< 1527120006 707793 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric > 1527121977 514405 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55334&oldid=55318 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (-7) 10/* The s variable group */ < 1527122206 497278 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527122551 977524 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527122721 379172 :hppavilion[1]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds > 1527122939 950347 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55335&oldid=55334 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+47) 10 < 1527123237 480311 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1527125024 29195 :hppavilion[0]!~dosgmowdo@160-7-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1527125851 248506 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1527125930 128543 :Martha!~IceChat9@mtrlpq4407w-lp140-02-70-49-120-2.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1527126837 687773 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1527126844 530953 :Storkman!~Storkman@storkman.xyz JOIN :#esoteric < 1527127505 18645 :Martha!~IceChat9@mtrlpq4407w-lp140-02-70-49-120-2.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! < 1527128449 153192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm using this new editor Kakoune and its scripting language is like an esolang. < 1527128480 409789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only control flow (other than running a shell) is try-catch < 1527128573 375941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands' official names are their keybindings, so I keep writing programs that look like "aZ;gi"bZ"az;gi"bu < 1527128649 234561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether it's TC without %sh{}? < 1527128665 647441 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it is. < 1527128713 532160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's also a kind of looping primitive. < 1527129940 377956 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527130085 442740 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make a wiki page for it hth < 1527130132 556533 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, solve some PPCG challenges < 1527130191 637735 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wow :o < 1527130339 914634 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527131164 892624 :chal_!49fcd62f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.73.252.214.47 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1527131375 69164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't do wikis htdnh < 1527131381 342010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? htdnh < 1527131382 543769 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :htdnh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527131392 256995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dnh < 1527131393 359128 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527131425 970765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? dth < 1527131427 195942 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dth is the dth ordinal. dth? < 1527131456 56250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doughnuts to horses, i thought that wouldn't be defined < 1527131460 759530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dowg dth < 1527131462 938316 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :10949:2017-05-24 le//rn dth//dth is the dth ordinal. dth? < 1527131471 139368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What! < 1527131477 327137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale edits the wisdom database? < 1527131502 434737 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :under a pseudonym, it seems < 1527131516 885923 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1527131524 914101 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the diarrhea < 1527131890 928401 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gymooskzogrghrwj QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1527134674 461547 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1527134949 270806 :moony!moony@unaffiliated/moonythedwarf JOIN :#esoteric < 1527136210 118890 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1527137130 555585 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ketrshcblkxgifre JOIN :#esoteric < 1527137860 797368 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527137863 187437 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A HELP CHANNEL WHERE THE HELP DON'T KNOW SHIT BUT INSTEAD OF SAYING THEY DON'T SHIT THEY WILL SPEND 10 MINS JERKING YOUR CHAIN?? LOOK NO FURTHER THAN #UBUNTU A CHANNEL FULL OF DUMB NIGGERS THAT DON'T KNOW SHIT!! < 1527137863 523675 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A HELP CHANNEL WHERE THE HELP DON'T KNOW SHIT BUT INSTEAD OF SAYING THEY DON'T SHIT THEY WILL SPEND 10 MINS JERKING YOUR CHAIN?? LOOK NO FURTHER THAN #UBUNTU A CHANNEL FULL OF DUMB NIGGERS THAT DON'T KNOW SHIT!! < 1527137866 80888 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkapastel tswett moony arseniiv Storkman imode oerjan sftp joast Sgeo_ MDude doesthiswork tromp vertrex jix Cale alercah moei variable Guest6451 hakatashi sprocklem Warrigal_ newsham sebbu contrapumpkin danieljabailey puckipedia xa0 pikhq lambdabot Bowserinator ProofTechnique[m grumble mniip int-e rdococ diginet APic Lord_of_Life incomprehensibly esowiki b_jonas myname zemhill__ relrod catern staffehn Elronnd quintopia uplime paul25 < 1527137866 82187 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x k a p a s t e l t s w e t t m o o n y a r s e n i i v S t o r k m a n i m o d e o e r j a n s f t p j o a s t S g e o _ M D u d e d o e s t h i s w o r k t r o m p v e r t r e x j i x C a l e a l e r c a h m o e i v a r i a b l e G u e s t 6 4 5 1 h a k a t a s h i s p r o c k l e m W a r r i g a l _ n e w s h a m s e b b u c o n t r a p u m p k i n d a n i e l j a b a i l e y < 1527137866 203178 :irCobHead!~mdpeql@node-gb9.pool-1-1.dynamic.totbb.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1527137896 279793 :rdococ!rdococ@unaffiliated/rdococ PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1527137955 575836 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unusual spam message < 1527138696 100084 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1527140029 143481 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1527141669 577319 :oerjan!oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1527143187 262961 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1527145091 48393 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ketrshcblkxgifre QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1527149118 770177 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1527149297 41324 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527149337 254041 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1527149574 33802 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1527151890 161678 :felt!~max@105.186.117.182 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527152279 18409 :felt!~max@105.186.117.182 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1527152921 142220 :Hooloovo0!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1527152921 218956 :Elronnd!elronnd@slashem.me QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1527153242 207895 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Ping timeout: 608 seconds < 1527153347 531755 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527153550 89244 :Elronnd!elronnd@slashem.me JOIN :#esoteric < 1527154342 910033 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527154373 71987 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1527154373 247878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1527154519 127559 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 NICK :ais523 < 1527154526 289373 :ais523!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1527154526 409793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1527154528 321868 :ais523!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 NICK :ais523_ < 1527154865 575398 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1527154913 369382 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1527154941 879127 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1527155051 552982 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Andromeda is really similar to an esolang I've been working on < 1527155457 712411 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527155459 548869 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? towel < 1527155460 803321 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :towel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527155462 450554 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? towel day < 1527155463 702636 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :towel day? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527155469 215595 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? international talk like a pirate day < 1527155470 270345 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :international talk like a pirate day? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527155473 370051 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? itlpd < 1527155474 436581 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itlpd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1527156285 381761 :grumblr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble JOIN :#esoteric < 1527156861 578683 :grumble!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble QUIT :Ping timeout: 606 seconds < 1527156863 926217 :grumblr!~grumble@freenode/staff/grumble NICK :grumble > 1527157283 92903 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Along and Across14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55336 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+5096) 10new language/meta-language > 1527157302 843684 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55337&oldid=54357 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+22) 10+[[Along and Across]] > 1527157330 542445 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55338&oldid=55316 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (+23) 10+[[Along and Across]] < 1527157346 498327 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :towel day is tomorrow < 1527157356 550146 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a /different/ esolang from the one I've been working on < 1527157365 242536 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I'm working on something like three esolangs at once < 1527157371 877350 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523! you're here! < 1527157378 869046 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Along and Across, the one that's simlar to Andromeda, and a third one) < 1527157406 973879 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I'm here < 1527157442 796205 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, I've actually been working on four esolangs at once < 1527157454 272932 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's good to have one documented so I can go back to working on only three of them :-) < 1527157502 965042 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's if you ignore the esolang projects that I have running in the background but haven't been working on much, like The Underlambda Project) < 1527157572 904059 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you all were right when you complained about windows terminals. I just ran a vim in a mintty on a modern windows machine, maximized with 9x20 font so 46x191 cells, and scrolling down a long list by going to the next page with each control-F keypress, and the terminal was noticably slow to draw the next page < 1527157588 335984 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1527157595 458830 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is working out exactly what's wrong so that you can work around it < 1527157610 8316 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it sometimes doesn't happen but nobody seems to know the exact trigger < 1527157624 556754 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1527157752 875424 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from this though, mintty was quite usable, and easy to install too: you just unpack the portable git for windows tarball, which has not only mintty but a lot of other useful utilities like vim, cat, grep, sort, less, diff, diff3, patch, cmp, curl, openssl, sha256sum, perl. < 1527157774 569588 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does patch actually work with that filename? < 1527157790 809085 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spares me from installing some smaller packages separately < 1527157797 490207 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows actually special-cases the filename patch.exe, so you'd need some sort of manifest in the executable to undo the special case < 1527157797 982673 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what filename? < 1527157807 726929 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, really? < 1527157815 376290 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to elevate it to admin < 1527157821 802643 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few other names like that, such as setup.exe < 1527157828 158172 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1527157838 294279 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember. < 1527157845 623188 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can override this behaviour in both directions, you just have to know you have to and to know how < 1527157849 967485 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test < 1527157906 60528 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may have been the problem when I installed diffutils from the http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html distro, I don't recall the details < 1527157962 867078 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean whoever compiled git for windows could override that in both directions by putting something in the exe itself, or I can override it by some system-local setting? < 1527158057 732124 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the exe itself < 1527158071 416465 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch seems to work < 1527158079 633998 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NH4 has this sort of metadata to tell Windows whether to open a terminal window for it or not < 1527158099 111697 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the maintainers of git for windows have solved this properly then < 1527158105 225840 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1527158115 90127 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have had to run into it while testing, surely :-) < 1527158118 877357 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty good port, as far as you can go with close to native windows experience < 1527158123 944545 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1527158157 871831 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the porters are probably git enthusiasts, they'd never use bare diff/diff3/patch, they always put everything in vcs and use git subcommands for that < 1527158213 752545 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're going to ship an executable, wouldn't you run it at least once to see if it runs? < 1527158218 678370 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's redundant to the other tools you use < 1527158268 24788 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it's very rare for me to use grep nowadays (the "make a better grep" wars have lead to a number of better alternatives), but I'd run it to make sure it worked if I were going to ship it < 1527158268 169228 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: they don't ship those individually, they get it from some upstream mingw thingy < 1527158280 434776 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, compile tools in mingw by bulk < 1527158300 433960 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1527158311 32548 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe mingw figured out and fixed the problem, then < 1527158314 185555 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and msys and whatever these things are < 1527158316 864581 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just mingw < 1527158322 443448 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patch exe is from msyss < 1527158353 827857 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think it's x86_64... though I don't have a binutils handy so I can't check it. does the compat exception still apply to x86_64 exes? < 1527158363 331777 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, not sure though > 1527158546 603400 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Along and Across14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55339&oldid=55336 5* 03Ais523 non-admin 5* (-1) 10/* Computational class */ distinguish may-termination from must-termination; Thue is non-deterministic < 1527158550 691711 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527158562 104478 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah https://superuser.com/q/894170/267786 < 1527158816 145553 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll answer that question then < 1527159291 602414 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net QUIT :Quit: BLIND CHICKEN < 1527159527 537745 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… is it true that for any push-down automaton, there's another push-down automaton that recognises the same string backwards? < 1527159544 756877 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clearly is for nondeterministic PDAs, it's less obvious if you require both to be deterministic though < 1527159574 3151 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is equivalent to asking whether an LR(n) language remains LR(n) if you reverse the sequence of lexemes < 1527159741 100885 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. the analog is known for deterministic automata, though the size can blow up. < 1527159771 462741 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? is it really equivalent to that LR(n) thing? < 1527159826 992225 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deterministic PDAs recognise LR(n) languages and all LR(n) languages have some deterministic PDA that recognises them < 1527159872 951157 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious that finite-state machines can be reversed because they're equivalent in power to regular expressions and regular expressions can be reversed; the same sort of argument works for nondeterministic PDAs < 1527159878 407697 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but deterministic PDAs is harder < 1527159971 665102 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :deterministic PDAs recognise LR(n) languages => hmm, I don't remember this claim. does it matter if the PDA can have null transitions? probably no. < 1527159976 895767 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell that all LR(n) languages can be recognised by a PDA via using an explicit implementation, like yacc :-) < 1527159982 124822 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it outputs PDAs) < 1527159984 249998 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go < 1527159999 794639 :ais523_!93bcc35a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.90 QUIT :Quit: meeting < 1527160004 202208 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell that all LR(n) languages can be recognised by a PDA via using an explicit implementation, like yacc => I think YACC is not enough for that, but yes, I know that part < 1527160237 897576 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527160929 158526 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! look < 1527160934 261630 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/amends/ < 1527160934 829239 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist http://pbfcomics.com/comics/amends/: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion b_jonas Cale < 1527164188 412974 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1527164234 471365 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1527164691 319433 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1527164764 926556 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1527164961 186866 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1527165284 929384 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1527165596 580732 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 " e.g. it's very rare for me to use grep nowadays (the "make a better grep" wars have lead to a number of better alternatives), but I'd run it to make sure it worked if I were going to ship it" <-- Now I'm curious, what do you recommend instead of grep? < 1527165596 706767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1527165898 61576 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag < 1527165966 205776 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to have a proper context-sensitive grep for strings that span multiple lines, but i haven't found one that does exactly what i want < 1527166001 946207 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1527166009 716932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: csearch (debian package called codesearch iirc) is good to index and then regex search really really large code bases with < 1527166019 750616 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag I think I heard of now that you mentioned it < 1527166023 752479 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :will look at it < 1527166070 131772 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean < 1527166074 881782 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have something like this < 1527166082 5266 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) { < 1527166093 549447 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : error_log("this is a long" < 1527166104 575107 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : " error message" < 1527166109 235068 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : " that spans" < 1527166109 304823 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1527166116 53649 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : " multiple lines"); < 1527166117 956946 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1527166126 436166 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would need to be aware of the specific language though < 1527166128 637218 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i want to grep for 'this is a long error message that spans multiple lines' < 1527166130 861696 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1527166171 459379 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1527166179 665585 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I would like to be able to grep for error_log calls nested inside a if condition that (possibly only in part) depend on foo < 1527166204 906680 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also annoyingly hard < 1527166213 311115 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1527166226 250329 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous how bad the state of the art is < 1527166241 845945 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc for C there is a tool for the latter thing though < 1527166254 85313 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :developed by the linux kernel devs < 1527166258 679284 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember the name of it < 1527166277 668532 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coccinelle.lip6.fr/ < 1527166298 67466 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no use for it, I write C++ and Python mostly < 1527166305 409950 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for my day job I mean) < 1527166339 847495 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: might be of use to you, if you code in C < 1527166351 370814 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, i'll have a look < 1527166848 36233 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: and yeah, if you just want speed for regex search on multi-GB code bases, nothing beats csearch < 1527166878 84309 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it creates and index with trigrams and uses the literal trigrams in your regex to narrow down which files to even look at < 1527166939 272671 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't support back references though, it only supports the limited regex dialect that can be compiled down to a DFA (as opposed to what PCRE and other backtracking implementations can do) < 1527166961 506361 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have multi gb < 1527166970 752530 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that many companies have such codebases < 1527167145 115861 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I work with a large project (about 1 GB source code, some consists of shared platform code, sure) targeting a cross-compiling internally produced device SDK (also really large). I use csearch to index all the source in the SDK and the project. Works very well < 1527167183 295183 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice to just be able to find some weird internal string in Qt or whatever in less than a second < 1527167236 12263 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, here is the link: https://github.com/google/codesearch < 1527167657 57598 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1527167830 139254 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1527171257 292292 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghniwgmzsxzuusnh JOIN :#esoteric < 1527172562 10959 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1527173467 295740 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1527173524 759237 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1527173725 304931 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1527175180 125322 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the sanest way to represent a structure P where there's a shared reference to every instance of P from a global table, and so you must not move P values, you also must call the destructor before you drop a P value, but if you call the destructor that's fine because it will remove the reference from the global table. < 1527175185 450106 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1527175190 362088 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, wrong window < 1527177449 546182 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1527178558 884744 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1527178696 934053 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1527178802 62922 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1527181304 44805 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527181365 346435 :MDude!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1527181368 911146 :MDead!~MDude@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1527181511 491060 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1527184466 733241 :tswett2!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1527185591 883471 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people get angry on IRC. < 1527185743 628783 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1527186864 333635 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527186890 52151 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hehe, I have my own old grep clone too, called cgrep, but I don't use it these days because it's not actually better than gnu grep < 1527186951 204870 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: there are superior tools, but they are mostly situational. I use pcregrep occasionally for the zero width assertion support for example < 1527186975 854902 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and csearch is great for large code bases < 1527186986 91523 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hm, ag looks interesting < 1527186989 920729 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to try that out < 1527187012 960108 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing cgrep can do that some other grep tools can't is that it can tell you the function name the line appears in, but that only if the program is formatted in the classic way I use where the function name is at the very first column of the line but almost nothing else is. < 1527187076 276542 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually prefer that format, and use it even for C++, as in template void Foo:: < 1527187086 369792 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :set_bar(int bar) < 1527187086 948496 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1527187143 541653 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even use that for global variables and for functions or variables where the identifier is preceded by a start or ampersand or is in parenthesis. < 1527187315 345829 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@145.255.8.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1527187454 208507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so it does nothing for inline methods, or python or a lot of other things ;P < 1527187475 722245 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally I search from inside an editor or IDE anyway, mostly QtCreator, PyCharm or Sublime at work < 1527187674 561588 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, and I find that even for code I write where it does work, it isn't useful, because I don't want to see the function name < 1527187703 305504 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I would, when I wrote this utility, but now I find that's not actually that useful < 1527187715 122006 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: also, why on earth put the { on a separate line? It is a waste of vertical space :P < 1527187764 519587 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I put the { on a separate line only for function definitions and struct definitions, not for inner control statements or similar. < 1527187782 933075 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: inconsistent as well as a waste of space < 1527187795 664085 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've flip-flopped on that too, I'm not sure if putting it on a separate line is the best or not < 1527187811 558581 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I think it is, but I'm not sure < 1527187831 386736 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you at least write else the proper way? "} else {" all on one line < 1527187834 979403 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1527187840 309181 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if (foo) { too < 1527187843 131738 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you indent? < 1527187849 229989 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1527187856 962371 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) { < 1527187857 913162 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs or spaces? and how many? < 1527187865 331183 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this is *not* how the law works, dear spammer. "Please click on the "Cancel" button below by Friday 25 May 2018 if you want to unsubscribe from our newsletter. If you’d like to keep receiving emails from us just ignore this email" < 1527187884 923589 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've varied that (tab or space and how many), I'm not sure what's the best. < 1527187895 395789 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use tabs, but these days I think spaces are better. < 1527187897 558254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But no, I didn't "click") < 1527187902 391242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is that spammer trying to make a reference to GDPR?? < 1527187907 851686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1527187925 366973 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets complicated because indent size is something where I'm more willing to match the existing codebase, even if in some other parts of the style I don't always do that < 1527187933 316475 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I think that indent by tab, adjust by space is best. But it requires dicipline or an editor that supports it < 1527187940 42068 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well they pretend to be a newsletter, but I'm certain it's one I've never subscribed to... so it's spam. < 1527187952 431104 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Python I go full on PEP8 (4 spaces) though, since it is pretty much the standard for that language < 1527188004 985964 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: namespaces in C++, do they cause indentation in your style though? < 1527188028 324525 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't indent namespaces < 1527188040 185065 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the lack of that is perhaps the one good thing about the style at work. Which is otherwise bad: { on new line always, 3 spaces indent < 1527188090 279012 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think I have gotten about 5 GDPR mails today... < 1527188103 250380 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also sometimes unsure about what formatting style to use for longer initializer lists or longer expressions, especially where to put the parenthesis or brackets or dots < 1527188123 902390 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in what programming language? < 1527188131 148205 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: C++ < 1527188133 125744 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, namespaces < 1527188135 365438 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be C++ < 1527188152 898522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: the initializer lists are good at work too: < 1527188162 976151 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo::foo() < 1527188171 136413 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :: m_member() < 1527188177 592529 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :, m_memberAlso(123) < 1527188179 442055 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not those < 1527188198 949533 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those even called initializer lists? < 1527188211 690557 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what are they called if not that? < 1527188222 451054 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean braces to initialize an aggregate, especially an array, possibly an array of structures < 1527188227 258508 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you probably mean vector foo = {1, 2, 3} then? < 1527188228 678081 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1527188229 431108 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look that up < 1527188239 954968 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not sure I envy you, but yes that's what I meant when I said that I feel left out. < 1527188241 799362 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sort < 1527188252 471422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: err? context? < 1527188267 596198 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I got 1 GDPR mail today! < 1527188288 793146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they started dropping in about a month ago, and just more and more every week since then < 1527188299 500880 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently the constructor stuff is called initializer list too. that's confusing. < 1527188310 378102 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check what the grammar in the standard calls them < 1527188319 678723 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :while everybody else seems to be celebrating being unsubscribed from everything :P < 1527188332 849727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: at least I got a good list of all the online services I'm using and customer "clubs" and such that I'm in. < 1527188389 741511 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not a EU citizen? < 1527188395 935090 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I am < 1527188404 694561 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, weird then < 1527188423 600858 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it's a .de email address so it's blatantly obvious) < 1527188480 618246 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a few legitimate services have contacted me. like github. < 1527188490 634049 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put everything GDPR in a separate mailbox, just to be able to get a complete list of all services I use, turns out to be about 30-40 so far, eyeballing the list < 1527188504 339695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh yeah, I talked about legitimate ones here < 1527188511 281900 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't gotten any spam ones < 1527188522 657453 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even there I think I'm only up to 3 or 4 now < 1527188542 422566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/up to/at/ < 1527188551 352449 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing from Steam though < 1527188554 902600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that surprises me < 1527188619 339091 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or twitch huh < 1527188624 970975 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gog... oh gog was early, April 26th < 1527188635 429421 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they were < 1527188655 110126 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :humble bundle was quite late though < 1527188699 114390 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Swedish companies were earlier < 1527188705 107099 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spotify was quite late < 1527188711 927438 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :called ctor-initializer and mem-initializer-list (the former includes the leading colon), defined in [class.base.init] and referenced in [dcl.fct.def.general] in the C++ standard < 1527188742 394030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh well, I guess there'll be more to come in the next few weeks < 1527188745 44018 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: so doesn't really help < 1527188775 693191 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: shouldn't be, the law goes into effect tomorrow. And surely nobody missed the deadline ;P < 1527188805 688851 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gotten many GPDR-related emails yet, despite that I advertise my email addresses a lot, even to many services on the internet (my email addres is ambrus@math.bme.hu ) < 1527188852 57963 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: I use a separate email for every service and just put aliases in /etc/aliases. Thus it is easy to blacklist them if I start getting spam via dem < 1527188853 486462 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1527188862 996360 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :as happened with the mail I used for the debian bug tracker < 1527188865 763926 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it doesn't seem to me like that law differs much from the data protection laws we already had in effect. the only big difference is that it explicitly tries to bind services ran outside of Europe when they have users in Europe < 1527188889 523085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should file a bug to the debian bug tracker that they don't mask the emails properly < 1527188908 27677 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for a few services I have done that, and yes, that can be useful, I just usually don't bother < 1527188961 907359 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: masking emails in mailing list archives is hard, because the emails sometimes get quoted in message bodies, and then the archives try to mask everything that has an at sign, and break all sorts of scripts that happen to contain an at sign in it so you can't copy them from the archive < 1527188974 731500 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it is a bug tracker, not a mailing list though < 1527189005 460351 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the bug trackers, well, I want them to find the emails. it's rather random websites and stores where I don't want them to send newsletters later. < 1527189046 476855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't them spamming me, it was someone finding the unmasked email in the bug report and spamming that < 1527189076 574263 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I even have published scholarly articles with my email address on them, by design, so it's no wonder I get conference invitations and journal invitations with article titles and emails automatically harvested < 1527189116 489538 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: when I report a bug on github, or using the kernel bugzilla, my email is never made public < 1527189126 244140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: all of which is illegal under the GDPR :) < 1527189126 981711 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, why should the debian bug tracker do that < 1527189139 551661 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does GDPR cover spam? < 1527189165 543249 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I assume that the debian bug tracker may have issues with GPDR and not masking emails. Hm... < 1527189165 988370 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because, presumably, you provided the email address so that fellow academics can contact you about your paper and maybe related research, and nothing else) < 1527189207 268679 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure. it may not be effective, but it does cover spam, as it's processing your email address, which is personal information < 1527189263 168946 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have my email address on my homepage, although there it's deliberately obfuscated. < 1527189270 709274 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tomorrow I'll file a bug with the debian bug tracker about how they treat the emails then < 1527189355 650701 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, their search function is terrible. Doesn't allow you to do a global free text search, you have to specify a package it seems < 1527189402 20367 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are general web search engines like google search for a global search, they even let you restrict to a website under an url-directory < 1527189435 976161 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know, but they lag behind < 1527189448 811721 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to know if there were any bugs filed mentioning GDPR < 1527189670 639265 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe. Now I'm reminded to my bug report where gnu had a corrupted copy of the FSF on the glibc website. https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21383 < 1527189680 149553 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fixed since) < 1527189692 295425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1527189751 943598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least bugzilla has a proper search function < 1527189775 544173 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think... < 1527189870 903002 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bug tracker for nethack4 at https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/ is messed up so the search doesn't work properly, probably because importing the bugs from the previous bug tracker (a Trac wiki) was done incorrectly < 1527189877 976155 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can find surprises there too < 1527189918 731976 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bug ticket for that filed by the way, although it's hard to find < 1527190014 671429 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://roguelikes.live/nh4-bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=955 < 1527190100 579447 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :This server could not prove that it is roguelikes.live; its security certificate expired 77 days ago. < 1527190102 66496 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1527190107 851355 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a professionally run site < 1527190120 185696 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1527190129 403726 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a bug ticket about that too, I dunno < 1527190153 782192 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly not professional, nobody involved gets payed for it, and everyone has little time and doing it as a hobby only < 1527190156 55091 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is using lets encrypt < 1527190160 973821 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they screwed up the cron job < 1527190177 834035 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still a bit better than when the whole bug tracker was unaccessible for a while < 1527190210 901843 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: which is why I don't see the point in not going for github, gitlab or bitbucket < 1527190229 62435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :all three services work way better than that < 1527190233 182335 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those sites suck and keep changing and hard to migrate away from them < 1527190243 183672 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the bug tracker is hard to migrate away < 1527190248 41733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? hm < 1527190258 172120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you export it < 1527190264 492501 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug tracker that is < 1527190273 51816 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code in the repo and its version history is usually easy to migrate away < 1527190276 686584 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bug tracker is difficult < 1527190306 992804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you export it < 1527190323 877543 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you host something on a big externally ran site, you're at their mercy, you can't do much if they decide to ban you, because it's not worth for them to spend time with problematic customers, they're satisfied with the other 95% of people who are using the site without a problem < 1527190356 320433 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't predict if you'll still be able to use the same site conveniently five or ten years ago < 1527190361 889095 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ago/later/ < 1527190377 59095 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, GDPR data portability won't help, since it isn't private personal data < 1527190425 663739 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data portability requirements will be interesting. Will your private playlists on spotify count for example? < 1527190438 363213 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn NICK :Guest6061 < 1527190440 194471 :ocharles!sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles NICK :Guest27988 < 1527190441 366851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a NICK :Guest77757 < 1527190444 161960 :lynn!sid154965@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fcebzexizwvaivdw NICK :Guest13947 < 1527190444 635517 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the? < 1527190445 716585 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 NICK :Guest88143 < 1527190446 507708 :Gregor!dlopen@71.19.155.102 NICK :Guest49568 < 1527190446 740896 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :Guest78368 < 1527190447 513344 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold NICK :Guest87858 < 1527190448 571876 :GeekDude!~G33kDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :Guest33130 < 1527190465 520593 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is going on < 1527190521 281483 :Guest6061!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn NICK :ATMunn < 1527190541 667920 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TOPIC #freenode < 1527190557 94122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1527190558 379357 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably Nickserv is confused and renaming users that he thinks aren't logged on and have nick enforcement < 1527190571 930951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1527190584 390943 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm lagging due to all the renames, heh < 1527190596 289106 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might rename me next then < 1527190678 448040 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1527190754 896624 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527190890 875903 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC really is idiosyncratic with it's nick handling, compared to every modern service < 1527190927 374434 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IRC is old and cares a lot about historical compatibility < 1527190932 594330 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1527190946 638820 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was an admin on a small network for a while, I know how it works < 1527190973 618412 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was never admin, but wrote clients and asked questions from the freenode buys and that's why I know a lot of details < 1527190977 35445 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/buys/guys/ < 1527190986 296061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I wrote a bot too < 1527190987 829781 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1527190992 404943 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :because why not < 1527191006 362711 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote multiple, and probably will write more in the future. Not in bash though. < 1527191009 999545 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had IPv6 support as well as loadable modules < 1527191011 596216 :ATMunn!ATMunn@unaffiliated/atmunn PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc bots are fun < 1527191028 560492 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: https://github.com/envbot/envbot < 1527191073 960510 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about writing a server, but meh < 1527191075 86887 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also looking forward to the future not-quite-irc protocol that would allow non-tree configuration of servers, with loops. Will be useful if we expand to multiple planets far from earth or the like. < 1527191082 193475 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang (or elixir these days) < 1527191108 237894 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing a server is harder. That's deliberate, IRC is designed to make writing clients easy. Servers have to put up with a lot of stuff that's optional or non-existent for clients. < 1527191110 212256 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone working on that protocol? and what is it called? < 1527191120 431803 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know < 1527191135 784784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway a mesh network would be fun < 1527191150 172413 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people are at least working on what we can replace TCP with when we expand to faraway planets, which is a harder problem < 1527191180 275529 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mind you, tree configuration still works if we have people on earth-moon and mars but nowhere else, you only need loops for the third planet < 1527191187 780758 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you already need a tcp-replacement for mars < 1527191268 125146 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a replacement for how the web works too, with all these heavily server-client interactive websites < 1527191370 245257 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, we already have some of that, with these crazy web apps that run everything locally in your browser, including when you're offline < 1527191393 913470 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, a lot of local caching. something like wikipedia would be hard though. Who would do the 3-way merges? < 1527191431 593793 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we invent FTL communication < 1527191543 166927 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: also if github shuts down I think they will work out a way to handle it first. Google code and Microsoft codeplex shutdown somewhat gracefully, allowing easy migration to github. Though github has that as it's only business, unlike google and MS, so who knows < 1527192157 393349 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there' s a lot of hard design problems in getting services usable with 30 minutes of latency, even if you designed them from the scratch, especially if you care about values like privacy and distributed systems like hackers on the internet usually do < 1527192177 549531 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gets even worse if the bandwidth across planets isn't infinite, which is pretty likely < 1527192219 854526 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: it is more than 30 minutes usually < 1527192249 405038 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it like a couple of hours to Mars when it is furthest away < 1527192331 695942 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no. it's at most 23 minutes from Earth to Mars, double that for a round trip < 1527192353 430215 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some practical tasks you will need two or more round trips < 1527192368 693690 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1527192375 702489 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it gets worse if you want places farther than Mars < 1527192410 911949 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about when it is occluded by the sun and you need to bounce it via some satellite < 1527192424 165396 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it won't be shortest path < 1527192431 210528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you include that in the calculation? < 1527193210 626061 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, I haven't included that < 1527193214 807923 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that shouldn't add too much time < 1527193279 295626 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen https://gdprhallofshame.com/ ? < 1527193310 619586 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should re-read Heinlein's ''Time enough for love'' novel. IIRC it starts by a viewpoint character saying that he's a historian studying modern (at the time) history, but even for a prof'nal like him it's impossible to tell much about all of humanity, because < 1527193356 577773 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are colonizing the galaxy with close to the speed of light, so by the time he gets news from the pioneers farthest to him, they're no longer the farthest ones and the news is obsolete, but this has only been going on for like 20000 years so the colonization definitely hasn't reached any sort of stable state yet. < 1527193412 870976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 463 < 1527193413 590496 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 463: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1527193579 324980 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no, but that is amazing < 1527193766 366450 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, later in the book FTL travel is invented, and the most powerful kind too, the one that lets them freely travel back to the past to before FTL travel was invented. < 1527193900 224015 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, even on earth we sometimes have to deal with a second or two of latency when data goes through satellites. < 1527194043 656530 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fun example was around 2000, when we watched sportsball matches on the Sydney olympics, and if you listened on the radio, you'd know the goals a second or two before they were shown on television. < 1527194120 100851 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1527194497 64851 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be worse today than back then... as videos get streamed and reencoded, which requires a buffer for each stage... < 1527195000 798076 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1527195007 643 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just opened the plastic wrapping of a pack of bulgur wheat wrong, and spilt what looks like 50 g of grains everywhere. Some stayed on the kitchen counter, some went on the floor, some on the stove. I think there must be a few grains even under the dishwasher, where they will stay for years. < 1527195021 744678 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes. < 1527195102 950883 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but back then we had the expectation that radio and TV are instantous. I even synced my clocks to the time announcement beeps in the radio, and could expect sub-second precision since all of it was generated and broadcast within Hungary. < 1527195136 843438 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The radio no longer broadcasts time beeps like that, and even the telephone company has discontinued the telephone voice clock service. < 1527195163 156590 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead we have to sync time to the internet or GPS signals now. < 1527195183 419728 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can still have my computer sync to an internet time service within Hungary. < 1527195278 571126 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1527195287 120917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a radio-synced alarm clock back in Finland, and at least a year or two ago it was still operational. < 1527195349 772649 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527195352 243327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The transmitter in Germany has an official range of 2,000 km. This means that the UK and Ireland should be well within range." < 1527195371 465029 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was from the manual of a different model, but I'm guessing it was the same sort of thing.) < 1527195458 773444 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, those work too < 1527195478 258763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :~1260 km from Braunschweig to Helsinki, so it would've been in range too. < 1527195482 406786 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful if you want to run for a long time off a small battery, because receiving GPS can take somewhat more power < 1527195619 406712 :Hoolootwo!Hooloovoo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1527195763 320826 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu JOIN :#esoteric < 1527195849 823768 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527195982 892789 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1527196360 626683 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1527196380 672707 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1527196405 934376 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulgur is somewhat of a new addition to shops here. ten years ago I think I hadn't even heard of it. < 1527196470 619569 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's made of wheat only with nothing else, like no-eggs pasta is, but isn't ground to flour first, so it's full of protein and dietary-fibers, but processed in some way that you can cook it in water quickly and serve as is as a side dish, like pasta or rice. < 1527196483 688006 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a useful addition really < 1527196505 202523 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why we hadn't had it before, it's not like you need exotic conditions to make it < 1527196510 580325 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just some culture difference < 1527196524 109179 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is probably grown and produced locally now < 1527196556 750449 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it lasts for at least six months without cooling like rice or pasta does < 1527196557 579590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulgur is tg < 1527196573 833627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the confusing part is that the hebrew name is "burgul" < 1527196772 209606 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cooking tested successful. now I'll have to pack the fish and bulgur in a box for lunch tomorrow, plus pack a lemon because that's best applied freshly, and a towel because tomorrow is towel day < 1527196859 278873 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's catfish, I think) < 1527196879 204067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you saying that? < 1527197213 854976 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason really < 1527197271 895900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fungot in everyone of us, waiting to get out < 1527197272 275237 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ( ( wow)) don't think that's such a tough thing so if you didn't do that my my dad he travels um he works for a little while they're in the dishwasher < 1527197284 105164 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/everyone/every one/ < 1527197469 756892 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's more like I'm just talking to mysefl < 1527197476 920640 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have anyone else around to talk to < 1527197507 786549 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`' < 1527197508 473348 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :89) Hooray! I'm an idiot. < 1527197516 126728 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is a friendly irc channel where I can say random stuff < 1527197590 256614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5d0 < 1527197590 457531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected 'd': expecting digit, operator or end of input < 1527197623 135859 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an awful error message < 1527197629 846017 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5d1 < 1527197629 939518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 5 < 1527197632 286494 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5d2 < 1527197632 376222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 9 < 1527197634 614264 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1527197636 463207 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5d-2 < 1527197636 607252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected 'd': expecting digit, operator or end of input < 1527197643 40325 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5d13 < 1527197643 155555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 49 < 1527197653 84624 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/?5#13 < 1527197653 846003 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 32 < 1527197656 702830 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't match < 1527197680 897478 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ +/?5000#92 < 1527197681 709943 :j-bot!eldis4@firefly.nu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 229189 < 1527197687 55632 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 5000d92 < 1527197687 188550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: 230817 < 1527197772 847328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cheats :) < 1527197780 273344 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1000000000d2 < 1527197780 390823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: 1499987354 < 1527197814 654029 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1527197835 176516 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afair it samples a normal distribution with the right expected value and variance) < 1527197895 93538 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a cut-off for that... perhaps 20. (So for 20d6 it samples a d6 20 times, but above that, it'll approximate) < 1527197973 622682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a scam < 1527197979 981752 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think for a small second argument, you can sample the distribution exactly, just like you can do so for a small first argument < 1527197988 698327 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if both are large you may need an approximation < 1527197991 265457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted physics simulations of rolling dice < 1527198027 875129 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's expensive. it's cheaper to outsource it to real people in the far east rolling dice for cheap < 1527198240 259992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's tricky. My current keyboard no longer works in the GRUB menu at boot time, only after booting. So I can't select the thing I'd want to boot. :/ < 1527198277 169412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was (for whatever reason) because the keyboard was connected to the monitor's built-in USB hub, but looks like it doesn't work even if plugged in directly to one of the ports. < 1527198307 543316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have to replace a keyboard semi-recently, so maybe it's just something with this particular keyboard. But that's... scow. < 1527198337 69989 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it a wired or a wireless keyboard? native USB or converted? how old is the motherboard? < 1527198360 312284 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and does it help if you physically unplug and replug the keyboard at the grub boot prompt? < 1527198384 760034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wired, native USB, some amount of years, maybe four. The previous (USB) keyboard worked fine. < 1527198396 69491 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1527198401 50614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to bump up the timeout in order to be able to test that. < 1527198406 624729 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1527198430 567800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also maybe it could start working after some seconds of warming up anyway. Seems a little odd.) < 1527198471 26666 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that doesn't work, then you might need some workaround, such as a different keyboard for booting, or controlling grub from a remote machine through serial terminal, or by inserting a floppy or pendrive, or booting from a floppy or pendrive. < 1527198524 731004 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even a CD. < 1527198551 280757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit lacking in serial ports these days. The old keyboard is probably still somewhere, though. < 1527198588 967447 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long ago I did have a system where I booted windows 95 from a floppy, but DOS and linux from the hard disk, on the same machine, but that wasn't because the keyboard didn't work, and indeed I could chose between windows and linux using the keyboard. < 1527198717 922524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No luck with replugging. Tried a couple of different ports on the motherboard as well. < 1527198730 939804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also tried disconnecting other USB devices. < 1527198736 319223 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1527198757 182876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe I should try booting with no other USB devices connected in the first place, in case it got permanently confused. < 1527198794 759468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Another machine here hangs permanently at boot time if an external USB hard disk enclosure is connected.) < 1527198827 915374 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also long ago, I had a keyboard that didn't work after hard power cycling the machine (just using the power button to shut down didn't trigger that, you'd have to remove the power from the motherboard) until I pulled the keyboard plug and replugged it. This was probably because it was a keyboard with an AT plug and an AT to PS/2 converter, and they < 1527198827 991017 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric : didn't test the motherboard for that. < 1527198867 580100 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AT plug was sort of old technology back then. < 1527198884 934310 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But old keyboards can be very good quality and last for a long time, so it's a real use. < 1527198887 332651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, that actually worked. < 1527198898 478914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I boot it with the monitor's USB cable disconnected, the keyboard works. < 1527198925 149508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to remember to do that every time I need to do something in the boot prompt. < 1527198971 345482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hypothesis: boot-time USB HID device enumeration gets confused by the hub and gives up.) < 1527198994 28030 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1527198995 63617 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1527199033 592298 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case it might be worth to try to plug the USB devices to different ports < 1527199043 229714 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you get a configuration that works without having to replug anything < 1527199068 472409 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the monitor USB cable for an USB hub in the monitor? for a camera built into it?\ < 1527199470 848936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an USB hub. It doesn't have any other USB features. < 1527199496 267953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I had a phone plugged in said USB hub, it's always possible that might've confused it too. < 1527199510 31399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And a mouse, and one more hub.) < 1527199515 505479 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, do any monitors have a microphone in them? I know some have built-in speakers and a camera. < 1527199517 349084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and a DAC. < 1527199616 656929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All-in-one PCs do, but those probably don't count as "monitors" really. < 1527199640 592524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect at least some of the camera-equipped monitors would have a microphone as well. < 1527199646 948240 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, some notebooks definitely have a microphone built in < 1527199727 912550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Dell P2418HZ "Monitor for Video Conferencing" says it has a microphone. < 1527199735 675831 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1527199749 516737 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want a microphone in your monitor though < 1527199769 337781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: To "make business personal". < 1527199782 828518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1527199787 213077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to "collaborate in stunning clarity". < 1527199811 355850 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more of a puzzler than an explanation... are you quoting a buzzing brochure? < 1527199812 162782 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if use the a camera in it, that means it's already connected to the computer with a cable that can transmit video data, so presumably it can transmit audio data on the same cable too, and the camera is already close to whatever it's watching, so the microphone will be too < 1527199833 313578 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Microsoft® Skype® for Business certified. < 1527199842 393066 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so sort of like why some not very tiny stand-alone video cameras have a microphone built in < 1527199859 629666 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including both webcameras and standalone cameras < 1527199873 833897 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today we used my laptop for audio because the meeting room's speaker was uncooperative. < 1527199880 458629 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the smaller cameras don't, to save space and possibly money < 1527199889 932064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The video side worked fine.) < 1527199908 576049 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I used a notebook built-in microphone for skype call yesterday (but an external earplug speaker) < 1527200937 920036 :Guest6451!~Slereah@ALille-651-1-44-78.w2-5.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah > 1527200969 583099 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03The Piper 5* 10New user account < 1527201200 40303 :wob_jonas!b03f1919@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.25.25 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1527201948 219136 :boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.236.157.electronicbox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527202098 931272 :atslash!~atslash@static.231.107.9.5.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1527202609 985653 :Guest77757!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1527203029 996937 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghniwgmzsxzuusnh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1527205798 66703 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1527206108 935525 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1527206234 811197 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds