< 1528675828 326726 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528676482 33864 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1528678360 211811 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1528678777 979812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1528681269 487687 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1528681637 212581 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1528682625 880141 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-13-153.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made several hacks with ifMUD, such as a way for a JotaCode program to read your own current channel. This cannot be used on other users, nor can it be used if you use the "nounzone" option. If you are logged in at the time, then it also resets your idle time, displays error messages on your terminal, and cancels paste mode if you have it set. However, does work. < 1528683139 986756 :olsner!~salparot@c83-253-165-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1528683813 380789 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1528684053 351337 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18b98dd9.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1528686007 88280 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Quit: I seem to have stopped. < 1528686104 133820 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528690469 433938 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1528694514 54149 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528694637 211153 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1528695492 226358 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I wonder if there's a way of translating a prolog-like rewriting rule into a set of rules for Thue that doesn't involve you contorting yourself. < 1528695513 934439 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of doing just ::= , you can do , , , ..., ::= < 1528695564 636024 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning "if these ALL patterns match, rewrite them all to the rhs." < 1528695663 870474 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise, skip the rule. < 1528695670 343359 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need some kind of flag system I think. < 1528695918 189749 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wonder what the "primitive machines" are for languages like Thue. I know you can build up larger machines from smaller machines in other automata, but composition in Thue seems like a tough nut to crack. < 1528696263 345501 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528696294 402430 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm no longer sure about anything I said yesterday. maybe a three-tape turing machine can actually simulate a d-tape turing machine with just polylog factor slowdown. < 1528696521 298950 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" what I'm looking to do is stupid but I'm exploring translating traditional game models (like roguelikes, text adventures, anything that involves some abstract interaction between entities that may contain arbitrary codes) to different models of computation" => hmm, wasn't there an IOCCC entry that did that sort of thing on cellular < 1528696521 399474 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric : automata with a global input? < 1528696588 748562 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" creating a new paradigm for games programming" => is that for automatic saving the state and replay? < 1528696806 15669 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :wob_jonas: a CA with global input would be funny to see. got a link? < 1528696828 667448 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :puts "injecting input" in a whole new light. < 1528696930 765153 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imode: I think it's http://www.ioccc.org/years-spoiler.html#1993_rince < 1528697203 871241 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. I recognize that. < 1528697227 971245 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :there have been several kinds of languages like that, but they all conform to a 2D grid. < 1528698585 169259 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpywywjpwakhylkk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1528698729 967046 :imode1!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1528698958 25961 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528699703 135058 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1528699746 365595 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528699746 408611 :wob_jonas!b03f181f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.31 QUIT :Client Quit < 1528699823 863931 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpytfoqoqcxjmbdu JOIN :#esoteric < 1528701675 24695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist 467 < 1528701675 702815 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist 467: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale < 1528704046 407897 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528704068 37192 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1528705229 27062 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1528705387 341238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a JOIN :#esoteric < 1528705387 424606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@2a02:c7d:485a:3300:fb8b:fb15:c1d3:a33a QUIT :Changing host < 1528705387 424666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric > 1528705644 689407 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55609&oldid=55606 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (+36) 10I think I misinterpreted that instruction while checking the divide. > 1528707942 787202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Surtic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55610&oldid=55609 5* 03Plokmijnuhby 5* (-12) 10Improved 99 bottles < 1528709162 47481 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528709569 615669 :doesthiswork!~Adium@207.55.82.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528710029 247192 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:5186:41b2:31bf:cfa0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528710786 327175 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.183.142.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN :#esoteric > 1528710995 765906 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Cevat 5* 10New user account < 1528713591 672977 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpytfoqoqcxjmbdu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1528713779 44299 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1528714469 365547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528714775 768496 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... > 1528715453 895704 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55611&oldid=55579 5* 03Cevat 5* (+364) 10/* Introductions */ > 1528716671 67967 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07LOLZ14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55612 5* 03Cevat 5* (+707) 10Created page with "LOLZ is a language that ignores everything except the letters 'l', 'o,' and 'z'. Its main goal is to let users to write any program in one line. Also LOLZ is an error-free lan..." > 1528716974 767622 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55613&oldid=55513 5* 03Cevat 5* (+11) 10Added LOLZ < 1528718938 171760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1528719010 621659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528720834 691209 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D39A.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1528721054 817136 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1528724077 661586 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86D39A.versanet.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1528724105 211073 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C029.versanet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1528724269 820820 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C029.versanet.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi again < 1528724322 468890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1528726974 265108 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo < 1528728807 665100 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528728879 271655 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1528728905 695534 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1528729944 336923 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1528730317 548608 :xkapastel!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plpjmwwijvqgtzxj JOIN :#esoteric < 1528731731 473688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1528732396 382072 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1528733093 711465 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1528733253 246393 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-145-132-215.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1528734153 317368 :wob_jonas!25bf3cd1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.37.191.60.209 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1528734163 19607 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1528734449 89947 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@ptr-82l26zezm7he96qp8n6.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1528735088 909986 :plokmijnuhby!4e93f69c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.147.246.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528735945 687420 :plokmijnuhby!4e93f69c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.147.246.156 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1528736150 230209 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode JOIN :#esoteric < 1528736445 303226 :Suika!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528736555 639866 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1528737037 275476 :Naergon!~Naergon@unaffiliated/naergon QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1528737928 267385 :Suika!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Quit: Ouch! Got SIGIRL, dying... < 1528737946 51661 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528741864 280306 :Suika!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1528741930 144636 :erkin!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1528743224 336760 :zseri!~zseri@i5E86C029.versanet.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1528743863 19422 :Suika!~erkin@unaffiliated/erkin NICK :erkin < 1528744123 209390 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1528744286 23277 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528744380 509766 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have a language like postscript or forth that has both a call stack and a data stack. If the environment provides some sort of calls to do IO (whether a general OS interface or access to the application this is embedded in as a scripting language), < 1528744455 358010 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's possible to define the IO library such that IO calls require that the data stack is empty (i.e. contain only what the environment put into it when your code is started), or the call stack is empty (contains only whatever returns the environment put in it at the start, in this case the IO call needs to call back a continuation function of < 1528744455 502637 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user code), or even that both are empty. < 1528744470 575031 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be easy to very inconvenient depending on the details of the language. < 1528744533 445465 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could sort of say that TeX requires the data stack to be empty for IO stuff and even for variable assignments, but we don't really consider it a data stack. < 1528744586 591267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1528744826 484247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1528744872 946949 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course requiring both the data stack and call stack to be empty could only work in a language where you can store data somewhere else in some global state, unless perhaps the IO call required that you put a fixed number of objects to the data stack, such as just one continuation function, which I think could in theory work in Underload. < 1528745085 222489 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in a language like underload that only stores data on the two stacks, it would be natural to have some such restriction. < 1528745948 176789 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1528745948 920901 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :698) Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up. < 1528747898 470602 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you'd do tree manipulation in Thue... < 1528749815 450455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can have a token jump over balanced parentheses... for example: S( -> (xR, R( -> (RR, x( -> (x, RR) -> )R, xR) -> )T, where x and R are auxiliary symbols, will transition from S([balanced parentheses]) to ([balanced parentheses])T (I'm writing -> where Thue uses ::=) < 1528749835 730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I'm missing x) -> )x < 1528749871 835719 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured. you can also take an alternate approach and do something like huffman encoding. < 1528749891 770286 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :where your tree is a series of left/right paths delimited by brackets, like [00101010][0100101001]... < 1528749957 281623 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously Thue can simulate a Turing machine... but this is actually a bit simpler in Thue than in a Turing machine, I'd say. < 1528750006 313655 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1528750076 1109 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :the path-based representation would be beneficial, because then you have some context: you can specify a pattern that starts at the start of a particular path, or at the end, or at any point in between. < 1528751253 660308 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always sort of annoyed by questions like "how do I represent a tree" or "how do I represent a graph", because it really depends on what kinds of operations you want to do on the tree or graph, and it's not possible to give a meaningful answer without. < 1528751709 757055 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. and you also have to consider your storage requirements. < 1528751842 153043 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "How do I represent a..." -- "I'm sure there's an Unicode symbol for that." ) < 1528751908 223231 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmfao. "With a suitably concise alphabet..." < 1528751944 769466 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode PRIVMSG #esoteric :graph rewriting in thue would be a little troubling. the two choices of graph representation are complex. < 1528752718 80244 :wob_jonas!b03f184d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.63.24.77 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1528753363 481862 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:5186:41b2:31bf:cfa0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1528753391 31228 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:5186:41b2:31bf:cfa0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1528753666 44328 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:5186:41b2:31bf:cfa0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1528754050 172493 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:a927:d369:645a:b7ce JOIN :#esoteric < 1528754402 168795 :LKoen!~LKoen@2a01:e35:2eed:a430:a927:d369:645a:b7ce QUIT :Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.” < 1528756187 347536 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@77.79.183.142.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds > 1528757304 712426 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55614 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+23) 10Created page with "{{Distinguish/{{{1}}}}}" > 1528757334 323195 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/Confusion14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55615 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+38) 10Created page with "''Not to be confused with [[{{1}}]].''" > 1528757342 317955 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/Confusion14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55616&oldid=55615 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+2) 10 > 1528757354 248057 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55617&oldid=55614 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+8) 10 > 1528757386 792194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/For the14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55618 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+29) 10Created page with "''For {{{1}}}, see {{{2}}}''." > 1528757396 722258 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/For the14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55619&oldid=55618 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+4) 10 > 1528757404 814002 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/For the14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55620&oldid=55619 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+7) 10 > 1528757565 18505 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55621&oldid=55617 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+8) 10 > 1528757583 971586 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Template:Distinguish/For the14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55622&oldid=55620 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (-7) 10 > 1528757680 640433 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Numberwang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55623&oldid=53776 5* 03Kaa-kun 5* (+6) 10 > 1528757793 28139 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14[[07Talk:OneFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55624&oldid=50260 5* 03Galaxtone 5* (+188) 10/* Missing Specification Information */ new section < 1528759655 22431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1528760012 242371 :imode!~imode@unaffiliated/imode QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds