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00:39:45 <shachaf> Cale: Did I already ask you about monoidal categories with nontrivial scalars?
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03:29:15 <esowiki> [[Annoying Alice 2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55650&oldid=55646 * Reddy Alice * (+614)
03:29:47 <esowiki> [[Annoying Alice 2D]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55651&oldid=55650 * Reddy Alice * (+35)
03:49:51 <imode> is there a proof that all thue rules can be reduced to rules with only 3 symbols on either side of the separator?
03:50:17 <imode> or even, just two symbols?
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04:13:34 <imode> I think you could do with just two symbols and use a tape head approach. i.e left and right moves would be formulated as OT -> TN and TO -> NT respectively.
04:14:03 <imode> where 'O' is the old symbol under the tape head, and 'N' is the newly written symbol.
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05:31:31 <\oren\> Is it a potential military threat that our prime minister has the power to make America's president go completely pineapples at will by saying something as innocuous as "we will not be pushed around"?
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08:19:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iamcalledbob * New user account
08:22:25 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55652&oldid=55634 * Iamcalledbob * (+19)
08:22:40 <esowiki> [[=]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55653 * Iamcalledbob * (+418) Created page with "= commands: = if the thing being assigned is a place: assign place with value(dec)/place value. if the thing being assigned is a value: if the place value assigned r..."
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08:27:08 <wob_jonas> I destroyed my mobile phone. But I only have myself to blame for it. Now I have to survive with this bad spare phone I bought as a backup in december, plus look around for what phone I should buy, and I guess a protective foil for the display of this one.
08:28:18 <wob_jonas> Darn, what's the name of this one, I need it to look up protective foil.
08:30:12 <wob_jonas> Ok, so first I have to copy my contact list to this phone.
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08:39:45 <esowiki> [[PUBERTY]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55654&oldid=55633 * Izumariu * (+6)
09:16:05 <esowiki> [[Losescript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55655 * Iamcalledbob * (+7665) Created page with "==Losescript== Losescript is a programming language that certainly makes you win in some golf contests(while if the questions change even if a bit, you will certainly lose). =..."
09:17:29 <ais523> there is a lot of copy-and-paste on that page
09:17:51 <ais523> but I think it's all from Esolang itself, thus not a copyvio
09:18:02 <ais523> that said, it's been copied from the rendered version
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09:37:18 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Derteckel * New user account
09:41:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55656&oldid=55652 * Derteckel * (+159) /* Introductions */
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11:46:24 <esowiki> [[`]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55657 * Iamcalledbob * (+1138) All about `
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12:31:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[Language list]] to [[Category:`]]: I want people to see that there is another 1-instruction turing-taprit language.
12:31:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[Talk:Language list]] to [[Category talk:`]]: I want people to see that there is another 1-instruction turing-taprit language.
12:33:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[Main Page]] to [[%]]
12:33:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[Talk:Main Page]] to [[Talk:%]]
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12:46:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[%]] to [[Bob's blog]]
12:46:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Iamcalledbob * moved [[Talk:%]] to [[Talk:Bob's blog]]
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12:56:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[Bob's blog]] to [[Main Page]]
12:56:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Main Page]]": Deleted to make way for move from "[[Bob's blog]]"
12:57:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Main Page [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": high-risk pages need move-protection as regular users can't undo moves
12:57:47 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ais523 * moved [[Talk:Bob's blog]] to [[Talk:Main Page]]
12:57:47 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Talk:Main Page]]": Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Bob's blog]]"
12:58:11 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Talk:Main Page [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": high-risk pages need move-protection as regular users can't undo moves
12:58:48 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ais523 * moved [[Category:`]] to [[Language list]] over redirect
12:58:48 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Ais523 * moved [[Category talk:`]] to [[Talk:Language list]] over redirect
12:58:48 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ais523 * Ais523 deleted redirect [[Language list]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Category:`]]"
12:58:48 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * Ais523 * Ais523 deleted redirect [[Talk:Language list]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Category talk:`]]"
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12:59:11 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Language list [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": high-risk pages need move-protection as regular users can't undo moves
12:59:38 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Ais523 * protected "[[Talk:Language list [move=sysop] (indefinite)]]": high-risk pages need move-protection as regular users can't undo moves
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13:01:15 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[%]]": Vandalism
13:01:24 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Talk:%]]": Vandalism
13:04:52 <ais523> any Esolang admins out there? I'm in the middle of an upgrade and someone starts doing pagemove vandalism :-(
13:05:17 <ais523> I'm trying to send iamcalledbob a warning but because I'm in the middle of a release upgrade, programs are randomly stopping working, and that apparently includes my browser
13:05:20 <ais523> so I haven't been able to send one yet
13:07:11 <esowiki> [[User talk:Iamcalledbob]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55678 * Ais523 * (+547) warning: pagemove vandalism
13:07:43 <ais523> this is worth /one/ warning, but attempting that sort of vandalism in the future deserves a block, as it requires an admin to undo
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13:12:56 <esowiki> [[User talk:Iamcalledbob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55679&oldid=55678 * Iamcalledbob * (+144) /* Please be careful with high-visibility pages */
13:14:31 <esowiki> [[User talk:Iamcalledbob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55680&oldid=55679 * Iamcalledbob * (+17) /* Please be careful with high-visibility pages */
13:15:28 <esowiki> [[User talk:Iamcalledbob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55681&oldid=55680 * Ais523 * (+484) how to edit pages
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13:27:14 <esowiki> [[`]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55682&oldid=55657 * B jonas * (+23)
13:28:01 <wob_jonas> yeah... those wiki edits were strange
13:28:09 <ais523> wob_jonas: I decided to work on that M:tG thing again
13:28:18 <ais523> I'm planning to write a whole site about it and have written two of the pages already
13:28:40 <wob_jonas> in that case I'll have to read and comment on it
13:28:41 <ais523> specifically, a) an explanation of the deck used from the tournament point of view, b) the series of actions needed to get into the right gamestate
13:28:44 <ais523> although I'm going to change b) a bit
13:28:49 <wob_jonas> you could put it on the esolang wiki though
13:28:55 <wob_jonas> I think that wiki is suitable for this sort of thing
13:28:59 <ais523> this is probably best as an independent mini-site
13:36:28 <ais523> wob_jonas: nethack4.org/pastebin/b31dfab1-de3c-4c61-8402-07738b794487-maindeck.html.txt nethack4.org/pastebin/b31dfab1-de3c-4c61-8402-07738b794487-setup.html.txt (these are temporary links that won't stay up that long, and these are not the final versions of the files)
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13:37:59 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55683&oldid=55676 * Iamcalledbob * (+8)
13:38:50 <esowiki> [[User talk:Iamcalledbob]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55684&oldid=55681 * Iamcalledbob * (+24)
13:40:03 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55685&oldid=55683 * Iamcalledbob * (+17)
13:41:46 * ais523 vaguely wonders how an attempt to add a language to the language list could end up with accidentally renaming the Main Page
13:41:55 <ais523> I guess if it doesn't happen again, though, we're OK
13:42:09 <ais523> (and I put move-protection on the pages in question because there's basically no good reason to rename them)
13:43:13 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55686&oldid=55632 * Iamcalledbob * (+77)
13:50:22 <oerjan> . o O ( and we all know elliott would have banned em already )
13:50:48 <oerjan> well, those old enough to remember when elliott was here
13:51:00 <ais523> yes, I prefer to give at least one warning first
13:51:20 <ais523> still, not many people know that moving a page twice requires admin cleanup if the first move was in error
13:51:30 <ais523> and most of the people who do are trolls or otherwise trying to cause trouble
13:51:37 <ais523> so doing that on the Main Page, of all places, is a very suspicious thing to do
13:52:11 <ais523> I guess we'll see how the user turns out
14:02:17 <esowiki> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55687&oldid=51404 * Iamcalledbob * (+459) /* Iamcalledbob's attempt */
14:03:49 <ais523> that is one of the bigger AEaaAP failures I've seen
14:04:25 <ais523> e.g. merging [ and ] makes BF sub-TC as you can't do any control flow inside a loop
14:05:21 <ais523> and memory-mapping which of the various instructions you have is pretty much unusable as you can't use those instructions to get back to the memory-map location
14:05:27 <ais523> that latter thing is an interesting idea for an esolang, though
14:05:35 <Taneb> AEaaAP is not an acronym I can expand
14:05:46 <esowiki> [[BF instruction minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55688&oldid=55687 * Iamcalledbob * (-40) /* Iamcalledbob's attempt */
14:06:10 <ais523> Taneb: arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point
14:08:29 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55689&oldid=55631 * Iamcalledbob * (+132)
14:08:31 <ais523> `learn AEaaAP stands for "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point". It's one of the traditional requirements for Turing-completeness
14:08:34 <HackEso> Learned 'aeaaap': AEaaAP stands for "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point". It's one of the traditional requirements for Turing-completeness
14:09:03 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55690&oldid=55689 * Iamcalledbob * (+23) /* ` */
14:10:14 <oerjan> ais523: it's rather confusing that Recent Changes displays the Delete above the Move when doing it like that.
14:10:23 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55691&oldid=55690 * Iamcalledbob * (+22) /* LOLCODE */
14:10:35 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55692&oldid=55691 * Iamcalledbob * (+1) /* Losescript */
14:11:06 <ais523> oerjan: yes, the newest delete was newer than the newest move
14:11:13 <ais523> it can be less confusing to turn enhanced recent changes off
14:11:22 <HackEso> aeaaap//AEaaAP stands for "arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point". It's one of the traditional requirements for Turing-completeness.
14:12:11 <oerjan> ais523: um, i don't have enhanced recent changes.
14:12:22 <ais523> oerjan: I think it's the default nowadays?
14:12:28 <ais523> let me try without to compare
14:12:36 <oerjan> i'm saying it looks like you moved the page before deleting it.
14:13:10 <ais523> it's called "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist" nowadays; if I turn that off, the delete correctly shows as happening before the move
14:14:55 <ais523> I was confusing the delete and the protect
14:15:22 <Taneb> It's been ages since I've made any esolangs
14:21:34 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if I can argue that the I/D machine is a BF instruction minimalization?
14:21:39 <ais523> I is just +, after all
14:21:50 <ais523> and D doesn't look too out of place in a BF derivative
14:22:00 <ais523> there's probably one that has it already :-P
14:23:02 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe all programming languages are actually BF derivatives )
14:23:26 <ais523> BF is not a BF derivative :-P
14:23:55 <Taneb> P'' probably isn't either, but that may not be a programming language
14:24:12 <oerjan> i hear Gödel investigated closed time loops so don't be too sure.
14:24:59 <ais523> historically the I/D machine was a RAM0 derivative
14:25:12 <ais523> I'm glad I was going around reading Wikipedia pages about obscure computational models :-)
14:25:34 <ais523> (and RAM0 is 3 years older than BF)
14:25:47 <ais523> P'' dates from 1964, though
14:26:02 <Taneb> I/D looks pretty neat
14:26:13 <Taneb> I'm going to have to check out the TC proof of it tonight
14:26:24 <ais523> it's like three star programmer but a little easier
14:26:27 <ais523> both to write in and to implement
14:26:47 <oerjan> the previous girl genius update is pretty ominous. i suspect the dupree shit is about to hit the fan.
14:26:55 <ais523> although three star programmer is a little more powerful, in that it gives you more flexibility with how your programs work once you've figured out how to write them
14:27:55 <esowiki> [[Classical CT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55693 * Iamcalledbob * (+552) Created page with "==Commands== This is an extension of [[CT]]. {class_name[function_name ...] [function_name ...] lots of other functions...} It defines a class with a lot of functions, which..."
14:30:29 <oerjan> today's update is also ominous, mind you.
14:30:57 <oerjan> (but not for a main character.)
14:31:56 <oerjan> ais523: do real british academics have nicknames like that twh
14:32:13 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55694&oldid=55183 * Iamcalledbob * (+32) /* Brevity */
14:32:46 <oerjan> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php
14:32:54 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55695&oldid=55694 * Iamcalledbob * (-32) /* Brevity */
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14:33:53 <ais523> oerjan: I rarely hear nicknames used here; thus I don't konw what they are
14:40:10 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55696&oldid=55695 * Iamcalledbob * (+185) /* Purpose */
14:42:10 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55697&oldid=55696 * Ais523 * (-3) /* Purpose */ cleanup; note that most low-level esolangs are /not/ intentionally hard to read, they just ended up that way because the concepts are so alien
14:42:43 <Taneb> The only academic I know with a nickname is Dr Chris "Crispy Bacon" Crispin-Bailey
14:43:28 <ais523> does ais523 count as a nickname?
14:43:52 <Taneb> I guess in IRC nomenclature it is
14:43:54 <oerjan> ais523: you misspelled obfuscation hth
14:44:10 <Taneb> Although do people often refer to you as Alex "ais523" Smith?
14:44:33 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55698&oldid=55697 * Ais523 * (+0) /* Obfuscation */ fix typo in header
14:44:48 <ais523> Speed Demos Archive probably would, although they'd leave the "Dr" off
14:46:23 * ais523 notes that the I/D machine compiles almost directly into Unreadable
14:47:33 <oerjan> hm right, internet nicknames would be it nowadays...
14:47:41 <ais523> hmm, esolang idea I just had: a cross between BF and Subtractpocalypse; it's basically just + < - > with bignum cells, and attempting to decrement a cell below 0 restarts the program
14:47:56 <ais523> you cannot obviously compile Subtractpocalypse into this but it's pretty close
14:49:17 <ais523> and you can almost certainly remove < from it by having a finite-length tape that wraps (in fact, that probably makes it easier to program in rather than harder)
14:50:03 <ais523> …and by merging commands to give +> and - you have a two-command language which is probably TC
14:50:38 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55699&oldid=55698 * Iamcalledbob * (+10) /* Purpose */
14:51:12 <ais523> does the current Subtractpocalypse TCness proof ever reduce two counters in the same command? if not then this /is/ TC
14:52:04 <ais523> unfortunately it does, I don't think it /has/ to, though
14:52:43 <Taneb> oerjan: I do get called "Taneb" in person sometimes
14:52:50 <Taneb> Mostly people I know from CS at uni
14:53:06 <ais523> Taneb: your nick's currently being shown in a color that's hard to read so I have to look at your comments to see who said them
14:53:23 <Taneb> ais523: I'm terribly sorry
14:53:25 <ais523> when I saw that comment, I was hoping it had been said by someone other than Taneb :-)
14:53:36 <Taneb> :D that'd be something
14:53:53 <ais523> (sorry for not typing those two comments at the same time, the first doesn't really make sense on its own, but I'm in the middle of a distro upgrade and it chose that moment to stop my keyboard working)
14:54:37 <ais523> this is an often-overlooked danger in using newline as a punctuation mark
14:59:41 <oerjan> i want to revert iamcalledbob's last edit but my intuition refuses.
15:00:05 <oerjan> or is it anxiety, whatever.
15:00:44 <oerjan> oh hm forgetting my email...
15:00:51 <ais523> I don't agree with removing minimalism altogether
15:02:09 <esowiki> [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55700&oldid=55699 * Ais523 * (-10) Undo revision 55699 by Iamcalledbob; I disagree with many of these changes, e.g. minimalism and obfuscation are quite different in nature (languages are often reduced to few commands for reasons other than making them hard to read)
15:02:22 <ais523> nor with merging it with obfuscation
15:03:36 <ais523> anyway, the distro update has finished so I'm going to reboot, hopefully the computer still works :-D
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15:12:28 <Taneb> ...we've accidentally started using the worst chat client here
15:12:37 <Taneb> Bash comments in a shared tmux session
15:16:33 <int-e> hmm, that's worse than "talk" :)
15:20:35 <Taneb> Instead of having nicks or whatever we just start with different amounts of whitespace
15:21:31 <int-e> # it scales really well.
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15:27:53 <ais523> well, that didn't go so well
15:28:10 <ais523> at least I managed to get a GUI desktop up, after about four tries
15:28:46 <ais523> although I'm running MATE because my normal desktop environment is crashing on login
15:29:03 <ais523> luckily this was already installed (I'm not sure how to connect to wifi from the terminal)
15:30:48 <ais523> the other problem is that the mouse doesn't work on the login screen for some reason and my choice of login screen implementation apparently breaks when you try to change desktop environment with the keyboard
15:31:16 <ais523> so I had to start a different one with the terminal…
15:32:13 * ais523 does an update, then will try again
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17:32:37 <HackEso> olist 1124: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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20:07:31 <esowiki> [[Losescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55701&oldid=55655 * B jonas * (+24)
20:08:52 <wob_jonas> ais523: I'd just like to note that iamcalledbob also didn't follow the instructions specifically for avoiding spambot registrations: Introduce yourself says "write a short description (one or two sentences is enough) about what brings you to this wiki".
20:09:42 <wob_jonas> Nor the part about "At the end of that description, sign your name by writing in "~~~~" (without quotes),"
20:10:06 <wob_jonas> should have banned him immediately for clearly being a spambot
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20:14:35 <esowiki> [[Losescript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55702&oldid=55701 * B jonas * (+5)
20:32:33 <wob_jonas> "<ais523> hmm, I wonder if I can argue that the I/D machine is a BF instruction minimalization? / and D doesn't look too out of place in a BF derivative / there's probably one that has it already :-P" : true. I think the \x7F command in Symbolic Brainfuck does that
20:34:48 <int-e> wob_jonas: hmm, didn't feel like a bot.
20:35:50 <int-e> wob_jonas: why would a bot use an edit message that says "I want people to see that there is another 1-instruction turing-taprit language."
20:36:40 <int-e> anyway, weird person... especially, since that move failed to do what they apparently wanted, why did they start moving other things around afterwards?
20:38:48 <esowiki> [[I/D machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55703&oldid=54537 * B jonas * (+322) can be seen as a brainfuck derivative (thanks for noticing, ais523)
20:40:00 <wob_jonas> the move didn't fail what they wanted. because of them spamming, several of us esolang wiki users are checking his edits for possible vandalism, so we noticed that yet another stupid language
20:40:48 <wob_jonas> it would be unnoticed in the noise of stupid languages on the wiki otherwise, which new users come and create
20:41:00 <wob_jonas> which is sad especially because it gets hard to find the actually interesting languages among them
20:47:09 <int-e> Meh misguided and clueless is my assessment... don't get me wrong, this may be even *more* annoying than actual spam.
20:47:55 <wob_jonas> exactly. we delete spam, but we leave all the bad esolangs up there, and the wiki gets full of that
20:47:57 <int-e> (And it can easily drift off into vandalism, hard to draw a clear line.)
20:48:11 <wob_jonas> I genuinely can't just browse the wiki to find random interesting esolangs
21:00:19 <esowiki> [[Small]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55704&oldid=55010 * Voltage2007 * (+482) Added compiler
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21:44:26 <imode> I've seen people auto-generating things like rules for string rewriting systems. is there any literature on this? converting traditional imperative algorithms to rewrite relations?
21:48:08 <imode> I know many people have created things like BASIC to brainfuck compilers.
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22:56:52 <esowiki> [[Brainpocalypse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55705 * Ais523 * (+10304) new language!
22:57:17 <esowiki> [[Brainpocalypse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55706&oldid=55705 * Ais523 * (+18) /* Standard version */ class=wikitable
22:57:59 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55707&oldid=55685 * Ais523 * (+21) /* B */ +[[Brainpocalypse]]
22:58:25 <esowiki> [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55708&oldid=55337 * Ais523 * (+20) +[[Brainpocalypse]]
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23:16:35 <imode> https://ptpb.pw/CHN2/text modeling a stack with a 3-symbol data alphabet.
23:17:06 <imode> this can probably be made shorter if I allowed just two symbols. it's pretty mechanical. I wonder if I can do head-juggling.
23:18:00 <int-e> that ::= just feeld wrong to me.
23:18:16 <imode> should be -> or something.
23:18:57 <imode> the benefit is you can have multiple stacks in tandem, doing work independently. exchanging things between instruction streams could probably happen.
23:19:34 <int-e> (especially since I've actually worked with string rewriting systems (aka semi-Thue systems))
23:20:55 <int-e> it's an actual area of theoretical computer science.
23:21:12 <imode> I'm aware, just wondered what you've dealt with.
23:21:35 <imode> they're deceptively simple.
23:21:50 <int-e> mostly confluence analysis (and mostly term rewriting systems, of which string rewriting is a special case)
23:23:01 <imode> I'd think the other way around, tbh. in the end you're performing substitution rules on trees represented as strings, which in many cases is nested parens or path-based representations.
23:23:33 <int-e> (our terms are trees, not strings)
23:23:46 <imode> change my view, because you are. :P
23:24:02 <int-e> "we" did not encompass you, necessarily :)
23:24:52 <imode> in what world are strings a special case of terms? it's the other way around lmao.
23:25:37 <int-e> in "our" world, strings are terms built exclusively from unary function symbols (and one constant for the empty string).
23:26:16 <int-e> I admit that this is a bit strange.
23:26:46 <imode> you can take both views, I guess, depending on your vantage point, as terms admit a canonical representation that's stringy.
23:26:53 <int-e> But it's much more strange to treat terms as strings, because that makes all operations on terms awkward.
23:27:03 <int-e> (to my mind, ymmv, etc)
23:28:49 <imode> dyck languages are a good fit for representing terms imho, because they admit easy pattern matching based on depth.
23:29:34 <shachaf> I'm wondering whether colorForth and ALGOL had a reasonable idea making color/bold part of the syntax.
23:29:41 <int-e> it does... it even shuts itself off for hours at a time!
23:30:35 <int-e> (which, I think, is something I should have let it do about an hour ago, so good night)
23:31:22 <int-e> (but I was too busy with extracting bits from unfair dice... big waste of time :P)
23:34:58 <imode> int-e: if you've dealt with things like string rewriting, would you say that semi-thue systems are a special case of another class of string rewrite systems?
23:36:26 <imode> my reasoning is that any system higher than thue-like introduces variables, which are an abstraction and not required.
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