like Coleridge?
13:21:37 <fungot> singingbanana: you think i'm joking, son. now bend down."
13:22:07 <singingbanana> fungot: Do you wear markov chain mail?
13:22:07 <fungot> singingbanana: though i'm not 100 per cent correct. using read for client data is about as useful as would be a good idea, welcome newton
13:22:24 <singingbanana> Ok, thats random...
13:23:12 <singingbanana> s/newton/James Grime
13:23:54 <singingbanana> fungot; e=2.7.../
13:23:54 <fungot> singingbanana: i feel pretty dumb without a repl) is between 1.5 and 2 times, respectively.
13:24:11 <wob_jonas> [/ %:2
13:24:15 <wob_jonas> [. %:2
13:24:24 <wob_jonas> [ %:2
13:24:30 <singingbanana> FUNGOT doesnt close his brackets!
13:24:47 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: What is that?
13:25:30 <wob_jonas> `perl -eprint 10**0.5
13:25:30 <HackEso> 3.16227766016838
13:25:58 <singingbanana> `perl -eprint pi^e
13:25:58 <HackEso> ​i
13:26:20 <singingbanana> `perl -eprint pi ** e
13:26:21 <HackEso> Bareword found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "** e" \ (Missing operator before e?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "** e \ " \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
13:26:40 <singingbanana> `perl 3.14*8
13:26:41 <HackEso> Can't open perl script "3.14*8": No such file or directory
13:26:54 <singingbanana> fungot:Do you like perl?
13:27:04 <singingbanana> fungot!
13:27:08 <singingbanana> fungot
13:27:35 <singingbanana> fungot hi
13:29:59 <singingbanana> `perl -a ++$a[$a[$a[$_]]]for@F;redo
13:30:13 <singingbanana> `perl --help
13:30:13 <HackEso> ​ \ Usage: perl [switches] [--] [programfile] [arguments] \ -0[octal] specify record separator (\0, if no argument) \ -a autosplit mode with -n or -p (splits $_ into @F) \ -C[number/list] enables the listed Unicode features \ -c check syntax only (runs BEGIN and CHECK blocks) \ -d[:debugger] r
13:30:29 <HackEso> No output.
13:31:35 <singingbanana> fungot
13:33:25 <singingbanana> False is True. is True False?
13:34:07 <wob_jonas> `? freedome
13:34:08 <HackEso> freedome? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:34:08 <wob_jonas> `? freedom
13:34:09 <HackEso> freedom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:34:13 <wob_jonas> `? war
13:34:14 <HackEso> A lot more young people have gone off to fight in this war than I would have, at that age.
13:34:32 <singingbanana> `? battle
13:34:33 <HackEso> battle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:34:41 <singingbanana> `? cat
13:34:42 <HackEso> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
13:34:42 <wob_jonas> `? freedom
13:34:43 <HackEso> freedom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:34:48 <wob_jonas> `? ignorance
13:34:49 <HackEso> ignorance? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:35:05 <singingbanana> `? dog
13:35:06 <HackEso> dog? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:37:34 <singingbanana> `? esolang
13:37:35 <HackEso> esolang? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:38:02 <singingbanana> `? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:38:03 <HackEso> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:38:19 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsi "\<eso" wisdom
13:38:20 <HackEso> wisdom/olsner:olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric. \ wisdom/#programming:No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ wisdom/porthello:Hellonfused one. Porthellos are the standard greeting format in #esoteric. Best enjoyed with some thé or caffè and a fternooner. \ wisdom/`!:`! is a comma
13:38:33 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom
13:38:34 <HackEso> wisdom/olsner \ wisdom/#programming \ wisdom/porthello \ wisdom/`! \ wisdom/the usual suspect \ wisdom/newbie of the month \ wisdom/#esoteric-blah \ wisdom/esoterra \ wisdom/cpressey \ wisdom/extreme ironing \ wisdom/usual suspect \ wisdom/esoteric \ wisdom/ꙮ \ wisdom/welcome.sv \ wisdom/welcome.is \ wisdom/welcome.nb \ wisdom/pronounceable c \ w
13:38:39 <singingbanana> `? ¯\(°_o)/¯
13:38:41 <HackEso> ​ ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:38:45 <wob_jonas> `? esoterra
13:38:46 <HackEso> Esoterra is the planet of Esoterrans, also known as Esolangers. The proof of its existence is non-constructive, although some suspect that it is in fact Earth.
13:38:50 <wob_jonas> `? esoteric
13:38:51 <HackEso> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
13:38:54 <wob_jonas> `? #esoteric-blah
13:38:55 <HackEso> ​#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
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13:39:01 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +10
13:39:02 <HackEso> wisdom/extreme ironing \ wisdom/usual suspect \ wisdom/esoteric \ wisdom/ꙮ \ wisdom/welcome.sv \ wisdom/welcome.is \ wisdom/welcome.nb \ wisdom/pronounceable c \ wisdom/welcome.de \ wisdom/oren \ wisdom/font \ wisdom/ops \ wisdom/esoteric files archive \ wisdom/welcome.fr \ wisdom/stephen wolfram \ wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/wiki
13:39:10 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +25
13:39:10 <HackEso> wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/wiki \ wisdom/wegian \ wisdom/welcome.fi \ wisdom/canaima \ wisdom/fizzie \ wisdom/swatter \ wisdom/advertisement \ wisdom/welcome.es \ wisdom/bfjoust \ wisdom/welcome.eo \ wisdom/welcome.nl \ wisdom/welcome.ja \ wisdom/mesolang \ wisdom/furryscript \ wisdom/glados \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/
13:39:18 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +40
13:39:19 <HackEso> wisdom/furryscript \ wisdom/glados \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/vanila \ wisdom/`revert \ wisdom/blæg \ wisdom/solidity \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/esosc \ wisdom/locale \ wisdom/wolfram \ wisdom/entrymsg \ wisdom/welcome.tr \ wisdom/warrigal \ wisdom/member \ wisdom/the question
13:39:22 <wob_jonas> `? mesolang
13:39:23 <HackEso> A mesolang is a mediocre esolang. rdococ discovered them.
13:39:34 <wob_jonas> `? usual suspect
13:39:34 <HackEso> There are 3.99 usual suspects in #esoteric, but they're usually rounded up.
13:39:42 <wob_jonas> `? #programming
13:39:43 <HackEso> No such channel. See `? #esoteric
13:39:49 <wob_jonas> `? ꙮ
13:39:50 <HackEso> ​ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric.
13:40:01 <singingbanana> Is it?
13:40:05 <wob_jonas> `? swatter
13:40:06 <HackEso> The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
13:40:09 <wob_jonas> `? vanila
13:40:10 <HackEso> In a cruel twist of fate, vanila has come to #esoteric in search of wisdom.
13:40:15 <wob_jonas> ` advertisment
13:40:16 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
13:40:28 <wob_jonas> ``` grep -ERsil "\<eso" wisdom | tail -n +55
13:40:28 <HackEso> wisdom/the question
13:40:36 <wob_jonas> `? blæg
13:40:37 <HackEso> Blæg is a color that cannot exist under the current understanding of physics. It is used on the #esoteric flag, along with ultraviolet and whatever is convenient. It is a nullary color, meaning that it can be mixed with itself to produce the primary colors.
13:40:43 <wob_jonas> `? member
13:40:44 <HackEso> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
13:41:04 <wob_jonas> `? the question
13:41:05 <HackEso> The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
13:41:17 <singingbanana> `? wolfram
13:41:18 <HackEso> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him.
13:41:28 <wob_jonas> `? secret handshake
13:41:29 <HackEso> secret handshake? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:42:00 <singingbanana> True!!!!!!!! 100% (About Wolfram) Plus, he is aggressive!
13:42:28 <singingbanana> `? the question
13:42:29 <HackEso> The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
13:42:51 <singingbanana> `? entrymsg
13:42:52 <HackEso> ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>
13:44:15 <wob_jonas> `? welcome.eo
13:44:16 <HackEso> Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur EFnet aŭ DALnet.)
13:44:30 <singingbanana> func (add) (x, y):
13:44:37 <singingbanana> out(x+y)
13:44:49 <singingbanana> add(2,2)
13:45:24 <singingbanana> `? welcome.tr
13:45:25 <HackEso> Ezoterik programlama dili tasarım ve dağıtım için uluslararası merkezi hoş geldiniz! <http://esolangs.org/>: Daha fazla bilgi için, bizim wiki göz atın. (Esoterica diğer tür için, irc.dal.net üzerinde #esoteric deneyin.)
13:45:42 <singingbanana> `? glados
13:45:43 <HackEso> Hello, and again, welcome to the Aperture Science Computer Aided Internet Relay Chat & Enrichment Center. Please enjoy your stay at #esoteric, because you will never leave.
13:46:16 <singingbanana> wow........
13:49:35 <wob_jonas> most of the welcomes also have commands in bin, eg. `velkommen
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13:50:58 <singingbanana> `velkommen
13:50:59 <HackEso> Hei og velkommen til det internasjonale knutepunktet for esoterisk programmeringsspråkdesign og -utrulling! For mer informasjon, se wikien vår: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For den andre typen esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
13:51:19 <singingbanana> Is there a russian one?
13:51:41 -!- sprocklem has joined.
13:51:43 <wob_jonas> ``` cd wisdom && echo welcom*
13:51:43 <HackEso> welcome welcome.bork welcome.de welcome.eo welcome.es welcome.fi welcome.fr welcome.is welcome.ja welcome.nb welcome.nl welcome.sv welcome.tr
13:52:00 <wob_jonas> not yet. you can create one if you want.
13:52:00 <singingbanana> no.
13:52:05 <singingbanana> How/
13:52:12 <singingbanana> How?
13:52:24 <wob_jonas> first, create a wisdom with le/rn
13:52:26 <wob_jonas> `? le/rn
13:52:27 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
13:52:38 <singingbanana> Yes...
13:52:38 <wob_jonas> uh, that doesn't tell the syntax
13:52:59 <singingbanana> So
13:53:10 <wob_jonas> the syntax is `le/rn key/value
13:53:28 <singingbanana> What is the key?
13:53:46 <wob_jonas> so like `le/rn welcome.ru/something
13:54:06 <wob_jonas> since the other welcome wisdoms are named like "welcome." followed by a language code
13:54:23 <singingbanana> `? welcome
13:54:24 <wob_jonas> then look at bin/velkommen and create an executable based on that one I guess
13:54:24 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:54:47 <singingbanana> How do I look at bin/velkommen?
13:54:48 <wob_jonas> most of them are straight translations of the original welcome
13:54:53 <wob_jonas> ``` cat bin/velkommen
13:54:54 <HackEso> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.nb"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.nb"; }
13:55:03 <singingbanana> Oh wow...
13:55:09 <wob_jonas> wait, who made that?
13:55:16 <singingbanana> Yeahh
13:55:22 <wob_jonas> `doag bin/welkommen
13:55:23 <HackEso> No output.
13:55:33 <wob_jonas> `doag bin/velkommen
13:55:34 <wob_jonas> duh
13:55:35 <HackEso> 9741:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/velkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.nb/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x" \ 9740:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/velkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.no/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x"
13:55:42 <wob_jonas> hmm
13:55:44 <singingbanana> It appeared by itself
13:55:56 <wob_jonas> `doag bin/välkommen
13:55:57 <HackEso> 9739:2016-11-20 <wob_jonäs> `` x=bin/v\xc3\xa4lkommen; >$x sed s/\\.fr/\\.sv/g bin/bienvenue && chmod -v +x "$x"
13:56:04 <wob_jonas> there's got to be one I haven't made
13:56:09 <wob_jonas> `doag bin/bienvenue
13:56:10 <HackEso> 6019:2015-09-16 <oerjän> ` cp bin/{bienvenido,bienvenue}; sed -i \'s/\\.es/.fr/g\' bin/bienvenue
13:56:19 <wob_jonas> `doag bin/bienvenido
13:56:21 <HackEso> 3409:2013-08-09 <oerjän> sed \'s/welcome/welcome.es/g\' bin/welcome > bin/bienvenido; chmod +x bin/bienvenido \ 3408:2013-08-09 <oerjän> sed \'s/welcome/welcome.es/\' bin/welcome > bin/bienvenido; chmod +x bin/bienvenido
13:56:25 <wob_jonas> `cat bin/bienvenido
13:56:25 <HackEso> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.es"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.es"; }
13:56:27 <wob_jonas> `cat bin/bienvenue
13:56:28 <HackEso> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.fr"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.fr"; }
13:56:29 <Taneb> `? ngevd
13:56:30 <HackEso> ​nyfB#iQnHV(zP^Y*(e"s*gwԓvSŮTyh_ءA//Tʞ3|o"ID
13:56:36 <singingbanana> owhat??
13:56:40 <wob_jonas> see, those are by oerjan
13:56:59 <wob_jonas> and they're earlier than bin/velkommen
13:57:05 <wob_jonas> I knew it wasn't me
13:57:15 <singingbanana> I mean they look.... Like a bit hard?
13:58:19 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: then write the translation and create the wisdom and then bother other people hoping they'll create the executable
13:58:35 <singingbanana> `welcome
13:58:36 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:58:43 <wob_jonas> `welcome singingbanana
13:58:44 <HackEso> singingbanana: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
13:58:48 <singingbanana> Thanks!
13:58:51 <wob_jonas> `bienvenue singingbanana
13:58:52 <HackEso> singingbanana: Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.)
13:59:07 <wob_jonas> and then there are the rainbow and unicorn versions...
13:59:13 <singingbanana> oh...
13:59:17 <wob_jonas> `WeLcOmE
13:59:18 <HackEso> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: <hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/>. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On eFnEt oR DaLnEt.)
13:59:24 <wob_jonas> `WELCOME
13:59:32 <wob_jonas> `emoclew
13:59:33 <HackEso> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
13:59:46 <wob_jonas> those are the saner ones
14:00:58 <singingbanana> le/rn welcome.ru/Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoter
14:01:00 <singingbanana> Fnet или DALnet.)
14:01:13 <singingbanana> Now what?
14:01:44 <singingbanana> `? welcome.ru
14:01:45 <HackEso> welcome.ru? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:02:24 <wob_jonas> you forgot the backtick
14:02:33 <wob_jonas> so hackeso didn't listen
14:02:51 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru/Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esote
14:02:52 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): File name too long
14:02:53 <singingbanana> EFnet или DALnet.)
14:03:02 <singingbanana> Erm...
14:04:02 <singingbanana> Help!!
14:04:43 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru / Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #eso
14:04:44 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): File name too long
14:04:46 <singingbanana> в EFnet или DALnet.)
14:04:49 <singingbanana> stilll;
14:05:40 <wob_jonas> `le/rn WNr1VyFtqENzl/WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:05:41 <HackEso> Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
14:05:49 <wob_jonas> `le/rn WNr1VyFtqENzl//WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:05:51 <HackEso> Learned 'wnr1vyftqenzl': WNr1VyFtqENzl is a test wisdom to check if the g->s transition has broken a certain wisdom-creating scrit
14:05:58 <wob_jonas> `forget wnr1vyftqenzl
14:05:59 <HackEso> Forget what?
14:06:07 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: sorry, try with a double slash instead of a single slash
14:06:10 <wob_jonas> and don't put spaces around it
14:06:38 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru//Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esot
14:06:39 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 6: $(echo-p "wisdom/$key"): Is a directory
14:06:41 <singingbanana> EFnet или DALnet.)
14:06:51 <wob_jonas> what?
14:06:57 <wob_jonas> fizzie!
14:06:58 <singingbanana> Now what?
14:07:23 <singingbanana> Whats going on/
14:07:31 <wob_jonas> shachaf: can you help?
14:07:43 <wob_jonas> I'll create it manually in the meanwhile
14:07:53 <singingbanana> What manually?
14:08:06 <wob_jonas> ``` >wisdom/welcome.ru echo 'Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>.'
14:08:06 <HackEso> bash: wisdom/welcome.ru: Is a directory
14:08:12 <wob_jonas> oh right
14:08:19 <wob_jonas> the botched remain of the previous try
14:08:22 <olsner> `? olsner
14:08:23 <HackEso> olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
14:08:24 <wob_jonas> ``` rmdir wisdom/welcome.ru
14:08:25 <HackEso> No output.
14:08:33 <wob_jonas> retry the le//rn command now
14:08:48 <singingbanana> `le/rn welcome.ru//Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esot
14:08:50 <HackEso> Learned 'welcome.ru': Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для
14:08:50 <singingbanana> EFnet или DALnet.)
14:08:55 <singingbanana> Yess!
14:08:58 <wob_jonas> no
14:09:04 <wob_jonas> it's almost good, but its end is truncated
14:09:07 <wob_jonas> `? welcome.ru
14:09:08 <HackEso> ​Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:09:11 <wob_jonas> what's the end of the message supposed to be?
14:09:14 <singingbanana> Oh no!
14:09:31 <singingbanana> другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
14:09:33 <wob_jonas> no worries, the learn just doesn't fit in one irc message, so we have to combine it from multiple commands
14:09:53 <singingbanana> ok.
14:10:23 <singingbanana> So what shall we do
14:10:48 <wob_jonas> give me a moment
14:11:30 <singingbanana> Oh, also I put International center instead of international millenium. Is that OK?
14:13:31 <wob_jonas> `? welcome.ru
14:13:32 <HackEso> ​Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:13:41 <singingbanana> Still...
14:13:44 <wob_jonas> should be fine now I hope, although it's longer than an irc line
14:14:01 -!- FireFly has joined.
14:14:04 <singingbanana> `? welcome.ru
14:14:05 <HackEso> ​Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого ти
14:14:20 <singingbanana> the другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.) is not there
14:14:25 <singingbanana> still
14:14:40 <wob_jonas> it is there in the wisdom, it just doesn't fit an irc line
14:14:59 <wob_jonas> I dunno what we should do about that
14:15:19 <wob_jonas> I mean, I can print it, but we won't be able to get a hackeso command that prints all of it
14:15:33 <wob_jonas> what's the precedent for this? isn't relcome also too long?
14:15:48 <singingbanana> pardon/
14:15:54 <wob_jonas> no it's not
14:15:54 <wob_jonas> no it's not
14:15:56 <wob_jonas> hmm
14:16:00 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ?
14:16:08 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
14:16:21 <wob_jonas> shachaf: what do we do if the localized welcome message doesn't fit in an irc line?
14:17:02 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: the welcome message says "hub", it's only the topic that says "millenium" right now
14:17:03 <wob_jonas> `welcome
14:17:04 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:17:11 <wob_jonas> ^ see, it says "hub"
14:17:28 <singingbanana> Ohhh! Sorry.
14:18:34 <singingbanana> In russian the closest to hub is centre.
14:19:39 <singingbanana> Is there a command to know whos online?
14:22:39 <wob_jonas> who and names, but most irc clients do that on their own
14:22:42 -!- Gregor has joined.
14:22:59 <wob_jonas> in fact the irc server sends you names replies when you join a channel
14:23:17 <wob_jonas> so if you just want the list of nicks joined, you don't have to query anything, just follow what the irc server tells you
14:23:21 <wob_jonas> and most clients do at least that
14:23:35 <wob_jonas> but that doesn't matter
14:23:45 <wob_jonas> we can just bug shachaf or fizzie when they're summoned
14:24:20 <singingbanana> ok
14:24:44 <singingbanana> Shachaf:Come
14:25:02 <singingbanana> fizzie:Come!
14:25:21 <singingbanana> Looks like they are offline!
14:26:00 <wob_jonas> singingbanana: they'll come, don't worry. you get what you pay for. you haven't payed for fast reaction times over the clock.
14:26:22 <singingbanana> Pardon?
14:26:40 <singingbanana> Oh, I get it.
14:27:42 <singingbanana> `emoclew
14:27:43 <HackEso> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW
14:28:17 -!- imode has joined.
14:29:23 <wob_jonas> `wlcm
14:29:24 <HackEso> Wlcm t th ntrntnl hb fr strc prgrmmng lngg dsgn nd dplymnt! Fr mr nfrmtn, chck t r wk: <http://slngs.rg/>. (Fr th thr knd f strc, try #strc n EFnt r DALnt.)
14:29:25 <wob_jonas> `wercome
14:29:26 <HackEso> ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: <http://esolangs.org/>。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ)
14:29:39 <wob_jonas> `Welcome
14:29:40 <HackEso> Welcome To The International Hub For Esoteric Programming Language Design And Deployment! For More Information, Check Out Our Wiki: <Http://Esolangs.Org/>. (For The Other Kind Of Esoterica, Try #Esoteric On EFnet Or DALnet.)
14:29:54 <wob_jonas> `jrypbzr
14:29:55 <HackEso> Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: <uggc://rfbynatf.bet/>. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba RSarg be QNYarg.)
14:30:09 <singingbanana> whats that
14:30:17 <wob_jonas> rot13
14:30:25 <singingbanana> knew it!
14:30:47 <wob_jonas> `wehlcohme
14:30:48 <HackEso> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: <http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/>. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn EhFneht ohr DAhLneht.)
14:31:08 <wob_jonas> that's the hahvahd vehshiohn
14:31:28 <wob_jonas> and there's the eye-burning relcome, and
14:31:37 <wob_jonas> ``` bin/$'\x01'welcome
14:31:37 <HackEso> bash: bin/.welcome: No such file or directory
14:31:39 <wob_jonas> ``` bin/$'\x02'welcome
14:31:41 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:31:43 <wob_jonas> yes, that
14:31:48 <singingbanana> `relcome
14:31:49 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:32:35 <wob_jonas> oh, and the vampire version
14:32:38 <wob_jonas> `velcome
14:32:39 <HackEso> Velcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our viki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:34:15 <wob_jonas> ``` bin/?*w?*e?*l*c*o*m?*e* # there's also this synonym for welcome but I can't type its real name
14:34:16 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:37:22 <singingbanana> Welcome Wo Wehe Winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! Wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp://wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:37:28 <wob_jonas> ``` $'bin/\x0304w\x0308e\x0309l\x0311c\x0312o\x0313m\x0304e\x0F' # that's its actual name
14:37:29 <HackEso> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
14:38:19 <singingbanana> le//rn
14:38:42 <singingbanana> `le//rn welcome.wu/Welcome Wo Wehe Winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! Wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp://wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:38:44 <HackEso> Learned 'welcome.wu/welcome wo wehe winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp:': wesolangs.worg/> (Wufor Wuthe wother Wukinds wof wesoterica, wutry #wesoteric won WEFnet wor WUDALnet)
14:39:01 <singingbanana> Yeah!
14:39:04 <singingbanana> `welcome.wu
14:39:05 <HackEso> ​/srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.wu: not found
14:39:11 <wob_jonas> don't do that
14:39:18 <singingbanana> What?
14:39:20 <wob_jonas> those silly versions don't need a wisdom
14:39:28 <singingbanana> Ok. Sorry.
14:39:37 <singingbanana> How do I delete it?
14:39:41 <wob_jonas> they're present only as executables, and usually dynamic ones that translate the text of welcome
14:39:59 <singingbanana> Pardon?
14:40:16 <singingbanana> Im very sorry...
14:40:23 <singingbanana> actually.
14:40:55 <wob_jonas> `forget welcome.wu
14:40:55 <HackEso> rm: cannot remove 'wisdom/welcome.wu': Is a directory
14:41:01 -!- lynn has joined.
14:41:02 <wob_jonas> ah
14:41:13 <wob_jonas> the double slash thing again
14:41:15 <singingbanana> rmdir?
14:41:28 <wob_jonas> ``` rm -rv wisdom/welcome.wu/
14:41:30 <HackEso> removed 'wisdom/welcome.wu/welcome wo wehe winternational wuhub wufor wesoteric wuprogramming wulanguage wudesign wand wudeployment wu! wufor wumore winformation wucheck wout wour wiki: <wuttp:' \ removed directory 'wisdom/welcome.wu/'
14:41:35 <singingbanana> Thank you!
14:41:46 <singingbanana> I was so embarrased.
14:43:12 <singingbanana> Wait! I can make a esolang using the // thing!
14:43:35 <wob_jonas> you mean like /// ?
14:43:45 <wob_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes
14:44:09 <singingbanana> No! A property can be assigned using //. Like this: Hello//Hello world
14:44:22 <singingbanana> Then: Hello
14:44:41 <singingbanana> It outputs Hello world
14:44:55 <singingbanana> Oh, i see... It is like ///.
14:45:08 <singingbanana> Actually not really!
14:46:20 -!- augur has joined.
14:46:34 <singingbanana> In Slashes, you can do: /12/hi. In // you cant. // is like a variable assignement. var Hello = Hello world.
14:48:32 <singingbanana> But you can do: Hello//Hello world ?//Hello world. Basically var hello = Hello world. Any var == Hello world. True.
14:49:41 <singingbanana> Slashes is string replacement, // is variable assignation!
14:51:32 <singingbanana> After reading the /// page, I noticed you can integrate slashes into a programming language. /"print"?"/n"/"println ?
14:52:00 <singingbanana> Only how can I call it...
14:54:09 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
14:54:28 <singingbanana> // is plagiary. 2slashes also. Varassign? Wisdom_teacher?
14:56:01 <singingbanana> Fungot: How do you think? Is it Turing-complete?
14:56:16 <singingbanana> fungot: Is it Turing-complete?
14:56:29 <singingbanana> fungot : is it Turing-complete
14:56:49 <singingbanana> fungot ; is it Turing-complete
14:56:58 <singingbanana> No answer!
14:57:58 <singingbanana> wob_jonas: where had Fungot dissapeared?
14:58:07 <Taneb> singingbanana: I think fungot has some rate limiting
14:58:07 <fungot> Taneb: i didn't do it!), but there it is
14:58:19 <Taneb> So if you speak to it too much it stops listening to you for a while
14:58:29 <singingbanana> Like, he can only talk a limited amount of time?
14:58:51 <singingbanana> Oh
15:00:33 -!- singingbanana has quit (Quit: singingbanana).
15:02:02 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
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15:02:31 <danil> fungot: Is it Turing-complete
15:02:31 <fungot> danil: you're not getting much if you're not kissing the u.s.
15:02:53 <danil> fungot: Is that a yes or a no?
15:02:54 <fungot> danil: which ones would be more practical ( but less tarpitty)
15:03:10 <danil> Then yes
15:03:50 <danil> So according to FUNGOT, singingbanana's // language is Turing complete!
15:04:11 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:05:01 <wob_jonas> try the `8ball
15:05:11 <danil> `8ball
15:05:11 <HackEso> It is decidedly so.
15:05:15 <wob_jonas> `8ball does fungot hate singingbanan?
15:05:16 <fungot> wob_jonas: i have no idea what it does differnt. does it normally get implemented directly? it's pretty clean.
15:05:16 <HackEso> Don't count on it.
15:05:53 <danil> `8ball Is it Turing complete
15:05:53 <HackEso> I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
15:06:13 <danil> The answer: `8ball
15:06:19 <danil> `8ball
15:06:19 <HackEso> Yes.
15:06:28 <danil> It is!
15:08:03 <danil> So, according to 8ball it is
15:08:08 -!- danil has quit (Quit: danil).
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16:12:08 <fizzie> ^8ball Is `8ball more trustworthy than ^8ball?
16:12:08 <fungot> No.
16:12:18 <wob_jonas> fizzie: no.
16:12:48 <wob_jonas> fizzie: someone keeps editing hackego's bin/8ball so it gives all sorts of random responses that don't appear in the classical magic 8-ball
16:13:10 <wob_jonas> so it's totally untrustworthy
16:13:23 <wob_jonas> also you can make it loaded by quickly editing it in a private message
16:14:02 <wob_jonas> fizzie: we have a slight problem with conventions in hackeso
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16:15:27 <wob_jonas> fizzie: singingbanana tried to create a russian translated version of the welcome. it's in wisdom/welcome.ru now. but it's way too long to fit into a single irc line, so I don't know how the command should work.
16:15:51 <wob_jonas> fizzie: should I ask shachaf about that?
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16:23:53 <fizzie> Hmm. I think optimally it should just be made to fit, dropping some of the less relevant information if it's impossible otherwise. If it really needs to be longer, I guess it should tie into some long-output conventions, which you could ask shachaf about.
16:23:57 <fizzie> It's 429 bytes, that's not really far from fitting.
16:25:30 <wob_jonas> fizzie: yes, I told you it's _way_ too long
16:26:15 <Taneb> What's the target length?
16:26:23 <wob_jonas> what if we make it put the second part to the spam buffer?
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16:27:24 <wob_jonas> Taneb: it's complicated. depends on HackEso's hostname, the channel where the command is invoked, and there's one byte of difference even depending on the listener
16:31:27 <shachaf> `doag bin/8ball
16:31:28 <HackEso> 4566:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e \'s/data/share/\' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going to hit some empty-directory problem again, I\'m sure \ 4564:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mkdir data; mv 8ballreplies data/; sed -i -e \'s|8ballreplies|data/8ballreplies|\' bin/8ball # let\'s keep the /hackenv clean and tidy, everybody \ 456
16:31:56 <shachaf> no evidence of bin/8ball bring edited for 4 years hth
16:32:21 <wob_jonas> `doag share/8ballreplies
16:32:23 <HackEso> 8689:2016-07-04 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "I\'m a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions." >> share/8ballreplies \ 8688:2016-07-04 <hppavilion[1̈]> ` echo "Holy shit, I can\'t believe you\'re even asking me. NO!" >> share/8ballreplies \ 4569:2014-04-15 <oerjän> sed -i \'s/Concantrate/Concentrate/;s/$/./\' sha
16:32:27 <wob_jonas> shachaf: ^
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16:36:44 <fizzie> wob_jonas: The IRC line length limit is complicated, but HackBot's target length is a fixed 350 not including the complicated parts.
16:36:57 <wob_jonas> fizzie: ok
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16:37:13 <wob_jonas> shachaf: what do you say?
16:37:46 <wob_jonas> how should the russian welcome command work? require a `spam for the part about the other type of esoteric?
16:38:13 <shachaf> I recommend making it shorter
16:38:39 <wob_jonas> shachaf: but it's way too long. you know, because it's mostly made of russian letters, which take up two bytes.
16:38:47 <fizzie> It's not *way* too long.
16:39:00 <shachaf> Oh, well, hpp shouldn't be messing with 8ballreplies
16:39:25 <shachaf> hpp lacks finesse
16:39:43 <fizzie> Especially if I bump the HackEso-imposed limit by a little, which could be reasonable. 350 is pretty conservative, since it leaves 160 bytes for the overhead.
16:40:33 <fizzie> ":HackEso!~HackEso@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" doesn't take all that much space, plus some slack for incidentals and the weird registered-or-not prefix thing.
16:40:42 <wob_jonas> shachaf: so do I
16:40:58 <shachaf> `1 cat share/8ballreplies
16:40:59 <HackEso> 1/2:It is certain. \ It is decidedly so. \ Without a doubt. \ Yes definitely. \ You may rely on it. \ As I see it, yes. \ Most likely. \ Outlook good. \ Yes. \ Signs point to yes. \ Reply hazy try again. \ Ask again later. \ Better not tell you now. \ Cannot predict now. \ Concentrate and ask again. \ Don't count on it. \ My reply is no. \ My sourc
16:41:08 <shachaf> `n
16:41:09 <HackEso> 2/2:es say no. \ Outlook not so good. \ Very doubtful. \ Holy shit, I can't believe you're even asking me. NO! \ I'm a random number generator that reads from a file. Make your own damn decisions.
16:41:17 <wob_jonas> fizzie: there's also a plus and two bytes of newline (the server always sends crlf, even though it accepts lf)
16:41:37 <wob_jonas> fizzie: and in the welcome commands, we allow a nick
16:41:37 <shachaf> `2 doag share/8ballreplies
16:41:37 <fizzie> wob_jonas: The 160 was 510-350.
16:41:39 <HackEso> 2/2: share/8ballreplies \ 4568:2014-04-15 <oerjän> sed -i \'21,$d\' share/8ballreplies #More fun than `revert \ 4567:2014-04-15 <int-̈e> ` echo 42 >> share/8ballreplies \ 4566:2014-04-15 <fizzïe> mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e \'s/data/share/\' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going to hit some empty-directory problem again, I\'m sure
16:41:44 <wob_jonas> `velkommen shachaf
16:41:45 <HackEso> shachaf: Hei og velkommen til det internasjonale knutepunktet for esoterisk programmeringsspråkdesign og -utrulling! For mer informasjon, se wikien vår: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For den andre typen esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på EFnet eller DALnet.)
16:41:58 <wob_jonas> and the nick on freenode can be up to, what, 15 or 16 bytes? let me look that up
16:43:32 <fizzie> 429 (payload) + 2 (crlf) + 51 (command) + 1 (that thing) + 18 (let's say nick, colon and space) = 501.
16:43:33 <wob_jonas> 16. and the channel length can be up to 50 bytes on freenode (it's even longer on some other networks).
16:43:36 <shachaf> `` hg cat -r 4569 share/8ballreplies > share/ballreplies
16:43:38 <HackEso> No output.
16:43:44 <fizzie> Yes, but this is #esoteric, not an arbitrary channel.
16:43:52 <wob_jonas> yeah, that's true
16:44:13 <wob_jonas> if you control hackeso, you can also make its username shorter
16:44:31 <fizzie> Assuming multibot supports that.
16:44:37 <wob_jonas> the hostname is harder to make shorter, it requires buying domains and dns and setting up dns and reverse dns entries
16:44:54 <shachaf> Oh, that's a good idea
16:45:31 <shachaf> fizzie already has a pretty short domain name
16:45:43 <wob_jonas> yeah.
16:45:44 <fizzie> logPrint("USER %s localhost localhost :MultiBot\r\n", nick);
16:46:05 <fizzie> Guess it's always the nick. Though I could patch it.
16:46:30 <fizzie> Or run an identd, I guess.
16:46:52 <wob_jonas> fizzie: the identd can cut one more byte, the tilde
16:47:28 <shachaf> Yes, that's why fizzie just suggested it
16:47:42 <fizzie> Well, and because it would mean I don't have to patch the code.
16:48:16 <wob_jonas> fizzie: I don't think it works that way
16:48:30 <fizzie> Does it have to match the provided one?
16:48:34 <wob_jonas> I don't really know, but I thought the tilde disappears only if the USER and the identd response is string equal
16:48:39 <wob_jonas> but I'm not sure really
16:48:40 <fizzie> Could be. Would make sense.
16:48:40 <wob_jonas> I never tried
16:48:45 <wob_jonas> let me ask #freenode
16:49:47 <shachaf> I propose migrating to #eso
16:50:27 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what if you just make it join with a short nick, then immediately reNICK him?
16:51:08 <fizzie> That's probably not much simpler than just hardcoding the username in there.
16:51:39 <wob_jonas> or add a proxy between it that rewrites the USER line? um wait, is it using ssl?
16:51:49 <fizzie> I won't have time for mucking around with identd (going on vacation), but I think I could switch it to "~h" and bump the hackbot limit to what the current setup can support.
16:51:57 <fizzie> No, it's not.
16:51:58 <wob_jonas> nope, no ssl
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16:55:57 <fizzie> `? welcome.ru
16:55:58 <HackEso> ​Добро пожаловать в Международный центр по разработке и внедрению языков эзотерического программирования! Для получения дополнительной информации посетите wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Для другого типа эзотеризма попробуйте #esoteric в EFnet или DALnet.)
16:56:31 <wob_jonas> I want an irc server that doesn't even bother telling the real username and host in the username@host part, just pretends it's always a@a.
16:56:36 <fizzie> There should be 31 bytes of slack for adding a "nick: " in front.
16:58:34 <wob_jonas> fizzie: 18 bytes of slack on freenode
16:58:49 <wob_jonas> fizzie: on freenode, the max nick length is 16
16:58:56 <wob_jonas> this depends on the network
16:59:54 <wob_jonas> fizzie: #freenode tells me an identd might be enough alone
17:00:09 <wob_jonas> I haven't tried setting up an identd yet, so I don't know
17:00:56 <wob_jonas> how complicated is an identd?
17:00:57 <fizzie> I mean, the limit I set (which is close to the maximum with some rounding-off since I probably didn't count right) was 460 bytes, so since that message is 429, there's currently 31 bytes left. The nick part is under the hackbot limit, since it's part of the body.
17:01:18 <wob_jonas> like a fake indentd that is, one that always tells the username is "a"
17:01:40 <fizzie> There's a lot of them around. I think I've used... oidentd?
17:02:05 <fizzie> There's probably some that are very simple if that's all you want. oidentd can do a mixture of fake and real replies.
17:02:27 <wob_jonas> I'd prefer all fake. less chance of accidental security bugs.
17:03:35 <fizzie> You probably could use "while true; do echo ... | nc -l ...; done" as your identd for that. Though I'm not sure how security-minded netcat implementations are.
17:03:54 <fizzie> Oh, I guess it needs a bit more than that, since it needs to copy the input to the output.
17:04:15 <wob_jonas> fizzie: basically I don't know how involved the identd protocol is
17:04:25 <fizzie> It's ancient, so very simple.
17:04:53 <fizzie> Line-oriented, input is two decimal integers "N, M" and output is "N, M : USERID : UNIX : a" in your case.
17:05:07 <fizzie> (The integers being the local and remote ports of the connection.)
17:06:06 <fizzie> (I'm sure someone's written a very simple constant-response identd.)
17:06:28 <fizzie> "nullidentd" sounds like a likely candidate.
17:06:34 <fizzie> "nullidentd is a small, fast and secure identd daemon. It returns a static string for every query."
17:09:00 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
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17:15:45 <wob_jonas> fizzie: I see
17:16:40 -!- imode has joined.
17:17:19 <wob_jonas> in English, are there two different verbs of which the present participle form is the same? there's this rule about doubling the final letters that avoids that most of the time, but I think there was some strange example where a collision still happened.
17:18:13 <wob_jonas> I'm wondering because of Intercal, which has the "abstain from fooing" thing
17:24:08 <Taneb> wob_jonas: I think there are
17:31:23 <wob_jonas> `quote
17:31:23 <HackEso> 436) <fungot> elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'.
17:31:27 <wob_jonas> `recipe
17:31:27 <HackEso> drate, 5g fat, 8 g \ carbohydrate, 157mg, potassiol and lot of other \ from living main dampenage for yours. Is evenants will pieces of bag \ will rolled for cooking. \ \ From fat and the cold with a chili sesame bitter exchanges. \ \ Source: Per Serving: 2008 Cylils, 1988. Source: Instansonine/chili of Advisory \ Soups "SAUCE" Company: Beat in All Parmesan cheese \ \ Source: Levan Cookbook our I'll Green seasoning. It have add the shrimp in a
17:31:31 <wob_jonas> `random-card
17:31:31 <HackEso> Pristine Angel \ 4WW \ Creature -- Angel \ 4/4 \ Flying \ As long as Pristine Angel is untapped, it has protection from artifacts and from all colors. \ Whenever you cast a spell, you may untap Pristine Angel. \ DST-R, CNS-M
17:32:00 <wob_jonas> "potassiol"?
17:32:16 <wob_jonas> and "sampenage"? recipe isn't usually inventing words
17:32:26 <wob_jonas> "Instansonine" too?
17:35:03 <fizzie> Are mat and matte different verbs, and what's the present participle of the latter?
17:35:06 <fizzie> (Wordnet has "entangle, tangle, mat, snarl" and "felt, felt up, mat up, matt-up, matte up, matte, mat" as two separate entries with relatively different meanings.)
17:35:29 <wob_jonas> let me check my dict
17:35:58 <fizzie> FWIW, wiktionary doesn't accept it as a verb at all, so.
17:36:36 <wob_jonas> fizzie: you're right, both have "matting" as their present participle according to my dict
17:37:10 <wob_jonas> that should work, yes
17:37:19 <fizzie> I didn't really come up with it spontaneously, used cat /usr/share/dict/words | egrep '([b-df-hj-np-tv-z])\1[aeiou]$' for inspiration.
17:37:48 <wob_jonas> so what should "(300) DO REINSTATE MATTING" do if the interpreter supports both the "MAT" and "MATTE" commands?
17:45:54 <wob_jonas> by the way, the dictionary actually says that "matte" is a variant spelling of "matt", and that "matt" is a verb whose present participle is "matting", but that still works fine
17:53:43 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
17:55:23 <wob_jonas> zzo38: M:tG: Dominaria Update Bulletin https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/dominaria-update-bulletin-2018-04-13
17:58:10 -!- j-bot has joined.
18:11:09 <wob_jonas> oh here he is. hello, j-bot!
18:11:13 <wob_jonas> [. %:10
18:11:14 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228
18:11:22 <wob_jonas> [ ,~%:10
18:11:23 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228 3.16228
18:11:42 <wob_jonas> [ 10^0.5
18:11:43 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 3.16228
18:12:30 <Taneb> [ */i.10
18:12:31 <j-bot> Taneb: 0
18:12:41 <Taneb> [ */1+i.10
18:12:42 <j-bot> Taneb: 3628800
18:18:03 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name damping sphere
18:18:03 <HackEso> No output.
18:20:05 <zzo38> They mention the changes there but the changes do not seem to actually be posted yet?
18:20:49 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, the bulletin is always days before the comp rules comes out, because the comp rule changes goes through an editing phase after it leaves the rules manager's desk
18:21:02 <wob_jonas> the modified rules will come out in a week or two
18:23:39 <zzo38> OK
18:23:47 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name plummet
18:23:47 <HackEso> Plummet \ 1G \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with flying. \ ARC-C, M11-C, M12-C, M13-C, M14-C, CNS-C, M15-C, MM2-C, ORI-C, BFZ-C, CN2-C
18:24:08 <shachaf> plummet is tg
18:27:08 <wob_jonas> dunno, Dominaria seems a bit underwhelming for me.
18:27:14 <zzo38> Since, I have some questions, which are not answered in that update bulletin but I expect will be once the rules are actually posted, such as a few things about Sagas
18:27:47 <wob_jonas> some people were really enthusiastic about it, but I don't know what they saw in it
18:27:57 <wob_jonas> and now I'm looking at all the cards
18:28:07 <zzo38> I like the cards I have seen for Dominaria; I prefer Time Spiral, but they already did Time Spiral so now they are going to make something else instead.
18:28:22 <zzo38> (And there are things I would have done that WotC is unlikely to do, anyways)
18:28:45 <wob_jonas> there are a very few cards I like, sure, but in the whole it looks ugly, and too few cards grab my attention
18:28:47 <zzo38> There are two things I don't like, the phrasing "any target" and the way legendary sorceries are working.
18:30:03 <wob_jonas> but I guess not all sets can be winners. there's still all the cards from other sets.
18:30:14 <wob_jonas> it's not like anyone forces me to choose cards from this set
18:30:58 <zzo38> Now if other card having the same restriction as legendary sorceries, that is messy! And, "legendary" isn't supposed to working like legendary sorceries do anyways it doesn't make sense! I propose those cards should remain legendary, but also add a keyword ability with the meaning that is now for legendary sorceries, but that keyword ability is suitable for any playable card.
18:31:26 <zzo38> wob_jonas: They do, if you enter those tournament, but you do not need to enter those kind of tournament
18:34:25 <zzo38> Not all of the .*rc files are used to "run commands", although some are.
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18:39:59 <wob_jonas> oooh!
18:41:04 <wob_jonas> Charge is a card I like. this effect used to cost 3 mana, then later 2 mana, sometimes even 2 mana with advantages, and Ravnica almost has a 1 mana version, but this is the first time they print it straight up for 1 mana I think
18:43:57 <wob_jonas> it might not practically be better than the ravnica version (Wojek Siren), but still, it's good to know that it exists now
18:44:29 <shachaf> Hmm, in C you can index a 2D array arr as "x[arr][y]"
18:46:04 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the article even says that: "eep in mind that this article was written before the rules changes were finalized in editing, so there may be minor deviations from what I describe below."
19:25:50 <zzo38> {-} Planeswalker Land (4) ;; +1: Add {U}. ;; -1: Add {W}. ;; -1: Add {B}.
19:31:31 <FireFly> wob_jonas: it disappeared briefly because VPS provider's switch had some hiccups
19:31:56 <wob_jonas> FireFly: what disappeared? j-bot?
19:32:00 <FireFly> Yeah
19:32:05 <wob_jonas> ok
19:32:09 <wob_jonas> I'm glad it's back
19:37:22 <int-e> zzo38: what's the ;;? life?
19:37:35 <int-e> mm
19:37:57 <int-e> nah, I guess it should be tapping... so what's the number by itself?
19:38:53 <zzo38> int-e: The ;; is the paragraph separator
19:39:17 <zzo38> The abilities are loyalty abilities (so, not mana abilities)
19:39:18 <wob_jonas> int-e: the number is loyalty cost in a loyalty ability
19:40:44 <wob_jonas> we should really use fake keywords for that, especially now that we have levels, saga chapters, and loyalties
19:40:56 <wob_jonas> by fake keywords I mean a keyword that isn't printed on the card
19:41:13 <zzo38> Levels and saga chapters are keyword abilities
19:41:26 <wob_jonas> sure, but is there a keyword we can use to mark them?
19:41:32 <wob_jonas> or syntax or something
19:41:35 <wob_jonas> to mark them in plain text
19:41:50 <wob_jonas> when they aren't printed to a card formatted with those shaded or boxed elements
19:41:51 <zzo38> Yes, I don't know how to represent them in ASCII; I thought perhaps something like <I> or <II> for chapters
19:42:10 <wob_jonas> no no, just use a plain word
19:42:24 <zzo38> Perhaps "Chapter I--"
19:42:26 <wob_jonas> like "chapter 1 - foo" and "-1 loyalty - foo"
19:42:34 <int-e> wob_jonas: ah, newfangled nonsense
19:42:49 <wob_jonas> int-e: sort of. but levels aren't.
19:43:17 <zzo38> Loyalty abilities are still activated abilities, but it is a special kind of activated abilities compared with the other kind
19:43:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: and it's exactly because it's newfangled nonsense that I want to use words for them, rather than (like some plain text representations) reserve square brackets for such unimportant things as loyalty abilities
19:45:14 <wob_jonas> zzo38: how would you represent the level boxes, like those on Joraga Treespeaker, in plain text?
19:45:47 <wob_jonas> I guess I should eventually check how scryfall's database represents them
19:46:00 <zzo38> I don't know. Possibly: Level 1-4 (1/2)--{T}: Add {GG}.
19:46:16 <wob_jonas> in parenthesis? that would be confusing
19:46:41 <zzo38> Yes, you are correct
19:46:48 <zzo38> Use of parentheses is wrong here
19:46:49 <wob_jonas> also, how about Coralhelm Commander? that's even worse
19:47:23 <zzo38> Perhaps just drop the parentheses
19:48:53 <zzo38> But yes, that is even worse now I saw
19:49:57 <wob_jonas> there's Kargan Dragonlord too
19:51:15 <wob_jonas> `? 5
19:51:15 <zzo38> The rules seem to use {LEVEL} to represent the level symbol
19:51:16 <HackEso> ​`5 <cmd> is equivalent to repeating `` <cmd> 5 times, then splitting the output into irc-sized pieces. <cmd> defaults to "quote". See `1, `4 and `spam. Confusingly _not_ the obvious generalization of `2.
19:51:54 <wob_jonas> `? sport
19:51:55 <HackEso> sport <n> divides its input into irc-sized pieces and displays the nth (default first). The pipe version of `1. See also spore.
19:52:03 <wob_jonas> `? spore
19:52:04 <HackEso> spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
19:53:17 <zzo38> You could also use {} to represent chapter symbols, but it becomes confusing if any card ever has ten chapters, so "Chapter I--" may be better
19:54:00 <wob_jonas> ten chapters? would that even fit on a silver-bordered card?
19:54:26 <zzo38> I doubt it, but I don't know. Maybe if it is multiple same chapters it might?
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19:59:17 <zzo38> Maybe on a artless card it might fit
20:00:16 <wob_jonas> completely artless is unlikely, but you could have something with reduced quantity of art, like the Greater Morphling
20:00:16 <zzo38> ASCII representations of Magic: the Gathering cards is useful not only for stuff such as IRC and writing documents that are plain text files, but may also be used as input to programs that can render the cards.
20:00:48 <wob_jonas> (or JMS)
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20:03:15 <wob_jonas> or you could fit a lot of chapters on the melded backside of two cards
20:04:21 <zzo38> I have also used double square brackets to represent flavor text, and double angle brackets for notes that are not part of the card text or the flavor text. I also used "pseudotypes" to represent color indicators, and sometimes also to represent rarity.
20:05:20 <wob_jonas> as in an overcomplicated card like Old Fogey or Blast from the Past
20:07:14 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name transguild
20:07:15 <HackEso> Transguild Courier \ 4 \ Artifact Creature -- Golem \ 3/3 \ [White/Blue/Black/Red/Green color indicator.] \ DIS-U \ \ Transguild Promenade \ Land \ Transguild Promenade enters the battlefield tapped. \ When Transguild Promenade enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you pay {1}. \ {T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. \ RTR-C, C13-C, C16-C, CMA-C
20:08:41 <wob_jonas> wait what? I was thinking of the first one, but that second one is surprising. I didn't know there was a Rupture Spire before Alara
20:08:59 <wob_jonas> and in common too
20:09:02 <wob_jonas> how did I not know that?
20:09:29 <wob_jonas> oh I see!
20:09:37 <wob_jonas> it's not before Alara. it's in RTR
20:09:43 <wob_jonas> duh, that explains it
20:09:59 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54797&oldid=54451 * DMC * (+67)
20:16:49 <zzo38> A few of the .*rc files in my computer are used to run commands, such as .bashrc and .vimrc, but the rest of them aren't. I suppose, they still call them "run commands" though
20:18:10 <esowiki> [[NoRAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54798&oldid=54528 * DMC * (+1) /* The Instruction set */
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20:23:05 <esowiki> [[Bitter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54799&oldid=54690 * DMC * (+106) /* Commands */
20:27:27 <esowiki> [[User:DMC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54800&oldid=54797 * DMC * (+7)
20:29:57 <fizzie> shachaf: Also y[x[arr]], of course. But maybe that's less oddish.
20:30:26 <fizzie> (Also I would've expected the y and x labels be as in arr[y][x] instead of what you did.)
20:40:02 <FireFly> arr[y][x] is the normal way to index a 2D array though
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20:48:34 <fizzie> FireFly: Yes, that's what I meant. "x[arr][y]" doesn't match that.
20:50:04 <fizzie> arr[y][x] <=> y[arr][x] <=> x[y[arr]] vs. arr[x][y] <=> x[arr][y] <=> y[x[arr]].
20:51:25 <FireFly> ah
21:01:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54801&oldid=37097 * DMC * (+167)
21:02:15 <esowiki> [[Talk:Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=54802&oldid=54801 * DMC * (+4) /* Linear Feedback Shift Register */
21:16:27 <shachaf> fizzie: Fair enough
21:21:18 <zzo38> Do you know how to do with Fossil so that in case of any timewarps you can cause it to regenerate it so that they are now in order (so that you can make diff/blame of them by time)?
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21:46:33 <shachaf> There's actually no reason for (arr + i) to be commutative, is there?
21:46:42 <shachaf> It's more like a group action than like addition.
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21:55:18 <zzo38> I thought of a way to add operator overloading into C and it requires that x[y] is the same as *(x+y) and that addition is always commutative
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22:25:02 <shachaf> Integer addition in C isn't always associative, right?
22:25:20 <shachaf> INT_MAX + 1 + (-1)
22:28:27 <int-e> yay for undefined behavior
22:29:11 <shachaf> And of course there's float addition.
22:29:33 <shachaf> imo what if required two's complement
22:30:02 <int-e> but at least + should be commutative (for ints and for floats as well)
22:30:47 <shachaf> a + b where a and b are the same type, sure.
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23:03:59 <wob_jonas> int-e: floating-point addition isn't actually commutative, but everyone (including compilers) pretend that it is, because it's essentially commutative
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23:04:53 <shachaf> When is floating-point addition not commutative?
23:05:06 <wob_jonas> the only thing that breaks commutativity is that the representation of the NaN you get from adding two NaNs is undefined, and there are like three to five different ways it's actually computed depending on the cpu architecture and instruction, plus a few more if the compiler swaps the arguments
23:05:20 <shachaf> Ah.
23:06:06 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a proposal for C2x to require two's-complement.
23:06:31 <zzo38> My ideas about how to improve C programming language also requires two's complement
23:06:45 <fizzie> Or rather there's a WG21 proposal for C++ whatever-number-it-is to require two's-complement, and they've asked WG14 to consider if they'd be okay with adopting the same rules.
23:07:08 <zzo38> I also thought there should be some way to make hygienic macros
23:08:19 <zzo38> (As well as many GNU extensions, such as zero-length arrays, empty structures, ?: with nothing in between, and a few others)
23:08:37 <wob_jonas> There's the 387 way of copying the NaN argument with the higher mantissa, which is commutative, but only the x87 instructions do that, and even there I'm only sure on intel cpus as opposed to AMD; there's the x86 SSE/AVX way of copying the first argument; the MMIX way of copying the second argument; and the ARM way that I don't recall but seemed di
23:08:38 <wob_jonas> stinct from these;
23:08:50 <wob_jonas> and these are just the ones hardware do, software implementations could do something else.
23:10:08 <wob_jonas> Note in particular that the SSE method and the MMIX method are actually different for subtraction and division, you can't just swap the arguments to get one from the other.
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